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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: My Cult Experience & EK Think

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Have you included this site in your links section? http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/ I came across it the other
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 14, 2009
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      Have you included this site in your links section?

      http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/

      I came across it the other day. It reads a lot like
      E.S.A., only the members are from another group.

      The archive section begins here:

      http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html

      Etznab

      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2009 1:20 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: My Cult Experience & EK Think








      Hello Nancy and All,

      Eckankar members see things somewhat differently,

      from your former cult experience, and, of course,

      Eckists use different terminology and jargon. However,

      the more objective viewer, via standing back from it all,

      sees that it is all just another "mind trick" of religion.



      The Eckankar teachings of Twitchell and the current

      leader, Rev. Klemp, teach that orthodox religion fails

      to satisfy the spiritual thirst of Truth/Spiritual Seekers,

      and, thus, they come to Eckankar and other cult groups.



      It is more than likely, however, that many people simply

      need the personal touch, a connection with others, and

      the attention that small groups and small groups (churches)

      can give. It's more "hands on" and personal where people

      can feel important, needed, and listened to.




      In other words, these small religious groups (cults), like

      Eckankar, fulfill the human and social need of "belonging"

      that the big orthodox religious cults are incapable of providing.

      Besides, many Eckists (isolated cultists) tend to be misfits

      of sorts, free thinkers, and skeptics. Yet, they are lulled in

      with interesting and unusual concepts and perspectives

      of life and of "death."



      It's interesting that the EK teachings state that Eckankar

      will be a World-Wide Religion known by all people. After

      28 years, with Klemp in-charge, how close are they?

      BTW- In a past World-Wide Census over 500,000 people

      listed "Jedi" as their religion! And, Eckankar has how many

      members... 50,000 maybe? This is an old number too! For

      some reason this member count, too, is a secret.



      There are actually FOUR (not three) Keys or Precepts to

      Eckankar that every Eckist is well aware of. They are as follows:



      The FOUR S's-



      1. Secrecy

      2. Silence

      3. Surrender

      4. Service



      The "Secrecy" involves not repeating or sharing information

      with others. Now, this just isn't with "spiritual" secrets

      that can "burn" another... it's, especially, with how the

      "business" of Eckankar is run! It has to do more with

      money and what people like HK, JK, and PS are paid and

      with the property (and bank accounts, stocks, etc.) that

      they=2
      0(and Eckankar) own.



      Keeping "Silent," by following the Law of Silence, is key

      to being a "follower." It has a two-fold purpose in that

      the follower or believer (Eckist) feels that they are doing

      right (loyalty) and are demonstrating discipline. Klemp

      benefits because this is a control tactic that other religions

      and secret groups have used, over time, to manipulate

      their followers.



      "Surrender" means giving one's WILL over to another.

      It means that one (the follower) is to stop thinking about

      and analyzing Klemp's words beyond their one-dimensional

      content. It means stop questioning anything that is written

      by and approved by the leader (Klemp). And, the true

      (brain-washed) believer "knows" (second guesses) the

      LEM/Mahanta as to what is NOT to be to be said or repeated

      without it being spelled out in writing as a Spoken, (or

      Unspoken), Rule, Zoa, or Guideline!



      "Service" (in Eckankar) is KEY on many levels. One must

      be a "current" member in order to "Serve," and that means

      paying for that Annual Membership. Of course, donating

      time (to bring in new customers/members) and money

      (for materials) comes with this. It is said that one must

      have "outflow" in order to have "inflow." This "spiritual"

      concept, however, is not unique to Eckankar, although,

      many Eckists think it is entirely (EK) Divine Wisdom passed

      down from the "lineag
      e" of Eck Masters (Twitchell's imagination

      and con). Eckists really need to read more!



      Except, Klemp does the chicken/egg switch around.

      Everything is of SPIRIT (ECK, trademark) and this has

      always existed. Therefore, even if a NON-EK Master

      (in the past) said something relevant or insightful HK

      can still claim it as having come from the ECK Masters!

      Look at the voyage of Columbus! EK Master Fubbi gave

      Columbus the idea that Europe needed "protein" and

      EK Master Rebazar was even onboard to guide Columbus

      to the Americas (not the U.S. however). But, Klemp

      never gives an explanation for the repercussions of

      these visits by Governor Columbus. Klemp never mentions

      the Negative results that Fubbi and Rebazar were involved

      with! Klemp tries to have it his way, once again, without

      taking responsibility or showing the Bigger Picture! Besides,

      Europe had even more sources for "protein" than the

      Americas did. The Americas didn't have the domesticated

      meat sources for one thing!



      Anyway, as I said in the beginning of these comments,

      people feel "special" and "safer" in small group settings

      and that's one reason why these cults have become more

      attractive by many spiritual seekers.



      Prometheus



      Hello, Nancy!



      Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your

      "Christian cult" experience. It also gives warning to tho
      se

      leaving one spiritual/religious group (like Eckankar) to watch

      out. So often when a person abandons one, he or she is eager

      to find something else to fill the void. There is danger in

      being duped and conned again.



      I think it is just evil to take over a person's life like these

      cults do. Belief is what people search for, something to

      hold onto, in figuring out what life and being is all about.

      For me, I believe in the importance of believing in oneself!

      When others take over and control a person, that belief in

      self is muddled and confused and basically lost.



      I'm glad you removed yourself from that group. It was very

      interesting to read what you wrote!



      Best regards,

      Mish



      nancy brunelle lonwakome wrote:

      >

      > Hello Again -

      > I was in what I would consider a local cult. The
      leader/instigator/perpetrator

      was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience began
      channeling

      material from someone named Phoebe who lived back in the day of the
      mystery

      religions in ancient Greece. It was all very secretive, and I was led
      to it

      through a friend. I made the mistake of confiding to her that I was
      having out

      of body experiences, and one of the experiences I described supposedly
      involved

      the entity who was doing the channeling for the group. The group was for0D

      Christian women, who were the leaders, but in reality the pastor had
      control, as

      he was the one who would receive the "messages" from Phoebe. There were
      levels

      of "advancement" that were controlled by Phoebe, and the pastor, and
      the elder

      sisters in the group. I was considered to have a great spiritual gift,
      but

      first I had to meet all the qualifications and be advanced. Ironically,
      one of

      the first requirements for me was that I cease all unauthorized out of
      body

      travel.

      (are you getting the picture here?) It was all about control, control,
      CONTROL,

      and if I was allowed to communicate with Phoebe directly, I would know
      all the

      "secrets" - which could be very dangerous if the "enemy" got a hold of
      them!!!

      The Enemy were those spirits out in the ethers who were bent on
      destroying the

      work that Phoebe was trying to accomplish here on Earth, you see....



      > Needless to say, the originator of the group saw nothing positive
      in me,

      and blocked my advancement every chance he got. He never figured out
      that

      he really had nothing to fear from me - I wasn't out to expose him, and
      I let

      him know that on several occasions, but that only fueled his distaste.
      I just

      wanted to share the teachings, and deepen my own spirituality. I had
      little

      use for all the trappings and the mind games. That was anoth
      er thing
      that

      he used against me to question whether I was a true sister, truly
      called to the

      mission of the order. Loyalty was measured in terms of obedience - and
      I was

      happy to be obedient to God. Just not the humans who were trying to
      dictate

      what I should and should not know based on my obedience to THEM..

      So I was usually one who asked a lot of annoying questions when a
      concept

      was given or an order came forth. Suffice it to say there were a lot of
      fear

      tactics used to keep us all in line.



      > There's more that I could say, but that's the basics.



      > I actually came accross Eckankar while I was in the order, but any
      association

      with it was strictly forbidden. I thought that Eck people were all these

      wonderful people who were going out of body doing spiritual work in what

      we used to call "the half-world". That was my cult's name for the place
      where

      people go when thay are not quite ready for the next plane of
      existance. It's

      got ghosts, and people who are still emotionally tied to people here on
      earth,

      or people who don't realize they have died, can't find the light, etc.
      Souls who

      are "stuck" for various reasons. So I decided to look Eckankar up again
      after

      all these years, but I came across your survivor site. Since I consider
      myself

      a cult survivor as well, I=2
      0wanted to learn about you, and share what I
      also

      experienced with others.



      > Speaking of learning, I want to say that I did learn a lot from
      all the

      responses to my "Dead Horse" post. I can see that I was way off the
      mark.

      I see that the reasons you keep up the commentary on these people is not

      because you are "stuck" in it - I now understand the service you are
      providing

      for others so that they can begin to, or continue to question, and so
      that they

      have a place to go when they want to make the leap to get out. Thanks
      to all

      who hung in there with me on this and were patient while I figured it
      out.



      > Peace,

      > Lonwakome aka nancy

      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab, This is interesting as is reading about the Tao. But, I m familiar with this path and, once again, one (Soul) needs to become their own
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 14, 2009
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        Hello Etznab,
        This is interesting as is reading about the Tao.
        But, I'm familiar with this "path" and, once again,
        one (Soul) needs to become their own teacher.
        And, if people are not peer (Soul = Soul) then
        it all just becomes another religion with an "expert"
        in charge.

        Speaking of Klemp... I saw that in Mexico a man,
        Jesus Malverde, is worshipped because he helped
        the poor (like Robin Hood). There are even miracles
        attributed to him and he provides "protection" for
        the drug dealers. He is called the Narco Saint.

        What "Miracles" are attributed to Klemp? And who
        has HK "protected?" I know that he didn't perform
        any Miracles or offer Protection to those H.I.s who
        have died from Cancer in the last couple of years.

        I'll add the Church of the Churchless to the LINKS.

        Prometheus



        etznab wrote:
        >
        >
        > Have you included this site in your links section?

        http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/

        *******************************************************

        *BTW Etznab, here's another article (below) with
        a different perspective that addresses the above one
        that you listed. IMO- One can play golf, ride a bike, etc.
        and experience the same "spiritual" benefits as with
        Tai Chi or with the Qi. This would be the true Tao...
        which is individual.

        http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2009/07/tai-chi-doesnt-have-much-to-do-with-qi.html

        ********************************************************

        I came across it the other day. It reads a lot like
        E.S.A., only the members are from another group.
        >
        > The archive section begins here:
        >
        http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html
        >
        > Etznab

        >
        > Hello Nancy and All,
        >
        > Eckankar members see things somewhat differently,
        >
        > from your former cult experience, and, of course,
        >
        > Eckists use different terminology and jargon. However,
        >
        > the more objective viewer, via standing back from it all,
        >
        > sees that it is all just another "mind trick" of religion.
        >
        >
        >
        > The Eckankar teachings of Twitchell and the current
        >
        > leader, Rev. Klemp, teach that orthodox religion fails
        >
        > to satisfy the spiritual thirst of Truth/Spiritual Seekers,
        >
        > and, thus, they come to Eckankar and other cult groups.
        >
        >
        >
        > It is more than likely, however, that many people simply
        >
        > need the personal touch, a connection with others, and
        >
        > the attention that small groups and small groups (churches)
        >
        > can give. It's more "hands on" and personal where people
        >
        > can feel important, needed, and listened to.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > In other words, these small religious groups (cults), like
        >
        > Eckankar, fulfill the human and social need of "belonging"
        >
        > that the big orthodox religious cults are incapable of providing.
        >
        > Besides, many Eckists (isolated cultists) tend to be misfits
        >
        > of sorts, free thinkers, and skeptics. Yet, they are lulled in
        >
        > with interesting and unusual concepts and perspectives
        >
        > of life and of "death."
        >
        >
        >
        > It's interesting that the EK teachings state that Eckankar
        >
        > will be a World-Wide Religion known by all people. After
        >
        > 28 years, with Klemp in-charge, how close are they?
        >
        > BTW- In a past World-Wide Census over 500,000 people
        >
        > listed "Jedi" as their religion! And, Eckankar has how many
        >
        > members... 50,000 maybe? This is an old number too! For
        >
        > some reason this member count, too, is a secret.
        >
        >
        >
        > There are actually FOUR (not three) Keys or Precepts to
        >
        > Eckankar that every Eckist is well aware of. They are as follows:
        >
        >
        >
        > The FOUR S's-
        >
        >
        >
        > 1. Secrecy
        >
        > 2. Silence
        >
        > 3. Surrender
        >
        > 4. Service
        >
        >
        >
        > The "Secrecy" involves not repeating or sharing information
        >
        > with others. Now, this just isn't with "spiritual" secrets
        >
        > that can "burn" another... it's, especially, with how the
        >
        > "business" of Eckankar is run! It has to do more with
        >
        > money and what people like HK, JK, and PS are paid and
        >
        > with the property (and bank accounts, stocks, etc.) that
        >
        > they (and Eckankar) own.
        >
        >
        >
        > Keeping "Silent," by following the Law of Silence, is key
        >
        > to being a "follower." It has a two-fold purpose in that
        >
        > the follower or believer (Eckist) feels that they are doing
        >
        > right (loyalty) and are demonstrating discipline. Klemp
        >
        > benefits because this is a control tactic that other religions
        >
        > and secret groups have used, over time, to manipulate
        >
        > their followers.
        >
        >
        >
        > "Surrender" means giving one's WILL over to another.
        >
        > It means that one (the follower) is to stop thinking about
        >
        > and analyzing Klemp's words beyond their one-dimensional
        >
        > content. It means stop questioning anything that is written
        >
        > by and approved by the leader (Klemp). And, the true
        >
        > (brain-washed) believer "knows" (second guesses) the
        >
        > LEM/Mahanta as to what is NOT to be to be said or repeated
        >
        > without it being spelled out in writing as a Spoken, (or
        >
        > Unspoken), Rule, Zoa, or Guideline!
        >
        >
        >
        > "Service" (in Eckankar) is KEY on many levels. One must
        >
        > be a "current" member in order to "Serve," and that means
        >
        > paying for that Annual Membership. Of course, donating
        >
        > time (to bring in new customers/members) and money
        >
        > (for materials) comes with this. It is said that one must
        >
        > have "outflow" in order to have "inflow." This "spiritual"
        >
        > concept, however, is not unique to Eckankar, although,
        >
        > many Eckists think it is entirely (EK) Divine Wisdom passed
        >
        > down from the "lineage" of Eck Masters (Twitchell's imagination
        >
        > and con). Eckists really need to read more!
        >
        >
        >
        > Except, Klemp does the chicken/egg switch around.
        >
        > Everything is of SPIRIT (ECK, trademark) and this has
        >
        > always existed. Therefore, even if a NON-EK Master
        >
        > (in the past) said something relevant or insightful HK
        >
        > can still claim it as having come from the ECK Masters!
        >
        > Look at the voyage of Columbus! EK Master Fubbi gave
        >
        > Columbus the idea that Europe needed "protein" and
        >
        > EK Master Rebazar was even onboard to guide Columbus
        >
        > to the Americas (not the U.S. however). But, Klemp
        >
        > never gives an explanation for the repercussions of
        >
        > these visits by Governor Columbus. Klemp never mentions
        >
        > the Negative results that Fubbi and Rebazar were involved
        >
        > with! Klemp tries to have it his way, once again, without
        >
        > taking responsibility or showing the Bigger Picture! Besides,
        >
        > Europe had even more sources for "protein" than the
        >
        > Americas did. The Americas didn't have the domesticated
        >
        > meat sources for one thing!
        >
        >
        >
        > Anyway, as I said in the beginning of these comments,
        >
        > people feel "special" and "safer" in small group settings
        >
        > and that's one reason why these cults have become more
        >
        > attractive by many spiritual seekers.
        >
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, I found more interesting info on this site about the origination of the ECKankar Teachings. Radha Soami Satsang Beas was founded by
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 15, 2009
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          Hello Etznab and All,
          I found more interesting info on this site about
          the origination of the ECKankar Teachings. Radha
          Soami Satsang Beas was founded by Kirpal Singh's
          Master [Kirpal was Paul Twitchell's real Master (aka
          Sudar Singh, Rebazar Tarzs) from 1955-1965].
          Kirpal split from Radha Soami and founded Ruhani
          Satsang and died (age 80) three years after Twitchell
          (age 63) in 1974.

          http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html

          From the Church of the Churchless:

          We all want to belong.

          The Church of the Churchless welcomes those who
          feel like they don't belong, even if they are members
          of an organized religion or spiritual faith.

          You can be a member and not belong. You can sit
          through a communal service, sermon, celebration,
          or cermony, and still say to yourself: I don't belong
          here. You are going through the outward motions
          of what it means to be a member, but deep down you
          know that somewhere else is your real spiritual home.

          A lot of people feel this way. No one is alone in feeling
          alone. The big questions we all need to ask are:

          What am I missing?

          And: Can any organization give it to me?

          Every person has to come to grips with these questions
          by himself or herself. That said, here are my own pithy
          answers:

          Reality and No.

          By "reality," I mean a direct experience of what is really,
          really, real--what lasts when everything else passes away.
          Let's call this "God" for lack of a better term.

          If I am to experience God, where will this occur?

          Where every other experience of mine occurs:
          in my consciousness. The same is true for you,
          and for every other person on Earth.

          Nothing is real for us except what we consciously experience.

          A religious organization provides experiences of--
          no surprise here--a religious organization.

          What else would we expect?

          Well, many people illogically believe that an experience
          of something that isn't God can substitute for the real
          thing. It can't. God is God. Ultimate reality is ultimate
          reality.

          Everything else is everything else.

          So if you want to truly belong to God, to reality, you
          can't belong to anything else. For that thing will water
          down your experience of God to a greater or lesser
          degree. Usually greater, because our natural tendency
          is to cling tightly to the familiar rather than embrace
          mystery. And God is the ultimate Mystery.

          Bottom line: you can join the Church of the Churchless.

          Even more: you must join the Church of the Churchless
          if you want to know God.

          But this joining is wholly within you, not without.
          There are no application forms to fill out, no dues
          to be paid, no initiation ceremonies to be gone through.

          You are the Church of the Churchless. So am I.
          And so is everyone who wants to experience reality
          rather than religion, truth rather than dogma, substance
          rather than shadows.

          Each of us must make a choice. You or I can say,
          "I am a Christian," "I am a Muslim," "I am a Buddhist,"
          "I am a Hindu," "I am a Wiccan," "I am a Taoist," or whatever
          other faith [Eckankar] we subscribe to at the moment.

          The other option is to simply say with conviction, "I am."
          Do that, and you have joined the Church of the Churchless.
          Welcome. You belong. We have a lot to share.
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