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Re: The H.I. Letter 09/2009 by Rev. Harold Klemp

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello postekcon and All, Thanks for the post and giving more of this nutty story of Not picking up someone else s money. Actually, if the previous owner is
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 10, 2009
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      Hello postekcon and All,
      Thanks for the post and
      giving more of this nutty
      story of Not picking up
      "someone else's" money.

      Actually, if the previous
      owner is nowhere to be
      found it's, now, ownerless.

      Besides, what amounts are
      we usually talking about...
      $20 dollars or less! Sometimes
      it's just a dime or a quarter.

      Generally, it's a penny or
      one cent! It's hard to believe
      that Eckists are being trained
      (brainwashed) Not to pickup
      a near worthless penny!

      Then again, the real purpose
      of this story is to disguise this
      mind control exercise or technique
      so that Eckists will let their
      guard down and allow this
      thought/concept into their minds.
      This is one more subtle mind
      control technique that Klemp
      is using on his followers.

      When one looks at this story
      and the policy of Not picking
      up found/lost money it doesn't
      make sense. When Eckists start
      to toss out common sense, logic,
      and critical thinking their minds
      become more stuck in dogmatic
      cult think. They accept anything
      on face value and without question.
      Thus, they have become true believers
      (aka mushrooms).

      Prometheus

      postekcon wrote:

      Picking Up Money from the
      Street 'Will Make You Sick'

      Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009

      One day, he [HK follower] was sick.
      He felt an urge to ask God the
      reason for his sickness, his fever.
      In a dream, he was out walking,
      when he came upon some money.
      He bent down and picked it up.
      Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master']
      ran towards him shouting, "Don't
      you know that it is the money you
      pick up that makes you sick? Drop
      it, or you'll be sick again!"

      The dreamer dropped the money.

      When he remembered the dream later,
      it became very clear that picking up
      another's property was the cause of
      his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the
      practice.


      In the above story HK explains how
      when an individual picks up an object
      that was once owned or handled by
      another person, it is 'bad karma'!

      Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual
      principle has been broken [either
      knowingly or unknowingly].

      The followers of HK have a major
      dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
      what spiritual law they've violated
      should they pick up an object from
      the street. And since HK gives them
      no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
      and confusion will follow. So in trying
      to apply this 'new' ruling, will it also
      mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:

      - pick a wild flower or pebble from
      the beach [these will always be owned
      by someone, somewhere]

      - touch any object that was once
      owned or used by another person

      - breathe-in even, lest some of this
      air might contain expelled air from
      another!

      - and what if the object was gathered
      by an animal [they're recognized as soul too]

      - and is the karmic debt to the last handler
      of the property, or last owner/s?

      - and how do they teach their children
      now about 'karma' etc?

      N.B.
      In any case, money itself is never owned,
      it is only a currency [method of barter],
      a promissory 'note'. Written upon the US
      dollar bill are these words: THIS NOTE IS
      LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC
      AND PRIVATE [perhaps the founding fathers
      intended to include karmic debt as well!
      LOL]

      It isn't necessary to elaborate any further
      on the paranoia and lack of understanding
      of the laws of the universe and laws of the
      land, HK demonstrates in his writings.

      CAUSE AND EFFECT
      Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action
      there is an equal and opposite reaction'.
      Commonly known as 'cause and effect',
      this principle seems to give credibility to
      the concept of 'karma'. However, in some
      circles of science [atomic], Newton's law
      of motion is shown to be false.

      In the world of the 'atom', it's been
      scientifically proven that the packets
      or particles of energy which comprise
      the atom, DO NOT follow the principle
      of cause and effect, but instead follow
      randomity. So at atomic level, the principle
      of 'to every action there is an equal and
      opposite reaction' is incorrect.

      Consequently, this makes the case for
      karma wrong, for 'cause and effect' is
      not the way the universe works at all
      at its creative core or spiritual principle.

      So why then at present, is HK so hung-up
      on karma, rather than on fostering true
      creativity and randomity in his followers?
      It is because instilling fear is so effective
      as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
      story [above] is a typical example of how
      HK uses auto-suggestion to consolidate
      habits of introversion in his followers.
      He instills in them fear so they become
      paralysed, unable even to reach out and
      pick up a button off the floor! This pattern
      of behaviour can only lead to mental
      illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' -
      downward spiral. [Remind you of anyone?]

      PS.
      To return to the original story as told by HK,
      it was a madman who explained to the HK
      follower, how picking up coins from the street
      was making him sick! Yes, truly a 'madman'...

      Postekcon



      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      >
      > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
      > entire article makes me question
      > his mental acuity. Really! Something
      > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
      > basic and simple-minded for chelas
      > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
      >
      > HK: "People's states of consciousness
      > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
      > For example, any of us would likely be
      > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
      > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
      > us down in a London marketplace way
      > back in Shakespeare's time."
      >
      > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
      > bad the living conditions were back then
      > versus now. However, what's this about
      > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
      > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
      > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
      > to pick them up and take them to London,
      > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
      > Unknown EK Master?
      >
      > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
      > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
      > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
      > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
      > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
      >
      > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
      > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
      > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
      > a superior/normal consciousness!
      > Isn't it?
      >
      > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
      > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
      > this time around. You need to remember
      > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
      > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
      > lead to love divine."
      >
      > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
      > "the baby you" remembers or did all
      > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
      > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
      > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
      > is talking down, way down, to them!
      > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
      > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
      > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
      > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
      > and that's why it's taking so long...
      > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
      > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
      > Klemp got his share and more!
      >
      > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
      > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
      > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
      > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
      > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
      > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
      > consciousness! Thus, this message is
      > meant to control them (HK needs the
      > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
      > out their long-standing frustrations,
      > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
      > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
      > HK needs to remind them of their place
      > as subordinates and servants within
      > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
      > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
      > Joan will be the one changing the
      > diapers!
      >
      > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
      > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
      > money on the ground and NOT picking
      > it up because IF you do you can get sick
      > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
      > doesn't and never did make sense to
      > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
      > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
      > money as a positive blessing. And,
      > I don't get sick after picking it up and
      > keeping it... never did before EK and
      > don't now!
      >
      > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
      > and negative practice (Black Magic)
      > to believe that found money is karmically
      > bad. However, this superstitious and
      > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
      > believable with most New Age ECKists
      > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
      > What spiritual Law does picking up
      > lost money violate? Klemp is never
      > too specific.
      >
      http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
      >
      > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
      > had been a listener until then, told a story.
      > He admitted to being a lucky person
      > who often found money in the street..."
      >
      > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
      > "Jen" and her depression due to her
      > mother's death and how the Mahanta
      > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
      > one of them via a miracle!
      >
      > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
      > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
      > and had then fallen into a deep state of
      > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
      > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
      > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
      >
      > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
      > so long and then take credit? Why does
      > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
      > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
      > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
      > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
      > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
      >
      > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
      > words of wisdom or via dreams with
      > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
      > make sense that the "Inner Master"
      > takes credit for giving her distractions
      > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
      > rather than resolving the issue of death
      > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
      > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
      > them given to them, after the death of
      > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
      > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
      >
      > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
      > work, the dogs would greet her at the
      > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
      > That all changed one day. Fifi started
      > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
      > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
      > Jen took her to a vet."
      >
      > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
      > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
      > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
      > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
      > dog had to go through this pain because
      > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
      > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
      > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
      > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
      > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
      > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
      > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
      >
      > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
      > a dream with her mother. After all, her
      > mother's death is what caused her suffering
      > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
      > conveniently, skips over addressing this
      > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
      > have a dream experience, with her mother,
      > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
      > depression? What happened to having
      > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
      >
      > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
      > of consciousness do vary. Let others
      > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
      > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
      > [end]
      >
      > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
      > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
      > "states of consciousness do vary"
      > sounds like another clever escape
      > clause.
      >
      > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
      > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
      > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
      > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
      > thus, can only do good and only takes
      > credit for the "good" things that happen!
      > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
      > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
      > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
      >
      > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
      > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
      > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
      > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
      > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
      > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
      > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
      > money for an annual EK membership!
      >
      > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
      > could be used for that annual EK Membership
      > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
      > org. and would support the Mahanta's
      > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
      > one could put the found money in a slot
      > machine and take a chance on winning
      > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
      > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
      >
      >
      > Prometheus
      > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
      > to contradict his own teachings found
      > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
      > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
      > insignificant and irrelevant.
      >
    • whitemoby22
      Postekcon, Back when I was an Eckist (for only two years) I always preferred Twithcell s writings. Klemp, as you say, demonstrates such a high level of
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 10, 2009
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        Postekcon, Back when I was an Eckist (for only two years) I always preferred Twithcell's writings. Klemp, as you say, demonstrates such a high level of stupidity, it would be laughable were it not so frightening. - Of course, back then, I did not know that Twitchell plagarized so much of his work. However, he plagarized from some fascinating stuff, and that was what I responded to. Ultimately, I could not gel the more authentic stuff with the more fantastical stuff.

        moby...



        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Whitemoby22,
        > Prometheus has already commented on most of the article [see below].
        >
        > I wanted to focus on the short 'money' story, within the article, because of the serious implications it can have on the subconscious of unwitting readers. The story is also a good demonstration of the high level of stupidity contained in much of HK's writings, and is similar in effect to how many politicians operate, where a policy is not thought through!
        >
        > The HI letter is sent quarterly to HIs.
        > Postekcon
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@> wrote:
        > >
        > > This story about picking up money is troubling. I would love to read that article. I have access to the regular newsletter, but not to the H.I. Letter. Are the H.I. Letters sent only to HIs?
        > >
        > > Thanks, Postekcon
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Picking Up Money from the Street 'Will Make You Sick'
        > > >
        > > > Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009
        > > > >>
        > > > One day, he [HK follower] was sick. He felt an urge to ask God the
        > > > reason for his sickness, his fever.
        > > > In a dream, he was out walking, when he came upon some money. He bent
        > > > down and picked it up. Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master'] ran
        > > > towards him shouting, "Don't you know that it is the money you pick up
        > > > that makes you sick? Drop it, or you'll be sick again!"
        > > > The dreamer dropped the money. When he remembered the dream later, it
        > > > became very clear that picking up another's property was the cause of
        > > > his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the practice.
        > > > >>
        > > >
        > > > In the above story HK explains how when an individual picks up an object
        > > > that was once owned or handled by another person, it is 'bad karma'!
        > > >
        > > > Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual principle has been broken
        > > > [either knowingly or unknowingly].
        > > >
        > > > The followers of HK have a major dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
        > > > what spiritual law they've violated should they pick up an object from
        > > > the street. And since HK gives them no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
        > > > and confusion will follow. So in trying to apply this 'new' ruling, will
        > > > it also mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:
        > > >
        > > > - pick a wild flower or pebble from the beach [these will always be
        > > > owned by someone, somewhere]
        > > > - touch any object that was once owned or used by another person
        > > > - breathe-in even, lest some of this air might contain expelled air from
        > > > another!
        > > > - and what if the object was gathered by an animal [they're recognized
        > > > as soul too]
        > > > - and is the karmic debt to the last handler of the property, or last
        > > > owner/s?
        > > > - and how do they teach their children now about 'karma' etc?
        > > >
        > > > N.B.
        > > > In any case, money itself is never owned, it is only a currency [method
        > > > of barter], a promissory 'note'.
        > > > Written upon the US dollar bill are these words:
        > > > THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
        > > > [perhaps the founding fathers intended to include karmic debt as well!
        > > > LOL]
        > > >
        > > > It isn't necessary to elaborate any further on the paranoia and lack of
        > > > understanding of the laws of the universe and laws of the land, HK
        > > > demonstrates in his writings.
        > > >
        > > > CAUSE AND EFFECT
        > > > Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action there is an equal and opposite
        > > > reaction'. Commonly known as 'cause and effect', this principle seems to
        > > > give credibility to the concept of 'karma'. However, in some circles of
        > > > science [atomic], Newton's law of motion is shown to be false.
        > > >
        > > > In the world of the 'atom', it's been scientifically proven that the
        > > > packets or particles of energy which comprise the atom, DO NOT follow
        > > > the principle of cause and effect, but instead follow randomity. So at
        > > > atomic level, the principle of 'to every action there is an equal and
        > > > opposite reaction' is incorrect.
        > > >
        > > > Consequently, this makes the case for karma wrong, for 'cause and
        > > > effect' is not the way the universe works at all at its creative core or
        > > > spiritual principle.
        > > >
        > > > So why then at present, is HK so hung-up on karma, rather than on
        > > > fostering true creativity and randomity in his followers? It is because
        > > > instilling fear is so effective as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
        > > > story [above] is a typical example of how HK uses auto-suggestion to
        > > > consolidate habits of introversion in his followers. He instills in them
        > > > fear so they become paralysed, unable even to reach out and pick up a
        > > > button off the floor! This pattern of behaviour can only lead to mental
        > > > illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' - downward spiral.
        > > > [Remind you of anyone?]
        > > >
        > > > PS.
        > > > To return to the original story as told by HK, it was a madman who
        > > > explained to the HK follower, how picking up coins from the street was
        > > > making him sick!
        > > > Yes, truly a 'madman'...
        > > > Postekcon
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hello All,
        > > > >
        > > > > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
        > > > > entire article makes me question
        > > > > his mental acuity. Really! Something
        > > > > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
        > > > > basic and simple-minded for chelas
        > > > > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
        > > > >
        > > > > HK: "People's states of consciousness
        > > > > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
        > > > > For example, any of us would likely be
        > > > > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
        > > > > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
        > > > > us down in a London marketplace way
        > > > > back in Shakespeare's time."
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
        > > > > bad the living conditions were back then
        > > > > versus now. However, what's this about
        > > > > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
        > > > > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
        > > > > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
        > > > > to pick them up and take them to London,
        > > > > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
        > > > > Unknown EK Master?
        > > > >
        > > > > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
        > > > > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
        > > > > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
        > > > > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
        > > > > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
        > > > > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
        > > > > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
        > > > > a superior/normal consciousness!
        > > > > Isn't it?
        > > > >
        > > > > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
        > > > > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
        > > > > this time around. You need to remember
        > > > > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
        > > > > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
        > > > > lead to love divine."
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
        > > > > "the baby you" remembers or did all
        > > > > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
        > > > > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
        > > > > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
        > > > > is talking down, way down, to them!
        > > > > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
        > > > > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
        > > > > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
        > > > > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
        > > > > and that's why it's taking so long...
        > > > > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
        > > > > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
        > > > > Klemp got his share and more!
        > > > >
        > > > > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
        > > > > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
        > > > > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
        > > > > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
        > > > > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
        > > > > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
        > > > > consciousness! Thus, this message is
        > > > > meant to control them (HK needs the
        > > > > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
        > > > > out their long-standing frustrations,
        > > > > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
        > > > > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
        > > > > HK needs to remind them of their place
        > > > > as subordinates and servants within
        > > > > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
        > > > > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
        > > > > Joan will be the one changing the
        > > > > diapers!
        > > > >
        > > > > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
        > > > > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
        > > > > money on the ground and NOT picking
        > > > > it up because IF you do you can get sick
        > > > > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
        > > > > doesn't and never did make sense to
        > > > > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
        > > > > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
        > > > > money as a positive blessing. And,
        > > > > I don't get sick after picking it up and
        > > > > keeping it... never did before EK and
        > > > > don't now!
        > > > >
        > > > > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
        > > > > and negative practice (Black Magic)
        > > > > to believe that found money is karmically
        > > > > bad. However, this superstitious and
        > > > > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
        > > > > believable with most New Age ECKists
        > > > > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
        > > > > What spiritual Law does picking up
        > > > > lost money violate? Klemp is never
        > > > > too specific.
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
        > > > >
        > > > > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
        > > > > had been a listener until then, told a story.
        > > > > He admitted to being a lucky person
        > > > > who often found money in the street..."
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
        > > > > "Jen" and her depression due to her
        > > > > mother's death and how the Mahanta
        > > > > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
        > > > > one of them via a miracle!
        > > > >
        > > > > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
        > > > > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
        > > > > and had then fallen into a deep state of
        > > > > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
        > > > > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
        > > > > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
        > > > > so long and then take credit? Why does
        > > > > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
        > > > > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
        > > > > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
        > > > > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
        > > > > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
        > > > >
        > > > > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
        > > > > words of wisdom or via dreams with
        > > > > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
        > > > > make sense that the "Inner Master"
        > > > > takes credit for giving her distractions
        > > > > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
        > > > > rather than resolving the issue of death
        > > > > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
        > > > > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
        > > > > them given to them, after the death of
        > > > > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
        > > > > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
        > > > >
        > > > > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
        > > > > work, the dogs would greet her at the
        > > > > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
        > > > > That all changed one day. Fifi started
        > > > > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
        > > > > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
        > > > > Jen took her to a vet."
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
        > > > > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
        > > > > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
        > > > > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
        > > > > dog had to go through this pain because
        > > > > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
        > > > > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
        > > > > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
        > > > > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
        > > > > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
        > > > > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
        > > > > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
        > > > >
        > > > > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
        > > > > a dream with her mother. After all, her
        > > > > mother's death is what caused her suffering
        > > > > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
        > > > > conveniently, skips over addressing this
        > > > > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
        > > > > have a dream experience, with her mother,
        > > > > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
        > > > > depression? What happened to having
        > > > > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
        > > > >
        > > > > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
        > > > > of consciousness do vary. Let others
        > > > > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
        > > > > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
        > > > > [end]
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
        > > > > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
        > > > > "states of consciousness do vary"
        > > > > sounds like another clever escape
        > > > > clause.
        > > > >
        > > > > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
        > > > > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
        > > > > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
        > > > > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
        > > > > thus, can only do good and only takes
        > > > > credit for the "good" things that happen!
        > > > > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
        > > > > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
        > > > > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
        > > > >
        > > > > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
        > > > > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
        > > > > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
        > > > > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
        > > > > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
        > > > > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
        > > > > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
        > > > > money for an annual EK membership!
        > > > >
        > > > > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
        > > > > could be used for that annual EK Membership
        > > > > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
        > > > > org. and would support the Mahanta's
        > > > > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
        > > > > one could put the found money in a slot
        > > > > machine and take a chance on winning
        > > > > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
        > > > > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Prometheus
        > > > > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
        > > > > to contradict his own teachings found
        > > > > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
        > > > > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
        > > > > insignificant and irrelevant.
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • postekcon
        MONEY Story, Has Only One Meaning: After picking up an object from the street WASH YOUR HANDS or it will make you sick! LOL! Postekcon
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 10, 2009
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          'MONEY' Story, Has Only One Meaning:

          After picking up an object from the street
          WASH YOUR HANDS
          or it will make you sick! LOL!
          Postekcon


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@...> wrote:
          >
          > Postekcon, Back when I was an Eckist (for only two years) I always preferred Twithcell's writings. Klemp, as you say, demonstrates such a high level of stupidity, it would be laughable were it not so frightening. - Of course, back then, I did not know that Twitchell plagarized so much of his work. However, he plagarized from some fascinating stuff, and that was what I responded to. Ultimately, I could not gel the more authentic stuff with the more fantastical stuff.
          >
          > moby...
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Whitemoby22,
          > > Prometheus has already commented on most of the article [see below].
          > >
          > > I wanted to focus on the short 'money' story, within the article, because of the serious implications it can have on the subconscious of unwitting readers. The story is also a good demonstration of the high level of stupidity contained in much of HK's writings, and is similar in effect to how many politicians operate, where a policy is not thought through!
          > >
          > > The HI letter is sent quarterly to HIs.
          > > Postekcon
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > This story about picking up money is troubling. I would love to read that article. I have access to the regular newsletter, but not to the H.I. Letter. Are the H.I. Letters sent only to HIs?
          > > >
          > > > Thanks, Postekcon
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Picking Up Money from the Street 'Will Make You Sick'
          > > > >
          > > > > Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009
          > > > > >>
          > > > > One day, he [HK follower] was sick. He felt an urge to ask God the
          > > > > reason for his sickness, his fever.
          > > > > In a dream, he was out walking, when he came upon some money. He bent
          > > > > down and picked it up. Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master'] ran
          > > > > towards him shouting, "Don't you know that it is the money you pick up
          > > > > that makes you sick? Drop it, or you'll be sick again!"
          > > > > The dreamer dropped the money. When he remembered the dream later, it
          > > > > became very clear that picking up another's property was the cause of
          > > > > his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the practice.
          > > > > >>
          > > > >
          > > > > In the above story HK explains how when an individual picks up an object
          > > > > that was once owned or handled by another person, it is 'bad karma'!
          > > > >
          > > > > Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual principle has been broken
          > > > > [either knowingly or unknowingly].
          > > > >
          > > > > The followers of HK have a major dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
          > > > > what spiritual law they've violated should they pick up an object from
          > > > > the street. And since HK gives them no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
          > > > > and confusion will follow. So in trying to apply this 'new' ruling, will
          > > > > it also mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:
          > > > >
          > > > > - pick a wild flower or pebble from the beach [these will always be
          > > > > owned by someone, somewhere]
          > > > > - touch any object that was once owned or used by another person
          > > > > - breathe-in even, lest some of this air might contain expelled air from
          > > > > another!
          > > > > - and what if the object was gathered by an animal [they're recognized
          > > > > as soul too]
          > > > > - and is the karmic debt to the last handler of the property, or last
          > > > > owner/s?
          > > > > - and how do they teach their children now about 'karma' etc?
          > > > >
          > > > > N.B.
          > > > > In any case, money itself is never owned, it is only a currency [method
          > > > > of barter], a promissory 'note'.
          > > > > Written upon the US dollar bill are these words:
          > > > > THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
          > > > > [perhaps the founding fathers intended to include karmic debt as well!
          > > > > LOL]
          > > > >
          > > > > It isn't necessary to elaborate any further on the paranoia and lack of
          > > > > understanding of the laws of the universe and laws of the land, HK
          > > > > demonstrates in his writings.
          > > > >
          > > > > CAUSE AND EFFECT
          > > > > Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action there is an equal and opposite
          > > > > reaction'. Commonly known as 'cause and effect', this principle seems to
          > > > > give credibility to the concept of 'karma'. However, in some circles of
          > > > > science [atomic], Newton's law of motion is shown to be false.
          > > > >
          > > > > In the world of the 'atom', it's been scientifically proven that the
          > > > > packets or particles of energy which comprise the atom, DO NOT follow
          > > > > the principle of cause and effect, but instead follow randomity. So at
          > > > > atomic level, the principle of 'to every action there is an equal and
          > > > > opposite reaction' is incorrect.
          > > > >
          > > > > Consequently, this makes the case for karma wrong, for 'cause and
          > > > > effect' is not the way the universe works at all at its creative core or
          > > > > spiritual principle.
          > > > >
          > > > > So why then at present, is HK so hung-up on karma, rather than on
          > > > > fostering true creativity and randomity in his followers? It is because
          > > > > instilling fear is so effective as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
          > > > > story [above] is a typical example of how HK uses auto-suggestion to
          > > > > consolidate habits of introversion in his followers. He instills in them
          > > > > fear so they become paralysed, unable even to reach out and pick up a
          > > > > button off the floor! This pattern of behaviour can only lead to mental
          > > > > illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' - downward spiral.
          > > > > [Remind you of anyone?]
          > > > >
          > > > > PS.
          > > > > To return to the original story as told by HK, it was a madman who
          > > > > explained to the HK follower, how picking up coins from the street was
          > > > > making him sick!
          > > > > Yes, truly a 'madman'...
          > > > > Postekcon
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > > > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Hello All,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
          > > > > > entire article makes me question
          > > > > > his mental acuity. Really! Something
          > > > > > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
          > > > > > basic and simple-minded for chelas
          > > > > > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
          > > > > >
          > > > > > HK: "People's states of consciousness
          > > > > > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
          > > > > > For example, any of us would likely be
          > > > > > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
          > > > > > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
          > > > > > us down in a London marketplace way
          > > > > > back in Shakespeare's time."
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
          > > > > > bad the living conditions were back then
          > > > > > versus now. However, what's this about
          > > > > > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
          > > > > > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
          > > > > > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
          > > > > > to pick them up and take them to London,
          > > > > > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
          > > > > > Unknown EK Master?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
          > > > > > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
          > > > > > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
          > > > > > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
          > > > > > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
          > > > > > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
          > > > > > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
          > > > > > a superior/normal consciousness!
          > > > > > Isn't it?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
          > > > > > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
          > > > > > this time around. You need to remember
          > > > > > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
          > > > > > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
          > > > > > lead to love divine."
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
          > > > > > "the baby you" remembers or did all
          > > > > > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
          > > > > > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
          > > > > > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
          > > > > > is talking down, way down, to them!
          > > > > > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
          > > > > > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
          > > > > > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
          > > > > > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
          > > > > > and that's why it's taking so long...
          > > > > > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
          > > > > > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
          > > > > > Klemp got his share and more!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
          > > > > > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
          > > > > > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
          > > > > > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
          > > > > > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
          > > > > > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
          > > > > > consciousness! Thus, this message is
          > > > > > meant to control them (HK needs the
          > > > > > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
          > > > > > out their long-standing frustrations,
          > > > > > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
          > > > > > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
          > > > > > HK needs to remind them of their place
          > > > > > as subordinates and servants within
          > > > > > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
          > > > > > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
          > > > > > Joan will be the one changing the
          > > > > > diapers!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
          > > > > > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
          > > > > > money on the ground and NOT picking
          > > > > > it up because IF you do you can get sick
          > > > > > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
          > > > > > doesn't and never did make sense to
          > > > > > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
          > > > > > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
          > > > > > money as a positive blessing. And,
          > > > > > I don't get sick after picking it up and
          > > > > > keeping it... never did before EK and
          > > > > > don't now!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
          > > > > > and negative practice (Black Magic)
          > > > > > to believe that found money is karmically
          > > > > > bad. However, this superstitious and
          > > > > > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
          > > > > > believable with most New Age ECKists
          > > > > > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
          > > > > > What spiritual Law does picking up
          > > > > > lost money violate? Klemp is never
          > > > > > too specific.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
          > > > > >
          > > > > > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
          > > > > > had been a listener until then, told a story.
          > > > > > He admitted to being a lucky person
          > > > > > who often found money in the street..."
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
          > > > > > "Jen" and her depression due to her
          > > > > > mother's death and how the Mahanta
          > > > > > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
          > > > > > one of them via a miracle!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
          > > > > > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
          > > > > > and had then fallen into a deep state of
          > > > > > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
          > > > > > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
          > > > > > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
          > > > > > so long and then take credit? Why does
          > > > > > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
          > > > > > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
          > > > > > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
          > > > > > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
          > > > > > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
          > > > > > words of wisdom or via dreams with
          > > > > > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
          > > > > > make sense that the "Inner Master"
          > > > > > takes credit for giving her distractions
          > > > > > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
          > > > > > rather than resolving the issue of death
          > > > > > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
          > > > > > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
          > > > > > them given to them, after the death of
          > > > > > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
          > > > > > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
          > > > > > work, the dogs would greet her at the
          > > > > > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
          > > > > > That all changed one day. Fifi started
          > > > > > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
          > > > > > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
          > > > > > Jen took her to a vet."
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
          > > > > > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
          > > > > > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
          > > > > > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
          > > > > > dog had to go through this pain because
          > > > > > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
          > > > > > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
          > > > > > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
          > > > > > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
          > > > > > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
          > > > > > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
          > > > > > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
          > > > > > a dream with her mother. After all, her
          > > > > > mother's death is what caused her suffering
          > > > > > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
          > > > > > conveniently, skips over addressing this
          > > > > > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
          > > > > > have a dream experience, with her mother,
          > > > > > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
          > > > > > depression? What happened to having
          > > > > > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
          > > > > > of consciousness do vary. Let others
          > > > > > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
          > > > > > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
          > > > > > [end]
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
          > > > > > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
          > > > > > "states of consciousness do vary"
          > > > > > sounds like another clever escape
          > > > > > clause.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
          > > > > > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
          > > > > > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
          > > > > > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
          > > > > > thus, can only do good and only takes
          > > > > > credit for the "good" things that happen!
          > > > > > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
          > > > > > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
          > > > > > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
          > > > > > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
          > > > > > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
          > > > > > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
          > > > > > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
          > > > > > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
          > > > > > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
          > > > > > money for an annual EK membership!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
          > > > > > could be used for that annual EK Membership
          > > > > > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
          > > > > > org. and would support the Mahanta's
          > > > > > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
          > > > > > one could put the found money in a slot
          > > > > > machine and take a chance on winning
          > > > > > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
          > > > > > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Prometheus
          > > > > > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
          > > > > > to contradict his own teachings found
          > > > > > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
          > > > > > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
          > > > > > insignificant and irrelevant.
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • noneckster
          A true Demonstration of Klemp s powers as LEM would be to eat something off of a Walmart parking lot, or to lick a chocolate bar off the same lot that had been
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 11, 2009
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            A true Demonstration of Klemp's powers as LEM would be to eat something off of a Walmart parking lot, or to lick a chocolate bar off the same lot that had been stepped on a lot. LOL And not get sick in any way whatsoever. LOL (No brushing of teeth or mouth wash allowed!)

            Non eckster ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@...> wrote:
            >
            > 'MONEY' Story, Has Only One Meaning:
            >
            > After picking up an object from the street
            > WASH YOUR HANDS
            > or it will make you sick! LOL!
            > Postekcon
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Postekcon, Back when I was an Eckist (for only two years) I always preferred Twithcell's writings. Klemp, as you say, demonstrates such a high level of stupidity, it would be laughable were it not so frightening. - Of course, back then, I did not know that Twitchell plagarized so much of his work. However, he plagarized from some fascinating stuff, and that was what I responded to. Ultimately, I could not gel the more authentic stuff with the more fantastical stuff.
            > >
            > > moby...
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi Whitemoby22,
            > > > Prometheus has already commented on most of the article [see below].
            > > >
            > > > I wanted to focus on the short 'money' story, within the article, because of the serious implications it can have on the subconscious of unwitting readers. The story is also a good demonstration of the high level of stupidity contained in much of HK's writings, and is similar in effect to how many politicians operate, where a policy is not thought through!
            > > >
            > > > The HI letter is sent quarterly to HIs.
            > > > Postekcon
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > This story about picking up money is troubling. I would love to read that article. I have access to the regular newsletter, but not to the H.I. Letter. Are the H.I. Letters sent only to HIs?
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks, Postekcon
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Picking Up Money from the Street 'Will Make You Sick'
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > > One day, he [HK follower] was sick. He felt an urge to ask God the
            > > > > > reason for his sickness, his fever.
            > > > > > In a dream, he was out walking, when he came upon some money. He bent
            > > > > > down and picked it up. Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master'] ran
            > > > > > towards him shouting, "Don't you know that it is the money you pick up
            > > > > > that makes you sick? Drop it, or you'll be sick again!"
            > > > > > The dreamer dropped the money. When he remembered the dream later, it
            > > > > > became very clear that picking up another's property was the cause of
            > > > > > his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the practice.
            > > > > > >>
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In the above story HK explains how when an individual picks up an object
            > > > > > that was once owned or handled by another person, it is 'bad karma'!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual principle has been broken
            > > > > > [either knowingly or unknowingly].
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The followers of HK have a major dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
            > > > > > what spiritual law they've violated should they pick up an object from
            > > > > > the street. And since HK gives them no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
            > > > > > and confusion will follow. So in trying to apply this 'new' ruling, will
            > > > > > it also mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > - pick a wild flower or pebble from the beach [these will always be
            > > > > > owned by someone, somewhere]
            > > > > > - touch any object that was once owned or used by another person
            > > > > > - breathe-in even, lest some of this air might contain expelled air from
            > > > > > another!
            > > > > > - and what if the object was gathered by an animal [they're recognized
            > > > > > as soul too]
            > > > > > - and is the karmic debt to the last handler of the property, or last
            > > > > > owner/s?
            > > > > > - and how do they teach their children now about 'karma' etc?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > N.B.
            > > > > > In any case, money itself is never owned, it is only a currency [method
            > > > > > of barter], a promissory 'note'.
            > > > > > Written upon the US dollar bill are these words:
            > > > > > THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
            > > > > > [perhaps the founding fathers intended to include karmic debt as well!
            > > > > > LOL]
            > > > > >
            > > > > > It isn't necessary to elaborate any further on the paranoia and lack of
            > > > > > understanding of the laws of the universe and laws of the land, HK
            > > > > > demonstrates in his writings.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > CAUSE AND EFFECT
            > > > > > Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action there is an equal and opposite
            > > > > > reaction'. Commonly known as 'cause and effect', this principle seems to
            > > > > > give credibility to the concept of 'karma'. However, in some circles of
            > > > > > science [atomic], Newton's law of motion is shown to be false.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In the world of the 'atom', it's been scientifically proven that the
            > > > > > packets or particles of energy which comprise the atom, DO NOT follow
            > > > > > the principle of cause and effect, but instead follow randomity. So at
            > > > > > atomic level, the principle of 'to every action there is an equal and
            > > > > > opposite reaction' is incorrect.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Consequently, this makes the case for karma wrong, for 'cause and
            > > > > > effect' is not the way the universe works at all at its creative core or
            > > > > > spiritual principle.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > So why then at present, is HK so hung-up on karma, rather than on
            > > > > > fostering true creativity and randomity in his followers? It is because
            > > > > > instilling fear is so effective as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
            > > > > > story [above] is a typical example of how HK uses auto-suggestion to
            > > > > > consolidate habits of introversion in his followers. He instills in them
            > > > > > fear so they become paralysed, unable even to reach out and pick up a
            > > > > > button off the floor! This pattern of behaviour can only lead to mental
            > > > > > illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' - downward spiral.
            > > > > > [Remind you of anyone?]
            > > > > >
            > > > > > PS.
            > > > > > To return to the original story as told by HK, it was a madman who
            > > > > > explained to the HK follower, how picking up coins from the street was
            > > > > > making him sick!
            > > > > > Yes, truly a 'madman'...
            > > > > > Postekcon
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            > > > > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hello All,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
            > > > > > > entire article makes me question
            > > > > > > his mental acuity. Really! Something
            > > > > > > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
            > > > > > > basic and simple-minded for chelas
            > > > > > > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > HK: "People's states of consciousness
            > > > > > > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
            > > > > > > For example, any of us would likely be
            > > > > > > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
            > > > > > > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
            > > > > > > us down in a London marketplace way
            > > > > > > back in Shakespeare's time."
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
            > > > > > > bad the living conditions were back then
            > > > > > > versus now. However, what's this about
            > > > > > > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
            > > > > > > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
            > > > > > > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
            > > > > > > to pick them up and take them to London,
            > > > > > > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
            > > > > > > Unknown EK Master?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
            > > > > > > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
            > > > > > > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
            > > > > > > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
            > > > > > > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
            > > > > > > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
            > > > > > > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
            > > > > > > a superior/normal consciousness!
            > > > > > > Isn't it?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
            > > > > > > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
            > > > > > > this time around. You need to remember
            > > > > > > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
            > > > > > > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
            > > > > > > lead to love divine."
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
            > > > > > > "the baby you" remembers or did all
            > > > > > > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
            > > > > > > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
            > > > > > > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
            > > > > > > is talking down, way down, to them!
            > > > > > > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
            > > > > > > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
            > > > > > > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
            > > > > > > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
            > > > > > > and that's why it's taking so long...
            > > > > > > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
            > > > > > > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
            > > > > > > Klemp got his share and more!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
            > > > > > > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
            > > > > > > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
            > > > > > > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
            > > > > > > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
            > > > > > > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
            > > > > > > consciousness! Thus, this message is
            > > > > > > meant to control them (HK needs the
            > > > > > > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
            > > > > > > out their long-standing frustrations,
            > > > > > > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
            > > > > > > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
            > > > > > > HK needs to remind them of their place
            > > > > > > as subordinates and servants within
            > > > > > > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
            > > > > > > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
            > > > > > > Joan will be the one changing the
            > > > > > > diapers!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
            > > > > > > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
            > > > > > > money on the ground and NOT picking
            > > > > > > it up because IF you do you can get sick
            > > > > > > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
            > > > > > > doesn't and never did make sense to
            > > > > > > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
            > > > > > > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
            > > > > > > money as a positive blessing. And,
            > > > > > > I don't get sick after picking it up and
            > > > > > > keeping it... never did before EK and
            > > > > > > don't now!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
            > > > > > > and negative practice (Black Magic)
            > > > > > > to believe that found money is karmically
            > > > > > > bad. However, this superstitious and
            > > > > > > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
            > > > > > > believable with most New Age ECKists
            > > > > > > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
            > > > > > > What spiritual Law does picking up
            > > > > > > lost money violate? Klemp is never
            > > > > > > too specific.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
            > > > > > > had been a listener until then, told a story.
            > > > > > > He admitted to being a lucky person
            > > > > > > who often found money in the street..."
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
            > > > > > > "Jen" and her depression due to her
            > > > > > > mother's death and how the Mahanta
            > > > > > > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
            > > > > > > one of them via a miracle!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
            > > > > > > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
            > > > > > > and had then fallen into a deep state of
            > > > > > > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
            > > > > > > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
            > > > > > > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
            > > > > > > so long and then take credit? Why does
            > > > > > > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
            > > > > > > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
            > > > > > > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
            > > > > > > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
            > > > > > > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
            > > > > > > words of wisdom or via dreams with
            > > > > > > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
            > > > > > > make sense that the "Inner Master"
            > > > > > > takes credit for giving her distractions
            > > > > > > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
            > > > > > > rather than resolving the issue of death
            > > > > > > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
            > > > > > > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
            > > > > > > them given to them, after the death of
            > > > > > > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
            > > > > > > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
            > > > > > > work, the dogs would greet her at the
            > > > > > > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
            > > > > > > That all changed one day. Fifi started
            > > > > > > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
            > > > > > > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
            > > > > > > Jen took her to a vet."
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
            > > > > > > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
            > > > > > > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
            > > > > > > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
            > > > > > > dog had to go through this pain because
            > > > > > > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
            > > > > > > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
            > > > > > > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
            > > > > > > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
            > > > > > > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
            > > > > > > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
            > > > > > > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
            > > > > > > a dream with her mother. After all, her
            > > > > > > mother's death is what caused her suffering
            > > > > > > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
            > > > > > > conveniently, skips over addressing this
            > > > > > > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
            > > > > > > have a dream experience, with her mother,
            > > > > > > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
            > > > > > > depression? What happened to having
            > > > > > > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
            > > > > > > of consciousness do vary. Let others
            > > > > > > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
            > > > > > > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
            > > > > > > [end]
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
            > > > > > > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
            > > > > > > "states of consciousness do vary"
            > > > > > > sounds like another clever escape
            > > > > > > clause.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
            > > > > > > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
            > > > > > > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
            > > > > > > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
            > > > > > > thus, can only do good and only takes
            > > > > > > credit for the "good" things that happen!
            > > > > > > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
            > > > > > > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
            > > > > > > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
            > > > > > > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
            > > > > > > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
            > > > > > > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
            > > > > > > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
            > > > > > > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
            > > > > > > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
            > > > > > > money for an annual EK membership!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
            > > > > > > could be used for that annual EK Membership
            > > > > > > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
            > > > > > > org. and would support the Mahanta's
            > > > > > > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
            > > > > > > one could put the found money in a slot
            > > > > > > machine and take a chance on winning
            > > > > > > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
            > > > > > > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Prometheus
            > > > > > > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
            > > > > > > to contradict his own teachings found
            > > > > > > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
            > > > > > > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
            > > > > > > insignificant and irrelevant.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
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