Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: HI books

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hello Moby, I ll try to answer your H.I. questions below. whitemoby wrote: Prometheus, I was looking through an eckankar catalogue that a friend has. Why are
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 10, 2009
      Hello Moby,
      I'll try to answer your H.I. questions
      below.

      whitemoby wrote:

      Prometheus, I was looking through
      an eckankar catalogue that a friend
      has.

      Why are there some books that are
      only for HI's?

      P- The H.I. Only Books are used
      in two ways. One way is to create
      a separation between H.I.s & Chelas
      and to instill mystery and a desire
      to become an H.I. to expand one's
      consciousness. It's another carrot
      being dangled. The other reason
      is to have books that address leadership
      issues and concerns while encouraging
      H.I.s to hang in there even though
      Klemp slowed those initiations
      down long ago. Thus, positions
      and titles have become more important
      and powerful than higher initiation
      rank.

      Why can't others order them?

      P- Well, one could have an H.I. friend
      order the H.I. Only Books in their name
      for you, or share their library of H.I.
      books with you, especially, if you
      happen to be a 4th (almost a H.I.).
      Or, if one is married to or dating a
      H.I. one could probably read those.

      What is so secret?

      P- The business side of Eckankar!
      It's like reading the chela page of
      the local EK newsletter versus the
      public page.

      Actually, from what I've read Klemp
      will sometimes say more outrageous
      things in the Mystic World or the
      Letter of Light. Remember Klemp's
      instructions to H.I.s Only in the
      12/2005 H.I. Letter where he said
      Not to use "if, and, but" with other
      H.I.s and then uses BUT (the worst
      of the three) in following EK pubs.


      Have you ever seen any of the HI books?

      P- I used to have all of them until
      I quit by letting my membership lapse.
      I, then, threw all my H.I. Books away.
      The H.I. Leadership Book and Workbook
      were interesting in that Klemp stuck
      his foot in his mouth all through
      the book. He tried to get bad (H.I.)
      behaviour under control by telling
      H.I.s to rat on others to the RESA.
      Of course, many times, the RESA
      was part of the problem since they
      couldn't or didn't want to control their
      H.I.s, or it was the crazy (Nazi) RESA
      causing the problems. In that case
      one could contact the ESC... but
      whose side or word do you think
      HK will take? Klemp was about 15
      years too late with that book because
      the damage had been done. We tried
      to tell him and begged, years earlier,
      that he write this book. However,
      most of the time many RESAs do
      what they want anyway and turn a
      blind-eye to much of what is happening
      behind their backs and the ESC's.

      Klemp, usually, never finds out when
      his guidelines aren't being followed
      since each RESA's area is run differently
      and reports to the ESC can be less
      than honest and absent of details.
      Many reports tend to omit quite
      a lot of info that the ESC would
      like to track. Intro numbers (attendance)
      are fudged, and Satsang attendance
      records are overlooked. It used to be
      that one was kicked out of the class
      if they missed three classes! Now, the
      Arahata is happy if anyone shows up...
      and extra happy if they have read
      the lesson... and ecstatic if they
      actually brought the (correct)
      discourse lesson with them!

      Also, how are RESA's chosen?

      P- By Klemp. The RESA Hierarchy
      started in 1985-87... I forget
      exactly. Some of those first ones
      are still in power as the RESA of
      that state/country. Bob Lawton
      is one of these first RESAs. After
      that the new RESAs are usually
      recommended to Klemp by the
      one stepping down. They are
      asked to make a three year
      commitment, although, their
      position is reviewed yearly as
      are the EK Board members at
      the ESC and locally. Klemp has
      the power to hire and fire anyone,
      anywhere, at anytime without
      Board permission. The RESA
      can do the same and peck those
      under them.


      Does harold have to choose them
      personally?

      P- He usually does, but everyone
      has a file on them at the ESC.
      Thus, he'll have his staff ask around
      about people, read their file, and
      take to heart the recommendation
      of the RESA stepping aside. He'll
      also interview them, ahead of time,
      if he can.

      prometheus

      thanks, moby...
    • whitemoby22
      Prometheus, thank you so much for this post. It is fascinating to hear about the org from someone who was much more inside than I ever was. You have
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 10, 2009
        Prometheus, thank you so much for this post. It is fascinating to hear about the org from someone who was much more 'inside' than I ever was. You have answered questions that I've longed wondered about.

        I take it that RESAs are NOT selected based on any "spiritual" qualification/unfoldment. They are selected because they are "company men". SO...then how are Initiations decided upon? Who gets them, and why? I have a friend who told me that she got Inititation #2 and #3 very quickly (she was working working working for eckankar in those days). She told me that she never got her #4 because she quit going to all eck activities, even tho she maintained her membership. Do you believe this?

        BTW, I would be more than happy to purchase any HI books from anybody out there willing to sell them.

        moby...



        - In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Moby,
        > I'll try to answer your H.I. questions
        > below.
        >
        > whitemoby wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus, I was looking through
        > an eckankar catalogue that a friend
        > has.
        >
        > Why are there some books that are
        > only for HI's?
        >
        > P- The H.I. Only Books are used
        > in two ways. One way is to create
        > a separation between H.I.s & Chelas
        > and to instill mystery and a desire
        > to become an H.I. to expand one's
        > consciousness. It's another carrot
        > being dangled. The other reason
        > is to have books that address leadership
        > issues and concerns while encouraging
        > H.I.s to hang in there even though
        > Klemp slowed those initiations
        > down long ago. Thus, positions
        > and titles have become more important
        > and powerful than higher initiation
        > rank.
        >
        > Why can't others order them?
        >
        > P- Well, one could have an H.I. friend
        > order the H.I. Only Books in their name
        > for you, or share their library of H.I.
        > books with you, especially, if you
        > happen to be a 4th (almost a H.I.).
        > Or, if one is married to or dating a
        > H.I. one could probably read those.
        >
        > What is so secret?
        >
        > P- The business side of Eckankar!
        > It's like reading the chela page of
        > the local EK newsletter versus the
        > public page.
        >
        > Actually, from what I've read Klemp
        > will sometimes say more outrageous
        > things in the Mystic World or the
        > Letter of Light. Remember Klemp's
        > instructions to H.I.s Only in the
        > 12/2005 H.I. Letter where he said
        > Not to use "if, and, but" with other
        > H.I.s and then uses BUT (the worst
        > of the three) in following EK pubs.
        >
        >
        > Have you ever seen any of the HI books?
        >
        > P- I used to have all of them until
        > I quit by letting my membership lapse.
        > I, then, threw all my H.I. Books away.
        > The H.I. Leadership Book and Workbook
        > were interesting in that Klemp stuck
        > his foot in his mouth all through
        > the book. He tried to get bad (H.I.)
        > behaviour under control by telling
        > H.I.s to rat on others to the RESA.
        > Of course, many times, the RESA
        > was part of the problem since they
        > couldn't or didn't want to control their
        > H.I.s, or it was the crazy (Nazi) RESA
        > causing the problems. In that case
        > one could contact the ESC... but
        > whose side or word do you think
        > HK will take? Klemp was about 15
        > years too late with that book because
        > the damage had been done. We tried
        > to tell him and begged, years earlier,
        > that he write this book. However,
        > most of the time many RESAs do
        > what they want anyway and turn a
        > blind-eye to much of what is happening
        > behind their backs and the ESC's.
        >
        > Klemp, usually, never finds out when
        > his guidelines aren't being followed
        > since each RESA's area is run differently
        > and reports to the ESC can be less
        > than honest and absent of details.
        > Many reports tend to omit quite
        > a lot of info that the ESC would
        > like to track. Intro numbers (attendance)
        > are fudged, and Satsang attendance
        > records are overlooked. It used to be
        > that one was kicked out of the class
        > if they missed three classes! Now, the
        > Arahata is happy if anyone shows up...
        > and extra happy if they have read
        > the lesson... and ecstatic if they
        > actually brought the (correct)
        > discourse lesson with them!
        >
        > Also, how are RESA's chosen?
        >
        > P- By Klemp. The RESA Hierarchy
        > started in 1985-87... I forget
        > exactly. Some of those first ones
        > are still in power as the RESA of
        > that state/country. Bob Lawton
        > is one of these first RESAs. After
        > that the new RESAs are usually
        > recommended to Klemp by the
        > one stepping down. They are
        > asked to make a three year
        > commitment, although, their
        > position is reviewed yearly as
        > are the EK Board members at
        > the ESC and locally. Klemp has
        > the power to hire and fire anyone,
        > anywhere, at anytime without
        > Board permission. The RESA
        > can do the same and peck those
        > under them.
        >
        >
        > Does harold have to choose them
        > personally?
        >
        > P- He usually does, but everyone
        > has a file on them at the ESC.
        > Thus, he'll have his staff ask around
        > about people, read their file, and
        > take to heart the recommendation
        > of the RESA stepping aside. He'll
        > also interview them, ahead of time,
        > if he can.
        >
        > prometheus
        >
        > thanks, moby...
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello whitemoby and All, I ll add my insights to the below text. BTW-I m thinking that postekcon could share some interesting info and insights as well.
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 10, 2009
          Hello whitemoby and All,
          I'll add my insights to the below
          text.

          BTW-I'm thinking that postekcon
          could share some interesting info
          and insights as well.


          whitemoby wrote:
          Prometheus, thank you so much
          for this post. It is fascinating to
          hear about the org from someone
          who was much more 'inside' than
          I ever was. You have answered
          questions that I've longed wondered
          about.

          I take it that RESAs are NOT selected
          based on any "spiritual" qualification/
          unfoldment. They are selected because
          they are "company men".

          P- Yes! It was unfortunate, although,
          understandable that these men and
          women (RESAs) were/are so strict and
          unbending. Actually, some RESAs are
          very "spiritual," of sorts, but no more
          than even some Lower and less active
          Eckists. RESAs usually have the best
          leadership skills, or they know how to
          designate and of course they have that
          "as if" Power working for them.

          I had one RESA who was very intimidating
          and anal. This person tried to "read" people's
          thoughts and get into their minds. You'd turn
          around and have them staring at you, or when
          speaking to them they would be staring at
          you strangely. They tried it on me and I saw
          them do this to others... often. Of course
          when they did this psychic technique they
          would wrinkle their brow ever so slightly,
          and definitely never smile. It was funny
          because one day I saw a person (a very low
          initiate) switch it around on them! That
          made it even funnier!

          SO...then how are Initiations decided upon?

          Who gets them, and why?

          P- Wow! Those are tough questions
          that need to be answered by more questions
          in order to determine if the Eckist is qualified
          for another initiation, especially, "High" ones.
          First, one has to be well grounded in the EK
          teachings.

          Has the person been in Satsang classes or
          been a trained Arahata? Does the person
          attend the EWS and participate (or lead) small
          and large group discussions? Does the person
          volunteer to do intros, etc.? Does the person
          hold a local position within the RESA hierarchy?
          Has the person had all of the trainings?
          Is the person current (and has always been
          current) on their EK membership? Does
          the person talk about Darwin (not so
          important now)? Does the person talk
          about psychic things or gossips or is
          negative, swears, smokes, and drinks
          alcohol? Is the candidate critical of the
          stories in EK pubs? Does the person
          talk the talk... it's all about the Mahanta's
          luv... man! Is the person known to other
          H.I.s, or is a friend of the RESA?

          Thus, the tri-monthly initiation list
          (based upon unbroken membership
          time) is generated at the ESC and is sent
          to the RESAs for their input (approval).
          If the RESAs don't know the candidate
          they will call a local H.I. contact and ask
          them questions about the candidate, or
          for a yes or no approval. If "no" the H.I.
          has to explain why. Generally, the ESC
          will accept the initiation approvals of
          the RESAs, although, I've heard of people
          being rejected or of never having their
          names sent out due to computer glitches.
          Thus, one could call the ESC and have
          a printout of when (dates) they received
          each of their previous (and current) initiations
          and have this sent to them. This way one's
          file gets updated and corrected if there
          are/were problems.

          Anyway, it's very different, now, under Klemp.
          And, it's not like he couldn't make 300 more
          7ths, and 150 more 8ths, and 15 more 9ths
          and one 12th. Maybe Joan will get her 12th
          this October, 2009.




          I have a friend who told me that she
          got Inititation #2 and #3 very quickly
          (she was working working working for
          eckankar in those days).

          She told me that she never got her #4
          because she quit going to all eck activities,
          even tho she maintained her membership.

          Do you believe this?

          P- Yes! The above criteria shows the
          hoops that Eckists, now, need to jump
          through! This is how Klemp has "slowed"
          down the initiation process. Why? Because
          he's selfish and a narcissist. He wants to
          remain the B.M.O.C. by being several levels
          above everyone else. It's all about Power,
          Control, and Ego while smiling and talking
          the talk about the Mahanta's luvvvvv!


          BTW, I would be more than happy to
          purchase any HI books from anybody
          out there willing to sell them.

          P- The Holy Fire of ECK, Book 1,
          pages 22-23, talks about The
          Contemplative Order. More EKists
          should join this Order. Klemp,
          at times, will use this "Order"
          as punishment and for reorientation.
          HK told Ford to "Contemplate upon
          the Shariyat for one year" when
          he brought up Graham's dream
          of being given the "Rod" to hold
          by a Silent One.

          moby...



          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Moby,
          > I'll try to answer your H.I. questions
          > below.
          >
          > whitemoby wrote:
          >
          > Prometheus, I was looking through
          > an eckankar catalogue that a friend
          > has.
          >
          > Why are there some books that are
          > only for HI's?
          >
          > P- The H.I. Only Books are used
          > in two ways. One way is to create
          > a separation between H.I.s & Chelas
          > and to instill mystery and a desire
          > to become an H.I. to expand one's
          > consciousness. It's another carrot
          > being dangled. The other reason
          > is to have books that address leadership
          > issues and concerns while encouraging
          > H.I.s to hang in there even though
          > Klemp slowed those initiations
          > down long ago. Thus, positions
          > and titles have become more important
          > and powerful than higher initiation
          > rank.
          >
          > Why can't others order them?
          >
          > P- Well, one could have an H.I. friend
          > order the H.I. Only Books in their name
          > for you, or share their library of H.I.
          > books with you, especially, if you
          > happen to be a 4th (almost a H.I.).
          > Or, if one is married to or dating a
          > H.I. one could probably read those.
          >
          > What is so secret?
          >
          > P- The business side of Eckankar!
          > It's like reading the chela page of
          > the local EK newsletter versus the
          > public page.
          >
          > Actually, from what I've read Klemp
          > will sometimes say more outrageous
          > things in the Mystic World or the
          > Letter of Light. Remember Klemp's
          > instructions to H.I.s Only in the
          > 12/2005 H.I. Letter where he said
          > Not to use "if, and, but" with other
          > H.I.s and then uses BUT (the worst
          > of the three) in following EK pubs.
          >
          >
          > Have you ever seen any of the HI books?
          >
          > P- I used to have all of them until
          > I quit by letting my membership lapse.
          > I, then, threw all my H.I. Books away.
          > The H.I. Leadership Book and Workbook
          > were interesting in that Klemp stuck
          > his foot in his mouth all through
          > the book. He tried to get bad (H.I.)
          > behaviour under control by telling
          > H.I.s to rat on others to the RESA.
          > Of course, many times, the RESA
          > was part of the problem since they
          > couldn't or didn't want to control their
          > H.I.s, or it was the crazy (Nazi) RESA
          > causing the problems. In that case
          > one could contact the ESC... but
          > whose side or word do you think
          > HK will take? Klemp was about 15
          > years too late with that book because
          > the damage had been done. We tried
          > to tell him and begged, years earlier,
          > that he write this book. However,
          > most of the time many RESAs do
          > what they want anyway and turn a
          > blind-eye to much of what is happening
          > behind their backs and the ESC's.
          >
          > Klemp, usually, never finds out when
          > his guidelines aren't being followed
          > since each RESA's area is run differently
          > and reports to the ESC can be less
          > than honest and absent of details.
          > Many reports tend to omit quite
          > a lot of info that the ESC would
          > like to track. Intro numbers (attendance)
          > are fudged, and Satsang attendance
          > records are overlooked. It used to be
          > that one was kicked out of the class
          > if they missed three classes! Now, the
          > Arahata is happy if anyone shows up...
          > and extra happy if they have read
          > the lesson... and ecstatic if they
          > actually brought the (correct)
          > discourse lesson with them!
          >
          > Also, how are RESA's chosen?
          >
          > P- By Klemp. The RESA Hierarchy
          > started in 1985-87... I forget
          > exactly. Some of those first ones
          > are still in power as the RESA of
          > that state/country. Bob Lawton
          > is one of these first RESAs. After
          > that the new RESAs are usually
          > recommended to Klemp by the
          > one stepping down. They are
          > asked to make a three year
          > commitment, although, their
          > position is reviewed yearly as
          > are the EK Board members at
          > the ESC and locally. Klemp has
          > the power to hire and fire anyone,
          > anywhere, at anytime without
          > Board permission. The RESA
          > can do the same and peck those
          > under them.
          >
          >
          > Does harold have to choose them
          > personally?
          >
          > P- He usually does, but everyone
          > has a file on them at the ESC.
          > Thus, he'll have his staff ask around
          > about people, read their file, and
          > take to heart the recommendation
          > of the RESA stepping aside. He'll
          > also interview them, ahead of time,
          > if he can.
          >
          > prometheus
          >
          > thanks, moby...
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.