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Re: the shame of this ECKankar and Klemp

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello living the creative and All, Thanks for the post. Welcome to the site! I looked at my 1977 copy of this 1939 copyright of The Path of the Masters and
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 31, 2009
      Hello "living the creative" and All,
      Thanks for the post. Welcome to the site!

      I looked at my 1977 copy of this 1939
      copyright of "The Path of the Masters"
      and reread what it has to say about the
      HU. Here are some excerpts, from Julian
      P. Johnson's book, that Twitchell used
      to create ECKankar:

      "This sound Hu is the beginning and end
      of all sounds...

      The Supreme Being has been called by
      various names in different languages but
      the mystics have know him as Hu (Arabic),
      the natural name not man-made, the only
      name of the Nameless, which all nature
      constantly proclaims...

      This alone is the true Name of God, a Name
      that no people and no religion can claim
      their own. This word is not only uttered by
      human beings, but is repeated by animals
      and birds...

      This is the Word mentioned in the Bible
      as existing before the light came into the
      world: 'In the beginning was the Word,
      and the Word was with God, and the Word
      was God.' [John 1 :1] ...

      The mystery of Hu is revealed to the Sufi
      who journeys through the Path of Initiation."
      [CH.11]

      I've a few more comments below.

      Prometheus


      livingthecreative wrote:

      The shame of this is that the sound HU has
      a long time usage and is in Rumi's poetry.


      P- Well, Klemp does promote Rumi and
      many Eckists, like Marman, are big fans
      of Rumi, although, Rumi is only listed in
      the EK Lexicon as "a follower" of EK. I do,
      however, find it shameful that Klemp, an
      amazing world-renown author and the
      M/LEM who (btw) has the highest consciousness
      ever known to mankind, can't write poetry!


      Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism
      (separate from Muslem religion) to the west.
      It was right around the time that Paul was
      involved with the other sound current groups.


      P- True. Paul researched and experimented
      with many forms of religious thought.


      "No one has looked into this, but I have read
      a bundle of what Inayat Khan wrote at that
      time. If you look at those writing you can
      the perversion of higher level masters that
      Paul turned into the Mahanta (there was not
      just one in their ideology), you can read about
      the HU, you can read about the spiritual planes
      and its sounds, you can read about the higher
      beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent
      ones. It was when I read all of this that I left
      Eckankar, sadly."


      P- I left after Ford brought this same information
      out in his book. However, one could read "The
      Path of the Masters"since this is the main handbook
      for Eckankar. It's not hard to connect the dots.
      Julian P. Johnson was a follower of Radhasoami
      and Paul's future Master, Kirpal Singh, followed
      these teachings as well until he broke away after
      the death of his Master. Kirpal then formed his
      own sect called Ruhani Satsang. This is the path
      that Twitchell was initiated into and followed from
      1955-1965. True, too, that Twit used Khan's writings
      but also Theosophy. "The Path of the Masters" has
      information on both of these topics. "Planes" are
      listed here as well.



      "I think that Paul may bave been experiencing
      something through a filter. I don't know if he
      was as much currupt as confused and going
      through profound changes. I say this because
      I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three.
      It is an amazing book showing the transition
      that he went through. Just amazing and he
      came out the other end to love being most
      important. In that book all that he read is laid
      out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive.
      I always think about all the close to five hundred
      books that I read while living in Japan.

      Do you think I remember what was in what
      book that I was reading sometimes four at once?
      Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory
      at a time when copyrighting was very different."



      P- Twitchell became more corrupt as his creation
      (Eckankar) brought in more money. As Twitchell
      became more powerful and God-like to his followers
      he became more ego driven. IMO - You give PT
      too much credit... he had the right product at the
      right time... except L. Ron got a head start! BTW-
      Klemp placed himself in the right place at the right
      time as well.

      No, Paul didn't have a photographic memory. And
      he didn't "read" all of those books. Skimming is not
      reading. Paul even admits to this in Difficulty Of
      Becoming the LEM." When listening to his talks this
      fact becomes obvious since he trips himself up
      every now and then. And, IMO Letters to Gail 3
      was not a spiritual book when PT's giving psychic
      techniques to confuse people and drive them insane.
      There's that push / pull one that he uses on a waitress.

      Yes, copyright laws have changed over the years,
      but plagiarism is still plagiarism. If you've ever
      written a college research paper you know that
      sources are always given. And, there are paragraphs
      that Twitchell plagiarized word for word.

      For example: The first paragraph of CH. 2 in the
      1939 copyright of "The Path of the Masters" is
      word for word for what PT wrote on page 131
      of "The Far Country." ['Voltaire has said that
      religion is the solace of the weak. Nietzsche has
      repeated it in substance.'] There's more of course,
      but, this was nothing all that significant. It wasn't
      necessary to plagiarize this, except, to make Twit
      look more intellectual. However, it does say that
      Twit never wanted, early on, for Eckankar to
      become a religion! Maybe this is why Klemp doesn't
      print everything PT wrote. The 1st and 2nd Plane
      Shariyats, Yes, but this anti-religion stance... No!



      "There are so many Masters who went astray
      that it makes me tearful and more than
      criticize wonder what it is that that happens
      and that God is not more present for them
      in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand
      it."


      P- Why be tearful? What about your Self?
      True, it is sad how the blind lead the blind,
      but that's the challenge! Don't be a follower!
      Take what you need from various sources and
      lead your Self or let your Self (Soul) lead you.


      "I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder
      if anyone has come to some conclusion as to
      how to get to these higher realms without succombing
      to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice.
      I will say more later. If anyone would like reference,
      and does not want to do the research themselves,
      I can lead them to the writings of of Inayat Khan
      (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar
      truely came from and has never been mentioned.
      I think Lane was young and wrong about many
      things much of which he has admitted."


      P- Of course people have thought about this!
      As I said before it appears that Twitchell was
      influenced more by Kirpal Singh and "The Path
      of the Masters" than anything else. PT even
      took the 5 Passions and 5 Virtues in "Path" and
      rearranged them in order to eliminate Chastity
      which counteracts Lust. David Lane was not wrong
      about the scam and the plagiarisms and many
      other points he made. Marman nit-picks at some
      things Lane has said, but that's only because Lane
      was not an "insider" or knew about some of the
      "secret teachings" not privy to outsiders. However,
      Ford Johnson was an insider and picked up where
      Lane left off with his book "Confessions of a God
      Seeker."



      "Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there
      is much that is not what I can follow. The shame
      is that I can not sing the HU anymore, because
      I am always in days getting hooked to the whole
      Eckankar energy. This is the problem, a big problem,
      the energy of something that should be united people
      perverting and it can be seen all over the place....
      everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat
      Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the
      succession had problems and groups splitting off.
      I find it all more sad than something to criticize.
      I do not find us humans very civilized and few people
      live up to their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis.
      It is something worth contemplating, but people
      would rather criticize than contemplate and find
      the means to change. That is my problem and
      sadness and unfortunately I do not have an answer."


      P- I don't feel the same about the HU as you do.
      I associate It with the Holy Spirit and with Soul.
      I use It (HU) as a connection with the two. I have
      disassociated myself (finally and completely) with
      any Eckankar/Mahanta/Klemp/Wah Z/Rebazar etc.
      influences. I have the power and Klemp doesn't!
      I will say that it didn't happen overnight, especially,
      with regards to asking for or speaking to the mahanta.
      The brainwashing is more severe than most will
      admit, but that happens with co-dependency.

      BTW- One must wake-up and ask questions,
      analyze, use common sense, and criticize (alert
      others) when oneself and others are being scammed.
      One should tell others when there are sharks in
      the water! One can't just feel sad. That's depressing
      and self-indulgent. One has to see that the "us"
      and "them" mentality isn't working and never has.
      However, this site (ESA) came about due to "contemplation"
      and this has caused "change." But, I will say that
      too much contemplation doesn't work either (it
      can become negative) and contemplation (prayer)
      is a private thing just as one's beliefs should be,
      but that's not the way religions work. Right!
    • livingthecreative
      I have read Ford s book it is not there and I don t have time to go through your entire email write now. If you want new information, you will need to wait
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 31, 2009
        I have read Ford's book it is not there and I don't have time to go through your entire email write now. If you want new information, you will need to wait till have some time over the weekend to put the exact links. From my brief glance at what you wrote, I did not feel that you were really interesed in my sentiments. Are you? Tell me what you think my wholehearted point was in my post and I would prefer to start from a point of agreement and honest inquiry, as Jay offered, wouldn't you? I don't need another round of Eckankar or any other brand of domatism, right? So I will read through your email sometime tonight and then over the weekend I will bring up the links because he has a lot of writing online.

        I also have something to say about the origins of Path of the Masters. It is another interesting thing that happened to me. Personally, I do not think that even the person who you name and I am well aware of was the original author of it......LOL Lata Smile
      • whitemoby22
        Hello living. I just read you post, and it has left me interested in what you say. I have travelled down some similar roads in my own search/process, and I
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
          Hello living. I just read you post, and it has left me interested in what you say. I have travelled down some similar roads in my own search/process, and I share your questions. And I tend to agree with you - I'm not sure that Paul was so much corrupt or "evil", as so many seem to believe. I think his own process may have been incomplete. And he may have suffered from some developmental things (psychologically) that impaired his process.

          On some other occasion I wondered (out loud) if Paul was truly corrupt, or, as you say, more confused. Well, many posters leapt on me like a spider. But, believe me, I am neither Eckist nor apologist. But I absolutely do wonder about Paul's motivations. How can one not wonder about that? This question goes to the very heart of something deeply spiritual, yet puzzling, for me. I ponder it still

          I left Eckankar after reading "Path of the Masters." It was the same book as Paul's "The Far Country." I would appreciate it if you could recommend something to me by Hazarat Inaya Khan.

          At any rate, I may comment further when I have time.

          Thanks for the post, Moby...

          -------------------------------



          >
          > The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in Rumi's poetry.
          >
          > Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem religion) to the west. It was right around the time that Paul was involved with the other sound current groups.
          >
          > No one has looked into this, but I have read a bundle of what Inayat Khan wrote at that time. If you look at those writing you can the perversion of higher level masters that Paul turned into the Mahanta (there was not just one in their ideology), you can read about the HU, you can read about the spiritual planes and its sounds, you can read about the higher beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent ones. It was when I read all of this that I left Eckankar, sadly.
          >
          > I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.
          >
          > There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand it.
          >
          > I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has come to some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms without succombing to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice. I will say more later. If anyone would like reference, and does not want to do the research themselves, I can lead them to the writings of of Inayat Khan (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar truely came from and has never been mentioned. I think Lane was young and wrong about many things much of which he has admitted.
          >
          > Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there is much that is not what I can follow. The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore, because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of something that should be united people perverting and it can be seen all over the place....everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the succession had problems and groups splitting off. I find it all more sad than something to criticize. I do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate and find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and unfortunately I do not have an answer.
          >
        • etznab@aol.com
          On the subject. http://wahiduddin.net/ Etznab ... From: Jason Mc Dermott To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
            On the subject.

            http://wahiduddin.net/

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jason Mc Dermott <jsnmcdermott@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:00 pm
            Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this

             






            Hello
            Thank you for a new line of inquiry, and yes I would be very grateful
            for references to the Inayat Khan work
            from a fellow seeker 
            Thank you
            Jay
            From: livingthecreative <livingthecreative@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, 31 July, 2009 17:23:47
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this













             



            The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in
            Rumi's poetry.



            Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem
            religion) to the west. It was right around the time that Paul was
            involved with the other sound current groups.



            No one has looked into this, but I have read a bundle of what Inayat
            Khan wrote at that time. If you look at those writing you can the
            perversion of higher level masters that Paul turned into the Mahanta
            (there was not just one in their ideology), you can read about the HU,
            you can read about the spiritual planes and its sounds, you can read
            about the higher beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent ones
            .
            It was when I read all of this that I left Eckankar, sadly.



            I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a
            filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going
            through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print
            Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition
            that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to
            love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out
            (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think
            about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in
            Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was
            reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic
            memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.



            There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and
            more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is
            not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't
            understand it.



            I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has come to
            some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms without
            succombing to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice. I
            will say more later. If anyone would like reference, and does not want
            to do the research themselves,20I can lead them to the writings of of
            Inayat Khan (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar
            truely came from and has never been mentioned. I think Lane was young
            and wrong about many things much of which he has admitted.



            Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there is much that is not
            what I can follow. The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore,
            because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar
            energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of something
            that should be united people perverting and it can be seen all over the
            place....everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat Khan's group,
            after his unexpected death, the succession had problems and groups
            splitting off. I find it all more sad than something to criticize. I
            do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to their
            spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth
            contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate and
            find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and
            unfortunately I do not have an answer.














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          • Sharon
            ... LC, I ll revisit LTG 3 one of these days, but I got a totally different impression of it. I found it to be ridiculous and a complete waste of time. You
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 2, 2009
              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              > From: livingthecreative livingthecreative@...
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, 31 July, 2009 17:23:47
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this
              >

              >
              > I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a
              > filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.
              >

              LC, I'll revisit LTG 3 one of these days, but I got a totally different impression of it. I found it to be ridiculous and a complete waste of time.

              You know, when I left I made all sorts of excuses for Harold - after all, he'd been my "master" for many years. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and at first even had myself convinced that his lies & dishonesty were actually motivated by love and kindness. Well, I got over that "master" b.s. when it came to Klemp, realized he was just a pitiful little *nothing* - I was way over it when Prometheus created this site, but it's been very interesting because I never recognized just how "nasty" Klemp really was, and I'm so glad P. is pointing out so much that I never saw!

              Recognizing & accepting the truth comes in stages. I think the facts show quite clearly that Paul Twitchell was a narcisstic little con artist, a liar and a thief, who cared only about profits and power, and being worshipped. He knew nothing about love.


              > There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand it.
              >

              I didn't understand it either. I think the truth is, there's no such thing as a "master", and anyone who calls themself a "master" is, for whatever reasons, lying to themselves and everyone else. I think the closest thing to a "master" might be Krishnamurti, who refused to be one. And Mother Theresa, and others like that.


              > I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has
              > come to some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms
              > without succombing to whatever causes this.

              All anyone can do is to do their best, maybe look at earth itself and our lives here as a "higher realm" - and I think the best & easiest way to do it is two simple "rules" from Christianity - "Love one another", and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

              Are there really "higher realms"? I've come to just "label" everything as "physical" and "non-physical", instead of "higher" and "lower". It's all basically the same thing. Earth, for example - you've got incredibly beautiful things like the Taj Mahal, and you've got horrible filthy poverty & people suffering & dying. But it's all earth. I figure the non-physical worlds are the same.

              Plus - it's all in your mind and heart. You can be totally happy, even ecstatic, in what might appear to be absolutely horrible circumstances. And vice versa.



              > The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore,
              > because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar
              > energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of
              > something that should be united people perverting and it can be >seen all over the place....everywhere not just in Eckankar.

              I know what you mean! When I saw the truth about ekult instead of the illusion, the "hu" was ruined for me. It had been my deeply personal love song to "God", and breaking this joyful habit wasn't easy - I had to literally yell "NO" out loud whenever I felt a "hu" bubbling up inside me. The same thing with my "spiritual exercises", and sort of trancing myself out and just immersing myself in that incredible state - suddenly, the illusion was gone and I saw the dark & ugly truth behind it.

              So, I've stayed away from it for all these years, I find ordinary "physical life" incredibly fulfilling & beautiful.

              But, at one point not long after I left, I was sitting outside under a beautiful starry sky and deeply felt the urge to "connect" the way I used to think I did with the "hu". Well, oddly enough, something inside seemed to sing to me - "Allah-Hooooo". I believe that's Sufi, perhaps you could incorporate it into your personal "spiritual" practice safely? I couldn't. Everything "spiritual" had been so defiled and corrupted by ekult I needed to stay away from *everything* for a long time, to totally cleanse my mind, heart, and soul.


              >Even in Inayat Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the >succession had problems and groups splitting off. I find it all >more sad than something to criticize. I
              > do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to >their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth
              > contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate >and find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and
              > unfortunately I do not have an answer.

              You know, LC, many people read what former members post and only see anger, bitterness, etc. And I'll be honest, the first time I landed at alt.religion.eckankar, that's what I saw. But I waited, and watched, and looked deeper. And I'm glad I did. Those who speak out critically aren't ranting, raving, out-of-control and totally consumed by anger or anything else. On the contrary, there's a lot more anger in many currrent eckists, a deep anger that runs beneath their "loving" words and simpering cultic blatherings.

              Oh - there's a good post on the cult & hypnotism in the "files" over at ET, where someone who seemed like the most vile & vicious "detractor" of all time wrote some very good stuff on how the loud criticism is actually very important to break through that self-induced hypnotic eckfog. And I can personally attest that the "bitchslap" technique is very effective!! It's like if someone is hysterical or losing consciousness, sometimes you've got to literally slap them back to reality.

              But, when you leave, whatever you're feeling is okay, and you need to go thru it all in your own way, whether it's a deep sadness or anger. It will all pass, and you'll come out of it just fine. Just be easy on yourself. And get away from it now & then - do totally "non-spiritual" things, see "normal" people, re-discover the whole world without those blue sunglasses! I found getting outside in the woods very healing - rocks & trees have wonderful & pure energies. And laughter's great, too!! Rent a bunch of comedy videos & spend a whole weekend laughing!

              Yep, for me, the "hu" connects me to ekult's "true" energies, which are dark and evil and just plain horrible. Maybe that's not true for everyone, but that's how it was (and is!) for me.

              Okay, gotta go, take care & be good to yourself!

              Hugs,

              Sharon
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