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belief

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  • jjamie1977
    many say that eck is crap and it is no matter if eck highers believe it or not. i say, it matters some to me. tho eck is crap no matter what they believe
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 7, 2005
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      many say that eck is crap and it is no matter if eck highers believe it
      or not. i say, it matters some to me. tho eck is crap no matter
      what they believe about it, there is, for me, a significant difference
      between a group who sells crap they truly believe, and a group who
      fully understands they are selling crap but want the membership and
      numbers and money.

      jamie...
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Jamie, I agree with you, and I m comfortable to say that when a person s belief system is crap, per se, is when that created belief harms people. Many
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 8, 2005
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        Hi Jamie,
        I agree with you, and I'm comfortable to say that when a person's
        belief system is crap, per se, is when that created belief harms
        people. Many people believe in G.W. Bush and his policies too and
        this is crap! Yes, Twitchell, L. Ron Hubbard, John Rogers Hinkle,
        etc., etc., were/are con-men and their created vocations are traps
        that snare the innocent, the gullible, and the sincere seeker. The
        higher ups in these organizations, such as Klemp and company, know
        that Twitchell created a scam and that he, and his successors,
        were/are not those all powerful and all knowing spiritual masters
        titled "Mahanta."

        Do most Eckists believe that what they are selling is crap? Of
        course not! They what to believe in it because they are getting other
        returns than mere money. Many (not all) love to feed those egos by
        being looked up to as a speaker and volunteer or by being a RESA or
        ESA or the president of their Satsang Society or as a Staff member
        at the ESC or on the "Board." Others have their own currency for
        their beliefs.

        For Klemp and his inner circle there is a combination of rewards
        which make it impossible for them to be truthful of what they really
        know about the invalidity of the Eck teachings. They are making lots
        of money (with great fringe benefits and perks), they have
        prestigious positions (and nice offices), and they feel that they
        are doing good and giving people what they need (versus want). One
        way to rationalize this, perhaps, is that membership in Eckankar is
        a test... by being a more sophisticated spiritual test for Soul
        (still, a Kal trap). One must becomes aware of not only this trap,
        but of all who promote a need for a "master" or "saviour" (other
        than ones Self). When one does this then they can become free from
        other chains that bind one to these illusions. However, "teachings"
        are still needed, and our life events, the insight from others, and
        being able to listen for direction from SPIRIT (our own insights)
        are some of these teachings we always have available to us.

        Those who start and inherit the scams know the truth, but they need
        the true believers to make it all believable to the others. And, it
        is all kept alive by the delusional or well meant and misunderstood
        testimonials of others. These people have bought into the dogma of
        the scam and think outside of themselves. They give their power as
        Soul to others who are perceived to be "higher" and more worthy.
        Shame, guilt, and doubt keep them in their place as they surrender
        and submit to the influence of the con. Klemp has said, 'The only
        difference between you and me is I give myself to the ECK utterly.'
        (Utter Understanding, page 4, The H.I. Letter, Sept 2005) This
        cannot be true because Klemp has lied about Twitchell and the scam,
        and this cannot be true because of his words used to describe that
        Temporary Postal Clerk in the Sept 2003 H.I. Letter. But, why can't
        others give to SPIRIT (Eck) completely ('utterly'), or was the
        former farmboy thinking of "udderly" instead?

        Prometheus

        jamie wrote:
        > many say that eck is crap and it is no matter if eck highers
        believe it or not. i say, it matters some to me. tho eck is crap no
        matter what they believe about it, there is, for me, a significant
        difference between a group who sells crap they truly believe, and a
        group who fully understands they are selling crap but want the
        membership and numbers and money.
      • jjamie1977
        ... other ... or ... really ... lots ... is ... However, teachings ... and ... need ... it ... misunderstood ... utterly. ... scam, ... can t ...
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 9, 2005
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          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
          > Hi Jamie,
          > I agree with you, and I'm comfortable to say that when a person's
          > belief system is crap, per se, is when that created belief harms
          > people. Many people believe in G.W. Bush and his policies too and
          > this is crap! Yes, Twitchell, L. Ron Hubbard, John Rogers Hinkle,
          > etc., etc., were/are con-men and their created vocations are traps
          > that snare the innocent, the gullible, and the sincere seeker. The
          > higher ups in these organizations, such as Klemp and company, know
          > that Twitchell created a scam and that he, and his successors,
          > were/are not those all powerful and all knowing spiritual masters
          > titled "Mahanta."
          >
          > Do most Eckists believe that what they are selling is crap? Of
          > course not! They what to believe in it because they are getting
          other
          > returns than mere money. Many (not all) love to feed those egos by
          > being looked up to as a speaker and volunteer or by being a RESA
          or
          > ESA or the president of their Satsang Society or as a Staff member
          > at the ESC or on the "Board." Others have their own currency for
          > their beliefs.
          >
          > For Klemp and his inner circle there is a combination of rewards
          > which make it impossible for them to be truthful of what they
          really
          > know about the invalidity of the Eck teachings. They are making
          lots
          > of money (with great fringe benefits and perks), they have
          > prestigious positions (and nice offices), and they feel that they
          > are doing good and giving people what they need (versus want). One
          > way to rationalize this, perhaps, is that membership in Eckankar
          is
          > a test... by being a more sophisticated spiritual test for Soul
          > (still, a Kal trap). One must becomes aware of not only this trap,
          > but of all who promote a need for a "master" or "saviour" (other
          > than ones Self). When one does this then they can become free from
          > other chains that bind one to these illusions.
          However, "teachings"
          > are still needed, and our life events, the insight from others,
          and
          > being able to listen for direction from SPIRIT (our own insights)
          > are some of these teachings we always have available to us.
          >
          > Those who start and inherit the scams know the truth, but they
          need
          > the true believers to make it all believable to the others. And,
          it
          > is all kept alive by the delusional or well meant and
          misunderstood
          > testimonials of others. These people have bought into the dogma of
          > the scam and think outside of themselves. They give their power as
          > Soul to others who are perceived to be "higher" and more worthy.
          > Shame, guilt, and doubt keep them in their place as they surrender
          > and submit to the influence of the con. Klemp has said, 'The only
          > difference between you and me is I give myself to the ECK
          utterly.'
          > (Utter Understanding, page 4, The H.I. Letter, Sept 2005) This
          > cannot be true because Klemp has lied about Twitchell and the
          scam,
          > and this cannot be true because of his words used to describe that
          > Temporary Postal Clerk in the Sept 2003 H.I. Letter. But, why
          can't
          > others give to SPIRIT (Eck) completely ('utterly'), or was the
          > former farmboy thinking of "udderly" instead?
          >
          > Prometheus
          --------------------------------------------------------

          prometheus, i have enjoyed this post a great deal, just as i enjoy
          much of what u have to say. and, of course, i agree with what u say
          here. ur letter has prompted a few thoughts of my own, which i will
          mentally organize and post later. thanks for the thoughtful reply,
          jamie.
          ---------------------------------
          >


          > >
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