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Re: And Why Doesn't the M/LEM "Know" More About PT?

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  • paulji_teen
    According to Wikipedia, Paul Twitchell was born John Paul Twitchell , so I went back to the SSDI to see if there is a listing for a John P. or John Paul
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 2, 2009
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      According to Wikipedia, Paul Twitchell was born "John Paul Twitchell", so I went back to the SSDI to see if there is a listing for a John P. or John Paul Twitchell. John P turned up nothing. John Twitchell turned up 16 listings, none of which matched our Paul.

      I wonder why Paul isn't listed in the death records...?



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Klemp claims that in the "archival warehouse"
      > rests a manuscript from the Main Text of the
      > Shariyat 2. This is "guarded by a nave" (not a master)
      > in the Temple of Askleposis on the Astral Plane.
      > And, HK states, "Paul, myself, and certain appointed
      > writers (not EK Masters?) do research from this archival
      > (Astral) material when they are writing their own
      > books. In fact, Paul's firm hand has dotted the left
      > margin of this source manuscript with voluminous
      > notes."
      >
      > Shouldn't ECKankar be using text higher than an
      > ASTRAL resource for its Holy Books? What, of a
      > higher plane, Holy Book has Klemp written?
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/behindscenes.html
      >
      >
      > Next, Klemp states this,
      >
      > "By and large, Paul wrote for the people of his times....
      > Therefore, the written and spoken words of ECK(ankar)
      > are suited exactly to the temper of the times in which
      > they are given..."
      >
      > *Where are the Holy Books that fit the "temper"
      > of these times?
      >
      > HK: "The writings of Paul Twitchell will be available
      > for years to come, BUT they will always be secondary
      > to the message of the LEM of the times."
      >
      > *Why then, does Klemp use PT's Shariyats as the
      > Primary and Not "secondary" writings? Klemp speaks
      > with a forked-tongue!
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/incontext.html
      >
      >
      >
      > HK: "So by some accounts, he was born on October
      > 23, 1908 or 1910, while other accounts give the date
      > as October 22. Paul loved his privacy.... it's hard to
      > tell exactly when he graduated from high school..."
      >
      > *Klemp gives Oct. 22 as PT's birthday and month
      > in the EK Lexicon. Strange that this is the exact
      > day and moth that all LEMs are handed the Rod
      > of ECK Power! PT's birth year, of 1908, is given
      > by Klemp on the copyright page of the combined
      > Shariyats 1&2.
      >
      >
      > HK: "Starting as early as the 1930s, Paul was his
      > own best drumbeater... He promoted himself
      > all the time..."
      >
      > *Just as Klemp does via ECKankar pubs! HK likes
      > those book royalties coming in!
      >
      > HK: "In 1955... He was kicked out of the ashram...
      > and he separated from his (first) wife... At that
      > time he ran into Kirpal Singh who was in charge
      > of Ruhani Satsang."
      >
      > *Paul was initiated by Kirpal in 1955 and remained
      > a chela until 1965.
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
      >
      >
      > HK: "Paul had some experiences in which
      > Kirpal Singh came to him in his room." [Like
      > Rebazar did]
      >
      > HK: "Paul sent his manuscript of The Tiger's Fang
      > to Kirpal Singh in India... they had this little falling
      > out. Perhaps they worked it out later." [No, they
      > didn't! Paul embellished his stories and Kirpal
      > didn't like it and returned the manuscript to
      > PT in 1966.]
      >
      > *Klemp claims that the Shariyat 2 (1971) "originally"
      > stated that the Mahanta came every 5 to 1000 years,
      > BUT that a proof-reader (like himself) had changed
      > it to 500-1000 years and this is why he (HK) did an
      > edit and changed it back to state 5-1000 years.
      > [PT created the title of Mahanta, circa, January 1, 1969.]
      >
      > However, Klemp needed to change the Shariyat 2
      > in order to become the Mahanta. And, this is why
      > Darwin didn't make this claim of Mahantaship, or
      > else, Klemp wouldn't have been able to unseat him.
      >
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html
      >
      > HK: "Drawbacks to a Strong Intellect
      >
      > Western society (Europe included) puts great stock
      > in an intellectually attuned mind, and great emphasis
      > on the kind of education that programs the mind
      > to fit into patterns and forms. [But Klemp is listed
      > in the "International Who's Who of Intellectuals"]
      > BUT in other societies, such as Africa... the people
      > are able to experience the Light and Sound of God
      > more easily."
      >
      > *I wonder if Klemp realizes that "Africa" is a very
      > large continent and Not a "society." Is South America
      > an advanced spiritual society as well? Plus, from
      > what I've seen and heard, about many African countries,
      > there's a lot of superstition and local/regional lore
      > mixed in with various religious beliefs.
      >
      > HK: "The Do-Gooder Syndrome...
      >
      > The social consciousness--the do-gooder syndrome--
      > can make us think we are doing a great deed for
      > mankind."
      >
      > *BUT, the EK missionary/vahana program
      > is exempt from this syndrome because.... ?
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html
      >
      >
      > Basically, it seems that Klemp has to do a lot
      > of guessing when it comes to Twitchell. HK even
      > sent people to India to do research on Sudar Singh
      > who was actually a name substitute for Kirpal Singh!
      > But, Why doesn't the "All Knowing" Mahanta (Klemp)
      > "KNOW" these things? Why can't HK discuss these
      > matters with Peddar (PT) on the Inner Planes?
      > Aren't there records, on the Soul Plane, of everything
      > that has happened to each Soul. But, Twit was a
      > Mahanta... so why can't Klemp get this info from
      > the horse's mouth?
      >
      > Klemp is a fraud! There is NO Inner Communication
      > with anyone and that's why snail-mail IROs are
      > needed and Why RESAs decide who will get that
      > pink slip for initiation. ECKankar is just another
      > feel-good scam religion... with a hierarchy!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Paulji teen and All, Klemp gives PT s birthdate as Oct. 22, 1908 and we know his death (translation) was September 17, 1971... or was that Sept. 19th...
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 2, 2009
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        Hello Paulji teen and All,
        Klemp gives PT's birthdate as Oct. 22, 1908
        and we know his death (translation) was
        September 17, 1971... or was that Sept.
        19th... I forget?

        Anyway, I think that we can all agree that
        Twit did die and isn't still "living" somewhere
        in Sedona, Az., or in the Outback... or Vegas
        for that matter! LOL! Now, did Paulji reincarnate
        as an ATOM-doer? Nah, I doubt that too!

        Still, it's interesting that Klemp makes all of
        those grandiose claims for the Mahanta (himself),
        and, yet, is incapable of speaking to a former
        Mahanta (Paul) on the "inner" in order to "know"
        what the facts are!

        HK even claims (on Eckankar.org) to have sent
        a team of ECKists to India to do research on
        Sudar Singh (aka. Kirpal Singh) who was,
        supposedly, the 970th LEM! Why wouldn't
        Klemp (the "Inner Master") be able to contact
        Sudar on the "inner," as well as, Paul (Peddar)?
        See, it doesn't make sense! This was just one
        more nail in the EK coffin when I was a member.
        It was more proof that Klemp wasn't delivering
        on what he claimed to have powers over...
        all planes!

        As to why you can't find Paul's death records...
        I don't know, but Ford Johnson found them.
        I had/have a copy of Paul's death certificate
        that I copied from Ford's, now defunct,
        General Data Base on the Truth-Seeker
        site. But, I can't seem to locate it now. I,
        do, have a copy of Paul's sister's (Kay-Dee)
        death certificate and a copy of Paul and Gail's
        marriage certificate. Maybe you'll have to
        write or call Cincinnati's or Ohio's Vital
        Statistics Records department and have
        them mail you out a copy for John Paul
        Twitchell, died 09/17/1971.

        Didn't you say that you were there at that
        seminar? What was that like? What did your
        parents say about it? Did you see and speak
        to Tom Flamma or Anya Foos? I wonder what
        she's doing now? BTW-I can't remember when
        Tom Flamma translated... does anyone know?

        Prometheus


        paulji_teen wrote:

        Re: And Why Doesn't the M/LEM "Know" More About PT?

        According to Wikipedia, Paul Twitchell was born "John
        Paul Twitchell", so I went back to the SSDI to see if there
        is a listing for a John P. or John Paul Twitchell. John P
        turned up nothing. John Twitchell turned up 16 listings,
        none of which matched our Paul.

        I wonder why Paul isn't listed in the death records...?



        prometheus wrote:

        > Klemp claims that in the "archival warehouse"
        > rests a manuscript from the Main Text of the
        > Shariyat 2. This is "guarded by a nave" (not a master)
        > in the Temple of Askleposis on the Astral Plane.
        > And, HK states, "Paul, myself, and certain appointed
        > writers (not EK Masters?) do research from this archival
        > (Astral) material when they are writing their own
        > books. In fact, Paul's firm hand has dotted the left
        > margin of this source manuscript with voluminous
        > notes."
        >
        > Shouldn't ECKankar be using text higher than an
        > ASTRAL resource for its Holy Books? What, of a
        > higher plane, Holy Book has Klemp written?

        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/behindscenes.html

        >
        > Next, Klemp states this,
        >
        > "By and large, Paul wrote for the people of his times....
        > Therefore, the written and spoken words of ECK(ankar)
        > are suited exactly to the temper of the times in which
        > they are given..."
        >
        > *Where are the Holy Books that fit the "temper"
        > of these times?
        >
        > HK: "The writings of Paul Twitchell will be available
        > for years to come, BUT they will always be secondary
        > to the message of the LEM of the times."
        >
        > *Why then, does Klemp use PT's Shariyats as the
        > Primary and Not "secondary" writings? Klemp speaks
        > with a forked-tongue!

        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/incontext.html

        >
        >
        > HK: "So by some accounts, he was born on October
        > 23, 1908 or 1910, while other accounts give the date
        > as October 22. Paul loved his privacy.... it's hard to
        > tell exactly when he graduated from high school..."
        >
        > *Klemp gives Oct. 22 as PT's birthday and month
        > in the EK Lexicon. Strange that this is the exact
        > day and moth that all LEMs are handed the Rod
        > of ECK Power! PT's birth year, of 1908, is given
        > by Klemp on the copyright page of the combined
        > Shariyats 1&2.
        >
        >
        > HK: "Starting as early as the 1930s, Paul was his
        > own best drumbeater... He promoted himself
        > all the time..."
        >
        > *Just as Klemp does via ECKankar pubs! HK likes
        > those book royalties coming in!
        >
        > HK: "In 1955... He was kicked out of the ashram...
        > and he separated from his (first) wife... At that
        > time he ran into Kirpal Singh who was in charge
        > of Ruhani Satsang."
        >
        > *Paul was initiated by Kirpal in 1955 and remained
        > a chela until 1965.

        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html

        >
        > HK: "Paul had some experiences in which
        > Kirpal Singh came to him in his room." [Like
        > Rebazar did]
        >
        > HK: "Paul sent his manuscript of The Tiger's Fang
        > to Kirpal Singh in India... they had this little falling
        > out. Perhaps they worked it out later." [No, they
        > didn't! Paul embellished his stories and Kirpal
        > didn't like it and returned the manuscript to
        > PT in 1966.]
        >
        > *Klemp claims that the Shariyat 2 (1971) "originally"
        > stated that the Mahanta came every 5 to 1000 years,
        > BUT that a proof-reader (like himself) had changed
        > it to 500-1000 years and this is why he (HK) did an
        > edit and changed it back to state 5-1000 years.
        > [PT created the title of Mahanta, circa, January 1, 1969.]
        > However, Klemp needed to change the Shariyat 2
        > in order to become the Mahanta. And, this is why
        > Darwin didn't make this claim of Mahantaship, or
        > else, Klemp wouldn't have been able to unseat him.
        >

        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

        > HK: "Drawbacks to a Strong Intellect
        >
        > Western society (Europe included) puts great stock
        > in an intellectually attuned mind, and great emphasis
        > on the kind of education that programs the mind
        > to fit into patterns and forms. [But Klemp is listed
        > in the "International Who's Who of Intellectuals"]
        > BUT in other societies, such as Africa... the people
        > are able to experience the Light and Sound of God
        > more easily."
        >
        > *I wonder if Klemp realizes that "Africa" is a very
        > large continent and Not a "society." Is South America
        > an advanced spiritual society as well? Plus, from
        > what I've seen and heard, about many African countries,
        > there's a lot of superstition and local/regional lore
        > mixed in with various religious beliefs.
        >
        > HK: "The Do-Gooder Syndrome...
        >
        > The social consciousness--the do-gooder syndrome--
        > can make us think we are doing a great deed for
        > mankind."
        >
        > *BUT, the EK missionary/vahana program
        > is exempt from this syndrome because.... ?

        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html

        >
        > Basically, it seems that Klemp has to do a lot
        > of guessing when it comes to Twitchell. HK even
        > sent people to India to do research on Sudar Singh
        > who was actually a name substitute for Kirpal Singh!
        > But, Why doesn't the "All Knowing" Mahanta (Klemp)
        > "KNOW" these things? Why can't HK discuss these
        > matters with Peddar (PT) on the Inner Planes?
        > Aren't there records, on the Soul Plane, of everything
        > that has happened to each Soul. But, Twit was a
        > Mahanta... so why can't Klemp get this info from
        > the horse's mouth?
        >
        > Klemp is a fraud! There is NO Inner Communication
        > with anyone and that's why snail-mail IROs are
        > needed and Why RESAs decide who will get that
        > pink slip for initiation. ECKankar is just another
        > feel-good scam religion... with a hierarchy!
        >
        > Prometheus
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