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Re: Repost: From Klemp's new book, "Those Wonderful Eck Masters"

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  • postekcon
    SHARIYAT (books currently in print) - most common quotation: When the chela (student of eckankar) is ready the master will appear! SHARIYAT (book XII, not
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 4, 2009
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      SHARIYAT (books currently in print) - most common quotation:
      "When the chela (student of eckankar) is ready the master will appear!"

      SHARIYAT (book XII, not yet in print) - most probable best quote:
      When the chela is ready the master will disappear!
      -Postekcon



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > This is a repost from Jan. 2006! I thought it would be good to bring it
      > back to the front page . . . this was one of several discussions about
      > Klemp's writings in "Those Wonderful Eck Masters." It is pertinent to
      > take a good look at the writings in this book because it is the most
      > current expose' of Klemp's thinking and scheming in holding on to
      > the leadership of eckankar! Klemp is comfy where he is at and isn't
      > about to let it go. Also, in some other threads there are discussons on
      > the "real" motive Klemp had for writing this book . . . his feeble attempt
      > to promote his wife Joan as an eck master! Too funny really! : )
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
      >
      > This is a very enlightening excerpt from HK's new book, "Those
      > Wonderful Eck Masters," Chapter 11, The Mahanta, the Living ECK
      > Master--A Modern Prophet SRI Harold Klemp (Wah Z), page 211.
      >
      > As with the infamous postal worker story, once again HK shows his
      > unloving and nasty side. In this case, if you dare to challenge HK's
      > authority or complain, this is what he calls you and this is what he
      > thinks of you, this so called loving spiritual leader!
      >
      > Read it and weep or read it and laugh--maybe, it's a combination of
      > both, but HK demands respect and if he doesn't get it, watch out!
      >
      > Here's the excerpt:
      >
      > "Belief in the Master's ever-present company relies upon an
      > individual's degree of unfoldment. Actual inner experiences help one
      > move to a greater understanding of the ways of divine revelation.
      > But if he chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to, say,
      > an inability to control some mental passion or habit like anger,
      > then his spiritual momentum stops. It's that simple. Of course, a
      > headstrong follower always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta, the
      > Living ECK Master when his attempts to advance in ECK come to
      > nothing."
      >
      > "But such an attitude changes nothing. The individual is a loser and
      > will continue to be a loser until he adopts the practices of a
      > winner."
      >
      > "I'm used to such misdirected slings. They go with my position. I
      > realize that at some point an individual will break free of his
      > holding pattern and again soar higher. It's when he's seen that all
      > responsibility for his unfoldment lies with him alone."
      >
      > ####
      >
      > Interesting comments by HK. . .
      >
      > First, HK will not take the responsibility for a member's inability
      > to advance in ECK, but yet despite this, HK expects the frustrated
      > chela to continue to follow HK's leadership. HK claims the chela
      > is being "headstrong"--uncooperative!
      >
      > Second, if the chela dares to blame HK for his not advancing in ECK,
      > HK calls him a loser. So, the seeker not only is disappointed that
      > ECK is not working for him, but now he is being called a loser by
      > the big Spiritual Leader, Mr. Klemp! Slap!
      >
      > Third, but then HK explains in the end that the seeker's ability to
      > unfold lies within himself--this is the truth the seeker must
      > discover. So, then, of course, I have to ask why does one need
      > those "wonderful eck masters?" It seems obvious in this "truthful"
      > statement that they are not needed at all. And, how about that karma
      > HK is supposed to be taking on for his chelas? How is it that this
      > karma and negativity which caused the lack of advancement was not
      > corrected by the all powerful Mahanta?
      >
      > Well, here again these are just more confusing statements and also
      > unloving comments by Harold Klemp. Where is HK's loving heart in
      > this writing? Answer: It's not there! He demands respect and
      > obedience--of course, he says he's used to those who complain, but
      > yet if he is, why does he call them "losers?" I wonder why such an
      > authority and world spiritual leader LOL like HK can't just find and
      > take the higher road!
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > --- End forwarded message ---
      >
    • mishmisha9
      That s a good one!! But I think Shariyat (book XII, not in print) won t make it to publication until Klemp is off the eck throne. After all these 25 years plus
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 4, 2009
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        That's a good one!! But I think Shariyat (book XII, not in print) won't make it to publication until Klemp is off the eck throne. After all these 25 years plus he has seated himself there, he still has not written a Shariyat! At this point, the best bet is he won't! And a good reason why he won't is because he wouldn't know where to begin . . . he hasn't and he can't come up with anything new to write about. Amazing how his lack of talent remains unchallenged by his followers. But I guess many are waiting for change and hopeful the next l.e.m. will be better . . . . hope springs eternal in many chelas' hearts! : )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@...> wrote:
        >
        > SHARIYAT (books currently in print) - most common quotation:
        > "When the chela (student of eckankar) is ready the master will appear!"
        >
        > SHARIYAT (book XII, not yet in print) - most probable best quote:
        > When the chela is ready the master will disappear!
        > -Postekcon
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
        > >
        > > This is a repost from Jan. 2006! I thought it would be good to bring it
        > > back to the front page . . . this was one of several discussions about
        > > Klemp's writings in "Those Wonderful Eck Masters." It is pertinent to
        > > take a good look at the writings in this book because it is the most
        > > current expose' of Klemp's thinking and scheming in holding on to
        > > the leadership of eckankar! Klemp is comfy where he is at and isn't
        > > about to let it go. Also, in some other threads there are discussons on
        > > the "real" motive Klemp had for writing this book . . . his feeble attempt
        > > to promote his wife Joan as an eck master! Too funny really! : )
        > >
        > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
        > >
        > > This is a very enlightening excerpt from HK's new book, "Those
        > > Wonderful Eck Masters," Chapter 11, The Mahanta, the Living ECK
        > > Master--A Modern Prophet SRI Harold Klemp (Wah Z), page 211.
        > >
        > > As with the infamous postal worker story, once again HK shows his
        > > unloving and nasty side. In this case, if you dare to challenge HK's
        > > authority or complain, this is what he calls you and this is what he
        > > thinks of you, this so called loving spiritual leader!
        > >
        > > Read it and weep or read it and laugh--maybe, it's a combination of
        > > both, but HK demands respect and if he doesn't get it, watch out!
        > >
        > > Here's the excerpt:
        > >
        > > "Belief in the Master's ever-present company relies upon an
        > > individual's degree of unfoldment. Actual inner experiences help one
        > > move to a greater understanding of the ways of divine revelation.
        > > But if he chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to, say,
        > > an inability to control some mental passion or habit like anger,
        > > then his spiritual momentum stops. It's that simple. Of course, a
        > > headstrong follower always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta, the
        > > Living ECK Master when his attempts to advance in ECK come to
        > > nothing."
        > >
        > > "But such an attitude changes nothing. The individual is a loser and
        > > will continue to be a loser until he adopts the practices of a
        > > winner."
        > >
        > > "I'm used to such misdirected slings. They go with my position. I
        > > realize that at some point an individual will break free of his
        > > holding pattern and again soar higher. It's when he's seen that all
        > > responsibility for his unfoldment lies with him alone."
        > >
        > > ####
        > >
        > > Interesting comments by HK. . .
        > >
        > > First, HK will not take the responsibility for a member's inability
        > > to advance in ECK, but yet despite this, HK expects the frustrated
        > > chela to continue to follow HK's leadership. HK claims the chela
        > > is being "headstrong"--uncooperative!
        > >
        > > Second, if the chela dares to blame HK for his not advancing in ECK,
        > > HK calls him a loser. So, the seeker not only is disappointed that
        > > ECK is not working for him, but now he is being called a loser by
        > > the big Spiritual Leader, Mr. Klemp! Slap!
        > >
        > > Third, but then HK explains in the end that the seeker's ability to
        > > unfold lies within himself--this is the truth the seeker must
        > > discover. So, then, of course, I have to ask why does one need
        > > those "wonderful eck masters?" It seems obvious in this "truthful"
        > > statement that they are not needed at all. And, how about that karma
        > > HK is supposed to be taking on for his chelas? How is it that this
        > > karma and negativity which caused the lack of advancement was not
        > > corrected by the all powerful Mahanta?
        > >
        > > Well, here again these are just more confusing statements and also
        > > unloving comments by Harold Klemp. Where is HK's loving heart in
        > > this writing? Answer: It's not there! He demands respect and
        > > obedience--of course, he says he's used to those who complain, but
        > > yet if he is, why does he call them "losers?" I wonder why such an
        > > authority and world spiritual leader LOL like HK can't just find and
        > > take the higher road!
        > >
        > > Mish
        > >
        > > --- End forwarded message ---
        > >
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        If the shariyat was made up and / or plagiarized and compiled from other sources. And if this has been discovered to be true. I don t think Harold K. would
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 4, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          If the shariyat was "made up" and / or plagiarized
          and compiled from other sources. And if this has
          been discovered to be true. I don't think Harold K.
          would knowingly try to "make up", plagiarize, or
          compile more if he felt the materail "had to be"
          associated with certain "Eck Masters". It could
          amount to knowingly creating more pseudo info,
          or myths. I don't think the L.E.M. and Eckankar
          want to have that reputation nowadays. Not to a
          very great extent.

          My hunch is that Harold doesn't want to create
          any more myths than there already are. Thanks
          to Paul and others who wrote up the earlier works.

          Have you noticed there haven't been any new
          discourses in years?

          Of course, if the context is clarified as myth, or
          legend, then that opens up possibilities. All the
          possibilities available to a science fiction writer,
          etc.

          Etznab


          -----Original Message-----
          From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2009 9:11 am
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Repost: From Klemp's new
          book, "Those Wonderful Eck Masters"

           






          That's a good one!! But I think Shariyat (book XII, not in print) won't
          make it to publication until Klemp is off the eck throne. After all
          these 25 years plus he has seated himself there, he still has not
          written a Shariyat! At this point, the best bet is he won't! And a good
          reason why he won't is=2
          0because he wouldn't know where to begin . . . he
          hasn't and he can't come up with anything new to write about. Amazing
          how his lack of talent remains unchallenged by his followers. But I
          guess many are waiting for change and hopeful the next l.e.m. will be
          better . . . . hope springs eternal in many chelas' hearts! : )



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon"
          <postekcon@...> wrote:

          >

          > SHARIYAT (books currently in print) - most common quotation:

          > "When the chela (student of eckankar) is ready the master will
          appear!"

          >

          > SHARIYAT (book XII, not yet in print) - most probable best quote:

          > When the chela is ready the master will disappear!

          > -Postekcon

          >

          >

          >

          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@> wrote:

          > >

          > > This is a repost from Jan. 2006! I thought it would be good
          to bring it

          > > back to the front page . . . this was one of several
          discussions about

          > > Klemp's writings in "Those Wonderful Eck Masters." It is
          pertinent to

          > > take a good look at the writings in this book because it is
          the most

          > > current expose' of Klemp's thinking and scheming in holding
          on to

          > > the leadership of eckankar! Klemp is comfy where he is at and
          isn't

          > > about
          to let it go. Also, in some other threads there are
          discussons on

          > > the "real" motive Klemp had for writing this book . . . his
          feeble attempt

          > > to promote his wife Joan as an eck master! Too funny really!
          : )

          > >

          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
          "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:

          > >

          > > This is a very enlightening excerpt from HK's new book,
          "Those

          > > Wonderful Eck Masters," Chapter 11, The Mahanta, the Living
          ECK

          > > Master--A Modern Prophet SRI Harold Klemp (Wah Z), page 211.

          > >

          > > As with the infamous postal worker story, once again HK shows
          his

          > > unloving and nasty side. In this case, if you dare to
          challenge HK's

          > > authority or complain, this is what he calls you and this is
          what he

          > > thinks of you, this so called loving spiritual leader!

          > >

          > > Read it and weep or read it and laugh--maybe, it's a
          combination of

          > > both, but HK demands respect and if he doesn't get it, watch
          out!

          > >

          > > Here's the excerpt:

          > >

          > > "Belief in the Master's ever-present company relies upon an

          > > individual's degree of unfoldment. Actual inner experiences
          help one

          > > move to a greater understanding of the ways of divine
          revel
          ation.

          > > But if he chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to,
          say,

          > > an inability to control some mental passion or habit like
          anger,

          > > then his spiritual momentum stops. It's that simple. Of
          course, a

          > > headstrong follower always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta,
          the

          > > Living ECK Master when his attempts to advance in ECK come to

          > > nothing."

          > >

          > > "But such an attitude changes nothing. The individual is a
          loser and

          > > will continue to be a loser until he adopts the practices of
          a

          > > winner."

          > >

          > > "I'm used to such misdirected slings. They go with my
          position. I

          > > realize that at some point an individual will break free of
          his

          > > holding pattern and again soar higher. It's when he's seen
          that all

          > > responsibility for his unfoldment lies with him alone."

          > >

          > > ####

          > >

          > > Interesting comments by HK. . .

          > >

          > > First, HK will not take the responsibility for a member's
          inability

          > > to advance in ECK, but yet despite this, HK expects the
          frustrated

          > > chela to continue to follow HK's leadership. HK claims the
          chela

          > > is being "headstrong"--uncooperative!

          > >

          > > Second, if=2
          0the chela dares to blame HK for his not advancing
          in ECK,

          > > HK calls him a loser. So, the seeker not only is disappointed
          that

          > > ECK is not working for him, but now he is being called a
          loser by

          > > the big Spiritual Leader, Mr. Klemp! Slap!

          > >

          > > Third, but then HK explains in the end that the seeker's
          ability to

          > > unfold lies within himself--this is the truth the seeker must

          > > discover. So, then, of course, I have to ask why does one
          need

          > > those "wonderful eck masters?" It seems obvious in this
          "truthful"

          > > statement that they are not needed at all. And, how about
          that karma

          > > HK is supposed to be taking on for his chelas? How is it that
          this

          > > karma and negativity which caused the lack of advancement was
          not

          > > corrected by the all powerful Mahanta?

          > >

          > > Well, here again these are just more confusing statements and
          also

          > > unloving comments by Harold Klemp. Where is HK's loving heart
          in

          > > this writing? Answer: It's not there! He demands respect and

          > > obedience--of course, he says he's used to those who
          complain, but

          > > yet if he is, why does he call them "losers?" I wonder why
          such an

          > > authority and world spiritual leader LOL like HK can't just

          find and

          > > take the higher road!

          > >

          > > Mish

          > >

          > > --- End forwarded message ---

          > >

          >
        • Rebazar Tarzs
          If only Julian Johnson had lived longer! Maybe, then, there would have been twelve!   Darwin could have copied three in ten years,and Harold could have copied
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 4, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            If only Julian Johnson had lived longer! Maybe, then, there would have
            been twelve!
             
            Darwin could have copied three in ten years,and Harold could have
            copied six in nearly thirty years.
             
             

            --- On Sun, 10/4/09, mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

            From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...>
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Repost: From Klemp's new book, "Those Wonderful Eck Masters"
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 2:11 PM

             
            That's a good one!! But I think Shariyat (book XII, not in print) won't make it to publication until Klemp is off the eck throne. After all these 25 years plus he has seated himself there, he still has not written a Shariyat! At this point, the best bet is he won't! And a good reason why he won't is because he wouldn't know where to begin . . . he hasn't and he can't come up with anything new to write about. Amazing how his lack of talent remains unchallenged by his followers. But I guess many are waiting for change and hopeful the next l.e.m. will be better . . . . hope springs eternal in many chelas' hearts! : )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@. ..> wrote:
            >
            > SHARIYAT (books currently in print) - most common quotation:
            > "When the chela (student of eckankar) is ready the master will appear!"
            >
            > SHARIYAT (book XII, not yet in print) - most probable best quote:
            > When the chela is ready the master will disappear!
            > -Postekcon
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > This is a repost from Jan. 2006! I thought it would be good to bring it
            > > back to the front page . . . this was one of several discussions about
            > > Klemp's writings in "Those Wonderful Eck Masters." It is pertinent to
            > > take a good look at the writings in this book because it is the most
            > > current expose' of Klemp's thinking and scheming in holding on to
            > > the leadership of eckankar! Klemp is comfy where he is at and isn't
            > > about to let it go. Also, in some other threads there are discussons on
            > > the "real" motive Klemp had for writing this book . . . his feeble attempt
            > > to promote his wife Joan as an eck master! Too funny really! : )
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > This is a very enlightening excerpt from HK's new book, "Those
            > > Wonderful Eck Masters," Chapter 11, The Mahanta, the Living ECK
            > > Master--A Modern Prophet SRI Harold Klemp (Wah Z), page 211.
            > >
            > > As with the infamous postal worker story, once again HK shows his
            > > unloving and nasty side. In this case, if you dare to challenge HK's
            > > authority or complain, this is what he calls you and this is what he
            > > thinks of you, this so called loving spiritual leader!
            > >
            > > Read it and weep or read it and laugh--maybe, it's a combination of
            > > both, but HK demands respect and if he doesn't get it, watch out!
            > >
            > > Here's the excerpt:
            > >
            > > "Belief in the Master's ever-present company relies upon an
            > > individual's degree of unfoldment. Actual inner experiences help one
            > > move to a greater understanding of the ways of divine revelation.
            > > But if he chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to, say,
            > > an inability to control some mental passion or habit like anger,
            > > then his spiritual momentum stops. It's that simple. Of course, a
            > > headstrong follower always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta, the
            > > Living ECK Master when his attempts to advance in ECK come to
            > > nothing."
            > >
            > > "But such an attitude changes nothing. The individual is a loser and
            > > will continue to be a loser until he adopts the practices of a
            > > winner."
            > >
            > > "I'm used to such misdirected slings. They go with my position. I
            > > realize that at some point an individual will break free of his
            > > holding pattern and again soar higher. It's when he's seen that all
            > > responsibility for his unfoldment lies with him alone."
            > >
            > > ####
            > >
            > > Interesting comments by HK. . .
            > >
            > > First, HK will not take the responsibility for a member's inability
            > > to advance in ECK, but yet despite this, HK expects the frustrated
            > > chela to continue to follow HK's leadership. HK claims the chela
            > > is being "headstrong" --uncooperative!
            > >
            > > Second, if the chela dares to blame HK for his not advancing in ECK,
            > > HK calls him a loser. So, the seeker not only is disappointed that
            > > ECK is not working for him, but now he is being called a loser by
            > > the big Spiritual Leader, Mr. Klemp! Slap!
            > >
            > > Third, but then HK explains in the end that the seeker's ability to
            > > unfold lies within himself--this is the truth the seeker must
            > > discover. So, then, of course, I have to ask why does one need
            > > those "wonderful eck masters?" It seems obvious in this "truthful"
            > > statement that they are not needed at all. And, how about that karma
            > > HK is supposed to be taking on for his chelas? How is it that this
            > > karma and negativity which caused the lack of advancement was not
            > > corrected by the all powerful Mahanta?
            > >
            > > Well, here again these are just more confusing statements and also
            > > unloving comments by Harold Klemp. Where is HK's loving heart in
            > > this writing? Answer: It's not there! He demands respect and
            > > obedience--of course, he says he's used to those who complain, but
            > > yet if he is, why does he call them "losers?" I wonder why such an
            > > authority and world spiritual leader LOL like HK can't just find and
            > > take the higher road!
            > >
            > > Mish
            > >
            > > --- End forwarded message ---
            > >
            >


          • Rebazar Tarzs
            Yes, I ran out of discourses sometime in the nineties. That made me wonder about things.   (Or was it the eighties? It s been so long, I don t honestly
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 4, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Yes, I ran out of discourses sometime in the nineties.
              That made me wonder about things.
               
              (Or was it the eighties? It's been so long, I don't honestly
              remember.)
               
              (I do remember being surprised.)   
               
              And no, I mean you are right, Harold can't plagiarize because
              of the internet. So what he does do is find stories written by
              others and tell them or re-tell them, implying that they came
              from him.
               
              It is easier to get away with paraphrasing when one does it
              verbally as opposed to the written word.
               
                
               
                 

              --- On Sun, 10/4/09, etznab@... <etznab@...> wrote:

              From: etznab@... <etznab@...>
              Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Repost: From Klemp's new book, "Those Wonderful Eck Masters"
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups..com
              Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 3:11 PM

               
              If the shariyat was "made up" and / or plagiarized
              and compiled from other sources. And if this has
              been discovered to be true. I don't think Harold K.
              would knowingly try to "make up", plagiarize, or
              compile more if he felt the materail "had to be"
              associated with certain "Eck Masters". It could
              amount to knowingly creating more pseudo info,
              or myths. I don't think the L.E.M. and Eckankar
              want to have that reputation nowadays. Not to a
              very great extent.

              My hunch is that Harold doesn't want to create
              any more myths than there already are. Thanks
              to Paul and others who wrote up the earlier works.

              Have you noticed there haven't been any new
              discourses in years?

              Of course, if the context is clarified as myth, or
              legend, then that opens up possibilities.. All the
              possibilities available to a science fiction writer,
              etc.

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@yahoo. com>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
              Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2009 9:11 am
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: Repost: From Klemp's new
              book, "Those Wonderful Eck Masters"

               

              That's a good one!! But I think Shariyat (book XII, not in print) won't
              make it to publication until Klemp is off the eck throne. After all
              these 25 years plus he has seated himself there, he still has not
              written a Shariyat! At this point, the best bet is he won't! And a good
              reason why he won't is=2
              0because he wouldn't know where to begin . . . he
              hasn't and he can't come up with anything new to write about. Amazing
              how his lack of talent remains unchallenged by his followers. But I
              guess many are waiting for change and hopeful the next l.e.m. will be
              better . . . . hope springs eternal in many chelas' hearts! : )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "postekcon"
              &lt;postekcon@ ...&gt; wrote:

              &gt;

              &gt; SHARIYAT (books currently in print) - most common quotation:

              &gt; "When the chela (student of eckankar) is ready the master will
              appear!"

              &gt;

              &gt; SHARIYAT (book XII, not yet in print) - most probable best quote:

              &gt; When the chela is ready the master will disappear!

              &gt; -Postekcon

              &gt;

              &gt;

              &gt;

              &gt; --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "mishmisha9"
              &lt;mishmisha9@ &gt; wrote:

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; This is a repost from Jan. 2006! I thought it would be good
              to bring it

              &gt; &gt; back to the front page . . . this was one of several
              discussions about

              &gt; &gt; Klemp's writings in "Those Wonderful Eck Masters." It is
              pertinent to

              &gt; &gt; take a good look at the writings in this book because it is
              the most

              &gt; &gt; current expose' of Klemp's thinking and scheming in holding
              on to

              &gt; &gt; the leadership of eckankar! Klemp is comfy where he is at and
              isn't

              &gt; &gt; about
              to let it go. Also, in some other threads there are
              discussons on

              &gt; &gt; the "real" motive Klemp had for writing this book . . . his
              feeble attempt

              &gt; &gt; to promote his wife Joan as an eck master! Too funny really!
              : )

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com,
              "mishmisha9" &lt;mishmisha9@ &gt; wrote:

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; This is a very enlightening excerpt from HK's new book,
              "Those

              &gt; &gt; Wonderful Eck Masters," Chapter 11, The Mahanta, the Living
              ECK

              &gt; &gt; Master--A Modern Prophet SRI Harold Klemp (Wah Z), page 211.

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; As with the infamous postal worker story, once again HK shows
              his

              &gt; &gt; unloving and nasty side. In this case, if you dare to
              challenge HK's

              &gt; &gt; authority or complain, this is what he calls you and this is
              what he

              &gt; &gt; thinks of you, this so called loving spiritual leader!

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; Read it and weep or read it and laugh--maybe, it's a
              combination of

              &gt; &gt; both, but HK demands respect and if he doesn't get it, watch
              out!

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; Here's the excerpt:

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; "Belief in the Master's ever-present company relies upon an

              &gt; &gt; individual's degree of unfoldment. Actual inner experiences
              help one

              &gt; &gt; move to a greater understanding of the ways of divine
              revel
              ation.

              &gt; &gt; But if he chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to,
              say,

              &gt; &gt; an inability to control some mental passion or habit like
              anger,

              &gt; &gt; then his spiritual momentum stops. It's that simple. Of
              course, a

              &gt; &gt; headstrong follower always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta,
              the

              &gt; &gt; Living ECK Master when his attempts to advance in ECK come to

              &gt; &gt; nothing."

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; "But such an attitude changes nothing. The individual is a
              loser and

              &gt; &gt; will continue to be a loser until he adopts the practices of
              a

              &gt; &gt; winner."

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; "I'm used to such misdirected slings. They go with my
              position. I

              &gt; &gt; realize that at some point an individual will break free of
              his

              &gt; &gt; holding pattern and again soar higher. It's when he's seen
              that all

              &gt; &gt; responsibility for his unfoldment lies with him alone."

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; ####

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; Interesting comments by HK. . .

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; First, HK will not take the responsibility for a member's
              inability

              &gt; &gt; to advance in ECK, but yet despite this, HK expects the
              frustrated

              &gt; &gt; chela to continue to follow HK's leadership. HK claims the
              chela

              &gt; &gt; is being "headstrong" --uncooperative!

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; Second, if=2
              0the chela dares to blame HK for his not advancing
              in ECK,

              &gt; &gt; HK calls him a loser. So, the seeker not only is disappointed
              that

              &gt; &gt; ECK is not working for him, but now he is being called a
              loser by

              &gt; &gt; the big Spiritual Leader, Mr. Klemp! Slap!

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; Third, but then HK explains in the end that the seeker's
              ability to

              &gt; &gt; unfold lies within himself--this is the truth the seeker must

              &gt; &gt; discover. So, then, of course, I have to ask why does one
              need

              &gt; &gt; those "wonderful eck masters?" It seems obvious in this
              "truthful"

              &gt; &gt; statement that they are not needed at all. And, how about
              that karma

              &gt; &gt; HK is supposed to be taking on for his chelas? How is it that
              this

              &gt; &gt; karma and negativity which caused the lack of advancement was
              not

              &gt; &gt; corrected by the all powerful Mahanta?

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; Well, here again these are just more confusing statements and
              also

              &gt; &gt; unloving comments by Harold Klemp. Where is HK's loving heart
              in

              &gt; &gt; this writing? Answer: It's not there! He demands respect and

              &gt; &gt; obedience--of course, he says he's used to those who
              complain, but

              &gt; &gt; yet if he is, why does he call them "losers?" I wonder why
              such an

              &gt; &gt; authority and world spiritual leader LOL like HK can't just

              find and

              &gt; &gt; take the higher road!

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; Mish

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt; &gt; --- End forwarded message ---

              &gt; &gt;

              &gt;


            • postekcon
              Yes Etznab I fully agree, and it explains why HK & team were most anxious to secure ALL of Paul Twitchell s unpublished works, at any price, from Gail
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 4, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Yes Etznab I fully agree, and it explains why HK & team were most anxious to secure ALL of Paul Twitchell's unpublished works, at any price, from Gail Twitchell.

                At very best all they can do right now is some damage limitation, and 'pray' their business plans might last out a bit longer!
                [Now that they've made themselves a 'religion' they can legitimately use prayer (mental manipulation) to try control people/events, rather than use undirectional intention, as was always taught in the original eckankar]
                -Postekcon


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                >
                > If the shariyat was "made up" and / or plagiarized
                > and compiled from other sources. And if this has
                > been discovered to be true. I don't think Harold K.
                > would knowingly try to "make up", plagiarize, or
                > compile more if he felt the materail "had to be"
                > associated with certain "Eck Masters". It could
                > amount to knowingly creating more pseudo info,
                > or myths. I don't think the L.E.M. and Eckankar
                > want to have that reputation nowadays. Not to a
                > very great extent.
                >
                > My hunch is that Harold doesn't want to create
                > any more myths than there already are. Thanks
                > to Paul and others who wrote up the earlier works.
                >
                > Have you noticed there haven't been any new
                > discourses in years?
                >
                > Of course, if the context is clarified as myth, or
                > legend, then that opens up possibilities. All the
                > possibilities available to a science fiction writer,
                > etc.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: mishmisha9 <mishmisha9@...>
                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2009 9:11 am
                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Repost: From Klemp's new
                > book, "Those Wonderful Eck Masters"
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > That's a good one!! But I think Shariyat (book XII, not in print) won't
                > make it to publication until Klemp is off the eck throne. After all
                > these 25 years plus he has seated himself there, he still has not
                > written a Shariyat! At this point, the best bet is he won't! And a good
                > reason why he won't is=2
                > 0because he wouldn't know where to begin . . . he
                > hasn't and he can't come up with anything new to write about. Amazing
                > how his lack of talent remains unchallenged by his followers. But I
                > guess many are waiting for change and hopeful the next l.e.m. will be
                > better . . . . hope springs eternal in many chelas' hearts! : )
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon"
                > postekcon@ wrote:
                >
                > >
                >
                > > SHARIYAT (books currently in print) - most common quotation:
                >
                > > "When the chela (student of eckankar) is ready the master will
                > appear!"
                >
                > >
                >
                > > SHARIYAT (book XII, not yet in print) - most probable best quote:
                >
                > > When the chela is ready the master will disappear!
                >
                > > -Postekcon
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > This is a repost from Jan. 2006! I thought it would be good
                > to bring it
                >
                > > > back to the front page . . . this was one of several
                > discussions about
                >
                > > > Klemp's writings in "Those Wonderful Eck Masters." It is
                > pertinent to
                >
                > > > take a good look at the writings in this book because it is
                > the most
                >
                > > > current expose' of Klemp's thinking and scheming in holding
                > on to
                >
                > > > the leadership of eckankar! Klemp is comfy where he is at and
                > isn't
                >
                > > > about
                > to let it go. Also, in some other threads there are
                > discussons on
                >
                > > > the "real" motive Klemp had for writing this book . . . his
                > feeble attempt
                >
                > > > to promote his wife Joan as an eck master! Too funny really!
                > : )
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                > "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > This is a very enlightening excerpt from HK's new book,
                > "Those
                >
                > > > Wonderful Eck Masters," Chapter 11, The Mahanta, the Living
                > ECK
                >
                > > > Master--A Modern Prophet SRI Harold Klemp (Wah Z), page 211.
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > As with the infamous postal worker story, once again HK shows
                > his
                >
                > > > unloving and nasty side. In this case, if you dare to
                > challenge HK's
                >
                > > > authority or complain, this is what he calls you and this is
                > what he
                >
                > > > thinks of you, this so called loving spiritual leader!
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Read it and weep or read it and laugh--maybe, it's a
                > combination of
                >
                > > > both, but HK demands respect and if he doesn't get it, watch
                > out!
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Here's the excerpt:
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > "Belief in the Master's ever-present company relies upon an
                >
                > > > individual's degree of unfoldment. Actual inner experiences
                > help one
                >
                > > > move to a greater understanding of the ways of divine
                > revel
                > ation.
                >
                > > > But if he chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to,
                > say,
                >
                > > > an inability to control some mental passion or habit like
                > anger,
                >
                > > > then his spiritual momentum stops. It's that simple. Of
                > course, a
                >
                > > > headstrong follower always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta,
                > the
                >
                > > > Living ECK Master when his attempts to advance in ECK come to
                >
                > > > nothing."
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > "But such an attitude changes nothing. The individual is a
                > loser and
                >
                > > > will continue to be a loser until he adopts the practices of
                > a
                >
                > > > winner."
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > "I'm used to such misdirected slings. They go with my
                > position. I
                >
                > > > realize that at some point an individual will break free of
                > his
                >
                > > > holding pattern and again soar higher. It's when he's seen
                > that all
                >
                > > > responsibility for his unfoldment lies with him alone."
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > ####
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Interesting comments by HK. . .
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > First, HK will not take the responsibility for a member's
                > inability
                >
                > > > to advance in ECK, but yet despite this, HK expects the
                > frustrated
                >
                > > > chela to continue to follow HK's leadership. HK claims the
                > chela
                >
                > > > is being "headstrong"--uncooperative!
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Second, if=2
                > 0the chela dares to blame HK for his not advancing
                > in ECK,
                >
                > > > HK calls him a loser. So, the seeker not only is disappointed
                > that
                >
                > > > ECK is not working for him, but now he is being called a
                > loser by
                >
                > > > the big Spiritual Leader, Mr. Klemp! Slap!
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Third, but then HK explains in the end that the seeker's
                > ability to
                >
                > > > unfold lies within himself--this is the truth the seeker must
                >
                > > > discover. So, then, of course, I have to ask why does one
                > need
                >
                > > > those "wonderful eck masters?" It seems obvious in this
                > "truthful"
                >
                > > > statement that they are not needed at all. And, how about
                > that karma
                >
                > > > HK is supposed to be taking on for his chelas? How is it that
                > this
                >
                > > > karma and negativity which caused the lack of advancement was
                > not
                >
                > > > corrected by the all powerful Mahanta?
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Well, here again these are just more confusing statements and
                > also
                >
                > > > unloving comments by Harold Klemp. Where is HK's loving heart
                > in
                >
                > > > this writing? Answer: It's not there! He demands respect and
                >
                > > > obedience--of course, he says he's used to those who
                > complain, but
                >
                > > > yet if he is, why does he call them "losers?" I wonder why
                > such an
                >
                > > > authority and world spiritual leader LOL like HK can't just
                >
                > find and
                >
                > > > take the higher road!
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Mish
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > --- End forwarded message ---
                >
                > > >
                >
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Etznab, If the Shariyat was made up and/or plagiarized? There is proof that parts of it was plagiarized! There s a LINK on ESA that shows the
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 4, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Etznab,
                  "If" the Shariyat was "made up" and/or
                  "plagiarized?" There is proof that parts
                  of it was plagiarized! There's a LINK on
                  ESA that shows the passages in the Shariyat
                  that came from The Path of the Masters!

                  Really! You don't think that Klemp wants
                  to create anymore Myths than there are now?
                  You've got to be kidding me! What about the
                  crap he's said about Rebazar and the Powers
                  of the Mahanta? How about that "Unknown
                  EK Master" HK has mentioned? Have you read
                  Those Wonderful ECK Masters? Really, are
                  you serious that Klemp wouldn't "knowingly"
                  lie to EKists and/or to the public! I'm amazed
                  that you would make such naive statements
                  about Klemp! You're starting to sound like
                  EK apologist Doug Marman.

                  And yes, the Masters 4 Discourse was the
                  last one written (1995). Also, I'm thinking
                  that Klemp used some of PT's old discourses
                  as well as, materials that were never released
                  to the public to "write" some of these discourses
                  much like he "wrote" the EK Lexicon.

                  Prometheus



                  etznab wrote:
                  If the shariyat was "made up" and / or plagiarized
                  and compiled from other sources. And if this has
                  been discovered to be true.

                  I don't think Harold K. would knowingly try to
                  "make up", plagiarize, or compile more if he
                  felt the materail "had to be" associated with
                  certain "Eck Masters".

                  It could amount to knowingly creating more
                  pseudo info, or myths.

                  I don't think the L.E.M. and Eckankar want
                  to have that reputation nowadays. Not to a
                  very great extent.

                  My hunch is that Harold doesn't want to create
                  any more myths than there already are.

                  Thanks to Paul and others who wrote up the
                  earlier works.

                  Have you noticed there haven't been any new
                  discourses in years?

                  Of course, if the context is clarified as myth, or
                  legend, then that opens up possibilities. All the
                  possibilities available to a science fiction writer,
                  etc.

                  Etznab


                  mish wrote:


                  That's a good one!! But I think Shariyat (book XII, not in print) won't
                  make it to publication until Klemp is off the eck throne. After all
                  these 25 years plus he has seated himself there, he still has not
                  written a Shariyat! At this point, the best bet is he won't! And a good
                  reason why he won't is because he wouldn't know where to begin . . .
                  he hasn't and he can't come up with anything new to write about.
                  Amazing how his lack of talent remains unchallenged by his followers.
                  But I guess many are waiting for change and hopeful the next l.e.m.
                  will be better . . . . hope springs eternal in many chelas' hearts! : )
                • etznab@aol.com
                  O.K., you re right. I should have phrased that post differently. Etznab ... From: prometheus_973 To:
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 5, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    O.K., you're right.

                    I should have phrased that post differently.

                    Etznab


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, Oct 4, 2009 10:27 pm
                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Repost: From Klemp's new
                    book, "Those Wonderful Eck Masters"

                     






                    Hello Etznab,

                    "If" the Shariyat was "made up" and/or

                    "plagiarized?" There is proof that parts

                    of it was plagiarized! There's a LINK on

                    ESA that shows the passages in the Shariyat

                    that came from The Path of the Masters!



                    Really! You don't think that Klemp wants

                    to create anymore Myths than there are now?

                    You've got to be kidding me! What about the

                    crap he's said about Rebazar and the Powers

                    of the Mahanta? How about that "Unknown

                    EK Master" HK has mentioned? Have you read

                    Those Wonderful ECK Masters? Really, are

                    you serious that Klemp wouldn't "knowingly"

                    lie to EKists and/or to the public! I'm amazed

                    that you would make such naive statements

                    about Klemp! You're starting to sound like

                    EK apologist Doug Marman.



                    And yes, the Masters 4 Discourse was the

                    last one written (1995). Also, I'm thinking

                    that Klemp used some of PT's old discourses

                    as well as, materials that were never released

                    to the public to "write" some of these discourses

                    much like he "wrote"=2
                    0the EK Lexicon.



                    Prometheus



                    etznab wrote:

                    If the shariyat was "made up" and / or plagiarized

                    and compiled from other sources. And if this has

                    been discovered to be true.



                    I don't think Harold K. would knowingly try to

                    "make up", plagiarize, or compile more if he

                    felt the materail "had to be" associated with

                    certain "Eck Masters".



                    It could amount to knowingly creating more

                    pseudo info, or myths.



                    I don't think the L.E.M. and Eckankar want

                    to have that reputation nowadays. Not to a

                    very great extent.



                    My hunch is that Harold doesn't want to create

                    any more myths than there already are.



                    Thanks to Paul and others who wrote up the

                    earlier works.



                    Have you noticed there haven't been any new

                    discourses in years?



                    Of course, if the context is clarified as myth, or

                    legend, then that opens up possibilities. All the

                    possibilities available to a science fiction writer,

                    etc.



                    Etznab



                    mish wrote:



                    That's a good one!! But I think Shariyat (book XII, not in print) won't

                    make it to publication until Klemp is off the eck throne. After all

                    these 25 years plus he has seated himself there, he still has not

                    written a Shariyat! At this point, the best bet is he won't! And a good

                    reason why he won't is beca
                    use he wouldn't know where to begin . . .

                    he hasn't and he can't come up with anything new to write about.

                    Amazing how his lack of talent remains unchallenged by his followers.

                    But I guess many are waiting for change and hopeful the next l.e.m.

                    will be better . . . . hope springs eternal in many chelas' hearts! : )
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.