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Re: The H.I. Letter 09/2009 by Rev. Harold Klemp

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  • postekcon
    Hi Whitemoby22, Prometheus has already commented on most of the article [see below]. I wanted to focus on the short money story, within the article, because
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 10, 2009
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      Hi Whitemoby22,
      Prometheus has already commented on most of the article [see below].

      I wanted to focus on the short 'money' story, within the article, because of the serious implications it can have on the subconscious of unwitting readers. The story is also a good demonstration of the high level of stupidity contained in much of HK's writings, and is similar in effect to how many politicians operate, where a policy is not thought through!

      The HI letter is sent quarterly to HIs.
      Postekcon


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@...> wrote:
      >
      > This story about picking up money is troubling. I would love to read that article. I have access to the regular newsletter, but not to the H.I. Letter. Are the H.I. Letters sent only to HIs?
      >
      > Thanks, Postekcon
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Picking Up Money from the Street 'Will Make You Sick'
      > >
      > > Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009
      > > >>
      > > One day, he [HK follower] was sick. He felt an urge to ask God the
      > > reason for his sickness, his fever.
      > > In a dream, he was out walking, when he came upon some money. He bent
      > > down and picked it up. Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master'] ran
      > > towards him shouting, "Don't you know that it is the money you pick up
      > > that makes you sick? Drop it, or you'll be sick again!"
      > > The dreamer dropped the money. When he remembered the dream later, it
      > > became very clear that picking up another's property was the cause of
      > > his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the practice.
      > > >>
      > >
      > > In the above story HK explains how when an individual picks up an object
      > > that was once owned or handled by another person, it is 'bad karma'!
      > >
      > > Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual principle has been broken
      > > [either knowingly or unknowingly].
      > >
      > > The followers of HK have a major dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
      > > what spiritual law they've violated should they pick up an object from
      > > the street. And since HK gives them no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
      > > and confusion will follow. So in trying to apply this 'new' ruling, will
      > > it also mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:
      > >
      > > - pick a wild flower or pebble from the beach [these will always be
      > > owned by someone, somewhere]
      > > - touch any object that was once owned or used by another person
      > > - breathe-in even, lest some of this air might contain expelled air from
      > > another!
      > > - and what if the object was gathered by an animal [they're recognized
      > > as soul too]
      > > - and is the karmic debt to the last handler of the property, or last
      > > owner/s?
      > > - and how do they teach their children now about 'karma' etc?
      > >
      > > N.B.
      > > In any case, money itself is never owned, it is only a currency [method
      > > of barter], a promissory 'note'.
      > > Written upon the US dollar bill are these words:
      > > THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
      > > [perhaps the founding fathers intended to include karmic debt as well!
      > > LOL]
      > >
      > > It isn't necessary to elaborate any further on the paranoia and lack of
      > > understanding of the laws of the universe and laws of the land, HK
      > > demonstrates in his writings.
      > >
      > > CAUSE AND EFFECT
      > > Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action there is an equal and opposite
      > > reaction'. Commonly known as 'cause and effect', this principle seems to
      > > give credibility to the concept of 'karma'. However, in some circles of
      > > science [atomic], Newton's law of motion is shown to be false.
      > >
      > > In the world of the 'atom', it's been scientifically proven that the
      > > packets or particles of energy which comprise the atom, DO NOT follow
      > > the principle of cause and effect, but instead follow randomity. So at
      > > atomic level, the principle of 'to every action there is an equal and
      > > opposite reaction' is incorrect.
      > >
      > > Consequently, this makes the case for karma wrong, for 'cause and
      > > effect' is not the way the universe works at all at its creative core or
      > > spiritual principle.
      > >
      > > So why then at present, is HK so hung-up on karma, rather than on
      > > fostering true creativity and randomity in his followers? It is because
      > > instilling fear is so effective as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
      > > story [above] is a typical example of how HK uses auto-suggestion to
      > > consolidate habits of introversion in his followers. He instills in them
      > > fear so they become paralysed, unable even to reach out and pick up a
      > > button off the floor! This pattern of behaviour can only lead to mental
      > > illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' - downward spiral.
      > > [Remind you of anyone?]
      > >
      > > PS.
      > > To return to the original story as told by HK, it was a madman who
      > > explained to the HK follower, how picking up coins from the street was
      > > making him sick!
      > > Yes, truly a 'madman'...
      > > Postekcon
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello All,
      > > >
      > > > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
      > > > entire article makes me question
      > > > his mental acuity. Really! Something
      > > > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
      > > > basic and simple-minded for chelas
      > > > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
      > > >
      > > > HK: "People's states of consciousness
      > > > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
      > > > For example, any of us would likely be
      > > > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
      > > > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
      > > > us down in a London marketplace way
      > > > back in Shakespeare's time."
      > > >
      > > > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
      > > > bad the living conditions were back then
      > > > versus now. However, what's this about
      > > > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
      > > > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
      > > > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
      > > > to pick them up and take them to London,
      > > > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
      > > > Unknown EK Master?
      > > >
      > > > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
      > > > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
      > > > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
      > > > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
      > > > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
      > > >
      > > > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
      > > > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
      > > > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
      > > > a superior/normal consciousness!
      > > > Isn't it?
      > > >
      > > > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
      > > > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
      > > > this time around. You need to remember
      > > > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
      > > > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
      > > > lead to love divine."
      > > >
      > > > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
      > > > "the baby you" remembers or did all
      > > > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
      > > > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
      > > > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
      > > > is talking down, way down, to them!
      > > > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
      > > > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
      > > > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
      > > > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
      > > > and that's why it's taking so long...
      > > > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
      > > > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
      > > > Klemp got his share and more!
      > > >
      > > > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
      > > > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
      > > > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
      > > > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
      > > > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
      > > > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
      > > > consciousness! Thus, this message is
      > > > meant to control them (HK needs the
      > > > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
      > > > out their long-standing frustrations,
      > > > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
      > > > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
      > > > HK needs to remind them of their place
      > > > as subordinates and servants within
      > > > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
      > > > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
      > > > Joan will be the one changing the
      > > > diapers!
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
      > > > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
      > > > money on the ground and NOT picking
      > > > it up because IF you do you can get sick
      > > > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
      > > > doesn't and never did make sense to
      > > > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
      > > > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
      > > > money as a positive blessing. And,
      > > > I don't get sick after picking it up and
      > > > keeping it... never did before EK and
      > > > don't now!
      > > >
      > > > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
      > > > and negative practice (Black Magic)
      > > > to believe that found money is karmically
      > > > bad. However, this superstitious and
      > > > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
      > > > believable with most New Age ECKists
      > > > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
      > > > What spiritual Law does picking up
      > > > lost money violate? Klemp is never
      > > > too specific.
      > > >
      > > > http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
      > > >
      > > > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
      > > > had been a listener until then, told a story.
      > > > He admitted to being a lucky person
      > > > who often found money in the street..."
      > > >
      > > > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
      > > > "Jen" and her depression due to her
      > > > mother's death and how the Mahanta
      > > > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
      > > > one of them via a miracle!
      > > >
      > > > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
      > > > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
      > > > and had then fallen into a deep state of
      > > > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
      > > > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
      > > > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
      > > >
      > > > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
      > > > so long and then take credit? Why does
      > > > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
      > > > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
      > > > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
      > > > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
      > > > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
      > > >
      > > > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
      > > > words of wisdom or via dreams with
      > > > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
      > > > make sense that the "Inner Master"
      > > > takes credit for giving her distractions
      > > > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
      > > > rather than resolving the issue of death
      > > > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
      > > > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
      > > > them given to them, after the death of
      > > > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
      > > > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
      > > >
      > > > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
      > > > work, the dogs would greet her at the
      > > > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
      > > > That all changed one day. Fifi started
      > > > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
      > > > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
      > > > Jen took her to a vet."
      > > >
      > > > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
      > > > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
      > > > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
      > > > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
      > > > dog had to go through this pain because
      > > > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
      > > > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
      > > > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
      > > > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
      > > > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
      > > > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
      > > > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
      > > >
      > > > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
      > > > a dream with her mother. After all, her
      > > > mother's death is what caused her suffering
      > > > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
      > > > conveniently, skips over addressing this
      > > > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
      > > > have a dream experience, with her mother,
      > > > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
      > > > depression? What happened to having
      > > > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
      > > >
      > > > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
      > > > of consciousness do vary. Let others
      > > > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
      > > > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
      > > > [end]
      > > >
      > > > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
      > > > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
      > > > "states of consciousness do vary"
      > > > sounds like another clever escape
      > > > clause.
      > > >
      > > > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
      > > > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
      > > > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
      > > > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
      > > > thus, can only do good and only takes
      > > > credit for the "good" things that happen!
      > > > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
      > > > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
      > > > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
      > > >
      > > > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
      > > > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
      > > > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
      > > > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
      > > > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
      > > > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
      > > > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
      > > > money for an annual EK membership!
      > > >
      > > > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
      > > > could be used for that annual EK Membership
      > > > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
      > > > org. and would support the Mahanta's
      > > > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
      > > > one could put the found money in a slot
      > > > machine and take a chance on winning
      > > > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
      > > > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
      > > > to contradict his own teachings found
      > > > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
      > > > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
      > > > insignificant and irrelevant.
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello postekcon and All, Thanks for the post and giving more of this nutty story of Not picking up someone else s money. Actually, if the previous owner is
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 10, 2009
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        Hello postekcon and All,
        Thanks for the post and
        giving more of this nutty
        story of Not picking up
        "someone else's" money.

        Actually, if the previous
        owner is nowhere to be
        found it's, now, ownerless.

        Besides, what amounts are
        we usually talking about...
        $20 dollars or less! Sometimes
        it's just a dime or a quarter.

        Generally, it's a penny or
        one cent! It's hard to believe
        that Eckists are being trained
        (brainwashed) Not to pickup
        a near worthless penny!

        Then again, the real purpose
        of this story is to disguise this
        mind control exercise or technique
        so that Eckists will let their
        guard down and allow this
        thought/concept into their minds.
        This is one more subtle mind
        control technique that Klemp
        is using on his followers.

        When one looks at this story
        and the policy of Not picking
        up found/lost money it doesn't
        make sense. When Eckists start
        to toss out common sense, logic,
        and critical thinking their minds
        become more stuck in dogmatic
        cult think. They accept anything
        on face value and without question.
        Thus, they have become true believers
        (aka mushrooms).

        Prometheus

        postekcon wrote:

        Picking Up Money from the
        Street 'Will Make You Sick'

        Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009

        One day, he [HK follower] was sick.
        He felt an urge to ask God the
        reason for his sickness, his fever.
        In a dream, he was out walking,
        when he came upon some money.
        He bent down and picked it up.
        Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master']
        ran towards him shouting, "Don't
        you know that it is the money you
        pick up that makes you sick? Drop
        it, or you'll be sick again!"

        The dreamer dropped the money.

        When he remembered the dream later,
        it became very clear that picking up
        another's property was the cause of
        his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the
        practice.


        In the above story HK explains how
        when an individual picks up an object
        that was once owned or handled by
        another person, it is 'bad karma'!

        Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual
        principle has been broken [either
        knowingly or unknowingly].

        The followers of HK have a major
        dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
        what spiritual law they've violated
        should they pick up an object from
        the street. And since HK gives them
        no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
        and confusion will follow. So in trying
        to apply this 'new' ruling, will it also
        mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:

        - pick a wild flower or pebble from
        the beach [these will always be owned
        by someone, somewhere]

        - touch any object that was once
        owned or used by another person

        - breathe-in even, lest some of this
        air might contain expelled air from
        another!

        - and what if the object was gathered
        by an animal [they're recognized as soul too]

        - and is the karmic debt to the last handler
        of the property, or last owner/s?

        - and how do they teach their children
        now about 'karma' etc?

        N.B.
        In any case, money itself is never owned,
        it is only a currency [method of barter],
        a promissory 'note'. Written upon the US
        dollar bill are these words: THIS NOTE IS
        LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC
        AND PRIVATE [perhaps the founding fathers
        intended to include karmic debt as well!
        LOL]

        It isn't necessary to elaborate any further
        on the paranoia and lack of understanding
        of the laws of the universe and laws of the
        land, HK demonstrates in his writings.

        CAUSE AND EFFECT
        Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action
        there is an equal and opposite reaction'.
        Commonly known as 'cause and effect',
        this principle seems to give credibility to
        the concept of 'karma'. However, in some
        circles of science [atomic], Newton's law
        of motion is shown to be false.

        In the world of the 'atom', it's been
        scientifically proven that the packets
        or particles of energy which comprise
        the atom, DO NOT follow the principle
        of cause and effect, but instead follow
        randomity. So at atomic level, the principle
        of 'to every action there is an equal and
        opposite reaction' is incorrect.

        Consequently, this makes the case for
        karma wrong, for 'cause and effect' is
        not the way the universe works at all
        at its creative core or spiritual principle.

        So why then at present, is HK so hung-up
        on karma, rather than on fostering true
        creativity and randomity in his followers?
        It is because instilling fear is so effective
        as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
        story [above] is a typical example of how
        HK uses auto-suggestion to consolidate
        habits of introversion in his followers.
        He instills in them fear so they become
        paralysed, unable even to reach out and
        pick up a button off the floor! This pattern
        of behaviour can only lead to mental
        illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' -
        downward spiral. [Remind you of anyone?]

        PS.
        To return to the original story as told by HK,
        it was a madman who explained to the HK
        follower, how picking up coins from the street
        was making him sick! Yes, truly a 'madman'...

        Postekcon



        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        >
        > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
        > entire article makes me question
        > his mental acuity. Really! Something
        > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
        > basic and simple-minded for chelas
        > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
        >
        > HK: "People's states of consciousness
        > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
        > For example, any of us would likely be
        > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
        > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
        > us down in a London marketplace way
        > back in Shakespeare's time."
        >
        > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
        > bad the living conditions were back then
        > versus now. However, what's this about
        > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
        > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
        > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
        > to pick them up and take them to London,
        > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
        > Unknown EK Master?
        >
        > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
        > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
        > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
        > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
        > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
        >
        > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
        > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
        > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
        > a superior/normal consciousness!
        > Isn't it?
        >
        > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
        > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
        > this time around. You need to remember
        > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
        > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
        > lead to love divine."
        >
        > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
        > "the baby you" remembers or did all
        > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
        > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
        > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
        > is talking down, way down, to them!
        > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
        > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
        > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
        > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
        > and that's why it's taking so long...
        > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
        > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
        > Klemp got his share and more!
        >
        > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
        > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
        > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
        > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
        > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
        > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
        > consciousness! Thus, this message is
        > meant to control them (HK needs the
        > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
        > out their long-standing frustrations,
        > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
        > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
        > HK needs to remind them of their place
        > as subordinates and servants within
        > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
        > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
        > Joan will be the one changing the
        > diapers!
        >
        > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
        > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
        > money on the ground and NOT picking
        > it up because IF you do you can get sick
        > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
        > doesn't and never did make sense to
        > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
        > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
        > money as a positive blessing. And,
        > I don't get sick after picking it up and
        > keeping it... never did before EK and
        > don't now!
        >
        > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
        > and negative practice (Black Magic)
        > to believe that found money is karmically
        > bad. However, this superstitious and
        > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
        > believable with most New Age ECKists
        > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
        > What spiritual Law does picking up
        > lost money violate? Klemp is never
        > too specific.
        >
        http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
        >
        > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
        > had been a listener until then, told a story.
        > He admitted to being a lucky person
        > who often found money in the street..."
        >
        > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
        > "Jen" and her depression due to her
        > mother's death and how the Mahanta
        > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
        > one of them via a miracle!
        >
        > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
        > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
        > and had then fallen into a deep state of
        > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
        > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
        > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
        >
        > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
        > so long and then take credit? Why does
        > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
        > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
        > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
        > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
        > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
        >
        > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
        > words of wisdom or via dreams with
        > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
        > make sense that the "Inner Master"
        > takes credit for giving her distractions
        > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
        > rather than resolving the issue of death
        > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
        > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
        > them given to them, after the death of
        > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
        > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
        >
        > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
        > work, the dogs would greet her at the
        > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
        > That all changed one day. Fifi started
        > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
        > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
        > Jen took her to a vet."
        >
        > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
        > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
        > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
        > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
        > dog had to go through this pain because
        > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
        > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
        > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
        > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
        > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
        > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
        > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
        >
        > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
        > a dream with her mother. After all, her
        > mother's death is what caused her suffering
        > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
        > conveniently, skips over addressing this
        > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
        > have a dream experience, with her mother,
        > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
        > depression? What happened to having
        > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
        >
        > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
        > of consciousness do vary. Let others
        > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
        > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
        > [end]
        >
        > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
        > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
        > "states of consciousness do vary"
        > sounds like another clever escape
        > clause.
        >
        > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
        > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
        > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
        > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
        > thus, can only do good and only takes
        > credit for the "good" things that happen!
        > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
        > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
        > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
        >
        > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
        > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
        > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
        > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
        > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
        > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
        > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
        > money for an annual EK membership!
        >
        > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
        > could be used for that annual EK Membership
        > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
        > org. and would support the Mahanta's
        > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
        > one could put the found money in a slot
        > machine and take a chance on winning
        > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
        > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
        > to contradict his own teachings found
        > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
        > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
        > insignificant and irrelevant.
        >
      • whitemoby22
        Postekcon, Back when I was an Eckist (for only two years) I always preferred Twithcell s writings. Klemp, as you say, demonstrates such a high level of
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 10, 2009
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          Postekcon, Back when I was an Eckist (for only two years) I always preferred Twithcell's writings. Klemp, as you say, demonstrates such a high level of stupidity, it would be laughable were it not so frightening. - Of course, back then, I did not know that Twitchell plagarized so much of his work. However, he plagarized from some fascinating stuff, and that was what I responded to. Ultimately, I could not gel the more authentic stuff with the more fantastical stuff.

          moby...



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Whitemoby22,
          > Prometheus has already commented on most of the article [see below].
          >
          > I wanted to focus on the short 'money' story, within the article, because of the serious implications it can have on the subconscious of unwitting readers. The story is also a good demonstration of the high level of stupidity contained in much of HK's writings, and is similar in effect to how many politicians operate, where a policy is not thought through!
          >
          > The HI letter is sent quarterly to HIs.
          > Postekcon
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@> wrote:
          > >
          > > This story about picking up money is troubling. I would love to read that article. I have access to the regular newsletter, but not to the H.I. Letter. Are the H.I. Letters sent only to HIs?
          > >
          > > Thanks, Postekcon
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Picking Up Money from the Street 'Will Make You Sick'
          > > >
          > > > Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009
          > > > >>
          > > > One day, he [HK follower] was sick. He felt an urge to ask God the
          > > > reason for his sickness, his fever.
          > > > In a dream, he was out walking, when he came upon some money. He bent
          > > > down and picked it up. Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master'] ran
          > > > towards him shouting, "Don't you know that it is the money you pick up
          > > > that makes you sick? Drop it, or you'll be sick again!"
          > > > The dreamer dropped the money. When he remembered the dream later, it
          > > > became very clear that picking up another's property was the cause of
          > > > his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the practice.
          > > > >>
          > > >
          > > > In the above story HK explains how when an individual picks up an object
          > > > that was once owned or handled by another person, it is 'bad karma'!
          > > >
          > > > Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual principle has been broken
          > > > [either knowingly or unknowingly].
          > > >
          > > > The followers of HK have a major dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
          > > > what spiritual law they've violated should they pick up an object from
          > > > the street. And since HK gives them no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
          > > > and confusion will follow. So in trying to apply this 'new' ruling, will
          > > > it also mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:
          > > >
          > > > - pick a wild flower or pebble from the beach [these will always be
          > > > owned by someone, somewhere]
          > > > - touch any object that was once owned or used by another person
          > > > - breathe-in even, lest some of this air might contain expelled air from
          > > > another!
          > > > - and what if the object was gathered by an animal [they're recognized
          > > > as soul too]
          > > > - and is the karmic debt to the last handler of the property, or last
          > > > owner/s?
          > > > - and how do they teach their children now about 'karma' etc?
          > > >
          > > > N.B.
          > > > In any case, money itself is never owned, it is only a currency [method
          > > > of barter], a promissory 'note'.
          > > > Written upon the US dollar bill are these words:
          > > > THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
          > > > [perhaps the founding fathers intended to include karmic debt as well!
          > > > LOL]
          > > >
          > > > It isn't necessary to elaborate any further on the paranoia and lack of
          > > > understanding of the laws of the universe and laws of the land, HK
          > > > demonstrates in his writings.
          > > >
          > > > CAUSE AND EFFECT
          > > > Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action there is an equal and opposite
          > > > reaction'. Commonly known as 'cause and effect', this principle seems to
          > > > give credibility to the concept of 'karma'. However, in some circles of
          > > > science [atomic], Newton's law of motion is shown to be false.
          > > >
          > > > In the world of the 'atom', it's been scientifically proven that the
          > > > packets or particles of energy which comprise the atom, DO NOT follow
          > > > the principle of cause and effect, but instead follow randomity. So at
          > > > atomic level, the principle of 'to every action there is an equal and
          > > > opposite reaction' is incorrect.
          > > >
          > > > Consequently, this makes the case for karma wrong, for 'cause and
          > > > effect' is not the way the universe works at all at its creative core or
          > > > spiritual principle.
          > > >
          > > > So why then at present, is HK so hung-up on karma, rather than on
          > > > fostering true creativity and randomity in his followers? It is because
          > > > instilling fear is so effective as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
          > > > story [above] is a typical example of how HK uses auto-suggestion to
          > > > consolidate habits of introversion in his followers. He instills in them
          > > > fear so they become paralysed, unable even to reach out and pick up a
          > > > button off the floor! This pattern of behaviour can only lead to mental
          > > > illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' - downward spiral.
          > > > [Remind you of anyone?]
          > > >
          > > > PS.
          > > > To return to the original story as told by HK, it was a madman who
          > > > explained to the HK follower, how picking up coins from the street was
          > > > making him sick!
          > > > Yes, truly a 'madman'...
          > > > Postekcon
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hello All,
          > > > >
          > > > > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
          > > > > entire article makes me question
          > > > > his mental acuity. Really! Something
          > > > > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
          > > > > basic and simple-minded for chelas
          > > > > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
          > > > >
          > > > > HK: "People's states of consciousness
          > > > > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
          > > > > For example, any of us would likely be
          > > > > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
          > > > > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
          > > > > us down in a London marketplace way
          > > > > back in Shakespeare's time."
          > > > >
          > > > > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
          > > > > bad the living conditions were back then
          > > > > versus now. However, what's this about
          > > > > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
          > > > > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
          > > > > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
          > > > > to pick them up and take them to London,
          > > > > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
          > > > > Unknown EK Master?
          > > > >
          > > > > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
          > > > > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
          > > > > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
          > > > > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
          > > > > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
          > > > >
          > > > > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
          > > > > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
          > > > > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
          > > > > a superior/normal consciousness!
          > > > > Isn't it?
          > > > >
          > > > > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
          > > > > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
          > > > > this time around. You need to remember
          > > > > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
          > > > > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
          > > > > lead to love divine."
          > > > >
          > > > > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
          > > > > "the baby you" remembers or did all
          > > > > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
          > > > > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
          > > > > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
          > > > > is talking down, way down, to them!
          > > > > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
          > > > > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
          > > > > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
          > > > > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
          > > > > and that's why it's taking so long...
          > > > > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
          > > > > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
          > > > > Klemp got his share and more!
          > > > >
          > > > > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
          > > > > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
          > > > > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
          > > > > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
          > > > > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
          > > > > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
          > > > > consciousness! Thus, this message is
          > > > > meant to control them (HK needs the
          > > > > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
          > > > > out their long-standing frustrations,
          > > > > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
          > > > > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
          > > > > HK needs to remind them of their place
          > > > > as subordinates and servants within
          > > > > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
          > > > > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
          > > > > Joan will be the one changing the
          > > > > diapers!
          > > > >
          > > > > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
          > > > > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
          > > > > money on the ground and NOT picking
          > > > > it up because IF you do you can get sick
          > > > > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
          > > > > doesn't and never did make sense to
          > > > > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
          > > > > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
          > > > > money as a positive blessing. And,
          > > > > I don't get sick after picking it up and
          > > > > keeping it... never did before EK and
          > > > > don't now!
          > > > >
          > > > > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
          > > > > and negative practice (Black Magic)
          > > > > to believe that found money is karmically
          > > > > bad. However, this superstitious and
          > > > > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
          > > > > believable with most New Age ECKists
          > > > > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
          > > > > What spiritual Law does picking up
          > > > > lost money violate? Klemp is never
          > > > > too specific.
          > > > >
          > > > > http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
          > > > >
          > > > > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
          > > > > had been a listener until then, told a story.
          > > > > He admitted to being a lucky person
          > > > > who often found money in the street..."
          > > > >
          > > > > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
          > > > > "Jen" and her depression due to her
          > > > > mother's death and how the Mahanta
          > > > > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
          > > > > one of them via a miracle!
          > > > >
          > > > > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
          > > > > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
          > > > > and had then fallen into a deep state of
          > > > > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
          > > > > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
          > > > > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
          > > > >
          > > > > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
          > > > > so long and then take credit? Why does
          > > > > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
          > > > > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
          > > > > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
          > > > > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
          > > > > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
          > > > >
          > > > > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
          > > > > words of wisdom or via dreams with
          > > > > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
          > > > > make sense that the "Inner Master"
          > > > > takes credit for giving her distractions
          > > > > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
          > > > > rather than resolving the issue of death
          > > > > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
          > > > > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
          > > > > them given to them, after the death of
          > > > > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
          > > > > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
          > > > >
          > > > > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
          > > > > work, the dogs would greet her at the
          > > > > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
          > > > > That all changed one day. Fifi started
          > > > > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
          > > > > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
          > > > > Jen took her to a vet."
          > > > >
          > > > > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
          > > > > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
          > > > > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
          > > > > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
          > > > > dog had to go through this pain because
          > > > > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
          > > > > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
          > > > > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
          > > > > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
          > > > > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
          > > > > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
          > > > > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
          > > > >
          > > > > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
          > > > > a dream with her mother. After all, her
          > > > > mother's death is what caused her suffering
          > > > > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
          > > > > conveniently, skips over addressing this
          > > > > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
          > > > > have a dream experience, with her mother,
          > > > > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
          > > > > depression? What happened to having
          > > > > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
          > > > >
          > > > > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
          > > > > of consciousness do vary. Let others
          > > > > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
          > > > > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
          > > > > [end]
          > > > >
          > > > > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
          > > > > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
          > > > > "states of consciousness do vary"
          > > > > sounds like another clever escape
          > > > > clause.
          > > > >
          > > > > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
          > > > > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
          > > > > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
          > > > > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
          > > > > thus, can only do good and only takes
          > > > > credit for the "good" things that happen!
          > > > > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
          > > > > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
          > > > > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
          > > > >
          > > > > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
          > > > > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
          > > > > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
          > > > > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
          > > > > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
          > > > > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
          > > > > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
          > > > > money for an annual EK membership!
          > > > >
          > > > > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
          > > > > could be used for that annual EK Membership
          > > > > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
          > > > > org. and would support the Mahanta's
          > > > > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
          > > > > one could put the found money in a slot
          > > > > machine and take a chance on winning
          > > > > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
          > > > > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Prometheus
          > > > > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
          > > > > to contradict his own teachings found
          > > > > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
          > > > > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
          > > > > insignificant and irrelevant.
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • postekcon
          MONEY Story, Has Only One Meaning: After picking up an object from the street WASH YOUR HANDS or it will make you sick! LOL! Postekcon
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 10, 2009
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            'MONEY' Story, Has Only One Meaning:

            After picking up an object from the street
            WASH YOUR HANDS
            or it will make you sick! LOL!
            Postekcon


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@...> wrote:
            >
            > Postekcon, Back when I was an Eckist (for only two years) I always preferred Twithcell's writings. Klemp, as you say, demonstrates such a high level of stupidity, it would be laughable were it not so frightening. - Of course, back then, I did not know that Twitchell plagarized so much of his work. However, he plagarized from some fascinating stuff, and that was what I responded to. Ultimately, I could not gel the more authentic stuff with the more fantastical stuff.
            >
            > moby...
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Whitemoby22,
            > > Prometheus has already commented on most of the article [see below].
            > >
            > > I wanted to focus on the short 'money' story, within the article, because of the serious implications it can have on the subconscious of unwitting readers. The story is also a good demonstration of the high level of stupidity contained in much of HK's writings, and is similar in effect to how many politicians operate, where a policy is not thought through!
            > >
            > > The HI letter is sent quarterly to HIs.
            > > Postekcon
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > This story about picking up money is troubling. I would love to read that article. I have access to the regular newsletter, but not to the H.I. Letter. Are the H.I. Letters sent only to HIs?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks, Postekcon
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Picking Up Money from the Street 'Will Make You Sick'
            > > > >
            > > > > Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009
            > > > > >>
            > > > > One day, he [HK follower] was sick. He felt an urge to ask God the
            > > > > reason for his sickness, his fever.
            > > > > In a dream, he was out walking, when he came upon some money. He bent
            > > > > down and picked it up. Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master'] ran
            > > > > towards him shouting, "Don't you know that it is the money you pick up
            > > > > that makes you sick? Drop it, or you'll be sick again!"
            > > > > The dreamer dropped the money. When he remembered the dream later, it
            > > > > became very clear that picking up another's property was the cause of
            > > > > his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the practice.
            > > > > >>
            > > > >
            > > > > In the above story HK explains how when an individual picks up an object
            > > > > that was once owned or handled by another person, it is 'bad karma'!
            > > > >
            > > > > Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual principle has been broken
            > > > > [either knowingly or unknowingly].
            > > > >
            > > > > The followers of HK have a major dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
            > > > > what spiritual law they've violated should they pick up an object from
            > > > > the street. And since HK gives them no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
            > > > > and confusion will follow. So in trying to apply this 'new' ruling, will
            > > > > it also mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:
            > > > >
            > > > > - pick a wild flower or pebble from the beach [these will always be
            > > > > owned by someone, somewhere]
            > > > > - touch any object that was once owned or used by another person
            > > > > - breathe-in even, lest some of this air might contain expelled air from
            > > > > another!
            > > > > - and what if the object was gathered by an animal [they're recognized
            > > > > as soul too]
            > > > > - and is the karmic debt to the last handler of the property, or last
            > > > > owner/s?
            > > > > - and how do they teach their children now about 'karma' etc?
            > > > >
            > > > > N.B.
            > > > > In any case, money itself is never owned, it is only a currency [method
            > > > > of barter], a promissory 'note'.
            > > > > Written upon the US dollar bill are these words:
            > > > > THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
            > > > > [perhaps the founding fathers intended to include karmic debt as well!
            > > > > LOL]
            > > > >
            > > > > It isn't necessary to elaborate any further on the paranoia and lack of
            > > > > understanding of the laws of the universe and laws of the land, HK
            > > > > demonstrates in his writings.
            > > > >
            > > > > CAUSE AND EFFECT
            > > > > Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action there is an equal and opposite
            > > > > reaction'. Commonly known as 'cause and effect', this principle seems to
            > > > > give credibility to the concept of 'karma'. However, in some circles of
            > > > > science [atomic], Newton's law of motion is shown to be false.
            > > > >
            > > > > In the world of the 'atom', it's been scientifically proven that the
            > > > > packets or particles of energy which comprise the atom, DO NOT follow
            > > > > the principle of cause and effect, but instead follow randomity. So at
            > > > > atomic level, the principle of 'to every action there is an equal and
            > > > > opposite reaction' is incorrect.
            > > > >
            > > > > Consequently, this makes the case for karma wrong, for 'cause and
            > > > > effect' is not the way the universe works at all at its creative core or
            > > > > spiritual principle.
            > > > >
            > > > > So why then at present, is HK so hung-up on karma, rather than on
            > > > > fostering true creativity and randomity in his followers? It is because
            > > > > instilling fear is so effective as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
            > > > > story [above] is a typical example of how HK uses auto-suggestion to
            > > > > consolidate habits of introversion in his followers. He instills in them
            > > > > fear so they become paralysed, unable even to reach out and pick up a
            > > > > button off the floor! This pattern of behaviour can only lead to mental
            > > > > illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' - downward spiral.
            > > > > [Remind you of anyone?]
            > > > >
            > > > > PS.
            > > > > To return to the original story as told by HK, it was a madman who
            > > > > explained to the HK follower, how picking up coins from the street was
            > > > > making him sick!
            > > > > Yes, truly a 'madman'...
            > > > > Postekcon
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            > > > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hello All,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
            > > > > > entire article makes me question
            > > > > > his mental acuity. Really! Something
            > > > > > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
            > > > > > basic and simple-minded for chelas
            > > > > > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
            > > > > >
            > > > > > HK: "People's states of consciousness
            > > > > > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
            > > > > > For example, any of us would likely be
            > > > > > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
            > > > > > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
            > > > > > us down in a London marketplace way
            > > > > > back in Shakespeare's time."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
            > > > > > bad the living conditions were back then
            > > > > > versus now. However, what's this about
            > > > > > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
            > > > > > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
            > > > > > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
            > > > > > to pick them up and take them to London,
            > > > > > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
            > > > > > Unknown EK Master?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
            > > > > > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
            > > > > > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
            > > > > > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
            > > > > > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
            > > > > > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
            > > > > > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
            > > > > > a superior/normal consciousness!
            > > > > > Isn't it?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
            > > > > > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
            > > > > > this time around. You need to remember
            > > > > > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
            > > > > > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
            > > > > > lead to love divine."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
            > > > > > "the baby you" remembers or did all
            > > > > > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
            > > > > > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
            > > > > > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
            > > > > > is talking down, way down, to them!
            > > > > > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
            > > > > > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
            > > > > > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
            > > > > > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
            > > > > > and that's why it's taking so long...
            > > > > > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
            > > > > > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
            > > > > > Klemp got his share and more!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
            > > > > > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
            > > > > > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
            > > > > > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
            > > > > > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
            > > > > > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
            > > > > > consciousness! Thus, this message is
            > > > > > meant to control them (HK needs the
            > > > > > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
            > > > > > out their long-standing frustrations,
            > > > > > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
            > > > > > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
            > > > > > HK needs to remind them of their place
            > > > > > as subordinates and servants within
            > > > > > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
            > > > > > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
            > > > > > Joan will be the one changing the
            > > > > > diapers!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
            > > > > > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
            > > > > > money on the ground and NOT picking
            > > > > > it up because IF you do you can get sick
            > > > > > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
            > > > > > doesn't and never did make sense to
            > > > > > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
            > > > > > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
            > > > > > money as a positive blessing. And,
            > > > > > I don't get sick after picking it up and
            > > > > > keeping it... never did before EK and
            > > > > > don't now!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
            > > > > > and negative practice (Black Magic)
            > > > > > to believe that found money is karmically
            > > > > > bad. However, this superstitious and
            > > > > > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
            > > > > > believable with most New Age ECKists
            > > > > > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
            > > > > > What spiritual Law does picking up
            > > > > > lost money violate? Klemp is never
            > > > > > too specific.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
            > > > > >
            > > > > > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
            > > > > > had been a listener until then, told a story.
            > > > > > He admitted to being a lucky person
            > > > > > who often found money in the street..."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
            > > > > > "Jen" and her depression due to her
            > > > > > mother's death and how the Mahanta
            > > > > > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
            > > > > > one of them via a miracle!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
            > > > > > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
            > > > > > and had then fallen into a deep state of
            > > > > > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
            > > > > > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
            > > > > > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
            > > > > > so long and then take credit? Why does
            > > > > > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
            > > > > > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
            > > > > > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
            > > > > > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
            > > > > > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
            > > > > > words of wisdom or via dreams with
            > > > > > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
            > > > > > make sense that the "Inner Master"
            > > > > > takes credit for giving her distractions
            > > > > > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
            > > > > > rather than resolving the issue of death
            > > > > > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
            > > > > > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
            > > > > > them given to them, after the death of
            > > > > > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
            > > > > > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
            > > > > > work, the dogs would greet her at the
            > > > > > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
            > > > > > That all changed one day. Fifi started
            > > > > > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
            > > > > > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
            > > > > > Jen took her to a vet."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
            > > > > > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
            > > > > > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
            > > > > > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
            > > > > > dog had to go through this pain because
            > > > > > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
            > > > > > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
            > > > > > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
            > > > > > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
            > > > > > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
            > > > > > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
            > > > > > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
            > > > > > a dream with her mother. After all, her
            > > > > > mother's death is what caused her suffering
            > > > > > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
            > > > > > conveniently, skips over addressing this
            > > > > > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
            > > > > > have a dream experience, with her mother,
            > > > > > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
            > > > > > depression? What happened to having
            > > > > > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
            > > > > > of consciousness do vary. Let others
            > > > > > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
            > > > > > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
            > > > > > [end]
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
            > > > > > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
            > > > > > "states of consciousness do vary"
            > > > > > sounds like another clever escape
            > > > > > clause.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
            > > > > > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
            > > > > > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
            > > > > > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
            > > > > > thus, can only do good and only takes
            > > > > > credit for the "good" things that happen!
            > > > > > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
            > > > > > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
            > > > > > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
            > > > > > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
            > > > > > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
            > > > > > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
            > > > > > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
            > > > > > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
            > > > > > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
            > > > > > money for an annual EK membership!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
            > > > > > could be used for that annual EK Membership
            > > > > > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
            > > > > > org. and would support the Mahanta's
            > > > > > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
            > > > > > one could put the found money in a slot
            > > > > > machine and take a chance on winning
            > > > > > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
            > > > > > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Prometheus
            > > > > > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
            > > > > > to contradict his own teachings found
            > > > > > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
            > > > > > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
            > > > > > insignificant and irrelevant.
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • noneckster
            A true Demonstration of Klemp s powers as LEM would be to eat something off of a Walmart parking lot, or to lick a chocolate bar off the same lot that had been
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 11, 2009
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              A true Demonstration of Klemp's powers as LEM would be to eat something off of a Walmart parking lot, or to lick a chocolate bar off the same lot that had been stepped on a lot. LOL And not get sick in any way whatsoever. LOL (No brushing of teeth or mouth wash allowed!)

              Non eckster ; )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@...> wrote:
              >
              > 'MONEY' Story, Has Only One Meaning:
              >
              > After picking up an object from the street
              > WASH YOUR HANDS
              > or it will make you sick! LOL!
              > Postekcon
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Postekcon, Back when I was an Eckist (for only two years) I always preferred Twithcell's writings. Klemp, as you say, demonstrates such a high level of stupidity, it would be laughable were it not so frightening. - Of course, back then, I did not know that Twitchell plagarized so much of his work. However, he plagarized from some fascinating stuff, and that was what I responded to. Ultimately, I could not gel the more authentic stuff with the more fantastical stuff.
              > >
              > > moby...
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Whitemoby22,
              > > > Prometheus has already commented on most of the article [see below].
              > > >
              > > > I wanted to focus on the short 'money' story, within the article, because of the serious implications it can have on the subconscious of unwitting readers. The story is also a good demonstration of the high level of stupidity contained in much of HK's writings, and is similar in effect to how many politicians operate, where a policy is not thought through!
              > > >
              > > > The HI letter is sent quarterly to HIs.
              > > > Postekcon
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "whitemoby22" <whitemoby22@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > This story about picking up money is troubling. I would love to read that article. I have access to the regular newsletter, but not to the H.I. Letter. Are the H.I. Letters sent only to HIs?
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks, Postekcon
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Picking Up Money from the Street 'Will Make You Sick'
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Excerpt, H.I. Letter 09/2009
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > > One day, he [HK follower] was sick. He felt an urge to ask God the
              > > > > > reason for his sickness, his fever.
              > > > > > In a dream, he was out walking, when he came upon some money. He bent
              > > > > > down and picked it up. Just then, a madman [aka 'inner master'] ran
              > > > > > towards him shouting, "Don't you know that it is the money you pick up
              > > > > > that makes you sick? Drop it, or you'll be sick again!"
              > > > > > The dreamer dropped the money. When he remembered the dream later, it
              > > > > > became very clear that picking up another's property was the cause of
              > > > > > his recurrent illnesses. He stopped the practice.
              > > > > > >>
              > > > > >
              > > > > > In the above story HK explains how when an individual picks up an object
              > > > > > that was once owned or handled by another person, it is 'bad karma'!
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Usually 'bad karma' is when a spiritual principle has been broken
              > > > > > [either knowingly or unknowingly].
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The followers of HK have a major dilemma here, as HK fails to clarify
              > > > > > what spiritual law they've violated should they pick up an object from
              > > > > > the street. And since HK gives them no parameters whatsoever, paranoia
              > > > > > and confusion will follow. So in trying to apply this 'new' ruling, will
              > > > > > it also mean it is 'bad karma' for them to:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > - pick a wild flower or pebble from the beach [these will always be
              > > > > > owned by someone, somewhere]
              > > > > > - touch any object that was once owned or used by another person
              > > > > > - breathe-in even, lest some of this air might contain expelled air from
              > > > > > another!
              > > > > > - and what if the object was gathered by an animal [they're recognized
              > > > > > as soul too]
              > > > > > - and is the karmic debt to the last handler of the property, or last
              > > > > > owner/s?
              > > > > > - and how do they teach their children now about 'karma' etc?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > N.B.
              > > > > > In any case, money itself is never owned, it is only a currency [method
              > > > > > of barter], a promissory 'note'.
              > > > > > Written upon the US dollar bill are these words:
              > > > > > THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
              > > > > > [perhaps the founding fathers intended to include karmic debt as well!
              > > > > > LOL]
              > > > > >
              > > > > > It isn't necessary to elaborate any further on the paranoia and lack of
              > > > > > understanding of the laws of the universe and laws of the land, HK
              > > > > > demonstrates in his writings.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > CAUSE AND EFFECT
              > > > > > Newton's Law of Motion: 'To every action there is an equal and opposite
              > > > > > reaction'. Commonly known as 'cause and effect', this principle seems to
              > > > > > give credibility to the concept of 'karma'. However, in some circles of
              > > > > > science [atomic], Newton's law of motion is shown to be false.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > In the world of the 'atom', it's been scientifically proven that the
              > > > > > packets or particles of energy which comprise the atom, DO NOT follow
              > > > > > the principle of cause and effect, but instead follow randomity. So at
              > > > > > atomic level, the principle of 'to every action there is an equal and
              > > > > > opposite reaction' is incorrect.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Consequently, this makes the case for karma wrong, for 'cause and
              > > > > > effect' is not the way the universe works at all at its creative core or
              > > > > > spiritual principle.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > So why then at present, is HK so hung-up on karma, rather than on
              > > > > > fostering true creativity and randomity in his followers? It is because
              > > > > > instilling fear is so effective as a control mechanism tool. The 'money'
              > > > > > story [above] is a typical example of how HK uses auto-suggestion to
              > > > > > consolidate habits of introversion in his followers. He instills in them
              > > > > > fear so they become paralysed, unable even to reach out and pick up a
              > > > > > button off the floor! This pattern of behaviour can only lead to mental
              > > > > > illness and abberations of 'withdrawal' - downward spiral.
              > > > > > [Remind you of anyone?]
              > > > > >
              > > > > > PS.
              > > > > > To return to the original story as told by HK, it was a madman who
              > > > > > explained to the HK follower, how picking up coins from the street was
              > > > > > making him sick!
              > > > > > Yes, truly a 'madman'...
              > > > > > Postekcon
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              > > > > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Hello All,
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > These are excerpts only. Klemp's
              > > > > > > entire article makes me question
              > > > > > > his mental acuity. Really! Something
              > > > > > > is wrong... it has to be. This is just too
              > > > > > > basic and simple-minded for chelas
              > > > > > > let alone H.I.s! [My brackets and caps]
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > HK: "People's states of consciousness
              > > > > > > rise by small steps, over many lifetimes.
              > > > > > > For example, any of us would likely be
              > > > > > > uncomfortable IF a giant's hand should
              > > > > > > pick us up and unceremoniously plop
              > > > > > > us down in a London marketplace way
              > > > > > > back in Shakespeare's time."
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > ME: Next, Klemp tells us all about how
              > > > > > > bad the living conditions were back then
              > > > > > > versus now. However, what's this about
              > > > > > > "a giant's hand?" Is this "giant" the sky
              > > > > > > God or the Mahanta (Klemp)? Do H.I.s
              > > > > > > really need the image of a "giant's hand"
              > > > > > > to pick them up and take them to London,
              > > > > > > and back in time? Is this "giant" another
              > > > > > > Unknown EK Master?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > HK: "Their level of consciousness guides
              > > > > > > their behavior. [1] BUT they are learning
              > > > > > > too, step by step, drawing even closer to
              > > > > > > ECK. Why am I giving the ABCs of spiritual
              > > > > > > unfoldment? So you Do Not forget."
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > ME: Maybe it's Klemp who is having
              > > > > > > the memory problems! ABCs? That's
              > > > > > > really too basic for those (H.I.s) with
              > > > > > > a superior/normal consciousness!
              > > > > > > Isn't it?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > HK: "Let them recall for you your own
              > > > > > > early steps toward the ECK teachings,
              > > > > > > this time around. You need to remember
              > > > > > > the `baby` you in order to be a clear channel
              > > > > > > for the Mahanta. Small, itty-bitty steps do
              > > > > > > lead to love divine."
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > ME: "This time around" I doubt that
              > > > > > > "the baby you" remembers or did all
              > > > > > > that much that matters! Do H.I.s need
              > > > > > > to be spoon fed too? I don't know what
              > > > > > > these H.I.s think, but it seems that Klemp
              > > > > > > is talking down, way down, to them!
              > > > > > > Why does Klemp want H.I.s to digress
              > > > > > > in consciousness to earlier times? Or,
              > > > > > > is he saying that it takes "itty-bitty"
              > > > > > > baby "steps" to get to that next initiation
              > > > > > > and that's why it's taking so long...
              > > > > > > the same old excuse! Darwin handed
              > > > > > > out plenty of Higher Initiations and
              > > > > > > Klemp got his share and more!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Why doesn't Klemp ever mention having
              > > > > > > empathy in order to be a `clear channel?'
              > > > > > > [Isn't being 'clear' a Scientology term?]
              > > > > > > Anyway, Klemp can't relate to having
              > > > > > > empathy. And, perhaps, many of these
              > > > > > > long-time H.I.s have surpassed him in
              > > > > > > consciousness! Thus, this message is
              > > > > > > meant to control them (HK needs the
              > > > > > > vahanas) and he's trying to smooth
              > > > > > > out their long-standing frustrations,
              > > > > > > with the RESA hierarchy, as well as,
              > > > > > > with sitting on those 7th initiations.
              > > > > > > HK needs to remind them of their place
              > > > > > > as subordinates and servants within
              > > > > > > the EK hierarchy. They will, forever,
              > > > > > > be babies needing his care. I'll bet
              > > > > > > Joan will be the one changing the
              > > > > > > diapers!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Anyway, next, Klemp has a standard
              > > > > > > Nigerian story. This one is about finding
              > > > > > > money on the ground and NOT picking
              > > > > > > it up because IF you do you can get sick
              > > > > > > due to Karmic effects. This, of course,
              > > > > > > doesn't and never did make sense to
              > > > > > > me, but I used to follow this nutty EK
              > > > > > > practice too! Silly me! Now, I see "found"
              > > > > > > money as a positive blessing. And,
              > > > > > > I don't get sick after picking it up and
              > > > > > > keeping it... never did before EK and
              > > > > > > don't now!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > In retrospect, it's a very superstitious
              > > > > > > and negative practice (Black Magic)
              > > > > > > to believe that found money is karmically
              > > > > > > bad. However, this superstitious and
              > > > > > > ritualistic belief/mindset probably sounds
              > > > > > > believable with most New Age ECKists
              > > > > > > anywhere, and not just in Nigeria!
              > > > > > > What spiritual Law does picking up
              > > > > > > lost money violate? Klemp is never
              > > > > > > too specific.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/nigeria/nigeria_religion.html
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > HK: "[2] BUT a fellow passenger, who
              > > > > > > had been a listener until then, told a story.
              > > > > > > He admitted to being a lucky person
              > > > > > > who often found money in the street..."
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > ME: Next, Klemp has a story about
              > > > > > > "Jen" and her depression due to her
              > > > > > > mother's death and how the Mahanta
              > > > > > > "gave" her two dogs, and then healed
              > > > > > > one of them via a miracle!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > HK: "`Jen' had suffered the unexpected
              > > > > > > loss of her mother Several Years Earlier
              > > > > > > and had then fallen into a deep state of
              > > > > > > depression. [3] BUT the Mahanta brought
              > > > > > > two Boston terriers, `Lady' and `Fifi,'
              > > > > > > into her life. They lifted Jen's depression."
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > ME: Why did Klemp, the Mahanta, wait
              > > > > > > so long and then take credit? Why does
              > > > > > > Klemp take credit for only "good things"
              > > > > > > in the lives of his Chelas? Why didn't
              > > > > > > Klemp (the Mahanta) heal Jen's mother?
              > > > > > > Or, better yet, why didn't the Mahanta
              > > > > > > protect/heal Jen from having depression?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > And, couldn't HK comfort Jen with his
              > > > > > > words of wisdom or via dreams with
              > > > > > > her mother, etc.? See, this doesn't
              > > > > > > make sense that the "Inner Master"
              > > > > > > takes credit for giving her distractions
              > > > > > > or substitutes for her mother (two dogs)
              > > > > > > rather than resolving the issue of death
              > > > > > > with Jen and her recently departed mother.
              > > > > > > When non-ECKists buy two dogs, or have
              > > > > > > them given to them, after the death of
              > > > > > > a mother and/or father is the Mahanta/
              > > > > > > God (Klemp) doing this as well? No!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > HK: "Every day when Jen returned from
              > > > > > > work, the dogs would greet her at the
              > > > > > > door: Fifi would bounce; Lady, wiggle.
              > > > > > > That all changed one day. Fifi started
              > > > > > > for the door as usual [4] BUT suddenly
              > > > > > > let out a horrifying howl of pain. Alarmed,
              > > > > > > Jen took her to a vet."
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > ME: Maybe Fifi found, and ate, some money
              > > > > > > while outside to potty! I wonder why she
              > > > > > > (this dog) had such Bad Karma? Maybe
              > > > > > > it was a "spiritual test" for Fifi? Nope! The
              > > > > > > dog had to go through this pain because
              > > > > > > Jen had to have a "dream" with EK Master
              > > > > > > Prajapati (the EK Master in charge of animals).
              > > > > > > Thus, Fifi was healed by Prajapati it was
              > > > > > > a "Miracle!" Apparently Fifi had a "change
              > > > > > > in consciousness." LOL! Maybe H.I.s should
              > > > > > > call upon Prajapati instead of the Mahanta
              > > > > > > (Klemp) to heal them as well!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > I'm still not sure why Jen didn't have
              > > > > > > a dream with her mother. After all, her
              > > > > > > mother's death is what caused her suffering
              > > > > > > and depression "years earlier!" Klemp,
              > > > > > > conveniently, skips over addressing this
              > > > > > > very important detail. So, why didn't Jen
              > > > > > > have a dream experience, with her mother,
              > > > > > > (or the Mahanta) that would resolve her
              > > > > > > depression? What happened to having
              > > > > > > an "inner" healing versus an outer one?
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > HK: "So it is a reminder of how states
              > > > > > > of consciousness do vary. Let others
              > > > > > > know about the ECK, and the Mahanta
              > > > > > > will do the rest, as he sees fit, step-by-step."
              > > > > > > [end]
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > ME: That "as he sees fit" sounds like
              > > > > > > a disclaimer and a Catch-22! And,
              > > > > > > "states of consciousness do vary"
              > > > > > > sounds like another clever escape
              > > > > > > clause.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Thus, when things Don't Work Out for
              > > > > > > the chela it's because the Mahanta has
              > > > > > > judged him/her to be at fault. The chela
              > > > > > > is, always, to blame. The Teflon Mahanta,
              > > > > > > thus, can only do good and only takes
              > > > > > > credit for the "good" things that happen!
              > > > > > > Unless, it's a "spiritual test" for the H.I.,
              > > > > > > however, even "hard" tests lead to higher
              > > > > > > consciousness so it's All Good... again!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > BTW- Why does a chela need the ECK
              > > > > > > "and the Mahanta" to remedy a situation?
              > > > > > > Why not just call upon the Holy Spirit?
              > > > > > > That's what I do at times! Oh, I know why
              > > > > > > ECK H.I.s don't! It's the Codependency
              > > > > > > of Needing Klemp! The ECK is Free,
              > > > > > > whereas, the Mahanta (Klemp) charges
              > > > > > > money for an annual EK membership!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Hey, I just realized that "found" money
              > > > > > > could be used for that annual EK Membership
              > > > > > > since it would be "donated" to a "non-profit"
              > > > > > > org. and would support the Mahanta's
              > > > > > > (God's) Mission around the world! Or,
              > > > > > > one could put the found money in a slot
              > > > > > > machine and take a chance on winning
              > > > > > > even more money to donate to ECKankar!
              > > > > > > Actually, EK H.I.s have done this!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Prometheus
              > > > > > > p.s. Klemp uses 4 BUTS and continues
              > > > > > > to contradict his own teachings found
              > > > > > > in another H.I. Letter. Thus, this H.I.
              > > > > > > Letter (teaching), too, must be just as
              > > > > > > insignificant and irrelevant.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
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