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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Kirpal's Problems With Twitchell's "The Tiger's Fang"

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  • etznab@aol.com
    I have a curiosity related to this subject. It has to do with when Rebazar Tarzs first appears to start dictating to Paul Twitchell. I haven t seen the
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 7 7:33 PM
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      I have a curiosity related to this subject.

      It has to do with when Rebazar Tarzs first
      "appears" to start dictating to Paul Twitchell.

      I haven't seen the original Dialogues With
      The Master (began 1956?) and the Tiger's
      Fang (began 1957?) manuscripts so I can't
      prove whether Rebazar Tarzs' name was in
      them instead of Kirpal Singh, or someone
      else. However, written history shows that it
      was shortly after meeting Gail that Rebazar
      Tarzs "started" to appear. I don't know if this
      is when it actually "started", or whether the
      history is saying this is when The Far Country
      book (dialogue? discourse? dictation?) started.

      Here are some references I am basing my
      knowledge on:

      "Paul [Paul Twitchell] wrote Dialogues With
      The Master around 1956, from the references
      I have seen, but didn't publish it until 1970.
      Paul also wrote The Flute of God in 1959, but
      didn't put it into print until 1966, in the Orion
      Magazine series. This pattern is similar to
      Paul's writing of The Far Country in 1963,
      which wasn't published until 1970."

      [Based on: Doug Marman, Dialogue in the
      Age of Criticism, Chap. 6]

      "[....] 'It was while traveling with Sudar Singh
      in the Nuri Sarup that I met Rebazar Tarzs,'
      Paulji reminded me, 'and it was in the company
      of Rebazar Tarzs that I returned to a study of the
      Far Country. Later, with Gail and her spiritual guide,
      Dr. John Leland, I came to know Rebazar Tar
      zs
      better, and I began to leave my physical body at
      night to meet with him at his mud and brick hut in
      the Himalayas. It was a series of twelve important
      dialogues with Rebazar Tarzs which produced my
      manuscript The Far Country.'* [*Published in 1970.]
      [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN
      0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?),
      p. 121]

      Here it suggests dialogues and Paul going to
      Rebazar Tarzs' hut in the Himalayas. In another
      place, though, it looks like the history is saying
      that Rebazar Tarzs came to Paul and "dictated"
      the book.

      "[....] Since this first meeting [summer 1951] with
      Rebazar Tarzs it has been proved many times over,
      especially when he appeared nightly for a period to
      dictate a full manuscript called 'The Far Country', a
      whole discourse on ECKANKAR, in my apartment
      in San Francisco [Summer? Fall? 1964] while his
      body was lying on a crude bed in a hut high in the
      Hindu Kush mountains. [....]"

      [Based on: ECKANKAR, Compiled Writings Volume
      1, Paul Twitchell - Copyright 1975 by Gail T. Gross,
      p. 35]

      The word dictated appears again (earlier) here.

      "[....] Among my numerous discourses from many
      gurus in the flesh and those on the inner planes are
      those taken down when Sudar Singh appeared in my
      apartment in New York City in his light body, although
      his flesh self was six thousand miles away in India.
      This is also true of Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibeta
      n monk,
      who appears quite frequently in my home. Last fall
      [Summer 1964?] he dictated a book-length manuscript
      called 'The Far Country.' [....]" [Based on: ECKANKAR,
      Compiled Writings Volume 1, Paul Twitchell (Copyright
      1975 by Gail T. Gross), p. 12]

      BTW, apparently Kirpal Singh had some of the same
      ability as attributed to Paul Twitchell's "Eck Masters.

      "Kirpal Singh who is still at his own ashram in India,
      has the ability to appear to his own people, in his Nuri
      Sarup body, no matter where they may be. A skill which
      almost anybody can learn who gets the knack of bilocat-
      ion. Among my numerous discourses from many gurus
      in the flesh and those on the inner planes, are those
      taken down when Kirpal Singh appeared in my apartment
      in Washington, D.C., in his light body, although his flesh
      self was six-thousand miles away in India."

      That quote was courtesy of David Lane @

      http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html

      Apparently that was an earlier version of an article
      that was later changed and Sudar Singh came to re-
      place the name Kirpal Singh. (Note: check web site,
      and source, for clarity.)

      If Rebazar Tarzs' name didn't appear in the original
      Dialogues With The Master or The Tiger's Fang manu-
      scripts, would that make The Far Country the earliest
      Eckankar book dictated to Paul by Rebazar Tarzs? I
      am curious about this. Also, who in God's name was
      Dr. John Leland?

      Etznab
      0D
      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 5:02 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Kirpal's Problems With
      Twitchell's "The Tiger's Fang"

       






      This is from the research of David Lane

      and the documentation and testimonials

      that he uncovered. Doug Marman confirms

      and validates all of the following researched

      information in Chapter 2 (et al) of Dialogues.



      I believe that someone, here on ESA, mentioned

      wanting to see some "facts" concerning this

      disagreement between Paul and Kirpal. Here

      it is!



      *******************************************



      Postscript: The Last Letter



      "I have never recognized you as a master,

      or that you give initiations, and that your

      work is not in the best interest of spirituality.

      Your teachings are orthodox, and as a preacher

      you are not capable of assisting anyone spiritually."

      --Paul Twitchell, 1971 (Personal letter to

      Kirpal Singh of Delhi, India) [7]



      "My Saints are Kabir. . . Rumi, Hafiz, Shamusi-

      Tabriz ...and Kirpal Singh of India." --

      Paul Twitchell, 1964 [8]



      "Master Kirpal Singh spoke briefly of these

      masters when he took me through the several

      invisible worlds in 1957." --Paul Twitchell,

      1964 [9]



      "Kirpal Singh who is still living in his=2
      0own

      ashram in India, has the ability to appear

      to his own people, in his Nuri Sarup body,

      no matter where they might be." --Paul

      Twitchell, 1965 [10]



      "I have studied under many teacher [sic].

      I have so far had seven, some outstanding

      ones, including Sri Kirpal Singh, of Delhi,

      India." --Paul Twitchell, 1966 [11]



      As Paul Twitchell edited out the name

      Kirpal Singh in every rewrite he undertook,

      his cover-up grew by the late 1960's to

      such proportions that he even denied he

      was once initiated by Kirpal Singh. To

      many who knew him earlier, Twitchell

      had gone too far. Several, if not many,

      disciples of Kirpal Singh had attended

      satsangs with him; some had even been

      present at his initiation ceremony in 1955.



      Yet, Twitchell persisted: he continued to

      deny that he had any spiritual link with

      Kirpal Singh. He even went so far as to

      openly refute on tape that Kirpal Singh

      was the successor to Sawan Singh of

      Radhasoami Satsang Beas (who died

      in 1948), though it contradicted what

      he had stated previously in 1965.

      Claimed Twitchell:



      "Guru Nanak became the founder of

      the Sikh order. Sawan Singh was the

      last of the Swami group of Masters. . .

      and Kirpal Singh claimed to become

      a follower in the same line of masters,

      and also Charan Singh who was a=2
      0nephew

      [sic: Charan Singh is a grandson] of Sawan

      Singh, but neither one are masters because

      the mastership of this line stopped at

      Sawan Singh." [12]



      [7] Dorothe Ross, "All That Glistens is Not Gold,"

      Leadership in Eck (July-August-September, 1976).

      [8] Paul Twitchell, "The Cliff Hanger," Psychic

      Observer, op. cit.

      [9] Paul Twitchell, "The God Eaters," Psychic

      Observer, op cit.

      [10] Paul Twitchell, "Can You Be In Two Places

      At The Same Time," Search (September 1965),

      page 22.

      [11] Paul Twitchell, "The Flute of God," Orion

      Magazine (March-April 1966), page 32.

      [12] Bernadine Burlin, personal letter to the

      author, dated April 5, 1977.



      Yet only five years previously, Twitchell wrote:



      "These few who are following the ancient

      science do so loosely. However, Kirpal Singh,

      a living Guru, teaches the art (as) closely to

      the ancient teachings (as) possible, at his

      ashram in Old Delhi, India."



      "The art of exteriorization was revived by

      Kabir, the Hindu mystic-poet in the sixteenth

      century and passed through a succession

      of savants, by secret initiation until Sawan

      Singh openly started giving initiation to anyone

      who came to his ashram. When he passed

      his spiritual mantle to Kirpal Singh, the

      instructions were to carry out this policy."

      [13]



      The inherent contradictions=2
      0in Twitchell's

      denial of his association with Kirpal Singh

      were too blatant for some Ruhani Satsang

      initiates to ignore. Several knowledgeable

      disciples began to give out the actual details

      of Twitchell's involvement with Kirpal Singh.

      Even the Ruhani Satsang Master himself

      commented on Twitchell's unusual actions:



      "Yes, Yes. Too much propaganda. I tell you

      one American was initiated by me--I've got

      the initiation report in his own handwriting.

      That is what such-like people will do. They

      had some little thing, got stuck fast there.

      Now he's carrying on propaganda. He says

      he was never initiated by me. He was initiated

      in 1955. Some people get stuck fast on the

      way. This little ego is very difficult to get rid

      of unless there's some kind of protection.

      This is a living example. He has written other

      books. I need not mention his name. " [14]



      [13] Paul Twitchell, "Ancient Science of

      Eckankar," publisher unknown (May 1965).

      [14] Kirpal Singh, Heart To Heart Talks,

      Volume One, page 53.



      It is unclear howTwitchell finally heard

      of Kirpal Singh's comments about him.

      Nevertheless, by whichever means he

      heard (through tape, letter, or word of

      mouth), the fact remains that Twitchell

      was highly displeased. The reason why

      is obvious: if word got out that Paul had

      indeed been initiated by Kirpa
      l Singh but

      was denying it, it would imply that the

      founder of Eckankar was lying; and a

      master who would lie (or deceive or

      cover-up) is to many spiritual seekers

      no master at all.



      Prometheus: See! Integrity and ethics

      are valued by most people!



      Thus, in a strange but predictable maneuver,

      Twitchell sent a letter bombasting Kirpal

      Singh, denying that he was initiated by him,

      and threatening--totally without legal basis--

      a lawsuit if Kirpal Singh pressed the matter

      any further.



      Around the time that Kirpal Singh received

      the portending letter from the founder of

      Eckankar, Paul Twitchell died unexpectedly

      from a heart attack. [15] It was a curious turn

      of events, for Twitchell departed only months

      after claiming that he would live at least another

      five years--if not fifteen.



      P- This was Karma! I guess he wasn't

      above "it" after all. And, it's why Twit

      hadn't chosen a successor! Gail came

      to the rescue with her so-called "dream"

      of convenience.



      [15] A copy of the letter that Paul Twitchell

      sent to Kirpal Singh shortly before his death

      is still in the possession of Gail Atkinson.



      According to several Ruhani Satsang initiates

      who were present in India when Twitchell's

      letter was received at Sawan Ashram, Kirpal

      Singh made the following comment: "We20are

      all born with a large noose around our neck.

      He hasn't much rope left." Shortly thereafter

      Twitchell died.



      http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html



      http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/lane_live/lane_masters.html



      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab and All, I have trouble believing any speculations by an EK apologist like Marman, or someone like Steiger who generally wrote about UFOs,
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 8 9:17 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Etznab and All,
        I have trouble believing any speculations
        by an EK apologist like Marman, or someone
        like Steiger who generally wrote about UFOs,
        Bigfoot, etc. Besides, we all know that Paul
        spoon fed Steiger anything and everything.
        It was all about PR and Steiger didn't care
        about the Truth and states that he never
        verified anything coming from Twit's mouth.

        Klemp has said that Twit 'exaggerated' and
        'twisted facts.' I, also, wouldn't believe a word
        coming out of the mouths of Patti and Gail
        since they have endorsed Marman's distortion
        and corruption of "The Whole Truth." It seems
        they are trying to save face, or are rationalizing
        about their roles and involvement with Twit's
        scam. IMO-They are attempting to show
        themselves in a good light for the sake of
        history. I doubt that they have a guilty conscience,
        or else they wouldn't be endorsing Marman's
        fraud.

        I, also, don't believe that Twit worked on
        "The Tiger's Fang" from 1957-1967. Twit
        never took that much time writing/plagiarizing
        both of his Shariyats! Remember, too, Klemp
        states on Eckankar.org that Kirpal sent PT's
        Tiger's Fang manuscript back to him around
        June 1966. Thus, after this is when Twit edited
        out Kirpal's name and replaced it with RT's.
        Therefore, "The Tiger's Fang" wasn't finally
        printed until 1967 since 1967 is the copyright
        date.

        Marman, in the link below, gives David Lane
        credit for much of his research into Paul, but
        then puts his own spin of speculation and
        opinion on some of these details.

        However, I can see why, even, Marman has
        stated (on FJ's Truth-Seeker) that the existence
        of EK Master Rebazar Tarzs is a Myth. It's very
        obvious that Kirpal Singh is the "Master" Twit
        was originally writing about. Their disagreement
        about Paul's exaggerations in The Tiger's Fang
        (to get himself noticed) is what caused the riff
        between them. Paul just couldn't help but lie.
        This was his nature... to self-promote and to
        trick others with his street-smarts. It was fun,
        and he made a vocation out of it with Gail's help
        and encouragement. Plus, PT gave people what
        they wanted and needed... the best "spiritual"
        and "fastest" (most direct) track (path) to God
        with prestigious initiations (that carrot) used
        as "yardsticks" of consciousness... and viola'!

        http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch._Two.htm

        Prometheus


        etznab wrote:
        >
        >
        > I have a curiosity related to this subject.
        >
        > It has to do with when Rebazar Tarzs first
        > "appears" to start dictating to Paul Twitchell.
        >
        > I haven't seen the original Dialogues With
        > The Master (began 1956?) and the Tiger's
        > Fang (began 1957?) manuscripts so I can't
        > prove whether Rebazar Tarzs' name was in
        > them instead of Kirpal Singh, or someone
        > else. However, written history shows that it
        > was shortly after meeting Gail that Rebazar
        > Tarzs "started" to appear. I don't know if this
        > is when it actually "started", or whether the
        > history is saying this is when The Far Country
        > book (dialogue? discourse? dictation?) started.
        >
        > Here are some references I am basing my
        > knowledge on:
        >
        > "Paul [Paul Twitchell] wrote Dialogues With
        > The Master around 1956, from the references
        > I have seen, but didn't publish it until 1970.
        > Paul also wrote The Flute of God in 1959, but
        > didn't put it into print until 1966, in the Orion
        > Magazine series. This pattern is similar to
        > Paul's writing of The Far Country in 1963,
        > which wasn't published until 1970."
        >
        > [Based on: Doug Marman, Dialogue in the
        > Age of Criticism, Chap. 6]
        >
        > "[....] 'It was while traveling with Sudar Singh
        > in the Nuri Sarup that I met Rebazar Tarzs,'
        > Paulji reminded me, 'and it was in the company
        > of Rebazar Tarzs that I returned to a study of the
        > Far Country. Later, with Gail and her spiritual guide,
        > Dr. John Leland, I came to know Rebazar Tarzs
        > better, and I began to leave my physical body at
        > night to meet with him at his mud and brick hut in
        > the Himalayas. It was a series of twelve important
        > dialogues with Rebazar Tarzs which produced my
        > manuscript The Far Country.'* [*Published in 1970.]
        > [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN
        > 0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?),
        > p. 121]
        >
        > Here it suggests dialogues and Paul going to
        > Rebazar Tarzs' hut in the Himalayas. In another
        > place, though, it looks like the history is saying
        > that Rebazar Tarzs came to Paul and "dictated"
        > the book.
        >
        > "[....] Since this first meeting [summer 1951] with
        > Rebazar Tarzs it has been proved many times over,
        > especially when he appeared nightly for a period to
        > dictate a full manuscript called 'The Far Country', a
        > whole discourse on ECKANKAR, in my apartment
        > in San Francisco [Summer? Fall? 1964] while his
        > body was lying on a crude bed in a hut high in the
        > Hindu Kush mountains. [....]"
        >
        > [Based on: ECKANKAR, Compiled Writings Volume
        > 1, Paul Twitchell - Copyright 1975 by Gail T. Gross,
        > p. 35]
        >
        > The word dictated appears again (earlier) here.
        >
        > "[....] Among my numerous discourses from many
        > gurus in the flesh and those on the inner planes are
        > those taken down when Sudar Singh appeared in my
        > apartment in New York City in his light body, although
        > his flesh self was six thousand miles away in India.
        > This is also true of Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibetan monk,
        > who appears quite frequently in my home. Last fall
        > [Summer 1964?] he dictated a book-length manuscript
        > called 'The Far Country.' [....]" [Based on: ECKANKAR,
        > Compiled Writings Volume 1, Paul Twitchell (Copyright
        > 1975 by Gail T. Gross), p. 12]
        >
        > BTW, apparently Kirpal Singh had some of the same
        > ability as attributed to Paul Twitchell's "Eck Masters.
        >
        > "Kirpal Singh who is still at his own ashram in India,
        > has the ability to appear to his own people, in his Nuri
        > Sarup body, no matter where they may be. A skill which
        > almost anybody can learn who gets the knack of bilocat-
        > ion. Among my numerous discourses from many gurus
        > in the flesh and those on the inner planes, are those
        > taken down when Kirpal Singh appeared in my apartment
        > in Washington, D.C., in his light body, although his flesh
        > self was six-thousand miles away in India."
        >
        > That quote was courtesy of David Lane @
        >
        > http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html
        >
        > Apparently that was an earlier version of an article
        > that was later changed and Sudar Singh came to re-
        > place the name Kirpal Singh. (Note: check web site,
        > and source, for clarity.)
        >
        > If Rebazar Tarzs' name didn't appear in the original
        > Dialogues With The Master or The Tiger's Fang manu-
        > scripts, would that make The Far Country the earliest
        > Eckankar book dictated to Paul by Rebazar Tarzs? I
        > am curious about this. Also, who in God's name was
        > Dr. John Leland?
        >
        > Etznab
      • etznab@aol.com
        Prometheus, I was referring to the manuscripts, begun one and two years after Paul was initiated by Kirpal Singh. According to Marman, 1956 and 1957. If the
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 8 12:10 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Prometheus,

          I was referring to the manuscripts, begun one
          and two years after Paul was initiated by Kirpal
          Singh. According to Marman, 1956 and 1957.

          If the manuscript for The Tiger's Fang was re-
          turned by Kirpal Singh in 1966, do you suppose
          that manuscript might be in the possession of
          Eckankar today? I ask about this because that
          manuscript could prove once and for all whether
          it was Kirpal Singh or Rebazar Tarzs who was
          in the earlier versions.

          Paul supposedly liked to keep carbon copies
          for all his works and writings.

          Where do you suppose is that early manu-
          script for The Tiger's Fang that Paul sent to
          Kirpal Singh and that Kirpal reportedly sent
          back?

          Lost to history?

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, Aug 8, 2009 11:17 am
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Kirpal's Problems With
          Twitchell's "The Tiger's Fang"

           






          Hello Etznab and All,

          I have trouble believing any speculations

          by an EK apologist like Marman, or someone

          like Steiger who generally wrote about UFOs,

          Bigfoot, etc. Besides, we all know that Paul

          spoon fed Steiger anything and everything.

          It was all about PR and Steiger didn't care

          about the Truth and states that he never

          verified anything coming from Twit's mouth.



          Klemp
          has said that Twit 'exaggerated' and

          'twisted facts.' I, also, wouldn't believe a word

          coming out of the mouths of Patti and Gail

          since they have endorsed Marman's distortion

          and corruption of "The Whole Truth." It seems

          they are trying to save face, or are rationalizing

          about their roles and involvement with Twit's

          scam. IMO-They are attempting to show

          themselves in a good light for the sake of

          history. I doubt that they have a guilty conscience,

          or else they wouldn't be endorsing Marman's

          fraud.



          I, also, don't believe that Twit worked on

          "The Tiger's Fang" from 1957-1967. Twit

          never took that much time writing/plagiarizing

          both of his Shariyats! Remember, too, Klemp

          states on Eckankar.org that Kirpal sent PT's

          Tiger's Fang manuscript back to him around

          June 1966. Thus, after this is when Twit edited

          out Kirpal's name and replaced it with RT's.

          Therefore, "The Tiger's Fang" wasn't finally

          printed until 1967 since 1967 is the copyright

          date.



          Marman, in the link below, gives David Lane

          credit for much of his research into Paul, but

          then puts his own spin of speculation and

          opinion on some of these details.



          However, I can see why, even, Marman has

          stated (on FJ's Truth-Seeker) that the existence

          of EK Master Rebazar Tarzs is a Myth. It's very

          obvious that Kirpal Singh is the "Mas
          ter" Twit

          was originally writing about. Their disagreement

          about Paul's exaggerations in The Tiger's Fang

          (to get himself noticed) is what caused the riff

          between them. Paul just couldn't help but lie.

          This was his nature... to self-promote and to

          trick others with his street-smarts. It was fun,

          and he made a vocation out of it with Gail's help

          and encouragement. Plus, PT gave people what

          they wanted and needed... the best "spiritual"

          and "fastest" (most direct) track (path) to God

          with prestigious initiations (that carrot) used

          as "yardsticks" of consciousness... and viola'!



          http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch._Two.htm



          Prometheus



          etznab wrote:

          >

          >

          > I have a curiosity related to this subject.

          >

          > It has to do with when Rebazar Tarzs first

          > "appears" to start dictating to Paul Twitchell.

          >

          > I haven't seen the original Dialogues With

          > The Master (began 1956?) and the Tiger's

          > Fang (began 1957?) manuscripts so I can't

          > prove whether Rebazar Tarzs' name was in

          > them instead of Kirpal Singh, or someone

          > else. However, written history shows that it

          > was shortly after meeting Gail that Rebazar

          > Tarzs "started" to appear. I don't know if this

          > is when it actually "started", or whether the

          > history is saying this is when The
          Far Country

          > book (dialogue? discourse? dictation?) started.

          >

          > Here are some references I am basing my

          > knowledge on:

          >

          > "Paul [Paul Twitchell] wrote Dialogues With

          > The Master around 1956, from the references

          > I have seen, but didn't publish it until 1970.

          > Paul also wrote The Flute of God in 1959, but

          > didn't put it into print until 1966, in the Orion

          > Magazine series. This pattern is similar to

          > Paul's writing of The Far Country in 1963,

          > which wasn't published until 1970."

          >

          > [Based on: Doug Marman, Dialogue in the

          > Age of Criticism, Chap. 6]

          >

          > "[....] 'It was while traveling with Sudar Singh

          > in the Nuri Sarup that I met Rebazar Tarzs,'

          > Paulji reminded me, 'and it was in the company

          > of Rebazar Tarzs that I returned to a study of the

          > Far Country. Later, with Gail and her spiritual guide,

          > Dr. John Leland, I came to know Rebazar Tarzs

          > better, and I began to leave my physical body at

          > night to meet with him at his mud and brick hut in

          > the Himalayas. It was a series of twelve important

          > dialogues with Rebazar Tarzs which produced my

          > manuscript The Far Country.'* [*Published in 1970.]

          > [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN

          > 0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger20(Copyright 1968?),

          > p. 121]

          >

          > Here it suggests dialogues and Paul going to

          > Rebazar Tarzs' hut in the Himalayas. In another

          > place, though, it looks like the history is saying

          > that Rebazar Tarzs came to Paul and "dictated"

          > the book.

          >

          > "[....] Since this first meeting [summer 1951] with

          > Rebazar Tarzs it has been proved many times over,

          > especially when he appeared nightly for a period to

          > dictate a full manuscript called 'The Far Country', a

          > whole discourse on ECKANKAR, in my apartment

          > in San Francisco [Summer? Fall? 1964] while his

          > body was lying on a crude bed in a hut high in the

          > Hindu Kush mountains. [....]"

          >

          > [Based on: ECKANKAR, Compiled Writings Volume

          > 1, Paul Twitchell - Copyright 1975 by Gail T. Gross,

          > p. 35]

          >

          > The word dictated appears again (earlier) here.

          >

          > "[....] Among my numerous discourses from many

          > gurus in the flesh and those on the inner planes are

          > those taken down when Sudar Singh appeared in my

          > apartment in New York City in his light body, although

          > his flesh self was six thousand miles away in India.

          > This is also true of Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibetan monk,

          > who appears quite frequently in my home. Last fall

          > [Summer 1964?] he dictate
          d a book-length manuscript

          > called 'The Far Country.' [....]" [Based on: ECKANKAR,

          > Compiled Writings Volume 1, Paul Twitchell (Copyright

          > 1975 by Gail T. Gross), p. 12]

          >

          > BTW, apparently Kirpal Singh had some of the same

          > ability as attributed to Paul Twitchell's "Eck Masters.

          >

          > "Kirpal Singh who is still at his own ashram in India,

          > has the ability to appear to his own people, in his Nuri

          > Sarup body, no matter where they may be. A skill which

          > almost anybody can learn who gets the knack of bilocat-

          > ion. Among my numerous discourses from many gurus

          > in the flesh and those on the inner planes, are those

          > taken down when Kirpal Singh appeared in my apartment

          > in Washington, D.C., in his light body, although his flesh

          > self was six-thousand miles away in India."

          >

          > That quote was courtesy of David Lane @

          >

          > http://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html

          >

          > Apparently that was an earlier version of an article

          > that was later changed and Sudar Singh came to re-

          > place the name Kirpal Singh. (Note: check web site,

          > and source, for clarity.)

          >

          > If Rebazar Tarzs' name didn't appear in the original

          > Dialogues With The Master or The Tiger's Fang manu-

          > scripts, would that make The Far Country the ear
          liest

          > Eckankar book dictated to Paul by Rebazar Tarzs? I

          > am curious about this. Also, who in God's name was

          > Dr. John Leland?

          >

          > Etznab
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab and All, It seems like Marman is speculating, himself, on these dates or else he wouldn t be saying 1956 and 1957. Didn t Paul write anything
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 9 12:34 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Etznab and All,
            It seems like Marman is speculating,
            himself, on these dates or else he
            wouldn't be saying 1956 and 1957.
            Didn't Paul write anything after these
            dates? Of course! He did his revision,
            for one thing (1966 or 1967), and
            Marman admits to that. I'd say that
            PT probably added, substituted,
            changed, and omitted a few other
            things over the years to tweak his
            TF.

            Maybe these so-called "manuscripts"
            were merely from PT's dream journals,
            as well as, copies of his initiate reports
            to his, then, Master Kirpal Singh. In that
            case we all have "manuscripts" that we
            have been working upon for years and,
            even, have hidden away! Of course, knowing
            Paul's background as we do, I'd have to
            say he also "researched" his travels into
            these other planes by visiting "physical
            plane" libraries (versus an Astral Library)
            including the one Gail was working in.

            If Eckankar does have an "original"
            Tiger's Fang manuscript for its "historical"
            library/museum it would be the revised
            one that omitted Kirpal's name and
            substituted Rebazar's. But, that's a
            rather obvious prophecy isn't it!

            On another note:
            Isn't it interesting that Twitchell makes
            a couple of disclaimers at the beginning
            of The Tiger's Fang.

            On page v Paul has a quote from Niranjan.
            It states, 'Man does not know real freedom.
            His dogmas are set and imposed upon him
            from the outside; his religious beliefs become
            frozen over the centuries. His religions do
            not come from within, anymore. They belong
            to an outside world.' "Niranjan: The Tiger's
            Fang"

            I doubt that the "outside" "religious beliefs"
            of Eckankar, and Eckists, as well as, its
            "dogmas" are excluded from this observation.
            BTW- There is no mention of a Mahanta,
            here, in 1967. Yet, PT is supposed to be
            the Mahanta in 1967. Twit mentions the
            "Mahanta" once in the back of his 1969
            "The Flute of God."

            Paul, now, gets into his main disclaimer
            in the introduction on page 1.

            "The book came out of personal experience.
            What is written on these pages is Not as
            important as the recording of those worlds
            that few Souls, other than the saints, have
            ever visited."

            It's no wonder that Kirpal had a problem
            with this book since PT's placing himself
            on the same level as a "saint."

            "Some will say that this book is the wild
            fantasy of a highly developed imagination,
            BUT one must understand that THERE IS
            NOTHING IN THE WORLDS OF GOD WITHOUT
            SOME DEGREE OF TRUTH. EVEN FANTASY
            IS CAST OUT OF THE MATERIAL CLOTH
            OF GOD, SO HOW CAN FANTASY BE A
            COMPLETE UNTRUTH?"

            That's pretty slick! However, it was always
            my belief that ONLY COMPLETE TRUTH can
            exist in the Pure Positive (Higher) God Worlds.
            There is Not "some degree of truth." Is Twit
            serious when he asks us "how can fantasy
            be a complete untruth?" If it's not REAL
            and is pretend it still could have some lower
            plane "truth," but this shouldn't be confused
            with the Truth coming from the (higher) God
            Worlds!

            "This statement should stagger the mind
            of man and shake the foundation of the
            teachings of the orthodox religions, philosophies,
            and metaphysics. However, I am prepared
            to make my statements based on pure experience,
            and one must remember that all experiences
            are unique ONLY to the experiencer."

            Since "all experiences are unique only to the
            experiencer" and are "fantasy" and have some
            "untruth" to them what, then, makes them valid?
            Remember, too, Twit wrote for "Ripley's Believe
            It or Not!" And, Klemp states that Twitchell was
            'exaggerating' and 'twisting facts' at the age
            of 27!

            This seems to be a disclaimer that gives Twit
            the license to lie and deceive. Is this a novel,
            or is it real and factual? No one can challenge
            it either way according to Twit. But, one person
            did challenge it and that was Kirpal Singh!
            Thus the disagreement and the substitution
            of Rebazar's name in place of Kirpal's name!

            However, when taking a second look at this
            book I'm getting the impression that it's actual
            purpose was to be, somewhat, like a resume
            that PT was writing for his Master, Kirpal Singh.
            Or, maybe Twit thought that he was "honoring"
            Kirpal while promoting himself. Nah! Twit thought
            that Kirpal would like what he read since it verified
            his Mastership on these higher planes and, thus,
            Kirpal would Not challenge it. Then, Paul would
            have Kirpal's acknowledgment and verification
            that he was truly a "Master" or saint himself.
            Paul would then have the credentials to break
            away and start his own Ruhani Satsang sect.
            But, this didn't happen and, thus, Paul had to
            create Rebazar in order to have the title of
            "Master" passed on... to himself! After all,
            Twitchell has already given people a heads-up
            that it's all "fantasy."

            Prometheus

            etznab wrote:

            Prometheus,

            I was referring to the manuscripts, begun one
            and two years after Paul was initiated by Kirpal
            Singh. According to Marman, 1956 and 1957.

            If the manuscript for The Tiger's Fang was re-
            turned by Kirpal Singh in 1966, do you suppose
            that manuscript might be in the possession of
            Eckankar today? I ask about this because that
            manuscript could prove once and for all whether
            it was Kirpal Singh or Rebazar Tarzs who was
            in the earlier versions.

            Paul supposedly liked to keep carbon copies
            for all his works and writings.

            Where do you suppose is that early manu-
            script for The Tiger's Fang that Paul sent to
            Kirpal Singh and that Kirpal reportedly sent
            back?

            Lost to history?

            Etznab

            prometheus wrote:

            Hello Etznab and All,

            I have trouble believing any speculations

            by an EK apologist like Marman, or someone

            like Steiger who generally wrote about UFOs,

            Bigfoot, etc. Besides, we all know that Paul

            spoon fed Steiger anything and everything.

            It was all about PR and Steiger didn't care

            about the Truth and states that he never

            verified anything coming from Twit's mouth.



            Klemp has said that Twit 'exaggerated' and

            'twisted facts.' I, also, wouldn't believe a word

            coming out of the mouths of Patti and Gail

            since they have endorsed Marman's distortion

            and corruption of "The Whole Truth." It seems

            they are trying to save face, or are rationalizing

            about their roles and involvement with Twit's

            scam. IMO-They are attempting to show

            themselves in a good light for the sake of

            history. I doubt that they have a guilty conscience,

            or else they wouldn't be endorsing Marman's

            fraud.



            I, also, don't believe that Twit worked on

            "The Tiger's Fang" from 1957-1967. Twit

            never took that much time writing/plagiarizing

            both of his Shariyats! Remember, too, Klemp

            states on Eckankar.org that Kirpal sent PT's

            Tiger's Fang manuscript back to him around

            June 1966. Thus, after this is when Twit edited

            out Kirpal's name and replaced it with RT's.

            Therefore, "The Tiger's Fang" wasn't finally

            printed until 1967 since 1967 is the copyright

            date.



            Marman, in the link below, gives David Lane

            credit for much of his research into Paul, but

            then puts his own spin of speculation and

            opinion on some of these details.



            However, I can see why, even, Marman has

            stated (on FJ's Truth-Seeker) that the existence

            of EK Master Rebazar Tarzs is a Myth. It's very

            obvious that Kirpal Singh is the "Master" Twit

            was originally writing about. Their disagreement

            about Paul's exaggerations in The Tiger's Fang

            (to get himself noticed) is what caused the riff

            between them. Paul just couldn't help but lie.

            This was his nature... to self-promote and to

            trick others with his street-smarts. It was fun,

            and he made a vocation out of it with Gail's help

            and encouragement. Plus, PT gave people what

            they wanted and needed... the best "spiritual"

            and "fastest" (most direct) track (path) to God

            with prestigious initiations (that carrot) used

            as "yardsticks" of consciousness... and viola'!



            http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch._Two.htm



            Prometheus
          • etznab@aol.com
            Prometheus, Paul was a promoter and he wrote for people he knew. Ever since the Navy, Scientology and the other spiritual groups. I wonder if Paul wasn t
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 10 5:39 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Prometheus,

              Paul was a "promoter" and he wrote for
              people he knew.

              Ever since the Navy, Scientology and
              the other spiritual groups.

              I wonder if Paul wasn't writing to promote
              the teachings of Kirpal Singh and the path
              he was supposedly initiated into in 1955.

              This is just a suspicion, but the manuscripts
              did "apparently" get written one and two years
              after hooking up with Kirpal.

              Do you recall ever having ever seen that Kal
              Niranjan quote in any other book?

              I'll have to check, but I thought it was in The
              Path Of The Masters. I could be wrong here -
              I've been wrong before - but I wonder if that one
              sounds familiar to you or anybody else.

              Etznab


              -----Original Message-----
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, Aug 9, 2009 2:34 am
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Kirpal's Problems With
              Twitchell's "The Tiger's Fang"

               






              Hello Etznab and All,

              It seems like Marman is speculating,

              himself, on these dates or else he

              wouldn't be saying 1956 and 1957.

              Didn't Paul write anything after these

              dates? Of course! He did his revision,

              for one thing (1966 or 1967), and

              Marman admits to that. I'd say that

              PT probably added, substituted,

              changed, and omitted a few other

              things over the years to tweak his

              TF.
              0A


              Maybe these so-called "manuscripts"

              were merely from PT's dream journals,

              as well as, copies of his initiate reports

              to his, then, Master Kirpal Singh. In that

              case we all have "manuscripts" that we

              have been working upon for years and,

              even, have hidden away! Of course, knowing

              Paul's background as we do, I'd have to

              say he also "researched" his travels into

              these other planes by visiting "physical

              plane" libraries (versus an Astral Library)

              including the one Gail was working in.



              If Eckankar does have an "original"

              Tiger's Fang manuscript for its "historical"

              library/museum it would be the revised

              one that omitted Kirpal's name and

              substituted Rebazar's. But, that's a

              rather obvious prophecy isn't it!



              On another note:

              Isn't it interesting that Twitchell makes

              a couple of disclaimers at the beginning

              of The Tiger's Fang.



              On page v Paul has a quote from Niranjan.

              It states, 'Man does not know real freedom.

              His dogmas are set and imposed upon him

              from the outside; his religious beliefs become

              frozen over the centuries. His religions do

              not come from within, anymore. They belong

              to an outside world.' "Niranjan: The Tiger's

              Fang"



              I doubt that the "outside" "religious beliefs"

              of Eckankar, and Eckists, as well as, its

              "dogmas" are excluded from this observat
              ion.

              BTW- There is no mention of a Mahanta,

              here, in 1967. Yet, PT is supposed to be

              the Mahanta in 1967. Twit mentions the

              "Mahanta" once in the back of his 1969

              "The Flute of God."



              Paul, now, gets into his main disclaimer

              in the introduction on page 1.



              "The book came out of personal experience.

              What is written on these pages is Not as

              important as the recording of those worlds

              that few Souls, other than the saints, have

              ever visited."



              It's no wonder that Kirpal had a problem

              with this book since PT's placing himself

              on the same level as a "saint."



              "Some will say that this book is the wild

              fantasy of a highly developed imagination,

              BUT one must understand that THERE IS

              NOTHING IN THE WORLDS OF GOD WITHOUT

              SOME DEGREE OF TRUTH. EVEN FANTASY

              IS CAST OUT OF THE MATERIAL CLOTH

              OF GOD, SO HOW CAN FANTASY BE A

              COMPLETE UNTRUTH?"



              That's pretty slick! However, it was always

              my belief that ONLY COMPLETE TRUTH can

              exist in the Pure Positive (Higher) God Worlds.

              There is Not "some degree of truth." Is Twit

              serious when he asks us "how can fantasy

              be a complete untruth?" If it's not REAL

              and is pretend it still could have some lower

              plane "truth," but this shouldn't be confused

              with the Truth coming from the (higher) God

              W
              orlds!



              "This statement should stagger the mind

              of man and shake the foundation of the

              teachings of the orthodox religions, philosophies,

              and metaphysics. However, I am prepared

              to make my statements based on pure experience,

              and one must remember that all experiences

              are unique ONLY to the experiencer."



              Since "all experiences are unique only to the

              experiencer" and are "fantasy" and have some

              "untruth" to them what, then, makes them valid?

              Remember, too, Twit wrote for "Ripley's Believe

              It or Not!" And, Klemp states that Twitchell was

              'exaggerating' and 'twisting facts' at the age

              of 27!



              This seems to be a disclaimer that gives Twit

              the license to lie and deceive. Is this a novel,

              or is it real and factual? No one can challenge

              it either way according to Twit. But, one person

              did challenge it and that was Kirpal Singh!

              Thus the disagreement and the substitution

              of Rebazar's name in place of Kirpal's name!



              However, when taking a second look at this

              book I'm getting the impression that it's actual

              purpose was to be, somewhat, like a resume

              that PT was writing for his Master, Kirpal Singh.

              Or, maybe Twit thought that he was "honoring"

              Kirpal while promoting himself. Nah! Twit thought

              that Kirpal would like what he read since it verified

              his Mastership on these higher planes and,=2
              0thus,

              Kirpal would Not challenge it. Then, Paul would

              have Kirpal's acknowledgment and verification

              that he was truly a "Master" or saint himself.

              Paul would then have the credentials to break

              away and start his own Ruhani Satsang sect.

              But, this didn't happen and, thus, Paul had to

              create Rebazar in order to have the title of

              "Master" passed on... to himself! After all,

              Twitchell has already given people a heads-up

              that it's all "fantasy."



              Prometheus



              etznab wrote:



              Prometheus,



              I was referring to the manuscripts, begun one

              and two years after Paul was initiated by Kirpal

              Singh. According to Marman, 1956 and 1957.



              If the manuscript for The Tiger's Fang was re-

              turned by Kirpal Singh in 1966, do you suppose

              that manuscript might be in the possession of

              Eckankar today? I ask about this because that

              manuscript could prove once and for all whether

              it was Kirpal Singh or Rebazar Tarzs who was

              in the earlier versions.



              Paul supposedly liked to keep carbon copies

              for all his works and writings.



              Where do you suppose is that early manu-

              script for The Tiger's Fang that Paul sent to

              Kirpal Singh and that Kirpal reportedly sent

              back?



              Lost to history?



              Etznab



              prometheus wrote:



              Hello Etznab and All,




              I have trouble believing any speculations



              by an EK apologist like Marman, or someone



              like Steiger who generally wrote about UFOs,



              Bigfoot, etc. Besides, we all know that Paul



              spoon fed Steiger anything and everything.



              It was all about PR and Steiger didn't care



              about the Truth and states that he never



              verified anything coming from Twit's mouth.



              Klemp has said that Twit 'exaggerated' and



              'twisted facts.' I, also, wouldn't believe a word



              coming out of the mouths of Patti and Gail



              since they have endorsed Marman's distortion



              and corruption of "The Whole Truth." It seems



              they are trying to save face, or are rationalizing



              about their roles and involvement with Twit's



              scam. IMO-They are attempting to show



              themselves in a good light for the sake of



              history. I doubt that they have a guilty conscience,



              or else they wouldn't be endorsing Marman's



              fraud.



              I, also, don't believe that Twit worked on



              "The Tiger's Fang" from 1957-1967. Twit



              never took that much time writing/plagiarizing



              both of his Shariyats! Remember, too, Klemp



              states on Eckankar.org that Kirpal sent PT's



              Tiger's Fang manuscript back to him around


              0D
              June 1966. Thus, after this is when Twit edited



              out Kirpal's name and replaced it with RT's.



              Therefore, "The Tiger's Fang" wasn't finally



              printed until 1967 since 1967 is the copyright



              date.



              Marman, in the link below, gives David Lane



              credit for much of his research into Paul, but



              then puts his own spin of speculation and



              opinion on some of these details.



              However, I can see why, even, Marman has



              stated (on FJ's Truth-Seeker) that the existence



              of EK Master Rebazar Tarzs is a Myth. It's very



              obvious that Kirpal Singh is the "Master" Twit



              was originally writing about. Their disagreement



              about Paul's exaggerations in The Tiger's Fang



              (to get himself noticed) is what caused the riff



              between them. Paul just couldn't help but lie.



              This was his nature... to self-promote and to



              trick others with his street-smarts. It was fun,



              and he made a vocation out of it with Gail's help



              and encouragement. Plus, PT gave people what



              they wanted and needed... the best "spiritual"



              and "fastest" (most direct) track (path) to God



              with prestigious initiations (that carrot) used



              as "yardsticks" of consciousness... and viola'!



              http://www.littleknownpubs
              com/Dialog_Ch._Two.htm



              Prometheus
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab and All, I think that when Paul was initiated by Kirpal, in 1955, that he was very involved with the spiritual, as well as, trying to eek out a
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 10 8:24 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Etznab and All,
                I think that when Paul was initiated
                by Kirpal, in 1955, that he was very
                involved with the spiritual, as well as,
                trying to eek out a living for himself.

                When Gail came onto the scene things
                began to change. This is when PT started
                to focus upon making more money. It
                seems to me that Paul did have a two
                fold approach with Kirpal. It's kind of
                what happened with Graham and Harold,
                except, Graham didn't start his own
                religious group... but then again Graham
                didn't have a "Gail" to push him along.
                What does the PT/Kirpal & Rebazar/EK
                time-line look like with Gail factored in?

                There are plenty of EK quotes in "The Path
                of the Masters," but I don't know if that
                one particular, KAL, quote is there.

                I really like that Buddha quote, "Is it true,
                Is it necessary, Is it kind?" Most ECKists
                really think that this came from Twit or
                Klemp! Well, when you know you know,
                or you think you "know" you know!

                Prometheus

                etznab wrote:

                Prometheus,

                Paul was a "promoter" and he wrote for
                people he knew.

                Ever since the Navy, Scientology and
                the other spiritual groups.

                I wonder if Paul wasn't writing to promote
                the teachings of Kirpal Singh and the path
                he was supposedly initiated into in 1955.

                This is just a suspicion, but the manuscripts
                did "apparently" get written one and two years
                after hooking up with Kirpal.

                Do you recall ever having ever seen that Kal
                Niranjan quote in any other book?

                I'll have to check, but I thought it was in The
                Path Of The Masters. I could be wrong here -
                I've been wrong before - but I wonder if that one
                sounds familiar to you or anybody else.

                Etznab


                prometheus wrote:


                Hello Etznab and All,

                It seems like Marman is speculating,

                himself, on these dates or else he

                wouldn't be saying 1956 and 1957.

                Didn't Paul write anything after these

                dates? Of course! He did his revision,

                for one thing (1966 or 1967), and

                Marman admits to that. I'd say that

                PT probably added, substituted,

                changed, and omitted a few other

                things over the years to tweak his

                TF.



                Maybe these so-called "manuscripts"

                were merely from PT's dream journals,

                as well as, copies of his initiate reports

                to his, then, Master Kirpal Singh. In that

                case we all have "manuscripts" that we

                have been working upon for years and,

                even, have hidden away! Of course, knowing

                Paul's background as we do, I'd have to

                say he also "researched" his travels into

                these other planes by visiting "physical

                plane" libraries (versus an Astral Library)

                including the one Gail was working in.



                If Eckankar does have an "original"

                Tiger's Fang manuscript for its "historical"

                library/museum it would be the revised

                one that omitted Kirpal's name and

                substituted Rebazar's. But, that's a

                rather obvious prophecy isn't it!



                On another note:

                Isn't it interesting that Twitchell makes

                a couple of disclaimers at the beginning

                of The Tiger's Fang.



                On page v Paul has a quote from Niranjan.

                It states, 'Man does not know real freedom.

                His dogmas are set and imposed upon him

                from the outside; his religious beliefs become

                frozen over the centuries. His religions do

                not come from within, anymore. They belong

                to an outside world.' "Niranjan: The Tiger's

                Fang"



                I doubt that the "outside" "religious beliefs"

                of Eckankar, and Eckists, as well as, its

                "dogmas" are excluded from this observation.

                BTW- There is no mention of a Mahanta,

                here, in 1967. Yet, PT is supposed to be

                the Mahanta in 1967. Twit mentions the

                "Mahanta" once in the back of his 1969

                "The Flute of God."



                Paul, now, gets into his main disclaimer

                in the introduction on page 1.



                "The book came out of personal experience.

                What is written on these pages is Not as

                important as the recording of those worlds

                that few Souls, other than the saints, have

                ever visited."



                It's no wonder that Kirpal had a problem

                with this book since PT's placing himself

                on the same level as a "saint."



                "Some will say that this book is the wild

                fantasy of a highly developed imagination,

                BUT one must understand that THERE IS

                NOTHING IN THE WORLDS OF GOD WITHOUT

                SOME DEGREE OF TRUTH. EVEN FANTASY

                IS CAST OUT OF THE MATERIAL CLOTH

                OF GOD, SO HOW CAN FANTASY BE A

                COMPLETE UNTRUTH?"



                That's pretty slick! However, it was always

                my belief that ONLY COMPLETE TRUTH can

                exist in the Pure Positive (Higher) God Worlds.

                There is Not "some degree of truth." Is Twit

                serious when he asks us "how can fantasy

                be a complete untruth?" If it's not REAL

                and is pretend it still could have some lower

                plane "truth," but this shouldn't be confused

                with the Truth coming from the (higher) God

                Worlds!



                "This statement should stagger the mind

                of man and shake the foundation of the

                teachings of the orthodox religions, philosophies,

                and metaphysics. However, I am prepared

                to make my statements based on pure experience,

                and one must remember that all experiences

                are unique ONLY to the experiencer."



                Since "all experiences are unique only to the

                experiencer" and are "fantasy" and have some

                "untruth" to them what, then, makes them valid?

                Remember, too, Twit wrote for "Ripley's Believe

                It or Not!" And, Klemp states that Twitchell was

                'exaggerating' and 'twisting facts' at the age

                of 27!



                This seems to be a disclaimer that gives Twit

                the license to lie and deceive. Is this a novel,

                or is it real and factual? No one can challenge

                it either way according to Twit. But, one person

                did challenge it and that was Kirpal Singh!

                Thus the disagreement and the substitution

                of Rebazar's name in place of Kirpal's name!



                However, when taking a second look at this

                book I'm getting the impression that it's actual

                purpose was to be, somewhat, like a resume

                that PT was writing for his Master, Kirpal Singh.

                Or, maybe Twit thought that he was "honoring"

                Kirpal while promoting himself. Nah! Twit thought

                that Kirpal would like what he read since it verified

                his Mastership on these higher planes and, thus,

                Kirpal would Not challenge it. Then, Paul would

                have Kirpal's acknowledgment and verification

                that he was truly a "Master" or saint himself.

                Paul would then have the credentials to break

                away and start his own Ruhani Satsang sect.

                But, this didn't happen and, thus, Paul had to

                create Rebazar in order to have the title of

                "Master" passed on... to himself! After all,

                Twitchell has already given people a heads-up

                that it's all "fantasy."



                Prometheus



                etznab wrote:



                Prometheus,



                I was referring to the manuscripts, begun one

                and two years after Paul was initiated by Kirpal

                Singh. According to Marman, 1956 and 1957.



                If the manuscript for The Tiger's Fang was re-

                turned by Kirpal Singh in 1966, do you suppose

                that manuscript might be in the possession of

                Eckankar today? I ask about this because that

                manuscript could prove once and for all whether

                it was Kirpal Singh or Rebazar Tarzs who was

                in the earlier versions.



                Paul supposedly liked to keep carbon copies

                for all his works and writings.



                Where do you suppose is that early manu-

                script for The Tiger's Fang that Paul sent to

                Kirpal Singh and that Kirpal reportedly sent

                back?



                Lost to history?



                Etznab
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