Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

ECKists Have Trouble Connecting the (Religious) Dots

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    The Always With You story in the 09/2009 H.I. Letter shows a similar delusion that other cults promote. Most religions have a living leader and not a living
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 7, 2009
      The "Always With You" story in the
      09/2009 H.I. Letter shows a similar
      delusion that other cults promote.

      Most religions have a living leader
      and not a living God as Eckankar
      does. Really! Since the "God" of
      all other religions, according to
      Klemp, is the 4th and lower plane
      KAL then what does that make
      14th, and supposedly higher,
      plane Klemp?

      Before sharing this story from a
      22 year ECKist, and probably 5th
      initiate, let me give HK's definition
      of the Law of Facsimiles since this
      directly affects their perception:

      "The sixth law of the physical
      universe, that all effects in life
      are brought about by the thoughts
      and pictures in the mind of the
      individual."

      09/2009 The H.I. letter (pg. 4)

      Always With You --

      "I just completed Workbook for
      the Master 4 Discourses. It was
      filled with so many experiences
      and little Miracles.

      One morning I wanted to wear
      my ECK medallion, feeling I needed
      this reminder of the Master's
      Presence and Protection to help
      me cope with work--and life.
      I looked everywhere BUT couldn't
      find it.

      On my way to work, I kept my attention
      on the Master and listened to ECK
      tapes, still wondering about the
      medallion.

      A few days later, in the parking lot
      near my job, I felt overburdened by
      the day to come. As I walked to the
      booth to pay, I noticed a shining object
      on the ground. As I reached for it,
      I saw an angel on one side. When
      I flipped it over, I saw the words
      'Always with You.'

      What a direct, clear message of
      reassurance from the Mahanta:
      with or without the medallion,
      know that I am always with you.

      A few days later, Harji, as I was
      using the workbook, I listened
      to Audio Excerpt 12 and heard
      you say, "'Walk with Me, Mahanta'
      means that you have this Inner
      part of the Master with you at
      all times." You go on to talk about
      how someone in the midst of
      daily stresses may forget this.

      He thinks IF he just sings HU,
      the Mahanta will come; so the
      person sings HU and suddenly
      becomes aware of the presence
      of the Mahanta. BUT the person
      [ECKist] doesn't realize the Mahanta
      was always there. In the talk, you
      explain when we sing HU, we open
      our consciousness to recognize
      the presence of the Master. And
      then you say, 'The Inner Master
      is always with you. He is ALWAYS
      with you.'

      What Magic to hear guidance like
      this in the wake of my own recent
      experience!

      All the discourse/workbook study
      is like that.

      It's a constant dance from the Inner
      to the Outer, with no separation.
      In my twenty-two years in Eckankar,
      I have never experienced anything
      quite like this."

      --Jocelyne, Quebec, Canada

      Prometheus
      p.s. The Masters 4 Discourses is
      the last of 17 Discourses and was
      written in 1995... 14 years ago.
    • prometheus_973
      Here are my comments to HK s workbook promo. First, a review of the EK Lexicon with this law- Law of Facsimiles: The sixth law of the Physical Universe, that
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 9, 2009
        Here are my comments to HK's
        workbook promo. First, a review
        of the EK Lexicon with this law-

        "Law of Facsimiles:
        The sixth law of the Physical
        Universe, that All Effects in life
        are brought about by the Thoughts
        and Pictures in the Mind of the
        individual."

        BTW- According to ECKankar
        dogma the KAL (Satan) rules
        the Physical Universe and
        the Universal Mind Power!

        ******
        09/2009 The H.I. Letter (pg. 4)

        Always With You --

        "I just completed Workbook for
        the Master 4 Discourses. It was
        filled with so many experiences
        and little Miracles."

        ME: Lesson 3 covers the 9th
        Initiation and states that there
        are Three Stages to an Initiation
        and that the Final Stage is the
        Outer Confirmation.

        BTW- Instead of reading/believing
        in other people's subjective
        "miracles" why not believe in your
        own? Otherwise, this is a misdirection
        (KAL trap) that works via the Law
        of Facsimiles!


        "One morning I wanted to wear
        my ECK medallion [charm], feeling
        I needed this reminder of the Master's
        Presence and Protection to help
        me Cope with Work--and Life.
        I looked everywhere BUT couldn't
        find it."

        ME: Eckankar sells this copyrighted
        jewelry for the same reasons that
        other religions do. [How about those
        cleric pins too?] It's to make money
        and to make people feel better by
        wearing superstitious charms.
        Having an EK styled "reminder" of
        "protection" and "presence" is just
        another religious marketing scheme.


        "On my way to work, I kept my
        Attention on the Master and listened
        to ECK tapes, still wondering about
        the medallion [charm]."

        ME: I know of an H.I. that was playing
        a tape of one of Klemp's talks while
        driving to an EK event and had a car
        runa red light and T-Bone her! Where
        was HK's "protection?" I'm certain that
        HIRO never got printed or shared...
        and if it had Klemp would have spun
        it into another "test!"


        "A few days later, in the parking lot
        near my job, I felt overburdened by
        the day to come. As I walked to the
        booth to pay, I noticed a shining object
        on the ground. As I reached for it,
        I saw an angel on one side. When
        I flipped it over, I saw the words
        'Always with You.'"

        ME: Why did she feel "overburdened
        by the day to come," and the future?
        Eckists are to live in the present!
        Where was Klemp's (the Inner Master's)
        "protection" and, "presence?" Isn't
        Soul a "happy entity?" And, why didn't
        she just leave the "shining object"
        alone?


        "What a direct, clear message of
        reassurance from the Mahanta:
        With or Without the medallion,
        know that I am always with you."

        ME: The message "Always With
        You" was from the 4th Plane God...
        the KAL! This was the con of the
        religion that the shining object/
        charm (with the angel) was associated
        with.


        "A few days later, Harji, as I was
        using the workbook, I listened
        to Audio Excerpt 12 and heard
        you say, "'Walk with Me, Mahanta'
        means that you have this Inner
        part of the Master with you at
        all times." You go on to talk about
        how someone in the midst of
        daily stresses may forget this."

        ME: The 'Walk With Me Mahanta'
        is a hypnotic suggestion and
        a form of programming in
        order to have Eckists become
        even more reliant and codependent
        upon Klemp (the Inner Master/
        Mahanta). Self-Reliancy and Self-
        Mastery is being discouraged!


        "He [the Eckist] thinks IF he just
        sings HU, the Mahanta will come;
        so the person [Eckist] sings HU
        and suddenly becomes Aware
        [consciously] of the Presence of
        the Mahanta."

        ME: Isn't this, also, the purpose
        of those EK medallions/charms...
        with the "HU" on one side and the
        "ECK" on the other side! They are
        physical reminders... that help
        to reenforce the programming!
        Thus, Black (lower plane) Magic!


        "BUT the person [ECKist] doesn't
        realize the Mahanta was always
        there. In the talk, you explain
        when we sing HU, we open our
        consciousness to recognize
        the presence of the Master. And
        then you say, 'The Inner Master
        is always with you. He is ALWAYS
        with you.'"

        ME: Of course! This is a basic
        tenant of Klemp's Eckankar where
        he takes the place of the ECK
        and takes all credit from the ECK!
        I'm amazed that it took this H.I.
        22 years for this brain-washing
        to sink in. This was the real "miracle!"
        Klemp is known for signing off
        by saying, "I am Always With You"
        and this H.I. finally saw what he
        meant... while still clueless to
        HK's real intent... to promote
        codependency!


        "What MAGIC to hear guidance like
        this in the wake of my own recent
        experience!"

        ME: "MAGIC. The producing of
        phenomena or controlling of
        events by the use of charms
        or rituals; part of the Universal
        Mind Power, the KAL Force, it
        brings upon the practitioner
        the Effect, or Karma." [EK Lexicon,
        pg. 129]

        Actually, when people seek out
        "signs" they will find them everywhere!
        It's a, rather, common schizophrenic
        (confused/distorted) behaviour!


        "All the discourse/workbook study
        is like that.

        It's a constant Dance from the Inner
        to the Outer, with No separation.
        In my twenty-two years in Eckankar,
        I have never experienced anything
        quite like this."

        --Jocelyne, Quebec, Canada

        ME: The two fold purpose for Klemp
        having this glowing testimonial
        printed is to have H.I.s purchase
        the Workbook for the Masters 4
        Discourses... and to create/reenforce
        more codependence.

        This H.I.'s fertile imagination treated
        this "as if" it was a spiritual event.
        This is especially true for newer H.I.s
        and the more naive, as well as, those
        who still need to desperately believe
        in anything/anyone leaps and bounds
        "higher." These H.I.s have poor self
        esteem and doubts, thus, they need
        to feel special by closing their eyes
        to Truth.

        Klemp (the OUTER/INNER MAN/GOD/
        POPE) has words that (mentally and
        emotionally) soothes the self-doubts
        of his chelas (temporarily) just as other
        religions, and their leaders, do. It's
        a mind-game that they all play to
        trick the unsuspecting/trusting masses.
        Religions, and ECKankar is a Religion,
        are KAL TRAPS... and a TEST for Soul!
        When Soul Awakens and learns to stand,
        run, fly, dream, create, and exist on
        It's own, without religious crutches,
        this is the beginning phase of True
        Mastership! Soul learns from Itself
        and the Holy Spirit.

        In TRUTH... SOUL and the HOLY SPIRIT
        are/become One and is all One needs.
        It IS and Always With You. No Mahanta
        is needed! This is the Real Miracle that
        many former Eckists, and former religionists,
        have learned via experience!

        Unfortunately, some card carrying Eckists
        have had to hide this from the EK society
        due to family ties and/or job concerns at
        the ESC. They maintain their memberships
        and go through the motions and put on a
        happy face and with an "act." In truth, they
        have left Klemp and codependence behind.
        They've taken that next step in the spiritual
        evolution of Soul. Thus, they (as Soul) pick
        and choose what helps them to see, experience,
        and know Truth from various, 360 degree
        and beyond, sources without the dependence
        upon a middleman (HK). Still, it's sad that
        Eckists have to do this, but at least they're
        not alone.

        BTW- People have "fooled" the religious
        conmen for centuries. For example, in Germany
        there is a pasta dish, Maultaschen (a Swabian
        ravioli), with meat smuggled inside. This was
        started as a culinary trick used by Catholics
        to eat meat when it wasn't permitted. And,
        I know of current H.I.s that by-pass Klemp's
        "Guidelines" whenever they get the chance.
        Let's face it... Hierarchies are KAL's invention!


        Prometheus
        p.s. The Masters 4 Discourses is
        the last of 17 Discourses and was
        written in 1995... 14 years ago.
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, I thought I d bring this back for another look... also, I had this thought: Why doesn t Klemp mention the other initiations, beyond the 2nd, and the
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 10, 2009
          Hello All,
          I thought I'd bring this back
          for another look... also, I had
          this thought:

          Why doesn't Klemp mention the
          other initiations, beyond the 2nd,
          and the time and requirements for
          them in the Membership info on
          Eckankar.org? Shouldn't HK be
          more forthcoming and let these
          people know more details of
          such an important feature of
          this religion!


          Here are my comments to HK's
          workbook promo. First, a review
          of the EK Lexicon with this law-

          "Law of Facsimiles:
          The sixth law of the Physical
          Universe, that All Effects in life
          are brought about by the Thoughts
          and Pictures in the Mind of the
          individual."

          BTW- According to ECKankar
          dogma the KAL (Satan) rules
          the Physical Universe and
          the Universal Mind Power!

          ******
          09/2009 The H.I. Letter (pg. 4)

          Always With You --

          "I just completed Workbook for
          the Master 4 Discourses. It was
          filled with so many experiences
          and little Miracles."

          ME: Lesson 3 covers the 9th
          Initiation and states that there
          are Three Stages to an Initiation
          and that the Final Stage is the
          Outer Confirmation.

          BTW- Instead of reading/believing
          in other people's subjective
          "miracles" why not believe in your
          own? Otherwise, this is a misdirection
          (KAL trap) that works via the Law
          of Facsimiles!


          "One morning I wanted to wear
          my ECK medallion [charm], feeling
          I needed this reminder of the Master's
          Presence and Protection to help
          me Cope with Work--and Life.
          I looked everywhere BUT couldn't
          find it."

          ME: Eckankar sells this copyrighted
          jewelry for the same reasons that
          other religions do. [How about those
          cleric pins too?] It's to make money
          and to make people feel better by
          wearing superstitious charms.
          Having an EK styled "reminder" of
          "protection" and "presence" is just
          another religious marketing scheme.


          "On my way to work, I kept my
          Attention on the Master and listened
          to ECK tapes, still wondering about
          the medallion [charm]."

          ME: I know of an H.I. that was playing
          a tape of one of Klemp's talks while
          driving to an EK event and had a car
          runa red light and T-Bone her! Where
          was HK's "protection?" I'm certain that
          HIRO never got printed or shared...
          and if it had Klemp would have spun
          it into another "test!"


          "A few days later, in the parking lot
          near my job, I felt overburdened by
          the day to come. As I walked to the
          booth to pay, I noticed a shining object
          on the ground. As I reached for it,
          I saw an angel on one side. When
          I flipped it over, I saw the words
          'Always with You.'"

          ME: Why did she feel "overburdened
          by the day to come," and the future?
          Eckists are to live in the present!
          Where was Klemp's (the Inner Master's)
          "protection" and, "presence?" Isn't
          Soul a "happy entity?" And, why didn't
          she just leave the "shining object"
          alone?


          "What a direct, clear message of
          reassurance from the Mahanta:
          With or Without the medallion,
          know that I am always with you."

          ME: The message "Always With
          You" was from the 4th Plane God...
          the KAL! This was the con of the
          religion that the shining object/
          charm (with the angel) was associated
          with.


          "A few days later, Harji, as I was
          using the workbook, I listened
          to Audio Excerpt 12 and heard
          you say, "'Walk with Me, Mahanta'
          means that you have this Inner
          part of the Master with you at
          all times." You go on to talk about
          how someone in the midst of
          daily stresses may forget this."

          ME: The 'Walk With Me Mahanta'
          is a hypnotic suggestion and
          a form of programming in
          order to have Eckists become
          even more reliant and codependent
          upon Klemp (the Inner Master/
          Mahanta). Self-Reliancy and Self-
          Mastery is being discouraged!


          "He [the Eckist] thinks IF he just
          sings HU, the Mahanta will come;
          so the person [Eckist] sings HU
          and suddenly becomes Aware
          [consciously] of the Presence of
          the Mahanta."

          ME: Isn't this, also, the purpose
          of those EK medallions/charms...
          with the "HU" on one side and the
          "ECK" on the other side! They are
          physical reminders... that help
          to reenforce the programming!
          Thus, Black (lower plane) Magic!


          "BUT the person [ECKist] doesn't
          realize the Mahanta was always
          there. In the talk, you explain
          when we sing HU, we open our
          consciousness to recognize
          the presence of the Master. And
          then you say, 'The Inner Master
          is always with you. He is ALWAYS
          with you.'"

          ME: Of course! This is a basic
          tenant of Klemp's Eckankar where
          he takes the place of the ECK
          and takes all credit from the ECK!
          I'm amazed that it took this H.I.
          22 years for this brain-washing
          to sink in. This was the real "miracle!"
          Klemp is known for signing off
          by saying, "I am Always With You"
          and this H.I. finally saw what he
          meant... while still clueless to
          HK's real intent... to promote
          codependency!


          "What MAGIC to hear guidance like
          this in the wake of my own recent
          experience!"

          ME: "MAGIC. The producing of
          phenomena or controlling of
          events by the use of charms
          or rituals; part of the Universal
          Mind Power, the KAL Force, it
          brings upon the practitioner
          the Effect, or Karma." [EK Lexicon,
          pg. 129]

          Actually, when people seek out
          "signs" they will find them everywhere!
          It's a, rather, common schizophrenic
          (confused/distorted) behaviour!


          "All the discourse/workbook study
          is like that.

          It's a constant Dance from the Inner
          to the Outer, with No separation.
          In my twenty-two years in Eckankar,
          I have never experienced anything
          quite like this."

          --Jocelyne, Quebec, Canada

          ME: The two fold purpose for Klemp
          having this glowing testimonial
          printed is to have H.I.s purchase
          the Workbook for the Masters 4
          Discourses... and to create/reenforce
          more codependence.

          This H.I.'s fertile imagination treated
          this "as if" it was a spiritual event.
          This is especially true for newer H.I.s
          and the more naive, as well as, those
          who still need to desperately believe
          in anything/anyone leaps and bounds
          "higher." These H.I.s have poor self
          esteem and doubts, thus, they need
          to feel special by closing their eyes
          to Truth.

          Klemp (the OUTER/INNER MAN/GOD/
          POPE) has words that (mentally and
          emotionally) soothes the self-doubts
          of his chelas (temporarily) just as other
          religions, and their leaders, do. It's
          a mind-game that they all play to
          trick the unsuspecting/trusting masses.
          Religions, and ECKankar is a Religion,
          are KAL TRAPS... and a TEST for Soul!
          When Soul Awakens and learns to stand,
          run, fly, dream, create, and exist on
          It's own, without religious crutches,
          this is the beginning phase of True
          Mastership! Soul learns from Itself
          and the Holy Spirit.

          In TRUTH... SOUL and the HOLY SPIRIT
          are/become One and is all One needs.
          It IS and Always With You. No Mahanta
          is needed! This is the Real Miracle that
          many former Eckists, and former religionists,
          have learned via experience!

          Unfortunately, some card carrying Eckists
          have had to hide this from the EK society
          due to family ties and/or job concerns at
          the ESC. They maintain their memberships
          and go through the motions and put on a
          happy face and with an "act." In truth, they
          have left Klemp and codependence behind.
          They've taken that next step in the spiritual
          evolution of Soul. Thus, they (as Soul) pick
          and choose what helps them to see, experience,
          and know Truth from various, 360 degree
          and beyond, sources without the dependence
          upon a middleman (HK). Still, it's sad that
          Eckists have to do this, but at least they're
          not alone.

          BTW- People have "fooled" the religious
          conmen for centuries. For example, in Germany
          there is a pasta dish, Maultaschen (a Swabian
          ravioli), with meat smuggled inside. This was
          started as a culinary trick used by Catholics
          to eat meat when it wasn't permitted. And,
          I know of current H.I.s that by-pass Klemp's
          "Guidelines" whenever they get the chance.
          Let's face it... Hierarchies are KAL's invention!


          Prometheus
          p.s. The Masters 4 Discourses is
          the last of 17 Discourses and was
          written in 1995... 14 years ago.
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.