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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 1527

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  • Sharon
    Good one, Prometheus! Diff is a great book because it reveals a lot about Twitch, in his own words. I really do think that subconsciously, Twitch wanted
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 3, 2009
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      Good one, Prometheus!

      "Diff" is a great book because it reveals a lot about Twitch, in his own words. I really do think that subconsciously, Twitch wanted people to see that ekult was just one big scam, sort of a practical joke, and he wanted to be recognized for his criminal genius.

      I always thought his claims about the number of books he'd read were a gross exaggeration. It's humanly impossible. And his claims that he could "read" a book by sleeping on it - well, Edgar Cayce could do that, and Twitch stole the idea. Just like he referred to Cayce when he was caught giving the same expensive "eck-vidya" readings to the same people, and threw a bit of a Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" hissy-fit and told people he had "masterly" reasons for the duplicate readings that lowbies couldn't understand - and he whined that surely Cayce had made some mistakes in his "readings", too.

      I forget where Twitch wrote that he was going to rewrite history, but I remember posting the quote a long time ago. And, is it in "Diff" where Twitch writes about running into a derelict-type one night, who was looking for "Mr. Eck", and had that lightbulb moment and decided that *he* would be "Mr. Eck"?

      And the one where he's walking on the beach feeling sorry for himself and looking at his failed life....moaning & groaning "why me"....when aha, he realizes it's because he's been in training to become Master of the Universe!!

      Puh-leeze!!!

      If you read Twitch's own thoughts & words, and delete all the purloined "spiritual" stuff, he truly reveals himself.

      Hugs,

      Sharon





      ________________________________________________________________________
      > 1a. More From PT's "Difficulties Of Becoming The LEM"
      >     Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@...
      > prometheus_973
      >     Date: Mon Nov 2, 2009 1:16 pm ((PST))
      >
      > These quotes are from "Difficulties
      > Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."
      >
      > Here's a 1971 comment from PT
      > from page 28:
      >
      > "I knew that I myself was not the
      > same as that child that was next
      > to me. I knew that I was superior
      > in my mentality, I knew that I was
      > superior to the teacher in all my
      > knowledge, in all my understanding."
      >
      > Here's what appeared earlier in
      > the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic
      > World article (page 244):
      >
      > "Paul does not appear to like the
      > intellectual person. He says they
      > are all the same, making elaborate
      > little plans. They give fussy attention
      > to small perfections and when something
      > goes wrong because of their inborn
      > blindness, they scream frantically
      > for help from someone else to act
      > in their behalf--to do something
      > for them."
      >
      > Thus, it seems we have another PT
      > contradiction or a self-loathing!
      >
      > BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the
      > "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,
      > ninth edition" is Paul (the original
      > Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp
      > via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof
      > that Klemp Would Not have been
      > Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!
      >
      > Here's more of what Paul has to say
      > about his intellect and how to "read"
      > books (pg. 30):
      >
      > "Anyway, this was one of the things
      > I'm trying to show you that where
      > I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,
      > over these other people, and I got
      > it in the way that I told you one time
      > from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES
      > READING THEM and sometimes it
      > just came natural to me... This
      > was a part of that which we call the
      > mastership or the training of the
      > ECK mastership."
      >
      > More on what Paul has to say about
      > reading (pg. 98):
      >
      > "It is said now that a reader who is
      > a good reader, who enjoys reading,
      > can read 7,000 books a year normally.
      > I have proven this out myself because
      > when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT
      > 35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT
      > I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD
      > FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000
      > BOOKS of every subject you can know
      > which built me a background for a
      > certain bit of the work I have today...
      > when I was in Washington, D.C. for
      > several years, I READ about 15,000
      > books in the Congressional Library...
      > in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000
      > or something like that when I was
      > there for one year in 1946."
      >
      > Well, as we can see Paul is Full of
      > B.S. He sounds like the ConMan
      > that he was and shows us that at
      > the most he either "skimmed" these
      > 35,000 books, or is lying about
      > this too! But, in any case he does
      > show us how he created the
      > "background" for Eckankar as
      > "a certain bit of the work I have
      > today."
      >
      > Here's more PT comments (1971)
      > that tend to contradict the use of
      > skim-reading and the sleeping on
      > books for "chelas" with regard to
      > The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):
      >
      > "They lack a good understanding
      > as to what is taking place as they
      > study these. Often they become
      > entangled in trying to figure out
      > a syntax, notice a typographical
      > error, or READ QUICKLY FOR
      > INFORMATION. They tie themselves
      > up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,
      > and other sorts of opinions and
      > SOME READ QUICKLY and say,
      > 'There is nothing new in that.'
      >
      > This is nothing new because EKists,
      > still, tend to fill-in the blanks with
      > their imaginations when the info
      > comes up short (too simple), is
      > redundant, lacks details, and seems
      > illogical (unbelievable, untrue).
      >
      > "The Second Factor is that the
      > student who is in A HURRY FOR
      > INFORMATION and engages in
      > SPEED READING or JUMPS TO
      > CONCLUSIONS  on the basis of
      > a few paragraphs HASTILY
      > SCAMMED, misses the most
      > important benefits of all." 
      >
      > It's no wonder that Eckists
      > still get confused with the
      > "do as I say, not as I do"
      > attitude and rules that all
      > religious leaders use!
      >
      > BTW- What are "the most
      > important benefits of all,"
      > for the chela, that PT is
      > mentioning in this last
      > sentence? Aren't the Higher
      > EK Initiations the most
      > important benefits of all!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Etznab and All,
      > Or, we could look at "The" living
      > "saviour" origin as well. I don't
      > know! However, PT realized that
      > people needed a living idol to adore
      > and had this Mystic World article
      > written in his behalf:
      >
      > "But few ever connect him up with
      > being a holy man, the MAHANTA,
      > the Living ECK Master. There is a
      > need of the people to believe in
      > the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul
      > Twitchell knows this and acts out
      > the part." [April-May-June 1971,
      > Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
      > pg. 250]
      >
      > However, in order to become a
      > "Saviour" Paul had to have had
      > a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The
      > following comes from pages 251-
      > 253 of Difficulties of Becoming
      > the Living ECK Master:
      >
      > "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...
      > Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and
      > Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss
      > the birth of the coming Avatar
      > for the Twentieth Century,
      > Peddar Zaskq. Born in the
      > Caucasian mountains during
      > the seventeenth century...
      > Given several years in the art
      > of silence and Darkness he gained
      > enlightenment in preparation
      > for his return to the Twentieth
      > Century. [HK should take note
      > of this next statement] When
      > the time came for his demise,
      > he passed away still looking
      > the same youthful appearance
      > yet beyond the normal age of
      > man....
      >
      > This time Peddar Zaskq was
      > born on a Mississippi River
      > packet enroute to New Orleans.
      > The miraculous birth took place
      > just below the city of Natchez,
      > Mississippi just below a stock
      > farm (manger)... There appeared
      > a Blue Carnation in a vase on
      > a night table by THE mother's
      > bed... It was immediately
      > arranged for him to be given
      > a home in which to be raised.
      > His foster parents raised him
      > in a small southern river town
      > [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted
      > their name and became known
      > as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]
      >
      >
      > We, also, have Twit saying this
      > as an excuse for his lies and self-
      > promotion [pg. 126]:
      >
      > "So therefore we got to be, to
      > place ourselves in the mainstream,
      > which I hope I do and I have to say,
      > unless I make myself a Historical
      > Figure, the struggle of ECK for
      > survival is useless. And the question
      > of that comes up, well, why? Why
      > do you make such a statement as
      > that? Every man who sets out to
      > do something in this world, unless
      > he made himself a Historical Figure,
      > then he never again is remembered
      > except by a few when he passes."
      >
      >
      > PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is
      > on page 254 and comes from
      > an article in The Mystic World
      > July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:
      >
      > "The rest of his story is told in
      > fragments of his first visit to
      > Paris to be with his stepsister,
      > who was in training to be an
      > artist. It was here that he first
      > met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,
      > and followed him to India with
      > his stepsister to study ECK..."
      >
      > More about "Paris" (Kentucky)
      > from pages 38-40:
      >
      > "Later I would be able to go to
      > Paris to see my sister who was
      > studying art at one of the art
      > studios Over There. She was
      > under an instructor who had
      > studied under Degas... who was
      > a very famous portrait painter
      > of the opera and the ballet during
      > his day in PARIS."
      >
      > Thus, we can clearly see that Twit
      > was lying and trying to deceive us
      > into thinking this was Paris, France
      > (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's
      > including Degas in the story.
      >
      > "I suppose that that's where she
      > got her ability to paint figures
      > because she had COPIED Degas
      > time and time again... Well, in
      > living in Paris, I was quite happy
      > at the time when I was OVER there
      > with my SISTER, my stepsister,
      > Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]
      >
      > "...we took advantage of this freedom,
      > because for some reason the Europeans
      > seemed to have an affection for young
      > people, more than they had in the
      > western countries, particularly at that
      > time." [Here, PT has without a doubt
      > connected-the-dots for us by saying
      > that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]
      >
      > "We were just a few block away from
      > Montmartre, where all the famous
      > artists were living... Edgar Degas was
      > the last that I knew of, Katie was very
      > close to him because she was studying
      > under one of his students." [Was Degas
      > even living in this year? What a liar!]
      >
      > "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
      > leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
      > Paris we decided that we would go back
      > to his little ashram, which was five miles
      > above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
      > Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
      > (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]
      >
      > "After I had left India, came home, I was
      > then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
      > do some work in order to finish my degree."
      > [page 48]
      >
      > Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as
      > Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16
      > this was 1924. However, Klemp states
      > on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)
      > Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who
      > in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and
      > "twisting facts" and that he'd never
      > traveled outside of the United States
      > at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,
      > as the M/LEM, lying about these events
      > in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,
      > France prior to 1965 and never traveled
      > to India (from Paris) with his sister to
      > meet Sudar Singh at age 16.
      >
      > Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:
      >
      > "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first
      > set out in my first work, I'm having to go
      > back and redo these things and try to
      > correct them." [page 135]
      >
      >
      > prometheus
      >
      >
      > etznab wrote:
      >
      > Prometheus & All,
      >
      > Where and when do you suppose the idea
      > of "The" Living Master first occurred in the
      > records of history?
      >
      > Anybody want to hazard a guess about the
      > time frame?
      >
      > How about the country?
      >
      > Etznab
      >
      > Hello Z and All,
      > I agree that there is only One link
      > up with the Divine. IMO it's not
      > through a manmade religion or via
      > their manmade initiations. It's an
      > on-going series of private, personal,
      > and subjective events/experiences
      > with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
      > group think/consciousness, although,
      > we all have commonalities.
      >
      > No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
      > any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
      > out real/true initiations (denoting levels
      > of spiritual consciousness) to others
      > by saying this or that person deserves
      > one while another doesn't.
      >
      > However, one has to understand how
      > religion works. It's very competitive.
      > It's almost like buying an insurance
      > policy. The one that has the best
      > word of mouth reputation via happy
      > customers and advertises more, while
      > having the best value and coverage
      > for the cost, usually does well until
      > it defaults due to too many claims
      > that it can't cover. After a default
      > or a hesitation on coverage of their
      > promises (policy) the company
      > (religion) can come across as an
      > unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
      > people will then start to shop
      > around. However, if you're Self-
      > insured you don't need to shop
      > around...
      >
      >
      > Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
      > saying that Sat Nam will take over
      > Soul's guidance upon receiving the
      > 5th initiation.
      >
      > In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
      > 1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
      > is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
      > EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
      > "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
      > the Power, the Light, flowing down
      > and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
      > GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."
      > [pg. 183]
      >
      > If one is to take this literally it means
      > that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
      > Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
      > many other religions acknowledge
      > Sat Nam and have written of this
      > entity in ancient text while PT, on
      > the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
      > competitor in 1969.
      >
      > See, once again we can see how
      > religions compete with one another
      > for members. Eckists need to be
      > willing to stand back and take a
      > detached look.
      >
      > As I said before... buying into a
      > religion is like buying insurance...
      > just don't trust that you can collect
      > on their promises (in this lifetime)
      > and read the exclusions (fine print).
      > However, one should remember
      > that in the Free World one doesn't
      > need to buy/have a religion. It's
      > not the law!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > zephrendhun wrote:
      >
      > Well said Promethius!
      >
      > But then again as I have said,
      > there really is only one link up
      > or one true initiation.
      >
      > IMO, all other initiations are
      > EK ankar's way of maintaining
      > 'customer base'.
      >
      > The God Realized state can only
      > be achieved through diligence
      > by the chela to establish a one on
      > one relationship with Divine Source.
      >
      > Strange though, I seem to remember
      > reading somewhere in the works
      > of ECK that after the chela reaches
      > the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
      > takes over looking after the chela
      > and his journey into God Consciousness.
      > I may be wrong, but I do believe
      > I saw this somewhere in Paul's
      > writings.
      >
      > Fashji
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Klemp doesn't deliver on any
      > real promises does he? Why
      > hasn't Klemp speeded up the
      > ECK initiations so that the
      > promise of God-Realization
      > in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?
      >
      > Why were the EK initiations
      > "slowed down" in the first
      > place? Wasn't HK claiming
      > the initiations were "slowed
      > down" because of Darwin's
      > past involvement with promoting
      > 500 EKists to the 5th before
      > he was excommunicated? So,
      > what's been the excuse since
      > Klemp guided them to become
      > real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
      > these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
      > have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
      > or 8th initiations! Klemp has
      > been using this as an excuse
      > Not to promote for all of these
      > years! This is subterfuge!
      >
      > Where's the Master's promise
      > of "protection" to chelas too?
      > Instead, the excuse is that it's
      > a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
      > or Karma and maybe a minor
      > "test" for chelas (lower initiates).
      >
      > Here's a quote from HK's
      > Eckankar Lexicon:
      >
      > "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
      > of GOD-REALIZATION where
      > Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
      > the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
      > is of a thousand violins; the
      > word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
      > SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
      > the first realm created that
      > IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
      > and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
      > [page. 91]
      >
      > Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
      > "Entities" "Generally Reach
      > and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
      > via the 8th Initiation.
      >
      > BTW- Who are these "Beings"
      > and "Entities" that the 8th
      > Plane is "Available To?"
      >
      > Notice that HK states that
      > Soul "Generally Reaches" the
      > "8th Plane." Does that include
      > all Souls, or just those paying
      > that Annual ECKankar Membership
      > Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
      > it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
      > doesn't require an EK Membership
      > I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
      > for the public too. One has to
      > assume that HK is speaking "in
      > general" terms and that this includes
      > all Souls, Beings, and Entities
      > whoever or whatever they are!
      >
      > Yes, who are these "Beings" and
      > "Entities" that Klemp is including?
      >
      > However, since ECKists are special
      > since they have a "Mahanta" why is
      > it that they aren't growing by leaps
      > and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
      > Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
      > what? IMO it's another Catch-22
      > "Test!"
      >
      > Really! Let's think about it.
      > Why hasn't Klemp handed
      > out more 8th Initiations? By
      > my guesstimate there should
      > be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
      > by now!
      >
      > I know that this figure sounds
      > inflated and even impossible!
      > Most Eckists would be shocked
      > to see such a high number and
      > would immediately discount and
      > deny that such a high number
      > would be possible. Maybe some
      > H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
      > or just say Haw! But, think about
      > it for awhile. Let it sink in and
      > consider the possibility. Hasn't
      > the Consciousness of ECKists,
      > and Eckankar as a group, expanded
      > or "evolved" to the point where
      > there should be 3,000 8th Plane
      > Initiates?
      >
      > Reread the above definition for
      > HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
      > Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
      > Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
      > Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
      > this:
      >
      > "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
      > God-Realization where Soul
      > learns God-knowledge, the
      > eighth plane." [pg. 62]
      >
      > Thus Klemp added the following
      > to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
      > in his 1998 EK Lexicon:
      >
      > "The sound is of a thousand
      > violins; the word is Aluk.
      > HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
      > REACHES; the first realm created
      > that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
      > SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
      >
      > Anyway, isn't one of the big
      > promises of Eckankar that of
      > reaching Spiritual Freedom and
      > Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
      > via the ECK Initiations that are
      > seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
      > Consciousness? Sure it is!
      >
      > So, where are all of those 8th
      > Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
      > and time is running out for him
      > and others. He, or someone, needs
      > to make restitution and keep those
      > promises, at least, with the 8th
      > Initiation which equates to God-
      > Realization! Even if Klemp can't
      > protect the health and well being
      > of his, DG's and PT's initiates
      > he could at least promote and
      > give ECKists the 8th Initiation.
      >
      > If it's too much for Klemp (the
      > LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
      > he can designate some of the
      > responsibility to Rebazar and
      > the other EK Masters. Therefore,
      > there really shouldn't be any more
      > delays or excuses. Promote them
      > now!
      >
      > Prometheus
      > p.s. It's really too bad that there
      > can't be an honest and open discussion
      > about this. ECKists are instructed
      > to "surrender" and "serve" with
      > detachment and are to keep "silent"
      > and not to "second guess" the LEM/
      > Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
      > have always maintained control
      > over their followers? What does
      > Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
      > that he fears and this is why HK
      > relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
      > with their positions of authority,
      > to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.
      >
      > ******
      > Some European Countries
      > Protect Their Citizens From
      > the Cults of ECKankar and
      > Scientology.
      >
      > I saw where the French office
      > of the Church of Scientology
      > sect got into trouble for fraud.
      >
      > Is it possible that Eckankar
      > could be next? Apparently
      > Eckankar and Scientology
      > are listed as "sects/cults"
      > in many European countries
      > (France, Belgium, Germany,
      > etc.). These sects, like Scientology
      > and Eckankar, don't have the
      > legal status of main stream
      > religions, nor do they have
      > the same benefits under their
      > laws.
      >
      > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html
      >
      >
      > The question is:
      >
      > What could be regarded as fraud?
      >
      > Would the Annual EK Membership
      > Donation/Fee that promises
      > enlightenment (God-Realization),
      > via the 8th initiation for most
      > Eckists in this lifetime, as well
      > as, the "Protections" of the Master
      > for all chelas (that never happens)
      > be considered as Fraud? Klemp
      > slowed these initiations down
      > due to Darwin's involvement,
      > but that's been a long time ago!
      >
      > Look at all of the ECKists
      > who have died of or have
      > contracted Cancer and other
      > diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
      > Master) promises them
      > "Protection!"
      >
      > And, look at HK's "promises"
      > to chelas and H.I.s involving
      > God-Realization in this lifetime
      > and yet he doesn't offer enough
      > Higher Initiations to fullfil his
      > promises! And, maintaining
      > one's initiations is directly tied
      > into the Annual EK Membership
      > Donation Fee.
      >
      > Thus, the taking of money by
      > Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
      > Discourses and EK Memberships
      > and the making of False Promises
      > to chelas for this present lifetime
      > constitutes Fraud even though
      > this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
      > religions to make false promises.
      > However, it is unethical and
      > amoral at the very least! It does
      > give "hope" to the disillusioned,
      > disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
      > but isn't Eckankar supposed to
      > be the best and highest path to
      > help these Souls on earth, as well
      > as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
      > "promises" of the Master a reality
      > in the physical instead of always
      > being a KAL test or Karma?
      >
      > However, under most European
      > Laws would this failure to deliver
      > be considered to be fraudulent
      > enough to be classified as a crime
      > against the public? It seems so!
      >
      > It could be that under the laws
      > of certain European countries that
      > Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
      > be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
      > or former Eckist, decided to be
      > refunded the sums of their Annual
      > EK Membership Donation Fees,
      > and Eckankar denied the refunds.
      >
      > Maybe some former or current
      > German, French, and Belgium
      > Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
      > for a refund for the sum of their
      > EK Memberships over the years!
      >
      >
      > Will Eckankar follow Scientology?
      >
      > ******
      >
      > Here's an excerpt of the definition
      > of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
      > (1991):
      >
      > "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
      > of truth for the purpose of inducing
      > another in reliance upon it to part
      > with some valuable thing belonging
      > to him or to surrender a legal right...
      >
      > [A Required/Requested Annual
      > Membership Donation $$$$$$]
      >
      > Elements of a cause of action for
      > 'fraud' include false representation
      > of a present or past fact made by
      > the defendant, action in reliance
      > thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
      > resulting to plaintiff from such
      > misrepresentation... As distinguished
      > from negligence, it is always
      > positive, intentional. It comprises
      > all acts, omissions, and concealments
      > involving a breach of a legal or
      > equitable duty and resulting in
      > damage to another. And includes
      > anything calculated to deceive,
      > whether it be a single act or
      > combination of circumstances...
      > Fraud, as applied to contracts,
      > is the cause of an error bearing
      > on a material part of the contract,
      > created or contained by artifice,
      > with design to obtain some unjust
      > advantage to one party, or to cause
      > an inconvenience or loss to the other."
      >
      >
      > Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
      > fraud of misrepresentation since
      > it doesn't deliver on the Higher
      > Initiations ["omissions"] required
      > to attain God-Realization! [Refer
      > to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
      > 2, Chapter 12.]
      >
      > Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
      > "contract" with his followers, but
      > he only makes empty promises
      > and does not fulfill his obligations,
      > and yet he's ready and willing to take
      > Eckists' hard earned money!
      >
      > And, let's look at Eckankar's
      > "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
      > plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
      > to cover-up these facts.
      >
      > Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
      > sects, and cults (unless proven to be
      > guilty of higher crimes) basically have
      > carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
      > make false promises for money.
      >
      > What a scam! Eckists have been paying
      > for their initiations for years but have
      > been locked-out of those required for
      > God-Realization!
      >
      > It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
      > lead. However, in Belgium, France and
      > Germany these cults and sects don't
      > have the same protection as "religions"
      > do. This is what the U.S. should have
      > done 50 years ago!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Sharon and All, Yes, Paul does truly reveal himself in this book. His negative attitude and subversiveness, while in the Navy during WWII, was a real
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 4, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Sharon and All,
        Yes, Paul does truly reveal himself
        in this book. His negative attitude
        and subversiveness, while in the
        Navy during WWII, was a real eye-
        opener! I can see why Klemp and
        Company don't want this book
        reprinted... WOW!

        After all, in June, 1971 when
        Twitch was recounting these
        earlier experiences (that were
        later placed into this book) Paul
        was the "Full" Mahanta, and
        didn't have any problem with
        nor find any fault with his
        past behaviours. He had no
        regrets about it! To Twitchell
        the Navy was a joke and he
        was going to have some sport
        with them (manipulate them)
        and take it easy while they miss-
        placed his paperwork due, in
        part, to his passive/aggressive
        attitude toward "superior officers."

        PT: "... on setting my mind on
        something, it was going to work
        exactly my way. If I got into the
        service, I wasn't going to be
        bothered with this sort of thing,
        of going out there on the front
        line and fighting. I was going to
        find myself a nice, comfortable
        berth someplace and be kept
        there."

        "I found out so many times in
        dealing with thousands of people,
        that they never knew this. And
        this is one of the Acts of Power
        that all the Dictators and everybody
        else had found, BUT I was using
        it in My way and Not using it as
        a control over a great number of
        people, EXCEPT to keep Myself
        out of positions of danger."

        "... the higher echelon, or the
        superior officers, were always
        having a rough time with me
        because I never acted in accordance
        to what they expected of their
        enlisted personnel. I could block
        them and create all sorts of
        frustrations and problems for
        them which they never knew
        was happening, or they never
        laid the CAUSE to me. I could
        get the papers fumbled up on
        myself until one time they got
        me lost! ... this sort of thing
        had created a vacuum which
        I had set out to do, to create
        the confusion, and I was 'lost'
        between battalions."

        "... sometimes I'd go downtown,
        and sometimesI'd go to the
        canteen on the base, or I'd
        sleep or do something."

        "Well, life became sort of a
        'don't care' --happy-go-lucky--
        Easy Way of living sort of thing
        and everybody was having a big
        laugh, and all that sort of thing.
        So then I decided that I had to
        be an officer..."

        "I knew that if anybody was Never
        physically fit for sea duty, that
        was me, because Psychologically
        I didn't want to get shot at. So
        I set the wheels in motion Behind
        The Scenes and the first thing
        I did, I went over to see the man
        who swore in new officers... which
        should have been the last thing
        on the list of doing. So he swore
        me in and there was nothing that
        they could do about it because
        I flunked my physical examination;
        I got out of most of them, but I
        flunked what I did take and made
        them awfully mad, but they says,
        'I don't know what to do.' ... And
        instead of going to sea, they started
        me in a training school..."

        "And all of this thing was in motion
        working for me, this Behind The Scene
        thing that I was talking about that
        I had learned to control my own
        destiny." [pgs. 52-57]

        Thus, we can see how a ConMan
        like Twit thinks and behaves even
        during wartime. It's all about him
        and having an angle. And, is it a
        coincidence that Twit mentions
        the term "Behind the Scenes" twice
        and that Klemp has a section on
        Eckankar.org that is titled "Behind
        the Scenes" with Paul Twitchell.

        BTW- Here are excerpts from the
        MR. ECK story (pgs. 94-96):

        "... I was on a parking lot getting
        ready to pull out, when some gentleman,
        long, lanky, looked like he had been
        dried up like a bean pole and a little
        hat on his head, rushed over and
        viewed my license plate which had
        nothing but 'ECK' on it; that is all,
        no numbers or anything. And he says,
        'Are you Mr. ECK?' And I very cautiously
        answered him, 'Why, yes, of course.'
        Which meaning, that of course as the
        MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master,
        I'm Mr. ECK, yes. He says, 'Y'know,
        I married... or rather my wife's maiden
        name was ECK, Amy ECK.' I says, 'Well,
        isn't that wonderful!' He says, 'Yes,
        it is.'

        [So, since the Mahanta is the ECK
        Paul didn't really lie to this guy.
        See how Twitchell rationalizes
        and makes it all up as he goes
        along. BTW -I shortened the
        dialogue because Paul goes on
        and on.]


        "... He just went away in a very
        blurred manner, his mind was only
        thinking of the communication and
        the warm relationship that he had
        suddenly struck up with this stranger
        here who was actually in a way, kidding
        him...."

        "Well, this is one of the funny things
        about the Astral Plane and the Physical
        Plane because the Astral Plane will do
        a lot of this in the sense of Not, it's
        Not a Deceit or anything BUT it is arousing
        the emotions and the emotions overcome
        common sense on the intellectual side
        and we don't have any answer to give
        when somebody makes us recall an
        incident as what would be in this,
        projecting ourselves in the future to
        say what we would think of it."

        PT's comments in this book
        show the foundations of
        deceit behind Eckankar.

        I had a message that we
        need to 'let go and move
        on.' Well, I will when Eckists
        do! When those I helped to
        bring into the EK org. recognize
        the lies, quit, and move on
        then I will too!


        Prometheus


        brighttigress wrote:

        [Digest Number 1527]


        Good one, Prometheus!

        "Diff" is a great book because it
        reveals a lot about Twitch, in his
        own words. I really do think that
        subconsciously, Twitch wanted
        people to see that ekult was just
        one big scam, sort of a practical
        joke, and he wanted to be recognized
        for his criminal genius.

        I always thought his claims about
        the number of books he'd read were
        a gross exaggeration. It's humanly
        impossible. And his claims that he
        could "read" a book by sleeping on it -
        well, Edgar Cayce could do that, and
        Twitch stole the idea. Just like he
        referred to Cayce when he was caught
        giving the same expensive "eck-vidya"
        readings to the same people, and threw
        a bit of a Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention
        to the man behind the curtain" hissy-fit
        and told people he had "masterly" reasons
        for the duplicate readings that lowbies
        couldn't understand - and he whined
        that surely Cayce had made some mistakes
        in his "readings", too.

        I forget where Twitch wrote that he was
        going to rewrite history, but I remember
        posting the quote a long time ago. And,
        is it in "Diff" where Twitch writes about
        running into a derelict-type one night,
        who was looking for "Mr. Eck", and had
        that lightbulb moment and decided that
        *he* would be "Mr. Eck"?

        And the one where he's walking on the
        beach feeling sorry for himself and looking
        at his failed life....moaning & groaning
        "why me"....when aha, he realizes it's
        because he's been in training to become
        Master of the Universe!!

        Puh-leeze!!!

        If you read Twitch's own thoughts & words,
        and delete all the purloined "spiritual" stuff,
        he truly reveals himself.

        Hugs,

        Sharon

        Prometheus wrote:
        These quotes are from "Difficulties
        Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."

        Here's a 1971 comment from PT
        from page 28:

        "I knew that I myself was not the
        same as that child that was next
        to me. I knew that I was superior
        in my mentality, I knew that I was
        superior to the teacher in all my
        knowledge, in all my understanding."

        Here's what appeared earlier in
        the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic
        World article (page 244):

        "Paul does not appear to like the
        intellectual person. He says they
        are all the same, making elaborate
        little plans. They give fussy attention
        to small perfections and when something
        goes wrong because of their inborn
        blindness, they scream frantically
        for help from someone else to act
        in their behalf--to do something
        for them."

        Thus, it seems we have another PT
        contradiction or a self-loathing!

        BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the
        "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,
        ninth edition" is Paul (the original
        Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp
        via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof
        that Klemp Would Not have been
        Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!

        Here's more of what Paul has to say
        about his intellect and how to "read"
        books (pg. 30):

        "Anyway, this was one of the things
        I'm trying to show you that where
        I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,
        over these other people, and I got
        it in the way that I told you one time
        from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES
        READING THEM and sometimes it
        just came natural to me... This
        was a part of that which we call the
        mastership or the training of the
        ECK mastership."

        More on what Paul has to say about
        reading (pg. 98):

        "It is said now that a reader who is
        a good reader, who enjoys reading,
        can read 7,000 books a year normally.
        I have proven this out myself because
        when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT
        35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT
        I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD
        FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000
        BOOKS of every subject you can know
        which built me a background for a
        certain bit of the work I have today...
        when I was in Washington, D.C. for
        several years, I READ about 15,000
        books in the Congressional Library...
        in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000
        or something like that when I was
        there for one year in 1946."

        Well, as we can see Paul is Full of
        B.S. He sounds like the ConMan
        that he was and shows us that at
        the most he either "skimmed" these
        35,000 books, or is lying about
        this too! But, in any case he does
        show us how he created the
        "background" for Eckankar as
        "a certain bit of the work I have
        today."

        Here's more PT comments (1971)
        that tend to contradict the use of
        skim-reading and the sleeping on
        books for "chelas" with regard to
        The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):

        "They lack a good understanding
        as to what is taking place as they
        study these. Often they become
        entangled in trying to figure out
        a syntax, notice a typographical
        error, or READ QUICKLY FOR
        INFORMATION. They tie themselves
        up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,
        and other sorts of opinions and
        SOME READ QUICKLY and say,
        'There is nothing new in that.'

        This is nothing new because EKists,
        still, tend to fill-in the blanks with
        their imaginations when the info
        comes up short (too simple), is
        redundant, lacks details, and seems
        illogical (unbelievable, untrue).

        "The Second Factor is that the
        student who is in A HURRY FOR
        INFORMATION and engages in
        SPEED READING or JUMPS TO
        CONCLUSIONS on the basis of
        a few paragraphs HASTILY
        SCAMMED, misses the most
        important benefits of all."

        It's no wonder that Eckists
        still get confused with the
        "do as I say, not as I do"
        attitude and rules that all
        religious leaders use!

        BTW- What are "the most
        important benefits of all,"
        for the chela, that PT is
        mentioning in this last
        sentence? Aren't the Higher
        EK Initiations the most
        important benefits of all!

        Prometheus

        HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Etznab and All,
        Or, we could look at "The" living
        "saviour" origin as well. I don't
        know! However, PT realized that
        people needed a living idol to adore
        and had this Mystic World article
        written in his behalf:

        "But few ever connect him up with
        being a holy man, the MAHANTA,
        the Living ECK Master. There is a
        need of the people to believe in
        the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul
        Twitchell knows this and acts out
        the part." [April-May-June 1971,
        Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
        pg. 250]

        However, in order to become a
        "Saviour" Paul had to have had
        a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The
        following comes from pages 251-
        253 of Difficulties of Becoming
        the Living ECK Master:

        "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...
        Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and
        Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss
        the birth of the coming Avatar
        for the Twentieth Century,
        Peddar Zaskq. Born in the
        Caucasian mountains during
        the seventeenth century...
        Given several years in the art
        of silence and Darkness he gained
        enlightenment in preparation
        for his return to the Twentieth
        Century. [HK should take note
        of this next statement] When
        the time came for his demise,
        he passed away still looking
        the same youthful appearance
        yet beyond the normal age of
        man....

        This time Peddar Zaskq was
        born on a Mississippi River
        packet enroute to New Orleans.
        The miraculous birth took place
        just below the city of Natchez,
        Mississippi just below a stock
        farm (manger)... There appeared
        a Blue Carnation in a vase on
        a night table by THE mother's
        bed... It was immediately
        arranged for him to be given
        a home in which to be raised.
        His foster parents raised him
        in a small southern river town
        [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted
        their name and became known
        as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]


        We, also, have Twit saying this
        as an excuse for his lies and self-
        promotion [pg. 126]:

        "So therefore we got to be, to
        place ourselves in the mainstream,
        which I hope I do and I have to say,
        unless I make myself a Historical
        Figure, the struggle of ECK for
        survival is useless. And the question
        of that comes up, well, why? Why
        do you make such a statement as
        that? Every man who sets out to
        do something in this world, unless
        he made himself a Historical Figure,
        then he never again is remembered
        except by a few when he passes."


        PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is
        on page 254 and comes from
        an article in The Mystic World
        July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:

        "The rest of his story is told in
        fragments of his first visit to
        Paris to be with his stepsister,
        who was in training to be an
        artist. It was here that he first
        met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,
        and followed him to India with
        his stepsister to study ECK..."

        More about "Paris" (Kentucky)
        from pages 38-40:

        "Later I would be able to go to
        Paris to see my sister who was
        studying art at one of the art
        studios Over There. She was
        under an instructor who had
        studied under Degas... who was
        a very famous portrait painter
        of the opera and the ballet during
        his day in PARIS."

        Thus, we can clearly see that Twit
        was lying and trying to deceive us
        into thinking this was Paris, France
        (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's
        including Degas in the story.

        "I suppose that that's where she
        got her ability to paint figures
        because she had COPIED Degas
        time and time again... Well, in
        living in Paris, I was quite happy
        at the time when I was OVER there
        with my SISTER, my stepsister,
        Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]

        "...we took advantage of this freedom,
        because for some reason the Europeans
        seemed to have an affection for young
        people, more than they had in the
        western countries, particularly at that
        time." [Here, PT has without a doubt
        connected-the-dots for us by saying
        that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]

        "We were just a few block away from
        Montmartre, where all the famous
        artists were living... Edgar Degas was
        the last that I knew of, Katie was very
        close to him because she was studying
        under one of his students." [Was Degas
        even living in this year? What a liar!]

        "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
        leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
        Paris we decided that we would go back
        to his little ashram, which was five miles
        above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
        Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
        (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

        "After I had left India, came home, I was
        then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
        do some work in order to finish my degree."
        [page 48]

        Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as
        Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16
        this was 1924. However, Klemp states
        on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)
        Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who
        in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and
        "twisting facts" and that he'd never
        traveled outside of the United States
        at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,
        as the M/LEM, lying about these events
        in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,
        France prior to 1965 and never traveled
        to India (from Paris) with his sister to
        meet Sudar Singh at age 16.

        Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:

        "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first
        set out in my first work, I'm having to go
        back and redo these things and try to
        correct them." [page 135]


        prometheus


        etznab wrote:

        Prometheus & All,

        Where and when do you suppose the idea
        of "The" Living Master first occurred in the
        records of history?

        Anybody want to hazard a guess about the
        time frame?

        How about the country?

        Etznab

        Hello Z and All,
        I agree that there is only One link
        up with the Divine. IMO it's not
        through a manmade religion or via
        their manmade initiations. It's an
        on-going series of private, personal,
        and subjective events/experiences
        with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
        group think/consciousness, although,
        we all have commonalities.

        No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
        any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
        out real/true initiations (denoting levels
        of spiritual consciousness) to others
        by saying this or that person deserves
        one while another doesn't.

        However, one has to understand how
        religion works. It's very competitive.
        It's almost like buying an insurance
        policy. The one that has the best
        word of mouth reputation via happy
        customers and advertises more, while
        having the best value and coverage
        for the cost, usually does well until
        it defaults due to too many claims
        that it can't cover. After a default
        or a hesitation on coverage of their
        promises (policy) the company
        (religion) can come across as an
        unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
        people will then start to shop
        around. However, if you're Self-
        insured you don't need to shop
        around...


        Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
        saying that Sat Nam will take over
        Soul's guidance upon receiving the
        5th initiation.

        In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
        1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
        is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
        EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
        "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
        the Power, the Light, flowing down
        and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
        GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."
        [pg. 183]

        If one is to take this literally it means
        that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
        Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
        many other religions acknowledge
        Sat Nam and have written of this
        entity in ancient text while PT, on
        the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
        competitor in 1969.

        See, once again we can see how
        religions compete with one another
        for members. Eckists need to be
        willing to stand back and take a
        detached look.

        As I said before... buying into a
        religion is like buying insurance...
        just don't trust that you can collect
        on their promises (in this lifetime)
        and read the exclusions (fine print).
        However, one should remember
        that in the Free World one doesn't
        need to buy/have a religion. It's
        not the law!

        Prometheus


        zephrendhun wrote:

        Well said Promethius!

        But then again as I have said,
        there really is only one link up
        or one true initiation.

        IMO, all other initiations are
        EK ankar's way of maintaining
        'customer base'.

        The God Realized state can only
        be achieved through diligence
        by the chela to establish a one on
        one relationship with Divine Source.

        Strange though, I seem to remember
        reading somewhere in the works
        of ECK that after the chela reaches
        the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
        takes over looking after the chela
        and his journey into God Consciousness.
        I may be wrong, but I do believe
        I saw this somewhere in Paul's
        writings.

        Fashji

        prometheus wrote:

        Klemp doesn't deliver on any
        real promises does he? Why
        hasn't Klemp speeded up the
        ECK initiations so that the
        promise of God-Realization
        in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?

        Why were the EK initiations
        "slowed down" in the first
        place? Wasn't HK claiming
        the initiations were "slowed
        down" because of Darwin's
        past involvement with promoting
        500 EKists to the 5th before
        he was excommunicated? So,
        what's been the excuse since
        Klemp guided them to become
        real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
        these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
        have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
        or 8th initiations! Klemp has
        been using this as an excuse
        Not to promote for all of these
        years! This is subterfuge!

        Where's the Master's promise
        of "protection" to chelas too?
        Instead, the excuse is that it's
        a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
        or Karma and maybe a minor
        "test" for chelas (lower initiates).

        Here's a quote from HK's
        Eckankar Lexicon:

        "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
        of GOD-REALIZATION where
        Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
        the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
        is of a thousand violins; the
        word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
        SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
        the first realm created that
        IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
        and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
        [page. 91]

        Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
        "Entities" "Generally Reach
        and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
        via the 8th Initiation.

        BTW- Who are these "Beings"
        and "Entities" that the 8th
        Plane is "Available To?"

        Notice that HK states that
        Soul "Generally Reaches" the
        "8th Plane." Does that include
        all Souls, or just those paying
        that Annual ECKankar Membership
        Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
        it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
        doesn't require an EK Membership
        I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
        for the public too. One has to
        assume that HK is speaking "in
        general" terms and that this includes
        all Souls, Beings, and Entities
        whoever or whatever they are!

        Yes, who are these "Beings" and
        "Entities" that Klemp is including?

        However, since ECKists are special
        since they have a "Mahanta" why is
        it that they aren't growing by leaps
        and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
        Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
        what? IMO it's another Catch-22
        "Test!"

        Really! Let's think about it.
        Why hasn't Klemp handed
        out more 8th Initiations? By
        my guesstimate there should
        be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
        by now!

        I know that this figure sounds
        inflated and even impossible!
        Most Eckists would be shocked
        to see such a high number and
        would immediately discount and
        deny that such a high number
        would be possible. Maybe some
        H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
        or just say Haw! But, think about
        it for awhile. Let it sink in and
        consider the possibility. Hasn't
        the Consciousness of ECKists,
        and Eckankar as a group, expanded
        or "evolved" to the point where
        there should be 3,000 8th Plane
        Initiates?

        Reread the above definition for
        HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
        Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
        Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
        Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
        this:

        "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
        God-Realization where Soul
        learns God-knowledge, the
        eighth plane." [pg. 62]

        Thus Klemp added the following
        to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
        in his 1998 EK Lexicon:

        "The sound is of a thousand
        violins; the word is Aluk.
        HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
        REACHES; the first realm created
        that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
        SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

        Anyway, isn't one of the big
        promises of Eckankar that of
        reaching Spiritual Freedom and
        Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
        via the ECK Initiations that are
        seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
        Consciousness? Sure it is!

        So, where are all of those 8th
        Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
        and time is running out for him
        and others. He, or someone, needs
        to make restitution and keep those
        promises, at least, with the 8th
        Initiation which equates to God-
        Realization! Even if Klemp can't
        protect the health and well being
        of his, DG's and PT's initiates
        he could at least promote and
        give ECKists the 8th Initiation.

        If it's too much for Klemp (the
        LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
        he can designate some of the
        responsibility to Rebazar and
        the other EK Masters. Therefore,
        there really shouldn't be any more
        delays or excuses. Promote them
        now!

        Prometheus
        p.s. It's really too bad that there
        can't be an honest and open discussion
        about this. ECKists are instructed
        to "surrender" and "serve" with
        detachment and are to keep "silent"
        and not to "second guess" the LEM/
        Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
        have always maintained control
        over their followers? What does
        Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
        that he fears and this is why HK
        relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
        with their positions of authority,
        to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.

        ******
        Some European Countries
        Protect Their Citizens From
        the Cults of ECKankar and
        Scientology.

        I saw where the French office
        of the Church of Scientology
        sect got into trouble for fraud.

        Is it possible that Eckankar
        could be next? Apparently
        Eckankar and Scientology
        are listed as "sects/cults"
        in many European countries
        (France, Belgium, Germany,
        etc.). These sects, like Scientology
        and Eckankar, don't have the
        legal status of main stream
        religions, nor do they have
        the same benefits under their
        laws.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html


        The question is:

        What could be regarded as fraud?

        Would the Annual EK Membership
        Donation/Fee that promises
        enlightenment (God-Realization),
        via the 8th initiation for most
        Eckists in this lifetime, as well
        as, the "Protections" of the Master
        for all chelas (that never happens)
        be considered as Fraud? Klemp
        slowed these initiations down
        due to Darwin's involvement,
        but that's been a long time ago!

        Look at all of the ECKists
        who have died of or have
        contracted Cancer and other
        diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
        Master) promises them
        "Protection!"

        And, look at HK's "promises"
        to chelas and H.I.s involving
        God-Realization in this lifetime
        and yet he doesn't offer enough
        Higher Initiations to fullfil his
        promises! And, maintaining
        one's initiations is directly tied
        into the Annual EK Membership
        Donation Fee.

        Thus, the taking of money by
        Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
        Discourses and EK Memberships
        and the making of False Promises
        to chelas for this present lifetime
        constitutes Fraud even though
        this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
        religions to make false promises.
        However, it is unethical and
        amoral at the very least! It does
        give "hope" to the disillusioned,
        disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
        but isn't Eckankar supposed to
        be the best and highest path to
        help these Souls on earth, as well
        as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
        "promises" of the Master a reality
        in the physical instead of always
        being a KAL test or Karma?

        However, under most European
        Laws would this failure to deliver
        be considered to be fraudulent
        enough to be classified as a crime
        against the public? It seems so!

        It could be that under the laws
        of certain European countries that
        Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
        be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
        or former Eckist, decided to be
        refunded the sums of their Annual
        EK Membership Donation Fees,
        and Eckankar denied the refunds.

        Maybe some former or current
        German, French, and Belgium
        Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
        for a refund for the sum of their
        EK Memberships over the years!


        Will Eckankar follow Scientology?

        ******

        Here's an excerpt of the definition
        of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
        (1991):

        "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
        of truth for the purpose of inducing
        another in reliance upon it to part
        with some valuable thing belonging
        to him or to surrender a legal right...

        [A Required/Requested Annual
        Membership Donation $$$$$$]

        Elements of a cause of action for
        'fraud' include false representation
        of a present or past fact made by
        the defendant, action in reliance
        thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
        resulting to plaintiff from such
        misrepresentation... As distinguished
        from negligence, it is always
        positive, intentional. It comprises
        all acts, omissions, and concealments
        involving a breach of a legal or
        equitable duty and resulting in
        damage to another. And includes
        anything calculated to deceive,
        whether it be a single act or
        combination of circumstances...
        Fraud, as applied to contracts,
        is the cause of an error bearing
        on a material part of the contract,
        created or contained by artifice,
        with design to obtain some unjust
        advantage to one party, or to cause
        an inconvenience or loss to the other."


        Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
        fraud of misrepresentation since
        it doesn't deliver on the Higher
        Initiations ["omissions"] required
        to attain God-Realization! [Refer
        to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
        2, Chapter 12.]

        Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
        "contract" with his followers, but
        he only makes empty promises
        and does not fulfill his obligations,
        and yet he's ready and willing to take
        Eckists' hard earned money!

        And, let's look at Eckankar's
        "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
        plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
        to cover-up these facts.

        Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
        sects, and cults (unless proven to be
        guilty of higher crimes) basically have
        carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
        make false promises for money.

        What a scam! Eckists have been paying
        for their initiations for years but have
        been locked-out of those required for
        God-Realization!

        It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
        lead. However, in Belgium, France and
        Germany these cults and sects don't
        have the same protection as "religions"
        do. This is what the U.S. should have
        done 50 years ago!

        Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Here s some confusing info on Rebazar and PT s initiations, but first a look at how/where/ when Paul studied and learned how to control the group mind. My
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 5, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Here's some confusing info
          on Rebazar and PT's initiations,
          but first a look at how/where/
          when Paul studied and learned
          how to control the "group mind."

          "My life of Several Years in
          Washington D.C., was uneventful
          in the fact that I didn't do any-
          thing great. I didn't do anything
          wonderful..."

          [Paul was just a "normal" liar
          during his transitional period.]

          "I could come and go in the
          embassies fairly well as much
          as I wanted to and got to know
          people of this nature and to be
          able to study them, and find out
          that they were people who only
          had actually, a tremendous amount
          of knowledge about How Group
          Minds Work, How National Minds
          Work in a Country, and have a
          tremendous knowledge about
          relations, Human Relations."
          [pg. 68]


          See, how Paul is studying the
          "group mind" to find ways to
          control the masses. Sounds
          like what a Black Magician
          would do!

          Next is PT's Sudar and Rebazar
          story. Notice how it seems that
          Paul's making it all up as he
          goes along. He tends to backtrack
          some, exaggerates, or gets
          details and facts wrong. Lying
          takes much more effort than
          recounting the truth. Remember,
          too, this book was transcribed
          from audio interviews done
          circa June-July, 1971).



          "Well, anyway, in about 1947,
          it was right shortly after the
          Indians nation, India, received
          their freedom from England
          and then became a nation...
          I went over to Darjeeling...
          right on the Sikkim border...
          I went up there at the time
          after being over in Allahabad,
          and there wasn't much left
          there after SUDAR SINGH HAD
          PASSED AWAY.

          But then I went there and I'd
          been told that I would find the
          ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs, I've
          got something about that in
          one of my books, I think it's
          Introduction to ECK in which
          I have it. I told about meeting
          him up in that part of the world.

          I STAYED THERE FOR QUITE
          SOME TIME WITH HIM [Rebazar],
          SIX TO SEVEN MONTHS, BEING
          TAUGHT AND LEARNING THE
          WORKS OF ECK. And then I
          was told to come back because
          then I would start into the true
          works of ECKANKAR.

          Now, HE INITIATED ME THERE.
          I had already BEEN INITIATED
          BY SUDAR SINGH, THE SAME
          AS EVERYBODY ELSE, THE
          SECOND INITIATION.

          AND I GOT THE THIRD AND
          THE FOURTH. I WENT UP
          THROUGH about THE SEVENTH
          AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.

          Then he [Rebazar?] moved
          across over into Kashmir,
          up in the Hindu Kush Mountains,
          and later, BUT NOT ON THIS
          TRIP, I FOLLOWED HIM UP THERE
          AND I GOT THE FINISH OF MY
          INITIATIONS." [pgs. 70-71]



          Thus, Twitchell is claiming, in
          this 1971 Interview, that AFTER
          he was discharged from the Navy,
          in 1947, that he "physically"
          traveled to India and stayed with
          Rebazar for "SIX to SEVEN MONTHS"
          and was given the SEVENTH
          INITIATION by him. Klemp claims
          on Eckankar.org that PT "physically"
          returned to INDIA, a second time,
          to meet Rebazar in 1951.

          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html

          However, the timeline shows
          that Twitchell was a member
          of Swami Premananda's church
          from 1950-1955, and was a
          member of Kirpal Singh's Ruhani
          Satsang (and/or was associated
          with him) from 1955-1965.

          Of course, Paul was, also, a
          member of Scientology after
          he, supposedly, received the
          7th Initiation from Rebazar
          in 1947.

          Even Klemp admits that there
          was still a connection with Kirpal
          Singh involving PT's The Tiger's
          Fang manuscript and a falling
          out with Kirpal.

          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

          Also, isn't it strange that Klemp
          mentions Kirpal's name about
          15 times and 970th LEM Sudar's
          name about 4 times in this info
          "Behind the Scenes with Paul
          Twitchell!"

          However, How could Paul have
          gotten the 7th Initiation from
          Rebazar, in India, in 1947 and
          then become an initiate of Kirpal
          Singh during the timeline of
          having written "The Tiger's Fang?"
          Kirpal returned the manuscript
          to Paul circa 1966.

          Plus, Kirpal initiated Paul in
          1955 on his first visit to the
          U.S. and Gail was initiated
          by Kirpal on his next visit
          to the U.S.! Why would Paul
          want an initiation by Kirpal,
          in 1955, if PT was a 7th
          Initiate in Eckankar in 1947
          and a 12th (finished) in 1951?

          Thus, we have another reason
          as to why Klemp and Company
          doesn't want this "historic"
          document reprinted!

          Also, why did Paul need to
          "PHYSICALLY RETURN" to India
          and climb the Hindu Kush Mountains
          to revisit Rebazar, after receiving
          the SEVENTH INITIATION (in 1947),
          in order to "finish" his initiations
          with Rebazar.

          Twit states, on page 71, about
          an experience with Rebazar (in
          1947) while sitting under a shade
          tree:

          "... when I was staying at the
          Ashram in ALLAHABAD which
          belonged to Sudar Singh...
          I'll say something here about
          Rebazar Tarzs... I THOUGHT
          that he had MANIFESTED himself
          because I just looked up and
          and there he was walking towards
          me... I FELT that he'd MANIFESTED
          himself because I had averted
          my eyes from the path which
          was directly in front of me, for
          just a matter of moments as
          anyone would do if they look
          around."

          Now, Why would Twit need to
          travel to India in his physical
          body a "second time" if Rebazar
          could "manifest" himself anywhere?

          Wasn't "Dialogues with the Master"
          dictated to Twit at night, in his
          bedroom, in the U.S., via Rebazar
          physically "manifesting" himself!

          See! It's all a bunch of lies and
          Klemp is part of it and the cover-up!

          But, then again, Klemp doesn't
          want to ruin the good thing he's
          got going on, and he certainly
          doesn't want to give up the power
          trip he's on. It's cool to have
          thousands of people bow down
          before you, to get giddy and nervous
          in your presence and thinking
          Harry's "Higher" than the "God"
          of all of the other religions on
          earth!

          Can Eckists see the irony of,
          "My God is Bigger Than Yours!"


          prometheus wrote:

          Hello Sharon and All,
          Yes, Paul does truly reveal himself
          in this book. His negative attitude
          and subversiveness, while in the
          Navy during WWII, was a real eye-
          opener! I can see why Klemp and
          Company don't want this book
          reprinted... WOW!

          After all, in June, 1971 when
          Twitch was recounting these
          earlier experiences (that were
          later placed into this book) Paul
          was the "Full" Mahanta, and
          didn't have any problem with
          nor find any fault with his
          past behaviours. He had no
          regrets about it! To Twitchell
          the Navy was a joke and he
          was going to have some sport
          with them (manipulate them)
          and take it easy while they miss-
          placed his paperwork due, in
          part, to his passive/aggressive
          attitude toward "superior officers."

          PT: "... on setting my mind on
          something, it was going to work
          exactly my way. If I got into the
          service, I wasn't going to be
          bothered with this sort of thing,
          of going out there on the front
          line and fighting. I was going to
          find myself a nice, comfortable
          berth someplace and be kept
          there."

          "I found out so many times in
          dealing with thousands of people,
          that they never knew this. And
          this is one of the Acts of Power
          that all the Dictators and everybody
          else had found, BUT I was using
          it in My way and Not using it as
          a control over a great number of
          people, EXCEPT to keep Myself
          out of positions of danger."

          "... the higher echelon, or the
          superior officers, were always
          having a rough time with me
          because I never acted in accordance
          to what they expected of their
          enlisted personnel. I could block
          them and create all sorts of
          frustrations and problems for
          them which they never knew
          was happening, or they never
          laid the CAUSE to me. I could
          get the papers fumbled up on
          myself until one time they got
          me lost! ... this sort of thing
          had created a vacuum which
          I had set out to do, to create
          the confusion, and I was 'lost'
          between battalions."

          "... sometimes I'd go downtown,
          and sometimesI'd go to the
          canteen on the base, or I'd
          sleep or do something."

          "Well, life became sort of a
          'don't care' --happy-go-lucky--
          Easy Way of living sort of thing
          and everybody was having a big
          laugh, and all that sort of thing.
          So then I decided that I had to
          be an officer..."

          "I knew that if anybody was Never
          physically fit for sea duty, that
          was me, because Psychologically
          I didn't want to get shot at. So
          I set the wheels in motion Behind
          The Scenes and the first thing
          I did, I went over to see the man
          who swore in new officers... which
          should have been the last thing
          on the list of doing. So he swore
          me in and there was nothing that
          they could do about it because
          I flunked my physical examination;
          I got out of most of them, but I
          flunked what I did take and made
          them awfully mad, but they says,
          'I don't know what to do.' ... And
          instead of going to sea, they started
          me in a training school..."

          "And all of this thing was in motion
          working for me, this Behind The Scene
          thing that I was talking about that
          I had learned to control my own
          destiny." [pgs. 52-57]

          Thus, we can see how a ConMan
          like Twit thinks and behaves even
          during wartime. It's all about him
          and having an angle. And, is it a
          coincidence that Twit mentions
          the term "Behind the Scenes" twice
          and that Klemp has a section on
          Eckankar.org that is titled "Behind
          the Scenes" with Paul Twitchell.

          BTW- Here are excerpts from the
          MR. ECK story (pgs. 94-96):

          "... I was on a parking lot getting
          ready to pull out, when some gentleman,
          long, lanky, looked like he had been
          dried up like a bean pole and a little
          hat on his head, rushed over and
          viewed my license plate which had
          nothing but 'ECK' on it; that is all,
          no numbers or anything. And he says,
          'Are you Mr. ECK?' And I very cautiously
          answered him, 'Why, yes, of course.'
          Which meaning, that of course as the
          MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master,
          I'm Mr. ECK, yes. He says, 'Y'know,
          I married... or rather my wife's maiden
          name was ECK, Amy ECK.' I says, 'Well,
          isn't that wonderful!' He says, 'Yes,
          it is.'

          [So, since the Mahanta is the ECK
          Paul didn't really lie to this guy.
          See how Twitchell rationalizes
          and makes it all up as he goes
          along. BTW -I shortened the
          dialogue because Paul goes on
          and on.]


          "... He just went away in a very
          blurred manner, his mind was only
          thinking of the communication and
          the warm relationship that he had
          suddenly struck up with this stranger
          here who was actually in a way, kidding
          him...."

          "Well, this is one of the funny things
          about the Astral Plane and the Physical
          Plane because the Astral Plane will do
          a lot of this in the sense of Not, it's
          Not a Deceit or anything BUT it is arousing
          the emotions and the emotions overcome
          common sense on the intellectual side
          and we don't have any answer to give
          when somebody makes us recall an
          incident as what would be in this,
          projecting ourselves in the future to
          say what we would think of it."

          PT's comments in this book
          show the foundations of
          deceit behind Eckankar.

          I had a message that we
          need to 'let go and move
          on.' Well, I will when Eckists
          do! When those I helped to
          bring into the EK org. recognize
          the lies, quit, and move on
          then I will too!


          Prometheus


          brighttigress wrote:

          [Digest Number 1527]


          Good one, Prometheus!

          "Diff" is a great book because it
          reveals a lot about Twitch, in his
          own words. I really do think that
          subconsciously, Twitch wanted
          people to see that ekult was just
          one big scam, sort of a practical
          joke, and he wanted to be recognized
          for his criminal genius.

          I always thought his claims about
          the number of books he'd read were
          a gross exaggeration. It's humanly
          impossible. And his claims that he
          could "read" a book by sleeping on it -
          well, Edgar Cayce could do that, and
          Twitch stole the idea. Just like he
          referred to Cayce when he was caught
          giving the same expensive "eck-vidya"
          readings to the same people, and threw
          a bit of a Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention
          to the man behind the curtain" hissy-fit
          and told people he had "masterly" reasons
          for the duplicate readings that lowbies
          couldn't understand - and he whined
          that surely Cayce had made some mistakes
          in his "readings", too.

          I forget where Twitch wrote that he was
          going to rewrite history, but I remember
          posting the quote a long time ago. And,
          is it in "Diff" where Twitch writes about
          running into a derelict-type one night,
          who was looking for "Mr. Eck", and had
          that lightbulb moment and decided that
          *he* would be "Mr. Eck"?

          And the one where he's walking on the
          beach feeling sorry for himself and looking
          at his failed life....moaning & groaning
          "why me"....when aha, he realizes it's
          because he's been in training to become
          Master of the Universe!!

          Puh-leeze!!!

          If you read Twitch's own thoughts & words,
          and delete all the purloined "spiritual" stuff,
          he truly reveals himself.

          Hugs,

          Sharon

          Prometheus wrote:
          These quotes are from "Difficulties
          Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."

          Here's a 1971 comment from PT
          from page 28:

          "I knew that I myself was not the
          same as that child that was next
          to me. I knew that I was superior
          in my mentality, I knew that I was
          superior to the teacher in all my
          knowledge, in all my understanding."

          Here's what appeared earlier in
          the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic
          World article (page 244):

          "Paul does not appear to like the
          intellectual person. He says they
          are all the same, making elaborate
          little plans. They give fussy attention
          to small perfections and when something
          goes wrong because of their inborn
          blindness, they scream frantically
          for help from someone else to act
          in their behalf--to do something
          for them."

          Thus, it seems we have another PT
          contradiction or a self-loathing!

          BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the
          "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,
          ninth edition" is Paul (the original
          Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp
          via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof
          that Klemp Would Not have been
          Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!

          Here's more of what Paul has to say
          about his intellect and how to "read"
          books (pg. 30):

          "Anyway, this was one of the things
          I'm trying to show you that where
          I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,
          over these other people, and I got
          it in the way that I told you one time
          from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES
          READING THEM and sometimes it
          just came natural to me... This
          was a part of that which we call the
          mastership or the training of the
          ECK mastership."

          More on what Paul has to say about
          reading (pg. 98):

          "It is said now that a reader who is
          a good reader, who enjoys reading,
          can read 7,000 books a year normally.
          I have proven this out myself because
          when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT
          35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT
          I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD
          FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000
          BOOKS of every subject you can know
          which built me a background for a
          certain bit of the work I have today...
          when I was in Washington, D.C. for
          several years, I READ about 15,000
          books in the Congressional Library...
          in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000
          or something like that when I was
          there for one year in 1946."

          Well, as we can see Paul is Full of
          B.S. He sounds like the ConMan
          that he was and shows us that at
          the most he either "skimmed" these
          35,000 books, or is lying about
          this too! But, in any case he does
          show us how he created the
          "background" for Eckankar as
          "a certain bit of the work I have
          today."

          Here's more PT comments (1971)
          that tend to contradict the use of
          skim-reading and the sleeping on
          books for "chelas" with regard to
          The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):

          "They lack a good understanding
          as to what is taking place as they
          study these. Often they become
          entangled in trying to figure out
          a syntax, notice a typographical
          error, or READ QUICKLY FOR
          INFORMATION. They tie themselves
          up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,
          and other sorts of opinions and
          SOME READ QUICKLY and say,
          'There is nothing new in that.'

          This is nothing new because EKists,
          still, tend to fill-in the blanks with
          their imaginations when the info
          comes up short (too simple), is
          redundant, lacks details, and seems
          illogical (unbelievable, untrue).

          "The Second Factor is that the
          student who is in A HURRY FOR
          INFORMATION and engages in
          SPEED READING or JUMPS TO
          CONCLUSIONS on the basis of
          a few paragraphs HASTILY
          SCAMMED, misses the most
          important benefits of all."

          It's no wonder that Eckists
          still get confused with the
          "do as I say, not as I do"
          attitude and rules that all
          religious leaders use!

          BTW- What are "the most
          important benefits of all,"
          for the chela, that PT is
          mentioning in this last
          sentence? Aren't the Higher
          EK Initiations the most
          important benefits of all!

          Prometheus

          HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

          prometheus wrote:

          Hello Etznab and All,
          Or, we could look at "The" living
          "saviour" origin as well. I don't
          know! However, PT realized that
          people needed a living idol to adore
          and had this Mystic World article
          written in his behalf:

          "But few ever connect him up with
          being a holy man, the MAHANTA,
          the Living ECK Master. There is a
          need of the people to believe in
          the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul
          Twitchell knows this and acts out
          the part." [April-May-June 1971,
          Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
          pg. 250]

          However, in order to become a
          "Saviour" Paul had to have had
          a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The
          following comes from pages 251-
          253 of Difficulties of Becoming
          the Living ECK Master:

          "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...
          Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and
          Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss
          the birth of the coming Avatar
          for the Twentieth Century,
          Peddar Zaskq. Born in the
          Caucasian mountains during
          the seventeenth century...
          Given several years in the art
          of silence and Darkness he gained
          enlightenment in preparation
          for his return to the Twentieth
          Century. [HK should take note
          of this next statement] When
          the time came for his demise,
          he passed away still looking
          the same youthful appearance
          yet beyond the normal age of
          man....

          This time Peddar Zaskq was
          born on a Mississippi River
          packet enroute to New Orleans.
          The miraculous birth took place
          just below the city of Natchez,
          Mississippi just below a stock
          farm (manger)... There appeared
          a Blue Carnation in a vase on
          a night table by THE mother's
          bed... It was immediately
          arranged for him to be given
          a home in which to be raised.
          His foster parents raised him
          in a small southern river town
          [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted
          their name and became known
          as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]


          We, also, have Twit saying this
          as an excuse for his lies and self-
          promotion [pg. 126]:

          "So therefore we got to be, to
          place ourselves in the mainstream,
          which I hope I do and I have to say,
          unless I make myself a Historical
          Figure, the struggle of ECK for
          survival is useless. And the question
          of that comes up, well, why? Why
          do you make such a statement as
          that? Every man who sets out to
          do something in this world, unless
          he made himself a Historical Figure,
          then he never again is remembered
          except by a few when he passes."


          PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is
          on page 254 and comes from
          an article in The Mystic World
          July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:

          "The rest of his story is told in
          fragments of his first visit to
          Paris to be with his stepsister,
          who was in training to be an
          artist. It was here that he first
          met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,
          and followed him to India with
          his stepsister to study ECK..."

          More about "Paris" (Kentucky)
          from pages 38-40:

          "Later I would be able to go to
          Paris to see my sister who was
          studying art at one of the art
          studios Over There. She was
          under an instructor who had
          studied under Degas... who was
          a very famous portrait painter
          of the opera and the ballet during
          his day in PARIS."

          Thus, we can clearly see that Twit
          was lying and trying to deceive us
          into thinking this was Paris, France
          (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's
          including Degas in the story.

          "I suppose that that's where she
          got her ability to paint figures
          because she had COPIED Degas
          time and time again... Well, in
          living in Paris, I was quite happy
          at the time when I was OVER there
          with my SISTER, my stepsister,
          Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]

          "...we took advantage of this freedom,
          because for some reason the Europeans
          seemed to have an affection for young
          people, more than they had in the
          western countries, particularly at that
          time." [Here, PT has without a doubt
          connected-the-dots for us by saying
          that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]

          "We were just a few block away from
          Montmartre, where all the famous
          artists were living... Edgar Degas was
          the last that I knew of, Katie was very
          close to him because she was studying
          under one of his students." [Was Degas
          even living in this year? What a liar!]

          "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
          leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
          Paris we decided that we would go back
          to his little ashram, which was five miles
          above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
          Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
          (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

          "After I had left India, came home, I was
          then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
          do some work in order to finish my degree."
          [page 48]

          Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as
          Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16
          this was 1924. However, Klemp states
          on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)
          Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who
          in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and
          "twisting facts" and that he'd never
          traveled outside of the United States
          at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,
          as the M/LEM, lying about these events
          in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,
          France prior to 1965 and never traveled
          to India (from Paris) with his sister to
          meet Sudar Singh at age 16.

          Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:

          "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first
          set out in my first work, I'm having to go
          back and redo these things and try to
          correct them." [page 135]


          prometheus


          etznab wrote:

          Prometheus & All,

          Where and when do you suppose the idea
          of "The" Living Master first occurred in the
          records of history?

          Anybody want to hazard a guess about the
          time frame?

          How about the country?

          Etznab

          Hello Z and All,
          I agree that there is only One link
          up with the Divine. IMO it's not
          through a manmade religion or via
          their manmade initiations. It's an
          on-going series of private, personal,
          and subjective events/experiences
          with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
          group think/consciousness, although,
          we all have commonalities.

          No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
          any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
          out real/true initiations (denoting levels
          of spiritual consciousness) to others
          by saying this or that person deserves
          one while another doesn't.

          However, one has to understand how
          religion works. It's very competitive.
          It's almost like buying an insurance
          policy. The one that has the best
          word of mouth reputation via happy
          customers and advertises more, while
          having the best value and coverage
          for the cost, usually does well until
          it defaults due to too many claims
          that it can't cover. After a default
          or a hesitation on coverage of their
          promises (policy) the company
          (religion) can come across as an
          unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
          people will then start to shop
          around. However, if you're Self-
          insured you don't need to shop
          around...


          Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
          saying that Sat Nam will take over
          Soul's guidance upon receiving the
          5th initiation.

          In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
          1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
          is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
          EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
          "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
          the Power, the Light, flowing down
          and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
          GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."
          [pg. 183]

          If one is to take this literally it means
          that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
          Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
          many other religions acknowledge
          Sat Nam and have written of this
          entity in ancient text while PT, on
          the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
          competitor in 1969.

          See, once again we can see how
          religions compete with one another
          for members. Eckists need to be
          willing to stand back and take a
          detached look.

          As I said before... buying into a
          religion is like buying insurance...
          just don't trust that you can collect
          on their promises (in this lifetime)
          and read the exclusions (fine print).
          However, one should remember
          that in the Free World one doesn't
          need to buy/have a religion. It's
          not the law!

          Prometheus


          zephrendhun wrote:

          Well said Promethius!

          But then again as I have said,
          there really is only one link up
          or one true initiation.

          IMO, all other initiations are
          EK ankar's way of maintaining
          'customer base'.

          The God Realized state can only
          be achieved through diligence
          by the chela to establish a one on
          one relationship with Divine Source.

          Strange though, I seem to remember
          reading somewhere in the works
          of ECK that after the chela reaches
          the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
          takes over looking after the chela
          and his journey into God Consciousness.
          I may be wrong, but I do believe
          I saw this somewhere in Paul's
          writings.

          Fashji

          prometheus wrote:

          Klemp doesn't deliver on any
          real promises does he? Why
          hasn't Klemp speeded up the
          ECK initiations so that the
          promise of God-Realization
          in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?

          Why were the EK initiations
          "slowed down" in the first
          place? Wasn't HK claiming
          the initiations were "slowed
          down" because of Darwin's
          past involvement with promoting
          500 EKists to the 5th before
          he was excommunicated? So,
          what's been the excuse since
          Klemp guided them to become
          real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
          these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
          have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
          or 8th initiations! Klemp has
          been using this as an excuse
          Not to promote for all of these
          years! This is subterfuge!

          Where's the Master's promise
          of "protection" to chelas too?
          Instead, the excuse is that it's
          a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
          or Karma and maybe a minor
          "test" for chelas (lower initiates).

          Here's a quote from HK's
          Eckankar Lexicon:

          "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
          of GOD-REALIZATION where
          Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
          the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
          is of a thousand violins; the
          word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
          SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
          the first realm created that
          IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
          and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
          [page. 91]

          Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
          "Entities" "Generally Reach
          and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
          via the 8th Initiation.

          BTW- Who are these "Beings"
          and "Entities" that the 8th
          Plane is "Available To?"

          Notice that HK states that
          Soul "Generally Reaches" the
          "8th Plane." Does that include
          all Souls, or just those paying
          that Annual ECKankar Membership
          Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
          it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
          doesn't require an EK Membership
          I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
          for the public too. One has to
          assume that HK is speaking "in
          general" terms and that this includes
          all Souls, Beings, and Entities
          whoever or whatever they are!

          Yes, who are these "Beings" and
          "Entities" that Klemp is including?

          However, since ECKists are special
          since they have a "Mahanta" why is
          it that they aren't growing by leaps
          and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
          Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
          what? IMO it's another Catch-22
          "Test!"

          Really! Let's think about it.
          Why hasn't Klemp handed
          out more 8th Initiations? By
          my guesstimate there should
          be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
          by now!

          I know that this figure sounds
          inflated and even impossible!
          Most Eckists would be shocked
          to see such a high number and
          would immediately discount and
          deny that such a high number
          would be possible. Maybe some
          H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
          or just say Haw! But, think about
          it for awhile. Let it sink in and
          consider the possibility. Hasn't
          the Consciousness of ECKists,
          and Eckankar as a group, expanded
          or "evolved" to the point where
          there should be 3,000 8th Plane
          Initiates?

          Reread the above definition for
          HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
          Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
          Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
          Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
          this:

          "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
          God-Realization where Soul
          learns God-knowledge, the
          eighth plane." [pg. 62]

          Thus Klemp added the following
          to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
          in his 1998 EK Lexicon:

          "The sound is of a thousand
          violins; the word is Aluk.
          HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
          REACHES; the first realm created
          that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
          SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

          Anyway, isn't one of the big
          promises of Eckankar that of
          reaching Spiritual Freedom and
          Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
          via the ECK Initiations that are
          seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
          Consciousness? Sure it is!

          So, where are all of those 8th
          Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
          and time is running out for him
          and others. He, or someone, needs
          to make restitution and keep those
          promises, at least, with the 8th
          Initiation which equates to God-
          Realization! Even if Klemp can't
          protect the health and well being
          of his, DG's and PT's initiates
          he could at least promote and
          give ECKists the 8th Initiation.

          If it's too much for Klemp (the
          LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
          he can designate some of the
          responsibility to Rebazar and
          the other EK Masters. Therefore,
          there really shouldn't be any more
          delays or excuses. Promote them
          now!

          Prometheus
          p.s. It's really too bad that there
          can't be an honest and open discussion
          about this. ECKists are instructed
          to "surrender" and "serve" with
          detachment and are to keep "silent"
          and not to "second guess" the LEM/
          Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
          have always maintained control
          over their followers? What does
          Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
          that he fears and this is why HK
          relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
          with their positions of authority,
          to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.

          ******
          Some European Countries
          Protect Their Citizens From
          the Cults of ECKankar and
          Scientology.

          I saw where the French office
          of the Church of Scientology
          sect got into trouble for fraud.

          Is it possible that Eckankar
          could be next? Apparently
          Eckankar and Scientology
          are listed as "sects/cults"
          in many European countries
          (France, Belgium, Germany,
          etc.). These sects, like Scientology
          and Eckankar, don't have the
          legal status of main stream
          religions, nor do they have
          the same benefits under their
          laws.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html


          The question is:

          What could be regarded as fraud?

          Would the Annual EK Membership
          Donation/Fee that promises
          enlightenment (God-Realization),
          via the 8th initiation for most
          Eckists in this lifetime, as well
          as, the "Protections" of the Master
          for all chelas (that never happens)
          be considered as Fraud? Klemp
          slowed these initiations down
          due to Darwin's involvement,
          but that's been a long time ago!

          Look at all of the ECKists
          who have died of or have
          contracted Cancer and other
          diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
          Master) promises them
          "Protection!"

          And, look at HK's "promises"
          to chelas and H.I.s involving
          God-Realization in this lifetime
          and yet he doesn't offer enough
          Higher Initiations to fullfil his
          promises! And, maintaining
          one's initiations is directly tied
          into the Annual EK Membership
          Donation Fee.

          Thus, the taking of money by
          Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
          Discourses and EK Memberships
          and the making of False Promises
          to chelas for this present lifetime
          constitutes Fraud even though
          this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
          religions to make false promises.
          However, it is unethical and
          amoral at the very least! It does
          give "hope" to the disillusioned,
          disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
          but isn't Eckankar supposed to
          be the best and highest path to
          help these Souls on earth, as well
          as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
          "promises" of the Master a reality
          in the physical instead of always
          being a KAL test or Karma?

          However, under most European
          Laws would this failure to deliver
          be considered to be fraudulent
          enough to be classified as a crime
          against the public? It seems so!

          It could be that under the laws
          of certain European countries that
          Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
          be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
          or former Eckist, decided to be
          refunded the sums of their Annual
          EK Membership Donation Fees,
          and Eckankar denied the refunds.

          Maybe some former or current
          German, French, and Belgium
          Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
          for a refund for the sum of their
          EK Memberships over the years!


          Will Eckankar follow Scientology?

          ******

          Here's an excerpt of the definition
          of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
          (1991):

          "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
          of truth for the purpose of inducing
          another in reliance upon it to part
          with some valuable thing belonging
          to him or to surrender a legal right...

          [A Required/Requested Annual
          Membership Donation $$$$$$]

          Elements of a cause of action for
          'fraud' include false representation
          of a present or past fact made by
          the defendant, action in reliance
          thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
          resulting to plaintiff from such
          misrepresentation... As distinguished
          from negligence, it is always
          positive, intentional. It comprises
          all acts, omissions, and concealments
          involving a breach of a legal or
          equitable duty and resulting in
          damage to another. And includes
          anything calculated to deceive,
          whether it be a single act or
          combination of circumstances...
          Fraud, as applied to contracts,
          is the cause of an error bearing
          on a material part of the contract,
          created or contained by artifice,
          with design to obtain some unjust
          advantage to one party, or to cause
          an inconvenience or loss to the other."


          Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
          fraud of misrepresentation since
          it doesn't deliver on the Higher
          Initiations ["omissions"] required
          to attain God-Realization! [Refer
          to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
          2, Chapter 12.]

          Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
          "contract" with his followers, but
          he only makes empty promises
          and does not fulfill his obligations,
          and yet he's ready and willing to take
          Eckists' hard earned money!

          And, let's look at Eckankar's
          "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
          plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
          to cover-up these facts.

          Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
          sects, and cults (unless proven to be
          guilty of higher crimes) basically have
          carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
          make false promises for money.

          What a scam! Eckists have been paying
          for their initiations for years but have
          been locked-out of those required for
          God-Realization!

          It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
          lead. However, in Belgium, France and
          Germany these cults and sects don't
          have the same protection as "religions"
          do. This is what the U.S. should have
          done 50 years ago!

          Prometheus
        • etznab@aol.com
          Do you have a page number where it mentions Sudar Singh had passed away by 1947? Etznab ... From: prometheus_973 To:
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 6, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Do you have a page number where it mentions
            Sudar Singh had passed away by 1947?

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 1:51 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: PT's "Difficulties Of
            Becoming The LEM"

             










            Here's some confusing info

            on Rebazar and PT's initiations,

            but first a look at how/where/

            when Paul studied and learned

            how to control the "group mind."



            "My life of Several Years in

            Washington D.C., was uneventful

            in the fact that I didn't do any-

            thing great. I didn't do anything

            wonderful..."



            [Paul was just a "normal" liar

            during his transitional period.]



            "I could come and go in the

            embassies fairly well as much

            as I wanted to and got to know

            people of this nature and to be

            able to study them, and find out

            that they were people who only

            had actually, a tremendous amount

            of knowledge about How Group

            Minds Work, How National Minds

            Work in a Country, and have a

            tremendous knowledge about

            relations, Human Relations."

            [pg. 68]



            See, how Paul is studying the

            "group mind" to find ways to

            control the masses. Sounds

            like what a Black Magician

            would do!



            Next is PT's Sudar and Rebazar

            story. Notice how it seems that

            Paul's making it all up as he

            goes along. He tends to backtrack

            some, exaggerates, or gets

            details and facts wrong. Lying

            takes much more effort than

            recounting the truth. Remember,

            too, this book was transcribed

            from audio interviews done

            circa June-July, 1971).



            "Well, anyway, in about 1947,

            it was right shortly after the

            Indians nation, India, received

            their freedom from England

            and then became a nation...

            I went over to Darjeeling...

            right on the Sikkim border...

            I went up there at the time

            after being over in Allahabad,

            and there wasn't much left

            there after SUDAR SINGH HAD

            PASSED AWAY.



            But then I went there and I'd

            been told that I would find the

            ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs, I've

            got something about that in

            one of my books, I think it's

            Introduction to ECK in which

            I have it. I told about meeting

            him up in that part of the world.



            I STAYED THERE FOR QUITE

            SOME TIME WITH HIM [Rebazar],

            SIX TO SEVEN MONTHS, BEING

            TAUGHT AND LEARNING THE

            WORKS OF ECK. And then I

            was told to come back because

            then I would start into the true

            works of ECKANKAR.



            Now, HE INITIATED ME THERE.

            I had already BEEN INITIATED

            BY SUDAR SINGH, THE SAME

            AS EVERYBODY ELSE, THE

            SECOND INITIATION.



            AND I GOT THE THIRD AND

            THE FOURTH. I WENT UP

            THROUGH about THE SEVENTH

            AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.



            Then he [Rebazar?] moved

            across over into Kashmir,

            up in the Hindu Kush Mountains,

            and later, BUT NOT ON THIS

            TRIP, I FOLLOWED HIM UP THERE

            AND I GOT THE FINISH OF MY

            INITIATIONS." [pgs. 70-71]



            Thus, Twitchell is claiming, in

            this 1971 Interview, that AFTER

            he was discharged from the Navy,

            in 1947, that he "physically"

            traveled to India and stayed with

            Rebazar for "SIX to SEVEN MONTHS"

            and was given the SEVENTH

            INITIATION by him. Klemp claims

            on Eckankar.org that PT "physically"

            returned to INDIA, a second time,

            to meet Rebazar in 1951.



            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html



            However, the timeline shows

            that Twitchell was a member

            of Swami Premananda's church

            from 1950-1955, and was a

            member of Kirpal Singh's Ruhani

            Satsang (and/or was associated

            with him) from 1955-1965.



            Of course, Paul was, also, a

            member of Scientology after

            he, supposedly, received the

            7th Initiation from Rebazar

            in 1947.



            Even Klemp admits that there

            was still a connection with Kirpal

            Singh involving PT's The Tiger's

            Fang manuscript and a falling

            out with Kirpal.



            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html



            Also, isn't it strange that Klemp

            mentions Kirpal's name about

            15 times and 970th LEM Sudar's

            name about 4 times in this info

            "Behind the Scenes with Paul

            Twitchell!"



            However, How could Paul have

            gotten the 7th Initiation from

            Rebazar, in India, in 1947 and

            then become an initiate of Kirpal

            Singh during the timeline of

            having written "The Tiger's Fang?"

            Kirpal returned the manuscript

            to Paul circa 1966.



            Plus, Kirpal initiated Paul in

            1955 on his first visit to the

            U.S. and Gail was initiated

            by Kirpal on his next visit

            to the U.S.! Why would Paul

            want an initiation by Kirpal,

            in 1955, if PT was a 7th

            Initiate in Eckankar in 1947

            and a 12th (finished) in 1951?



            Thus, we have another reason

            as to why Klemp and Company

            doesn't want this "historic"

            document reprinted!



            Also, why did Paul need to

            "PHYSICALLY RETURN" to India

            and climb the Hindu Kush Mountains

            to revisit Rebazar, after receiving

            the SEVENTH INITIATION (in 1947),

            in order to "finish" his initiations

            with Rebazar.



            Twit states, on page 71, about

            an experience with Rebazar (in

            1947) while sitting under a shade

            tree:



            "... when I was staying at the

            Ashram in ALLAHABAD which

            belonged to Sudar Singh...

            I'll say something here about

            Rebazar Tarzs... I THOUGHT

            that he had MANIFESTED himself

            because I just looked up and

            and there he was walking towards

            me... I FELT that he'd MANIFESTED

            himself because I had averted

            my eyes from the path which

            was directly in front of me, for

            just a matter of moments as

            anyone would do if they look

            around."



            Now, Why would Twit need to

            travel to India in his physical

            body a "second time" if Rebazar

            could "manifest" himself anywhere?



            Wasn't "Dialogues with the Master"

            dictated to Twit at night, in his

            bedroom, in the U.S., via Rebazar

            physically "manifesting" himself!



            See! It's all a bunch of lies and

            Klemp is part of it and the cover-up!



            But, then again, Klemp doesn't

            want to ruin the good thing he's

            got going on, and he certainly

            doesn't want to give up the power

            trip he's on. It's cool to have

            thousands of people bow down

            before you, to get giddy and nervous

            in your presence and thinking

            Harry's "Higher" than the "God"

            of all of the other religions on

            earth!



            Can Eckists see the irony of,

            "My God is Bigger Than Yours!"



            prometheus wrote:



            Hello Sharon and All,

            Yes, Paul does truly reveal himself

            in this book. His negative attitude

            and subversiveness, while in the

            Navy during WWII, was a real eye-

            opener! I can see why Klemp and

            Company don't want this book

            reprinted... WOW!



            After all, in June, 1971 when

            Twitch was recounting these

            earlier experiences (that were

            later placed into this book) Paul

            was the "Full" Mahanta, and

            didn't have any problem with

            nor find any fault with his

            past behaviours. He had no

            regrets about it! To Twitchell

            the Navy was a joke and he

            was going to have some sport

            with them (manipulate them)

            and take it easy while they miss-

            placed his paperwork due, in

            part, to his passive/aggressive

            attitude toward "superior officers."



            PT: "... on setting my mind on

            something, it was going to work

            exactly my way. If I got into the

            service, I wasn't going to be

            bothered with this sort of thing,

            of going out there on the front

            line and fighting. I was going to

            find myself a nice, comfortable

            berth someplace and be kept

            there."



            "I found out so many times in

            dealing with thousands of people,

            that they never knew this. And

            this is one of the Acts of Power

            that all the Dictators and everybody

            else had found, BUT I was using

            it in My way and Not using it as

            a control over a great number of

            people, EXCEPT to keep Myself

            out of positions of danger."



            "... the higher echelon, or the

            superior officers, were always

            having a rough time with me

            because I never acted in accordance

            to what they expected of their

            enlisted personnel. I could block

            them and create all sorts of

            frustrations and problems for

            them which they never knew

            was happening, or they never

            laid the CAUSE to me. I could

            get the papers fumbled up on

            myself until one time they got

            me lost! ... this sort of thing

            had created a vacuum which

            I had set out to do, to create

            the confusion, and I was 'lost'

            between battalions."



            "... sometimes I'd go downtown,

            and sometimesI'd go to the

            canteen on the base, or I'd

            sleep or do something."



            "Well, life became sort of a

            'don't care' --happy-go-lucky--

            Easy Way of living sort of thing

            and everybody was having a big

            laugh, and all that sort of thing.

            So then I decided that I had to

            be an officer..."



            "I knew that if anybody was Never

            physically fit for sea duty, that

            was me, because Psychologically

            I didn't want to get shot at. So

            I set the wheels in motion Behind

            The Scenes and the first thing

            I did, I went over to see the man

            who swore in new officers... which

            should have been the last thing

            on the list of doing. So he swore

            me in and there was nothing that

            they could do about it because

            I flunked my physical examination;

            I got out of most of them, but I

            flunked what I did take and made

            them awfully mad, but they says,

            'I don't know what to do.' ... And

            instead of going to sea, they started

            me in a training school..."



            "And all of this thing was in motion

            working for me, this Behind The Scene

            thing that I was talking about that

            I had learned to control my own

            destiny." [pgs. 52-57]



            Thus, we can see how a ConMan

            like Twit thinks and behaves even

            during wartime. It's all about him

            and having an angle. And, is it a

            coincidence that Twit mentions

            the term "Behind the Scenes" twice

            and that Klemp has a section on

            Eckankar.org that is titled "Behind

            the Scenes" with Paul Twitchell.



            BTW- Here are excerpts from the

            MR. ECK story (pgs. 94-96):



            "... I was on a parking lot getting

            ready to pull out, when some gentleman,

            long, lanky, looked like he had been

            dried up like a bean pole and a little

            hat on his head, rushed over and

            viewed my license plate which had

            nothing but 'ECK' on it; that is all,

            no numbers or anything. And he says,

            'Are you Mr. ECK?' And I very cautiously

            answered him, 'Why, yes, of course.'

            Which meaning, that of course as the

            MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master,

            I'm Mr. ECK, yes. He says, 'Y'know,

            I married... or rather my wife's maiden

            name was ECK, Amy ECK.' I says, 'Well,

            isn't that wonderful!' He says, 'Yes,

            it is.'



            [So, since the Mahanta is the ECK

            Paul didn't really lie to this guy.

            See how Twitchell rationalizes

            and makes it all up as he goes

            along. BTW -I shortened the

            dialogue because Paul goes on

            and on.]



            "... He just went away in a very

            blurred manner, his mind was only

            thinking of the communication and

            the warm relationship that he had

            suddenly struck up with this stranger

            here who was actually in a way, kidding

            him...."



            "Well, this is one of the funny things

            about the Astral Plane and the Physical

            Plane because the Astral Plane will do

            a lot of this in the sense of Not, it's

            Not a Deceit or anything BUT it is arousing

            the emotions and the emotions overcome

            common sense on the intellectual side

            and we don't have any answer to give

            when somebody makes us recall an

            incident as what would be in this,

            projecting ourselves in the future to

            say what we would think of it."



            PT's comments in this book

            show the foundations of

            deceit behind Eckankar.



            I had a message that we

            need to 'let go and move

            on.' Well, I will when Eckists

            do! When those I helped to

            bring into the EK org. recognize

            the lies, quit, and move on

            then I will too!



            Prometheus



            brighttigress wrote:



            [Digest Number 1527]



            Good one, Prometheus!



            "Diff" is a great book because it

            reveals a lot about Twitch, in his

            own words. I really do think that

            subconsciously, Twitch wanted

            people to see that ekult was just

            one big scam, sort of a practical

            joke, and he wanted to be recognized

            for his criminal genius.



            I always thought his claims about

            the number of books he'd read were

            a gross exaggeration. It's humanly

            impossible. And his claims that he

            could "read" a book by sleeping on it -

            well, Edgar Cayce could do that, and

            Twitch stole the idea. Just like he

            referred to Cayce when he was caught

            giving the same expensive "eck-vidya"

            readings to the same people, and threw

            a bit of a Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention

            to the man behind the curtain" hissy-fit

            and told people he had "masterly" reasons

            for the duplicate readings that lowbies

            couldn't understand - and he whined

            that surely Cayce had made some mistakes

            in his "readings", too.



            I forget where Twitch wrote that he was

            going to rewrite history, but I remember

            posting the quote a long time ago. And,

            is it in "Diff" where Twitch writes about

            running into a derelict-type one night,

            who was looking for "Mr. Eck", and had

            that lightbulb moment and decided that

            *he* would be "Mr. Eck"?



            And the one where he's walking on the

            beach feeling sorry for himself and looking

            at his failed life....moaning & groaning

            "why me"....when aha, he realizes it's

            because he's been in training to become

            Master of the Universe!!



            Puh-leeze!!!



            If you read Twitch's own thoughts & words,

            and delete all the purloined "spiritual" stuff,

            he truly reveals himself.



            Hugs,



            Sharon



            Prometheus wrote:

            These quotes are from "Difficulties

            Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."



            Here's a 1971 comment from PT

            from page 28:



            "I knew that I myself was not the

            same as that child that was next

            to me. I knew that I was superior

            in my mentality, I knew that I was

            superior to the teacher in all my

            knowledge, in all my understanding."



            Here's what appeared earlier in

            the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic

            World article (page 244):



            "Paul does not appear to like the

            intellectual person. He says they

            are all the same, making elaborate

            little plans. They give fussy attention

            to small perfections and when something

            goes wrong because of their inborn

            blindness, they scream frantically

            for help from someone else to act

            in their behalf--to do something

            for them."



            Thus, it seems we have another PT

            contradiction or a self-loathing!



            BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the

            "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,

            ninth edition" is Paul (the original

            Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp

            via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof

            that Klemp Would Not have been

            Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!



            Here's more of what Paul has to say

            about his intellect and how to "read"

            books (pg. 30):



            "Anyway, this was one of the things

            I'm trying to show you that where

            I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,

            over these other people, and I got

            it in the way that I told you one time

            from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES

            READING THEM and sometimes it

            just came natural to me... This

            was a part of that which we call the

            mastership or the training of the

            ECK mastership."



            More on what Paul has to say about

            reading (pg. 98):



            "It is said now that a reader who is

            a good reader, who enjoys reading,

            can read 7,000 books a year normally.

            I have proven this out myself because

            when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT

            35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT

            I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD

            FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000

            BOOKS of every subject you can know

            which built me a background for a

            certain bit of the work I have today...

            when I was in Washington, D.C. for

            several years, I READ about 15,000

            books in the Congressional Library...

            in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000

            or something like that when I was

            there for one year in 1946."



            Well, as we can see Paul is Full of

            B.S. He sounds like the ConMan

            that he was and shows us that at

            the most he either "skimmed" these

            35,000 books, or is lying about

            this too! But, in any case he does

            show us how he created the

            "background" for Eckankar as

            "a certain bit of the work I have

            today."



            Here's more PT comments (1971)

            that tend to contradict the use of

            skim-reading and the sleeping on

            books for "chelas" with regard to

            The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):



            "They lack a good understanding

            as to what is taking place as they

            study these. Often they become

            entangled in trying to figure out

            a syntax, notice a typographical

            error, or READ QUICKLY FOR

            INFORMATION. They tie themselves

            up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,

            and other sorts of opinions and

            SOME READ QUICKLY and say,

            'There is nothing new in that.'



            This is nothing new because EKists,

            still, tend to fill-in the blanks with

            their imaginations when the info

            comes up short (too simple), is

            redundant, lacks details, and seems

            illogical (unbelievable, untrue).



            "The Second Factor is that the

            student who is in A HURRY FOR

            INFORMATION and engages in

            SPEED READING or JUMPS TO

            CONCLUSIONS on the basis of

            a few paragraphs HASTILY

            SCAMMED, misses the most

            important benefits of all."



            It's no wonder that Eckists

            still get confused with the

            "do as I say, not as I do"

            attitude and rules that all

            religious leaders use!



            BTW- What are "the most

            important benefits of all,"

            for the chela, that PT is

            mentioning in this last

            sentence? Aren't the Higher

            EK Initiations the most

            important benefits of all!



            Prometheus



            HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!



            prometheus wrote:



            Hello Etznab and All,

            Or, we could look at "The" living

            "saviour" origin as well. I don't

            know! However, PT realized that

            people needed a living idol to adore

            and had this Mystic World article

            written in his behalf:



            "But few ever connect him up with

            being a holy man, the MAHANTA,

            the Living ECK Master. There is a

            need of the people to believe in

            the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul

            Twitchell knows this and acts out

            the part." [April-May-June 1971,

            Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,

            pg. 250]



            However, in order to become a

            "Saviour" Paul had to have had

            a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The

            following comes from pages 251-

            253 of Difficulties of Becoming

            the Living ECK Master:



            "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...

            Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and

            Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss

            the birth of the coming Avatar

            for the Twentieth Century,

            Peddar Zaskq. Born in the

            Caucasian mountains during

            the seventeenth century...

            Given several years in the art

            of silence and Darkness he gained

            enlightenment in preparation

            for his return to the Twentieth

            Century. [HK should take note

            of this next statement] When

            the time came for his demise,

            he passed away still looking

            the same youthful appearance

            yet beyond the normal age of

            man....



            This time Peddar Zaskq was

            born on a Mississippi River

            packet enroute to New Orleans.

            The miraculous birth took place

            just below the city of Natchez,

            Mississippi just below a stock

            farm (manger)... There appeared

            a Blue Carnation in a vase on

            a night table by THE mother's

            bed... It was immediately

            arranged for him to be given

            a home in which to be raised.

            His foster parents raised him

            in a small southern river town

            [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted

            their name and became known

            as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]



            We, also, have Twit saying this

            as an excuse for his lies and self-

            promotion [pg. 126]:



            "So therefore we got to be, to

            place ourselves in the mainstream,

            which I hope I do and I have to say,

            unless I make myself a Historical

            Figure, the struggle of ECK for

            survival is useless. And the question

            of that comes up, well, why? Why

            do you make such a statement as

            that? Every man who sets out to

            do something in this world, unless

            he made himself a Historical Figure,

            then he never again is remembered

            except by a few when he passes."



            PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is

            on page 254 and comes from

            an article in The Mystic World

            July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:



            "The rest of his story is told in

            fragments of his first visit to

            Paris to be with his stepsister,

            who was in training to be an

            artist. It was here that he first

            met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,

            and followed him to India with

            his stepsister to study ECK..."



            More about "Paris" (Kentucky)

            from pages 38-40:



            "Later I would be able to go to

            Paris to see my sister who was

            studying art at one of the art

            studios Over There. She was

            under an instructor who had

            studied under Degas... who was

            a very famous portrait painter

            of the opera and the ballet during

            his day in PARIS."



            Thus, we can clearly see that Twit

            was lying and trying to deceive us

            into thinking this was Paris, France

            (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's

            including Degas in the story.



            "I suppose that that's where she

            got her ability to paint figures

            because she had COPIED Degas

            time and time again... Well, in

            living in Paris, I was quite happy

            at the time when I was OVER there

            with my SISTER, my stepsister,

            Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]



            "...we took advantage of this freedom,

            because for some reason the Europeans

            seemed to have an affection for young

            people, more than they had in the

            western countries, particularly at that

            time." [Here, PT has without a doubt

            connected-the-dots for us by saying

            that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]



            "We were just a few block away from

            Montmartre, where all the famous

            artists were living... Edgar Degas was

            the last that I knew of, Katie was very

            close to him because she was studying

            under one of his students." [Was Degas

            even living in this year? What a liar!]



            "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the

            leading advocate of Soul Travel. From

            Paris we decided that we would go back

            to his little ashram, which was five miles

            above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old

            Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France

            (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]



            "After I had left India, came home, I was

            then about sixteen. I had a year or so to

            do some work in order to finish my degree."

            [page 48]



            Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as

            Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16

            this was 1924. However, Klemp states

            on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)

            Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who

            in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and

            "twisting facts" and that he'd never

            traveled outside of the United States

            at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,

            as the M/LEM, lying about these events

            in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,

            France prior to 1965 and never traveled

            to India (from Paris) with his sister to

            meet Sudar Singh at age 16.



            Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:



            "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first

            set out in my first work, I'm having to go

            back and redo these things and try to

            correct them." [page 135]



            prometheus



            etznab wrote:



            Prometheus & All,



            Where and when do you suppose the idea

            of "The" Living Master first occurred in the

            records of history?



            Anybody want to hazard a guess about the

            time frame?



            How about the country?



            Etznab



            Hello Z and All,

            I agree that there is only One link

            up with the Divine. IMO it's not

            through a manmade religion or via

            their manmade initiations. It's an

            on-going series of private, personal,

            and subjective events/experiences

            with the Holy Spirit that excludes a

            group think/consciousness, although,

            we all have commonalities.



            No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor

            any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole

            out real/true initiations (denoting levels

            of spiritual consciousness) to others

            by saying this or that person deserves

            one while another doesn't.



            However, one has to understand how

            religion works. It's very competitive.

            It's almost like buying an insurance

            policy. The one that has the best

            word of mouth reputation via happy

            customers and advertises more, while

            having the best value and coverage

            for the cost, usually does well until

            it defaults due to too many claims

            that it can't cover. After a default

            or a hesitation on coverage of their

            promises (policy) the company

            (religion) can come across as an

            unsafe investment (scam). Thus,

            people will then start to shop

            around. However, if you're Self-

            insured you don't need to shop

            around...



            Yes, I too seem to remember Twit

            saying that Sat Nam will take over

            Soul's guidance upon receiving the

            5th initiation.



            In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,

            1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam

            is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's

            EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is

            "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;

            the Power, the Light, flowing down

            and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,

            GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."

            [pg. 183]



            If one is to take this literally it means

            that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner

            Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,

            many other religions acknowledge

            Sat Nam and have written of this

            entity in ancient text while PT, on

            the other hand, created his "Mahanta"

            competitor in 1969.



            See, once again we can see how

            religions compete with one another

            for members. Eckists need to be

            willing to stand back and take a

            detached look.



            As I said before... buying into a

            religion is like buying insurance...

            just don't trust that you can collect

            on their promises (in this lifetime)

            and read the exclusions (fine print).

            However, one should remember

            that in the Free World one doesn't

            need to buy/have a religion. It's

            not the law!



            Prometheus



            zephrendhun wrote:



            Well said Promethius!



            But then again as I have said,

            there really is only one link up

            or one true initiation.



            IMO, all other initiations are

            EK ankar's way of maintaining

            'customer base'.



            The God Realized state can only

            be achieved through diligence

            by the chela to establish a one on

            one relationship with Divine Source.



            Strange though, I seem to remember

            reading somewhere in the works

            of ECK that after the chela reaches

            the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam

            takes over looking after the chela

            and his journey into God Consciousness.

            I may be wrong, but I do believe

            I saw this somewhere in Paul's

            writings.



            Fashji



            prometheus wrote:



            Klemp doesn't deliver on any

            real promises does he? Why

            hasn't Klemp speeded up the

            ECK initiations so that the

            promise of God-Realization

            in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?



            Why were the EK initiations

            "slowed down" in the first

            place? Wasn't HK claiming

            the initiations were "slowed

            down" because of Darwin's

            past involvement with promoting

            500 EKists to the 5th before

            he was excommunicated? So,

            what's been the excuse since

            Klemp guided them to become

            real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting

            these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't

            have affected the 6ths, 7ths,

            or 8th initiations! Klemp has

            been using this as an excuse

            Not to promote for all of these

            years! This is subterfuge!



            Where's the Master's promise

            of "protection" to chelas too?

            Instead, the excuse is that it's

            a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),

            or Karma and maybe a minor

            "test" for chelas (lower initiates).



            Here's a quote from HK's

            Eckankar Lexicon:



            "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane

            of GOD-REALIZATION where

            Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;

            the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound

            is of a thousand violins; the

            word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE

            SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;

            the first realm created that

            IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,

            and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

            [page. 91]



            Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and

            "Entities" "Generally Reach

            and Dwell" on this 8th Plane

            via the 8th Initiation.



            BTW- Who are these "Beings"

            and "Entities" that the 8th

            Plane is "Available To?"



            Notice that HK states that

            Soul "Generally Reaches" the

            "8th Plane." Does that include

            all Souls, or just those paying

            that Annual ECKankar Membership

            Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't

            it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon

            doesn't require an EK Membership

            I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's

            for the public too. One has to

            assume that HK is speaking "in

            general" terms and that this includes

            all Souls, Beings, and Entities

            whoever or whatever they are!



            Yes, who are these "Beings" and

            "Entities" that Klemp is including?



            However, since ECKists are special

            since they have a "Mahanta" why is

            it that they aren't growing by leaps

            and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?

            Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or

            what? IMO it's another Catch-22

            "Test!"



            Really! Let's think about it.

            Why hasn't Klemp handed

            out more 8th Initiations? By

            my guesstimate there should

            be at least 3,000 8th Initiates

            by now!



            I know that this figure sounds

            inflated and even impossible!

            Most Eckists would be shocked

            to see such a high number and

            would immediately discount and

            deny that such a high number

            would be possible. Maybe some

            H.I.s would give a nervous laugh

            or just say Haw! But, think about

            it for awhile. Let it sink in and

            consider the possibility. Hasn't

            the Consciousness of ECKists,

            and Eckankar as a group, expanded

            or "evolved" to the point where

            there should be 3,000 8th Plane

            Initiates?



            Reread the above definition for

            HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in

            Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar

            Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's

            Eckankar Dictionary PT stated

            this:



            "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of

            God-Realization where Soul

            learns God-knowledge, the

            eighth plane." [pg. 62]



            Thus Klemp added the following

            to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition

            in his 1998 EK Lexicon:



            "The sound is of a thousand

            violins; the word is Aluk.

            HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY

            REACHES; the first realm created

            that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,

            SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."



            Anyway, isn't one of the big

            promises of Eckankar that of

            reaching Spiritual Freedom and

            Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,

            via the ECK Initiations that are

            seen as "yardsticks" to Higher

            Consciousness? Sure it is!



            So, where are all of those 8th

            Initiations? Klemp is just selfish

            and time is running out for him

            and others. He, or someone, needs

            to make restitution and keep those

            promises, at least, with the 8th

            Initiation which equates to God-

            Realization! Even if Klemp can't

            protect the health and well being

            of his, DG's and PT's initiates

            he could at least promote and

            give ECKists the 8th Initiation.



            If it's too much for Klemp (the

            LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone

            he can designate some of the

            responsibility to Rebazar and

            the other EK Masters. Therefore,

            there really shouldn't be any more

            delays or excuses. Promote them

            now!



            Prometheus

            p.s. It's really too bad that there

            can't be an honest and open discussion

            about this. ECKists are instructed

            to "surrender" and "serve" with

            detachment and are to keep "silent"

            and not to "second guess" the LEM/

            Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions

            have always maintained control

            over their followers? What does

            Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"

            that he fears and this is why HK

            relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,

            with their positions of authority,

            to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.



            ******

            Some European Countries

            Protect Their Citizens From

            the Cults of ECKankar and

            Scientology.



            I saw where the French office

            of the Church of Scientology

            sect got into trouble for fraud.



            Is it possible that Eckankar

            could be next? Apparently

            Eckankar and Scientology

            are listed as "sects/cults"

            in many European countries

            (France, Belgium, Germany,

            etc.). These sects, like Scientology

            and Eckankar, don't have the

            legal status of main stream

            religions, nor do they have

            the same benefits under their

            laws.



            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html



            The question is:



            What could be regarded as fraud?



            Would the Annual EK Membership

            Donation/Fee that promises

            enlightenment (God-Realization),

            via the 8th initiation for most

            Eckists in this lifetime, as well

            as, the "Protections" of the Master

            for all chelas (that never happens)

            be considered as Fraud? Klemp

            slowed these initiations down

            due to Darwin's involvement,

            but that's been a long time ago!



            Look at all of the ECKists

            who have died of or have

            contracted Cancer and other

            diseases! Yet, Klemp (the

            Master) promises them

            "Protection!"



            And, look at HK's "promises"

            to chelas and H.I.s involving

            God-Realization in this lifetime

            and yet he doesn't offer enough

            Higher Initiations to fullfil his

            promises! And, maintaining

            one's initiations is directly tied

            into the Annual EK Membership

            Donation Fee.



            Thus, the taking of money by

            Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK

            Discourses and EK Memberships

            and the making of False Promises

            to chelas for this present lifetime

            constitutes Fraud even though

            this isn't illegal in the U.S. for

            religions to make false promises.

            However, it is unethical and

            amoral at the very least! It does

            give "hope" to the disillusioned,

            disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,

            but isn't Eckankar supposed to

            be the best and highest path to

            help these Souls on earth, as well

            as, in heaven? Why then aren't the

            "promises" of the Master a reality

            in the physical instead of always

            being a KAL test or Karma?



            However, under most European

            Laws would this failure to deliver

            be considered to be fraudulent

            enough to be classified as a crime

            against the public? It seems so!



            It could be that under the laws

            of certain European countries that

            Eckankar (a religious Sect) could

            be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,

            or former Eckist, decided to be

            refunded the sums of their Annual

            EK Membership Donation Fees,

            and Eckankar denied the refunds.



            Maybe some former or current

            German, French, and Belgium

            Eckists will consider asking Eckankar

            for a refund for the sum of their

            EK Memberships over the years!



            Will Eckankar follow Scientology?



            ******



            Here's an excerpt of the definition

            of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary

            (1991):



            "FRAUD. An intentional perversion

            of truth for the purpose of inducing

            another in reliance upon it to part

            with some valuable thing belonging

            to him or to surrender a legal right...



            [A Required/Requested Annual

            Membership Donation $$$$$$]



            Elements of a cause of action for

            'fraud' include false representation

            of a present or past fact made by

            the defendant, action in reliance

            thereupon by plaintiff, and damage

            resulting to plaintiff from such

            misrepresentation... As distinguished

            from negligence, it is always

            positive, intentional. It comprises

            all acts, omissions, and concealments

            involving a breach of a legal or

            equitable duty and resulting in

            damage to another. And includes

            anything calculated to deceive,

            whether it be a single act or

            combination of circumstances...

            Fraud, as applied to contracts,

            is the cause of an error bearing

            on a material part of the contract,

            created or contained by artifice,

            with design to obtain some unjust

            advantage to one party, or to cause

            an inconvenience or loss to the other."



            Thus, Eckankar has conducted a

            fraud of misrepresentation since

            it doesn't deliver on the Higher

            Initiations ["omissions"] required

            to attain God-Realization! [Refer

            to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book

            2, Chapter 12.]



            Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied

            "contract" with his followers, but

            he only makes empty promises

            and does not fulfill his obligations,

            and yet he's ready and willing to take

            Eckists' hard earned money!



            And, let's look at Eckankar's

            "concealment" regarding Twitchell's

            plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues

            to cover-up these facts.



            Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,

            sects, and cults (unless proven to be

            guilty of higher crimes) basically have

            carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can

            make false promises for money.



            What a scam! Eckists have been paying

            for their initiations for years but have

            been locked-out of those required for

            God-Realization!



            It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's

            lead. However, in Belgium, France and

            Germany these cults and sects don't

            have the same protection as "religions"

            do. This is what the U.S. should have

            done 50 years ago!



            Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Etznab and All, This is quite a long post, but it has interesting time- line info that proves both Twitchell and Klemp are liars! Here re the Timelines
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 7, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Etznab and All,
              This is quite a long post,
              but it has interesting time-
              line info that proves both
              Twitchell and Klemp are liars!

              Here're the Timelines from
              HK's "Behind the Scenes with
              Paul Twitchell" (on Eckankar.org)
              and from PT's audio interview
              "Difficulties Of Becoming the LEM"
              [DOBTLEM]:

              First, Klemp gives Twitchell's
              birthdate as 10/22/1908.

              *At age 16 (1924) PT claims to
              have traveled to Paris, France
              (where Montmartre is located)
              to visit his stepsister Kay-Dee
              (Katie) and then traveled to India
              to meet Sudar Singh.

              "We were just a few block away from
              Montmartre, where all the famous
              artists were living... Edgar Degas was
              the last that I knew of, Katie was very
              close to him because she was studying
              under one of his students." [Was Degas
              even living in this year? What a liar!]

              "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
              leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
              Paris we decided that we would go back
              to his little ashram, which was five miles
              above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
              Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
              (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

              "After I had left India, came home, I was
              then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
              do some work in order to finish my degree."
              [DOBTLEM, page 48]


              *Klemp claims, on Eckankar.org,
              that Twitchell at age 27 (1935) was
              'exaggerating' and 'twisting facts'
              to get into Who's Who in Kentucky
              and that PT had never traveled far
              from home. Thus, no trip to India,
              after Paris, to meet Sudar in 1924!

              BTW- Marman claims that Twit was
              actually visiting his stepsister in Paris,
              Kentucky versus Paris, France. However,
              it's obvious that Twitchell was referring
              to being in France versus Kentucky
              because he mentioned "Montmartre."
              Thus, it's clear that PT lied about traveling
              to India, after Paris, at age 16 (1924).

              *Twitchell states that he met
              Rebazar in 1947 on his "first"
              visit to India and that Kirpal
              Singh was dead, and that he
              received the 7th Initiation. by
              Rebazar." [DOBTLEM, pg. 70]

              *Klemp mentions that Twit met
              with Rebazar in 1951 on his
              "second" trip to India.

              *This "second" trip is when
              Twitchell claims to have
              "finished" his Initiations under
              Rebazar, thus, PT is basically
              saying he got the 12th from
              RT in 1951!

              *From 1950-1955 Twitchell
              was a chela of Swami Premananda.

              *From 1955-1965 Twitchell
              was initiated by Kirpal Singh
              (aka "Sudar" Singh) who was
              the spiritual leader and living
              Master of Ruhani Satsang. Kirpal
              died in 1974 (three years after
              Twitchell).

              *During this time frame PT
              was also associated with
              L. Ron and Scientology.

              *PT, also, had Gail initiated
              by Kirpal on his second visit
              to the U.S. around 1961 or
              1963 (I forget).

              *Kirpal returned Twitchell's
              "The Tiger's Fang" manuscript
              circa June, 1966 after a "falling
              out" centering around PT's
              'exaggerations' and the 'twisting
              of facts' involving Paul's
              travels/experiences to the
              inner planes. PT was trying
              to exalt himself to great
              heights in order to have Kirpal
              give him the authority to give
              initiations in the U.S. This
              "authority" would have given
              PT the validity he was seeking
              in order to break away from
              Kirpal and start his own sect
              of Ruhani Satsang.

              Prometheus


              etznab wrote:

              Do you have a page number where
              it mentions Sudar Singh had passed
              away by 1947?

              [P]- page 70

              Etznab


              Prometheus wrote:
              Here's some detailed info on
              Rebazar and PT's initiations,
              but first a look at how/where/
              when Paul studied and learned
              how to control the "group mind."

              "My life of Several Years in
              Washington D.C., was uneventful
              in the fact that I didn't do any-
              thing great. I didn't do anything
              wonderful..."

              [Paul was just a "normal" liar
              during his transitional period.]

              "I could come and go in the
              embassies fairly well as much
              as I wanted to and got to know
              people of this nature and to be
              able to study them, and find out
              that they were people who only
              had actually, a tremendous amount
              of knowledge about How Group
              Minds Work, How National Minds
              Work in a Country, and have a
              tremendous knowledge about
              relations, Human Relations."
              [pg. 68]


              See, how Paul is studying the
              "group mind" to find ways to
              control the masses. Sounds
              like what a Black Magician
              would do!

              Next is PT's Sudar and Rebazar
              story. Notice how it seems that
              Paul's making it all up as he
              goes along. He tends to backtrack
              some, exaggerates, or gets
              details and facts wrong. Lying
              takes much more effort than
              recounting the truth. Remember,
              too, this book was transcribed
              from audio interviews done
              circa June-July, 1971).



              "Well, anyway, in about 1947,
              it was right shortly after the
              Indians nation, India, received
              their freedom from England
              and then became a nation...
              I went over to Darjeeling...
              right on the Sikkim border...
              I went up there at the time
              after being over in Allahabad,
              and there wasn't much left
              there after SUDAR SINGH HAD
              PASSED AWAY.

              But then I went there and I'd
              been told that I would find the
              ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs, I've
              got something about that in
              one of my books, I think it's
              Introduction to ECK in which
              I have it. I told about meeting
              him up in that part of the world.

              I STAYED THERE FOR QUITE
              SOME TIME WITH HIM [Rebazar],
              SIX TO SEVEN MONTHS, BEING
              TAUGHT AND LEARNING THE
              WORKS OF ECK. And then I
              was told to come back because
              then I would start into the true
              works of ECKANKAR.

              Now, HE INITIATED ME THERE.
              I had already BEEN INITIATED
              BY SUDAR SINGH, THE SAME
              AS EVERYBODY ELSE, THE
              SECOND INITIATION.

              AND I GOT THE THIRD AND
              THE FOURTH. I WENT UP
              THROUGH about THE SEVENTH
              AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.

              Then he [Rebazar?] moved
              across over into Kashmir,
              up in the Hindu Kush Mountains,
              and later, BUT NOT ON THIS
              TRIP, I FOLLOWED HIM UP THERE
              AND I GOT THE FINISH OF MY
              INITIATIONS." [pgs. 70-71]



              Thus, Twitchell is claiming, in
              this 1971 Interview, that AFTER
              he was discharged from the Navy,
              in 1947, that he "physically"
              traveled to India and stayed with
              Rebazar for "SIX to SEVEN MONTHS"
              and was given the SEVENTH
              INITIATION by him. Klemp claims
              on Eckankar.org that PT "physically"
              returned to INDIA, a second time,
              to meet Rebazar in 1951.

              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html

              However, the timeline shows
              that Twitchell was a member
              of Swami Premananda's church
              from 1950-1955, and was a
              member of Kirpal Singh's Ruhani
              Satsang (and/or was associated
              with him) from 1955-1965.

              Of course, Paul was, also, a
              member of Scientology after
              he, supposedly, received the
              7th Initiation from Rebazar
              in 1947.

              Even Klemp admits that there
              was still a connection with Kirpal
              Singh involving PT's The Tiger's
              Fang manuscript and a falling
              out with Kirpal.

              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

              Also, isn't it strange that Klemp
              mentions Kirpal's name about
              15 times and 970th LEM Sudar's
              name about 4 times in this info
              "Behind the Scenes with Paul
              Twitchell!"

              However, How could Paul have
              gotten the 7th Initiation from
              Rebazar, in India, in 1947 and
              then become an initiate of Kirpal
              Singh during the timeline of
              having written "The Tiger's Fang?"
              Kirpal returned the manuscript
              to Paul circa 1966.

              Plus, Kirpal initiated Paul in
              1955 on his first visit to the
              U.S. and Gail was initiated
              by Kirpal on his next visit
              to the U.S.! Why would Paul
              want an initiation by Kirpal,
              in 1955, if PT was a 7th
              Initiate in Eckankar in 1947
              and a 12th (finished) in 1951?

              Thus, we have another reason
              as to why Klemp and Company
              doesn't want this "historic"
              document reprinted!

              Also, why did Paul need to
              "PHYSICALLY RETURN" to India
              and climb the Hindu Kush Mountains
              to revisit Rebazar, after receiving
              the SEVENTH INITIATION (in 1947),
              in order to "finish" his initiations
              with Rebazar.

              Twit states, on page 71, about
              an experience with Rebazar (in
              1947) while sitting under a shade
              tree:

              "... when I was staying at the
              Ashram in ALLAHABAD which
              belonged to Sudar Singh...
              I'll say something here about
              Rebazar Tarzs... I THOUGHT
              that he had MANIFESTED himself
              because I just looked up and
              and there he was walking towards
              me... I FELT that he'd MANIFESTED
              himself because I had averted
              my eyes from the path which
              was directly in front of me, for
              just a matter of moments as
              anyone would do if they look
              around."

              Now, Why would Twit need to
              travel to India in his physical
              body a "second time" if Rebazar
              could "manifest" himself anywhere?

              Wasn't "Dialogues with the Master"
              dictated to Twit at night, in his
              bedroom, in the U.S., via Rebazar
              physically "manifesting" himself!

              See! It's all a bunch of lies and
              Klemp is part of it and the cover-up!

              But, then again, Klemp doesn't
              want to ruin the good thing he's
              got going on, and he certainly
              doesn't want to give up the power
              trip he's on. It's cool to have
              thousands of people bow down
              before you, to get giddy and nervous
              in your presence and thinking
              Harry's "Higher" than the "God"
              of all of the other religions on
              earth!

              Can Eckists see the irony of,
              "My God is Bigger Than Yours!"


              prometheus wrote:

              Hello Sharon and All,
              Yes, Paul does truly reveal himself
              in this book. His negative attitude
              and subversiveness, while in the
              Navy during WWII, was a real eye-
              opener! I can see why Klemp and
              Company don't want this book
              reprinted... WOW!

              After all, in June, 1971 when
              Twitch was recounting these
              earlier experiences (that were
              later placed into this book) Paul
              was the "Full" Mahanta, and
              didn't have any problem with
              nor find any fault with his
              past behaviours. He had no
              regrets about it! To Twitchell
              the Navy was a joke and he
              was going to have some sport
              with them (manipulate them)
              and take it easy while they miss-
              placed his paperwork due, in
              part, to his passive/aggressive
              attitude toward "superior officers."

              PT: "... on setting my mind on
              something, it was going to work
              exactly my way. If I got into the
              service, I wasn't going to be
              bothered with this sort of thing,
              of going out there on the front
              line and fighting. I was going to
              find myself a nice, comfortable
              berth someplace and be kept
              there."

              "I found out so many times in
              dealing with thousands of people,
              that they never knew this. And
              this is one of the Acts of Power
              that all the Dictators and everybody
              else had found, BUT I was using
              it in My way and Not using it as
              a control over a great number of
              people, EXCEPT to keep Myself
              out of positions of danger."

              "... the higher echelon, or the
              superior officers, were always
              having a rough time with me
              because I never acted in accordance
              to what they expected of their
              enlisted personnel. I could block
              them and create all sorts of
              frustrations and problems for
              them which they never knew
              was happening, or they never
              laid the CAUSE to me. I could
              get the papers fumbled up on
              myself until one time they got
              me lost! ... this sort of thing
              had created a vacuum which
              I had set out to do, to create
              the confusion, and I was 'lost'
              between battalions."

              "... sometimes I'd go downtown,
              and sometimesI'd go to the
              canteen on the base, or I'd
              sleep or do something."

              "Well, life became sort of a
              'don't care' --happy-go-lucky--
              Easy Way of living sort of thing
              and everybody was having a big
              laugh, and all that sort of thing.
              So then I decided that I had to
              be an officer..."

              "I knew that if anybody was Never
              physically fit for sea duty, that
              was me, because Psychologically
              I didn't want to get shot at. So
              I set the wheels in motion Behind
              The Scenes and the first thing
              I did, I went over to see the man
              who swore in new officers... which
              should have been the last thing
              on the list of doing. So he swore
              me in and there was nothing that
              they could do about it because
              I flunked my physical examination;
              I got out of most of them, but I
              flunked what I did take and made
              them awfully mad, but they says,
              'I don't know what to do.' ... And
              instead of going to sea, they started
              me in a training school..."

              "And all of this thing was in motion
              working for me, this Behind The Scene
              thing that I was talking about that
              I had learned to control my own
              destiny." [pgs. 52-57]

              Thus, we can see how a ConMan
              like Twit thinks and behaves even
              during wartime. It's all about him
              and having an angle. And, is it a
              coincidence that Twit mentions
              the term "Behind the Scenes" twice
              and that Klemp has a section on
              Eckankar.org that is titled "Behind
              the Scenes" with Paul Twitchell.

              BTW- Here are excerpts from the
              MR. ECK story (pgs. 94-96):

              "... I was on a parking lot getting
              ready to pull out, when some gentleman,
              long, lanky, looked like he had been
              dried up like a bean pole and a little
              hat on his head, rushed over and
              viewed my license plate which had
              nothing but 'ECK' on it; that is all,
              no numbers or anything. And he says,
              'Are you Mr. ECK?' And I very cautiously
              answered him, 'Why, yes, of course.'
              Which meaning, that of course as the
              MAHANTA, the Living ECK Master,
              I'm Mr. ECK, yes. He says, 'Y'know,
              I married... or rather my wife's maiden
              name was ECK, Amy ECK.' I says, 'Well,
              isn't that wonderful!' He says, 'Yes,
              it is.'

              [So, since the Mahanta is the ECK
              Paul didn't really lie to this guy.
              See how Twitchell rationalizes
              and makes it all up as he goes
              along. BTW -I shortened the
              dialogue because Paul goes on
              and on.]


              "... He just went away in a very
              blurred manner, his mind was only
              thinking of the communication and
              the warm relationship that he had
              suddenly struck up with this stranger
              here who was actually in a way, kidding
              him...."

              "Well, this is one of the funny things
              about the Astral Plane and the Physical
              Plane because the Astral Plane will do
              a lot of this in the sense of Not, it's
              Not a Deceit or anything BUT it is arousing
              the emotions and the emotions overcome
              common sense on the intellectual side
              and we don't have any answer to give
              when somebody makes us recall an
              incident as what would be in this,
              projecting ourselves in the future to
              say what we would think of it."

              PT's comments in this book
              show the foundations of
              deceit behind Eckankar.

              I had a message that we
              need to 'let go and move
              on.' Well, I will when Eckists
              do! When those I helped to
              bring into the EK org. recognize
              the lies, quit, and move on
              then I will too!


              Prometheus


              brighttigress wrote:

              [Digest Number 1527]


              Good one, Prometheus!

              "Diff" is a great book because it
              reveals a lot about Twitch, in his
              own words. I really do think that
              subconsciously, Twitch wanted
              people to see that ekult was just
              one big scam, sort of a practical
              joke, and he wanted to be recognized
              for his criminal genius.

              I always thought his claims about
              the number of books he'd read were
              a gross exaggeration. It's humanly
              impossible. And his claims that he
              could "read" a book by sleeping on it -
              well, Edgar Cayce could do that, and
              Twitch stole the idea. Just like he
              referred to Cayce when he was caught
              giving the same expensive "eck-vidya"
              readings to the same people, and threw
              a bit of a Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention
              to the man behind the curtain" hissy-fit
              and told people he had "masterly" reasons
              for the duplicate readings that lowbies
              couldn't understand - and he whined
              that surely Cayce had made some mistakes
              in his "readings", too.

              I forget where Twitch wrote that he was
              going to rewrite history, but I remember
              posting the quote a long time ago. And,
              is it in "Diff" where Twitch writes about
              running into a derelict-type one night,
              who was looking for "Mr. Eck", and had
              that lightbulb moment and decided that
              *he* would be "Mr. Eck"?

              And the one where he's walking on the
              beach feeling sorry for himself and looking
              at his failed life....moaning & groaning
              "why me"....when aha, he realizes it's
              because he's been in training to become
              Master of the Universe!!

              Puh-leeze!!!

              If you read Twitch's own thoughts & words,
              and delete all the purloined "spiritual" stuff,
              he truly reveals himself.

              Hugs,

              Sharon

              Prometheus wrote:
              These quotes are from "Difficulties
              Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."

              Here's a 1971 comment from PT
              from page 28:

              "I knew that I myself was not the
              same as that child that was next
              to me. I knew that I was superior
              in my mentality, I knew that I was
              superior to the teacher in all my
              knowledge, in all my understanding."

              Here's what appeared earlier in
              the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic
              World article (page 244):

              "Paul does not appear to like the
              intellectual person. He says they
              are all the same, making elaborate
              little plans. They give fussy attention
              to small perfections and when something
              goes wrong because of their inborn
              blindness, they scream frantically
              for help from someone else to act
              in their behalf--to do something
              for them."

              Thus, it seems we have another PT
              contradiction or a self-loathing!

              BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the
              "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,
              ninth edition" is Paul (the original
              Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp
              via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof
              that Klemp Would Not have been
              Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!

              Here's more of what Paul has to say
              about his intellect and how to "read"
              books (pg. 30):

              "Anyway, this was one of the things
              I'm trying to show you that where
              I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,
              over these other people, and I got
              it in the way that I told you one time
              from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES
              READING THEM and sometimes it
              just came natural to me... This
              was a part of that which we call the
              mastership or the training of the
              ECK mastership."

              More on what Paul has to say about
              reading (pg. 98):

              "It is said now that a reader who is
              a good reader, who enjoys reading,
              can read 7,000 books a year normally.
              I have proven this out myself because
              when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT
              35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT
              I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD
              FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000
              BOOKS of every subject you can know
              which built me a background for a
              certain bit of the work I have today...
              when I was in Washington, D.C. for
              several years, I READ about 15,000
              books in the Congressional Library...
              in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000
              or something like that when I was
              there for one year in 1946."

              Well, as we can see Paul is Full of
              B.S. He sounds like the ConMan
              that he was and shows us that at
              the most he either "skimmed" these
              35,000 books, or is lying about
              this too! But, in any case he does
              show us how he created the
              "background" for Eckankar as
              "a certain bit of the work I have
              today."

              Here's more PT comments (1971)
              that tend to contradict the use of
              skim-reading and the sleeping on
              books for "chelas" with regard to
              The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):

              "They lack a good understanding
              as to what is taking place as they
              study these. Often they become
              entangled in trying to figure out
              a syntax, notice a typographical
              error, or READ QUICKLY FOR
              INFORMATION. They tie themselves
              up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,
              and other sorts of opinions and
              SOME READ QUICKLY and say,
              'There is nothing new in that.'

              This is nothing new because EKists,
              still, tend to fill-in the blanks with
              their imaginations when the info
              comes up short (too simple), is
              redundant, lacks details, and seems
              illogical (unbelievable, untrue).

              "The Second Factor is that the
              student who is in A HURRY FOR
              INFORMATION and engages in
              SPEED READING or JUMPS TO
              CONCLUSIONS on the basis of
              a few paragraphs HASTILY
              SCAMMED, misses the most
              important benefits of all."

              It's no wonder that Eckists
              still get confused with the
              "do as I say, not as I do"
              attitude and rules that all
              religious leaders use!

              BTW- What are "the most
              important benefits of all,"
              for the chela, that PT is
              mentioning in this last
              sentence? Aren't the Higher
              EK Initiations the most
              important benefits of all!

              Prometheus

              HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

              prometheus wrote:

              Hello Etznab and All,
              Or, we could look at "The" living
              "saviour" origin as well. I don't
              know! However, PT realized that
              people needed a living idol to adore
              and had this Mystic World article
              written in his behalf:

              "But few ever connect him up with
              being a holy man, the MAHANTA,
              the Living ECK Master. There is a
              need of the people to believe in
              the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul
              Twitchell knows this and acts out
              the part." [April-May-June 1971,
              Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
              pg. 250]

              However, in order to become a
              "Saviour" Paul had to have had
              a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The
              following comes from pages 251-
              253 of Difficulties of Becoming
              the Living ECK Master:

              "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...
              Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and
              Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss
              the birth of the coming Avatar
              for the Twentieth Century,
              Peddar Zaskq. Born in the
              Caucasian mountains during
              the seventeenth century...
              Given several years in the art
              of silence and Darkness he gained
              enlightenment in preparation
              for his return to the Twentieth
              Century. [HK should take note
              of this next statement] When
              the time came for his demise,
              he passed away still looking
              the same youthful appearance
              yet beyond the normal age of
              man....

              This time Peddar Zaskq was
              born on a Mississippi River
              packet enroute to New Orleans.
              The miraculous birth took place
              just below the city of Natchez,
              Mississippi just below a stock
              farm (manger)... There appeared
              a Blue Carnation in a vase on
              a night table by THE mother's
              bed... It was immediately
              arranged for him to be given
              a home in which to be raised.
              His foster parents raised him
              in a small southern river town
              [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted
              their name and became known
              as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]


              We, also, have Twit saying this
              as an excuse for his lies and self-
              promotion [pg. 126]:

              "So therefore we got to be, to
              place ourselves in the mainstream,
              which I hope I do and I have to say,
              unless I make myself a Historical
              Figure, the struggle of ECK for
              survival is useless. And the question
              of that comes up, well, why? Why
              do you make such a statement as
              that? Every man who sets out to
              do something in this world, unless
              he made himself a Historical Figure,
              then he never again is remembered
              except by a few when he passes."


              PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is
              on page 254 and comes from
              an article in The Mystic World
              July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:

              "The rest of his story is told in
              fragments of his first visit to
              Paris to be with his stepsister,
              who was in training to be an
              artist. It was here that he first
              met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,
              and followed him to India with
              his stepsister to study ECK..."

              More about "Paris" (Kentucky)
              from pages 38-40:

              "Later I would be able to go to
              Paris to see my sister who was
              studying art at one of the art
              studios Over There. She was
              under an instructor who had
              studied under Degas... who was
              a very famous portrait painter
              of the opera and the ballet during
              his day in PARIS."

              Thus, we can clearly see that Twit
              was lying and trying to deceive us
              into thinking this was Paris, France
              (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's
              including Degas in the story.

              "I suppose that that's where she
              got her ability to paint figures
              because she had COPIED Degas
              time and time again... Well, in
              living in Paris, I was quite happy
              at the time when I was OVER there
              with my SISTER, my stepsister,
              Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]

              "...we took advantage of this freedom,
              because for some reason the Europeans
              seemed to have an affection for young
              people, more than they had in the
              western countries, particularly at that
              time." [Here, PT has without a doubt
              connected-the-dots for us by saying
              that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]

              "We were just a few block away from
              Montmartre, where all the famous
              artists were living... Edgar Degas was
              the last that I knew of, Katie was very
              close to him because she was studying
              under one of his students." [Was Degas
              even living in this year? What a liar!]

              "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
              leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
              Paris we decided that we would go back
              to his little ashram, which was five miles
              above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
              Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
              (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

              "After I had left India, came home, I was
              then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
              do some work in order to finish my degree."
              [page 48]

              Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as
              Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16
              this was 1924. However, Klemp states
              on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)
              Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who
              in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and
              "twisting facts" and that he'd never
              traveled outside of the United States
              at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,
              as the M/LEM, lying about these events
              in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,
              France prior to 1965 and never traveled
              to India (from Paris) with his sister to
              meet Sudar Singh at age 16.

              Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:

              "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first
              set out in my first work, I'm having to go
              back and redo these things and try to
              correct them." [page 135]


              prometheus


              etznab wrote:

              Prometheus & All,

              Where and when do you suppose the idea
              of "The" Living Master first occurred in the
              records of history?

              Anybody want to hazard a guess about the
              time frame?

              How about the country?

              Etznab

              Hello Z and All,
              I agree that there is only One link
              up with the Divine. IMO it's not
              through a manmade religion or via
              their manmade initiations. It's an
              on-going series of private, personal,
              and subjective events/experiences
              with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
              group think/consciousness, although,
              we all have commonalities.

              No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
              any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
              out real/true initiations (denoting levels
              of spiritual consciousness) to others
              by saying this or that person deserves
              one while another doesn't.

              However, one has to understand how
              religion works. It's very competitive.
              It's almost like buying an insurance
              policy. The one that has the best
              word of mouth reputation via happy
              customers and advertises more, while
              having the best value and coverage
              for the cost, usually does well until
              it defaults due to too many claims
              that it can't cover. After a default
              or a hesitation on coverage of their
              promises (policy) the company
              (religion) can come across as an
              unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
              people will then start to shop
              around. However, if you're Self-
              insured you don't need to shop
              around...


              Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
              saying that Sat Nam will take over
              Soul's guidance upon receiving the
              5th initiation.

              In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
              1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
              is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
              EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
              "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
              the Power, the Light, flowing down
              and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
              GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."
              [pg. 183]

              If one is to take this literally it means
              that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
              Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
              many other religions acknowledge
              Sat Nam and have written of this
              entity in ancient text while PT, on
              the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
              competitor in 1969.

              See, once again we can see how
              religions compete with one another
              for members. Eckists need to be
              willing to stand back and take a
              detached look.

              As I said before... buying into a
              religion is like buying insurance...
              just don't trust that you can collect
              on their promises (in this lifetime)
              and read the exclusions (fine print).
              However, one should remember
              that in the Free World one doesn't
              need to buy/have a religion. It's
              not the law!

              Prometheus


              zephrendhun wrote:

              Well said Promethius!

              But then again as I have said,
              there really is only one link up
              or one true initiation.

              IMO, all other initiations are
              EK ankar's way of maintaining
              'customer base'.

              The God Realized state can only
              be achieved through diligence
              by the chela to establish a one on
              one relationship with Divine Source.

              Strange though, I seem to remember
              reading somewhere in the works
              of ECK that after the chela reaches
              the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
              takes over looking after the chela
              and his journey into God Consciousness.
              I may be wrong, but I do believe
              I saw this somewhere in Paul's
              writings.

              Fashji

              prometheus wrote:

              Klemp doesn't deliver on any
              real promises does he? Why
              hasn't Klemp speeded up the
              ECK initiations so that the
              promise of God-Realization
              in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?

              Why were the EK initiations
              "slowed down" in the first
              place? Wasn't HK claiming
              the initiations were "slowed
              down" because of Darwin's
              past involvement with promoting
              500 EKists to the 5th before
              he was excommunicated? So,
              what's been the excuse since
              Klemp guided them to become
              real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
              these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
              have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
              or 8th initiations! Klemp has
              been using this as an excuse
              Not to promote for all of these
              years! This is subterfuge!

              Where's the Master's promise
              of "protection" to chelas too?
              Instead, the excuse is that it's
              a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
              or Karma and maybe a minor
              "test" for chelas (lower initiates).

              Here's a quote from HK's
              Eckankar Lexicon:

              "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
              of GOD-REALIZATION where
              Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
              the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
              is of a thousand violins; the
              word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
              SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
              the first realm created that
              IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
              and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
              [page. 91]

              Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
              "Entities" "Generally Reach
              and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
              via the 8th Initiation.

              BTW- Who are these "Beings"
              and "Entities" that the 8th
              Plane is "Available To?"

              Notice that HK states that
              Soul "Generally Reaches" the
              "8th Plane." Does that include
              all Souls, or just those paying
              that Annual ECKankar Membership
              Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
              it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
              doesn't require an EK Membership
              I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
              for the public too. One has to
              assume that HK is speaking "in
              general" terms and that this includes
              all Souls, Beings, and Entities
              whoever or whatever they are!

              Yes, who are these "Beings" and
              "Entities" that Klemp is including?

              However, since ECKists are special
              since they have a "Mahanta" why is
              it that they aren't growing by leaps
              and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
              Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
              what? IMO it's another Catch-22
              "Test!"

              Really! Let's think about it.
              Why hasn't Klemp handed
              out more 8th Initiations? By
              my guesstimate there should
              be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
              by now!

              I know that this figure sounds
              inflated and even impossible!
              Most Eckists would be shocked
              to see such a high number and
              would immediately discount and
              deny that such a high number
              would be possible. Maybe some
              H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
              or just say Haw! But, think about
              it for awhile. Let it sink in and
              consider the possibility. Hasn't
              the Consciousness of ECKists,
              and Eckankar as a group, expanded
              or "evolved" to the point where
              there should be 3,000 8th Plane
              Initiates?

              Reread the above definition for
              HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
              Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
              Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
              Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
              this:

              "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
              God-Realization where Soul
              learns God-knowledge, the
              eighth plane." [pg. 62]

              Thus Klemp added the following
              to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
              in his 1998 EK Lexicon:

              "The sound is of a thousand
              violins; the word is Aluk.
              HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
              REACHES; the first realm created
              that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
              SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

              Anyway, isn't one of the big
              promises of Eckankar that of
              reaching Spiritual Freedom and
              Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
              via the ECK Initiations that are
              seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
              Consciousness? Sure it is!

              So, where are all of those 8th
              Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
              and time is running out for him
              and others. He, or someone, needs
              to make restitution and keep those
              promises, at least, with the 8th
              Initiation which equates to God-
              Realization! Even if Klemp can't
              protect the health and well being
              of his, DG's and PT's initiates
              he could at least promote and
              give ECKists the 8th Initiation.

              If it's too much for Klemp (the
              LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
              he can designate some of the
              responsibility to Rebazar and
              the other EK Masters. Therefore,
              there really shouldn't be any more
              delays or excuses. Promote them
              now!

              Prometheus
              p.s. It's really too bad that there
              can't be an honest and open discussion
              about this. ECKists are instructed
              to "surrender" and "serve" with
              detachment and are to keep "silent"
              and not to "second guess" the LEM/
              Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
              have always maintained control
              over their followers? What does
              Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
              that he fears and this is why HK
              relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
              with their positions of authority,
              to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.

              ******
              Some European Countries
              Protect Their Citizens From
              the Cults of ECKankar and
              Scientology.

              I saw where the French office
              of the Church of Scientology
              sect got into trouble for fraud.

              Is it possible that Eckankar
              could be next? Apparently
              Eckankar and Scientology
              are listed as "sects/cults"
              in many European countries
              (France, Belgium, Germany,
              etc.). These sects, like Scientology
              and Eckankar, don't have the
              legal status of main stream
              religions, nor do they have
              the same benefits under their
              laws.

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html


              The question is:

              What could be regarded as fraud?

              Would the Annual EK Membership
              Donation/Fee that promises
              enlightenment (God-Realization),
              via the 8th initiation for most
              Eckists in this lifetime, as well
              as, the "Protections" of the Master
              for all chelas (that never happens)
              be considered as Fraud? Klemp
              slowed these initiations down
              due to Darwin's involvement,
              but that's been a long time ago!

              Look at all of the ECKists
              who have died of or have
              contracted Cancer and other
              diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
              Master) promises them
              "Protection!"

              And, look at HK's "promises"
              to chelas and H.I.s involving
              God-Realization in this lifetime
              and yet he doesn't offer enough
              Higher Initiations to fullfil his
              promises! And, maintaining
              one's initiations is directly tied
              into the Annual EK Membership
              Donation Fee.

              Thus, the taking of money by
              Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
              Discourses and EK Memberships
              and the making of False Promises
              to chelas for this present lifetime
              constitutes Fraud even though
              this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
              religions to make false promises.
              However, it is unethical and
              amoral at the very least! It does
              give "hope" to the disillusioned,
              disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
              but isn't Eckankar supposed to
              be the best and highest path to
              help these Souls on earth, as well
              as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
              "promises" of the Master a reality
              in the physical instead of always
              being a KAL test or Karma?

              However, under most European
              Laws would this failure to deliver
              be considered to be fraudulent
              enough to be classified as a crime
              against the public? It seems so!

              It could be that under the laws
              of certain European countries that
              Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
              be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
              or former Eckist, decided to be
              refunded the sums of their Annual
              EK Membership Donation Fees,
              and Eckankar denied the refunds.

              Maybe some former or current
              German, French, and Belgium
              Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
              for a refund for the sum of their
              EK Memberships over the years!


              Will Eckankar follow Scientology?

              ******

              Here's an excerpt of the definition
              of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
              (1991):

              "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
              of truth for the purpose of inducing
              another in reliance upon it to part
              with some valuable thing belonging
              to him or to surrender a legal right...

              [A Required/Requested Annual
              Membership Donation $$$$$$]

              Elements of a cause of action for
              'fraud' include false representation
              of a present or past fact made by
              the defendant, action in reliance
              thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
              resulting to plaintiff from such
              misrepresentation... As distinguished
              from negligence, it is always
              positive, intentional. It comprises
              all acts, omissions, and concealments
              involving a breach of a legal or
              equitable duty and resulting in
              damage to another. And includes
              anything calculated to deceive,
              whether it be a single act or
              combination of circumstances...
              Fraud, as applied to contracts,
              is the cause of an error bearing
              on a material part of the contract,
              created or contained by artifice,
              with design to obtain some unjust
              advantage to one party, or to cause
              an inconvenience or loss to the other."


              Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
              fraud of misrepresentation since
              it doesn't deliver on the Higher
              Initiations ["omissions"] required
              to attain God-Realization! [Refer
              to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
              2, Chapter 12.]

              Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
              "contract" with his followers, but
              he only makes empty promises
              and does not fulfill his obligations,
              and yet he's ready and willing to take
              Eckists' hard earned money!

              And, let's look at Eckankar's
              "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
              plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
              to cover-up these facts.

              Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
              sects, and cults (unless proven to be
              guilty of higher crimes) basically have
              carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
              make false promises for money.

              What a scam! Eckists have been paying
              for their initiations for years but have
              been locked-out of those required for
              God-Realization!

              It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
              lead. However, in Belgium, France and
              Germany these cults and sects don't
              have the same protection as "religions"
              do. This is what the U.S. should have
              done 50 years ago!

              Prometheus
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