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"Torchbearer" Rebazar Tarzs?

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  • etznab18
    A.R.E. cross post. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/64494d78578174b6?hl=en# ****************************************
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 28, 2009
      A.R.E. cross post.

      http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/64494d78578174b6?hl=en#

      ****************************************

      How many paths now is Rebazar Tarzs the
      "Torchbearer" for?

      Let's see.

      Eckankar

      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html

      A.T.O.M.

      http://atom.org/

      Dhunami

      http://atomdoers.org/DhunMasters.html

      That's three that I know of. Not saying
      there aren't more that I haven't seen yet.

      Twice now in history it happened where
      a "Living Master" (for which Rebazar Tarzs
      was the "Torchbearer") died without appoint-
      ing a successor (so it seems). Once when Paul
      Twitchell died in September 1971. And again
      when Darwin Gross died in March of 2008. (Paul
      Marche was reportedly fired from A.T.O.M. by
      Darwin Gross before he died. This may, or may
      not be true. I haven't verified it yet.)

      According to history I've seen, Gail
      Twitchell appointed Paul Twitchell's successor
      (Darwin Gross) in Oct. 1971 For the A.T.O.M.
      site, it appears to show "Ancient Teachings of
      the Masters LLC is wholly owned by The Darwin
      Gross Trust." The Events page says "Stay tuned
      for future
      events...."

      I forgot to follow up in October last year
      what A.T.O.M. did at their seminar about a
      "Living Master". It looks like there isn't a
      "Living Master" yet. I could be wrong.

      This is all interesting history, IMO, about
      Rebazar Tarzs and a number of other Masters.
      How many different paths are these Masters sup-
      porting now? How many different"Living Masters"?

      Hmm... Are these Masters really doing all
      this? Or is it "organized religion", etc. that
      is really behind it?

      All valid (and important questions) in my
      opinion. For the record.

      Etznab
    • etznab@aol.com
      BTW, the Torch Bearer for Michael Owens path is (reportedly) Milarepa. http://www.thewayoftruth.org/letter.htm ... From: etznab18 To:
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 28, 2009
        BTW, the "Torch Bearer for Michael Owens' path
        is (reportedly) Milarepa.

        http://www.thewayoftruth.org/letter.htm

        -----Original Message-----
        From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, Aug 28, 2009 9:45 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] "Torchbearer" Rebazar Tarzs?

         






        A.R.E. cross post.



        http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/64494d78578174b6?hl=en#



        ****************************************



        How many paths now is Rebazar Tarzs the

        "Torchbearer" for?



        Let's see.



        Eckankar



        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html



        A.T.O.M.



        http://atom.org/



        Dhunami



        http://atomdoers.org/DhunMasters.html



        That's three that I know of. Not saying

        there aren't more that I haven't seen yet.



        Twice now in history it happened where

        a "Living Master" (for which Rebazar Tarzs

        was the "Torchbearer") died without appoint-

        ing a successor (so it seems). Once when Paul

        Twitchell died in September 1971. And again

        when Darwin Gross died in March of 2008. (Paul

        Marche was reportedly fired from A.T.O.M. by

        Darwin Gross before he died. This may, or may

        not be true. I haven't verified it yet.)



        According to history I've seen, Gail

        Twitchell appointed Paul Twitchell's successor

        (Darwin Gross) in Oct.=2
        01971 For the A.T.O.M.

        site, it appears to show "Ancient Teachings of

        the Masters LLC is wholly owned by The Darwin

        Gross Trust." The Events page says "Stay tuned

        for future

        events...."



        I forgot to follow up in October last year

        what A.T.O.M. did at their seminar about a

        "Living Master". It looks like there isn't a

        "Living Master" yet. I could be wrong.



        This is all interesting history, IMO, about

        Rebazar Tarzs and a number of other Masters.

        How many different paths are these Masters sup-

        porting now? How many different"Living Masters"?



        Hmm... Are these Masters really doing all

        this? Or is it "organized religion", etc. that

        is really behind it?



        All valid (and important questions) in my

        opinion. For the record.



        Etznab
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, It seems that seeing Rebazar before finding Eckankar, now, has become more (and less) believable!
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 29, 2009
          Hello Etznab and All,
          It seems that seeing Rebazar "before"
          finding Eckankar, now, has become
          more (and less) believable!

          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html

          Besides, I always wondered about these
          people since they were "zero" initiates
          and many H.I.s (5-7) haven't "seen"
          Rebazar on the "inner" (or elsewhere)
          even today! Oops! BTW- EK newbies
          NOW have a "1" on their membership
          cards (for 1st initiation) versus the "0"
          zero they once had! How many years
          did that take Klemp to remedy?

          Plus, isn't there such a thing as
          having 20/20 hindsight, or having
          a mistake-in-identity, as well as,
          wishful thinking via the use of an
          overactive imagination? Then, there
          are the delusional thinking (mental
          imbalances) and/or the self-hypnosis
          factors! If Christianity and other
          religions can have their nut cases
          (fanatics, etc.), as well as, "miracles"
          then Eckankar can too!

          Here's a site that is, here, in the LINKS:
          http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm8.html

          Here's more info on the Phony EK Master,
          REBAZAR TARZS, in these PDF LINKS on ESA:
          [click "pdf" in the box to the left]

          #Neville Goddard--"The Power of Awareness"
          http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfAwareness

          #Man Know Thyself--Used by PT for his
          book (still used today) "Stranger By the River."
          http://www.archive.org/details/ManKnowThyself

          #The Origins for Some of Twitchell's Masters
          http://tibeto-logic.blogspot.com/2007/07/katsupari-and-living-slick-factor.html


          Also, let's not forget "The Tiger's Fang" incident
          where Twitchell substituted Rebazar's name in
          place of Kirpal Singh's name after Kirpal objected
          about Twitchell's "exaggerations." Klemp mentions
          that Kirpal returned the Tiger's Fang manuscript
          to Twitchell around June 1966. Klemp has even
          pointed out these negative traits of PT's (exaggerating
          and twisting facts) on Eckankar. org. When PT
          was 27 years old in1935 (born in 1908 according
          to Klemp) and was trying to get into "Who's Who
          in Kentucky!" How could Twit have made "a second
          trip to India in 1954 where he met Rebazar" when
          his "first" trip, in 1935, didn't happen because
          PT had never traveled outside of the U.S. (according
          to Klemp)!

          And, Twitchell, also, substituted the names
          of fake Masters, like Rebazar, in place of the
          names of his real Masters in "The Flute of God."

          http://www.archive.org/details/TheWayOfTheSaints

          Prometheus
          p.s. As I've stated before - Klemp was burned
          by the Rod of ECK Power circa 1990 and his Not
          Letting Go of the Rod has caused his continued
          EMF/EMR problems. HK has claimed, (his excuse)
          that his health problems are caused by him becoming
          the Holding Tank for the Karma of his Chelas.
          However, why are Initiations still "slowed-down"
          if that was true! Klemp is full of sh_t and excuses.
          He has a death-grip on the Rod of EK Power!

          <etznab> wrote:
          A.R.E. cross post.

          http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/64494d
          7878174b6?hl=en#

          ****************************************

          How many paths now is Rebazar Tarzs
          the "Torchbearer" for?

          Let's see.

          Eckankar

          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html

          A.T.O.M.

          http://atom.org/

          Dhunami

          http://atomdoers.org/DhunMasters.html

          That's three that I know of. Not saying
          there aren't more that I haven't seen yet.

          Twice now in history it happened where
          a "Living Master" (for which Rebazar Tarzs
          was the "Torchbearer") died without appointing
          a successor (so it seems). Once when Paul
          Twitchell died in September 1971. And again
          when Darwin Gross died in March of 2008.
          (Paul Marche was reportedly fired from A.T.O.M.
          by Darwin Gross before he died. This may,
          or may not be true. I haven't verified it yet.)

          According to history I've seen, Gail Twitchell
          appointed Paul Twitchell's successor (Darwin
          Gross) in Oct. 1971 For the A.T.O.M. site, it
          appears to show "Ancient Teachings of the
          Masters LLC is wholly owned by The Darwin
          Gross Trust." The Events page says "Stay tuned
          for future events...."

          I forgot to follow up in October last year
          what A.T.O.M. did at their seminar about
          a "Living Master". It looks like there isn't
          a "Living Master" yet. I could be wrong.

          This is all interesting history, IMO, about
          Rebazar Tarzs and a number of other Masters.
          How many different paths are these Masters
          supporting now? How many different"Living
          Masters"?

          Hmm... Are these Masters really doing all
          this? Or is it "organized religion", etc. that
          is really behind it?

          All valid (and important questions) in my
          opinion. For the record.

          Etznab
        • prometheus_973
          Here s a site that is using Kata Daki to sell its wares just as Eckankar is! http://www.ascendedmastersspeak.com/AL.htm ...
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 29, 2009
            Here's a site that is using Kata Daki
            to sell its wares just as Eckankar is!

            http://www.ascendedmastersspeak.com/AL.htm

            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > It seems that seeing Rebazar "before"
            > finding Eckankar, now, has become
            > more (and less) believable!
            >
            > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html
            >
            > Besides, I always wondered about these
            > people who claimed to have seen EK
            > Masters before joining Eckankar. They
            > were "zero" initiates... why believe them!
            > Many H.I.s (5-7) haven't "seen" Rebazar
            > on the "inner" (or elsewhere) even today!

            > BTW- EK newbies NOW have a "1" on their
            > membership cards (for 1st initiation) versus
            > the "0" zero they once had! How many years
            > did that take Klemp to remedy?
            >
            > Plus, isn't there such a thing as
            > having 20/20 hindsight, or of
            > mistakes-in-identity? And, people
            > rationalize and use wishful thinking
            > via the use of an overactive imagination
            > when it comes to seeing Twitchell's
            > fake Masters!
            >
            > Then, there are the delusional EKies
            > with mental imbalances influenced by
            > their own self-hypnosis factors! And,
            > some are outright liars like Klemp!
            > If Christianity and other religions
            > have dishonest power hungry leaders,
            > as well as, their nut cases (fanatics, etc.),
            > and "miracles" then Eckankar can too!
            > Why can't EKists say what they feel
            > and just voice their opinions that these
            > newbies who have "seen" Rebazar prior
            > to Eckankar are full of crap.
            >
            > Here's a site that is, here, in the LINKS:
            > http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm8.html
            >
            > Here's more info on the Phony EK Master,
            > REBAZAR TARZS, in these PDF LINKS on ESA:
            > [click "pdf" in the box to the left]
            >
            > #Neville Goddard--"The Power of Awareness"
            > http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfAwareness
            >
            > #Man Know Thyself--Used by PT for his
            > book (still used today) "Stranger By the River."
            > http://www.archive.org/details/ManKnowThyself
            >
            > #The Origins for Some of Twitchell's Masters
            > http://tibeto-logic.blogspot.com/2007/07/katsupari-and-living-slick-factor.html
            >
            >
            > Also, let's not forget "The Tiger's Fang" incident
            > where Twitchell substituted Rebazar's name in
            > place of Kirpal Singh's name after Kirpal objected
            > about Twitchell's "exaggerations." Klemp mentions
            > that Kirpal returned the Tiger's Fang manuscript
            > to Twitchell around June 1966. Klemp has even
            > pointed out these negative traits of PT's (exaggerating
            > and twisting facts) on Eckankar. org. When PT
            > was 27 years old in1935 (born in 1908 according
            > to Klemp) and was trying to get into "Who's Who
            > in Kentucky!" How could Twit have made "a second
            > trip to India in 1954 where he met Rebazar" when
            > his "first" trip, in 1935, didn't happen because
            > PT had never traveled outside of the U.S. (according
            > to Klemp)!
            >
            > And, Twitchell, also, substituted the names
            > of fake Masters, like Rebazar, in place of the
            > names of his real Masters in "The Flute of God."
            >
            > http://www.archive.org/details/TheWayOfTheSaints
            >
            > Prometheus
            > p.s. As I've stated before - Klemp was burned
            > by the Rod of ECK Power circa 1990 and his Not
            > Letting Go of the Rod has caused his continued
            > EMF/EMR problems. HK has claimed, (his excuse)
            > that his health problems are caused by him becoming
            > the Holding Tank for the Karma of his Chelas.
            > However, why are Initiations still "slowed-down"
            > if that was true! Klemp is full of sh_t and excuses.
            > He has a death-grip on the Rod of EK Power!
            >
            > <etznab> wrote:
            > A.R.E. cross post.
            >
            http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/64494d7878174b6?hl=en#
            >
            > ****************************************
            >
            > How many paths now is Rebazar Tarzs
            > the "Torchbearer" for?
            >
            > Let's see.
            >
            > Eckankar
            >
            > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html
            >
            > A.T.O.M.
            >
            > http://atom.org/
            >
            > Dhunami
            >
            > http://atomdoers.org/DhunMasters.html
            >
            > That's three that I know of. Not saying
            > there aren't more that I haven't seen yet.
            >
            > Twice now in history it happened where
            > a "Living Master" (for which Rebazar Tarzs
            > was the "Torchbearer") died without appointing
            > a successor (so it seems). Once when Paul
            > Twitchell died in September 1971. And again
            > when Darwin Gross died in March of 2008.
            > (Paul Marche was reportedly fired from A.T.O.M.
            > by Darwin Gross before he died. This may,
            > or may not be true. I haven't verified it yet.)
            >
            > According to history I've seen, Gail Twitchell
            > appointed Paul Twitchell's successor (Darwin
            > Gross) in Oct. 1971 For the A.T.O.M. site, it
            > appears to show "Ancient Teachings of the
            > Masters LLC is wholly owned by The Darwin
            > Gross Trust." The Events page says "Stay tuned
            > for future events...."
            >
            > I forgot to follow up in October last year
            > what A.T.O.M. did at their seminar about
            > a "Living Master". It looks like there isn't
            > a "Living Master" yet. I could be wrong.
            >
            > This is all interesting history, IMO, about
            > Rebazar Tarzs and a number of other Masters.
            > How many different paths are these Masters
            > supporting now? How many different"Living
            > Masters"?
            >
            > Hmm... Are these Masters really doing all
            > this? Or is it "organized religion", etc. that
            > is really behind it?
            >
            > All valid (and important questions) in my
            > opinion. For the record.
            >
            > Etznab
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Shamus-i-Tabriz seems to be the only ECK MASTER that is, blatantly, stolen from another religion! Here s a site that has info on EK Master Shams (Rumi s
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 30, 2009
              Shamus-i-Tabriz seems to be the only
              "ECK MASTER" that is, blatantly, stolen
              from another religion!

              Here's a site that has info on EK Master
              Shams (Rumi's Master)!

              http://www.shamsitabriz.net/shamsitabriz.html

              It's interesting that Klemp (and Eckankar)
              claim Shams as one of their ECK Masters
              when Shams followed Islam... as did Rumi.

              Klemp states in his "Autobiography of
              a Modern Prophet" (page 385) that ISLAM
              is a 4th MENTAL Plane Religion and, thus,
              the "God" they follow is actually SATAN
              (KAL)!

              The one Holy Book of ECKankar, the
              Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book 2 (index)
              shows that The KAL is, ALSO, the DEVIL
              and/or SATAN. And, he rules the lower
              worlds or planes (i.e. Etheric, MENTAL,
              Causal, Astral, and Physical).

              PT's Shariyat, Book One, mentions that
              Shams is an ECK Master.

              Klemp states in his ECKankar Lexicon
              that Shamus-i-Tabriz was a Mahanta
              and LEM. Then, in his Autobiography
              HK has Shams following SATAN or the
              DEVIL (KAL) via ISLAM!


              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Here's a site that is using Kata Daki
              > to sell its wares just as Eckankar is!
              >
              http://www.ascendedmastersspeak.com/AL.htm
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Etznab and All,
              > > It seems that seeing Rebazar "before"
              > > finding Eckankar, now, has become
              > > more (and less) believable!
              > >
              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html
              > >
              > > Besides, I always wondered about these
              > > people who claimed to have seen EK
              > > Masters before joining Eckankar. They
              > > were "zero" initiates... why believe them!
              > > Many H.I.s (5-7) haven't "seen" Rebazar
              > > on the "inner" (or elsewhere) even today!
              >
              > > BTW- EK newbies NOW have a "1" on their
              > > membership cards (for 1st initiation) versus
              > > the "0" zero they once had! How many years
              > > did that take Klemp to remedy?
              > >
              > > Plus, isn't there such a thing as
              > > having 20/20 hindsight, or of
              > > mistakes-in-identity? And, people
              > > rationalize and use wishful thinking
              > > via the use of an overactive imagination
              > > when it comes to seeing Twitchell's
              > > fake Masters!
              > >
              > > Then, there are the delusional EKies
              > > with mental imbalances influenced by
              > > their own self-hypnosis factors! And,
              > > some are outright liars like Klemp!
              > > If Christianity and other religions
              > > have dishonest power hungry leaders,
              > > as well as, their nut cases (fanatics, etc.),
              > > and "miracles" then Eckankar can too!
              > > Why can't EKists say what they feel
              > > and just voice their opinions that these
              > > newbies who have "seen" Rebazar prior
              > > to Eckankar are full of crap.
              > >
              Here's a site that is here, on ESA, in the LINKS:
              http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm8.html
              > >
              > > Here's more info on the Phony EK Master,
              > > REBAZAR TARZS, in these PDF LINKS on ESA:
              > > [click "pdf" in the box to the left]
              > >
              #Neville Goddard--"The Power of Awareness"
              http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfAwareness
              > >
              #Man Know Thyself--Used by PT for his
              book (still used today) "Stranger By the River."
              http://www.archive.org/details/ManKnowThyself
              > >
              #The Origins for Some of Twitchell's Masters
              http://tibeto-logic.blogspot.com/2007/07/katsupari-and-living-slick-factor.html
              > >
              > >
              > > Also, let's not forget "The Tiger's Fang" incident
              > > where Twitchell substituted Rebazar's name in
              > > place of Kirpal Singh's name after Kirpal objected
              > > about Twitchell's "exaggerations." Klemp mentions
              > > that Kirpal returned the Tiger's Fang manuscript
              > > to Twitchell around June 1966. Klemp has even
              > > pointed out these negative traits of PT's (exaggerating
              > > and twisting facts) on Eckankar. org. When PT
              > > was 27 years old in1935 (born in 1908 according
              > > to Klemp) and was trying to get into "Who's Who
              > > in Kentucky!" How could Twit have made "a second
              > > trip to India in 1954 where he met Rebazar" when
              > > his "first" trip, in 1935, didn't happen because
              > > PT had never traveled outside of the U.S. (according
              > > to Klemp)!
              > >
              > > And, Twitchell, also, substituted the names
              > > of fake Masters, like Rebazar, in place of the
              > > names of his real Masters in "The Flute of God."
              > >
              http://www.archive.org/details/TheWayOfTheSaints
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > > p.s. As I've stated before - Klemp was burned
              > > by the Rod of ECK Power circa 1990 and his Not
              > > Letting Go of the Rod has caused his continued
              > > EMF/EMR problems. HK has claimed, (his excuse)
              > > that his health problems are caused by him becoming
              > > the Holding Tank for the Karma of his Chelas.
              > > However, why are Initiations still "slowed-down"
              > > if that was true! Klemp is full of sh_t and excuses.
              > > He has a death-grip on the Rod of EK Power!
              > >
              > > <etznab> wrote:
              > > A.R.E. cross post.
              > >
              > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/64494d7878174b6?hl=en#
              > >
              ****************************************
              > >
              > > How many paths now is Rebazar Tarzs
              > > the "Torchbearer" for?
              > >
              > > Let's see.
              > >
              > > Eckankar
              > >
              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html
              > >
              > > A.T.O.M.
              > >
              http://atom.org/
              > >
              > > Dhunami
              > >
              http://atomdoers.org/DhunMasters.html
              > >
              > > That's three that I know of. Not saying
              > > there aren't more that I haven't seen yet.
              > >
              > > Twice now in history it happened where
              > > a "Living Master" (for which Rebazar Tarzs
              > > was the "Torchbearer") died without appointing
              > > a successor (so it seems). Once when Paul
              > > Twitchell died in September 1971. And again
              > > when Darwin Gross died in March of 2008.
              > > (Paul Marche was reportedly fired from A.T.O.M.
              > > by Darwin Gross before he died. This may,
              > > or may not be true. I haven't verified it yet.)
              > >
              > > According to history I've seen, Gail Twitchell
              > > appointed Paul Twitchell's successor (Darwin
              > > Gross) in Oct. 1971 For the A.T.O.M. site, it
              > > appears to show "Ancient Teachings of the
              > > Masters LLC is wholly owned by The Darwin
              > > Gross Trust." The Events page says "Stay tuned
              > > for future events...."
              > >
              > > I forgot to follow up in October last year
              > > what A.T.O.M. did at their seminar about
              > > a "Living Master". It looks like there isn't
              > > a "Living Master" yet. I could be wrong.
              > >
              > > This is all interesting history, IMO, about
              > > Rebazar Tarzs and a number of other Masters.
              > > How many different paths are these Masters
              > > supporting now? How many different"Living
              > > Masters"?
              > >
              > > Hmm... Are these Masters really doing all
              > > this? Or is it "organized religion", etc. that
              > > is really behind it?
              > >
              > > All valid (and important questions) in my
              > > opinion. For the record.
              > >
              > > Etznab
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab and All, Paul Twitchell s real Master was Kirpal Singh and not Rebazar. Even Klemp mentions Kirpal s name 15 times (in the PT info on
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 31, 2009
                Hello Etznab and All,
                Paul Twitchell's real Master
                was Kirpal Singh and not
                Rebazar. Even Klemp mentions
                Kirpal's name 15 times (in
                the PT info on Eckankar.org)
                versus Sudar's name 4 times.
                Sudar Singh was another lie
                and Klemp knows it! "Sudar,"
                the 970th LEM, was actually
                Kirpal Singh, except, he wasn't
                any L "E" M, but he was a living
                Master (of Ruhani Satsang).

                Sawan Singh, Kirpal's Master,
                died without naming a successor
                and this caused a riff within
                Radhasoami and caused Kirpal
                to start his own sect/faction -
                Ruhani Satsang. No fake Master
                or "Torchbearer" was needed
                because Kirpal's Mastership
                was obvious to all who met
                him.

                However, this was not the case
                with the professional liar Twitchell
                because his past and present
                behaviours were tainted with
                on-going deceptions.

                Thus, after PT fell out of Grace
                with Sri Kirpal Singh, due mostly
                to his exaggerations in "The Tiger's
                Fang" manuscript, it was now
                necessary for Twit to recreate
                himself. He did this by creating
                the "invisible" 500 year old EK
                Master Rebazar Tarzs as the
                "Torchbearer" of EK (the Holy
                Spirit). PT did this in order to
                pass the "Rod of EK Power" to
                himself!

                And, after all, who can "disprove"
                an "invisible" Master! When people
                claim to have seen RT in their dreams
                (Law of Facsimiles) and imagine
                they have seen him on the streets,
                or in their bedrooms dictating lessons
                this becomes their proof... even
                though it's a lie! Normal people
                would be seen as crazy or delusional,
                but a "religious" leader can get
                away with these lies and distortions
                while the followers, on the other
                hand, are seen as delusional fanatics
                and zealots.

                Of course, when the EK believers
                or followers have their own experiences
                with really convincing stories (that
                have to fall within the guidelines and
                rules/laws that Klemp has established
                of course) they feel that they are
                right on track. Those outside of the
                influence of this specific religious
                dogma see these ECKists as fanatical
                and delusional cultists.

                This is another reason as to why
                Twitchell had to create a lineage
                of Ancient EK Masters for further
                validation of his own position.
                It sounds more convincing doesn't
                it, and other religions have a similar
                lineage to prove their validation
                as well. Thus, the Eckist has company,
                while feeling special. Twit copied
                everything... not just words... dogma
                too! Klemp has learned his Black Magic
                and deceptions from a true master
                of another sort!

                After all, the "Mahanta" position
                wasn't created until Twit used
                this title the first time in print
                in the January 1, 1969 Wisdom
                Notes. [Mahanta consciousness
                was used one time (pg.39) in
                "The Flute of God"] PT had to
                position himself beyond reproach
                (like the Pope) and at the very
                Top due to the criticisms he was
                receiving from Kirpal's U.S. followers
                and competition from former
                ECKist John-Rogers, as well as,
                critics within Eckankar because
                PT reneged on his "Five Year
                Plan," in late 1968, to turn over
                the EK leadership to another.

                What's this all mean to ECKists
                today? Well, since Rebazar was
                a lie (and was a substitution for
                Kirpal) it means that Twitchell
                wasn't really a "Master" and,
                especially, wasn't a "Mahanta!"

                Thus, Darwin Gross and Harold
                Klemp aren't what they have
                claimed either! There are no
                "ECK[ankar] Masters," except
                in the imaginations of the needy
                and fearful followers of this
                small religious (feel good) belief
                system that Klemp is recreating
                to look more and more Lutheran!

                Prometheus

                Etznab wrote: Twice now in history
                it happened where a "Living Master"
                (for which Rebazar Tarzs was the
                "Torchbearer") died without appointing
                a successor (so it seems). Once when
                Paul Twitchell died in September 1971.
                And again when Darwin Gross died
                in March of 2008. (Paul Marche was
                reportedly fired from A.T.O.M. by Darwin
                Gross before he died. This may, or
                may not be true. I haven't verified
                it yet.)

                prometheus wrote:

                Shamus-i-Tabriz seems to be the only
                "ECK MASTER" that is, blatantly, stolen
                from another religion!

                Here's a site that has info on EK Master
                Shams (Rumi's Master)!

                http://www.shamsitabriz.net/shamsitabriz.html

                It's interesting that Klemp (and Eckankar)
                claim Shams as one of their ECK Masters
                when Shams followed Islam... as did Rumi.

                Klemp states in his "Autobiography of
                a Modern Prophet" (page 385) that ISLAM
                is a 4th MENTAL Plane Religion and, thus,
                the "God" they follow is actually SATAN
                (KAL)!

                The one Holy Book of ECKankar, the
                Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book 2 (index)
                shows that the DEVIL and SATAN is
                the KAL! And, according to Eckankar
                KAL rules the lower worlds or planes
                (i.e. Etheric, MENTAL, Causal, Astral,
                and Physical).

                PT's Shariyat, Book One, mentions that
                Shams is an ECK Master.

                Klemp states in his ECKankar Lexicon
                that Shamus-i-Tabriz was a Mahanta
                and LEM. Then, in his Autobiography
                HK has Shams following SATAN or the
                DEVIL (KAL) via ISLAM!


                prometheus wrote:

                Here's a site that is using Kata Daki
                to sell its wares just as Eckankar is!

                http://www.ascendedmastersspeak.com/AL.htm

                prometheus wrote:

                Hello Etznab and All,
                It seems that seeing Rebazar "before"
                finding Eckankar, now, has become
                more (and less) believable!

                http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html

                Besides, I always wondered about these
                people who claimed to have seen EK
                Masters before joining Eckankar. They
                were "zero" initiates... why believe them!

                It's interesting that many H.I.s (5-7)
                haven't been "tricked" to have "seen"
                Rebazar on the "inner" (or elsewhere)
                even today! Yet, they, too, believe...
                sort of/kind of!

                BTW- EK newbies NOW have a "1" on their
                membership cards (for 1st initiation) versus
                the "0" zero they once had! How many years
                did that take Klemp to remedy?

                Plus, isn't there such a thing as
                having 20/20 hindsight, or of
                mistakes-in-identity? And, people
                rationalize and use wishful thinking
                via the use of an overactive imagination
                when it comes to seeing Twitchell's
                fake Masters!

                Then, there are the delusional EKies
                with mental imbalances influenced by
                their own self-hypnosis factors! And,
                some are outright liars like Klemp!
                If Christianity and other religions
                have dishonest power hungry leaders,
                as well as, their nut cases (fanatics, etc.),
                and "miracles" then Eckankar can too!
                Why can't EKists say what they feel
                and just voice their opinions that these
                newbies who have "seen" Rebazar prior
                to Eckankar are full of crap.

                Here's a site that is here, on ESA, in the LINKS:
                http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm8.html

                Here's more info on the Phony EK Master,
                REBAZAR TARZS, in these PDF LINKS on ESA:
                [click "pdf" in the box to the left]

                #Neville Goddard--"The Power of Awareness"
                http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfAwareness

                #Man Know Thyself--Used by PT for his
                book (still used today) "Stranger By the River."
                http://www.archive.org/details/ManKnowThyself

                #The Origins for Some of Twitchell's Masters
                http://tibeto-logic.blogspot.com/2007/07/katsupari-and-living-slick-factor.html

                Also, let's not forget "The Tiger's Fang" incident
                where Twitchell substituted Rebazar's name in
                place of Kirpal Singh's name after Kirpal objected
                about Twitchell's "exaggerations." Klemp mentions
                that Kirpal returned the Tiger's Fang manuscript
                to Twitchell around June 1966. Klemp has even
                pointed out these negative traits of PT's (exaggerating
                and twisting facts) on Eckankar. org. When PT
                was 27 years old in 1935 (born in 1908 according
                to Klemp) and was trying to get into "Who's Who
                in Kentucky!" How could Twit have made "a second
                trip to India in 1954 where he met Rebazar" when
                his "first" trip, in 1935, didn't happen because
                PT had never traveled outside of the U.S. (according
                to Klemp)!

                And, Twitchell, also, substituted the names
                of fake Masters, like Rebazar, in place of the
                names of his real Masters in "The Flute of God."

                http://www.archive.org/details/TheWayOfTheSaints

                Prometheus
                p.s. As I've stated before - Klemp was burned
                by the Rod of ECK Power circa 1990 and his Not
                Letting Go of the Rod has caused his continued
                EMF/EMR problems. HK has claimed, (his excuse)
                that his health problems are caused by him becoming
                the Holding Tank for the Karma of his Chelas.
                However, why are Initiations still "slowed-down"
                if that was true! Klemp is full of sh_t and excuses.
                He has a death-grip on the Rod of EK Power!

                <etznab> wrote:
                A.R.E. cross post.

                http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/
                64494d7878174b6?hl=en#

                ****************************************

                How many paths now is Rebazar Tarzs
                the "Torchbearer" for?

                Let's see.

                Eckankar

                http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html

                A.T.O.M.

                http://atom.org/

                Dhunami

                http://atomdoers.org/DhunMasters.html

                That's three that I know of. Not saying
                there aren't more that I haven't seen yet.

                Twice now in history it happened where
                a "Living Master" (for which Rebazar Tarzs
                was the "Torchbearer") died without appointing
                a successor (so it seems). Once when Paul
                Twitchell died in September 1971. And again
                when Darwin Gross died in March of 2008.
                (Paul Marche was reportedly fired from A.T.O.M.
                by Darwin Gross before he died. This may,
                or may not be true. I haven't verified it yet.)

                According to history I've seen, Gail Twitchell
                appointed Paul Twitchell's successor (Darwin
                Gross) in Oct. 1971 For the A.T.O.M. site, it
                appears to show "Ancient Teachings of the
                Masters LLC is wholly owned by The Darwin
                Gross Trust." The Events page says "Stay tuned
                for future events...."

                I forgot to follow up in October last year
                what A.T.O.M. did at their seminar about
                a "Living Master". It looks like there isn't
                a "Living Master" yet. I could be wrong.

                This is all interesting history, IMO, about
                Rebazar Tarzs and a number of other Masters.
                How many different paths are these Masters
                supporting now? How many different"Living
                Masters"?

                Hmm... Are these Masters really doing all
                this? Or is it "organized religion", etc. that
                is really behind it?

                All valid (and important questions) in my
                opinion. For the record.

                Etznab
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