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the shame of this

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  • livingthecreative
    The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in Rumi s poetry. Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 31, 2009
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      The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in Rumi's poetry.

      Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem religion) to the west. It was right around the time that Paul was involved with the other sound current groups.

      No one has looked into this, but I have read a bundle of what Inayat Khan wrote at that time. If you look at those writing you can the perversion of higher level masters that Paul turned into the Mahanta (there was not just one in their ideology), you can read about the HU, you can read about the spiritual planes and its sounds, you can read about the higher beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent ones. It was when I read all of this that I left Eckankar, sadly.

      I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.

      There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand it.

      I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has come to some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms without succombing to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice. I will say more later. If anyone would like reference, and does not want to do the research themselves, I can lead them to the writings of of Inayat Khan (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar truely came from and has never been mentioned. I think Lane was young and wrong about many things much of which he has admitted.

      Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there is much that is not what I can follow. The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore, because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of something that should be united people perverting and it can be seen all over the place....everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the succession had problems and groups splitting off. I find it all more sad than something to criticize. I do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate and find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and unfortunately I do not have an answer.
    • Jason Mc Dermott
      Hello Thank you for a new line of inquiry, and yes I would be very grateful for references to the Inayat Khan work from a fellow seeker Thank you Jay
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 31, 2009
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        Hello

        Thank you for a new line of inquiry, and yes I would be very grateful for references to the Inayat Khan work

        from a fellow seeker 

        Thank you

        Jay


        From: livingthecreative <livingthecreative@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, 31 July, 2009 17:23:47
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this

         

        The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in Rumi's poetry.

        Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem religion) to the west. It was right around the time that Paul was involved with the other sound current groups.

        No one has looked into this, but I have read a bundle of what Inayat Khan wrote at that time. If you look at those writing you can the perversion of higher level masters that Paul turned into the Mahanta (there was not just one in their ideology), you can read about the HU, you can read about the spiritual planes and its sounds, you can read about the higher beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent ones. It was when I read all of this that I left Eckankar, sadly.

        I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.

        There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand it.

        I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has come to some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms without succombing to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice. I will say more later. If anyone would like reference, and does not want to do the research themselves, I can lead them to the writings of of Inayat Khan (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar truely came from and has never been mentioned. I think Lane was young and wrong about many things much of which he has admitted.

        Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there is much that is not what I can follow. The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore, because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of something that should be united people perverting and it can be seen all over the place....everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the succession had problems and groups splitting off. I find it all more sad than something to criticize. I do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate and find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and unfortunately I do not have an answer.


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      • prometheus_973
        Hello living the creative and All, Thanks for the post. Welcome to the site! I looked at my 1977 copy of this 1939 copyright of The Path of the Masters and
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 31, 2009
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          Hello "living the creative" and All,
          Thanks for the post. Welcome to the site!

          I looked at my 1977 copy of this 1939
          copyright of "The Path of the Masters"
          and reread what it has to say about the
          HU. Here are some excerpts, from Julian
          P. Johnson's book, that Twitchell used
          to create ECKankar:

          "This sound Hu is the beginning and end
          of all sounds...

          The Supreme Being has been called by
          various names in different languages but
          the mystics have know him as Hu (Arabic),
          the natural name not man-made, the only
          name of the Nameless, which all nature
          constantly proclaims...

          This alone is the true Name of God, a Name
          that no people and no religion can claim
          their own. This word is not only uttered by
          human beings, but is repeated by animals
          and birds...

          This is the Word mentioned in the Bible
          as existing before the light came into the
          world: 'In the beginning was the Word,
          and the Word was with God, and the Word
          was God.' [John 1 :1] ...

          The mystery of Hu is revealed to the Sufi
          who journeys through the Path of Initiation."
          [CH.11]

          I've a few more comments below.

          Prometheus


          livingthecreative wrote:

          The shame of this is that the sound HU has
          a long time usage and is in Rumi's poetry.


          P- Well, Klemp does promote Rumi and
          many Eckists, like Marman, are big fans
          of Rumi, although, Rumi is only listed in
          the EK Lexicon as "a follower" of EK. I do,
          however, find it shameful that Klemp, an
          amazing world-renown author and the
          M/LEM who (btw) has the highest consciousness
          ever known to mankind, can't write poetry!


          Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism
          (separate from Muslem religion) to the west.
          It was right around the time that Paul was
          involved with the other sound current groups.


          P- True. Paul researched and experimented
          with many forms of religious thought.


          "No one has looked into this, but I have read
          a bundle of what Inayat Khan wrote at that
          time. If you look at those writing you can
          the perversion of higher level masters that
          Paul turned into the Mahanta (there was not
          just one in their ideology), you can read about
          the HU, you can read about the spiritual planes
          and its sounds, you can read about the higher
          beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent
          ones. It was when I read all of this that I left
          Eckankar, sadly."


          P- I left after Ford brought this same information
          out in his book. However, one could read "The
          Path of the Masters"since this is the main handbook
          for Eckankar. It's not hard to connect the dots.
          Julian P. Johnson was a follower of Radhasoami
          and Paul's future Master, Kirpal Singh, followed
          these teachings as well until he broke away after
          the death of his Master. Kirpal then formed his
          own sect called Ruhani Satsang. This is the path
          that Twitchell was initiated into and followed from
          1955-1965. True, too, that Twit used Khan's writings
          but also Theosophy. "The Path of the Masters" has
          information on both of these topics. "Planes" are
          listed here as well.



          "I think that Paul may bave been experiencing
          something through a filter. I don't know if he
          was as much currupt as confused and going
          through profound changes. I say this because
          I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three.
          It is an amazing book showing the transition
          that he went through. Just amazing and he
          came out the other end to love being most
          important. In that book all that he read is laid
          out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive.
          I always think about all the close to five hundred
          books that I read while living in Japan.

          Do you think I remember what was in what
          book that I was reading sometimes four at once?
          Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory
          at a time when copyrighting was very different."



          P- Twitchell became more corrupt as his creation
          (Eckankar) brought in more money. As Twitchell
          became more powerful and God-like to his followers
          he became more ego driven. IMO - You give PT
          too much credit... he had the right product at the
          right time... except L. Ron got a head start! BTW-
          Klemp placed himself in the right place at the right
          time as well.

          No, Paul didn't have a photographic memory. And
          he didn't "read" all of those books. Skimming is not
          reading. Paul even admits to this in Difficulty Of
          Becoming the LEM." When listening to his talks this
          fact becomes obvious since he trips himself up
          every now and then. And, IMO Letters to Gail 3
          was not a spiritual book when PT's giving psychic
          techniques to confuse people and drive them insane.
          There's that push / pull one that he uses on a waitress.

          Yes, copyright laws have changed over the years,
          but plagiarism is still plagiarism. If you've ever
          written a college research paper you know that
          sources are always given. And, there are paragraphs
          that Twitchell plagiarized word for word.

          For example: The first paragraph of CH. 2 in the
          1939 copyright of "The Path of the Masters" is
          word for word for what PT wrote on page 131
          of "The Far Country." ['Voltaire has said that
          religion is the solace of the weak. Nietzsche has
          repeated it in substance.'] There's more of course,
          but, this was nothing all that significant. It wasn't
          necessary to plagiarize this, except, to make Twit
          look more intellectual. However, it does say that
          Twit never wanted, early on, for Eckankar to
          become a religion! Maybe this is why Klemp doesn't
          print everything PT wrote. The 1st and 2nd Plane
          Shariyats, Yes, but this anti-religion stance... No!



          "There are so many Masters who went astray
          that it makes me tearful and more than
          criticize wonder what it is that that happens
          and that God is not more present for them
          in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand
          it."


          P- Why be tearful? What about your Self?
          True, it is sad how the blind lead the blind,
          but that's the challenge! Don't be a follower!
          Take what you need from various sources and
          lead your Self or let your Self (Soul) lead you.


          "I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder
          if anyone has come to some conclusion as to
          how to get to these higher realms without succombing
          to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice.
          I will say more later. If anyone would like reference,
          and does not want to do the research themselves,
          I can lead them to the writings of of Inayat Khan
          (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar
          truely came from and has never been mentioned.
          I think Lane was young and wrong about many
          things much of which he has admitted."


          P- Of course people have thought about this!
          As I said before it appears that Twitchell was
          influenced more by Kirpal Singh and "The Path
          of the Masters" than anything else. PT even
          took the 5 Passions and 5 Virtues in "Path" and
          rearranged them in order to eliminate Chastity
          which counteracts Lust. David Lane was not wrong
          about the scam and the plagiarisms and many
          other points he made. Marman nit-picks at some
          things Lane has said, but that's only because Lane
          was not an "insider" or knew about some of the
          "secret teachings" not privy to outsiders. However,
          Ford Johnson was an insider and picked up where
          Lane left off with his book "Confessions of a God
          Seeker."



          "Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there
          is much that is not what I can follow. The shame
          is that I can not sing the HU anymore, because
          I am always in days getting hooked to the whole
          Eckankar energy. This is the problem, a big problem,
          the energy of something that should be united people
          perverting and it can be seen all over the place....
          everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat
          Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the
          succession had problems and groups splitting off.
          I find it all more sad than something to criticize.
          I do not find us humans very civilized and few people
          live up to their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis.
          It is something worth contemplating, but people
          would rather criticize than contemplate and find
          the means to change. That is my problem and
          sadness and unfortunately I do not have an answer."


          P- I don't feel the same about the HU as you do.
          I associate It with the Holy Spirit and with Soul.
          I use It (HU) as a connection with the two. I have
          disassociated myself (finally and completely) with
          any Eckankar/Mahanta/Klemp/Wah Z/Rebazar etc.
          influences. I have the power and Klemp doesn't!
          I will say that it didn't happen overnight, especially,
          with regards to asking for or speaking to the mahanta.
          The brainwashing is more severe than most will
          admit, but that happens with co-dependency.

          BTW- One must wake-up and ask questions,
          analyze, use common sense, and criticize (alert
          others) when oneself and others are being scammed.
          One should tell others when there are sharks in
          the water! One can't just feel sad. That's depressing
          and self-indulgent. One has to see that the "us"
          and "them" mentality isn't working and never has.
          However, this site (ESA) came about due to "contemplation"
          and this has caused "change." But, I will say that
          too much contemplation doesn't work either (it
          can become negative) and contemplation (prayer)
          is a private thing just as one's beliefs should be,
          but that's not the way religions work. Right!
        • livingthecreative
          I have read Ford s book it is not there and I don t have time to go through your entire email write now. If you want new information, you will need to wait
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 31, 2009
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            I have read Ford's book it is not there and I don't have time to go through your entire email write now. If you want new information, you will need to wait till have some time over the weekend to put the exact links. From my brief glance at what you wrote, I did not feel that you were really interesed in my sentiments. Are you? Tell me what you think my wholehearted point was in my post and I would prefer to start from a point of agreement and honest inquiry, as Jay offered, wouldn't you? I don't need another round of Eckankar or any other brand of domatism, right? So I will read through your email sometime tonight and then over the weekend I will bring up the links because he has a lot of writing online.

            I also have something to say about the origins of Path of the Masters. It is another interesting thing that happened to me. Personally, I do not think that even the person who you name and I am well aware of was the original author of it......LOL Lata Smile
          • whitemoby22
            Hello living. I just read you post, and it has left me interested in what you say. I have travelled down some similar roads in my own search/process, and I
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
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              Hello living. I just read you post, and it has left me interested in what you say. I have travelled down some similar roads in my own search/process, and I share your questions. And I tend to agree with you - I'm not sure that Paul was so much corrupt or "evil", as so many seem to believe. I think his own process may have been incomplete. And he may have suffered from some developmental things (psychologically) that impaired his process.

              On some other occasion I wondered (out loud) if Paul was truly corrupt, or, as you say, more confused. Well, many posters leapt on me like a spider. But, believe me, I am neither Eckist nor apologist. But I absolutely do wonder about Paul's motivations. How can one not wonder about that? This question goes to the very heart of something deeply spiritual, yet puzzling, for me. I ponder it still

              I left Eckankar after reading "Path of the Masters." It was the same book as Paul's "The Far Country." I would appreciate it if you could recommend something to me by Hazarat Inaya Khan.

              At any rate, I may comment further when I have time.

              Thanks for the post, Moby...

              -------------------------------



              >
              > The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in Rumi's poetry.
              >
              > Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem religion) to the west. It was right around the time that Paul was involved with the other sound current groups.
              >
              > No one has looked into this, but I have read a bundle of what Inayat Khan wrote at that time. If you look at those writing you can the perversion of higher level masters that Paul turned into the Mahanta (there was not just one in their ideology), you can read about the HU, you can read about the spiritual planes and its sounds, you can read about the higher beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent ones. It was when I read all of this that I left Eckankar, sadly.
              >
              > I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.
              >
              > There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand it.
              >
              > I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has come to some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms without succombing to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice. I will say more later. If anyone would like reference, and does not want to do the research themselves, I can lead them to the writings of of Inayat Khan (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar truely came from and has never been mentioned. I think Lane was young and wrong about many things much of which he has admitted.
              >
              > Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there is much that is not what I can follow. The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore, because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of something that should be united people perverting and it can be seen all over the place....everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the succession had problems and groups splitting off. I find it all more sad than something to criticize. I do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate and find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and unfortunately I do not have an answer.
              >
            • etznab@aol.com
              On the subject. http://wahiduddin.net/ Etznab ... From: Jason Mc Dermott To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 1, 2009
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                On the subject.

                http://wahiduddin.net/

                Etznab

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Jason Mc Dermott <jsnmcdermott@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, Jul 31, 2009 2:00 pm
                Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this

                 






                Hello
                Thank you for a new line of inquiry, and yes I would be very grateful
                for references to the Inayat Khan work
                from a fellow seeker 
                Thank you
                Jay
                From: livingthecreative <livingthecreative@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, 31 July, 2009 17:23:47
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this













                 



                The shame of this is that the sound HU has a long time usage and is in
                Rumi's poetry.



                Hazarat Inayat Khan brought Sufi mysticism (separate from Muslem
                religion) to the west. It was right around the time that Paul was
                involved with the other sound current groups.



                No one has looked into this, but I have read a bundle of what Inayat
                Khan wrote at that time. If you look at those writing you can the
                perversion of higher level masters that Paul turned into the Mahanta
                (there was not just one in their ideology), you can read about the HU,
                you can read about the spiritual planes and its sounds, you can read
                about the higher beings that Paul perverted into the nine silent ones
                .
                It was when I read all of this that I left Eckankar, sadly.



                I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a
                filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going
                through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print
                Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition
                that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to
                love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out
                (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think
                about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in
                Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was
                reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic
                memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.



                There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and
                more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is
                not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't
                understand it.



                I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has come to
                some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms without
                succombing to whatever causes this. It is painful for me to notice. I
                will say more later. If anyone would like reference, and does not want
                to do the research themselves,20I can lead them to the writings of of
                Inayat Khan (who did not live a long life) where I believe Eckankar
                truely came from and has never been mentioned. I think Lane was young
                and wrong about many things much of which he has admitted.



                Yet, I have left Eckankar and I do think that there is much that is not
                what I can follow. The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore,
                because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar
                energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of something
                that should be united people perverting and it can be seen all over the
                place....everywhere not just in Eckankar. Even in Inayat Khan's group,
                after his unexpected death, the succession had problems and groups
                splitting off. I find it all more sad than something to criticize. I
                do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to their
                spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth
                contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate and
                find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and
                unfortunately I do not have an answer.














                Send instant messages to your online friends
                http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
              • Sharon
                ... LC, I ll revisit LTG 3 one of these days, but I got a totally different impression of it. I found it to be ridiculous and a complete waste of time. You
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 2, 2009
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                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  > From: livingthecreative livingthecreative@...
                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Friday, 31 July, 2009 17:23:47
                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] the shame of this
                  >

                  >
                  > I think that Paul may bave been experiencing something through a
                  > filter. I don't know if he was as much currupt as confused and going through profound changes. I say this because I read the out of print Letters to Gail Three. It is an amazing book showing the transition that he went through. Just amazing and he came out the other end to love being most important. In that book all that he read is laid out (incuding Path of tha Masters). It is impressive. I always think about all the close to five hundred books that I read while living in Japan. Do you think I remember what was in what book that I was reading sometimes four at once? Not. He supposedly had a photographic memory at a time when copyrighting was very different.
                  >

                  LC, I'll revisit LTG 3 one of these days, but I got a totally different impression of it. I found it to be ridiculous and a complete waste of time.

                  You know, when I left I made all sorts of excuses for Harold - after all, he'd been my "master" for many years. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and at first even had myself convinced that his lies & dishonesty were actually motivated by love and kindness. Well, I got over that "master" b.s. when it came to Klemp, realized he was just a pitiful little *nothing* - I was way over it when Prometheus created this site, but it's been very interesting because I never recognized just how "nasty" Klemp really was, and I'm so glad P. is pointing out so much that I never saw!

                  Recognizing & accepting the truth comes in stages. I think the facts show quite clearly that Paul Twitchell was a narcisstic little con artist, a liar and a thief, who cared only about profits and power, and being worshipped. He knew nothing about love.


                  > There are so many Masters who went astray that it makes me tearful and more than criticize wonder what it is that that happens and that God is not more present for them in a way that they don't fall. I don't understand it.
                  >

                  I didn't understand it either. I think the truth is, there's no such thing as a "master", and anyone who calls themself a "master" is, for whatever reasons, lying to themselves and everyone else. I think the closest thing to a "master" might be Krishnamurti, who refused to be one. And Mother Theresa, and others like that.


                  > I wonder if any has thought about this. I wonder if anyone has
                  > come to some conclusion as to how to get to these higher realms
                  > without succombing to whatever causes this.

                  All anyone can do is to do their best, maybe look at earth itself and our lives here as a "higher realm" - and I think the best & easiest way to do it is two simple "rules" from Christianity - "Love one another", and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

                  Are there really "higher realms"? I've come to just "label" everything as "physical" and "non-physical", instead of "higher" and "lower". It's all basically the same thing. Earth, for example - you've got incredibly beautiful things like the Taj Mahal, and you've got horrible filthy poverty & people suffering & dying. But it's all earth. I figure the non-physical worlds are the same.

                  Plus - it's all in your mind and heart. You can be totally happy, even ecstatic, in what might appear to be absolutely horrible circumstances. And vice versa.



                  > The shame is that I can not sing the HU anymore,
                  > because I am always in days getting hooked to the whole Eckankar
                  > energy. This is the problem, a big problem, the energy of
                  > something that should be united people perverting and it can be >seen all over the place....everywhere not just in Eckankar.

                  I know what you mean! When I saw the truth about ekult instead of the illusion, the "hu" was ruined for me. It had been my deeply personal love song to "God", and breaking this joyful habit wasn't easy - I had to literally yell "NO" out loud whenever I felt a "hu" bubbling up inside me. The same thing with my "spiritual exercises", and sort of trancing myself out and just immersing myself in that incredible state - suddenly, the illusion was gone and I saw the dark & ugly truth behind it.

                  So, I've stayed away from it for all these years, I find ordinary "physical life" incredibly fulfilling & beautiful.

                  But, at one point not long after I left, I was sitting outside under a beautiful starry sky and deeply felt the urge to "connect" the way I used to think I did with the "hu". Well, oddly enough, something inside seemed to sing to me - "Allah-Hooooo". I believe that's Sufi, perhaps you could incorporate it into your personal "spiritual" practice safely? I couldn't. Everything "spiritual" had been so defiled and corrupted by ekult I needed to stay away from *everything* for a long time, to totally cleanse my mind, heart, and soul.


                  >Even in Inayat Khan's group, after his unexpected death, the >succession had problems and groups splitting off. I find it all >more sad than something to criticize. I
                  > do not find us humans very civilized and few people live up to >their spiritual beliefs on a daily basis. It is something worth
                  > contemplating, but people would rather criticize than contemplate >and find the means to change. That is my problem and sadness and
                  > unfortunately I do not have an answer.

                  You know, LC, many people read what former members post and only see anger, bitterness, etc. And I'll be honest, the first time I landed at alt.religion.eckankar, that's what I saw. But I waited, and watched, and looked deeper. And I'm glad I did. Those who speak out critically aren't ranting, raving, out-of-control and totally consumed by anger or anything else. On the contrary, there's a lot more anger in many currrent eckists, a deep anger that runs beneath their "loving" words and simpering cultic blatherings.

                  Oh - there's a good post on the cult & hypnotism in the "files" over at ET, where someone who seemed like the most vile & vicious "detractor" of all time wrote some very good stuff on how the loud criticism is actually very important to break through that self-induced hypnotic eckfog. And I can personally attest that the "bitchslap" technique is very effective!! It's like if someone is hysterical or losing consciousness, sometimes you've got to literally slap them back to reality.

                  But, when you leave, whatever you're feeling is okay, and you need to go thru it all in your own way, whether it's a deep sadness or anger. It will all pass, and you'll come out of it just fine. Just be easy on yourself. And get away from it now & then - do totally "non-spiritual" things, see "normal" people, re-discover the whole world without those blue sunglasses! I found getting outside in the woods very healing - rocks & trees have wonderful & pure energies. And laughter's great, too!! Rent a bunch of comedy videos & spend a whole weekend laughing!

                  Yep, for me, the "hu" connects me to ekult's "true" energies, which are dark and evil and just plain horrible. Maybe that's not true for everyone, but that's how it was (and is!) for me.

                  Okay, gotta go, take care & be good to yourself!

                  Hugs,

                  Sharon
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