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Klemp Confuses ECKists - Keeps Them Second Guessing & Off-Balance

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I was looking at some of HK s comments and see that he is, not only, interchanging definitions, but is also claiming to be the Holy Spirit, the ECK,
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 16, 2009
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      Hello All,
      I was looking at some of HK's comments
      and see that he is, not only, interchanging
      definitions, but is also claiming to be the
      Holy Spirit, the ECK, while having the titles
      of LEM/Mahanta!

      -April 2008, Letter of Light, Questions for the Master-

      HK: "You will thus be developing good leaders
      to help you tell others about the beautiful teachings
      of ECK."

      ME: Now, is Klemp referring to the teachings
      of "ECK" (the Holy Spirit), or to the teachings
      of ECKankar (a lower plane religion)?

      And then in another response HK states:

      "So give room for the ECK, the Mahanta, to
      determine whether your goal is in keeping
      with the divine laws."

      ME: See how he just slid this statement under
      (almost) everyone's radar! Klemp is claiming
      to be the Holy Spirit (the ECK)! Thus, ECKists
      have NO other choice but to look to Klemp
      and him alone! The brain-washing is almost
      complete as Klemp has not only become GOD,
      but also the HOLY SPIRIT (the ECK)!

      Also, Klemp is telling ECKists to look to him
      for INNER GUIDANCE since he is BOTH the
      ECK and the Mahanta. He will give answers
      and guidance "to determine whether your
      goal is in keeping with the divine laws."

      Catch-22: Answers really need to be in writing,
      as in this EK publication, and thereby approved
      or else it might not have come from the Master
      (i.e. the ECK, Mahanta, Inner Master, Vi-Guru,
      Hairy, Wah-Zoo, etc.)

      Prometheus
    • paulji_teen
      In reply to prometheus_973, I agree sometimes that the intent is possibly to confuse, and other times it is just left vague . Harold s so-called spiritual
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 17, 2009
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        In reply to prometheus_973, I agree sometimes that the intent is possibly to confuse, and other times it is just left 'vague'. Harold's so-called 'spiritual name' btw is "Wa-Zee", or "Z", but even I laughed at the "wah-zoo" word.

        The duality and confusion, I think, comes from on one hand telling people 'don't worship the personality' - focus on the Eck - then on the other hand, making endless comments about focus should be on the Mahanta. But then again the Mahanta is the "inner" master not the outer one...

        Other places I have seen, although not recently, comments about not -over- thinking the outer works of Eckankar - trust with your Soul and heart, etc., and downplaying advanced education. In the earlier days of Harold, in some circles by HIs it was commented on that his style was to help reach the spiritual seekers who were attracted more to his style than Paul's or Darwin's - and implied "less educated", possibly even lower intelligence level???? other comments were made that those initiated under Paul would stay with Paul, those under Darwin, with Darwin, etc. I always have found this strange when the want us old-time Eckists out doing vahana work and we are supposed to be able to promote Harold.
        .............
        Can anyone crack some light on 'how the heck did Harold get picked any way to lead Eckankar?' While I have my suspicions, I don't really know. At the time, my instincts thought the next Eckankar leader / master would be Peter Skelsky.

        Thanks for your comments, Prmoetheus!


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > I was looking at some of HK's comments
        > and see that he is, not only, interchanging
        > definitions, but is also claiming to be the
        > Holy Spirit, the ECK, while having the titles
        > of LEM/Mahanta!
        >
        > -April 2008, Letter of Light, Questions for the Master-
        >
        > HK: "You will thus be developing good leaders
        > to help you tell others about the beautiful teachings
        > of ECK."
        >
        > ME: Now, is Klemp referring to the teachings
        > of "ECK" (the Holy Spirit), or to the teachings
        > of ECKankar (a lower plane religion)?
        >
        > And then in another response HK states:
        >
        > "So give room for the ECK, the Mahanta, to
        > determine whether your goal is in keeping
        > with the divine laws."
        >
        > ME: See how he just slid this statement under
        > (almost) everyone's radar! Klemp is claiming
        > to be the Holy Spirit (the ECK)! Thus, ECKists
        > have NO other choice but to look to Klemp
        > and him alone! The brain-washing is almost
        > complete as Klemp has not only become GOD,
        > but also the HOLY SPIRIT (the ECK)!
        >
        > Also, Klemp is telling ECKists to look to him
        > for INNER GUIDANCE since he is BOTH the
        > ECK and the Mahanta. He will give answers
        > and guidance "to determine whether your
        > goal is in keeping with the divine laws."
        >
        > Catch-22: Answers really need to be in writing,
        > as in this EK publication, and thereby approved
        > or else it might not have come from the Master
        > (i.e. the ECK, Mahanta, Inner Master, Vi-Guru,
        > Hairy, Wah-Zoo, etc.)
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello and Welcome, Thanks for the post and the perspective. I ve made a few comments in response. paulji_teen tigeroverflow wrote: in reply to
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 17, 2009
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          Hello and Welcome,
          Thanks for the post and the perspective.
          I've made a few comments in response.

          "paulji_teen" tigeroverflow wrote:

          in reply to prometheus_973, I agree sometimes that
          the intent is possibly to confuse, and other times it
          is just left 'vague'. Harold's so-called 'spiritual name'
          btw is "Wa-Zee", or "Z", but even I laughed at the
          "wah-zoo" word.

          *ME: I do think that Eckists are expected to use their
          imaginations to fill-in the blanks, due to lack of facts
          and details, and this is what causes the "second-guessing"
          of the Mahanta. Sometimes it works out okay and sometimes
          it doesn't and when it doesn't Klemp has to write a nasty
          article in the H.I. Letter in order to shake things up and
          to make his point. BTW- That's actually WAH-Z or Z, and
          isn't it interesting that Darwin suggested the "WAH" part.
          ["Soul Travelers of the Far Country" CH. 7]

          The duality and confusion, I think, comes from on
          one hand telling people 'don't worship the personality' -
          focus on the Eck - then on the other hand, making
          endless comments about focus should be on the Mahanta.
          But then again the Mahanta is the "inner" master not
          the outer one...

          *ME: Yes, I agree. And, in some respects the Mahanta
          is the LEM just as the LEM is the Mahanta, but now HK
          is also claiming to be the ECK on both the outer and
          inner. Except, in the lower worlds the ECK is the KAL...
          right?

          Other places I have seen, although not recently, comments
          about not -over-thinking the outer works of Eckankar -
          trust with your Soul and heart, etc., and downplaying
          advanced education. In the earlier days of Harold, in
          some circles by HIs it was commented on that his style
          was to help reach the spiritual seekers who were attracted
          more to his style than Paul's or Darwin's - and implied
          "less educated", possibly even lower intelligence level????
          other comments were made that those initiated under
          Paul would stay with Paul, those under Darwin, with Darwin,
          etc. I always have found this strange when the want us old-
          time Eckists out doing vahana work and we are supposed
          to be able to promote Harold.

          *ME: Yes, even the most ignorant can mouth words
          like "it's all about love" as they blindly beat their drums.
          In the beginning the Master that one was initiated under
          was your Master always! Both Gross and Klemp changed
          this, but mostly Klemp. If Darwin was kicked out of the
          Vairagi Order (according to Klemp's word only) then he
          couldn't have chelas. Klemp took on Darwin's chelas
          supposedly... or so the lie goes. Yes, I can see where
          Klemp wanted older more brain-washed H.I.s to give
          their loyalty to him while attracting even less educated
          new chelas to his charismatic personality. I'm being
          sarcastic of course! Paul and Darwin had charisma
          and Klemp... well, he's more of a back-stabbing
          weasel in the EK henhouse.
          .............
          Can anyone crack some light on 'how the heck did
          Harold get picked any way to lead Eckankar?' While
          I have my suspicions, I don't really know. At the time,
          my instincts thought the next Eckankar leader / master
          would be Peter Skelsky.

          *ME: HK flew under the radar at the ESC and
          was on the EK Literary Council, wrote brochures,
          a book, etc. HK looked meek and controllable, thus,
          he would be the book writing front man as the LEM.
          Darwin had no idea that HK had been locked up in
          a Mental Institution and learned "how to play the game"
          (of deceit) in order to be released early. Darwin didn't
          like to write books... he liked to have fun! Thus, Harry
          became the perfect choice!

          Thanks for your comments, Prometheus!

          *ME: Thank You!

          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > I was looking at some of HK's comments
          > and see that he is, not only, interchanging
          > definitions, but is also claiming to be the
          > Holy Spirit, the ECK, while having the titles
          > of LEM/Mahanta!
          >
          > -April 2008, Letter of Light, Questions for the Master-
          >
          > HK: "You will thus be developing good leaders
          > to help you tell others about the beautiful teachings
          > of ECK."
          >
          > ME: Now, is Klemp referring to the teachings
          > of "ECK" (the Holy Spirit), or to the teachings
          > of ECKankar (a lower plane religion)?
          >
          > And then in another response HK states:
          >
          > "So give room for the ECK, the Mahanta, to
          > determine whether your goal is in keeping
          > with the divine laws."
          >
          > ME: See how he just slid this statement under
          > (almost) everyone's radar! Klemp is claiming
          > to be the Holy Spirit (the ECK)! Thus, ECKists
          > have NO other choice but to look to Klemp
          > and him alone! The brain-washing is almost
          > complete as Klemp has not only become GOD,
          > but also the HOLY SPIRIT (the ECK)!
          >
          > Also, Klemp is telling ECKists to look to him
          > for INNER GUIDANCE since he is BOTH the
          > ECK and the Mahanta. He will give answers
          > and guidance "to determine whether your
          > goal is in keeping with the divine laws."
          >
          > Catch-22: Answers really need to be in writing,
          > as in this EK publication, and thereby approved
          > or else it might not have come from the Master
          > (i.e. the ECK, Mahanta, Inner Master, Vi-Guru,
          > Hairy, Wah-Zoo, etc.)
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
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