Re: PT's "Rebazar - Torchbearer" Ruse
- Hello Etznab,
It sounds like you're playing Devil's
advocate for Klemp. Most of what
I've mentioned is factual and provable.
I'm, also, thinking that most of your
questions are rhetorical.
Why else does Klemp mention Kirpal's
name 4 Times More than he does
Sudar's name (a former LEM). And,
Klemp mentions that Kirpal had PT's
The Tiger's Fang manuscript and that
they had a falling out.
Klemp, also, said that Twit "exaggerated"
and "twisted facts." Also, Klemp mentions
PT's age 27 (1935) when he was lying
for Who's Who in Kentucky and that
PT had never been out of Kentucky,
but claimed he had been to India.
Thus, there was no "second trip"
in 1954 to meet Rebazar.
It's like Marman pointed out about
PT's Paris, France claim where Twitch
had actually visited his sister in Paris,
Kentucky... thus, there was NO trip to
India after this visit to Paris... Kentucky.
So, what other facts need to be proved...
just connect the dots!
>That's really something. IMO. If even half of it
is true, that doesn't look good to me. However,
most of what you put forward is not what I see
coming from Eckankar.org.
>Are you saying Eckankar promotes history
that is knows isn't true? I've wondered about
this a lot myself. What is the justification for
substituting for history a myth?
>From the position of Eckankar Inc., I mean,
if it knowingly has mythologized the truth and
some of its history, what do you imagine is the
justification on the part of the organization for
>To look at it another way, say it happens in
the future that a lot of what you wrote turns up
to be proven beyond a doubt. What would be
the justification - on the part of Eckankar - if it
refused to admit it were true?
>I'm trying to get an idea how, if a lot of what
has come over the Net in the past decade is
true, that it's still not being publicly confirmed
by Eckankar Inc. as true?
>Maybe some of these things have been con-
firmed. I don't know. Has anyone here called
the main office at Eckankar and asked them
whether such things were true? I wonder what
have been the official responses. And lately.
Hello Etznab and All,
Paul Twitchell's real Master
was Kirpal Singh and not
Rebazar. Even Klemp mentions
Kirpal's name 15 times (in
the PT info on Eckankar.org)
versus Sudar's name 4 times.
Sudar Singh was another lie
and Klemp knows it! "Sudar,"
the 970th LEM, was actually
Kirpal Singh, except, he wasn't
any L "E" M, but he was a living
Master (of Ruhani Satsang).
Sawan Singh, Kirpal's Master,
died without naming a successor
and this caused a riff within
Radhasoami and caused Kirpal
to start his own sect/faction -
Ruhani Satsang. No fake Master
or "Torchbearer" was needed
because Kirpal's Mastership
was obvious to all who met
However, this was not the case
with the professional liar Twitchell
because his past and present
behaviours were tainted with
Thus, after PT fell out of Grace
with Sri Kirpal Singh, due mostly
to his exaggerations in "The Tiger's
Fang" manuscript, it was now
necessary for Twit to recreate
himself. He did this by creating
the "invisible" 500 year old EK
Master Rebazar Tarzs as the
"Torchbearer" of EK (the Holy
Spirit). PT did this in order to
pass the "Rod of EK Power" to
And, after all, who can "disprove"
an "invisible" Master! When people
claim to have seen RT in their dreams
(Law of Facsimiles) and imagine
they have seen him on the streets,
or in their bedrooms dictating lessons
this becomes their proof... even
though it's a lie! Normal people
would be seen as crazy or delusional,
but a "religious" leader can get
away with these lies and distortions
while the followers, on the other
hand, are seen as delusional fanatics
Of course, when the EK believers
or followers have their own experiences
with really convincing stories (that
have to fall within the guidelines and
rules/laws that Klemp has established
of course) they feel that they are
right on track. Those outside of the
influence of this specific religious
dogma see these ECKists as fanatical
and delusional cultists.
This is another reason as to why
Twitchell had to create a lineage
of Ancient EK Masters for further
validation of his own position.
It sounds more convincing doesn't
it, and other religions have a similar
lineage to prove their validation
as well. Thus, the Eckist has company,
while feeling special. Twit copied
everything... not just words... dogma
too! Klemp has learned his Black Magic
and deceptions from a true master
of another sort!
After all, the "Mahanta" position
wasn't created until Twit used
this title the first time in print
in the January 1, 1969 Wisdom
Notes. [Mahanta consciousness
was used one time (pg.39) in
"The Flute of God"] PT had to
position himself beyond reproach
(like the Pope) and at the very
Top due to the criticisms he was
receiving from Kirpal's U.S. followers
and competition from former
ECKist John-Rogers, as well as,
critics within Eckankar because
PT reneged on his "Five Year
Plan," in late 1968, to turn over
the EK leadership to another.
What's this all mean to ECKists
today? Well, since Rebazar was
a lie (and was a substitution for
Kirpal) it means that Twitchell
wasn't really a "Master" and,
especially, wasn't a "Mahanta!"
Thus, Darwin Gross and Harold
Klemp aren't what they have
claimed either! There are no
"ECK[ankar] Masters," except
in the imaginations of the needy
and fearful followers of this
small religious (feel good) belief
system that Klemp is recreating
to look more and more Lutheran!
Etznab wrote: Twice now in history
it happened where a "Living Master"
(for which Rebazar Tarzs was the
"Torchbearer") died without appointing
a successor (so it seems). Once when
Paul Twitchell died in September 1971.
And again when Darwin Gross died
in March of 2008. (Paul Marche was
reportedly fired from A.T.O.M. by Darwin
Gross before he died. This may, or
may not be true. I haven't verified
Shamus-i-Tabriz seems to be the only
"ECK MASTER" that is, blatantly, stolen
from another religion!
Here's a site that has info on EK Master
Shams (Rumi's Master)!
It's interesting that Klemp (and Eckankar)
claim Shams as one of their ECK Masters
when Shams followed Islam... as did Rumi.
Klemp states in his "Autobiography of
a Modern Prophet" (page 385) that ISLAM
is a 4th MENTAL Plane Religion and, thus,
the "God" they follow is actually SATAN
The one Holy Book of ECKankar, the
Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book 2 (index)
shows that the DEVIL and SATAN is
the KAL! And, according to Eckankar
KAL rules the lower worlds or planes
(i.e. Etheric, MENTAL, Causal, Astral,
PT's Shariyat, Book One, mentions that
Shams is an ECK Master.
Klemp states in his ECKankar Lexicon
that Shamus-i-Tabriz was a Mahanta
and LEM. Then, in his Autobiography
HK has Shams following SATAN or the
DEVIL (KAL) via ISLAM!
Here's a site that is using Kata Daki
to sell its wares just as Eckankar is!
Hello Etznab and All,
It seems that seeing Rebazar "before"
finding Eckankar, now, has become
more (and less) believable!
Besides, I always wondered about these
people who claimed to have seen EK
Masters before joining Eckankar. They
were "zero" initiates... why believe them!
It's interesting that many H.I.s (5-7)
haven't been "tricked" to have "seen"
Rebazar on the "inner" (or elsewhere)
even today! Yet, they, too, believe...
sort of/kind of!
BTW- EK newbies NOW have a "1" on their
membership cards (for 1st initiation) versus
the "0" zero they once had! How many years
did that take Klemp to remedy?
Plus, isn't there such a thing as
having 20/20 hindsight, or of
mistakes-in-identity? And, people
rationalize and use wishful thinking
via the use of an overactive imagination
when it comes to seeing Twitchell's
Then, there are the delusional EKies
with mental imbalances influenced by
their own self-hypnosis factors! And,
some are outright liars like Klemp!
If Christianity and other religions
have dishonest power hungry leaders,
as well as, their nut cases (fanatics, etc.),
and "miracles" then Eckankar can too!
Why can't EKists say what they feel
and just voice their opinions that these
newbies who have "seen" Rebazar prior
to Eckankar are full of crap.
Here's a site that is here, on ESA, in the LINKS:
Here's more info on the Phony EK Master,
REBAZAR TARZS, in these PDF LINKS on ESA:
[click "pdf" in the box to the left]
#Neville Goddard--"The Power of Awareness"
#Man Know Thyself--Used by PT for his
book (still used today) "Stranger By the River."
#The Origins for Some of Twitchell's Masters
Also, let's not forget "The Tiger's Fang" incident
where Twitchell substituted Rebazar's name in
place of Kirpal Singh's name after Kirpal objected
about Twitchell's "exaggerations." Klemp mentions
that Kirpal returned the Tiger's Fang manuscript
to Twitchell around June 1966. Klemp has even
pointed out these negative traits of PT's (exaggerating
and twisting facts) on Eckankar. org. When PT
was 27 years old in 1935 (born in 1908 according
to Klemp) and was trying to get into "Who's Who
in Kentucky!" How could Twit have made "a second
trip to India in 1954 where he met Rebazar" when
his "first" trip, in 1935, didn't happen because
PT had never traveled outside of the U.S. (according
And, Twitchell, also, substituted the names
of fake Masters, like Rebazar, in place of the
names of his real Masters in "The Flute of God."
p.s. As I've stated before - Klemp was burned
by the Rod of ECK Power circa 1990 and his Not
Letting Go of the Rod has caused his continued
EMF/EMR problems. HK has claimed, (his excuse)
that his health problems are caused by him becoming
the Holding Tank for the Karma of his Chelas.
However, why are Initiations still "slowed-down"
if that was true! Klemp is full of sh_t and excuses.
He has a death-grip on the Rod of EK Power!
A.R.E. cross post.
How many paths now is Rebazar Tarzs
the "Torchbearer" for?
That's three that I know of. Not saying
there aren't more that I haven't seen yet.
Twice now in history it happened where
a "Living Master" (for which Rebazar Tarzs
was the "Torchbearer") died without appointing
a successor (so it seems). Once when Paul
Twitchell died in September 1971. And again
when Darwin Gross died in March of 2008.
(Paul Marche was reportedly fired from A.T.O.M.
by Darwin Gross before he died. This may,
or may not be true. I haven't verified it yet.)
According to history I've seen, Gail Twitchell
appointed Paul Twitchell's successor (Darwin
Gross) in Oct. 1971 For the A.T.O.M. site, it
appears to show "Ancient Teachings of the
Masters LLC is wholly owned by The Darwin
Gross Trust." The Events page says "Stay tuned
for future events...."
I forgot to follow up in October last year
what A.T.O.M. did at their seminar about
a "Living Master". It looks like there isn't
a "Living Master" yet. I could be wrong.
This is all interesting history, IMO, about
Rebazar Tarzs and a number of other Masters.
How many different paths are these Masters
supporting now? How many different"Living
Hmm... Are these Masters really doing all
this? Or is it "organized religion", etc. that
is really behind it?
All valid (and important questions) in my
opinion. For the record.