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Re: fast track - more delusion!

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  • Moby
    Let s face it: most women would have to run backwards, backwards at high speed, to get their vibrations in sync with an eck cleric. moby...
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 17, 2009
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      Let's face it: most women would have to run backwards, backwards at high speed, to get their "vibrations" in sync with an eck cleric.

      moby...


      In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Moby and All,
      > Yes, this idea of people coming into
      > contact with ESA's (H.I.s) is seen as
      > a "spiritual" blessing/Fate Karma for
      > the lower initiate where their consciousness/
      > vibrations will be speeded up in order
      > to match, or come into sync with that
      > of the Holier High Initiate via the Mahanta's
      > intervention. To be a H.I. under Klemp
      > is to come under his influence of vanity
      > and delusion. As Above, So Below!
      >
      > Thus, H.I.s play the "as if" game and
      > pretend. In truth they are trapped inside
      > a box of religious dogma that has negative/
      > lower plane requirements for more and more
      > service.
      >
      > And, after all, Klemp has given NO MORE
      > spiritual insights than Twitchell gave 39 years
      > ago! Klemp has simply spun some updated
      > regurgitations of PT's "borrowed" info while
      > making some "outer" changes. This, unfortunately,
      > has distracted the EK H.I. membership from
      > their original goals of when they first joined
      > "the private club" some 30-45 years ago!
      >
      > What ever happened to "Spiritual Liberation
      > AND Self-Mastery in THIS Lifetime?"
      >
      > The above two goals can't ever be achieved
      > when Klemp doesn't hand out enough Higher
      > Initiations! Klemp is selfish, mean spirited,
      > and fearful of being challenged for leadership.
      > Look at what he did to Darwin and Graham!
      > When he smiles he's thinking how he's fooled
      > so many for so long! As initiation rank gets
      > higher I.Q. becomes lower! Closed mindedness
      > has negative results.
      >
      > In truth, after 27 years, there should
      > be at least 3 Twelfth Initiates (named),
      > 18 Ninth Initiates (named), 180 Eighth
      > Initiates, and 1800 Seventh Initiates!
      > Really! Eckists should think about this.
      > Klemp isn't who or what he has claimed
      > to be and hasn't delivered on these two
      > main promises that Eckankar makes to
      > everyone first joining... and that's a fact!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      > whitemoby wrote:
      >
      > I can't recall when the Eck illusion
      > started to crack open for me. But,
      > the following incident, at least,
      > caused the seams to open:
      >
      > A woman, completely new to eckankar,
      > started coming to the local center,
      > hanging around a lot. I won't get into
      > details, but she started dating our top
      > ESA. Wedding bells were ringing.
      >
      > One day, in a satsang or something,
      > an HI stated that this new woman, the
      > ESA-dating woman, was on a spiritual
      > fast track. Now, I am always happy to
      > see two people find love, but I could
      > not understand why it was that she was
      > on a fast track. The HI said she HAD to
      > be on a fast track otherwise she and the
      > ESA would not be together. I thought,
      > well, I could have dated that ESA myself.
      > Would I then be on the Mahanta's
      > thoroughbred list?
      >
      > Man oh man. The chips started to
      > fall for me.
      >
      > I also saw how financially successful
      > people were initiated faster and further.
      >
      > Moby...
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, After looking at my estimates of how many 7ths, 8ths, 9ths, and 12ths that Klemp should have given out, after 27 years, I realize now that my
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 17, 2009
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        Hello All,
        After looking at my estimates of
        how many 7ths, 8ths, 9ths, and
        12ths that Klemp should have given
        out, after 27 years, I realize now
        that my estimated numbers of what
        they should be (worldwide), for the
        7th initiation, is way too low! HK
        hasn't promoted that many to the
        7th initiation!

        There are now probably around 800
        current 7th Initiates, (about 1,000
        7ths were given out by DG and 100
        by PT), however, there should be more
        than four times as many as this by
        now! Of course, attrition has to be
        accounted for due to death or leaving
        the org. and/or failure to maintain
        the "requested" outer membership
        donation fee. Thus, Klemp is to
        blame here (for the low numbers)
        as well!

        All 7th Initiates Should Not have
        to pay, or renew, their outer and
        Inner Initiation via outer membership
        fees! 7ths wanting to leave the
        "Church" should have to resign,
        or be excommunicated! H.I.s Should
        Not be demoted or kicked to the
        curb for Not Paying a Maintenance
        (membership) Fee!

        Eckankar, on it's own, may have
        fulfilled PT's dream of becoming
        a "Worldwide Religion," however,
        PT's dream/scam has become "fulfilled"
        via the Internet (naturally) and despite
        Klemp's negative and inadequate
        leadership!

        Perhaps Klemp, and his manipulation
        of the "EK," or his "ECK Masters," will
        take credit for the "Internet" as well!
        Klemp's delusional version and rewrite
        of history has Fubbi and Rebazar helping
        Columbus to discover the Americas because
        EK Master Fubbi noticed that Europeans
        needed more "protein." Of course Klemp,
        conveniently, omits the search for gold
        and silver or the murder, rape, slavery,
        and disease and all the other exploitations
        that Columbus Rebazar, and Fubbi brought
        to the indigenous people of the New World!

        And, in Truth, Klemp has caused almost
        as many longtime chelas and H.I.'s to leave
        the EK Church (in his 27 years) than those
        joining, and staying, for three years.

        Prometheus


        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Moby and All,
        Yes, this idea of people coming into
        contact with ESA's (H.I.s) is seen as
        a "spiritual" blessing/Fate Karma for
        the lower initiate where their consciousness/
        vibrations will be speeded up in order
        to match, or come into sync with that
        of the Holier High Initiate via the Mahanta's
        intervention. To be a H.I. under Klemp
        is to come under his influence of vanity
        and delusion. As Above, So Below!

        Thus, H.I.s play the "as if" game and
        pretend. In truth they are trapped inside
        a box of religious dogma that has negative/
        lower plane requirements for more and more
        service.

        And, after all, Klemp has given NO MORE
        spiritual insights than Twitchell gave 39 years
        ago! Klemp has simply spun some updated
        regurgitations of PT's "borrowed" info while
        making some "outer" changes. This, unfortunately,
        has distracted the EK H.I. membership from
        their original goals of when they first joined
        "the private club" some 30-45 years ago!

        What ever happened to "Spiritual Liberation
        AND Self-Mastery in THIS Lifetime?"

        The above two goals can't ever be achieved
        when Klemp doesn't hand out enough Higher
        Initiations! Klemp is selfish, mean spirited,
        and fearful of being challenged for leadership.
        Look at what he did to Darwin and Graham!
        When he smiles he's thinking how he's fooled
        so many for so long! As initiation rank gets
        higher I.Q. becomes lower! Closed mindedness
        has negative results.

        In truth, after 27 years, there should
        be at least 3 Twelfth Initiates (named),
        18 Ninth Initiates (named), 180 Eighth
        Initiates, and 1800 Seventh Initiates!
        Really! Eckists should think about this.
        Klemp isn't who or what he has claimed
        to be and hasn't delivered on these two
        main promises that Eckankar makes to
        everyone first joining... and that's a fact!

        Prometheus



        whitemoby wrote:

        I can't recall when the Eck illusion
        started to crack open for me. But,
        the following incident, at least,
        caused the seams to open:

        A woman, completely new to eckankar,
        started coming to the local center,
        hanging around a lot. I won't get into
        details, but she started dating our top
        ESA. Wedding bells were ringing.

        One day, in a satsang or something,
        an HI stated that this new woman, the
        ESA-dating woman, was on a spiritual
        fast track. Now, I am always happy to
        see two people find love, but I could
        not understand why it was that she was
        on a fast track. The HI said she HAD to
        be on a fast track otherwise she and the
        ESA would not be together. I thought,
        well, I could have dated that ESA myself.
        Would I then be on the Mahanta's
        thoroughbred list?

        Man oh man. The chips started to
        fall for me.

        I also saw how financially successful
        people were initiated faster and further.

        Moby...
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Moby, Yes, Klemp has been promoting the fast track, and the spiritual track for some time now. It s mostly a seminar workshop thing. However, EK
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 23, 2009
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          Hello Moby,
          Yes, Klemp has been promoting the
          "fast" track, and the "spiritual" track
          for some time now. It's mostly a seminar
          "workshop" thing.

          However, EK women tend to do the
          "heavy lifting" in Eckankar. They are
          pacified with titles and contradictions
          and are given a lot of "busy work" to
          distract them from thinking too much
          and asking questions. Silence and Surrender
          tend to keep them in their "place" even
          though when becoming H.I.s they are
          called "BROTHERS of the Leaf" - PT's
          (and HK's) play on words!

          The definition for the "Vairagi Adepts"
          (pg. 222, EK Lexicon) states that this
          is an "esoteric group" of 'JUST MEN.'
          However, PT created one female EK
          Master "Kata Daki" (K.D.) in memory
          of his sister (Kay-Dee), and to appease
          the female H.I.s doing most of the work,
          as well as, to Gail.

          Then again, women can't become a
          12th LEM (let alone the Mahanta) while
          living in a physical body due to their
          "Negative" (atom) vibrations! Did the
          imaginary "Kata Daki" get her 12th on
          the outer or inner? It must have been
          the "Inner" since the world's vibratory
          rate (consciousness) was much more
          coarse way back then and women were
          even more "negative," or were they?

          Why is there only ONE Female EK Master
          that was "made" 1,000, or more, years
          ago? HK states that "her true age is beyond
          belief." It would make more sense if Kata
          Daki was made a member of the Vairagi
          Order 100 years ago when her "Negative"
          female vibrations were more harmonious
          with the expanding world consciousness!

          BTW- Apparently Kata Daki still maintains
          a physical body like Rubber Tires (Rebazar
          Tarzs)!

          Eureka! A new perspective and a new
          ekplanation. In playing devil's advocate,
          for Klemp, I've come up with another
          probability (excuse) for HK to use in
          regard to the Kata Daki phenomena (lie).

          IF Kata Daki lived during the Golden
          Age, or even the Silver Age, the feminine
          "negative" atom principle would, thus,
          have had much less effect and less
          influence.

          Or, there could have been more contrast
          between the two poles since the "positive"
          influence would have been stronger and
          greater, thus, the neg. atom feminine principle
          would have to of been weaker than it is
          today.

          However, as the world came closer to the
          coarser vibrations of the more Negative
          Kali Yuga this would explain why there
          weren't and can't be anymore female EK
          Masters since this Eckankar religious dogma
          of the negative feminine principle would
          become stronger!

          This is really bad news for Joan! It proves
          that if Harry makes his 9th initiate wife, Joan,
          a 12th Initiate and EK Master this October
          (or any female anytime) that this would be
          in direct conflict with Eckankar dogma!

          Of course, two negatives make a positive!
          Thus, the negativity of the Kali Yuga and
          the feminine negative atom principle could
          make this a better time for a female LEM!
          Maybe this factor/effect is what actually
          caused Harry's EMR health problems, but
          he's too much of a male chauvinist to let
          go of the ROD! This attachment to power
          could be seen as proof that Klemp is a
          "past" Master... like Darwin.

          BTW- While looking at Klemp's 1998
          EK Lexicon I saw some definitions that
          caught my attention.

          "Path of the Trinity. Three questions to
          ask oneself when in doubt about an action:
          Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it kind?"

          It's funny that Klemp uses Buddha's words
          just as Twitchell did and doesn't give credit
          to the original source. It's probably because
          HK didn't realize Paul stole this quote from
          Buddha! LOL! Where's the LEM's outer
          awareness, or the Mahanta's "Inner Awareness?"



          "prophecy. The art of foreseeing events
          before they happen; prophecy and deja
          vu (for seeing what has already happened)
          are the modus operandi of the ECK-Vidya,
          the ancient science of prophecy used by
          the Adepts of Eckankar."

          I will have to give Klemp credit for his
          M.O. of using "deja vu" (20/20 hind-sight)
          and his delusional and distorted imagination
          and misuse of truth for a self-promoting
          rewrite of history!



          Here's an EK Lexicon definition that follows
          the pure positive MALE (father) principle:

          "principle of HU. The original word current,
          HU, is the FATHER of all motions, forces,
          lights, sounds, and elements that subsequently
          came into existence."

          Notice that Klemp uses the past tense of
          "CAME into existence." Thus, HU was the
          "original word current," but is It's use relevant
          for current times? And, since this is part
          of the pure positive male principle, of the
          "Father," should those ECKists with the
          negative atom mother/female principle
          be using/chanting this original HU word?

          Doesn't/couldn't this create a conflict
          between the positive and negative that
          would have worldwide karmic repercussions!
          Should a mass of people (male and female
          pos. & neg. atoms with various levels of
          consciousness (initiation levels) be chanting
          the "original word current" of the "Father"
          the "HU" at the EK Worldwide Seminar Sunday
          Morning HU Chant? Should these Eckists
          and non-Eckists be using (playing with)
          this "charged word?" Has Klemp gone too
          far and has been too reckless?

          Klemp has a lot to answer for, however,
          the Teflon LEM/Mahanta always sidesteps
          the real issues. HK either simplifies these
          to an Astral feel good level, or he omits
          details and a broader perspective. Thus,
          he always leaves them hungry... for real
          spiritual food! Therefore, Eckists end up
          rationalizing, second guessing, and feeding
          themselves with imaginary explanations
          after reading his stories or hearing him
          speak.

          Many Eckists conclude that the testimonies/
          stories of the imagined happenings of other
          Chelas with EK Masters are real. This is the
          "as if" proof that gives them their belief that
          their religion is not only true but is the best,
          most advanced, fastest, the only, and most
          direct "path" to God. Strange, that these same
          Eckists haven't experienced the "deja vu"of
          those same testimonies and promises before!

          Prometheus


          Moby wrote:

          Let's face it: most women would have
          to run backwards, backwards at high
          speed, to get their "vibrations" in sync
          with an eck cleric.

          moby...


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Moby and All,
          > Yes, this idea of people coming into
          > contact with ESA's (H.I.s) is seen as
          > a "spiritual" blessing/Fate Karma for
          > the lower initiate where their consciousness/
          > vibrations will be speeded up in order
          > to match, or come into sync with that
          > of the Holier High Initiate via the Mahanta's
          > intervention. To be a H.I. under Klemp
          > is to come under his influence of vanity
          > and delusion. As Above, So Below!
          >
          > Thus, H.I.s play the "as if" game and
          > pretend. In truth they are trapped inside
          > a box of religious dogma that has negative/
          > lower plane requirements for more and more
          > service.
          >
          > And, after all, Klemp has given NO MORE
          > spiritual insights than Twitchell gave 39 years
          > ago! Klemp has simply spun some updated
          > regurgitations of PT's "borrowed" info while
          > making some "outer" changes. This, unfortunately,
          > has distracted the EK H.I. membership from
          > their original goals of when they first joined
          > "the private club" some 30-45 years ago!
          >
          > What ever happened to "Spiritual Liberation
          > AND Self-Mastery in THIS Lifetime?"
          >
          > The above two goals can't ever be achieved
          > when Klemp doesn't hand out enough Higher
          > Initiations! Klemp is selfish, mean spirited,
          > and fearful of being challenged for leadership.
          > Look at what he did to Darwin and Graham!
          > When he smiles he's thinking how he's fooled
          > so many for so long! As initiation rank gets
          > higher I.Q. becomes lower! Closed mindedness
          > has negative results.
          >
          > In truth, after 27 years, there should
          > be at least 3 Twelfth Initiates (named),
          > 18 Ninth Initiates (named), 180 Eighth
          > Initiates, and 1800 Seventh Initiates!
          > Really! Eckists should think about this.
          > Klemp isn't who or what he has claimed
          > to be and hasn't delivered on these two
          > main promises that Eckankar makes to
          > everyone first joining... and that's a fact!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          > whitemoby wrote:
          >
          > I can't recall when the Eck illusion
          > started to crack open for me. But,
          > the following incident, at least,
          > caused the seams to open:
          >
          > A woman, completely new to eckankar,
          > started coming to the local center,
          > hanging around a lot. I won't get into
          > details, but she started dating our top
          > ESA. Wedding bells were ringing.
          >
          > One day, in a satsang or something,
          > an HI stated that this new woman, the
          > ESA-dating woman, was on a spiritual
          > fast track. Now, I am always happy to
          > see two people find love, but I could
          > not understand why it was that she was
          > on a fast track. The HI said she HAD to
          > be on a fast track otherwise she and the
          > ESA would not be together. I thought,
          > well, I could have dated that ESA myself.
          > Would I then be on the Mahanta's
          > thoroughbred list?
          >
          > Man oh man. The chips started to
          > fall for me.
          >
          > I also saw how financially successful
          > people were initiated faster and further.
          >
          > Moby...
        • Moby
          Interesting post, prometheus, as always. Do you know what I think of when I think of Paul Twitchell and women? In one of his books he said that women did not
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 23, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Interesting post, prometheus, as always. Do you know what I think of when I think of Paul Twitchell and women? In one of his books he said that women did not have their own spiritual batteries. I can't recall the exact quote, but I will never for get it.

            Man oh man. My batteries may only be AAA, but trust me, I've got em.

            Moby...



            In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Moby,
            > Yes, Klemp has been promoting the
            > "fast" track, and the "spiritual" track
            > for some time now. It's mostly a seminar
            > "workshop" thing.
            >
            > However, EK women tend to do the
            > "heavy lifting" in Eckankar. They are
            > pacified with titles and contradictions
            > and are given a lot of "busy work" to
            > distract them from thinking too much
            > and asking questions. Silence and Surrender
            > tend to keep them in their "place" even
            > though when becoming H.I.s they are
            > called "BROTHERS of the Leaf" - PT's
            > (and HK's) play on words!
            >
            > The definition for the "Vairagi Adepts"
            > (pg. 222, EK Lexicon) states that this
            > is an "esoteric group" of 'JUST MEN.'
            > However, PT created one female EK
            > Master "Kata Daki" (K.D.) in memory
            > of his sister (Kay-Dee), and to appease
            > the female H.I.s doing most of the work,
            > as well as, to Gail.
            >
            > Then again, women can't become a
            > 12th LEM (let alone the Mahanta) while
            > living in a physical body due to their
            > "Negative" (atom) vibrations! Did the
            > imaginary "Kata Daki" get her 12th on
            > the outer or inner? It must have been
            > the "Inner" since the world's vibratory
            > rate (consciousness) was much more
            > coarse way back then and women were
            > even more "negative," or were they?
            >
            > Why is there only ONE Female EK Master
            > that was "made" 1,000, or more, years
            > ago? HK states that "her true age is beyond
            > belief." It would make more sense if Kata
            > Daki was made a member of the Vairagi
            > Order 100 years ago when her "Negative"
            > female vibrations were more harmonious
            > with the expanding world consciousness!
            >
            > BTW- Apparently Kata Daki still maintains
            > a physical body like Rubber Tires (Rebazar
            > Tarzs)!
            >
            > Eureka! A new perspective and a new
            > ekplanation. In playing devil's advocate,
            > for Klemp, I've come up with another
            > probability (excuse) for HK to use in
            > regard to the Kata Daki phenomena (lie).
            >
            > IF Kata Daki lived during the Golden
            > Age, or even the Silver Age, the feminine
            > "negative" atom principle would, thus,
            > have had much less effect and less
            > influence.
            >
            > Or, there could have been more contrast
            > between the two poles since the "positive"
            > influence would have been stronger and
            > greater, thus, the neg. atom feminine principle
            > would have to of been weaker than it is
            > today.
            >
            > However, as the world came closer to the
            > coarser vibrations of the more Negative
            > Kali Yuga this would explain why there
            > weren't and can't be anymore female EK
            > Masters since this Eckankar religious dogma
            > of the negative feminine principle would
            > become stronger!
            >
            > This is really bad news for Joan! It proves
            > that if Harry makes his 9th initiate wife, Joan,
            > a 12th Initiate and EK Master this October
            > (or any female anytime) that this would be
            > in direct conflict with Eckankar dogma!
            >
            > Of course, two negatives make a positive!
            > Thus, the negativity of the Kali Yuga and
            > the feminine negative atom principle could
            > make this a better time for a female LEM!
            > Maybe this factor/effect is what actually
            > caused Harry's EMR health problems, but
            > he's too much of a male chauvinist to let
            > go of the ROD! This attachment to power
            > could be seen as proof that Klemp is a
            > "past" Master... like Darwin.
            >
            > BTW- While looking at Klemp's 1998
            > EK Lexicon I saw some definitions that
            > caught my attention.
            >
            > "Path of the Trinity. Three questions to
            > ask oneself when in doubt about an action:
            > Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it kind?"
            >
            > It's funny that Klemp uses Buddha's words
            > just as Twitchell did and doesn't give credit
            > to the original source. It's probably because
            > HK didn't realize Paul stole this quote from
            > Buddha! LOL! Where's the LEM's outer
            > awareness, or the Mahanta's "Inner Awareness?"
            >
            >
            >
            > "prophecy. The art of foreseeing events
            > before they happen; prophecy and deja
            > vu (for seeing what has already happened)
            > are the modus operandi of the ECK-Vidya,
            > the ancient science of prophecy used by
            > the Adepts of Eckankar."
            >
            > I will have to give Klemp credit for his
            > M.O. of using "deja vu" (20/20 hind-sight)
            > and his delusional and distorted imagination
            > and misuse of truth for a self-promoting
            > rewrite of history!
            >
            >
            >
            > Here's an EK Lexicon definition that follows
            > the pure positive MALE (father) principle:
            >
            > "principle of HU. The original word current,
            > HU, is the FATHER of all motions, forces,
            > lights, sounds, and elements that subsequently
            > came into existence."
            >
            > Notice that Klemp uses the past tense of
            > "CAME into existence." Thus, HU was the
            > "original word current," but is It's use relevant
            > for current times? And, since this is part
            > of the pure positive male principle, of the
            > "Father," should those ECKists with the
            > negative atom mother/female principle
            > be using/chanting this original HU word?
            >
            > Doesn't/couldn't this create a conflict
            > between the positive and negative that
            > would have worldwide karmic repercussions!
            > Should a mass of people (male and female
            > pos. & neg. atoms with various levels of
            > consciousness (initiation levels) be chanting
            > the "original word current" of the "Father"
            > the "HU" at the EK Worldwide Seminar Sunday
            > Morning HU Chant? Should these Eckists
            > and non-Eckists be using (playing with)
            > this "charged word?" Has Klemp gone too
            > far and has been too reckless?
            >
            > Klemp has a lot to answer for, however,
            > the Teflon LEM/Mahanta always sidesteps
            > the real issues. HK either simplifies these
            > to an Astral feel good level, or he omits
            > details and a broader perspective. Thus,
            > he always leaves them hungry... for real
            > spiritual food! Therefore, Eckists end up
            > rationalizing, second guessing, and feeding
            > themselves with imaginary explanations
            > after reading his stories or hearing him
            > speak.
            >
            > Many Eckists conclude that the testimonies/
            > stories of the imagined happenings of other
            > Chelas with EK Masters are real. This is the
            > "as if" proof that gives them their belief that
            > their religion is not only true but is the best,
            > most advanced, fastest, the only, and most
            > direct "path" to God. Strange, that these same
            > Eckists haven't experienced the "deja vu"of
            > those same testimonies and promises before!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > Moby wrote:
            >
            > Let's face it: most women would have
            > to run backwards, backwards at high
            > speed, to get their "vibrations" in sync
            > with an eck cleric.
            >
            > moby...
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Moby and All,
            > > Yes, this idea of people coming into
            > > contact with ESA's (H.I.s) is seen as
            > > a "spiritual" blessing/Fate Karma for
            > > the lower initiate where their consciousness/
            > > vibrations will be speeded up in order
            > > to match, or come into sync with that
            > > of the Holier High Initiate via the Mahanta's
            > > intervention. To be a H.I. under Klemp
            > > is to come under his influence of vanity
            > > and delusion. As Above, So Below!
            > >
            > > Thus, H.I.s play the "as if" game and
            > > pretend. In truth they are trapped inside
            > > a box of religious dogma that has negative/
            > > lower plane requirements for more and more
            > > service.
            > >
            > > And, after all, Klemp has given NO MORE
            > > spiritual insights than Twitchell gave 39 years
            > > ago! Klemp has simply spun some updated
            > > regurgitations of PT's "borrowed" info while
            > > making some "outer" changes. This, unfortunately,
            > > has distracted the EK H.I. membership from
            > > their original goals of when they first joined
            > > "the private club" some 30-45 years ago!
            > >
            > > What ever happened to "Spiritual Liberation
            > > AND Self-Mastery in THIS Lifetime?"
            > >
            > > The above two goals can't ever be achieved
            > > when Klemp doesn't hand out enough Higher
            > > Initiations! Klemp is selfish, mean spirited,
            > > and fearful of being challenged for leadership.
            > > Look at what he did to Darwin and Graham!
            > > When he smiles he's thinking how he's fooled
            > > so many for so long! As initiation rank gets
            > > higher I.Q. becomes lower! Closed mindedness
            > > has negative results.
            > >
            > > In truth, after 27 years, there should
            > > be at least 3 Twelfth Initiates (named),
            > > 18 Ninth Initiates (named), 180 Eighth
            > > Initiates, and 1800 Seventh Initiates!
            > > Really! Eckists should think about this.
            > > Klemp isn't who or what he has claimed
            > > to be and hasn't delivered on these two
            > > main promises that Eckankar makes to
            > > everyone first joining... and that's a fact!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > whitemoby wrote:
            > >
            > > I can't recall when the Eck illusion
            > > started to crack open for me. But,
            > > the following incident, at least,
            > > caused the seams to open:
            > >
            > > A woman, completely new to eckankar,
            > > started coming to the local center,
            > > hanging around a lot. I won't get into
            > > details, but she started dating our top
            > > ESA. Wedding bells were ringing.
            > >
            > > One day, in a satsang or something,
            > > an HI stated that this new woman, the
            > > ESA-dating woman, was on a spiritual
            > > fast track. Now, I am always happy to
            > > see two people find love, but I could
            > > not understand why it was that she was
            > > on a fast track. The HI said she HAD to
            > > be on a fast track otherwise she and the
            > > ESA would not be together. I thought,
            > > well, I could have dated that ESA myself.
            > > Would I then be on the Mahanta's
            > > thoroughbred list?
            > >
            > > Man oh man. The chips started to
            > > fall for me.
            > >
            > > I also saw how financially successful
            > > people were initiated faster and further.
            > >
            > > Moby...
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Moby and All, So true! Yes, Paul did use the battery analogy of pos. and neg. poles. There s always another excuse to place men above women. In EK,
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 24, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Moby and All,
              So true! Yes, Paul did use the "battery"
              analogy of pos. and neg. poles. There's
              always another excuse to place men
              above women. In EK, SOUL should
              equal SOUL (on ALL Planes), but it
              doesn't work that way! There's always
              another Catch-22 that these 'Just Men'
              (PT and HK) use to manipulate the neg.
              wo-men/fe-males/hu-mans. And,
              isn't it strange that the "negative" gender
              seems to Know and Experience more
              about LOVE than their warring/violent/
              angry/lustful/greedy/power hungry
              "positive" atom counterparts!

              I do, however, think that Klemp will try
              to pacify the female ECKists (8ths & RESAs
              too) by giving his wife, Joan, a 12th Initiation,
              thus, making her an EK Master. His excuse
              could be that Joan was placed on the
              "fast track" by sharing space and intimacy
              with the LEM/Mahanta. Thus, her vibrations
              are being more balanced out and coming
              into closer sync with his... least she gets
              "burned." Still, it seems strange that there
              would be such a gap between a Modern Day
              FEMALE EK Master and the ONLY other one,
              Kata Daki, of 1,000 or more years ago!

              BTW- If Klemp was as "high" in consciousness
              as Rebazar why is HK aging while R.T.
              hasn't aged AT ALL in over 500 years!
              EKists should be looking to and following
              the ageless Rebazar instead of the sickly
              Harry! Also, I'll bet Reb doesn't charge a
              Membership Fee for Initiation Maintenance!
              I never heard Paul say that he had to pay
              Rebazar an Annual Membership Donation
              or risk losing his initiations!

              ******
              Here's a quote from a June, 1971
              interview In "Difficulties Of Becoming
              The Living ECK Master" with Twitchell
              (pgs. 24-25).

              This was after PT had found out about
              Gail and Darwin's affair. [My Caps Added]

              "It is My Opinion that pets are good
              for children, especially in their earlier
              years when They Need Something to
              Love Them and Give Them Complete
              Devotion AND this is True with Some
              Adults. They Need a dog around them
              because They Need That Admiration
              and the Fullness of Love that They Don't
              and Cannot Get from an Inner Exchange
              with People, ESPECIALLY A MATE,
              because a Love With Mates Will NEVER
              Remain On This Sort Of A Level."

              Prometheus


              Moby wrote:

              Interesting post, prometheus, as always.
              Do you know what I think of when I think
              of Paul Twitchell and women? In one of
              his books he said that women did not
              have their own spiritual batteries.
              I can't recall the exact quote, but I
              will never for get it.

              Man oh man. My batteries may only
              be AAA, but trust me, I've got em.

              Moby...




              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Moby,
              > Yes, Klemp has been promoting the
              > "fast" track, and the "spiritual" track
              > for some time now. It's mostly a seminar
              > "workshop" thing.
              >
              > However, EK women tend to do the
              > "heavy lifting" in Eckankar. They are
              > pacified with titles and contradictions
              > and are given a lot of "busy work" to
              > distract them from thinking too much
              > and asking questions. Silence and Surrender
              > tend to keep them in their "place" even
              > though when becoming H.I.s they are
              > called "BROTHERS of the Leaf" - PT's
              > (and HK's) play on words!
              >
              > The definition for the "Vairagi Adepts"
              > (pg. 222, EK Lexicon) states that this
              > is an "esoteric group" of 'JUST MEN.'
              > However, PT created one female EK
              > Master "Kata Daki" (K.D.) in memory
              > of his sister (Kay-Dee), and to appease
              > the female H.I.s doing most of the work,
              > as well as, to Gail.
              >
              > Then again, women can't become a
              > 12th LEM (let alone the Mahanta) while
              > living in a physical body due to their
              > "Negative" (atom) vibrations! Did the
              > imaginary "Kata Daki" get her 12th on
              > the outer or inner? It must have been
              > the "Inner" since the world's vibratory
              > rate (consciousness) was much more
              > coarse way back then and women were
              > even more "negative," or were they?
              >
              > Why is there only ONE Female EK Master
              > that was "made" 1,000, or more, years
              > ago? HK states that "her true age is beyond
              > belief." It would make more sense if Kata
              > Daki was made a member of the Vairagi
              > Order 100 years ago when her "Negative"
              > female vibrations were more harmonious
              > with the expanding world consciousness!
              >
              > BTW- Apparently Kata Daki still maintains
              > a physical body like Rubber Tires (Rebazar
              > Tarzs)!
              >
              > Eureka! A new perspective and a new
              > ekplanation. In playing devil's advocate,
              > for Klemp, I've come up with another
              > probability (excuse) for HK to use in
              > regard to the Kata Daki phenomena (lie).
              >
              > IF Kata Daki lived during the Golden
              > Age, or even the Silver Age, the feminine
              > "negative" atom principle would, thus,
              > have had much less effect and less
              > influence.
              >
              > Or, there could have been more contrast
              > between the two poles since the "positive"
              > influence would have been stronger and
              > greater, thus, the neg. atom feminine principle
              > would have to of been weaker than it is
              > today.
              >
              > However, as the world came closer to the
              > coarser vibrations of the more Negative
              > Kali Yuga this would explain why there
              > weren't and can't be anymore female EK
              > Masters since this Eckankar religious dogma
              > of the negative feminine principle would
              > become stronger!
              >
              > This is really bad news for Joan! It proves
              > that if Harry makes his 9th initiate wife, Joan,
              > a 12th Initiate and EK Master this October
              > (or any female anytime) that this would be
              > in direct conflict with Eckankar dogma!
              >
              > Of course, two negatives make a positive!
              > Thus, the negativity of the Kali Yuga and
              > the feminine negative atom principle could
              > make this a better time for a female LEM!
              > Maybe this factor/effect is what actually
              > caused Harry's EMR health problems, but
              > he's too much of a male chauvinist to let
              > go of the ROD! This attachment to power
              > could be seen as proof that Klemp is a
              > "past" Master... like Darwin.
              >
              > BTW- While looking at Klemp's 1998
              > EK Lexicon I saw some definitions that
              > caught my attention.
              >
              > "Path of the Trinity. Three questions to
              > ask oneself when in doubt about an action:
              > Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it kind?"
              >
              > It's funny that Klemp uses Buddha's words
              > just as Twitchell did and doesn't give credit
              > to the original source. It's probably because
              > HK didn't realize Paul stole this quote from
              > Buddha! LOL! Where's the LEM's outer
              > awareness, or the Mahanta's "Inner Awareness?"
              >
              >
              >
              > "prophecy. The art of foreseeing events
              > before they happen; prophecy and deja
              > vu (for seeing what has already happened)
              > are the modus operandi of the ECK-Vidya,
              > the ancient science of prophecy used by
              > the Adepts of Eckankar."
              >
              > I will have to give Klemp credit for his
              > M.O. of using "deja vu" (20/20 hind-sight)
              > and his delusional and distorted imagination
              > and misuse of truth for a self-promoting
              > rewrite of history!
              >
              >
              >
              > Here's an EK Lexicon definition that follows
              > the pure positive MALE (father) principle:
              >
              > "principle of HU. The original word current,
              > HU, is the FATHER of all motions, forces,
              > lights, sounds, and elements that subsequently
              > came into existence."
              >
              > Notice that Klemp uses the past tense of
              > "CAME into existence." Thus, HU was the
              > "original word current," but is It's use relevant
              > for current times? And, since this is part
              > of the pure positive male principle, of the
              > "Father," should those ECKists with the
              > negative atom mother/female principle
              > be using/chanting this original HU word?
              >
              > Doesn't/couldn't this create a conflict
              > between the positive and negative that
              > would have worldwide karmic repercussions!
              > Should a mass of people (male and female
              > pos. & neg. atoms with various levels of
              > consciousness (initiation levels) be chanting
              > the "original word current" of the "Father"
              > the "HU" at the EK Worldwide Seminar Sunday
              > Morning HU Chant? Should these Eckists
              > and non-Eckists be using (playing with)
              > this "charged word?" Has Klemp gone too
              > far and has been too reckless?
              >
              > Klemp has a lot to answer for, however,
              > the Teflon LEM/Mahanta always sidesteps
              > the real issues. HK either simplifies these
              > to an Astral feel good level, or he omits
              > details and a broader perspective. Thus,
              > he always leaves them hungry... for real
              > spiritual food! Therefore, Eckists end up
              > rationalizing, second guessing, and feeding
              > themselves with imaginary explanations
              > after reading his stories or hearing him
              > speak.
              >
              > Many Eckists conclude that the testimonies/
              > stories of the imagined happenings of other
              > Chelas with EK Masters are real. This is the
              > "as if" proof that gives them their belief that
              > their religion is not only true but is the best,
              > most advanced, fastest, the only, and most
              > direct "path" to God. Strange, that these same
              > Eckists haven't experienced the "deja vu"of
              > those same testimonies and promises before!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > Moby wrote:
              >
              > Let's face it: most women would have
              > to run backwards, backwards at high
              > speed, to get their "vibrations" in sync
              > with an eck cleric.
              >
              > moby...
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Moby and All,
              > > Yes, this idea of people coming into
              > > contact with ESA's (H.I.s) is seen as
              > > a "spiritual" blessing/Fate Karma for
              > > the lower initiate where their consciousness/
              > > vibrations will be speeded up in order
              > > to match, or come into sync with that
              > > of the Holier High Initiate via the Mahanta's
              > > intervention. To be a H.I. under Klemp
              > > is to come under his influence of vanity
              > > and delusion. As Above, So Below!
              > >
              > > Thus, H.I.s play the "as if" game and
              > > pretend. In truth they are trapped inside
              > > a box of religious dogma that has negative/
              > > lower plane requirements for more and more
              > > service.
              > >
              > > And, after all, Klemp has given NO MORE
              > > spiritual insights than Twitchell gave 39 years
              > > ago! Klemp has simply spun some updated
              > > regurgitations of PT's "borrowed" info while
              > > making some "outer" changes. This, unfortunately,
              > > has distracted the EK H.I. membership from
              > > their original goals of when they first joined
              > > "the private club" some 30-45 years ago!
              > >
              > > What ever happened to "Spiritual Liberation
              > > AND Self-Mastery in THIS Lifetime?"
              > >
              > > The above two goals can't ever be achieved
              > > when Klemp doesn't hand out enough Higher
              > > Initiations! Klemp is selfish, mean spirited,
              > > and fearful of being challenged for leadership.
              > > Look at what he did to Darwin and Graham!
              > > When he smiles he's thinking how he's fooled
              > > so many for so long! As initiation rank gets
              > > higher I.Q. becomes lower! Closed mindedness
              > > has negative results.
              > >
              > > In truth, after 27 years, there should
              > > be at least 3 Twelfth Initiates (named),
              > > 18 Ninth Initiates (named), 180 Eighth
              > > Initiates, and 1800 Seventh Initiates!
              > > Really! Eckists should think about this.
              > > Klemp isn't who or what he has claimed
              > > to be and hasn't delivered on these two
              > > main promises that Eckankar makes to
              > > everyone first joining... and that's a fact!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > whitemoby wrote:
              > >
              > > I can't recall when the Eck illusion
              > > started to crack open for me. But,
              > > the following incident, at least,
              > > caused the seams to open:
              > >
              > > A woman, completely new to eckankar,
              > > started coming to the local center,
              > > hanging around a lot. I won't get into
              > > details, but she started dating our top
              > > ESA. Wedding bells were ringing.
              > >
              > > One day, in a satsang or something,
              > > an HI stated that this new woman, the
              > > ESA-dating woman, was on a spiritual
              > > fast track. Now, I am always happy to
              > > see two people find love, but I could
              > > not understand why it was that she was
              > > on a fast track. The HI said she HAD to
              > > be on a fast track otherwise she and the
              > > ESA would not be together. I thought,
              > > well, I could have dated that ESA myself.
              > > Would I then be on the Mahanta's
              > > thoroughbred list?
              > >
              > > Man oh man. The chips started to
              > > fall for me.
              > >
              > > I also saw how financially successful
              > > people were initiated faster and further.
              > >
              > > Moby...
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