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Re: The EK Initiation Quagmire - More Service Required For Higher H.I.s

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  • whitemoby22
    Hey Prometheus and all; I had to take a couple days to digest this post. I cannot believe that HIs have to pay for thier own updated training? OMG. That is
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 14, 2009
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      Hey Prometheus and all; I had to take a couple days to digest this post. I cannot believe that HIs have to pay for thier own updated training? OMG. That is tantamount to buying a higher initiation. And it is true what you say about each eck community being different. I used to travel a great deal, and knew 3 eck communites, in 3 separate cities, quite well. And yes, they each had their own distinct flavor. Very distinct.

      Your comment about fatalism caught my eye. I have always believed that any teaching which is sant mat related, could easily become fatalistic in the psyche of the individual. And Eckankar is most certainly sant mat derivative.

      moby...





      >
      > Hello Moby and All,
      > Yes, every Eckist pretty much knows,
      > or tries to find out, the initiation circle
      > (level/number) of each Eckist they come
      > in contact with.
      >
      > There used to be Circles of Initiation
      > Workshops at major EK Seminars (mid
      > 1980's) and these "Circles" Workshops
      > were, also, encouraged for the RESAs
      > to promote for Local EK Satsang (Chela)
      > Events. Every level/circle of initiate had
      > their own workshop to attend and I.D.s
      > were checked at the door of each workshop.
      >
      > Now, Klemp has creatively "changed"
      > his direction.
      >
      > The following is from the 09/2009
      > The H.I. Letter (pg. 3)--
      >
      > "Worldwide Wind of Creativity
      >
      > In tune with the upcoming spiritual
      > year, A Year of Creativity, you will find
      > a fresh, new program awaiting High
      > Initiates at the 2009 ECK Worldwide
      > Seminar:
      >
      > * an H.I. meeting Saturday morning
      > that has a new look and heightened
      > spiritual focus;
      >
      > * a special workshop for H.I.'s, offered
      > both Friday and Saturday, centered on
      > Sri Harold's HOLY FIRE of ECK Books--
      > especially the latest volume, The Holy
      > Fire of ECK, Book 3--with ample time
      > to share insights with fellow Brothers
      > of the Leaf.
      >
      > [Klemp gets to sell more-of-the-same
      > (book 3) and makes 50% royalties from
      > his books while he lets H.I.s "share"
      > more-of-the-same as well!]
      >
      > * updated trainings--offered Only at
      > Worldwide Seminars--for ECK Clerics,
      > Initiators, and ESAs.
      >
      > [This helps to increase the seminar
      > numbers ($$$) with the financial
      > burden placed mostly upon the H.I.s
      > who want that training in order to
      > qualify for that next initiation. 5ths
      > have to become "Clerics" to become
      > eligible to become "Initiators," and 6ths,
      > in order to become "ESAs" in order
      > to become eligible for the 7th! Some
      > 6ths (who are ESAs) get their 7ths by
      > becoming RESAs since RESAs have to
      > be at least a 7th.]
      >
      > With these new areas of emphasis, the
      > H.I. GET-TOGETHER, SEVENTH Initiates
      > Meeting, and EIGHTH Initiate Meeting
      > are being Retired.
      >
      > [All H.I.s now have to rub shoulders
      > and share EK speak with lower initiates
      > as a means of SERVICE. Will HK and JK
      > be rubbing shoulders and "connecting,"
      > too, for the sake of SERVICE to "fellow
      > Attendees," or is this just more lip SERVICE
      > and DO AS I SAY AND NOT AS I DO for
      > the Klemps? ]
      >
      > These changes will offer you New
      > Spiritual Vistas and Opportunities
      > to Connect with Fellow Attendees
      > [1th-8th Circle Initiates] and Grow
      > through SERVICE at the Seminar and
      > as Leaders in our Creative and Vibrant
      > ECK spiritual community." [END (my
      > brackets and caps)]
      >
      >
      >
      > Anyway, Moby, I'll see if I can answer
      > your questions below--
      >
      > whitemoby wrote:
      >
      > I enjoyed this post, prometheus.
      > To my mind, "initiations" are one
      > of the keys to understanding the
      > eck mentality. I personally believe
      > that klemp requires the last stage
      > in the 9th initiation to be OUTER
      > because this gives the corp more
      > control. This gives the corp absolute
      > control over the very few who will
      > get beyond the 9th.
      >
      > I know, and saw for myself, that
      > eck initiation levels WERE NOT
      > kept hidden in eck communities.
      > Believe me, everybody knew everybody's
      > number, and each person was treated/
      > respect accordingly. Oh yes, low level
      > initiates were treated kindly, but it
      > was a condescending kindness. Like,
      > I'm so far above you - ain't I swell
      > to be talking to you at all?
      >
      > Higher Initiates are held in regard
      > inside the eckankar world. I saw it
      > myself. But here are my two questions
      > for prometheus, or anyone:
      >
      >
      >
      > #1 When a person gets up to the
      > 5th initiation (or beyond), how do
      > they explain to themselves that
      > they're really no different than they
      > ever were?
      >
      > P- People rationalize much of the
      > time, and Klemp encourages his
      > followers to imagine and to pretend
      > "as if." Besides, look at the followers
      > of other religions and how they follow
      > and interpret dogma and rationalize
      > as well. People, also, tend to follow
      > local religious or spiritual experts
      > they have placed trust in, or have
      > put upon a pedestal, because they
      > have direct contact with them versus
      > the "Leader." A local Satsang area
      > can look like a separate sect of that
      > same religion depending upon the
      > RESA. Over decades more dogma, rules,
      > guidelines, and laws get added and
      > "tweaked" which makes everything,
      > Eckankar, more complex and more
      > confusing. This causes Second Guessing
      > and Imbalance and a NEED to have the
      > Leader (HK) explain and reinterpret
      > (over and over) the true meaning behind
      > life and the confusion (of dogma) HK,
      > himself, has revised and promoted.
      > Thus, this Catch-22 ploy, of Klemp's,
      > has created a necessary evil and a
      > never-ending need for a "Living Master"
      > in order for him to de-cypher and
      > clarify the obvious.
      >
      >
      >
      > Have you ever seen any indication
      > that high initiation levels confers
      > any greater awareness, etc upon
      > the initiate?
      >
      > P- Not per se! However, if a person
      > is focused upon self-improvement
      > and upon spiritual growth these goals
      > will be achieved, in part and over time,
      > with or without the help of a "Master,"
      > or a religion to follow. The so-called
      > "Master" just takes credit for what happens
      > naturally when Soul is focused upon
      > the Divine. This is the TRAP and the
      > Catch-22 of all religious dogma.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > #2 Do eckists believe that higher
      > initiate levels correspond to any
      > improvement in their outer circumstances?
      >
      > P- Yes and No! Klemp takes credit for
      > the "Good" that takes place in the lives
      > of his followers. However, "true blue"
      > Eckists Do Not want "good karma" because
      > this too will hinder their spiritual growth.
      > They want to be "above" and "without"
      > karma in a vairag (nonattached/detached)
      > state of mind. Yet, they don't want pain
      > or troubles either. And, when there are
      > problems they see these as "tests." NO
      > where does Klemp, actually, Protect or
      > Heal his chelas, except in chela's dreams
      > and/or imaginations (and delusions),
      > anymore than Jesus or the Virgin Mary,
      > etc. etc do for other religious believers!
      >
      > Getting back to your question-- Many Eckists
      > believe they have used up their "good karma,"
      > for this lifetime, by finding Eckankar and, thus,
      > don't expect prosperity. Most, therefore, have
      > a poverty consciousness and a fatalistic attitude
      > toward life. Eckists, also, have become very
      > codependent upon Klemp and believe in his
      > delusional promises. It's "The Easy Way,"
      > for them, to accept a subservient position
      > as a "follower" rather than take responsibility
      > as SOUL. Thus, Eckists are no different from
      > other faithful religious followers, except, in
      > their minds!
      >
      >
      >
      > Do they believe that their lives become
      > better in any worldly/material kinda way?
      >
      > P- They [Eckists] believe it by rationalizing.
      > Success and materialism can be justified
      > as a "divine gift" in order to reach a different
      > social and/or intellectual group/class of people
      > so that they can spread the "Word" as a vahana/
      > missionary by being an example or a spokes-
      > person... or as (temporary) good karma. And,
      > their material/intellectual success is used by
      > Klemp to attract more professionals to Eckankar.
      > This gives HK's big fat ego an air of respectability
      > (HK is in the International Who's Who of Intellectuals,
      > Ninth edition). And, this, too, is used to prove/
      > show that Eckankar is not a "dangerous" cult.
      > Professionals, also, climb the initiation ladder
      > faster than the average Eckist because they
      > are more high profile, but appearances are
      > very deceiving in this KAL like religion.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > Thanks, moby...
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > In Eckankar the First initiation is said
      > > to, usually, come in The Dream State
      > > by the end of the first year and the
      > > Second initiation is a year later or after
      > > two years of study. An Eckist has to ask
      > > for the Second Initiation, but is forbidden
      > > to ask for any others!
      > >
      > > When do the other initiations come ?
      > > How many are there ? These are just
      > > two questions Eckankar avoids answering.
      > >
      > > Here's what Klemp's EK Lexicon took
      > > from Twitchell's Eckankar Dictionary:
      > >
      > > "INITIATION. The Basic sacrament in ECK;
      > > the First Step on the Path of God via the
      > > ECK; the structure upon the Whole Foundation
      > > of the Spiritual Works are built; the Means
      > > by which the Sacred Forces within the Individual
      > > are Reactivated to Increase and Confer within
      > > Soul the Awareness of the Supernatural state
      > > of Life." [pg. 95]
      > >
      > > It's interesting that PT mentions the "ECK"
      > > and "Sacred Forces" and the "Individual" and
      > > "Soul" while Not mentioning anything about
      > > the Inner Master or the Mahanta!
      > >
      > > "INNER INITIATION. Serves the function
      > > of Raising the Vibrations of the individual
      > > to those of the Nearest Higher Plane. THE
      > > INNER INITIATION MAY COME YEARS BEFORE
      > > THE OUTER INITIATION..."
      > >
      > > It's wishful thinking that many 7ths see
      > > themselves as 8ths (on the inner). What
      > > else do they have? You can't blame them
      > > for pretending "as if" they actually were
      > > 8th initiates after 35-40 years!
      > >
      > > "...The FIRST Initiation is an Inner Initiation
      > > given in the Dream State by the Dream Master.
      > > Sometimes a Chela is Fully Conscious and
      > > can remember everything about it; it prepares
      > > the Chela for the Linkup with the ECK Sound
      > > Current, the Audible Life Stream. ALL INITIATIONS
      > > ABOVE THE EIGHTH ARE INNER INITIATIONS."
      > > [pg. 96]
      > >
      > > BTW, this last statement (above) was added
      > > to PT's definition by Klemp (compare it for
      > > yourself). This is very strange since this EK
      > > Lexicon was written in 1998 and The Masters
      > > 4 Discourses, Lesson 2 was written in 1995.
      > > In Lesson 2 Klemp states that the 9th initiation
      > > has 3 Stages and the Third and Last Stage
      > > is The OUTER Confirmation!
      > >
      > > Thus, Klemp has contradicted himself by
      > > saying that, "All initiations above the eighth
      > > are inner initiations" when the Third and Final
      > > Stage, of the 9th initiation, requires an "outer
      > > confirmation."
      > >
      > > However, there's even more confusion and
      > > secrecy concerning initiations within Eckankar
      > > as there is with other religions and groups.
      > > The secrecy is meant to silence people (chelas)
      > > from scrutinizing this phenomena and these
      > > definitions and criteria more so. Actually,
      > > Eckankar gives NO criteria for obtaining
      > > initiations. Except, a chela must maintain
      > > a current annual membership donation
      > > ($$$).
      > >
      > > Thus, a Requested annual donation amount
      > > is Required for more EK initiations, and to
      > > hold onto positions within the RESA Hierarchy.
      > >
      > > What's interesting is that the 12th Initiation
      > > is actually both Outer and Inner because
      > > the LEM must physically approach and ask
      > > a candidate if they would like to have the
      > > initiation because it, too, requires outer
      > > confirmation.
      > >
      > > However, the 10th and the 11th Initiations
      > > don't require any outer confirmations and
      > > are (both) shorter in time that the First Initiation!
      > > Why's that... convenience?
      > >
      > > Then, of course, it requires an initiator who
      > > has a Higher Initiation Number than the one
      > > being given! Thus, Darwin had to be a 13th
      > > or 14th to have given Klemp his 12th!
      > >
      > > And, what level of initiation is Klemp claiming
      > > to have at this time? The 14th is required
      > > to be a Mahanta (as PT claims), but there
      > > are, supposedly, more and more initiations.
      > > So, what Initiation is Klemp holding onto
      > > now (with a death grip)? Why is this such
      > > a secret? Could it be that HK's a 666th Initiate
      > > while most of his longtime H.I.s are 7ths!
      > >
      > > BTW- Who was the 666th LEM? HK doesn't
      > > even know how Shams died or who that
      > > "Unknown" EK Master was! Why's that?
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      >
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