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Anger Comments and Going Postal

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  • nancy brunelle
    Interesting comments about anger - and I gotta tell you, it isn t just the ecks that use that I see that you re angry... line, or some derivative thereof.
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 13, 2009
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      Interesting comments about anger - and I gotta tell you, it isn't just the ecks that use that "I see that you're angry..." line, or some derivative thereof. And it's always said in this syrupy sweet, smug little tone that lets you know that they can get as angry as you are - they just managed to control it this time. I would love to figure out a good comeback to it. Mostly I just look that person straight in the eye and say "yup, I am - so watch out!"
      On the postal story - that's a funny one. The wife held onto her negative feelings long enough for the moral lesson about not holding on to bad feelings.  The whole Eck way of managinge feelings seems very Victorian to me. Let's supress all that "bad stuff" so it comes out as an obsession instead! And then we can preach about it all the time. Makes for a lot of imbalance when there is no up and down, ebb and flow, etc..  I think a lot of people are afraid to get angry becaues they might "do something" - but whoever said that anger is very normal was onto something. I think sometimes anger can result in something productive even. Or healing.
      I still scratch my head - why would anyone want to make a career out of taking responsibility for another's spiritual welfare. After all - we are ALL on the journey that is earth. It's a lesson for all of us whether you are only a number 9 or your a big-shot 14 (how high do the numbers go anyway?!). That's just a lot of Eck silliness if you ask me.  (and you didn't!)
      Lonwakome
    • prometheus_973
      Hello lonwakome and All, I agree, that with anger, it s better to blow off some steam, at times, than to suppress it and hold it all in for it to fester and
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 23, 2009
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        Hello lonwakome and All,
        I agree, that with anger, it's better to blow off
        some steam, at times, than to suppress it and
        hold it all in for it to fester and grow. Anger
        will reappear, in other ways, when it is not
        dealt with and released/expressed properly.

        Yes, the postal story is funny when a 9th and
        a 14th can't see the truth behind their own
        words. It just goes to show how unenlightened,
        dishonest and unspiritual people can be when
        perpetrating a hoax (Eckankar).

        Making a career out of being a big shot religious
        leader (M/LEM) isn't so bad if you can half believe
        it yourself. Its big money, prestige, lots of vacation/
        down-time, and other perks like great health care.
        And, the hypocrite doesn't get the negative celebrity
        press (as long as he doesn't get caught with his pants
        down). Even then, it probably wouldn't get any free
        press... a Vahana Team would have to pay for it!
        Klemp is a small fish in a big pond outside of his
        little cult. HK's isolated himself so much that no
        one really knows (or cares) where he is or what
        he's doing most of the time.

        As for those phony initiations... well, HK claims to
        be a 14th (his word only) but then hints at many more.
        We know that Darwin gave Klemp the 12th but after
        that we only have the word of a guy that was once locked
        up in a Mental Institution and, by his own words, "learned
        how to play the game" in order to be released early!
        Maybe there are 33 initiations like with the Free Masons.

        And yes, even though I didn't ask, I agree that it is
        a bunch of silliness. All that the EK initiations really
        do is separate people (Eckists) from one another while
        inflating their egos.

        Prometheus

        lonwakome wrote:

        Interesting comments about anger - and I gotta tell you,
        it isn't just the ecks that use that "I see that you're angry..."
        line, or some derivative thereof. And it's always said in this
        syrupy sweet, smug little tone that lets you know that they
        can get as angry as you are - they just managed to control
        it this time. I would love to figure out a good comeback to it.
        Mostly I just look that person straight in the eye and say "yup,
        I am - so watch out!"

        On the postal story - that's a funny one. The wife held onto
        her negative feelings long enough for the moral lesson about
        not holding on to bad feelings. The whole Eck way of managing
        feelings seems very Victorian to me. Let's supress all that "bad
        stuff" so it comes out as an obsession instead! And then we can
        preach about it all the time. Makes for a lot of imbalance when
        there is no up and down, ebb and flow, etc.. I think a lot of people
        are afraid to get angry becaues they might "do something" -
        but whoever said that anger is very normal was onto something.
        I think sometimes anger can result in something productive even.
        Or healing.

        I still scratch my head - why would anyone want to make a career
        out of taking responsibility for another's spiritual welfare. After all -
        we are ALL on the journey that is earth. It's a lesson for all of us
        whether you are only a number 9 or your a big-shot 14 (how high
        do the numbers go anyway?!). That's just a lot of Eck silliness if
        you ask me. (and you didn't!)
        Lonwakome
      • paulji_teen
        Regarding the comeback about some HI, or other person telling you that they can see that you are angry. Smug smile, or none, who about a simple, thank you
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 24, 2009
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          Regarding the "comeback" about some HI, or other person telling you that they can 'see that you are angry.'

          Smug smile, or none, who about a simple, "thank you for acknowledging that I am choosing to show anger to you to get my point across..." (etc.) (said sincerely - or likely the situation will just escalate)

          Two points:

          1. Anger can be mocked up and used as tool. It's commonly done. In the Eck writings somewhere it is talked about, as well. But think of parenting - how many times to parents get "angry" at their kid - only to years later bring it up to someone else and they now find whatever happened was "cute", or "memorable", and in worst case scenario would give anything to have their child who 'never writes or calls home now' or maybe who has crossed over - do 'that one thing again' - so they could enjoy a do-over, or experience their child again, in front of them.

          2. In communication skill-building classes, it is common to teach someone to do effective listening and to "acknowledge" the other person's state of emotion so that they feel heard.

          I will add a #3 - basic in selling techniques - whoever is asking the questions, controls the conversation direction. Responding with a question may also 'work here'.

          "I can see that you are angry."

          Response: "Thank you. Just so I know that you are really seeing / hearing my point(s) - can you summarize back to me 'why you think I am angry'?

          "Then I will know whether I need to explain further, or we can move on to a solution." (or - if they are angry, too, say something like - "I'll be able to understand your feelings or position better if you can tell me that you do see my point(s) - I'm not necessarily looking for agreement you deserve to have your points heard, too - just that you understand where I am coming from - so we can meet somewhere in the middle for a solution."

          (If the person won't do it - it is usually because they are blowing you off.)

          [Hopefully, we are not talking about a spouse situation -- then I more the fan of saying 'thank you' and 'I need to take a time out to get my thoughts together and we can talk about this later when we both are calmer.(avoid fights and things escalating to words being said that are hard to take back later.]

          While I have seen some frustrating, exasperating, button pushing behavior by some Eckists, including HIs, my hope is that all of them didn't set out intentionally to be jerks or be that self-absorbed or power hungry as their behavior landed.

          One "anger" story for you --
          Years ago as an Eck newsletter editor, the HI overseeing what we were putting out was, in my opinion and that of others, a perfectionist, and monumental button-pusher.

          The newsletter had lost editor after editor with this HI being the approving HI, when I took it on trying to create my version of an Eck "master piece". (some people today might remember it nationwide, as EIO liked it a lot). So, admittedly, I was coming from Soul, but my little ego was also doing its dance about how great it was, quietly of course. I was also happy (maybe quietly a little smug?) that I thought I was successfully dealing with every monthly attempt by the HI to seemingly undermine the newsletter getting out on time with last minute requests for changes to wording, sometimes layout. I just did what was asked.

          However, one day with an hour to get it to the printer and back to mail out, and facing a weekend, the HI showed up and decided that whole newsletter needed re-laying out AND definitely a line or two of the CLIP ART needed to be changed to be more "spiritual". We were talking about a very simple line drawing done by an Eckist and run past other HIs, and other Eckists, so that drawing was "fine" (measuring about 1" x 2"). She wanted two less lines in the "sun". But the artist wasn't me, the art was copyrighted, so getting the artist back to make a change, would create a serious delay and I 'lost it'.

          I told the HI why this wasn't a reasonable request, and ultimately the paper went to the printer, and out on time, but not without the HI copping an attitude and asking publicly that I resign as editor (it was messy and so I did). But I am admitting that I 'lost my temper' (which I like never do) because almost 20 years later I still think about this conversation...

          The HI was diagnosed with a brain tumor very shortly after this happened. Surgery happened and the HI lived. At the time I moved from that city, post the HI's surgery, that HI was one of the nicest people you could ever know.

          So now when someone is pushing my buttons, I can't help but think - maybe something else is going on with this person - in their family, with them, someone they care about...and I am even more so today, ready to cut that person some slack.

          Signing off..

          Paulji_Teen


          > Interesting comments about anger - and I gotta tell you,
          > it isn't just the ecks that use that "I see that you're angry..."
          > line, or some derivative thereof. And it's always said in this
          > syrupy sweet, smug little tone that lets you know that they
          > can get as angry as you are - they just managed to control
          > it this time. I would love to figure out a good comeback to it.
          > Mostly I just look that person straight in the eye and say "yup,
          > I am - so watch out!"
          >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Paulji teen and All, Interesting comments. I recall an EK story of PT mocking-up anger. It was, supposedly, used as a teaching technique (I think),
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 24, 2009
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            Hello Paulji teen and All,
            Interesting comments. I recall an EK story of PT
            "mocking-up" anger. It was, supposedly, used
            as a "teaching" technique (I think), and to get
            a point across, or to communicate on the same
            (lower) level of consciousness as the "angry"
            person that one's having the encounter with.
            I don't really buy into the story that people
            supposedly "mock-up" or "pretend" to be angry.
            I think that when using the 20/20 hindsight
            PR approach that one (a LEM) attempts to
            mitigate the circumstances of a negative event
            via a damage control spin or ekplanation of
            what really happened. Now, to be honest, I have
            "toned down" and controlled my initial outburst
            of anger by recalling that story and using this
            "mock-up" technique. I placed attention upon
            my (the) anger, and looked at it and myself
            from a different and more detached perspective
            (consciousness), thus, controlling it. This, then,
            allowed me to still use some anger (to a degree)
            in order to get my point across (only a partial
            clearing of the air... the initial anger still lingered).
            However, I'm not so sure that using this technique
            to control, yet still use, some of that initial anger
            as a "mock-up" was the right thing to do, or
            to project into the ethers. I really don't believe
            that total detachment (or higher consciousness)
            is being achieved when the other person was being
            affected. Actually, the more that I think about it
            this "mocked-up" anger technique sounds like
            one of PT's Psychic control techniques (mentioned
            in Letters to Gail 3). Thus, it seems to be more
            of a form of Black Magic and, thus, has karma
            attached to it. [More comments below]


            paulji_teen wrote:

            Regarding the "comeback" about some HI, or other
            person telling you that they can 'see that you are angry.'

            Smug smile, or none, who about a simple, "thank you
            for acknowledging that I am choosing to show anger
            to you to get my point across..." (etc.) (said sincerely
            - or likely the situation will just escalate)

            Two points:

            1. Anger can be mocked up and used as tool. It's
            commonly done. In the Eck writings somewhere it
            is talked about, as well. But think of parenting -
            how many times to parents get "angry" at their kid -
            only to years later bring it up to someone else and
            they now find whatever happened was "cute", or
            "memorable", and in worst case scenario would
            give anything to have their child who 'never writes
            or calls home now' or maybe who has crossed over -
            do 'that one thing again' - so they could enjoy a do-
            over, or experience their child again, in front of them.

            2. In communication skill-building classes, it is
            common to teach someone to do effective listening
            and to "acknowledge" the other person's state of
            emotion so that they feel heard.

            I will add a #3 - basic in selling techniques -
            whoever is asking the questions, controls the
            conversation direction. Responding with a question
            may also 'work here'.

            "I can see that you are angry."

            Response: "Thank you. Just so I know that you
            are really seeing / hearing my point(s) - can you
            summarize back to me 'why you think I am angry'?

            "Then I will know whether I need to explain further,
            or we can move on to a solution." (or - if they are
            angry, too, say something like - "I'll be able to
            understand your feelings or position better if you
            can tell me that you do see my point(s) - I'm not
            necessarily looking for agreement you deserve to
            have your points heard, too - just that you understand
            where I am coming from - so we can meet somewhere
            in the middle for a solution."

            (If the person won't do it - it is usually because
            they are blowing you off.)

            [Hopefully, we are not talking about a spouse situation --
            then I more the fan of saying 'thank you' and 'I need
            to take a time out to get my thoughts together and
            we can talk about this later when we both are calmer
            (avoid fights and things escalating to words being said
            that are hard to take back later.]

            While I have seen some frustrating, exasperating, button
            pushing behavior by some Eckists, including HIs, my
            hope is that all of them didn't set out intentionally to
            be jerks or be that self-absorbed or power hungry as
            their behavior landed.

            One "anger" story for you --
            Years ago as an Eck newsletter editor, the HI overseeing
            what we were putting out was, in my opinion and that
            of others, a perfectionist, and monumental button-pusher.

            The newsletter had lost editor after editor with this HI
            being the approving HI, when I took it on trying to create
            my version of an Eck "master piece". (some people today
            might remember it nationwide, as EIO liked it a lot). So,
            admittedly, I was coming from Soul, but my little ego
            was also doing its dance about how great it was, quietly
            of course. I was also happy (maybe quietly a little smug?)
            that I thought I was successfully dealing with every monthly
            attempt by the HI to seemingly undermine the newsletter
            getting out on time with last minute requests for changes
            to wording, sometimes layout. I just did what was asked.


            ***
            Prometheus- What was the RESA doing? Nothing it seems!
            The RESA needed to have some training (for chelas) on the
            Newsletter Guidelines, or have chelas become more aware
            that ESC procedures & copyright policies needed to be followed.
            Also, chelas tend to drag their feet on getting things in on
            time and meeting dead lines (goal lines). Notice that I mentioned
            "goal lines." This is the more "positive" term that is substituted
            in EK Leadership Training classes... but, its all a facade!
            Editor after editor should not have been quitting. Sometimes
            one just has to let the newsletter go out as is (as long as the
            dates and phone numbers and addresses are correct) and
            tweak the art work, etc. in the next pub. Oh well, this happens
            when everyone is a volunteer and are learning new skills.
            Sometimes this stuff (PR Guidelines) is just taken a little
            too seriously. Yet, I can see where Eckankar wants uniformity
            and to have all chelas to be "on the same page." Except,
            Eckankar, is supposed to be an "individual path" too!
            It's hard, for Klemp, to get these "individuals" (Souls)
            to march to the same drumbeat. But should they?
            Catch-22 again!
            ***


            However, one day with an hour to get it to the printer
            and back to mail out, and facing a weekend, the HI
            showed up and decided that whole newsletter needed
            re-laying out AND definitely a line or two of the CLIP
            ART needed to be changed to be more "spiritual". We
            were talking about a very simple line drawing done by
            an Eckist and run past other HIs, and other Eckists, so
            that drawing was "fine" (measuring about 1" x 2"). She
            wanted two less lines in the "sun". But the artist wasn't
            me, the art was copyrighted, so getting the artist back
            to make a change, would create a serious delay and I 'lost it'.

            I told the HI why this wasn't a reasonable request,
            and ultimately the paper went to the printer, and
            out on time, but not without the HI copping an attitude
            and asking publicly that I resign as editor (it was messy
            and so I did). But I am admitting that I 'lost my temper'
            (which I like never do) because almost 20 years later
            I still think about this conversation...

            The HI was diagnosed with a brain tumor very shortly
            after this happened. Surgery happened and the HI lived.
            At the time I moved from that city, post the HI's surgery,
            that HI was one of the nicest people you could ever know.



            ***
            P- Well, one can become too forgiving too. Even though
            negative actions/reactions can be caused by a brain tumors
            or by liver disease, or some other physical or mental factors,
            one still needs to protect oneself from being attacked.
            Loving pets can become rabid dogs. Do mean spirited
            people or criminals need brain surgery to make them
            more caring, responsible, and loving? Maybe! What was
            this person like years before the brain tumor caused
            the problems with their behaviour? What is the cause
            of Klemp's nasty attitude, narcissism, and deceit... EMR/
            EMF, arrested development, or is it due to his under
            developed consciousness? Should we cut him some
            slack? I don't think so! See! I really can't do an across-
            the-board forgiveness, or over-look the harmful results
            that have occurred. I would need to know more information
            about that person, and if they could see and, then, admit
            to their negativity, take responsibility, and want to atone
            for it.
            ***



            So now when someone is pushing my buttons, I can't
            help but think - maybe something else is going on with
            this person - in their family, with them, someone they care
            about...and I am even more so today, ready to cut that person
            some slack.

            Signing off..

            Paulji_Teen


            > Interesting comments about anger - and I gotta tell you,
            > it isn't just the ecks that use that "I see that you're angry..."
            > line, or some derivative thereof. And it's always said in this
            > syrupy sweet, smug little tone that lets you know that they
            > can get as angry as you are - they just managed to control
            > it this time. I would love to figure out a good comeback to it.
            > Mostly I just look that person straight in the eye and say "yup,
            > I am - so watch out!"
          • mishmisha9
            This is a very good write up about anger--enjoyed it very much. As for cutting people slack for showing anger, well, yes, that is very nice. However, your
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 1, 2009
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              This is a very good write up about anger--enjoyed it
              very much. As for cutting people slack for showing
              anger, well, yes, that is very nice. However, your
              experience with the H.I. over the newsletter editing
              really had to be so trying and I don't think you need
              to feel badly that you showed your anger. I mean what
              could you have done differently and make the deadline?
              Perhaps, the surgery for the brain tumor altered this
              person's behaviour . . . and maybe it was necessary,
              kind and true??? : )

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "paulji_teen" <tigeroverflow@...> wrote:
              >
              > Regarding the "comeback" about some HI, or other person telling you that they can 'see that you are angry.'
              >
              > Smug smile, or none, who about a simple, "thank you for acknowledging that I am choosing to show anger to you to get my point across..." (etc.) (said sincerely - or likely the situation will just escalate)
              >
              > Two points:
              >
              > 1. Anger can be mocked up and used as tool. It's commonly done. In the Eck writings somewhere it is talked about, as well. But think of parenting - how many times to parents get "angry" at their kid - only to years later bring it up to someone else and they now find whatever happened was "cute", or "memorable", and in worst case scenario would give anything to have their child who 'never writes or calls home now' or maybe who has crossed over - do 'that one thing again' - so they could enjoy a do-over, or experience their child again, in front of them.
              >
              > 2. In communication skill-building classes, it is common to teach someone to do effective listening and to "acknowledge" the other person's state of emotion so that they feel heard.
              >
              > I will add a #3 - basic in selling techniques - whoever is asking the questions, controls the conversation direction. Responding with a question may also 'work here'.
              >
              > "I can see that you are angry."
              >
              > Response: "Thank you. Just so I know that you are really seeing / hearing my point(s) - can you summarize back to me 'why you think I am angry'?
              >
              > "Then I will know whether I need to explain further, or we can move on to a solution." (or - if they are angry, too, say something like - "I'll be able to understand your feelings or position better if you can tell me that you do see my point(s) - I'm not necessarily looking for agreement you deserve to have your points heard, too - just that you understand where I am coming from - so we can meet somewhere in the middle for a solution."
              >
              > (If the person won't do it - it is usually because they are blowing you off.)
              >
              > [Hopefully, we are not talking about a spouse situation -- then I more the fan of saying 'thank you' and 'I need to take a time out to get my thoughts together and we can talk about this later when we both are calmer.(avoid fights and things escalating to words being said that are hard to take back later.]
              >
              > While I have seen some frustrating, exasperating, button pushing behavior by some Eckists, including HIs, my hope is that all of them didn't set out intentionally to be jerks or be that self-absorbed or power hungry as their behavior landed.
              >
              > One "anger" story for you --
              > Years ago as an Eck newsletter editor, the HI overseeing what we were putting out was, in my opinion and that of others, a perfectionist, and monumental button-pusher.
              >
              > The newsletter had lost editor after editor with this HI being the approving HI, when I took it on trying to create my version of an Eck "master piece". (some people today might remember it nationwide, as EIO liked it a lot). So, admittedly, I was coming from Soul, but my little ego was also doing its dance about how great it was, quietly of course. I was also happy (maybe quietly a little smug?) that I thought I was successfully dealing with every monthly attempt by the HI to seemingly undermine the newsletter getting out on time with last minute requests for changes to wording, sometimes layout. I just did what was asked.
              >
              > However, one day with an hour to get it to the printer and back to mail out, and facing a weekend, the HI showed up and decided that whole newsletter needed re-laying out AND definitely a line or two of the CLIP ART needed to be changed to be more "spiritual". We were talking about a very simple line drawing done by an Eckist and run past other HIs, and other Eckists, so that drawing was "fine" (measuring about 1" x 2"). She wanted two less lines in the "sun". But the artist wasn't me, the art was copyrighted, so getting the artist back to make a change, would create a serious delay and I 'lost it'.
              >
              > I told the HI why this wasn't a reasonable request, and ultimately the paper went to the printer, and out on time, but not without the HI copping an attitude and asking publicly that I resign as editor (it was messy and so I did). But I am admitting that I 'lost my temper' (which I like never do) because almost 20 years later I still think about this conversation...
              >
              > The HI was diagnosed with a brain tumor very shortly after this happened. Surgery happened and the HI lived. At the time I moved from that city, post the HI's surgery, that HI was one of the nicest people you could ever know.
              >
              > So now when someone is pushing my buttons, I can't help but think - maybe something else is going on with this person - in their family, with them, someone they care about...and I am even more so today, ready to cut that person some slack.
              >
              > Signing off..
              >
              > Paulji_Teen
              >
              >
              > > Interesting comments about anger - and I gotta tell you,
              > > it isn't just the ecks that use that "I see that you're angry..."
              > > line, or some derivative thereof. And it's always said in this
              > > syrupy sweet, smug little tone that lets you know that they
              > > can get as angry as you are - they just managed to control
              > > it this time. I would love to figure out a good comeback to it.
              > > Mostly I just look that person straight in the eye and say "yup,
              > > I am - so watch out!"
              > >
              > >
              >
            • paulji_teen
              Starting to look into some of the links posted. About 40 years later, I am looking at the Letters to Gail 3 - having forgotten a lot of wording that Paul
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 2, 2009
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                Starting to look into some of the links posted. About 40 years later, I am looking at the Letters to Gail 3 - having forgotten a lot of wording that Paul used...with today's eyes, I think I know 'why' HK and IWP didn't print it. Just into the first letter posted on:
                http://pub32.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?usernum=2719877602#bn-photocenter-1-1-2719877602/20022/1/64333/

                it is "very racist". Paul speaks as a man from Kentucky of the generation in which he lived. The question for EIO / HK would be to edit it or ???? Sometimes there may just be good reasons for 'shelving manuscripts'.

                The first letter he is on a bizarre rant about "South Pacific" and "Oklahoma"....weird....

                For sure, this forum is demystifying Eckankar....



                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > This is a very good write up about anger--enjoyed it
                > very much. As for cutting people slack for showing
                > anger, well, yes, that is very nice. However, your
                > experience with the H.I. over the newsletter editing
                > really had to be so trying and I don't think you need
                > to feel badly that you showed your anger. I mean what
                > could you have done differently and make the deadline?
                > Perhaps, the surgery for the brain tumor altered this
                > person's behaviour . . . and maybe it was necessary,
                > kind and true??? : )
                >
                > Mish
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "paulji_teen" <tigeroverflow@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Regarding the "comeback" about some HI, or other person telling you that they can 'see that you are angry.'
                > >
                > > Smug smile, or none, who about a simple, "thank you for acknowledging that I am choosing to show anger to you to get my point across..." (etc.) (said sincerely - or likely the situation will just escalate)
                > >
                > > Two points:
                > >
                > > 1. Anger can be mocked up and used as tool. It's commonly done. In the Eck writings somewhere it is talked about, as well. But think of parenting - how many times to parents get "angry" at their kid - only to years later bring it up to someone else and they now find whatever happened was "cute", or "memorable", and in worst case scenario would give anything to have their child who 'never writes or calls home now' or maybe who has crossed over - do 'that one thing again' - so they could enjoy a do-over, or experience their child again, in front of them.
                > >
                > > 2. In communication skill-building classes, it is common to teach someone to do effective listening and to "acknowledge" the other person's state of emotion so that they feel heard.
                > >
                > > I will add a #3 - basic in selling techniques - whoever is asking the questions, controls the conversation direction. Responding with a question may also 'work here'.
                > >
                > > "I can see that you are angry."
                > >
                > > Response: "Thank you. Just so I know that you are really seeing / hearing my point(s) - can you summarize back to me 'why you think I am angry'?
                > >
                > > "Then I will know whether I need to explain further, or we can move on to a solution." (or - if they are angry, too, say something like - "I'll be able to understand your feelings or position better if you can tell me that you do see my point(s) - I'm not necessarily looking for agreement you deserve to have your points heard, too - just that you understand where I am coming from - so we can meet somewhere in the middle for a solution."
                > >
                > > (If the person won't do it - it is usually because they are blowing you off.)
                > >
                > > [Hopefully, we are not talking about a spouse situation -- then I more the fan of saying 'thank you' and 'I need to take a time out to get my thoughts together and we can talk about this later when we both are calmer.(avoid fights and things escalating to words being said that are hard to take back later.]
                > >
                > > While I have seen some frustrating, exasperating, button pushing behavior by some Eckists, including HIs, my hope is that all of them didn't set out intentionally to be jerks or be that self-absorbed or power hungry as their behavior landed.
                > >
                > > One "anger" story for you --
                > > Years ago as an Eck newsletter editor, the HI overseeing what we were putting out was, in my opinion and that of others, a perfectionist, and monumental button-pusher.
                > >
                > > The newsletter had lost editor after editor with this HI being the approving HI, when I took it on trying to create my version of an Eck "master piece". (some people today might remember it nationwide, as EIO liked it a lot). So, admittedly, I was coming from Soul, but my little ego was also doing its dance about how great it was, quietly of course. I was also happy (maybe quietly a little smug?) that I thought I was successfully dealing with every monthly attempt by the HI to seemingly undermine the newsletter getting out on time with last minute requests for changes to wording, sometimes layout. I just did what was asked.
                > >
                > > However, one day with an hour to get it to the printer and back to mail out, and facing a weekend, the HI showed up and decided that whole newsletter needed re-laying out AND definitely a line or two of the CLIP ART needed to be changed to be more "spiritual". We were talking about a very simple line drawing done by an Eckist and run past other HIs, and other Eckists, so that drawing was "fine" (measuring about 1" x 2"). She wanted two less lines in the "sun". But the artist wasn't me, the art was copyrighted, so getting the artist back to make a change, would create a serious delay and I 'lost it'.
                > >
                > > I told the HI why this wasn't a reasonable request, and ultimately the paper went to the printer, and out on time, but not without the HI copping an attitude and asking publicly that I resign as editor (it was messy and so I did). But I am admitting that I 'lost my temper' (which I like never do) because almost 20 years later I still think about this conversation...
                > >
                > > The HI was diagnosed with a brain tumor very shortly after this happened. Surgery happened and the HI lived. At the time I moved from that city, post the HI's surgery, that HI was one of the nicest people you could ever know.
                > >
                > > So now when someone is pushing my buttons, I can't help but think - maybe something else is going on with this person - in their family, with them, someone they care about...and I am even more so today, ready to cut that person some slack.
                > >
                > > Signing off..
                > >
                > > Paulji_Teen
                > >
                > >
                > > > Interesting comments about anger - and I gotta tell you,
                > > > it isn't just the ecks that use that "I see that you're angry..."
                > > > line, or some derivative thereof. And it's always said in this
                > > > syrupy sweet, smug little tone that lets you know that they
                > > > can get as angry as you are - they just managed to control
                > > > it this time. I would love to figure out a good comeback to it.
                > > > Mostly I just look that person straight in the eye and say "yup,
                > > > I am - so watch out!"
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
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