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10/2009 Q&A Youth in ECK - Letter of Light

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  • prometheus_973
    10/2009 Questions for the Master Youth in ECK - Letter of Light BTW- My bracketed [ ] comments and caps have been added. Question (1): How do you know what
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 16, 2009
      10/2009 Questions for the Master
      Youth in ECK - Letter of Light

      BTW- My bracketed [ ] comments
      and caps have been added.

      Question (1):
      "How do you know what SUGMAD
      (God) looks like?" Vanessa Age 8

      HK: "Someone once thanked me
      for all the spiritual gifts that had
      come to him. I said, `You're welcome!"

      BUT I went on.

      `I say you're welcome because
      you know where they really come
      from...' And then I broke off. Instead,
      I waved my arms in a big circle, to
      say the gifts really come from the
      ECK, the Voice of God, the inner
      part of the Mahanta, the Living ECK
      Master."

      [Isn't the LEM the outer part?
      So, Klemp is the ECK too!]

      "Of course you know that the ECK
      [me] is simply the Voice of God,
      not the SUGMAD ITSELF. The
      ECK reveals Itself through the
      Light and Sound.

      Nothing at all can describe the
      SUGMAD, though.

      The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad says
      IT `is what there is.... It is neither
      old nor new, great or small, shaped
      or shapeless.'

      That said, the SUGMAD also has
      two parts, an inside and an outside."

      [Only two parts? Not three or infinity?]

      "Nothing can speak of the inside
      part. BUT the outer part is what
      one can know and remember after
      God-Realization.

      So that is what I know about
      SUGMAD. Thank you for this
      question." [end of 1]


      Question (2):
      "How can I learn to control
      my anger and manage my short
      temper?" Premo age 20

      HK: "It may surprise you to learn
      that most Souls go through the
      extremes of the five passions
      of the mind during their many
      incarnations here. Anger is no
      exception.

      What makes people finally moderate
      the extremes? In a word, pain!
      The further one is from a more
      balanced state of consciousness,
      the longer and harder the rebalancing
      becomes. It is our choice of whether
      to come easy or hard. BUT come
      we must to a middle ground."

      [How about HK's anger toward
      Darwin? Maybe that's why HK
      has had EMR/EMF problems!]

      "So what is anger all about?

      It is about our wanting to run
      things our way, not the ECK's
      way. In consequence, we fly
      off the handle when our plans
      get bumped, or IF someone
      does or says something we
      consider stupid. It is our stupidity
      that causes others so much pain.
      And for that we will pay."

      [What about HK "flying off
      the handle" with that Third
      Fill-in Postal Clerk mentioned
      in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter?]

      "Keep the above in mind during
      your spiritual exercises. Ask
      the Mahanta to help you soften
      your sharp edges and become
      a better person to be around."
      [end of 2]

      [Talk is cheap for Klemp!
      He's positioned himself beyond
      reproach and is, thus, Not held
      to any of the standards he creates
      for others.]


      Question (3):
      "I'm at a crossroads and so
      uncertain of where my life is
      going that I'm not sure what
      I should do (regarding college,
      study abroad, moving to a warmer
      climate, etc.).

      I'm taking my time, doing my
      spiritual exercises every day,
      and listening to you for guidance,
      but the the deadlines all around
      me are making it difficult for me
      to remember to follow the Master's
      guidance and distinguish between
      spiritual guidance and what my
      mind, family, or friends tell me
      is the best thing to do.

      How can I know what is for my
      highest good?" ---JM

      [JM will be "listening" forever and
      filling in the blanks with his imagination
      if he continues to throw common
      sense and critical thinking out the
      window! However, most ECKists,
      who don't get snail-mail replies
      from HK, do that exact same thing!]

      HK: "Do whatever you FEEL
      is best. No matter whether you
      follow another's advice or your
      own, nothing ever seems to go
      according to plan anyway."

      [Then, there's no point in wasting
      time doing the spiritual exercises,
      keeping a dream diary, or paying
      an annual membership etc., etc.]

      "So IF you ignore others' advice,
      expect some I-told-you-so's. You
      are responsible for your own life."

      [What about having every Thought,
      Word, Action, and Reaction in the
      name of the Mahanta? What's the
      point if "You" are responsible and
      will pay karmically?]

      "Do whatever offers you the most
      experience of the kind YOU want.
      Whatever your choices, how could
      they be anything BUT for your highest
      good? My love is always with you?"
      [end of 3]


      ME: Thus, Klemp is telling JM to do
      WHATEVER and make any choices
      he wants! Klemp instructing that any
      desired choice is for his "highest good"
      is simply restating the Law of Karma.
      Bad choices sometimes lead to disease,
      and death to yourself and others!
      Yet, Klemp is saying that it's all for
      the "highest" good because these
      lead to life experiences... although
      everyone knows that these are both
      positive and negative. Still, it's a learning
      experience, but isn't this simply Karma
      and what each and every Soul goes
      through?

      Why does one need an annual Eckankar
      membership? Oh, it's to receive these
      snail-mail answers that anyone else
      could have answered. Klemp has placed
      himself upon a pedestal and, therefore,
      ECKists look to him versus Soul for
      answers. Except, here, people can see
      that No middleman Mahanta is needed
      in order to make their own choices and
      to live life!

      However, look at the Catch-22 of it all!
      Klemp is saying, in his three responses,
      that as the Mahanta he is the 'Voice of God'
      and the 'ECK.' And, there is more on the
      'inner' than chelas can imagine, but he
      knows what is best for them, although,
      they are responsible for their own choices,
      but it's all good because these choices
      will give them the 'experiences' that
      they need. Can't ECKists see through
      the double talk and the scam? Apparently
      Not! They need to believe and to belong
      to a religion of like-minded followers.

      Misery (and delusion) loves company!

      And--How can so many intelligent
      and "enlightened" people be wrong?

      This is the KAL trap of religion!

      Prometheus
    • Rebazar Tarzs
      Hi Prometheus and Anyone Else!   I retained membership for two years just to get the mailings to see if anything would change.   Of course, that will never
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 16, 2009
        Hi Prometheus and Anyone Else!
         
        I retained membership for two years just to get the mailings
        to see if anything would change.
         
        Of course, that will never happen.
         
        Too much money involved.
         
        I am going to cut to the chase.
         
        To expose children to this nonsense is horrible.
         
        And that is what Harold's "Eckankar" strives to do.
         
        Also, the five passions of the mind come from what Milarepa
        called the five poisons of the mind.
         
        ECKists don't know any better because they are afraid to know any better.
         
        They are ruled by fear.
         
        Whatever happened to love?
         
        The love of God?
         
         

        --- On Fri, 10/16/09, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] 10/2009 Q&A Youth in ECK - Letter of Light
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:20 PM

         
        10/2009 Questions for the Master
        Youth in ECK - Letter of Light

        BTW- My bracketed [ ] comments
        and caps have been added.

        Question (1):
        "How do you know what SUGMAD
        (God) looks like?" Vanessa Age 8

        HK: "Someone once thanked me
        for all the spiritual gifts that had
        come to him. I said, `You're welcome!"

        BUT I went on.

        `I say you're welcome because
        you know where they really come
        from....' And then I broke off. Instead,
        I waved my arms in a big circle, to
        say the gifts really come from the
        ECK, the Voice of God, the inner
        part of the Mahanta, the Living ECK
        Master."

        [Isn't the LEM the outer part?
        So, Klemp is the ECK too!]

        "Of course you know that the ECK
        [me] is simply the Voice of God,
        not the SUGMAD ITSELF. The
        ECK reveals Itself through the
        Light and Sound.

        Nothing at all can describe the
        SUGMAD, though.

        The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad says
        IT `is what there is.... It is neither
        old nor new, great or small, shaped
        or shapeless.'

        That said, the SUGMAD also has
        two parts, an inside and an outside."

        [Only two parts? Not three or infinity?]

        "Nothing can speak of the inside
        part. BUT the outer part is what
        one can know and remember after
        God-Realization.

        So that is what I know about
        SUGMAD. Thank you for this
        question." [end of 1]

        Question (2):
        "How can I learn to control
        my anger and manage my short
        temper?" Premo age 20

        HK: "It may surprise you to learn
        that most Souls go through the
        extremes of the five passions
        of the mind during their many
        incarnations here. Anger is no
        exception.

        What makes people finally moderate
        the extremes? In a word, pain!
        The further one is from a more
        balanced state of consciousness,
        the longer and harder the rebalancing
        becomes. It is our choice of whether
        to come easy or hard. BUT come
        we must to a middle ground."

        [How about HK's anger toward
        Darwin? Maybe that's why HK
        has had EMR/EMF problems!]

        "So what is anger all about?

        It is about our wanting to run
        things our way, not the ECK's
        way. In consequence, we fly
        off the handle when our plans
        get bumped, or IF someone
        does or says something we
        consider stupid. It is our stupidity
        that causes others so much pain.
        And for that we will pay."

        [What about HK "flying off
        the handle" with that Third
        Fill-in Postal Clerk mentioned
        in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter?]

        "Keep the above in mind during
        your spiritual exercises. Ask
        the Mahanta to help you soften
        your sharp edges and become
        a better person to be around."
        [end of 2]

        [Talk is cheap for Klemp!
        He's positioned himself beyond
        reproach and is, thus, Not held
        to any of the standards he creates
        for others.]

        Question (3):
        "I'm at a crossroads and so
        uncertain of where my life is
        going that I'm not sure what
        I should do (regarding college,
        study abroad, moving to a warmer
        climate, etc.).

        I'm taking my time, doing my
        spiritual exercises every day,
        and listening to you for guidance,
        but the the deadlines all around
        me are making it difficult for me
        to remember to follow the Master's
        guidance and distinguish between
        spiritual guidance and what my
        mind, family, or friends tell me
        is the best thing to do.

        How can I know what is for my
        highest good?" ---JM

        [JM will be "listening" forever and
        filling in the blanks with his imagination
        if he continues to throw common
        sense and critical thinking out the
        window! However, most ECKists,
        who don't get snail-mail replies
        from HK, do that exact same thing!]

        HK: "Do whatever you FEEL
        is best. No matter whether you
        follow another's advice or your
        own, nothing ever seems to go
        according to plan anyway."

        [Then, there's no point in wasting
        time doing the spiritual exercises,
        keeping a dream diary, or paying
        an annual membership etc., etc.]

        "So IF you ignore others' advice,
        expect some I-told-you-so' s. You
        are responsible for your own life."

        [What about having every Thought,
        Word, Action, and Reaction in the
        name of the Mahanta? What's the
        point if "You" are responsible and
        will pay karmically?]

        "Do whatever offers you the most
        experience of the kind YOU want.
        Whatever your choices, how could
        they be anything BUT for your highest
        good? My love is always with you?"
        [end of 3]

        ME: Thus, Klemp is telling JM to do
        WHATEVER and make any choices
        he wants! Klemp instructing that any
        desired choice is for his "highest good"
        is simply restating the Law of Karma.
        Bad choices sometimes lead to disease,
        and death to yourself and others!
        Yet, Klemp is saying that it's all for
        the "highest" good because these
        lead to life experiences. .. although
        everyone knows that these are both
        positive and negative. Still, it's a learning
        experience, but isn't this simply Karma
        and what each and every Soul goes
        through?

        Why does one need an annual Eckankar
        membership? Oh, it's to receive these
        snail-mail answers that anyone else
        could have answered. Klemp has placed
        himself upon a pedestal and, therefore,
        ECKists look to him versus Soul for
        answers.. Except, here, people can see
        that No middleman Mahanta is needed
        in order to make their own choices and
        to live life!

        However, look at the Catch-22 of it all!
        Klemp is saying, in his three responses,
        that as the Mahanta he is the 'Voice of God'
        and the 'ECK.' And, there is more on the
        'inner' than chelas can imagine, but he
        knows what is best for them, although,
        they are responsible for their own choices,
        but it's all good because these choices
        will give them the 'experiences' that
        they need. Can't ECKists see through
        the double talk and the scam? Apparently
        Not! They need to believe and to belong
        to a religion of like-minded followers.

        Misery (and delusion) loves company!

        And--How can so many intelligent
        and "enlightened" people be wrong?

        This is the KAL trap of religion!

        Prometheus


      • prometheus_973
        Hello Reb and All, I have to agree that things at the ESC won t change until Klemp leaves as LEM. However, I don t see him leaving the Mahanta position. And, I
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 17, 2009
          Hello Reb and All,
          I have to agree that things
          at the ESC won't change until
          Klemp leaves as LEM. However,
          I don't see him leaving the
          Mahanta position. And, I think
          Klemp will give Joan a 12th
          and make her an ECK Master
          before retiring and appointing
          a male LEM to take his place
          at Seminars. HK'll need someone
          at the ESC to spy for him as
          she does now, but being a
          12th will give Joan special
          Kata Daki like status and
          appease the female Eckists
          who do most of the work.

          And, yes, Eckists are fearful
          and foolish and, also, ego driven.

          Half of the Eckists don't even
          understand the Eck teachings
          and the RESA Guidelines and
          want to keep their heads in the
          sand and be spoon fed. I'm thinking
          that they don't read much or
          take/teach classes and trainings
          and pay attention to details.
          Most H.I.s have no idea about
          what the "Guidelines" contain
          or of the procedures to be followed.

          It's always a measure of a religion
          by the number of thugs it has
          as members and self-appointed
          protectors. This is especially true
          of those religions like Eckankar
          that claim to be "spiritual paths"
          of the highest order. Eckankar
          certainly has its share of these
          delusional morons it seems, but
          it says volumes when they think
          that they need to defend their
          faith. They are weak and their
          religion is false and that is why
          they become upset when someone
          speaks out about it. They aren't
          use to hearing the Truth and it
          hurts coming from former H.I.
          insiders. Eckankar is a religion
          of secrets and of silence and
          of surrender. Unless an Eckist
          can mindlessly quote an EK
          brochure there is really nothing
          else to say when you're around
          other Eckists at Seminars meetings.
          It's just a numbing dumbed
          down experience where smiley
          faces are a must have as people
          search for feel good Mahanta
          stories to top the next one.
          What a waste of good money!
          Yet, year after year they never
          learn, but always want to and
          need to return.


          Prometheus


          realbizarretarzs wrote:

          Hi Prometheus and Anyone Else!

          I retained membership for two
          years just to get the mailings
          to see if anything would change.

          Of course, that will never happen.

          Too much money involved.

          I am going to cut to the chase.

          To expose children to this nonsense
          is horrible. And that is what Harold's
          "Eckankar" strives to do.

          Also, the five passions of the mind
          come from what Milarepa called
          the five poisons of the mind.

          ECKists don't know any better because
          they are afraid to know any better.

          They are ruled by fear.

          Whatever happened to love?

          The love of God?


          prometheus wrote:

          10/2009 Questions for the Master
          Youth in ECK - Letter of Light

          BTW- My bracketed [ ] comments
          and caps have been added.

          Question (1):
          "How do you know what SUGMAD
          (God) looks like?" Vanessa Age 8

          HK: "Someone once thanked me
          for all the spiritual gifts that had
          come to him. I said, `You're welcome!"

          BUT I went on.

          `I say you're welcome because
          you know where they really come
          from....' And then I broke off. Instead,
          I waved my arms in a big circle, to
          say the gifts really come from the
          ECK, the Voice of God, the inner
          part of the Mahanta, the Living ECK
          Master."

          [Isn't the LEM the outer part?
          So, Klemp is the ECK too!]

          "Of course you know that the ECK
          [me] is simply the Voice of God,
          not the SUGMAD ITSELF. The
          ECK reveals Itself through the
          Light and Sound.

          Nothing at all can describe the
          SUGMAD, though.

          The Shariyat-Ki- Sugmad says
          IT `is what there is.... It is neither
          old nor new, great or small, shaped
          or shapeless.'

          That said, the SUGMAD also has
          two parts, an inside and an outside."

          [Only two parts? Not three or infinity?]

          "Nothing can speak of the inside
          part. BUT the outer part is what
          one can know and remember after
          God-Realization.

          So that is what I know about
          SUGMAD. Thank you for this
          question." [end of 1]

          Question (2):
          "How can I learn to control
          my anger and manage my short
          temper?" Premo age 20

          HK: "It may surprise you to learn
          that most Souls go through the
          extremes of the five passions
          of the mind during their many
          incarnations here. Anger is no
          exception.

          What makes people finally moderate
          the extremes? In a word, pain!
          The further one is from a more
          balanced state of consciousness,
          the longer and harder the rebalancing
          becomes. It is our choice of whether
          to come easy or hard. BUT come
          we must to a middle ground."

          [How about HK's anger toward
          Darwin? Maybe that's why HK
          has had EMR/EMF problems!]

          "So what is anger all about?

          It is about our wanting to run
          things our way, not the ECK's
          way. In consequence, we fly
          off the handle when our plans
          get bumped, or IF someone
          does or says something we
          consider stupid. It is our stupidity
          that causes others so much pain.
          And for that we will pay."

          [What about HK "flying off
          the handle" with that Third
          Fill-in Postal Clerk mentioned
          in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter?]

          "Keep the above in mind during
          your spiritual exercises. Ask
          the Mahanta to help you soften
          your sharp edges and become
          a better person to be around."
          [end of 2]

          [Talk is cheap for Klemp!
          He's positioned himself beyond
          reproach and is, thus, Not held
          to any of the standards he creates
          for others.]

          Question (3):
          "I'm at a crossroads and so
          uncertain of where my life is
          going that I'm not sure what
          I should do (regarding college,
          study abroad, moving to a warmer
          climate, etc.).

          I'm taking my time, doing my
          spiritual exercises every day,
          and listening to you for guidance,
          but the the deadlines all around
          me are making it difficult for me
          to remember to follow the Master's
          guidance and distinguish between
          spiritual guidance and what my
          mind, family, or friends tell me
          is the best thing to do.

          How can I know what is for my
          highest good?" ---JM

          [JM will be "listening" forever and
          filling in the blanks with his imagination
          if he continues to throw common
          sense and critical thinking out the
          window! However, most ECKists,
          who don't get snail-mail replies
          from HK, do that exact same thing!]

          HK: "Do whatever you FEEL
          is best. No matter whether you
          follow another's advice or your
          own, nothing ever seems to go
          according to plan anyway."

          [Then, there's no point in wasting
          time doing the spiritual exercises,
          keeping a dream diary, or paying
          an annual membership etc., etc.]

          "So IF you ignore others' advice,
          expect some I-told-you-so' s. You
          are responsible for your own life."

          [What about having every Thought,
          Word, Action, and Reaction in the
          name of the Mahanta? What's the
          point if "You" are responsible and
          will pay karmically?]

          "Do whatever offers you the most
          experience of the kind YOU want.
          Whatever your choices, how could
          they be anything BUT for your highest
          good? My love is always with you?"
          [end of 3]

          ME: Thus, Klemp is telling JM to do
          WHATEVER and make any choices
          he wants! Klemp instructing that any
          desired choice is for his "highest good"
          is simply restating the Law of Karma.
          Bad choices sometimes lead to disease,
          and death to yourself and others!
          Yet, Klemp is saying that it's all for
          the "highest" good because these
          lead to life experiences. .. although
          everyone knows that these are both
          positive and negative. Still, it's a learning
          experience, but isn't this simply Karma
          and what each and every Soul goes
          through?

          Why does one need an annual Eckankar
          membership? Oh, it's to receive these
          snail-mail answers that anyone else
          could have answered. Klemp has placed
          himself upon a pedestal and, therefore,
          ECKists look to him versus Soul for
          answers.. Except, here, people can see
          that No middleman Mahanta is needed
          in order to make their own choices and
          to live life!

          However, look at the Catch-22 of it all!
          Klemp is saying, in his three responses,
          that as the Mahanta he is the 'Voice of God'
          and the 'ECK.' And, there is more on the
          'inner' than chelas can imagine, but he
          knows what is best for them, although,
          they are responsible for their own choices,
          but it's all good because these choices
          will give them the 'experiences' that
          they need. Can't ECKists see through
          the double talk and the scam? Apparently
          Not! They need to believe and to belong
          to a religion of like-minded followers.

          Misery (and delusion) loves company!

          And--How can so many intelligent
          and "enlightened" people be wrong?

          This is the KAL trap of religion!

          Prometheus
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