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Re: the shame of this ECKankar and Klemp

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  • livingthecreative
    I have read Ford s book it is not there and I don t have time to go through your entire email write now. If you want new information, you will need to wait
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 31 6:19 PM
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      I have read Ford's book it is not there and I don't have time to go through your entire email write now. If you want new information, you will need to wait till have some time over the weekend to put the exact links. From my brief glance at what you wrote, I did not feel that you were really interesed in my sentiments. Are you? Tell me what you think my wholehearted point was in my post and I would prefer to start from a point of agreement and honest inquiry, as Jay offered, wouldn't you? I don't need another round of Eckankar or any other brand of domatism, right? So I will read through your email sometime tonight and then over the weekend I will bring up the links because he has a lot of writing online.

      I also have something to say about the origins of Path of the Masters. It is another interesting thing that happened to me. Personally, I do not think that even the person who you name and I am well aware of was the original author of it......LOL Lata Smile
    • whitemoby22
      Hello living. I just read you post, and it has left me interested in what you say. I have travelled down some similar roads in my own search/process, and I
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
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        Hello living. I just read you post, and it has left me interested in what you say. I have travelled down some similar roads in my own search/process, and I share your questions. And I tend to agree with you - I'm not sure that Paul was so much corrupt or "evil", as so many seem to believe. I think his own process may have been incomplete. And he may have suffered from some developmental things (psychologically) that impaired his process.

        On some other occasion I wondered (out loud) if Paul was truly corrupt, or, as you say, more confused. Well, many posters leapt on me like a spider. But, believe me, I am neither Eckist nor apologist. But I absolutely do wonder about Paul's motivations. How can one not wonder about that? This question goes to the very heart of something deeply spiritual, yet puzzling, for me. I ponder it still

        I left Eckankar after reading "Path of the Masters." It was the same book as Paul's "The Far Country." I would appreciate it if you could recommend something to me by Hazarat Inaya Khan.

        At any rate, I may comment further when I have time.

        Thanks for the post, Moby...

        -------------------------------



        >
        > The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in Rumi's poetry.
        >
        > Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem religion) to the west. It was right around the time that Paul was involved with the other sound current groups.
        >
        > No one has looked into this, but I have read a bundle of what Inayat Khan wrote at that time. If you look at those writing you can the perversion of higher level masters that Paul turned into the Mahanta (there was not just one in their ideology), you can read about the HU, you can read about the spiritual planes and its sounds, you can read about the higher beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent ones. It was when I read all of this that I left Eckankar, sadly.
        >
        > I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.
        >
        > There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand it.
        >
        > I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has come to some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms without succombing to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice. I will say more later. If anyone would like reference, and does not want to do the research themselves, I can lead them to the writings of of Inayat Khan (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar truely came from and has never been mentioned. I think Lane was young and wrong about many things much of which he has admitted.
        >
        > Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there is much that is not what I can follow. The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore, because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of something that should be united people perverting and it can be seen all over the place....everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the succession had problems and groups splitting off. I find it all more sad than something to criticize. I do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate and find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and unfortunately I do not have an answer.
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        On the subject. http://wahiduddin.net/ Etznab ... From: Jason Mc Dermott To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
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          On the subject.

          http://wahiduddin.net/

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jason Mc Dermott <jsnmcdermott@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:00 pm
          Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this

           






          Hello
          Thank you for a new line of inquiry, and yes I would be very grateful
          for references to the Inayat Khan work
          from a fellow seeker 
          Thank you
          Jay
          From: livingthecreative <livingthecreative@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, 31 July, 2009 17:23:47
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this













           



          The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in
          Rumi's poetry.



          Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem
          religion) to the west. It was right around the time that Paul was
          involved with the other sound current groups.



          No one has looked into this, but I have read a bundle of what Inayat
          Khan wrote at that time. If you look at those writing you can the
          perversion of higher level masters that Paul turned into the Mahanta
          (there was not just one in their ideology), you can read about the HU,
          you can read about the spiritual planes and its sounds, you can read
          about the higher beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent ones
          .
          It was when I read all of this that I left Eckankar, sadly.



          I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a
          filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going
          through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print
          Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition
          that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to
          love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out
          (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think
          about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in
          Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was
          reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic
          memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.



          There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and
          more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is
          not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't
          understand it.



          I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has come to
          some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms without
          succombing to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice. I
          will say more later. If anyone would like reference, and does not want
          to do the research themselves,20I can lead them to the writings of of
          Inayat Khan (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar
          truely came from and has never been mentioned. I think Lane was young
          and wrong about many things much of which he has admitted.



          Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there is much that is not
          what I can follow. The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore,
          because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar
          energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of something
          that should be united people perverting and it can be seen all over the
          place....everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat Khan's group,
          after his unexpected death, the succession had problems and groups
          splitting off. I find it all more sad than something to criticize. I
          do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to their
          spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth
          contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate and
          find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and
          unfortunately I do not have an answer.














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        • Sharon
          ... LC, I ll revisit LTG 3 one of these days, but I got a totally different impression of it. I found it to be ridiculous and a complete waste of time. You
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 2, 2009
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            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
            > From: livingthecreative livingthecreative@...
            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, 31 July, 2009 17:23:47
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this
            >

            >
            > I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a
            > filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.
            >

            LC, I'll revisit LTG 3 one of these days, but I got a totally different impression of it. I found it to be ridiculous and a complete waste of time.

            You know, when I left I made all sorts of excuses for Harold - after all, he'd been my "master" for many years. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and at first even had myself convinced that his lies & dishonesty were actually motivated by love and kindness. Well, I got over that "master" b.s. when it came to Klemp, realized he was just a pitiful little *nothing* - I was way over it when Prometheus created this site, but it's been very interesting because I never recognized just how "nasty" Klemp really was, and I'm so glad P. is pointing out so much that I never saw!

            Recognizing & accepting the truth comes in stages. I think the facts show quite clearly that Paul Twitchell was a narcisstic little con artist, a liar and a thief, who cared only about profits and power, and being worshipped. He knew nothing about love.


            > There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand it.
            >

            I didn't understand it either. I think the truth is, there's no such thing as a "master", and anyone who calls themself a "master" is, for whatever reasons, lying to themselves and everyone else. I think the closest thing to a "master" might be Krishnamurti, who refused to be one. And Mother Theresa, and others like that.


            > I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has
            > come to some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms
            > without succombing to whatever causes this.

            All anyone can do is to do their best, maybe look at earth itself and our lives here as a "higher realm" - and I think the best & easiest way to do it is two simple "rules" from Christianity - "Love one another", and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

            Are there really "higher realms"? I've come to just "label" everything as "physical" and "non-physical", instead of "higher" and "lower". It's all basically the same thing. Earth, for example - you've got incredibly beautiful things like the Taj Mahal, and you've got horrible filthy poverty & people suffering & dying. But it's all earth. I figure the non-physical worlds are the same.

            Plus - it's all in your mind and heart. You can be totally happy, even ecstatic, in what might appear to be absolutely horrible circumstances. And vice versa.



            > The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore,
            > because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar
            > energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of
            > something that should be united people perverting and it can be >seen all over the place....everywhere not just in Eckankar.

            I know what you mean! When I saw the truth about ekult instead of the illusion, the "hu" was ruined for me. It had been my deeply personal love song to "God", and breaking this joyful habit wasn't easy - I had to literally yell "NO" out loud whenever I felt a "hu" bubbling up inside me. The same thing with my "spiritual exercises", and sort of trancing myself out and just immersing myself in that incredible state - suddenly, the illusion was gone and I saw the dark & ugly truth behind it.

            So, I've stayed away from it for all these years, I find ordinary "physical life" incredibly fulfilling & beautiful.

            But, at one point not long after I left, I was sitting outside under a beautiful starry sky and deeply felt the urge to "connect" the way I used to think I did with the "hu". Well, oddly enough, something inside seemed to sing to me - "Allah-Hooooo". I believe that's Sufi, perhaps you could incorporate it into your personal "spiritual" practice safely? I couldn't. Everything "spiritual" had been so defiled and corrupted by ekult I needed to stay away from *everything* for a long time, to totally cleanse my mind, heart, and soul.


            >Even in Inayat Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the >succession had problems and groups splitting off. I find it all >more sad than something to criticize. I
            > do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to >their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth
            > contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate >and find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and
            > unfortunately I do not have an answer.

            You know, LC, many people read what former members post and only see anger, bitterness, etc. And I'll be honest, the first time I landed at alt.religion.eckankar, that's what I saw. But I waited, and watched, and looked deeper. And I'm glad I did. Those who speak out critically aren't ranting, raving, out-of-control and totally consumed by anger or anything else. On the contrary, there's a lot more anger in many currrent eckists, a deep anger that runs beneath their "loving" words and simpering cultic blatherings.

            Oh - there's a good post on the cult & hypnotism in the "files" over at ET, where someone who seemed like the most vile & vicious "detractor" of all time wrote some very good stuff on how the loud criticism is actually very important to break through that self-induced hypnotic eckfog. And I can personally attest that the "bitchslap" technique is very effective!! It's like if someone is hysterical or losing consciousness, sometimes you've got to literally slap them back to reality.

            But, when you leave, whatever you're feeling is okay, and you need to go thru it all in your own way, whether it's a deep sadness or anger. It will all pass, and you'll come out of it just fine. Just be easy on yourself. And get away from it now & then - do totally "non-spiritual" things, see "normal" people, re-discover the whole world without those blue sunglasses! I found getting outside in the woods very healing - rocks & trees have wonderful & pure energies. And laughter's great, too!! Rent a bunch of comedy videos & spend a whole weekend laughing!

            Yep, for me, the "hu" connects me to ekult's "true" energies, which are dark and evil and just plain horrible. Maybe that's not true for everyone, but that's how it was (and is!) for me.

            Okay, gotta go, take care & be good to yourself!

            Hugs,

            Sharon
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