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Re: HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, Or, we could look at The living saviour origin as well. I don t know! However, PT realized that people needed a living idol to adore
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 29, 2009
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      Hello Etznab and All,
      Or, we could look at "The" living
      "saviour" origin as well. I don't
      know! However, PT realized that
      people needed a living idol to adore
      and had this Mystic World article
      written in his behalf:

      "But few ever connect him up with
      being a holy man, the MAHANTA,
      the Living ECK Master. There is a
      need of the people to believe in
      the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul
      Twitchell knows this and acts out
      the part." [April-May-June 1971,
      Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
      pg. 250]

      However, in order to become a
      "Saviour" Paul had to have had
      a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The
      following comes from pages 251-
      253 of Difficulties of Becoming
      the Living ECK Master:

      "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...
      Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and
      Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss
      the birth of the coming Avatar
      for the Twentieth Century,
      Peddar Zaskq. Born in the
      Caucasian mountains during
      the seventeenth century...
      Given several years in the art
      of silence and Darkness he gained
      enlightenment in preparation
      for his return to the Twentieth
      Century. [HK should take note
      of this next statement] When
      the time came for his demise,
      he passed away still looking
      the same youthful appearance
      yet beyond the normal age of
      man....

      This time Peddar Zaskq was
      born on a Mississippi River
      packet enroute to New Orleans.
      The miraculous birth took place
      just below the city of Natchez,
      Mississippi just below a stock
      farm (manger)... There appeared
      a Blue Carnation in a vase on
      a night table by THE mother's
      bed... It was immediately
      arranged for him to be given
      a home in which to be raised.
      His foster parents raised him
      in a small southern river town
      [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted
      their name and became known
      as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]


      We, also, have Twit saying this
      as an excuse for his lies and self-
      promotion [pg. 126]:

      "So therefore we got to be, to
      place ourselves in the mainstream,
      which I hope I do and I have to say,
      unless I make myself a Historical
      Figure, the struggle of ECK for
      survival is useless. And the question
      of that comes up, well, why? Why
      do you make such a statement as
      that? Every man who sets out to
      do something in this world, unless
      he made himself a Historical Figure,
      then he never again is remembered
      except by a few when he passes."


      PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is
      on page 254 and comes from
      an article in The Mystic World
      July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:

      "The rest of his story is told in
      fragments of his first visit to
      Paris to be with his stepsister,
      who was in training to be an
      artist. It was here that he first
      met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,
      and followed him to India with
      his stepsister to study ECK..."

      More about "Paris" (Kentucky)
      from pages 38-40:

      "Later I would be able to go to
      Paris to see my sister who was
      studying art at one of the art
      studios Over There. She was
      under an instructor who had
      studied under Degas... who was
      a very famous portrait painter
      of the opera and the ballet during
      his day in PARIS."

      Thus, we can clearly see that Twit
      was lying and trying to deceive us
      into thinking this was Paris, France
      (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's
      including Degas in the story.

      "I suppose that that's where she
      got her ability to paint figures
      because she had COPIED Degas
      time and time again... Well, in
      living in Paris, I was quite happy
      at the time when I was OVER there
      with my SISTER, my stepsister,
      Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]

      "...we took advantage of this freedom,
      because for some reason the Europeans
      seemed to have an affection for young
      people, more than they had in the
      western countries, particularly at that
      time." [Here, PT has without a doubt
      connected-the-dots for us by saying
      that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]

      "We were just a few block away from
      Montmartre, where all the famous
      artists were living... Edgar Degas was
      the last that I knew of, Katie was very
      close to him because she was studying
      under one of his students." [Was Degas
      even living in this year? What a liar!]

      "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
      leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
      Paris we decided that we would go back
      to his little ashram, which was five miles
      above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
      Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
      (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

      "After I had left India, came home, I was
      then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
      do some work in order to finish my degree."
      [page 48]

      Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as
      Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16
      this was 1924. However, Klemp states
      on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)
      Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who
      in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and
      "twisting facts" and that he'd never
      traveled outside of the United States
      at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,
      as the M/LEM, lying about these events
      in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,
      France prior to 1965 and never traveled
      to India (from Paris) with his sister to
      meet Sudar Singh at age 16.

      Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:

      "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first
      set out in my first work, I'm having to go
      back and redo these things and try to
      correct them." [page 135]


      prometheus


      etznab wrote:

      Prometheus & All,

      Where and when do you suppose the idea
      of "The" Living Master first occurred in the
      records of history?

      Anybody want to hazard a guess about the
      time frame?

      How about the country?

      Etznab

      Hello Z and All,
      I agree that there is only One link
      up with the Divine. IMO it's not
      through a manmade religion or via
      their manmade initiations. It's an
      on-going series of private, personal,
      and subjective events/experiences
      with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
      group think/consciousness, although,
      we all have commonalities.

      No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
      any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
      out real/true initiations (denoting levels
      of spiritual consciousness) to others
      by saying this or that person deserves
      one while another doesn't.

      However, one has to understand how
      religion works. It's very competitive.
      It's almost like buying an insurance
      policy. The one that has the best
      word of mouth reputation via happy
      customers and advertises more, while
      having the best value and coverage
      for the cost, usually does well until
      it defaults due to too many claims
      that it can't cover. After a default
      or a hesitation on coverage of their
      promises (policy) the company
      (religion) can come across as an
      unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
      people will then start to shop
      around. However, if you're Self-
      insured you don't need to shop
      around...


      Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
      saying that Sat Nam will take over
      Soul's guidance upon receiving the
      5th initiation.

      In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
      1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
      is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
      EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
      "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
      the Power, the Light, flowing down
      and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
      GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."
      [pg. 183]

      If one is to take this literally it means
      that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
      Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
      many other religions acknowledge
      Sat Nam and have written of this
      entity in ancient text while PT, on
      the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
      competitor in 1969.

      See, once again we can see how
      religions compete with one another
      for members. Eckists need to be
      willing to stand back and take a
      detached look.

      As I said before... buying into a
      religion is like buying insurance...
      just don't trust that you can collect
      on their promises (in this lifetime)
      and read the exclusions (fine print).
      However, one should remember
      that in the Free World one doesn't
      need to buy/have a religion. It's
      not the law!

      Prometheus


      zephrendhun wrote:

      Well said Promethius!

      But then again as I have said,
      there really is only one link up
      or one true initiation.

      IMO, all other initiations are
      EK ankar's way of maintaining
      'customer base'.

      The God Realized state can only
      be achieved through diligence
      by the chela to establish a one on
      one relationship with Divine Source.

      Strange though, I seem to remember
      reading somewhere in the works
      of ECK that after the chela reaches
      the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
      takes over looking after the chela
      and his journey into God Consciousness.
      I may be wrong, but I do believe
      I saw this somewhere in Paul's
      writings.

      Fashji

      prometheus wrote:

      Klemp doesn't deliver on any
      real promises does he? Why
      hasn't Klemp speeded up the
      ECK initiations so that the
      promise of God-Realization
      in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?

      Why were the EK initiations
      "slowed down" in the first
      place? Wasn't HK claiming
      the initiations were "slowed
      down" because of Darwin's
      past involvement with promoting
      500 EKists to the 5th before
      he was excommunicated? So,
      what's been the excuse since
      Klemp guided them to become
      real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
      these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
      have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
      or 8th initiations! Klemp has
      been using this as an excuse
      Not to promote for all of these
      years! This is subterfuge!

      Where's the Master's promise
      of "protection" to chelas too?
      Instead, the excuse is that it's
      a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
      or Karma and maybe a minor
      "test" for chelas (lower initiates).

      Here's a quote from HK's
      Eckankar Lexicon:

      "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
      of GOD-REALIZATION where
      Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
      the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
      is of a thousand violins; the
      word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
      SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
      the first realm created that
      IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
      and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
      [page. 91]

      Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
      "Entities" "Generally Reach
      and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
      via the 8th Initiation.

      BTW- Who are these "Beings"
      and "Entities" that the 8th
      Plane is "Available To?"

      Notice that HK states that
      Soul "Generally Reaches" the
      "8th Plane." Does that include
      all Souls, or just those paying
      that Annual ECKankar Membership
      Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
      it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
      doesn't require an EK Membership
      I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
      for the public too. One has to
      assume that HK is speaking "in
      general" terms and that this includes
      all Souls, Beings, and Entities
      whoever or whatever they are!

      Yes, who are these "Beings" and
      "Entities" that Klemp is including?

      However, since ECKists are special
      since they have a "Mahanta" why is
      it that they aren't growing by leaps
      and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
      Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
      what? IMO it's another Catch-22
      "Test!"

      Really! Let's think about it.
      Why hasn't Klemp handed
      out more 8th Initiations? By
      my guesstimate there should
      be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
      by now!

      I know that this figure sounds
      inflated and even impossible!
      Most Eckists would be shocked
      to see such a high number and
      would immediately discount and
      deny that such a high number
      would be possible. Maybe some
      H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
      or just say Haw! But, think about
      it for awhile. Let it sink in and
      consider the possibility. Hasn't
      the Consciousness of ECKists,
      and Eckankar as a group, expanded
      or "evolved" to the point where
      there should be 3,000 8th Plane
      Initiates?

      Reread the above definition for
      HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
      Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
      Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
      Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
      this:

      "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
      God-Realization where Soul
      learns God-knowledge, the
      eighth plane." [pg. 62]

      Thus Klemp added the following
      to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
      in his 1998 EK Lexicon:

      "The sound is of a thousand
      violins; the word is Aluk.
      HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
      REACHES; the first realm created
      that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
      SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

      Anyway, isn't one of the big
      promises of Eckankar that of
      reaching Spiritual Freedom and
      Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
      via the ECK Initiations that are
      seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
      Consciousness? Sure it is!

      So, where are all of those 8th
      Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
      and time is running out for him
      and others. He, or someone, needs
      to make restitution and keep those
      promises, at least, with the 8th
      Initiation which equates to God-
      Realization! Even if Klemp can't
      protect the health and well being
      of his, DG's and PT's initiates
      he could at least promote and
      give ECKists the 8th Initiation.

      If it's too much for Klemp (the
      LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
      he can designate some of the
      responsibility to Rebazar and
      the other EK Masters. Therefore,
      there really shouldn't be any more
      delays or excuses. Promote them
      now!

      Prometheus
      p.s. It's really too bad that there
      can't be an honest and open discussion
      about this. ECKists are instructed
      to "surrender" and "serve" with
      detachment and are to keep "silent"
      and not to "second guess" the LEM/
      Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
      have always maintained control
      over their followers? What does
      Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
      that he fears and this is why HK
      relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
      with their positions of authority,
      to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.

      ******
      Some European Countries
      Protect Their Citizens From
      the Cults of ECKankar and
      Scientology.

      I saw where the French office
      of the Church of Scientology
      sect got into trouble for fraud.

      Is it possible that Eckankar
      could be next? Apparently
      Eckankar and Scientology
      are listed as "sects/cults"
      in many European countries
      (France, Belgium, Germany,
      etc.). These sects, like Scientology
      and Eckankar, don't have the
      legal status of main stream
      religions, nor do they have
      the same benefits under their
      laws.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html


      The question is:

      What could be regarded as fraud?

      Would the Annual EK Membership
      Donation/Fee that promises
      enlightenment (God-Realization),
      via the 8th initiation for most
      Eckists in this lifetime, as well
      as, the "Protections" of the Master
      for all chelas (that never happens)
      be considered as Fraud? Klemp
      slowed these initiations down
      due to Darwin's involvement,
      but that's been a long time ago!

      Look at all of the ECKists
      who have died of or have
      contracted Cancer and other
      diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
      Master) promises them
      "Protection!"

      And, look at HK's "promises"
      to chelas and H.I.s involving
      God-Realization in this lifetime
      and yet he doesn't offer enough
      Higher Initiations to fullfil his
      promises! And, maintaining
      one's initiations is directly tied
      into the Annual EK Membership
      Donation Fee.

      Thus, the taking of money by
      Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
      Discourses and EK Memberships
      and the making of False Promises
      to chelas for this present lifetime
      constitutes Fraud even though
      this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
      religions to make false promises.
      However, it is unethical and
      amoral at the very least! It does
      give "hope" to the disillusioned,
      disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
      but isn't Eckankar supposed to
      be the best and highest path to
      help these Souls on earth, as well
      as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
      "promises" of the Master a reality
      in the physical instead of always
      being a KAL test or Karma?

      However, under most European
      Laws would this failure to deliver
      be considered to be fraudulent
      enough to be classified as a crime
      against the public? It seems so!

      It could be that under the laws
      of certain European countries that
      Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
      be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
      or former Eckist, decided to be
      refunded the sums of their Annual
      EK Membership Donation Fees,
      and Eckankar denied the refunds.

      Maybe some former or current
      German, French, and Belgium
      Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
      for a refund for the sum of their
      EK Memberships over the years!


      Will Eckankar follow Scientology?

      ******

      Here's an excerpt of the definition
      of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
      (1991):

      "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
      of truth for the purpose of inducing
      another in reliance upon it to part
      with some valuable thing belonging
      to him or to surrender a legal right...

      [A Required/Requested Annual
      Membership Donation $$$$$$]

      Elements of a cause of action for
      'fraud' include false representation
      of a present or past fact made by
      the defendant, action in reliance
      thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
      resulting to plaintiff from such
      misrepresentation... As distinguished
      from negligence, it is always
      positive, intentional. It comprises
      all acts, omissions, and concealments
      involving a breach of a legal or
      equitable duty and resulting in
      damage to another. And includes
      anything calculated to deceive,
      whether it be a single act or
      combination of circumstances...
      Fraud, as applied to contracts,
      is the cause of an error bearing
      on a material part of the contract,
      created or contained by artifice,
      with design to obtain some unjust
      advantage to one party, or to cause
      an inconvenience or loss to the other."


      Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
      fraud of misrepresentation since
      it doesn't deliver on the Higher
      Initiations ["omissions"] required
      to attain God-Realization! [Refer
      to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
      2, Chapter 12.]

      Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
      "contract" with his followers, but
      he only makes empty promises
      and does not fulfill his obligations,
      and yet he's ready and willing to take
      Eckists' hard earned money!

      And, let's look at Eckankar's
      "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
      plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
      to cover-up these facts.

      Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
      sects, and cults (unless proven to be
      guilty of higher crimes) basically have
      carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
      make false promises for money.

      What a scam! Eckists have been paying
      for their initiations for years but have
      been locked-out of those required for
      God-Realization!

      It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
      lead. However, in Belgium, France and
      Germany these cults and sects don't
      have the same protection as "religions"
      do. This is what the U.S. should have
      done 50 years ago!

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      These quotes are from Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master. Here s a 1971 comment from PT from page 28: I knew that I myself was not the same as
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 2, 2009
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        These quotes are from "Difficulties
        Of Becoming The Living ECK Master."

        Here's a 1971 comment from PT
        from page 28:

        "I knew that I myself was not the
        same as that child that was next
        to me. I knew that I was superior
        in my mentality, I knew that I was
        superior to the teacher in all my
        knowledge, in all my understanding."

        Here's what appeared earlier in
        the Oct.-Nov.-Dec. 1970 Mystic
        World article (page 244):

        "Paul does not appear to like the
        intellectual person. He says they
        are all the same, making elaborate
        little plans. They give fussy attention
        to small perfections and when something
        goes wrong because of their inborn
        blindness, they scream frantically
        for help from someone else to act
        in their behalf--to do something
        for them."

        Thus, it seems we have another PT
        contradiction or a self-loathing!

        BTW- Since, Klemp is listed in the
        "International Who's Who of INTELLECTUALS,
        ninth edition" is Paul (the original
        Mahanta) giving a reading to Klemp
        via the ECK-Vidya, or is this proof
        that Klemp Would Not have been
        Paul's choice to become the LEM/M!

        Here's more of what Paul has to say
        about his intellect and how to "read"
        books (pg. 30):

        "Anyway, this was one of the things
        I'm trying to show you that where
        I had a SUPERIOR MENTALITY, INTELLECT,
        over these other people, and I got
        it in the way that I told you one time
        from SLEEPING ON BOOKS, and SOMETIMES
        READING THEM and sometimes it
        just came natural to me... This
        was a part of that which we call the
        mastership or the training of the
        ECK mastership."

        More on what Paul has to say about
        reading (pg. 98):

        "It is said now that a reader who is
        a good reader, who enjoys reading,
        can read 7,000 books a year normally.
        I have proven this out myself because
        when I was in Seattle I READ ABOUT
        35,000 BOOKS, OR I DON'T SAY THAT
        I PARTICULARLY READ THEM WORD
        FOR WORD. I WENT THROUGH 35,000
        BOOKS of every subject you can know
        which built me a background for a
        certain bit of the work I have today...
        when I was in Washington, D.C. for
        several years, I READ about 15,000
        books in the Congressional Library...
        in New York. I MAY HAVE READ 5,000
        or something like that when I was
        there for one year in 1946."

        Well, as we can see Paul is Full of
        B.S. He sounds like the ConMan
        that he was and shows us that at
        the most he either "skimmed" these
        35,000 books, or is lying about
        this too! But, in any case he does
        show us how he created the
        "background" for Eckankar as
        "a certain bit of the work I have
        today."

        Here's more PT comments (1971)
        that tend to contradict the use of
        skim-reading and the sleeping on
        books for "chelas" with regard to
        The ECK Discourses (pgs.196-197):

        "They lack a good understanding
        as to what is taking place as they
        study these. Often they become
        entangled in trying to figure out
        a syntax, notice a typographical
        error, or READ QUICKLY FOR
        INFORMATION. They tie themselves
        up in all sorts of LOGIC, GRAMMAR,
        and other sorts of opinions and
        SOME READ QUICKLY and say,
        'There is nothing new in that.'

        This is nothing new because EKists,
        still, tend to fill-in the blanks with
        their imaginations when the info
        comes up short (too simple), is
        redundant, lacks details, and seems
        illogical (unbelievable, untrue).

        "The Second Factor is that the
        student who is in A HURRY FOR
        INFORMATION and engages in
        SPEED READING or JUMPS TO
        CONCLUSIONS on the basis of
        a few paragraphs HASTILY
        SCAMMED, misses the most
        important benefits of all."

        It's no wonder that Eckists
        still get confused with the
        "do as I say, not as I do"
        attitude and rules that all
        religious leaders use!

        BTW- What are "the most
        important benefits of all,"
        for the chela, that PT is
        mentioning in this last
        sentence? Aren't the Higher
        EK Initiations the most
        important benefits of all!

        Prometheus

        HK's God-Realization Promise and the 8th Initiation!

        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Etznab and All,
        Or, we could look at "The" living
        "saviour" origin as well. I don't
        know! However, PT realized that
        people needed a living idol to adore
        and had this Mystic World article
        written in his behalf:

        "But few ever connect him up with
        being a holy man, the MAHANTA,
        the Living ECK Master. There is a
        need of the people to believe in
        the magic of a saviour, and Sri Paul
        Twitchell knows this and acts out
        the part." [April-May-June 1971,
        Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
        pg. 250]

        However, in order to become a
        "Saviour" Paul had to have had
        a Virgin Birth (this is SOP). The
        following comes from pages 251-
        253 of Difficulties of Becoming
        the Living ECK Master:

        "Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam...
        Rebazar Tarzs... Gopal Das..and
        Yaubl Sacabi... met to discuss
        the birth of the coming Avatar
        for the Twentieth Century,
        Peddar Zaskq. Born in the
        Caucasian mountains during
        the seventeenth century...
        Given several years in the art
        of silence and Darkness he gained
        enlightenment in preparation
        for his return to the Twentieth
        Century. [HK should take note
        of this next statement] When
        the time came for his demise,
        he passed away still looking
        the same youthful appearance
        yet beyond the normal age of
        man....

        This time Peddar Zaskq was
        born on a Mississippi River
        packet enroute to New Orleans.
        The miraculous birth took place
        just below the city of Natchez,
        Mississippi just below a stock
        farm (manger)... There appeared
        a Blue Carnation in a vase on
        a night table by THE mother's
        bed... It was immediately
        arranged for him to be given
        a home in which to be raised.
        His foster parents raised him
        in a small southern river town
        [Paducah, Kentucky]. He adopted
        their name and became known
        as Paul Twitchell." [end of quote]


        We, also, have Twit saying this
        as an excuse for his lies and self-
        promotion [pg. 126]:

        "So therefore we got to be, to
        place ourselves in the mainstream,
        which I hope I do and I have to say,
        unless I make myself a Historical
        Figure, the struggle of ECK for
        survival is useless. And the question
        of that comes up, well, why? Why
        do you make such a statement as
        that? Every man who sets out to
        do something in this world, unless
        he made himself a Historical Figure,
        then he never again is remembered
        except by a few when he passes."


        PT's Paris (Kentucky) Story is
        on page 254 and comes from
        an article in The Mystic World
        July-Aug.-Sept, 1971:

        "The rest of his story is told in
        fragments of his first visit to
        Paris to be with his stepsister,
        who was in training to be an
        artist. It was here that he first
        met Sudar Singh, an ECK Master,
        and followed him to India with
        his stepsister to study ECK..."

        More about "Paris" (Kentucky)
        from pages 38-40:

        "Later I would be able to go to
        Paris to see my sister who was
        studying art at one of the art
        studios Over There. She was
        under an instructor who had
        studied under Degas... who was
        a very famous portrait painter
        of the opera and the ballet during
        his day in PARIS."

        Thus, we can clearly see that Twit
        was lying and trying to deceive us
        into thinking this was Paris, France
        (not Paris, Kentucky) since he's
        including Degas in the story.

        "I suppose that that's where she
        got her ability to paint figures
        because she had COPIED Degas
        time and time again... Well, in
        living in Paris, I was quite happy
        at the time when I was OVER there
        with my SISTER, my stepsister,
        Katie." [Twit would call her Kay-Dee]

        "...we took advantage of this freedom,
        because for some reason the Europeans
        seemed to have an affection for young
        people, more than they had in the
        western countries, particularly at that
        time." [Here, PT has without a doubt
        connected-the-dots for us by saying
        that he was in Europe and not Kentucky]

        "We were just a few block away from
        Montmartre, where all the famous
        artists were living... Edgar Degas was
        the last that I knew of, Katie was very
        close to him because she was studying
        under one of his students." [Was Degas
        even living in this year? What a liar!]

        "WE met with Sudar Singh who was the
        leading advocate of Soul Travel. From
        Paris we decided that we would go back
        to his little ashram, which was five miles
        above ALLAHABAD, on what they call Old
        Canteen Road..." [So, from Paris, France
        (Kentucky) they went to Allahabad, India!]

        "After I had left India, came home, I was
        then about sixteen. I had a year or so to
        do some work in order to finish my degree."
        [page 48]

        Note: Klemp gives Paul's birthdate as
        Oct. 22, 1908. Thus, if Paul was 16
        this was 1924. However, Klemp states
        on eckankar.org that at age 27 (1935)
        Paul was trying to get into "Who's Who
        in Kentucky" by "exaggerating" and
        "twisting facts" and that he'd never
        traveled outside of the United States
        at that time. Therefore, Paul is still,
        as the M/LEM, lying about these events
        in 1971! And, PT was never in Paris,
        France prior to 1965 and never traveled
        to India (from Paris) with his sister to
        meet Sudar Singh at age 16.

        Here's another PT tidbit that tells a lot:

        "Now, a lot of the impressions that I first
        set out in my first work, I'm having to go
        back and redo these things and try to
        correct them." [page 135]


        prometheus


        etznab wrote:

        Prometheus & All,

        Where and when do you suppose the idea
        of "The" Living Master first occurred in the
        records of history?

        Anybody want to hazard a guess about the
        time frame?

        How about the country?

        Etznab

        Hello Z and All,
        I agree that there is only One link
        up with the Divine. IMO it's not
        through a manmade religion or via
        their manmade initiations. It's an
        on-going series of private, personal,
        and subjective events/experiences
        with the Holy Spirit that excludes a
        group think/consciousness, although,
        we all have commonalities.

        No person (Klemp or otherwise) nor
        any imaginary "Inner Master" can dole
        out real/true initiations (denoting levels
        of spiritual consciousness) to others
        by saying this or that person deserves
        one while another doesn't.

        However, one has to understand how
        religion works. It's very competitive.
        It's almost like buying an insurance
        policy. The one that has the best
        word of mouth reputation via happy
        customers and advertises more, while
        having the best value and coverage
        for the cost, usually does well until
        it defaults due to too many claims
        that it can't cover. After a default
        or a hesitation on coverage of their
        promises (policy) the company
        (religion) can come across as an
        unsafe investment (scam). Thus,
        people will then start to shop
        around. However, if you're Self-
        insured you don't need to shop
        around...


        Yes, I too seem to remember Twit
        saying that Sat Nam will take over
        Soul's guidance upon receiving the
        5th initiation.

        In "The Path of the Masters" (pg. 199,
        1977 edition) it states that Sat Nam
        is the "Supreme Guru" and in Klemp's
        EK Lexicon he states that Sat Nam is
        "the lord of ALL ABOVE and below;
        the Power, the Light, flowing down
        and OUT to ALL CREATION, to CREATE,
        GOVERN, and SUSTAIN ALL REGIONS..."
        [pg. 183]

        If one is to take this literally it means
        that SAT NAM is the one true "Inner
        Master" versus the Mahanta! Plus,
        many other religions acknowledge
        Sat Nam and have written of this
        entity in ancient text while PT, on
        the other hand, created his "Mahanta"
        competitor in 1969.

        See, once again we can see how
        religions compete with one another
        for members. Eckists need to be
        willing to stand back and take a
        detached look.

        As I said before... buying into a
        religion is like buying insurance...
        just don't trust that you can collect
        on their promises (in this lifetime)
        and read the exclusions (fine print).
        However, one should remember
        that in the Free World one doesn't
        need to buy/have a religion. It's
        not the law!

        Prometheus


        zephrendhun wrote:

        Well said Promethius!

        But then again as I have said,
        there really is only one link up
        or one true initiation.

        IMO, all other initiations are
        EK ankar's way of maintaining
        'customer base'.

        The God Realized state can only
        be achieved through diligence
        by the chela to establish a one on
        one relationship with Divine Source.

        Strange though, I seem to remember
        reading somewhere in the works
        of ECK that after the chela reaches
        the 5th world, the Lord Sat Nam
        takes over looking after the chela
        and his journey into God Consciousness.
        I may be wrong, but I do believe
        I saw this somewhere in Paul's
        writings.

        Fashji

        prometheus wrote:

        Klemp doesn't deliver on any
        real promises does he? Why
        hasn't Klemp speeded up the
        ECK initiations so that the
        promise of God-Realization
        in This Lifetime can be fulfilled?

        Why were the EK initiations
        "slowed down" in the first
        place? Wasn't HK claiming
        the initiations were "slowed
        down" because of Darwin's
        past involvement with promoting
        500 EKists to the 5th before
        he was excommunicated? So,
        what's been the excuse since
        Klemp guided them to become
        real/full 5ths? And, DG promoting
        these 500 5ths didn't or shouldn't
        have affected the 6ths, 7ths,
        or 8th initiations! Klemp has
        been using this as an excuse
        Not to promote for all of these
        years! This is subterfuge!

        Where's the Master's promise
        of "protection" to chelas too?
        Instead, the excuse is that it's
        a "test" of faith (for H.I.s),
        or Karma and maybe a minor
        "test" for chelas (lower initiates).

        Here's a quote from HK's
        Eckankar Lexicon:

        "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane
        of GOD-REALIZATION where
        Soul learns GOD-KNOWLEDGE;
        the EIGHTH PLANE. The sound
        is of a thousand violins; the
        word is Aluk. HIGHEST STATE
        SOUL GENERALLY REACHES;
        the first realm created that
        IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS, SOULS,
        and ENTITIES for DWELLING."
        [page. 91]

        Thus, "Souls," "Beings," and
        "Entities" "Generally Reach
        and Dwell" on this 8th Plane
        via the 8th Initiation.

        BTW- Who are these "Beings"
        and "Entities" that the 8th
        Plane is "Available To?"

        Notice that HK states that
        Soul "Generally Reaches" the
        "8th Plane." Does that include
        all Souls, or just those paying
        that Annual ECKankar Membership
        Donation/Fee? it's unclear isn't
        it? However, HK's Eckankar Lexicon
        doesn't require an EK Membership
        I.D. to purchase it... thus, it's
        for the public too. One has to
        assume that HK is speaking "in
        general" terms and that this includes
        all Souls, Beings, and Entities
        whoever or whatever they are!

        Yes, who are these "Beings" and
        "Entities" that Klemp is including?

        However, since ECKists are special
        since they have a "Mahanta" why is
        it that they aren't growing by leaps
        and bounds with "Higher" Initiations?
        Is this a paradox or a Catch-22 or
        what? IMO it's another Catch-22
        "Test!"

        Really! Let's think about it.
        Why hasn't Klemp handed
        out more 8th Initiations? By
        my guesstimate there should
        be at least 3,000 8th Initiates
        by now!

        I know that this figure sounds
        inflated and even impossible!
        Most Eckists would be shocked
        to see such a high number and
        would immediately discount and
        deny that such a high number
        would be possible. Maybe some
        H.I.s would give a nervous laugh
        or just say Haw! But, think about
        it for awhile. Let it sink in and
        consider the possibility. Hasn't
        the Consciousness of ECKists,
        and Eckankar as a group, expanded
        or "evolved" to the point where
        there should be 3,000 8th Plane
        Initiates?

        Reread the above definition for
        HUKIKAT LOK that is, also, in
        Twitchell's (1973) Eckankar
        Dictionary. Except, in Twitchell's
        Eckankar Dictionary PT stated
        this:

        "HUKIKAT LOK. The plane of
        God-Realization where Soul
        learns God-knowledge, the
        eighth plane." [pg. 62]

        Thus Klemp added the following
        to PT's HUKIKAT LOK definition
        in his 1998 EK Lexicon:

        "The sound is of a thousand
        violins; the word is Aluk.
        HIGHEST STATE SOUL GENERALLY
        REACHES; the first realm created
        that IS AVAILABLE TO BEINGS,
        SOULS, and ENTITIES for DWELLING."

        Anyway, isn't one of the big
        promises of Eckankar that of
        reaching Spiritual Freedom and
        Self-Mastery, in This Lifetime,
        via the ECK Initiations that are
        seen as "yardsticks" to Higher
        Consciousness? Sure it is!

        So, where are all of those 8th
        Initiations? Klemp is just selfish
        and time is running out for him
        and others. He, or someone, needs
        to make restitution and keep those
        promises, at least, with the 8th
        Initiation which equates to God-
        Realization! Even if Klemp can't
        protect the health and well being
        of his, DG's and PT's initiates
        he could at least promote and
        give ECKists the 8th Initiation.

        If it's too much for Klemp (the
        LEM/Mahanta) to handle alone
        he can designate some of the
        responsibility to Rebazar and
        the other EK Masters. Therefore,
        there really shouldn't be any more
        delays or excuses. Promote them
        now!

        Prometheus
        p.s. It's really too bad that there
        can't be an honest and open discussion
        about this. ECKists are instructed
        to "surrender" and "serve" with
        detachment and are to keep "silent"
        and not to "second guess" the LEM/
        Mahanta. But, isn't this how religions
        have always maintained control
        over their followers? What does
        Klemp have to fear? It's the "Truth"
        that he fears and this is why HK
        relies upon the RESA police hierarchy,
        with their positions of authority,
        to surpress their fellow 7th Initiates.

        ******
        Some European Countries
        Protect Their Citizens From
        the Cults of ECKankar and
        Scientology.

        I saw where the French office
        of the Church of Scientology
        sect got into trouble for fraud.

        Is it possible that Eckankar
        could be next? Apparently
        Eckankar and Scientology
        are listed as "sects/cults"
        in many European countries
        (France, Belgium, Germany,
        etc.). These sects, like Scientology
        and Eckankar, don't have the
        legal status of main stream
        religions, nor do they have
        the same benefits under their
        laws.

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/church-of-scientology-con_n_335063.html


        The question is:

        What could be regarded as fraud?

        Would the Annual EK Membership
        Donation/Fee that promises
        enlightenment (God-Realization),
        via the 8th initiation for most
        Eckists in this lifetime, as well
        as, the "Protections" of the Master
        for all chelas (that never happens)
        be considered as Fraud? Klemp
        slowed these initiations down
        due to Darwin's involvement,
        but that's been a long time ago!

        Look at all of the ECKists
        who have died of or have
        contracted Cancer and other
        diseases! Yet, Klemp (the
        Master) promises them
        "Protection!"

        And, look at HK's "promises"
        to chelas and H.I.s involving
        God-Realization in this lifetime
        and yet he doesn't offer enough
        Higher Initiations to fullfil his
        promises! And, maintaining
        one's initiations is directly tied
        into the Annual EK Membership
        Donation Fee.

        Thus, the taking of money by
        Klemp, and Eckankar, for EK
        Discourses and EK Memberships
        and the making of False Promises
        to chelas for this present lifetime
        constitutes Fraud even though
        this isn't illegal in the U.S. for
        religions to make false promises.
        However, it is unethical and
        amoral at the very least! It does
        give "hope" to the disillusioned,
        disenfranchised, fearful, and needy,
        but isn't Eckankar supposed to
        be the best and highest path to
        help these Souls on earth, as well
        as, in heaven? Why then aren't the
        "promises" of the Master a reality
        in the physical instead of always
        being a KAL test or Karma?

        However, under most European
        Laws would this failure to deliver
        be considered to be fraudulent
        enough to be classified as a crime
        against the public? It seems so!

        It could be that under the laws
        of certain European countries that
        Eckankar (a religious Sect) could
        be found Guilty of Fraud IF an Eckist,
        or former Eckist, decided to be
        refunded the sums of their Annual
        EK Membership Donation Fees,
        and Eckankar denied the refunds.

        Maybe some former or current
        German, French, and Belgium
        Eckists will consider asking Eckankar
        for a refund for the sum of their
        EK Memberships over the years!


        Will Eckankar follow Scientology?

        ******

        Here's an excerpt of the definition
        of Fraud from Black's Law Dictionary
        (1991):

        "FRAUD. An intentional perversion
        of truth for the purpose of inducing
        another in reliance upon it to part
        with some valuable thing belonging
        to him or to surrender a legal right...

        [A Required/Requested Annual
        Membership Donation $$$$$$]

        Elements of a cause of action for
        'fraud' include false representation
        of a present or past fact made by
        the defendant, action in reliance
        thereupon by plaintiff, and damage
        resulting to plaintiff from such
        misrepresentation... As distinguished
        from negligence, it is always
        positive, intentional. It comprises
        all acts, omissions, and concealments
        involving a breach of a legal or
        equitable duty and resulting in
        damage to another. And includes
        anything calculated to deceive,
        whether it be a single act or
        combination of circumstances...
        Fraud, as applied to contracts,
        is the cause of an error bearing
        on a material part of the contract,
        created or contained by artifice,
        with design to obtain some unjust
        advantage to one party, or to cause
        an inconvenience or loss to the other."


        Thus, Eckankar has conducted a
        fraud of misrepresentation since
        it doesn't deliver on the Higher
        Initiations ["omissions"] required
        to attain God-Realization! [Refer
        to the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book
        2, Chapter 12.]

        Klemp, as the LEM/M, has an implied
        "contract" with his followers, but
        he only makes empty promises
        and does not fulfill his obligations,
        and yet he's ready and willing to take
        Eckists' hard earned money!

        And, let's look at Eckankar's
        "concealment" regarding Twitchell's
        plagiarisms, and that Klemp continues
        to cover-up these facts.

        Thus, Eckankar, and all religions,
        sects, and cults (unless proven to be
        guilty of higher crimes) basically have
        carte blanche,' in the U.S., and can
        make false promises for money.

        What a scam! Eckists have been paying
        for their initiations for years but have
        been locked-out of those required for
        God-Realization!

        It's no wonder that Twit followed L. Ron's
        lead. However, in Belgium, France and
        Germany these cults and sects don't
        have the same protection as "religions"
        do. This is what the U.S. should have
        done 50 years ago!

        Prometheus
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