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Re: PT's "Difficulties Of Becoming The LEM"

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  • prometheus_973
    Here s some confusing info on Rebazar and PT s initiations, but first a look at how/where/ when Paul studied and learned how to control the group mind. My
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 5, 2009
      Here's some confusing info
      on Rebazar and PT's initiations,
      but first a look at how/where/
      when Paul studied and learned
      how to control the "group mind."

      "My life of Several Years in
      Washington D.C., was uneventful
      in the fact that I didn't do any-
      thing great. I didn't do anything
      wonderful..."

      [Paul was just a "normal" liar
      during his transitional period.]

      "I could come and go in the
      embassies fairly well as much
      as I wanted to and got to know
      people of this nature and to be
      able to study them, and find out
      that they were people who only
      had actually, a tremendous amount
      of knowledge about How Group
      Minds Work, How National Minds
      Work in a Country, and have a
      tremendous knowledge about
      relations, Human Relations."
      [pg. 68]


      See, how Paul is studying the
      "group mind" to find ways to
      control the masses. Sounds
      like what a Black Magician
      would do!

      Next is PT's Sudar and Rebazar
      story. Notice how it seems that
      Paul's making it all up as he
      goes along. He tends to backtrack
      some, exaggerates, or gets
      details and facts wrong. Lying
      takes much more effort than
      recounting the truth. Remember,
      too, this book was transcribed
      from audio interviews done
      circa June-July, 1971).



      "Well, anyway, in about 1947,
      it was right shortly after the
      Indians nation, India, received
      their freedom from England
      and then became a nation...
      I went over to Darjeeling...
      right on the Sikkim border...
      I went up there at the time
      after being over in Allahabad,
      and there wasn't much left
      there after SUDAR SINGH HAD
      PASSED AWAY.

      But then I went there and I'd
      been told that I would find the
      ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs, I've
      got something about that in
      one of my books, I think it's
      Introduction to ECK in which
      I have it. I told about meeting
      him up in that part of the world.

      I STAYED THERE FOR QUITE
      SOME TIME WITH HIM [Rebazar],
      SIX TO SEVEN MONTHS, BEING
      TAUGHT AND LEARNING THE
      WORKS OF ECK. And then I
      was told to come back because
      then I would start into the true
      works of ECKANKAR.

      Now, HE INITIATED ME THERE.
      I had already BEEN INITIATED
      BY SUDAR SINGH, THE SAME
      AS EVERYBODY ELSE, THE
      SECOND INITIATION.

      AND I GOT THE THIRD AND
      THE FOURTH. I WENT UP
      THROUGH about THE SEVENTH
      AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.

      Then he [Rebazar?] moved
      across over into Kashmir,
      up in the Hindu Kush Mountains,
      and later, BUT NOT ON THIS
      TRIP, I FOLLOWED HIM UP THERE
      AND I GOT THE FINISH OF MY
      INITIATIONS." [pgs. 70-71]



      Thus, Twitchell is claiming, in
      this 1971 Interview, that AFTER
      he was discharged from the Navy,
      in 1947, that he "physically"
      traveled to India and stayed with
      Rebazar for "SIX to SEVEN MONTHS"
      and was given the SEVENTH
      INITIATION by him. Klemp claims
      on Eckankar.org that PT "physically"
      returned to INDIA, a second time,
      to meet Rebazar in 1951.

      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html

      However, the timeline shows
      that Twitchell was a member
      of Swami Premananda's church
      from 1950-1955, and was a
      member of Kirpal Singh's Ruhani
      Satsang (and/or was associated
      with him) from 1955-1965.

      Of course, Paul was, also, a
      member of Scientology after
      he, supposedly, received the
      7th Initiation from Rebazar
      in 1947.

      Even Klemp admits that there
      was still a connection with Kirpal
      Singh involving PT's The Tiger's
      Fang manuscript and a falling
      out with Kirpal.

      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

      Also, isn't it strange that Klemp
      mentions Kirpal's name about
      15 times and 970th LEM Sudar's
      name about 4 times in this info
      "Behind the Scenes with Paul
      Twitchell!"

      However, How could Paul have
      gotten the 7th Initiation from
      Rebazar, in India, in 1947 and
      then become an initiate of Kirpal
      Singh during the timeline of
      having written "The Tiger's Fang?"
      Kirpal returned the manuscript
      to Paul circa 1966.

      Plus, Kirpal initiated Paul in
      1955 on his first visit to the
      U.S. and Gail was initiated
      by Kirpal on his next visit
      to the U.S.! Why would Paul
      want an initiation by Kirpal,
      in 1955, if PT was a 7th
      Initiate in Eckankar in 1947
      and a 12th (finished) in 1951?

      Thus, we have another reason
      as to why Klemp and Company
      doesn't want this "historic"
      document reprinted!

      Also, why did Paul need to
      "PHYSICALLY RETURN" to India
      and climb the Hindu Kush Mountains
      to revisit Rebazar, after receiving
      the SEVENTH INITIATION (in 1947),
      in order to "finish" his initiations
      with Rebazar.

      Twit states, on page 71, about
      an experience with Rebazar (in
      1947) while sitting under a shade
      tree:

      "... when I was staying at the
      Ashram in ALLAHABAD which
      belonged to Sudar Singh...
      I'll say something here about
      Rebazar Tarzs... I THOUGHT
      that he had MANIFESTED himself
      because I just looked up and
      and there he was walking towards
      me... I FELT that he'd MANIFESTED
      himself because I had averted
      my eyes from the path which
      was directly in front of me, for
      just a matter of moments as
      anyone would do if they look
      around."

      Now, Why would Twit need to
      travel to India in his physical
      body a "second time" if Rebazar
      could "manifest" himself anywhere?

      Wasn't "Dialogues with the Master"
      dictated to Twit at night, in his
      bedroom, in the U.S., via Rebazar
      physically "manifesting" himself!

      See! It's all a bunch of lies and
      Klemp is part of it and the cover-up!

      But, then again, Klemp doesn't
      want to ruin the good thing he's
      got going on, and he certainly
      doesn't want to give up the power
      trip he's on. It's cool to have
      thousands of people bow down
      before you, to get giddy and nervous
      in your presence and thinking
      Harry's "Higher" than the "God"
      of all of the other religions on
      earth!

      Can Eckists see the irony of,
      "My God is Bigger Than Yours!"


      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Sharon and All,
      Yes, Paul does truly reveal himself
      in this book. His negative attitude
      and subversiveness, while in the
      Navy during WWII, was a real eye-
      opener! I can see why Klemp and
      Company don't want this book
      reprinted... WOW!

      After all, in June, 1971 when
      Twitch was recounting these
      earlier experiences (that were
      later placed into this book) Paul
      was the "Full" Mahanta, and
      didn't have any problem with
      nor find any fault with his
      past behaviours. He had no
      regrets about it! To Twitchell
      the Navy was a joke and he
      was going to have some sport
      with them (manipulate them)
      and take it easy while they miss-
      placed his paperwork due, in
      part, to his passive/aggressive
      attitude toward "superior officers."

      PT: "... on setting my mind on
      something, it was going to work
      exactly my way. If I got into the
      service, I wasn't going to be
      bothered with this sort of thing,
      of going out there on the front
      line and fighting. I was going to
      find myself a nice, comfortable
      berth someplace and be kept
      there."

      "I found out so many times in
      dealing with thousands of people,
      that they never knew this. And
      this is one of the Acts of Power
      that all the Dictators and everybody
      else had found, BUT I was using
      it in My way and Not using it as
      a control over a great number of
      people, EXCEPT to keep Myself
      out of positions of danger."

      "... the higher echelon, or the
      superior officers, were always
      having a rough time with me
      because I never acted in accordance
      to what they expected of their
      enlisted personnel. I could block
      them and create all sorts of
      frustrations and problems for
      them which they never knew
      was happening, or they never
      laid the CAUSE to me. I could
      get the papers fumbled up on
      myself until one time they got
      me lost! ... this sort of thing
      had created a vacuum which
      I had set out to do, to create
      the confusion, and I was 'lost'
      between battalions."

      "... sometimes I'd go downtown,
      and sometimesI'd go to the
      canteen on the base, or I'd
      sleep or do something."

      "Well, life became sort of a
      'don't care' --happy-go-lucky--
      Easy Way of living sort of thing
      and everybody was having a big
      laugh, and all that sort of thing.
      So then I decided that I had to
      be an officer..."

      "I knew that if anybody was Never
      physically fit for sea duty, that
      was me, because Psychologically
      I didn't want to get shot at. So
      I set the wheels in motion Behind
      The Scenes and the first thing
      I did, I went over to see the man
      who swore in new officers... which
      should have been the last thing
      on the list of doing. So he swore
      me in and there was nothing that
      they could do about it because
      I flunked my physical examination;
      I got out of most of them, but I
      flunked what I did take and made
      them awfully mad, but they says,
      'I don't know what to do.' ... And
      instead of going to sea, they started
      me in a training school..."

      "And all of this thing was in motion
      working for me, this Behind The Scene
      thing that I was talking about that
      I had learned to control my own
      destiny." [pgs. 52-57]

      Thus, we can see how a ConMan
      like Twit thinks and behaves even
      during wartime. It's all about him
      and having an angle. And, is it a
      coincidence that Twit mentions
      the term "Behind the Scenes" twice
      and that Klemp has a section on
      Eckankar.org that is titled "Behind
      the Scenes" with Paul Twitchell.

      BTW- Here are excerpts from the
      MR. ECK story (pgs. 94-96):

      "... I was on a parking lot getting
      ready to pull out, when some gentleman,
      long, lanky, looked like he had been
      dried up like a bean pole and a little
      hat on his head, rushed over and
      viewed my license plate which had
      nothing but 'ECK' on it; that is all,
      no numbers or anything. And he says,
      'Are you Mr. ECK?' And I very cautiously
      answered him, 'Why, yes, of course.'
      Which meaning, that of course as the
      MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master,
      I'm Mr. ECK, yes. He says, 'Y'know,
      I married... or rather my wife's maiden
      name was ECK, Amy ECK.' I says, 'Well,
      isn't that wonderful!' He says, 'Yes,
      it is.'

      [So, since the Mahanta is the ECK
      Paul didn't really lie to this guy.
      See how Twitchell rationalizes
      and makes it all up as he goes
      along. BTW -I shortened the
      dialogue because Paul goes on
      and on.]


      "... He just went away in a very
      blurred manner, his mind was only
      thinking of the communication and
      the warm relationship that he had
      suddenly struck up with this stranger
      here who was actually in a way, kidding
      him...."

      "Well, this is one of the funny things
      about the Astral Plane and the Physical
      Plane because the Astral Plane will do
      a lot of this in the sense of Not, it's
      Not a Deceit or anything BUT it is arousing
      the emotions and the emotions overcome
      common sense on the intellectual side
      and we don't have any answer to give
      when somebody makes us recall an
      incident as what would be in this,
      projecting ourselves in the future to
      say what we would think of it."

      PT's comments in this book
      show the foundations of
      deceit behind Eckankar.

      I had a message that we
      need to 'let go and move
      on.' Well, I will when Eckists
      do! When those I helped to
      bring into the EK org. recognize
      the lies, quit, and move on
      then I will too!


      Prometheus


      brighttigress wrote:

      [Digest Number 1527]


      Good one, Prometheus!

      "Diff" is a great book because it
      reveals a lot about Twitch, in his
      own words. I really do think that
      subconsciously, Twitch wanted
      people to see that ekult was just
      one big scam, sort of a practical
      joke, and he wanted to be recognized
      for his criminal genius.

      I always thought his claims about
      the number of books he'd read were
      a gross exaggeration. It's humanly
      impossible. And his claims that he
      could "read" a book by sleeping on it -
      well, Edgar Cayce could do that, and
      Twitch stole the idea. Just like he
      referred to Cayce when he was caught
      giving the same expensive "eck-vidya"
      readings to the same people, and threw
      a bit of a Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention
      to the man behind the curtain" hissy-fit
      and told people he had "masterly" reasons
      for the duplicate readings that lowbies
      couldn't understand - and he whined
      that surely Cayce had made some mistakes
      in his "readings", too.

      I forget where Twitch wrote that he was
      going to rewrite history, but I remember
      posting the quote a long time ago. And,
      is it in "Diff" where Twitch writes about
      running into a derelict-type one night,
      who was looking for "Mr. Eck", and had
      that lightbulb moment and decided that
      *he* would be "Mr. Eck"?

      And the one where he's walking on the
      beach feeling sorry for himself and looking
      at his failed life....moaning & groaning
      "why me"....when aha, he realizes it's
      because he's been in training to become
      Master of the Universe!!

      Puh-leeze!!!

      If you read Twitch's own thoughts & words,
      and delete all the purloined "spiritual" stuff,
      he truly reveals himself.

      Hugs,

      Sharon

      Prometheus wrote:
      These quotes are from "Difficulties
      Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."

      Here's a 1971 comment from PT
      from page 28:

      "I knew that I myself was not the
      same as that child that was next
      to me. I knew that I was superior
      in my mentality, I knew that I was
      superior to the teacher in all my
      knowledge, in all my understanding."

      Here's what appeared earlier in
      the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic
      World article (page 244):

      "Paul does not appear to like the
      intellectual person. He says they
      are all the same, making elaborate
      little plans. They give fussy attention
      to small perfections and when something
      goes wrong because of their inborn
      blindness, they scream frantically
      for help from someone else to act
      in their behalf--to do something
      for them."

      Thus, it seems we have another PT
      contradiction or a self-loathing!

      BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the
      "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,
      ninth edition" is Paul (the original
      Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp
      via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof
      that Klemp Would Not have been
      Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!

      Here's more of what Paul has to say
      about his intellect and how to "read"
      books (pg. 30):

      "Anyway, this was one of the things
      I'm trying to show you that where
      I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,
      over these other people, and I got
      it in the way that I told you one time
      from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES
      READING THEM and sometimes it
      just came natural to me... This
      was a part of that which we call the
      mastership or the training of the
      ECK mastership."

      More on what Paul has to say about
      reading (pg. 98):

      "It is said now that a reader who is
      a good reader, who enjoys reading,
      can read 7,000 books a year normally.
      I have proven this out myself because
      when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT
      35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT
      I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD
      FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000
      BOOKS of every subject you can know
      which built me a background for a
      certain bit of the work I have today...
      when I was in Washington, D.C. for
      several years, I READ about 15,000
      books in the Congressional Library...
      in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000
      or something like that when I was
      there for one year in 1946."

      Well, as we can see Paul is Full of
      B.S. He sounds like the ConMan
      that he was and shows us that at
      the most he either "skimmed" these
      35,000 books, or is lying about
      this too! But, in any case he does
      show us how he created the
      "background" for Eckankar as
      "a certain bit of the work I have
      today."

      Here's more PT comments (1971)
      that tend to contradict the use of
      skim-reading and the sleeping on
      books for "chelas" with regard to
      The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):

      "They lack a good understanding
      as to what is taking place as they
      study these. Often they become
      entangled in trying to figure out
      a syntax, notice a typographical
      error, or READ QUICKLY FOR
      INFORMATION. They tie themselves
      up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,
      and other sorts of opinions and
      SOME READ QUICKLY and say,
      'There is nothing new in that.'

      This is nothing new because EKists,
      still, tend to fill-in the blanks with
      their imaginations when the info
      comes up short (too simple), is
      redundant, lacks details, and seems
      illogical (unbelievable, untrue).

      "The Second Factor is that the
      student who is in A HURRY FOR
      INFORMATION and engages in
      SPEED READING or JUMPS TO
      CONCLUSIONS on the basis of
      a few paragraphs HASTILY
      SCAMMED, misses the most
      important benefits of all."

      It's no wonder that Eckists
      still get confused with the
      "do as I say, not as I do"
      attitude and rules that all
      religious leaders use!

      BTW- What are "the most
      important benefits of all,"
      for the chela, that PT is
      mentioning in this last
      sentence? Aren't the Higher
      EK Initiations the most
      important benefits of all!

      Prometheus

      HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Etznab and All,
      Or, we could look at "The" living
      "saviour" origin as well. I don't
      know! However, PT realized that
      people needed a living idol to adore
      and had this Mystic World article
      written in his behalf:

      "But few ever connect him up with
      being a holy man, the MAHANTA,
      the Living ECK Master. There is a
      need of the people to believe in
      the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul
      Twitchell knows this and acts out
      the part." [April-May-June 1971,
      Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
      pg. 250]

      However, in order to become a
      "Saviour" Paul had to have had
      a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The
      following comes from pages 251-
      253 of Difficulties of Becoming
      the Living ECK Master:

      "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...
      Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and
      Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss
      the birth of the coming Avatar
      for the Twentieth Century,
      Peddar Zaskq. Born in the
      Caucasian mountains during
      the seventeenth century...
      Given several years in the art
      of silence and Darkness he gained
      enlightenment in preparation
      for his return to the Twentieth
      Century. [HK should take note
      of this next statement] When
      the time came for his demise,
      he passed away still looking
      the same youthful appearance
      yet beyond the normal age of
      man....

      This time Peddar Zaskq was
      born on a Mississippi River
      packet enroute to New Orleans.
      The miraculous birth took place
      just below the city of Natchez,
      Mississippi just below a stock
      farm (manger)... There appeared
      a Blue Carnation in a vase on
      a night table by THE mother's
      bed... It was immediately
      arranged for him to be given
      a home in which to be raised.
      His foster parents raised him
      in a small southern river town
      [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted
      their name and became known
      as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]


      We, also, have Twit saying this
      as an excuse for his lies and self-
      promotion [pg. 126]:

      "So therefore we got to be, to
      place ourselves in the mainstream,
      which I hope I do and I have to say,
      unless I make myself a Historical
      Figure, the struggle of ECK for
      survival is useless. And the question
      of that comes up, well, why? Why
      do you make such a statement as
      that? Every man who sets out to
      do something in this world, unless
      he made himself a Historical Figure,
      then he never again is remembered
      except by a few when he passes."


      PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is
      on page 254 and comes from
      an article in The Mystic World
      July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:

      "The rest of his story is told in
      fragments of his first visit to
      Paris to be with his stepsister,
      who was in training to be an
      artist. It was here that he first
      met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,
      and followed him to India with
      his stepsister to study ECK..."

      More about "Paris" (Kentucky)
      from pages 38-40:

      "Later I would be able to go to
      Paris to see my sister who was
      studying art at one of the art
      studios Over There. She was
      under an instructor who had
      studied under Degas... who was
      a very famous portrait painter
      of the opera and the ballet during
      his day in PARIS."

      Thus, we can clearly see that Twit
      was lying and trying to deceive us
      into thinking this was Paris, France
      (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's
      including Degas in the story.

      "I suppose that that's where she
      got her ability to paint figures
      because she had COPIED Degas
      time and time again... Well, in
      living in Paris, I was quite happy
      at the time when I was OVER there
      with my SISTER, my stepsister,
      Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]

      "...we took advantage of this freedom,
      because for some reason the Europeans
      seemed to have an affection for young
      people, more than they had in the
      western countries, particularly at that
      time." [Here, PT has without a doubt
      connected-the-dots for us by saying
      that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]

      "We were just a few block away from
      Montmartre, where all the famous
      artists were living... Edgar Degas was
      the last that I knew of, Katie was very
      close to him because she was studying
      under one of his students." [Was Degas
      even living in this year? What a liar!]

      "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
      leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
      Paris we decided that we would go back
      to his little ashram, which was five miles
      above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
      Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
      (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

      "After I had left India, came home, I was
      then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
      do some work in order to finish my degree."
      [page 48]

      Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as
      Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16
      this was 1924. However, Klemp states
      on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)
      Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who
      in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and
      "twisting facts" and that he'd never
      traveled outside of the United States
      at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,
      as the M/LEM, lying about these events
      in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,
      France prior to 1965 and never traveled
      to India (from Paris) with his sister to
      meet Sudar Singh at age 16.

      Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:

      "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first
      set out in my first work, I'm having to go
      back and redo these things and try to
      correct them." [page 135]


      prometheus


      etznab wrote:

      Prometheus & All,

      Where and when do you suppose the idea
      of "The" Living Master first occurred in the
      records of history?

      Anybody want to hazard a guess about the
      time frame?

      How about the country?

      Etznab

      Hello Z and All,
      I agree that there is only One link
      up with the Divine. IMO it's not
      through a manmade religion or via
      their manmade initiations. It's an
      on-going series of private, personal,
      and subjective events/experiences
      with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
      group think/consciousness, although,
      we all have commonalities.

      No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
      any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
      out real/true initiations (denoting levels
      of spiritual consciousness) to others
      by saying this or that person deserves
      one while another doesn't.

      However, one has to understand how
      religion works. It's very competitive.
      It's almost like buying an insurance
      policy. The one that has the best
      word of mouth reputation via happy
      customers and advertises more, while
      having the best value and coverage
      for the cost, usually does well until
      it defaults due to too many claims
      that it can't cover. After a default
      or a hesitation on coverage of their
      promises (policy) the company
      (religion) can come across as an
      unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
      people will then start to shop
      around. However, if you're Self-
      insured you don't need to shop
      around...


      Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
      saying that Sat Nam will take over
      Soul's guidance upon receiving the
      5th initiation.

      In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
      1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
      is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
      EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
      "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
      the Power, the Light, flowing down
      and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
      GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."
      [pg. 183]

      If one is to take this literally it means
      that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
      Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
      many other religions acknowledge
      Sat Nam and have written of this
      entity in ancient text while PT, on
      the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
      competitor in 1969.

      See, once again we can see how
      religions compete with one another
      for members. Eckists need to be
      willing to stand back and take a
      detached look.

      As I said before... buying into a
      religion is like buying insurance...
      just don't trust that you can collect
      on their promises (in this lifetime)
      and read the exclusions (fine print).
      However, one should remember
      that in the Free World one doesn't
      need to buy/have a religion. It's
      not the law!

      Prometheus


      zephrendhun wrote:

      Well said Promethius!

      But then again as I have said,
      there really is only one link up
      or one true initiation.

      IMO, all other initiations are
      EK ankar's way of maintaining
      'customer base'.

      The God Realized state can only
      be achieved through diligence
      by the chela to establish a one on
      one relationship with Divine Source.

      Strange though, I seem to remember
      reading somewhere in the works
      of ECK that after the chela reaches
      the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
      takes over looking after the chela
      and his journey into God Consciousness.
      I may be wrong, but I do believe
      I saw this somewhere in Paul's
      writings.

      Fashji

      prometheus wrote:

      Klemp doesn't deliver on any
      real promises does he? Why
      hasn't Klemp speeded up the
      ECK initiations so that the
      promise of God-Realization
      in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?

      Why were the EK initiations
      "slowed down" in the first
      place? Wasn't HK claiming
      the initiations were "slowed
      down" because of Darwin's
      past involvement with promoting
      500 EKists to the 5th before
      he was excommunicated? So,
      what's been the excuse since
      Klemp guided them to become
      real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
      these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
      have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
      or 8th initiations! Klemp has
      been using this as an excuse
      Not to promote for all of these
      years! This is subterfuge!

      Where's the Master's promise
      of "protection" to chelas too?
      Instead, the excuse is that it's
      a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
      or Karma and maybe a minor
      "test" for chelas (lower initiates).

      Here's a quote from HK's
      Eckankar Lexicon:

      "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
      of GOD-REALIZATION where
      Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
      the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
      is of a thousand violins; the
      word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
      SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
      the first realm created that
      IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
      and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
      [page. 91]

      Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
      "Entities" "Generally Reach
      and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
      via the 8th Initiation.

      BTW- Who are these "Beings"
      and "Entities" that the 8th
      Plane is "Available To?"

      Notice that HK states that
      Soul "Generally Reaches" the
      "8th Plane." Does that include
      all Souls, or just those paying
      that Annual ECKankar Membership
      Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
      it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
      doesn't require an EK Membership
      I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
      for the public too. One has to
      assume that HK is speaking "in
      general" terms and that this includes
      all Souls, Beings, and Entities
      whoever or whatever they are!

      Yes, who are these "Beings" and
      "Entities" that Klemp is including?

      However, since ECKists are special
      since they have a "Mahanta" why is
      it that they aren't growing by leaps
      and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
      Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
      what? IMO it's another Catch-22
      "Test!"

      Really! Let's think about it.
      Why hasn't Klemp handed
      out more 8th Initiations? By
      my guesstimate there should
      be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
      by now!

      I know that this figure sounds
      inflated and even impossible!
      Most Eckists would be shocked
      to see such a high number and
      would immediately discount and
      deny that such a high number
      would be possible. Maybe some
      H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
      or just say Haw! But, think about
      it for awhile. Let it sink in and
      consider the possibility. Hasn't
      the Consciousness of ECKists,
      and Eckankar as a group, expanded
      or "evolved" to the point where
      there should be 3,000 8th Plane
      Initiates?

      Reread the above definition for
      HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
      Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
      Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
      Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
      this:

      "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
      God-Realization where Soul
      learns God-knowledge, the
      eighth plane." [pg. 62]

      Thus Klemp added the following
      to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
      in his 1998 EK Lexicon:

      "The sound is of a thousand
      violins; the word is Aluk.
      HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
      REACHES; the first realm created
      that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
      SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

      Anyway, isn't one of the big
      promises of Eckankar that of
      reaching Spiritual Freedom and
      Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
      via the ECK Initiations that are
      seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
      Consciousness? Sure it is!

      So, where are all of those 8th
      Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
      and time is running out for him
      and others. He, or someone, needs
      to make restitution and keep those
      promises, at least, with the 8th
      Initiation which equates to God-
      Realization! Even if Klemp can't
      protect the health and well being
      of his, DG's and PT's initiates
      he could at least promote and
      give ECKists the 8th Initiation.

      If it's too much for Klemp (the
      LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
      he can designate some of the
      responsibility to Rebazar and
      the other EK Masters. Therefore,
      there really shouldn't be any more
      delays or excuses. Promote them
      now!

      Prometheus
      p.s. It's really too bad that there
      can't be an honest and open discussion
      about this. ECKists are instructed
      to "surrender" and "serve" with
      detachment and are to keep "silent"
      and not to "second guess" the LEM/
      Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
      have always maintained control
      over their followers? What does
      Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
      that he fears and this is why HK
      relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
      with their positions of authority,
      to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.

      ******
      Some European Countries
      Protect Their Citizens From
      the Cults of ECKankar and
      Scientology.

      I saw where the French office
      of the Church of Scientology
      sect got into trouble for fraud.

      Is it possible that Eckankar
      could be next? Apparently
      Eckankar and Scientology
      are listed as "sects/cults"
      in many European countries
      (France, Belgium, Germany,
      etc.). These sects, like Scientology
      and Eckankar, don't have the
      legal status of main stream
      religions, nor do they have
      the same benefits under their
      laws.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html


      The question is:

      What could be regarded as fraud?

      Would the Annual EK Membership
      Donation/Fee that promises
      enlightenment (God-Realization),
      via the 8th initiation for most
      Eckists in this lifetime, as well
      as, the "Protections" of the Master
      for all chelas (that never happens)
      be considered as Fraud? Klemp
      slowed these initiations down
      due to Darwin's involvement,
      but that's been a long time ago!

      Look at all of the ECKists
      who have died of or have
      contracted Cancer and other
      diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
      Master) promises them
      "Protection!"

      And, look at HK's "promises"
      to chelas and H.I.s involving
      God-Realization in this lifetime
      and yet he doesn't offer enough
      Higher Initiations to fullfil his
      promises! And, maintaining
      one's initiations is directly tied
      into the Annual EK Membership
      Donation Fee.

      Thus, the taking of money by
      Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
      Discourses and EK Memberships
      and the making of False Promises
      to chelas for this present lifetime
      constitutes Fraud even though
      this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
      religions to make false promises.
      However, it is unethical and
      amoral at the very least! It does
      give "hope" to the disillusioned,
      disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
      but isn't Eckankar supposed to
      be the best and highest path to
      help these Souls on earth, as well
      as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
      "promises" of the Master a reality
      in the physical instead of always
      being a KAL test or Karma?

      However, under most European
      Laws would this failure to deliver
      be considered to be fraudulent
      enough to be classified as a crime
      against the public? It seems so!

      It could be that under the laws
      of certain European countries that
      Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
      be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
      or former Eckist, decided to be
      refunded the sums of their Annual
      EK Membership Donation Fees,
      and Eckankar denied the refunds.

      Maybe some former or current
      German, French, and Belgium
      Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
      for a refund for the sum of their
      EK Memberships over the years!


      Will Eckankar follow Scientology?

      ******

      Here's an excerpt of the definition
      of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
      (1991):

      "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
      of truth for the purpose of inducing
      another in reliance upon it to part
      with some valuable thing belonging
      to him or to surrender a legal right...

      [A Required/Requested Annual
      Membership Donation $$$$$$]

      Elements of a cause of action for
      'fraud' include false representation
      of a present or past fact made by
      the defendant, action in reliance
      thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
      resulting to plaintiff from such
      misrepresentation... As distinguished
      from negligence, it is always
      positive, intentional. It comprises
      all acts, omissions, and concealments
      involving a breach of a legal or
      equitable duty and resulting in
      damage to another. And includes
      anything calculated to deceive,
      whether it be a single act or
      combination of circumstances...
      Fraud, as applied to contracts,
      is the cause of an error bearing
      on a material part of the contract,
      created or contained by artifice,
      with design to obtain some unjust
      advantage to one party, or to cause
      an inconvenience or loss to the other."


      Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
      fraud of misrepresentation since
      it doesn't deliver on the Higher
      Initiations ["omissions"] required
      to attain God-Realization! [Refer
      to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
      2, Chapter 12.]

      Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
      "contract" with his followers, but
      he only makes empty promises
      and does not fulfill his obligations,
      and yet he's ready and willing to take
      Eckists' hard earned money!

      And, let's look at Eckankar's
      "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
      plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
      to cover-up these facts.

      Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
      sects, and cults (unless proven to be
      guilty of higher crimes) basically have
      carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
      make false promises for money.

      What a scam! Eckists have been paying
      for their initiations for years but have
      been locked-out of those required for
      God-Realization!

      It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
      lead. However, in Belgium, France and
      Germany these cults and sects don't
      have the same protection as "religions"
      do. This is what the U.S. should have
      done 50 years ago!

      Prometheus
    • etznab@aol.com
      Do you have a page number where it mentions Sudar Singh had passed away by 1947? Etznab ... From: prometheus_973 To:
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 6, 2009
        Do you have a page number where it mentions
        Sudar Singh had passed away by 1947?

        Etznab

        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: PT's "Difficulties Of
        Becoming The LEM"

         










        Here's some confusing info

        on Rebazar and PT's initiations,

        but first a look at how/where/

        when Paul studied and learned

        how to control the "group mind."



        "My life of Several Years in

        Washington D.C., was uneventful

        in the fact that I didn't do any-

        thing great. I didn't do anything

        wonderful..."



        [Paul was just a "normal" liar

        during his transitional period.]



        "I could come and go in the

        embassies fairly well as much

        as I wanted to and got to know

        people of this nature and to be

        able to study them, and find out

        that they were people who only

        had actually, a tremendous amount

        of knowledge about How Group

        Minds Work, How National Minds

        Work in a Country, and have a

        tremendous knowledge about

        relations, Human Relations."

        [pg. 68]



        See, how Paul is studying the

        "group mind" to find ways to

        control the masses. Sounds

        like what a Black Magician

        would do!



        Next is PT's Sudar and Rebazar

        story. Notice how it seems that

        Paul's making it all up as he

        goes along. He tends to backtrack

        some, exaggerates, or gets

        details and facts wrong. Lying

        takes much more effort than

        recounting the truth. Remember,

        too, this book was transcribed

        from audio interviews done

        circa June-July, 1971).



        "Well, anyway, in about 1947,

        it was right shortly after the

        Indians nation, India, received

        their freedom from England

        and then became a nation...

        I went over to Darjeeling...

        right on the Sikkim border...

        I went up there at the time

        after being over in Allahabad,

        and there wasn't much left

        there after SUDAR SINGH HAD

        PASSED AWAY.



        But then I went there and I'd

        been told that I would find the

        ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs, I've

        got something about that in

        one of my books, I think it's

        Introduction to ECK in which

        I have it. I told about meeting

        him up in that part of the world.



        I STAYED THERE FOR QUITE

        SOME TIME WITH HIM [Rebazar],

        SIX TO SEVEN MONTHS, BEING

        TAUGHT AND LEARNING THE

        WORKS OF ECK. And then I

        was told to come back because

        then I would start into the true

        works of ECKANKAR.



        Now, HE INITIATED ME THERE.

        I had already BEEN INITIATED

        BY SUDAR SINGH, THE SAME

        AS EVERYBODY ELSE, THE

        SECOND INITIATION.



        AND I GOT THE THIRD AND

        THE FOURTH. I WENT UP

        THROUGH about THE SEVENTH

        AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.



        Then he [Rebazar?] moved

        across over into Kashmir,

        up in the Hindu Kush Mountains,

        and later, BUT NOT ON THIS

        TRIP, I FOLLOWED HIM UP THERE

        AND I GOT THE FINISH OF MY

        INITIATIONS." [pgs. 70-71]



        Thus, Twitchell is claiming, in

        this 1971 Interview, that AFTER

        he was discharged from the Navy,

        in 1947, that he "physically"

        traveled to India and stayed with

        Rebazar for "SIX to SEVEN MONTHS"

        and was given the SEVENTH

        INITIATION by him. Klemp claims

        on Eckankar.org that PT "physically"

        returned to INDIA, a second time,

        to meet Rebazar in 1951.



        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html



        However, the timeline shows

        that Twitchell was a member

        of Swami Premananda's church

        from 1950-1955, and was a

        member of Kirpal Singh's Ruhani

        Satsang (and/or was associated

        with him) from 1955-1965.



        Of course, Paul was, also, a

        member of Scientology after

        he, supposedly, received the

        7th Initiation from Rebazar

        in 1947.



        Even Klemp admits that there

        was still a connection with Kirpal

        Singh involving PT's The Tiger's

        Fang manuscript and a falling

        out with Kirpal.



        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html



        Also, isn't it strange that Klemp

        mentions Kirpal's name about

        15 times and 970th LEM Sudar's

        name about 4 times in this info

        "Behind the Scenes with Paul

        Twitchell!"



        However, How could Paul have

        gotten the 7th Initiation from

        Rebazar, in India, in 1947 and

        then become an initiate of Kirpal

        Singh during the timeline of

        having written "The Tiger's Fang?"

        Kirpal returned the manuscript

        to Paul circa 1966.



        Plus, Kirpal initiated Paul in

        1955 on his first visit to the

        U.S. and Gail was initiated

        by Kirpal on his next visit

        to the U.S.! Why would Paul

        want an initiation by Kirpal,

        in 1955, if PT was a 7th

        Initiate in Eckankar in 1947

        and a 12th (finished) in 1951?



        Thus, we have another reason

        as to why Klemp and Company

        doesn't want this "historic"

        document reprinted!



        Also, why did Paul need to

        "PHYSICALLY RETURN" to India

        and climb the Hindu Kush Mountains

        to revisit Rebazar, after receiving

        the SEVENTH INITIATION (in 1947),

        in order to "finish" his initiations

        with Rebazar.



        Twit states, on page 71, about

        an experience with Rebazar (in

        1947) while sitting under a shade

        tree:



        "... when I was staying at the

        Ashram in ALLAHABAD which

        belonged to Sudar Singh...

        I'll say something here about

        Rebazar Tarzs... I THOUGHT

        that he had MANIFESTED himself

        because I just looked up and

        and there he was walking towards

        me... I FELT that he'd MANIFESTED

        himself because I had averted

        my eyes from the path which

        was directly in front of me, for

        just a matter of moments as

        anyone would do if they look

        around."



        Now, Why would Twit need to

        travel to India in his physical

        body a "second time" if Rebazar

        could "manifest" himself anywhere?



        Wasn't "Dialogues with the Master"

        dictated to Twit at night, in his

        bedroom, in the U.S., via Rebazar

        physically "manifesting" himself!



        See! It's all a bunch of lies and

        Klemp is part of it and the cover-up!



        But, then again, Klemp doesn't

        want to ruin the good thing he's

        got going on, and he certainly

        doesn't want to give up the power

        trip he's on. It's cool to have

        thousands of people bow down

        before you, to get giddy and nervous

        in your presence and thinking

        Harry's "Higher" than the "God"

        of all of the other religions on

        earth!



        Can Eckists see the irony of,

        "My God is Bigger Than Yours!"



        prometheus wrote:



        Hello Sharon and All,

        Yes, Paul does truly reveal himself

        in this book. His negative attitude

        and subversiveness, while in the

        Navy during WWII, was a real eye-

        opener! I can see why Klemp and

        Company don't want this book

        reprinted... WOW!



        After all, in June, 1971 when

        Twitch was recounting these

        earlier experiences (that were

        later placed into this book) Paul

        was the "Full" Mahanta, and

        didn't have any problem with

        nor find any fault with his

        past behaviours. He had no

        regrets about it! To Twitchell

        the Navy was a joke and he

        was going to have some sport

        with them (manipulate them)

        and take it easy while they miss-

        placed his paperwork due, in

        part, to his passive/aggressive

        attitude toward "superior officers."



        PT: "... on setting my mind on

        something, it was going to work

        exactly my way. If I got into the

        service, I wasn't going to be

        bothered with this sort of thing,

        of going out there on the front

        line and fighting. I was going to

        find myself a nice, comfortable

        berth someplace and be kept

        there."



        "I found out so many times in

        dealing with thousands of people,

        that they never knew this. And

        this is one of the Acts of Power

        that all the Dictators and everybody

        else had found, BUT I was using

        it in My way and Not using it as

        a control over a great number of

        people, EXCEPT to keep Myself

        out of positions of danger."



        "... the higher echelon, or the

        superior officers, were always

        having a rough time with me

        because I never acted in accordance

        to what they expected of their

        enlisted personnel. I could block

        them and create all sorts of

        frustrations and problems for

        them which they never knew

        was happening, or they never

        laid the CAUSE to me. I could

        get the papers fumbled up on

        myself until one time they got

        me lost! ... this sort of thing

        had created a vacuum which

        I had set out to do, to create

        the confusion, and I was 'lost'

        between battalions."



        "... sometimes I'd go downtown,

        and sometimesI'd go to the

        canteen on the base, or I'd

        sleep or do something."



        "Well, life became sort of a

        'don't care' --happy-go-lucky--

        Easy Way of living sort of thing

        and everybody was having a big

        laugh, and all that sort of thing.

        So then I decided that I had to

        be an officer..."



        "I knew that if anybody was Never

        physically fit for sea duty, that

        was me, because Psychologically

        I didn't want to get shot at. So

        I set the wheels in motion Behind

        The Scenes and the first thing

        I did, I went over to see the man

        who swore in new officers... which

        should have been the last thing

        on the list of doing. So he swore

        me in and there was nothing that

        they could do about it because

        I flunked my physical examination;

        I got out of most of them, but I

        flunked what I did take and made

        them awfully mad, but they says,

        'I don't know what to do.' ... And

        instead of going to sea, they started

        me in a training school..."



        "And all of this thing was in motion

        working for me, this Behind The Scene

        thing that I was talking about that

        I had learned to control my own

        destiny." [pgs. 52-57]



        Thus, we can see how a ConMan

        like Twit thinks and behaves even

        during wartime. It's all about him

        and having an angle. And, is it a

        coincidence that Twit mentions

        the term "Behind the Scenes" twice

        and that Klemp has a section on

        Eckankar.org that is titled "Behind

        the Scenes" with Paul Twitchell.



        BTW- Here are excerpts from the

        MR. ECK story (pgs. 94-96):



        "... I was on a parking lot getting

        ready to pull out, when some gentleman,

        long, lanky, looked like he had been

        dried up like a bean pole and a little

        hat on his head, rushed over and

        viewed my license plate which had

        nothing but 'ECK' on it; that is all,

        no numbers or anything. And he says,

        'Are you Mr. ECK?' And I very cautiously

        answered him, 'Why, yes, of course.'

        Which meaning, that of course as the

        MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master,

        I'm Mr. ECK, yes. He says, 'Y'know,

        I married... or rather my wife's maiden

        name was ECK, Amy ECK.' I says, 'Well,

        isn't that wonderful!' He says, 'Yes,

        it is.'



        [So, since the Mahanta is the ECK

        Paul didn't really lie to this guy.

        See how Twitchell rationalizes

        and makes it all up as he goes

        along. BTW -I shortened the

        dialogue because Paul goes on

        and on.]



        "... He just went away in a very

        blurred manner, his mind was only

        thinking of the communication and

        the warm relationship that he had

        suddenly struck up with this stranger

        here who was actually in a way, kidding

        him...."



        "Well, this is one of the funny things

        about the Astral Plane and the Physical

        Plane because the Astral Plane will do

        a lot of this in the sense of Not, it's

        Not a Deceit or anything BUT it is arousing

        the emotions and the emotions overcome

        common sense on the intellectual side

        and we don't have any answer to give

        when somebody makes us recall an

        incident as what would be in this,

        projecting ourselves in the future to

        say what we would think of it."



        PT's comments in this book

        show the foundations of

        deceit behind Eckankar.



        I had a message that we

        need to 'let go and move

        on.' Well, I will when Eckists

        do! When those I helped to

        bring into the EK org. recognize

        the lies, quit, and move on

        then I will too!



        Prometheus



        brighttigress wrote:



        [Digest Number 1527]



        Good one, Prometheus!



        "Diff" is a great book because it

        reveals a lot about Twitch, in his

        own words. I really do think that

        subconsciously, Twitch wanted

        people to see that ekult was just

        one big scam, sort of a practical

        joke, and he wanted to be recognized

        for his criminal genius.



        I always thought his claims about

        the number of books he'd read were

        a gross exaggeration. It's humanly

        impossible. And his claims that he

        could "read" a book by sleeping on it -

        well, Edgar Cayce could do that, and

        Twitch stole the idea. Just like he

        referred to Cayce when he was caught

        giving the same expensive "eck-vidya"

        readings to the same people, and threw

        a bit of a Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention

        to the man behind the curtain" hissy-fit

        and told people he had "masterly" reasons

        for the duplicate readings that lowbies

        couldn't understand - and he whined

        that surely Cayce had made some mistakes

        in his "readings", too.



        I forget where Twitch wrote that he was

        going to rewrite history, but I remember

        posting the quote a long time ago. And,

        is it in "Diff" where Twitch writes about

        running into a derelict-type one night,

        who was looking for "Mr. Eck", and had

        that lightbulb moment and decided that

        *he* would be "Mr. Eck"?



        And the one where he's walking on the

        beach feeling sorry for himself and looking

        at his failed life....moaning & groaning

        "why me"....when aha, he realizes it's

        because he's been in training to become

        Master of the Universe!!



        Puh-leeze!!!



        If you read Twitch's own thoughts & words,

        and delete all the purloined "spiritual" stuff,

        he truly reveals himself.



        Hugs,



        Sharon



        Prometheus wrote:

        These quotes are from "Difficulties

        Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."



        Here's a 1971 comment from PT

        from page 28:



        "I knew that I myself was not the

        same as that child that was next

        to me. I knew that I was superior

        in my mentality, I knew that I was

        superior to the teacher in all my

        knowledge, in all my understanding."



        Here's what appeared earlier in

        the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic

        World article (page 244):



        "Paul does not appear to like the

        intellectual person. He says they

        are all the same, making elaborate

        little plans. They give fussy attention

        to small perfections and when something

        goes wrong because of their inborn

        blindness, they scream frantically

        for help from someone else to act

        in their behalf--to do something

        for them."



        Thus, it seems we have another PT

        contradiction or a self-loathing!



        BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the

        "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,

        ninth edition" is Paul (the original

        Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp

        via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof

        that Klemp Would Not have been

        Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!



        Here's more of what Paul has to say

        about his intellect and how to "read"

        books (pg. 30):



        "Anyway, this was one of the things

        I'm trying to show you that where

        I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,

        over these other people, and I got

        it in the way that I told you one time

        from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES

        READING THEM and sometimes it

        just came natural to me... This

        was a part of that which we call the

        mastership or the training of the

        ECK mastership."



        More on what Paul has to say about

        reading (pg. 98):



        "It is said now that a reader who is

        a good reader, who enjoys reading,

        can read 7,000 books a year normally.

        I have proven this out myself because

        when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT

        35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT

        I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD

        FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000

        BOOKS of every subject you can know

        which built me a background for a

        certain bit of the work I have today...

        when I was in Washington, D.C. for

        several years, I READ about 15,000

        books in the Congressional Library...

        in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000

        or something like that when I was

        there for one year in 1946."



        Well, as we can see Paul is Full of

        B.S. He sounds like the ConMan

        that he was and shows us that at

        the most he either "skimmed" these

        35,000 books, or is lying about

        this too! But, in any case he does

        show us how he created the

        "background" for Eckankar as

        "a certain bit of the work I have

        today."



        Here's more PT comments (1971)

        that tend to contradict the use of

        skim-reading and the sleeping on

        books for "chelas" with regard to

        The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):



        "They lack a good understanding

        as to what is taking place as they

        study these. Often they become

        entangled in trying to figure out

        a syntax, notice a typographical

        error, or READ QUICKLY FOR

        INFORMATION. They tie themselves

        up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,

        and other sorts of opinions and

        SOME READ QUICKLY and say,

        'There is nothing new in that.'



        This is nothing new because EKists,

        still, tend to fill-in the blanks with

        their imaginations when the info

        comes up short (too simple), is

        redundant, lacks details, and seems

        illogical (unbelievable, untrue).



        "The Second Factor is that the

        student who is in A HURRY FOR

        INFORMATION and engages in

        SPEED READING or JUMPS TO

        CONCLUSIONS on the basis of

        a few paragraphs HASTILY

        SCAMMED, misses the most

        important benefits of all."



        It's no wonder that Eckists

        still get confused with the

        "do as I say, not as I do"

        attitude and rules that all

        religious leaders use!



        BTW- What are "the most

        important benefits of all,"

        for the chela, that PT is

        mentioning in this last

        sentence? Aren't the Higher

        EK Initiations the most

        important benefits of all!



        Prometheus



        HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!



        prometheus wrote:



        Hello Etznab and All,

        Or, we could look at "The" living

        "saviour" origin as well. I don't

        know! However, PT realized that

        people needed a living idol to adore

        and had this Mystic World article

        written in his behalf:



        "But few ever connect him up with

        being a holy man, the MAHANTA,

        the Living ECK Master. There is a

        need of the people to believe in

        the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul

        Twitchell knows this and acts out

        the part." [April-May-June 1971,

        Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,

        pg. 250]



        However, in order to become a

        "Saviour" Paul had to have had

        a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The

        following comes from pages 251-

        253 of Difficulties of Becoming

        the Living ECK Master:



        "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...

        Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and

        Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss

        the birth of the coming Avatar

        for the Twentieth Century,

        Peddar Zaskq. Born in the

        Caucasian mountains during

        the seventeenth century...

        Given several years in the art

        of silence and Darkness he gained

        enlightenment in preparation

        for his return to the Twentieth

        Century. [HK should take note

        of this next statement] When

        the time came for his demise,

        he passed away still looking

        the same youthful appearance

        yet beyond the normal age of

        man....



        This time Peddar Zaskq was

        born on a Mississippi River

        packet enroute to New Orleans.

        The miraculous birth took place

        just below the city of Natchez,

        Mississippi just below a stock

        farm (manger)... There appeared

        a Blue Carnation in a vase on

        a night table by THE mother's

        bed... It was immediately

        arranged for him to be given

        a home in which to be raised.

        His foster parents raised him

        in a small southern river town

        [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted

        their name and became known

        as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]



        We, also, have Twit saying this

        as an excuse for his lies and self-

        promotion [pg. 126]:



        "So therefore we got to be, to

        place ourselves in the mainstream,

        which I hope I do and I have to say,

        unless I make myself a Historical

        Figure, the struggle of ECK for

        survival is useless. And the question

        of that comes up, well, why? Why

        do you make such a statement as

        that? Every man who sets out to

        do something in this world, unless

        he made himself a Historical Figure,

        then he never again is remembered

        except by a few when he passes."



        PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is

        on page 254 and comes from

        an article in The Mystic World

        July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:



        "The rest of his story is told in

        fragments of his first visit to

        Paris to be with his stepsister,

        who was in training to be an

        artist. It was here that he first

        met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,

        and followed him to India with

        his stepsister to study ECK..."



        More about "Paris" (Kentucky)

        from pages 38-40:



        "Later I would be able to go to

        Paris to see my sister who was

        studying art at one of the art

        studios Over There. She was

        under an instructor who had

        studied under Degas... who was

        a very famous portrait painter

        of the opera and the ballet during

        his day in PARIS."



        Thus, we can clearly see that Twit

        was lying and trying to deceive us

        into thinking this was Paris, France

        (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's

        including Degas in the story.



        "I suppose that that's where she

        got her ability to paint figures

        because she had COPIED Degas

        time and time again... Well, in

        living in Paris, I was quite happy

        at the time when I was OVER there

        with my SISTER, my stepsister,

        Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]



        "...we took advantage of this freedom,

        because for some reason the Europeans

        seemed to have an affection for young

        people, more than they had in the

        western countries, particularly at that

        time." [Here, PT has without a doubt

        connected-the-dots for us by saying

        that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]



        "We were just a few block away from

        Montmartre, where all the famous

        artists were living... Edgar Degas was

        the last that I knew of, Katie was very

        close to him because she was studying

        under one of his students." [Was Degas

        even living in this year? What a liar!]



        "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the

        leading advocate of Soul Travel. From

        Paris we decided that we would go back

        to his little ashram, which was five miles

        above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old

        Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France

        (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]



        "After I had left India, came home, I was

        then about sixteen. I had a year or so to

        do some work in order to finish my degree."

        [page 48]



        Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as

        Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16

        this was 1924. However, Klemp states

        on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)

        Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who

        in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and

        "twisting facts" and that he'd never

        traveled outside of the United States

        at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,

        as the M/LEM, lying about these events

        in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,

        France prior to 1965 and never traveled

        to India (from Paris) with his sister to

        meet Sudar Singh at age 16.



        Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:



        "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first

        set out in my first work, I'm having to go

        back and redo these things and try to

        correct them." [page 135]



        prometheus



        etznab wrote:



        Prometheus & All,



        Where and when do you suppose the idea

        of "The" Living Master first occurred in the

        records of history?



        Anybody want to hazard a guess about the

        time frame?



        How about the country?



        Etznab



        Hello Z and All,

        I agree that there is only One link

        up with the Divine. IMO it's not

        through a manmade religion or via

        their manmade initiations. It's an

        on-going series of private, personal,

        and subjective events/experiences

        with the Holy Spirit that excludes a

        group think/consciousness, although,

        we all have commonalities.



        No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor

        any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole

        out real/true initiations (denoting levels

        of spiritual consciousness) to others

        by saying this or that person deserves

        one while another doesn't.



        However, one has to understand how

        religion works. It's very competitive.

        It's almost like buying an insurance

        policy. The one that has the best

        word of mouth reputation via happy

        customers and advertises more, while

        having the best value and coverage

        for the cost, usually does well until

        it defaults due to too many claims

        that it can't cover. After a default

        or a hesitation on coverage of their

        promises (policy) the company

        (religion) can come across as an

        unsafe investment (scam). Thus,

        people will then start to shop

        around. However, if you're Self-

        insured you don't need to shop

        around...



        Yes, I too seem to remember Twit

        saying that Sat Nam will take over

        Soul's guidance upon receiving the

        5th initiation.



        In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,

        1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam

        is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's

        EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is

        "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;

        the Power, the Light, flowing down

        and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,

        GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."

        [pg. 183]



        If one is to take this literally it means

        that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner

        Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,

        many other religions acknowledge

        Sat Nam and have written of this

        entity in ancient text while PT, on

        the other hand, created his "Mahanta"

        competitor in 1969.



        See, once again we can see how

        religions compete with one another

        for members. Eckists need to be

        willing to stand back and take a

        detached look.



        As I said before... buying into a

        religion is like buying insurance...

        just don't trust that you can collect

        on their promises (in this lifetime)

        and read the exclusions (fine print).

        However, one should remember

        that in the Free World one doesn't

        need to buy/have a religion. It's

        not the law!



        Prometheus



        zephrendhun wrote:



        Well said Promethius!



        But then again as I have said,

        there really is only one link up

        or one true initiation.



        IMO, all other initiations are

        EK ankar's way of maintaining

        'customer base'.



        The God Realized state can only

        be achieved through diligence

        by the chela to establish a one on

        one relationship with Divine Source.



        Strange though, I seem to remember

        reading somewhere in the works

        of ECK that after the chela reaches

        the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam

        takes over looking after the chela

        and his journey into God Consciousness.

        I may be wrong, but I do believe

        I saw this somewhere in Paul's

        writings.



        Fashji



        prometheus wrote:



        Klemp doesn't deliver on any

        real promises does he? Why

        hasn't Klemp speeded up the

        ECK initiations so that the

        promise of God-Realization

        in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?



        Why were the EK initiations

        "slowed down" in the first

        place? Wasn't HK claiming

        the initiations were "slowed

        down" because of Darwin's

        past involvement with promoting

        500 EKists to the 5th before

        he was excommunicated? So,

        what's been the excuse since

        Klemp guided them to become

        real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting

        these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't

        have affected the 6ths, 7ths,

        or 8th initiations! Klemp has

        been using this as an excuse

        Not to promote for all of these

        years! This is subterfuge!



        Where's the Master's promise

        of "protection" to chelas too?

        Instead, the excuse is that it's

        a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),

        or Karma and maybe a minor

        "test" for chelas (lower initiates).



        Here's a quote from HK's

        Eckankar Lexicon:



        "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane

        of GOD-REALIZATION where

        Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;

        the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound

        is of a thousand violins; the

        word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE

        SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;

        the first realm created that

        IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,

        and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

        [page. 91]



        Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and

        "Entities" "Generally Reach

        and Dwell" on this 8th Plane

        via the 8th Initiation.



        BTW- Who are these "Beings"

        and "Entities" that the 8th

        Plane is "Available To?"



        Notice that HK states that

        Soul "Generally Reaches" the

        "8th Plane." Does that include

        all Souls, or just those paying

        that Annual ECKankar Membership

        Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't

        it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon

        doesn't require an EK Membership

        I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's

        for the public too. One has to

        assume that HK is speaking "in

        general" terms and that this includes

        all Souls, Beings, and Entities

        whoever or whatever they are!



        Yes, who are these "Beings" and

        "Entities" that Klemp is including?



        However, since ECKists are special

        since they have a "Mahanta" why is

        it that they aren't growing by leaps

        and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?

        Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or

        what? IMO it's another Catch-22

        "Test!"



        Really! Let's think about it.

        Why hasn't Klemp handed

        out more 8th Initiations? By

        my guesstimate there should

        be at least 3,000 8th Initiates

        by now!



        I know that this figure sounds

        inflated and even impossible!

        Most Eckists would be shocked

        to see such a high number and

        would immediately discount and

        deny that such a high number

        would be possible. Maybe some

        H.I.s would give a nervous laugh

        or just say Haw! But, think about

        it for awhile. Let it sink in and

        consider the possibility. Hasn't

        the Consciousness of ECKists,

        and Eckankar as a group, expanded

        or "evolved" to the point where

        there should be 3,000 8th Plane

        Initiates?



        Reread the above definition for

        HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in

        Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar

        Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's

        Eckankar Dictionary PT stated

        this:



        "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of

        God-Realization where Soul

        learns God-knowledge, the

        eighth plane." [pg. 62]



        Thus Klemp added the following

        to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition

        in his 1998 EK Lexicon:



        "The sound is of a thousand

        violins; the word is Aluk.

        HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY

        REACHES; the first realm created

        that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,

        SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."



        Anyway, isn't one of the big

        promises of Eckankar that of

        reaching Spiritual Freedom and

        Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,

        via the ECK Initiations that are

        seen as "yardsticks" to Higher

        Consciousness? Sure it is!



        So, where are all of those 8th

        Initiations? Klemp is just selfish

        and time is running out for him

        and others. He, or someone, needs

        to make restitution and keep those

        promises, at least, with the 8th

        Initiation which equates to God-

        Realization! Even if Klemp can't

        protect the health and well being

        of his, DG's and PT's initiates

        he could at least promote and

        give ECKists the 8th Initiation.



        If it's too much for Klemp (the

        LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone

        he can designate some of the

        responsibility to Rebazar and

        the other EK Masters. Therefore,

        there really shouldn't be any more

        delays or excuses. Promote them

        now!



        Prometheus

        p.s. It's really too bad that there

        can't be an honest and open discussion

        about this. ECKists are instructed

        to "surrender" and "serve" with

        detachment and are to keep "silent"

        and not to "second guess" the LEM/

        Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions

        have always maintained control

        over their followers? What does

        Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"

        that he fears and this is why HK

        relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,

        with their positions of authority,

        to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.



        ******

        Some European Countries

        Protect Their Citizens From

        the Cults of ECKankar and

        Scientology.



        I saw where the French office

        of the Church of Scientology

        sect got into trouble for fraud.



        Is it possible that Eckankar

        could be next? Apparently

        Eckankar and Scientology

        are listed as "sects/cults"

        in many European countries

        (France, Belgium, Germany,

        etc.). These sects, like Scientology

        and Eckankar, don't have the

        legal status of main stream

        religions, nor do they have

        the same benefits under their

        laws.



        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html



        The question is:



        What could be regarded as fraud?



        Would the Annual EK Membership

        Donation/Fee that promises

        enlightenment (God-Realization),

        via the 8th initiation for most

        Eckists in this lifetime, as well

        as, the "Protections" of the Master

        for all chelas (that never happens)

        be considered as Fraud? Klemp

        slowed these initiations down

        due to Darwin's involvement,

        but that's been a long time ago!



        Look at all of the ECKists

        who have died of or have

        contracted Cancer and other

        diseases! Yet, Klemp (the

        Master) promises them

        "Protection!"



        And, look at HK's "promises"

        to chelas and H.I.s involving

        God-Realization in this lifetime

        and yet he doesn't offer enough

        Higher Initiations to fullfil his

        promises! And, maintaining

        one's initiations is directly tied

        into the Annual EK Membership

        Donation Fee.



        Thus, the taking of money by

        Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK

        Discourses and EK Memberships

        and the making of False Promises

        to chelas for this present lifetime

        constitutes Fraud even though

        this isn't illegal in the U.S. for

        religions to make false promises.

        However, it is unethical and

        amoral at the very least! It does

        give "hope" to the disillusioned,

        disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,

        but isn't Eckankar supposed to

        be the best and highest path to

        help these Souls on earth, as well

        as, in heaven? Why then aren't the

        "promises" of the Master a reality

        in the physical instead of always

        being a KAL test or Karma?



        However, under most European

        Laws would this failure to deliver

        be considered to be fraudulent

        enough to be classified as a crime

        against the public? It seems so!



        It could be that under the laws

        of certain European countries that

        Eckankar (a religious Sect) could

        be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,

        or former Eckist, decided to be

        refunded the sums of their Annual

        EK Membership Donation Fees,

        and Eckankar denied the refunds.



        Maybe some former or current

        German, French, and Belgium

        Eckists will consider asking Eckankar

        for a refund for the sum of their

        EK Memberships over the years!



        Will Eckankar follow Scientology?



        ******



        Here's an excerpt of the definition

        of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary

        (1991):



        "FRAUD. An intentional perversion

        of truth for the purpose of inducing

        another in reliance upon it to part

        with some valuable thing belonging

        to him or to surrender a legal right...



        [A Required/Requested Annual

        Membership Donation $$$$$$]



        Elements of a cause of action for

        'fraud' include false representation

        of a present or past fact made by

        the defendant, action in reliance

        thereupon by plaintiff, and damage

        resulting to plaintiff from such

        misrepresentation... As distinguished

        from negligence, it is always

        positive, intentional. It comprises

        all acts, omissions, and concealments

        involving a breach of a legal or

        equitable duty and resulting in

        damage to another. And includes

        anything calculated to deceive,

        whether it be a single act or

        combination of circumstances...

        Fraud, as applied to contracts,

        is the cause of an error bearing

        on a material part of the contract,

        created or contained by artifice,

        with design to obtain some unjust

        advantage to one party, or to cause

        an inconvenience or loss to the other."



        Thus, Eckankar has conducted a

        fraud of misrepresentation since

        it doesn't deliver on the Higher

        Initiations ["omissions"] required

        to attain God-Realization! [Refer

        to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book

        2, Chapter 12.]



        Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied

        "contract" with his followers, but

        he only makes empty promises

        and does not fulfill his obligations,

        and yet he's ready and willing to take

        Eckists' hard earned money!



        And, let's look at Eckankar's

        "concealment" regarding Twitchell's

        plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues

        to cover-up these facts.



        Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,

        sects, and cults (unless proven to be

        guilty of higher crimes) basically have

        carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can

        make false promises for money.



        What a scam! Eckists have been paying

        for their initiations for years but have

        been locked-out of those required for

        God-Realization!



        It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's

        lead. However, in Belgium, France and

        Germany these cults and sects don't

        have the same protection as "religions"

        do. This is what the U.S. should have

        done 50 years ago!



        Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, This is quite a long post, but it has interesting time- line info that proves both Twitchell and Klemp are liars! Here re the Timelines
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 7, 2009
          Hello Etznab and All,
          This is quite a long post,
          but it has interesting time-
          line info that proves both
          Twitchell and Klemp are liars!

          Here're the Timelines from
          HK's "Behind the Scenes with
          Paul Twitchell" (on Eckankar.org)
          and from PT's audio interview
          "Difficulties Of Becoming the LEM"
          [DOBTLEM]:

          First, Klemp gives Twitchell's
          birthdate as 10/22/1908.

          *At age 16 (1924) PT claims to
          have traveled to Paris, France
          (where Montmartre is located)
          to visit his stepsister Kay-Dee
          (Katie) and then traveled to India
          to meet Sudar Singh.

          "We were just a few block away from
          Montmartre, where all the famous
          artists were living... Edgar Degas was
          the last that I knew of, Katie was very
          close to him because she was studying
          under one of his students." [Was Degas
          even living in this year? What a liar!]

          "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
          leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
          Paris we decided that we would go back
          to his little ashram, which was five miles
          above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
          Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
          (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

          "After I had left India, came home, I was
          then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
          do some work in order to finish my degree."
          [DOBTLEM, page 48]


          *Klemp claims, on Eckankar.org,
          that Twitchell at age 27 (1935) was
          'exaggerating' and 'twisting facts'
          to get into Who's Who in Kentucky
          and that PT had never traveled far
          from home. Thus, no trip to India,
          after Paris, to meet Sudar in 1924!

          BTW- Marman claims that Twit was
          actually visiting his stepsister in Paris,
          Kentucky versus Paris, France. However,
          it's obvious that Twitchell was referring
          to being in France versus Kentucky
          because he mentioned "Montmartre."
          Thus, it's clear that PT lied about traveling
          to India, after Paris, at age 16 (1924).

          *Twitchell states that he met
          Rebazar in 1947 on his "first"
          visit to India and that Kirpal
          Singh was dead, and that he
          received the 7th Initiation. by
          Rebazar." [DOBTLEM, pg. 70]

          *Klemp mentions that Twit met
          with Rebazar in 1951 on his
          "second" trip to India.

          *This "second" trip is when
          Twitchell claims to have
          "finished" his Initiations under
          Rebazar, thus, PT is basically
          saying he got the 12th from
          RT in 1951!

          *From 1950-1955 Twitchell
          was a chela of Swami Premananda.

          *From 1955-1965 Twitchell
          was initiated by Kirpal Singh
          (aka "Sudar" Singh) who was
          the spiritual leader and living
          Master of Ruhani Satsang. Kirpal
          died in 1974 (three years after
          Twitchell).

          *During this time frame PT
          was also associated with
          L. Ron and Scientology.

          *PT, also, had Gail initiated
          by Kirpal on his second visit
          to the U.S. around 1961 or
          1963 (I forget).

          *Kirpal returned Twitchell's
          "The Tiger's Fang" manuscript
          circa June, 1966 after a "falling
          out" centering around PT's
          'exaggerations' and the 'twisting
          of facts' involving Paul's
          travels/experiences to the
          inner planes. PT was trying
          to exalt himself to great
          heights in order to have Kirpal
          give him the authority to give
          initiations in the U.S. This
          "authority" would have given
          PT the validity he was seeking
          in order to break away from
          Kirpal and start his own sect
          of Ruhani Satsang.

          Prometheus


          etznab wrote:

          Do you have a page number where
          it mentions Sudar Singh had passed
          away by 1947?

          [P]- page 70

          Etznab


          Prometheus wrote:
          Here's some detailed info on
          Rebazar and PT's initiations,
          but first a look at how/where/
          when Paul studied and learned
          how to control the "group mind."

          "My life of Several Years in
          Washington D.C., was uneventful
          in the fact that I didn't do any-
          thing great. I didn't do anything
          wonderful..."

          [Paul was just a "normal" liar
          during his transitional period.]

          "I could come and go in the
          embassies fairly well as much
          as I wanted to and got to know
          people of this nature and to be
          able to study them, and find out
          that they were people who only
          had actually, a tremendous amount
          of knowledge about How Group
          Minds Work, How National Minds
          Work in a Country, and have a
          tremendous knowledge about
          relations, Human Relations."
          [pg. 68]


          See, how Paul is studying the
          "group mind" to find ways to
          control the masses. Sounds
          like what a Black Magician
          would do!

          Next is PT's Sudar and Rebazar
          story. Notice how it seems that
          Paul's making it all up as he
          goes along. He tends to backtrack
          some, exaggerates, or gets
          details and facts wrong. Lying
          takes much more effort than
          recounting the truth. Remember,
          too, this book was transcribed
          from audio interviews done
          circa June-July, 1971).



          "Well, anyway, in about 1947,
          it was right shortly after the
          Indians nation, India, received
          their freedom from England
          and then became a nation...
          I went over to Darjeeling...
          right on the Sikkim border...
          I went up there at the time
          after being over in Allahabad,
          and there wasn't much left
          there after SUDAR SINGH HAD
          PASSED AWAY.

          But then I went there and I'd
          been told that I would find the
          ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs, I've
          got something about that in
          one of my books, I think it's
          Introduction to ECK in which
          I have it. I told about meeting
          him up in that part of the world.

          I STAYED THERE FOR QUITE
          SOME TIME WITH HIM [Rebazar],
          SIX TO SEVEN MONTHS, BEING
          TAUGHT AND LEARNING THE
          WORKS OF ECK. And then I
          was told to come back because
          then I would start into the true
          works of ECKANKAR.

          Now, HE INITIATED ME THERE.
          I had already BEEN INITIATED
          BY SUDAR SINGH, THE SAME
          AS EVERYBODY ELSE, THE
          SECOND INITIATION.

          AND I GOT THE THIRD AND
          THE FOURTH. I WENT UP
          THROUGH about THE SEVENTH
          AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.

          Then he [Rebazar?] moved
          across over into Kashmir,
          up in the Hindu Kush Mountains,
          and later, BUT NOT ON THIS
          TRIP, I FOLLOWED HIM UP THERE
          AND I GOT THE FINISH OF MY
          INITIATIONS." [pgs. 70-71]



          Thus, Twitchell is claiming, in
          this 1971 Interview, that AFTER
          he was discharged from the Navy,
          in 1947, that he "physically"
          traveled to India and stayed with
          Rebazar for "SIX to SEVEN MONTHS"
          and was given the SEVENTH
          INITIATION by him. Klemp claims
          on Eckankar.org that PT "physically"
          returned to INDIA, a second time,
          to meet Rebazar in 1951.

          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html

          However, the timeline shows
          that Twitchell was a member
          of Swami Premananda's church
          from 1950-1955, and was a
          member of Kirpal Singh's Ruhani
          Satsang (and/or was associated
          with him) from 1955-1965.

          Of course, Paul was, also, a
          member of Scientology after
          he, supposedly, received the
          7th Initiation from Rebazar
          in 1947.

          Even Klemp admits that there
          was still a connection with Kirpal
          Singh involving PT's The Tiger's
          Fang manuscript and a falling
          out with Kirpal.

          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

          Also, isn't it strange that Klemp
          mentions Kirpal's name about
          15 times and 970th LEM Sudar's
          name about 4 times in this info
          "Behind the Scenes with Paul
          Twitchell!"

          However, How could Paul have
          gotten the 7th Initiation from
          Rebazar, in India, in 1947 and
          then become an initiate of Kirpal
          Singh during the timeline of
          having written "The Tiger's Fang?"
          Kirpal returned the manuscript
          to Paul circa 1966.

          Plus, Kirpal initiated Paul in
          1955 on his first visit to the
          U.S. and Gail was initiated
          by Kirpal on his next visit
          to the U.S.! Why would Paul
          want an initiation by Kirpal,
          in 1955, if PT was a 7th
          Initiate in Eckankar in 1947
          and a 12th (finished) in 1951?

          Thus, we have another reason
          as to why Klemp and Company
          doesn't want this "historic"
          document reprinted!

          Also, why did Paul need to
          "PHYSICALLY RETURN" to India
          and climb the Hindu Kush Mountains
          to revisit Rebazar, after receiving
          the SEVENTH INITIATION (in 1947),
          in order to "finish" his initiations
          with Rebazar.

          Twit states, on page 71, about
          an experience with Rebazar (in
          1947) while sitting under a shade
          tree:

          "... when I was staying at the
          Ashram in ALLAHABAD which
          belonged to Sudar Singh...
          I'll say something here about
          Rebazar Tarzs... I THOUGHT
          that he had MANIFESTED himself
          because I just looked up and
          and there he was walking towards
          me... I FELT that he'd MANIFESTED
          himself because I had averted
          my eyes from the path which
          was directly in front of me, for
          just a matter of moments as
          anyone would do if they look
          around."

          Now, Why would Twit need to
          travel to India in his physical
          body a "second time" if Rebazar
          could "manifest" himself anywhere?

          Wasn't "Dialogues with the Master"
          dictated to Twit at night, in his
          bedroom, in the U.S., via Rebazar
          physically "manifesting" himself!

          See! It's all a bunch of lies and
          Klemp is part of it and the cover-up!

          But, then again, Klemp doesn't
          want to ruin the good thing he's
          got going on, and he certainly
          doesn't want to give up the power
          trip he's on. It's cool to have
          thousands of people bow down
          before you, to get giddy and nervous
          in your presence and thinking
          Harry's "Higher" than the "God"
          of all of the other religions on
          earth!

          Can Eckists see the irony of,
          "My God is Bigger Than Yours!"


          prometheus wrote:

          Hello Sharon and All,
          Yes, Paul does truly reveal himself
          in this book. His negative attitude
          and subversiveness, while in the
          Navy during WWII, was a real eye-
          opener! I can see why Klemp and
          Company don't want this book
          reprinted... WOW!

          After all, in June, 1971 when
          Twitch was recounting these
          earlier experiences (that were
          later placed into this book) Paul
          was the "Full" Mahanta, and
          didn't have any problem with
          nor find any fault with his
          past behaviours. He had no
          regrets about it! To Twitchell
          the Navy was a joke and he
          was going to have some sport
          with them (manipulate them)
          and take it easy while they miss-
          placed his paperwork due, in
          part, to his passive/aggressive
          attitude toward "superior officers."

          PT: "... on setting my mind on
          something, it was going to work
          exactly my way. If I got into the
          service, I wasn't going to be
          bothered with this sort of thing,
          of going out there on the front
          line and fighting. I was going to
          find myself a nice, comfortable
          berth someplace and be kept
          there."

          "I found out so many times in
          dealing with thousands of people,
          that they never knew this. And
          this is one of the Acts of Power
          that all the Dictators and everybody
          else had found, BUT I was using
          it in My way and Not using it as
          a control over a great number of
          people, EXCEPT to keep Myself
          out of positions of danger."

          "... the higher echelon, or the
          superior officers, were always
          having a rough time with me
          because I never acted in accordance
          to what they expected of their
          enlisted personnel. I could block
          them and create all sorts of
          frustrations and problems for
          them which they never knew
          was happening, or they never
          laid the CAUSE to me. I could
          get the papers fumbled up on
          myself until one time they got
          me lost! ... this sort of thing
          had created a vacuum which
          I had set out to do, to create
          the confusion, and I was 'lost'
          between battalions."

          "... sometimes I'd go downtown,
          and sometimesI'd go to the
          canteen on the base, or I'd
          sleep or do something."

          "Well, life became sort of a
          'don't care' --happy-go-lucky--
          Easy Way of living sort of thing
          and everybody was having a big
          laugh, and all that sort of thing.
          So then I decided that I had to
          be an officer..."

          "I knew that if anybody was Never
          physically fit for sea duty, that
          was me, because Psychologically
          I didn't want to get shot at. So
          I set the wheels in motion Behind
          The Scenes and the first thing
          I did, I went over to see the man
          who swore in new officers... which
          should have been the last thing
          on the list of doing. So he swore
          me in and there was nothing that
          they could do about it because
          I flunked my physical examination;
          I got out of most of them, but I
          flunked what I did take and made
          them awfully mad, but they says,
          'I don't know what to do.' ... And
          instead of going to sea, they started
          me in a training school..."

          "And all of this thing was in motion
          working for me, this Behind The Scene
          thing that I was talking about that
          I had learned to control my own
          destiny." [pgs. 52-57]

          Thus, we can see how a ConMan
          like Twit thinks and behaves even
          during wartime. It's all about him
          and having an angle. And, is it a
          coincidence that Twit mentions
          the term "Behind the Scenes" twice
          and that Klemp has a section on
          Eckankar.org that is titled "Behind
          the Scenes" with Paul Twitchell.

          BTW- Here are excerpts from the
          MR. ECK story (pgs. 94-96):

          "... I was on a parking lot getting
          ready to pull out, when some gentleman,
          long, lanky, looked like he had been
          dried up like a bean pole and a little
          hat on his head, rushed over and
          viewed my license plate which had
          nothing but 'ECK' on it; that is all,
          no numbers or anything. And he says,
          'Are you Mr. ECK?' And I very cautiously
          answered him, 'Why, yes, of course.'
          Which meaning, that of course as the
          MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master,
          I'm Mr. ECK, yes. He says, 'Y'know,
          I married... or rather my wife's maiden
          name was ECK, Amy ECK.' I says, 'Well,
          isn't that wonderful!' He says, 'Yes,
          it is.'

          [So, since the Mahanta is the ECK
          Paul didn't really lie to this guy.
          See how Twitchell rationalizes
          and makes it all up as he goes
          along. BTW -I shortened the
          dialogue because Paul goes on
          and on.]


          "... He just went away in a very
          blurred manner, his mind was only
          thinking of the communication and
          the warm relationship that he had
          suddenly struck up with this stranger
          here who was actually in a way, kidding
          him...."

          "Well, this is one of the funny things
          about the Astral Plane and the Physical
          Plane because the Astral Plane will do
          a lot of this in the sense of Not, it's
          Not a Deceit or anything BUT it is arousing
          the emotions and the emotions overcome
          common sense on the intellectual side
          and we don't have any answer to give
          when somebody makes us recall an
          incident as what would be in this,
          projecting ourselves in the future to
          say what we would think of it."

          PT's comments in this book
          show the foundations of
          deceit behind Eckankar.

          I had a message that we
          need to 'let go and move
          on.' Well, I will when Eckists
          do! When those I helped to
          bring into the EK org. recognize
          the lies, quit, and move on
          then I will too!


          Prometheus


          brighttigress wrote:

          [Digest Number 1527]


          Good one, Prometheus!

          "Diff" is a great book because it
          reveals a lot about Twitch, in his
          own words. I really do think that
          subconsciously, Twitch wanted
          people to see that ekult was just
          one big scam, sort of a practical
          joke, and he wanted to be recognized
          for his criminal genius.

          I always thought his claims about
          the number of books he'd read were
          a gross exaggeration. It's humanly
          impossible. And his claims that he
          could "read" a book by sleeping on it -
          well, Edgar Cayce could do that, and
          Twitch stole the idea. Just like he
          referred to Cayce when he was caught
          giving the same expensive "eck-vidya"
          readings to the same people, and threw
          a bit of a Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention
          to the man behind the curtain" hissy-fit
          and told people he had "masterly" reasons
          for the duplicate readings that lowbies
          couldn't understand - and he whined
          that surely Cayce had made some mistakes
          in his "readings", too.

          I forget where Twitch wrote that he was
          going to rewrite history, but I remember
          posting the quote a long time ago. And,
          is it in "Diff" where Twitch writes about
          running into a derelict-type one night,
          who was looking for "Mr. Eck", and had
          that lightbulb moment and decided that
          *he* would be "Mr. Eck"?

          And the one where he's walking on the
          beach feeling sorry for himself and looking
          at his failed life....moaning & groaning
          "why me"....when aha, he realizes it's
          because he's been in training to become
          Master of the Universe!!

          Puh-leeze!!!

          If you read Twitch's own thoughts & words,
          and delete all the purloined "spiritual" stuff,
          he truly reveals himself.

          Hugs,

          Sharon

          Prometheus wrote:
          These quotes are from "Difficulties
          Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."

          Here's a 1971 comment from PT
          from page 28:

          "I knew that I myself was not the
          same as that child that was next
          to me. I knew that I was superior
          in my mentality, I knew that I was
          superior to the teacher in all my
          knowledge, in all my understanding."

          Here's what appeared earlier in
          the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic
          World article (page 244):

          "Paul does not appear to like the
          intellectual person. He says they
          are all the same, making elaborate
          little plans. They give fussy attention
          to small perfections and when something
          goes wrong because of their inborn
          blindness, they scream frantically
          for help from someone else to act
          in their behalf--to do something
          for them."

          Thus, it seems we have another PT
          contradiction or a self-loathing!

          BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the
          "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,
          ninth edition" is Paul (the original
          Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp
          via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof
          that Klemp Would Not have been
          Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!

          Here's more of what Paul has to say
          about his intellect and how to "read"
          books (pg. 30):

          "Anyway, this was one of the things
          I'm trying to show you that where
          I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,
          over these other people, and I got
          it in the way that I told you one time
          from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES
          READING THEM and sometimes it
          just came natural to me... This
          was a part of that which we call the
          mastership or the training of the
          ECK mastership."

          More on what Paul has to say about
          reading (pg. 98):

          "It is said now that a reader who is
          a good reader, who enjoys reading,
          can read 7,000 books a year normally.
          I have proven this out myself because
          when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT
          35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT
          I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD
          FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000
          BOOKS of every subject you can know
          which built me a background for a
          certain bit of the work I have today...
          when I was in Washington, D.C. for
          several years, I READ about 15,000
          books in the Congressional Library...
          in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000
          or something like that when I was
          there for one year in 1946."

          Well, as we can see Paul is Full of
          B.S. He sounds like the ConMan
          that he was and shows us that at
          the most he either "skimmed" these
          35,000 books, or is lying about
          this too! But, in any case he does
          show us how he created the
          "background" for Eckankar as
          "a certain bit of the work I have
          today."

          Here's more PT comments (1971)
          that tend to contradict the use of
          skim-reading and the sleeping on
          books for "chelas" with regard to
          The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):

          "They lack a good understanding
          as to what is taking place as they
          study these. Often they become
          entangled in trying to figure out
          a syntax, notice a typographical
          error, or READ QUICKLY FOR
          INFORMATION. They tie themselves
          up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,
          and other sorts of opinions and
          SOME READ QUICKLY and say,
          'There is nothing new in that.'

          This is nothing new because EKists,
          still, tend to fill-in the blanks with
          their imaginations when the info
          comes up short (too simple), is
          redundant, lacks details, and seems
          illogical (unbelievable, untrue).

          "The Second Factor is that the
          student who is in A HURRY FOR
          INFORMATION and engages in
          SPEED READING or JUMPS TO
          CONCLUSIONS on the basis of
          a few paragraphs HASTILY
          SCAMMED, misses the most
          important benefits of all."

          It's no wonder that Eckists
          still get confused with the
          "do as I say, not as I do"
          attitude and rules that all
          religious leaders use!

          BTW- What are "the most
          important benefits of all,"
          for the chela, that PT is
          mentioning in this last
          sentence? Aren't the Higher
          EK Initiations the most
          important benefits of all!

          Prometheus

          HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

          prometheus wrote:

          Hello Etznab and All,
          Or, we could look at "The" living
          "saviour" origin as well. I don't
          know! However, PT realized that
          people needed a living idol to adore
          and had this Mystic World article
          written in his behalf:

          "But few ever connect him up with
          being a holy man, the MAHANTA,
          the Living ECK Master. There is a
          need of the people to believe in
          the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul
          Twitchell knows this and acts out
          the part." [April-May-June 1971,
          Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
          pg. 250]

          However, in order to become a
          "Saviour" Paul had to have had
          a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The
          following comes from pages 251-
          253 of Difficulties of Becoming
          the Living ECK Master:

          "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...
          Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and
          Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss
          the birth of the coming Avatar
          for the Twentieth Century,
          Peddar Zaskq. Born in the
          Caucasian mountains during
          the seventeenth century...
          Given several years in the art
          of silence and Darkness he gained
          enlightenment in preparation
          for his return to the Twentieth
          Century. [HK should take note
          of this next statement] When
          the time came for his demise,
          he passed away still looking
          the same youthful appearance
          yet beyond the normal age of
          man....

          This time Peddar Zaskq was
          born on a Mississippi River
          packet enroute to New Orleans.
          The miraculous birth took place
          just below the city of Natchez,
          Mississippi just below a stock
          farm (manger)... There appeared
          a Blue Carnation in a vase on
          a night table by THE mother's
          bed... It was immediately
          arranged for him to be given
          a home in which to be raised.
          His foster parents raised him
          in a small southern river town
          [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted
          their name and became known
          as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]


          We, also, have Twit saying this
          as an excuse for his lies and self-
          promotion [pg. 126]:

          "So therefore we got to be, to
          place ourselves in the mainstream,
          which I hope I do and I have to say,
          unless I make myself a Historical
          Figure, the struggle of ECK for
          survival is useless. And the question
          of that comes up, well, why? Why
          do you make such a statement as
          that? Every man who sets out to
          do something in this world, unless
          he made himself a Historical Figure,
          then he never again is remembered
          except by a few when he passes."


          PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is
          on page 254 and comes from
          an article in The Mystic World
          July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:

          "The rest of his story is told in
          fragments of his first visit to
          Paris to be with his stepsister,
          who was in training to be an
          artist. It was here that he first
          met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,
          and followed him to India with
          his stepsister to study ECK..."

          More about "Paris" (Kentucky)
          from pages 38-40:

          "Later I would be able to go to
          Paris to see my sister who was
          studying art at one of the art
          studios Over There. She was
          under an instructor who had
          studied under Degas... who was
          a very famous portrait painter
          of the opera and the ballet during
          his day in PARIS."

          Thus, we can clearly see that Twit
          was lying and trying to deceive us
          into thinking this was Paris, France
          (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's
          including Degas in the story.

          "I suppose that that's where she
          got her ability to paint figures
          because she had COPIED Degas
          time and time again... Well, in
          living in Paris, I was quite happy
          at the time when I was OVER there
          with my SISTER, my stepsister,
          Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]

          "...we took advantage of this freedom,
          because for some reason the Europeans
          seemed to have an affection for young
          people, more than they had in the
          western countries, particularly at that
          time." [Here, PT has without a doubt
          connected-the-dots for us by saying
          that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]

          "We were just a few block away from
          Montmartre, where all the famous
          artists were living... Edgar Degas was
          the last that I knew of, Katie was very
          close to him because she was studying
          under one of his students." [Was Degas
          even living in this year? What a liar!]

          "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
          leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
          Paris we decided that we would go back
          to his little ashram, which was five miles
          above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
          Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
          (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

          "After I had left India, came home, I was
          then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
          do some work in order to finish my degree."
          [page 48]

          Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as
          Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16
          this was 1924. However, Klemp states
          on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)
          Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who
          in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and
          "twisting facts" and that he'd never
          traveled outside of the United States
          at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,
          as the M/LEM, lying about these events
          in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,
          France prior to 1965 and never traveled
          to India (from Paris) with his sister to
          meet Sudar Singh at age 16.

          Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:

          "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first
          set out in my first work, I'm having to go
          back and redo these things and try to
          correct them." [page 135]


          prometheus


          etznab wrote:

          Prometheus & All,

          Where and when do you suppose the idea
          of "The" Living Master first occurred in the
          records of history?

          Anybody want to hazard a guess about the
          time frame?

          How about the country?

          Etznab

          Hello Z and All,
          I agree that there is only One link
          up with the Divine. IMO it's not
          through a manmade religion or via
          their manmade initiations. It's an
          on-going series of private, personal,
          and subjective events/experiences
          with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
          group think/consciousness, although,
          we all have commonalities.

          No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
          any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
          out real/true initiations (denoting levels
          of spiritual consciousness) to others
          by saying this or that person deserves
          one while another doesn't.

          However, one has to understand how
          religion works. It's very competitive.
          It's almost like buying an insurance
          policy. The one that has the best
          word of mouth reputation via happy
          customers and advertises more, while
          having the best value and coverage
          for the cost, usually does well until
          it defaults due to too many claims
          that it can't cover. After a default
          or a hesitation on coverage of their
          promises (policy) the company
          (religion) can come across as an
          unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
          people will then start to shop
          around. However, if you're Self-
          insured you don't need to shop
          around...


          Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
          saying that Sat Nam will take over
          Soul's guidance upon receiving the
          5th initiation.

          In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
          1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
          is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
          EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
          "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
          the Power, the Light, flowing down
          and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
          GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."
          [pg. 183]

          If one is to take this literally it means
          that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
          Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
          many other religions acknowledge
          Sat Nam and have written of this
          entity in ancient text while PT, on
          the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
          competitor in 1969.

          See, once again we can see how
          religions compete with one another
          for members. Eckists need to be
          willing to stand back and take a
          detached look.

          As I said before... buying into a
          religion is like buying insurance...
          just don't trust that you can collect
          on their promises (in this lifetime)
          and read the exclusions (fine print).
          However, one should remember
          that in the Free World one doesn't
          need to buy/have a religion. It's
          not the law!

          Prometheus


          zephrendhun wrote:

          Well said Promethius!

          But then again as I have said,
          there really is only one link up
          or one true initiation.

          IMO, all other initiations are
          EK ankar's way of maintaining
          'customer base'.

          The God Realized state can only
          be achieved through diligence
          by the chela to establish a one on
          one relationship with Divine Source.

          Strange though, I seem to remember
          reading somewhere in the works
          of ECK that after the chela reaches
          the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
          takes over looking after the chela
          and his journey into God Consciousness.
          I may be wrong, but I do believe
          I saw this somewhere in Paul's
          writings.

          Fashji

          prometheus wrote:

          Klemp doesn't deliver on any
          real promises does he? Why
          hasn't Klemp speeded up the
          ECK initiations so that the
          promise of God-Realization
          in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?

          Why were the EK initiations
          "slowed down" in the first
          place? Wasn't HK claiming
          the initiations were "slowed
          down" because of Darwin's
          past involvement with promoting
          500 EKists to the 5th before
          he was excommunicated? So,
          what's been the excuse since
          Klemp guided them to become
          real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
          these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
          have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
          or 8th initiations! Klemp has
          been using this as an excuse
          Not to promote for all of these
          years! This is subterfuge!

          Where's the Master's promise
          of "protection" to chelas too?
          Instead, the excuse is that it's
          a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
          or Karma and maybe a minor
          "test" for chelas (lower initiates).

          Here's a quote from HK's
          Eckankar Lexicon:

          "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
          of GOD-REALIZATION where
          Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
          the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
          is of a thousand violins; the
          word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
          SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
          the first realm created that
          IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
          and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
          [page. 91]

          Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
          "Entities" "Generally Reach
          and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
          via the 8th Initiation.

          BTW- Who are these "Beings"
          and "Entities" that the 8th
          Plane is "Available To?"

          Notice that HK states that
          Soul "Generally Reaches" the
          "8th Plane." Does that include
          all Souls, or just those paying
          that Annual ECKankar Membership
          Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
          it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
          doesn't require an EK Membership
          I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
          for the public too. One has to
          assume that HK is speaking "in
          general" terms and that this includes
          all Souls, Beings, and Entities
          whoever or whatever they are!

          Yes, who are these "Beings" and
          "Entities" that Klemp is including?

          However, since ECKists are special
          since they have a "Mahanta" why is
          it that they aren't growing by leaps
          and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
          Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
          what? IMO it's another Catch-22
          "Test!"

          Really! Let's think about it.
          Why hasn't Klemp handed
          out more 8th Initiations? By
          my guesstimate there should
          be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
          by now!

          I know that this figure sounds
          inflated and even impossible!
          Most Eckists would be shocked
          to see such a high number and
          would immediately discount and
          deny that such a high number
          would be possible. Maybe some
          H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
          or just say Haw! But, think about
          it for awhile. Let it sink in and
          consider the possibility. Hasn't
          the Consciousness of ECKists,
          and Eckankar as a group, expanded
          or "evolved" to the point where
          there should be 3,000 8th Plane
          Initiates?

          Reread the above definition for
          HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
          Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
          Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
          Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
          this:

          "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
          God-Realization where Soul
          learns God-knowledge, the
          eighth plane." [pg. 62]

          Thus Klemp added the following
          to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
          in his 1998 EK Lexicon:

          "The sound is of a thousand
          violins; the word is Aluk.
          HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
          REACHES; the first realm created
          that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
          SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

          Anyway, isn't one of the big
          promises of Eckankar that of
          reaching Spiritual Freedom and
          Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
          via the ECK Initiations that are
          seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
          Consciousness? Sure it is!

          So, where are all of those 8th
          Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
          and time is running out for him
          and others. He, or someone, needs
          to make restitution and keep those
          promises, at least, with the 8th
          Initiation which equates to God-
          Realization! Even if Klemp can't
          protect the health and well being
          of his, DG's and PT's initiates
          he could at least promote and
          give ECKists the 8th Initiation.

          If it's too much for Klemp (the
          LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
          he can designate some of the
          responsibility to Rebazar and
          the other EK Masters. Therefore,
          there really shouldn't be any more
          delays or excuses. Promote them
          now!

          Prometheus
          p.s. It's really too bad that there
          can't be an honest and open discussion
          about this. ECKists are instructed
          to "surrender" and "serve" with
          detachment and are to keep "silent"
          and not to "second guess" the LEM/
          Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
          have always maintained control
          over their followers? What does
          Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
          that he fears and this is why HK
          relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
          with their positions of authority,
          to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.

          ******
          Some European Countries
          Protect Their Citizens From
          the Cults of ECKankar and
          Scientology.

          I saw where the French office
          of the Church of Scientology
          sect got into trouble for fraud.

          Is it possible that Eckankar
          could be next? Apparently
          Eckankar and Scientology
          are listed as "sects/cults"
          in many European countries
          (France, Belgium, Germany,
          etc.). These sects, like Scientology
          and Eckankar, don't have the
          legal status of main stream
          religions, nor do they have
          the same benefits under their
          laws.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html


          The question is:

          What could be regarded as fraud?

          Would the Annual EK Membership
          Donation/Fee that promises
          enlightenment (God-Realization),
          via the 8th initiation for most
          Eckists in this lifetime, as well
          as, the "Protections" of the Master
          for all chelas (that never happens)
          be considered as Fraud? Klemp
          slowed these initiations down
          due to Darwin's involvement,
          but that's been a long time ago!

          Look at all of the ECKists
          who have died of or have
          contracted Cancer and other
          diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
          Master) promises them
          "Protection!"

          And, look at HK's "promises"
          to chelas and H.I.s involving
          God-Realization in this lifetime
          and yet he doesn't offer enough
          Higher Initiations to fullfil his
          promises! And, maintaining
          one's initiations is directly tied
          into the Annual EK Membership
          Donation Fee.

          Thus, the taking of money by
          Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
          Discourses and EK Memberships
          and the making of False Promises
          to chelas for this present lifetime
          constitutes Fraud even though
          this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
          religions to make false promises.
          However, it is unethical and
          amoral at the very least! It does
          give "hope" to the disillusioned,
          disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
          but isn't Eckankar supposed to
          be the best and highest path to
          help these Souls on earth, as well
          as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
          "promises" of the Master a reality
          in the physical instead of always
          being a KAL test or Karma?

          However, under most European
          Laws would this failure to deliver
          be considered to be fraudulent
          enough to be classified as a crime
          against the public? It seems so!

          It could be that under the laws
          of certain European countries that
          Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
          be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
          or former Eckist, decided to be
          refunded the sums of their Annual
          EK Membership Donation Fees,
          and Eckankar denied the refunds.

          Maybe some former or current
          German, French, and Belgium
          Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
          for a refund for the sum of their
          EK Memberships over the years!


          Will Eckankar follow Scientology?

          ******

          Here's an excerpt of the definition
          of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
          (1991):

          "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
          of truth for the purpose of inducing
          another in reliance upon it to part
          with some valuable thing belonging
          to him or to surrender a legal right...

          [A Required/Requested Annual
          Membership Donation $$$$$$]

          Elements of a cause of action for
          'fraud' include false representation
          of a present or past fact made by
          the defendant, action in reliance
          thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
          resulting to plaintiff from such
          misrepresentation... As distinguished
          from negligence, it is always
          positive, intentional. It comprises
          all acts, omissions, and concealments
          involving a breach of a legal or
          equitable duty and resulting in
          damage to another. And includes
          anything calculated to deceive,
          whether it be a single act or
          combination of circumstances...
          Fraud, as applied to contracts,
          is the cause of an error bearing
          on a material part of the contract,
          created or contained by artifice,
          with design to obtain some unjust
          advantage to one party, or to cause
          an inconvenience or loss to the other."


          Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
          fraud of misrepresentation since
          it doesn't deliver on the Higher
          Initiations ["omissions"] required
          to attain God-Realization! [Refer
          to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
          2, Chapter 12.]

          Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
          "contract" with his followers, but
          he only makes empty promises
          and does not fulfill his obligations,
          and yet he's ready and willing to take
          Eckists' hard earned money!

          And, let's look at Eckankar's
          "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
          plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
          to cover-up these facts.

          Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
          sects, and cults (unless proven to be
          guilty of higher crimes) basically have
          carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
          make false promises for money.

          What a scam! Eckists have been paying
          for their initiations for years but have
          been locked-out of those required for
          God-Realization!

          It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
          lead. However, in Belgium, France and
          Germany these cults and sects don't
          have the same protection as "religions"
          do. This is what the U.S. should have
          done 50 years ago!

          Prometheus
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