Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Was Klemp in Japan or just fantasyland?

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    This is a revised cross-post from the eckankartruth yahoo group site. Hello All, It is hard to know if Twit told the whole truth about much of anything. Mostly
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 24, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      This is a revised cross-post from
      the eckankartruth yahoo group site.

      Hello All,
      It is hard to know if Twit told the whole truth
      about much of anything. Mostly it was half-
      truths. I do think that he was in the Navy
      and an officer during and after WWII since
      he wrote for a Navy pub. Was he in combat?
      No, I doubt that he was. In his book "Difficulties
      of Becoming the LEM" PT states that he was
      trying to get out of duty by screwing up his
      paperwork, etc. Actually, PT was sabotaging
      the Navy's effectiveness during wartime!

      I do believe that Klemp was in the Air Force
      and stationed at Yokota A.B. Japan around
      1966-67, and that he was doing radio voice
      intercepts (cryptologics) and listening in on
      the Russian advisors in Vietnam. Some flew
      on C-130s. The irony is that Klemp was a
      "listener," or eavesdropper, when he's stated
      in the past that he was more a talker than
      a listener!

      Anyway, these USAFSS people refer to themselves
      as "Bats." Thus, HK's given too many details,
      over the years, not to believe this account.
      I even found a site that verifies some info
      of his claims. Of course, this doesn't mean
      he tells the truth about much else... especially
      Twitchell's con of being the "Inner Master!"

      http://www.6901st.org/history/history.htm

      I'll have to check out "The Wind of Change"
      and some other books to see where HK was
      stationed before Yokota. He joined the USAF
      in Jan. 1965 and had a 9 month radio tech
      school with Russian language college courses
      in Indiana. Klemp joined Eckankar while
      stationed at Yokota in 1967. And, HK was
      at Ft. Meade when he came back to the states
      prior to discharge.

      Prometheus


      harrison wrote:

      I really think there is NOTHING that
      we should take as truth from klemp or
      eckankar. We have no idea at all that
      the guy was even in Japan or any place
      else. There are so many lies that it's
      easier not to believe anything. Remember
      that story about Paul seeing his father
      on a boat in the war? Then it turns out
      that twitchell was never in the war?
      There's all kinds of contradictions in the
      make-em-up fantasyland of eckankar.


      Sharon <brighttigress> wrote:

      Hi Everyone!

      [snip]

      Prometheus, thanks for cross-posting,
      and I like the way you re-wrote that
      one and added the "but" stuff! I hope
      that everyone here is also reading
      everything at both ESA and "X".

      Anyway, everyone goes thru stages.
      Right now there are newbies joining
      ekult and feeling that special magic
      we probably all felt at first. And yes,
      although Twitch said to question & doubt,
      I remember he *also* wrote that the
      greatest doubters often became the
      "strongest" eckists. Of *course* if you
      start doing those self-hypnotic spex,
      you're going to have "experiences" -
      if you don't they tell you to just work
      harder, or perhaps you're getting it
      "on the inner" and just don't remember,
      etc. Gawd, once you wake up, get out,
      and learn how that cultic mind-control
      & programing works, it's really amazing!

      On the one hand, we might feel like
      idiots for falling for it. On the other
      hand, damn it really worked, and it
      worked well!! Which reminds me,
      does anyone else know where "The
      Cult Test" is nowadays? I was checking
      my links not long ago, that one's not
      good anymore, I searched a bit but
      couldn't find it, got distracted elsewhere.

      Anyway, it was originally in Omni
      magazine, and it shows how easily
      just about *anyone* can get caught.

      It's been so long for me that I tend to
      forget just how bad it was when I first
      left. And I mean *really* bad!! Pretty
      traumatic, and it actually took quite
      a long time to really "recover" and
      become "normal" again. I worked hard
      at de-programming myself, by going
      back over the "teachings" and looking
      at them without those blue-fogged
      lenses. I got a lot of help from reading
      "anti-cult" sites, both "educational"
      ones and sites by former members
      of other cults. I was amazed to learn
      there were so many of them, a lot
      of them were ekult-clones too!
      And no matter what kind of cult it
      is, they're all the same basically.
      And I had the help and support of
      so many others.

      So some people might be able to
      just quit without many problems,
      it's different for everyone, but I'd
      say even if you think it's no big deal,
      there may be little after-effects you
      don't even notice. I think you need
      to sort of "go with the flow" whatever
      you're experiencing, one thing I think
      everyone needs to do is learn who
      their "real Self" is. of course maybe
      that's what we all do in life anyway -
      we're all works in progress, but after
      you leave a cult, I think you need
      to really look at yourself a bit more,
      find yourself, and while you're at it,
      decide what/who *you* want to be,
      and remake & refind yourself accordingly.
      And I hope that makes sense! Be
      objective & observant, think & question
      *everything*, even your own subjectiveness.

      And don't hesitate to try to get
      professional help, or write to me
      or any other former members you
      see online who "resonates", if you're
      not comfortable about posting publicly.
      Don't know about everyone else, but
      I remember I got so used to that "the
      master is always with you" nonsense
      over the years, it was a bit strange
      after I kicked him out & slammed the
      door firmly, I felt a bit lost & floundering.

      Laughing here, I think a good example
      is how "X" progressed from that pic of
      a chained elephant to a tiger!! YES!!


      Oh, another thought - on Klemp.
      At first I tried to make excuses for
      him. Then I felt a lot of contempt
      and disgust, which I still do. Hey,
      if I ever have the opportunity I just
      might spit on him, but I don't know.
      On the other hand - there but for
      the grace of "Whatever" goes any
      of us. He didn't have much going
      on for him when he was young,
      he was lost and wimpy and powerless.
      Actually, he *still* is! <gg>

      But - he was far away in Japan,
      homesick, saw an ad for "soul travel"
      (was it in Fate?), and kaboom,
      he got caught in Twitch's web.
      Pretty pitiful, isn't it? Ekult is the
      only thing he had or has going for
      him. Otherwise, he was a big "nothing",
      a failure - and he probably would still
      be. Not much different from Twitch,
      actually, except Twitch was a bullshit
      artist early on. So, in a way I feel
      sorry for Klemp, because he's the
      best example of what can happen
      to someone who might otherwise
      be just an average boring "nice guy".

      Instead, ekult has brought out the
      worst in him. And it's something
      I think we've all seen in many eckists,
      a lot of them who are "successful" -
      nasty, controlling HIs with no consciences,
      very into power, and sure as heck
      not the least bit "spiritual"!!!

      [snip]

      Life is good, and so much richer,
      truer, and clearer than in was when
      I was in ekult - there's absolutely *no*
      comparison! Of course, there are still
      ups & down and life's unpleasant "kabooms",
      but it's *all* just plain good, better than
      when I was a true blue eckist, there's
      just no comparison, now it's all *real*!
      Really, it's like coming indoors in a cold
      day and your glasses are fogged - that's
      ekult.

      Okay, I know I'm not the only one here
      who's not as young as they used to
      be, but right now I'm laughing, nope
      it's not always pleasant but on the other
      hand, there are so many things to be
      thankful for! And being out of ekult
      is just about the biggest, and makes
      everything else so much better!

      Hugs,

      Sharon
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, I ve put together some more information gathered together on Klemp s earlier daze. Enjoy! Klemp was in the Air Force and stationed at Yokota A.B.
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 26, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello All,
        I've put together some more information
        gathered together on Klemp's earlier
        daze. Enjoy!

        Klemp was in the Air Force and stationed
        at Yokota A.B. Japan around 1966-67
        He was doing radio intercepts of the
        Russian advisors in Vietnam. HK joined
        Eckankar and received discourses via mail
        while stationed at Yokota in 1967.


        This, below, site verifies some info of HK's
        assignments and training. It's very interesting
        to read about electronic eavesdropping aka
        cryptologistics (spying) prior to, during, and
        after the Vietnam Era, and it continues ALL
        AROUND THE WORLD! It's rather ironic that
        Klemp once said that he was more a "talker"
        than a "listener" when he was trained as a
        "listener" while in the USAFSS!

        http://www.6901st.org/history/history.htm


        I was reading pages 11-14 in "Child in
        the Wilderness" and saw where HK is
        mentioning his sophomore year in college
        on page 11 (1962) and on page 13, three
        years later (1965), that he was a senior at
        another college. This was when he was in
        the Air Force and was attending classes in
        Russian language at Indiana U. I don't see
        that he was a senior there, unless, he transferred
        his credits and they accepted all of them!
        Also, these Russian language courses couldn't
        count toward graduation because of his major.
        I don't think HK ever graduated from college,
        but he could probably get an "honorary" degree
        (somewhere) for writing so many crappy books!

        BTW - I remember reading where he said he
        had to quite college (probably around Fall
        quarter of 1964) and joined the Air Force (late
        1964, Nov-Dec) or be drafted. Thus, HK was
        23 (or 24) when he started his four year (active)
        enlistment.

        Any guess at to what month HK was born in?
        How about January?

        Here's another link that's interesting.
        I'll bet some of these people met HK
        while at Yokota:

        http://home.earthlink.net/~swojtkiewicz/203Locator/guestbk99.html

        I found out that this was Goodfellow
        AFB San Angelo, TX. and probably the
        6954th Training Squadron for the Radio
        Operations part of his training.

        HK then went to the 6989SS at Misawa AS,
        Japan (for 6 months) then reassigned to the
        6988SS at Yokota AB then to the states at
        the 6970SG at Ft. Meade, MD. It doesn't
        seem like he flew on any C-130s or did
        any TDY (temporary duty) in Nam or else
        he would have mentioned it somewhere.

        ***
        "The leader of the Eckankar movement is
        Harold Klemp, who was born in 1942 and
        grew up on a Wisconsin farm."

        http://www.eckankar.org/Temple/startrib_article.html
        ***

        First, his parent's farm was located in the
        Fremont, WI. area and he followed his cousin
        to a Lutheran pre-ministerial high school/seminary
        at age 14 (1956) and this school was located
        in the Milwaukee area. He graduated in 1960.

        Klemp joined the USAF in late 1964 (Nov.-Dec.)
        and had 6 weeks of Basic Training at Lackland
        AFB in Texas.

        However, in early 1965 he was still at Lackland
        awaiting the next quarter (Spring) of Russian
        language classes to start at Indiana U. This was
        a 9 month school. After completion of this school
        he was assigned to a 3 month Radio school at
        Goodfellow AFB - San Angelo, TX. 6954th Security
        Squadron. After completion of a total of 1 year
        of schooling Klemp was sent to Misawa A.B. Japan
        in early 1966 (March-April) for a 2 year overseas
        assignment with the 6989th USAFSS. Then after
        approximately 6 months Klemp was reassigned
        to the 6988th USAFSS at Yokota A.B. Japan to
        serve the remaining 2 years of his assignment.
        Thus, HK left Yokota A.B., Japan in March or April
        of 1968. He was then reassigned to the 6970th SG
        at Ft. Meade, MD. to serve out his remaining 4 year
        enlistment and was discharged in the Winter (Nov.-
        Dec) of 1968, and went back to live/work on the
        family farm at the age of 27 or 28 years old.

        This is an approximation, of course, since Klemp
        is vague about certain facts and details, but I'm
        fairly certain about this info and the time-lines
        seem to be very close!

        Prometheus


        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > This is a revised cross-post from
        > the eckankartruth yahoo group site.
        >
        > Hello All,
        > It is hard to know if Twit told the whole truth
        > about much of anything. Mostly it was half-
        > truths. I do think that he was in the Navy
        > and an officer during and after WWII since
        > he wrote for a Navy pub. Was he in combat?
        > No, I doubt that he was. In his book "Difficulties
        > of Becoming the LEM" PT states that he was
        > trying to get out of duty by screwing up his
        > paperwork, etc. Actually, PT was sabotaging
        > the Navy's effectiveness during wartime!
        >
        > I do believe that Klemp was in the Air Force
        > and stationed at Yokota A.B. Japan around
        > 1966-67, and that he was doing radio voice
        > intercepts (cryptologics) and listening in on
        > the Russian advisors in Vietnam. Some flew
        > on C-130s. The irony is that Klemp was a
        > "listener," or eavesdropper, when he's stated
        > in the past that he was more a talker than
        > a listener!
        >
        > Anyway, these USAFSS people refer to themselves
        > as "Bats." Thus, HK's given too many details,
        > over the years, not to believe this account.
        > I even found a site that verifies some info
        > of his claims. Of course, this doesn't mean
        > he tells the truth about much else... especially
        > Twitchell's con of being the "Inner Master!"
        >
        > http://www.6901st.org/history/history.htm
        >
        > I'll have to check out "The Wind of Change"
        > and some other books to see where HK was
        > stationed before Yokota. He joined the USAF
        > in Nov-Dec 1964 but didn't get into school
        > until March-April 1965 and had 9 months
        > of college classes with the Russian language
        > at Indiana U. He then went to Texas for 3 months
        > of Radio operations. Klemp joined Eckankar while
        > stationed at Yokota in 1967. And, HK was at
        > Ft. Meade, MD. when he came back to the states
        > prior to discharge.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > harrison wrote:
        >
        > I really think there is NOTHING that
        > we should take as truth from klemp or
        > eckankar. We have no idea at all that
        > the guy was even in Japan or any place
        > else. There are so many lies that it's
        > easier not to believe anything. Remember
        > that story about Paul seeing his father
        > on a boat in the war? Then it turns out
        > that twitchell was never in the war?
        > There's all kinds of contradictions in the
        > make-em-up fantasyland of eckankar.
        >
        >
        > Sharon <brighttigress> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Everyone!
        >
        > [snip]
        >
        > Prometheus, thanks for cross-posting,
        > and I like the way you re-wrote that
        > one and added the "but" stuff! I hope
        > that everyone here is also reading
        > everything at both ESA and "X".
        >
        > Anyway, everyone goes thru stages.
        > Right now there are newbies joining
        > ekult and feeling that special magic
        > we probably all felt at first. And yes,
        > although Twitch said to question & doubt,
        > I remember he *also* wrote that the
        > greatest doubters often became the
        > "strongest" eckists. Of *course* if you
        > start doing those self-hypnotic spex,
        > you're going to have "experiences" -
        > if you don't they tell you to just work
        > harder, or perhaps you're getting it
        > "on the inner" and just don't remember,
        > etc. Gawd, once you wake up, get out,
        > and learn how that cultic mind-control
        > & programing works, it's really amazing!
        >
        > On the one hand, we might feel like
        > idiots for falling for it. On the other
        > hand, damn it really worked, and it
        > worked well!! Which reminds me,
        > does anyone else know where "The
        > Cult Test" is nowadays? I was checking
        > my links not long ago, that one's not
        > good anymore, I searched a bit but
        > couldn't find it, got distracted elsewhere.
        >
        > Anyway, it was originally in Omni
        > magazine, and it shows how easily
        > just about *anyone* can get caught.
        >
        > It's been so long for me that I tend to
        > forget just how bad it was when I first
        > left. And I mean *really* bad!! Pretty
        > traumatic, and it actually took quite
        > a long time to really "recover" and
        > become "normal" again. I worked hard
        > at de-programming myself, by going
        > back over the "teachings" and looking
        > at them without those blue-fogged
        > lenses. I got a lot of help from reading
        > "anti-cult" sites, both "educational"
        > ones and sites by former members
        > of other cults. I was amazed to learn
        > there were so many of them, a lot
        > of them were ekult-clones too!
        > And no matter what kind of cult it
        > is, they're all the same basically.
        > And I had the help and support of
        > so many others.
        >
        > So some people might be able to
        > just quit without many problems,
        > it's different for everyone, but I'd
        > say even if you think it's no big deal,
        > there may be little after-effects you
        > don't even notice. I think you need
        > to sort of "go with the flow" whatever
        > you're experiencing, one thing I think
        > everyone needs to do is learn who
        > their "real Self" is. of course maybe
        > that's what we all do in life anyway -
        > we're all works in progress, but after
        > you leave a cult, I think you need
        > to really look at yourself a bit more,
        > find yourself, and while you're at it,
        > decide what/who *you* want to be,
        > and remake & refind yourself accordingly.
        > And I hope that makes sense! Be
        > objective & observant, think & question
        > *everything*, even your own subjectiveness.
        >
        > And don't hesitate to try to get
        > professional help, or write to me
        > or any other former members you
        > see online who "resonates", if you're
        > not comfortable about posting publicly.
        > Don't know about everyone else, but
        > I remember I got so used to that "the
        > master is always with you" nonsense
        > over the years, it was a bit strange
        > after I kicked him out & slammed the
        > door firmly, I felt a bit lost & floundering.
        >
        > Laughing here, I think a good example
        > is how "X" progressed from that pic of
        > a chained elephant to a tiger!! YES!!
        >
        >
        > Oh, another thought - on Klemp.
        > At first I tried to make excuses for
        > him. Then I felt a lot of contempt
        > and disgust, which I still do. Hey,
        > if I ever have the opportunity I just
        > might spit on him, but I don't know.
        > On the other hand - there but for
        > the grace of "Whatever" goes any
        > of us. He didn't have much going
        > on for him when he was young,
        > he was lost and wimpy and powerless.
        > Actually, he *still* is! <gg>
        >
        > But - he was far away in Japan,
        > homesick, saw an ad for "soul travel"
        > (was it in Fate?), and kaboom,
        > he got caught in Twitch's web.
        > Pretty pitiful, isn't it? Ekult is the
        > only thing he had or has going for
        > him. Otherwise, he was a big "nothing",
        > a failure - and he probably would still
        > be. Not much different from Twitch,
        > actually, except Twitch was a bullshit
        > artist early on. So, in a way I feel
        > sorry for Klemp, because he's the
        > best example of what can happen
        > to someone who might otherwise
        > be just an average boring "nice guy".
        >
        > Instead, ekult has brought out the
        > worst in him. And it's something
        > I think we've all seen in many eckists,
        > a lot of them who are "successful" -
        > nasty, controlling HIs with no consciences,
        > very into power, and sure as heck
        > not the least bit "spiritual"!!!
        >
        > [snip]
        >
        > Life is good, and so much richer,
        > truer, and clearer than in was when
        > I was in ekult - there's absolutely *no*
        > comparison! Of course, there are still
        > ups & down and life's unpleasant "kabooms",
        > but it's *all* just plain good, better than
        > when I was a true blue eckist, there's
        > just no comparison, now it's all *real*!
        > Really, it's like coming indoors in a cold
        > day and your glasses are fogged - that's
        > ekult.
        >
        > Okay, I know I'm not the only one here
        > who's not as young as they used to
        > be, but right now I'm laughing, nope
        > it's not always pleasant but on the other
        > hand, there are so many things to be
        > thankful for! And being out of ekult
        > is just about the biggest, and makes
        > everything else so much better!
        >
        > Hugs,
        >
        > Sharon
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.