Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: 09/2003 H.I. Letter and Klemp's Car Karma

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hello Sharon and All, The (Third) Temporary Postal Clerk story is listed in the FILES section, but I ll repost it here for non-ESA (site) members. HK s nasty
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 12, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Sharon and All,
      The (Third) Temporary Postal Clerk story
      is listed in the FILES section, but I'll repost
      it here for non-ESA (site) members.

      HK's nasty and personal comments toward
      this non-EK clerk are interesting because
      neither Joan (a 9th initiate) or himself
      (Harry Klemp, a 14th LEM/Mahanta) are able to
      see beyond their noses! They're hypocrites and
      have no "high" consciousness! Joan mentions
      that there were THREE (temporary) clerks working
      that infamous day, and in Eckankar the "Principle
      of the Threes"is a KEY "Sign" to be noticed... as
      a Spiritual "Wake-Up-Call" where one is to
      "Pay Attention" because there is probably a "test"
      coming down the chute.

      Also, the EK "Law of Economy" is over-looked
      as well. Why should a clerk look for a package
      before seeing one's I.D. and waste his time, and
      the time of other customers, if that person has
      left their I.D. in the car or at home! It's post 9/11!

      As for the Klemp's car karma, or negligence and
      irresponsibility, it seems like he is always putting
      the blame elsewhere. No! It wasn't gossip that
      made the muffler fall off because this happens
      everyday to other irresponsible and oblivious
      car owners who aren't eckists and who don't
      gossip while driving. What is the excuse when
      another car hits you while playing a tape of one
      of Klemp's EK Seminar talks or a HU CD? Yes,
      this has actually happened to H.I.s and chelas
      I know! And, remember the story about Harry
      and Marge driving from Texas to Las Vegas
      in an old overloaded car with NO brakes! How
      stupid and irresponsible was that... overloaded
      and bad brakes! BTW- Weren't his prayers, for
      safety, actually directed to the KAL? It wasn't
      within Sugmad's realm of authority... this lower
      plane car/karma stuff is assigned to KAL (according
      to the Shariyats, the Eckankar Holy Books).

      Here's the copy from the ESA FILES Section (with
      comments) of the Front Page Article of the 09/2003
      H.I. Letter by Harry ("Postal") Klemp. Remember, he
      got this report second-hand from Joan. Please forgive
      me if some of my points have been repeated.


      *******************************************************

      It looks like Klemp also overlooked the EK Principle of
      the Threes, although, HK mentioned (twice) that there
      were THREE fill-ins or temporary postal clerks working
      that infamous day! LOL! I took the liberty to capitalize
      some key words in this account of Klemp's biased hear-
      say story.

      I thought I would refresh some memories with Klemp's
      Third Temporary Postal Clerk story.

      My comments are meant to give other perspectives (balance
      too) and to to address those negative comments made by
      Harold Klemp (spiritual leader of Eckankar) toward a (Third)
      temporary postal clerk that Harold's wife, Joan, had dealings
      with when she went to the Post Office to check on a package.

      When reading HK's comments ask yourself:

      1) Why did Klemp find it necessary to even mention this incident
      in the H.I. Letter? Is he as conscious and thick-skinned like a Rhino?;

      2) Why was HK so emotionally involved with this hearsay account?;

      3) Why was HK so unloving toward this clerk (Soul)?

      4) Why didn't 9th Initiate Joan let go of her anger and frustration
      and Not mention the incident to Harold when she arrived home?
      It had to have been her huge Elephant sized Ego that blinded
      her to the real Truth. After all, she was/ is wrong and of an Astral
      Consciousness for Not seeing the significance of the THREE clerks
      nor understanding the Law of Economy, or the Postal Regulations
      the clerk was following! Harold was/is equally at blame too! Thus,
      he's No Master! This is more proof of the blind leading the blind!

      ***The H.I. Letter - September 2003 [front page article]***

      HK-
      "Joan went to the post office to conduct some business. The THREE
      regular postal clerks were on vacation, and THREE fill-ins were in
      place. Joan asked one clerk, a SURLY man who'd served her some
      weeks earlier as a fill-in, to please check if she had a package.
      He THREW BACK a DARK LOOK. `I'll need to see some identification.'
      Joan returned a puzzled look. Show an ID for a package that might
      not be there?"

      P-
      See! Klemp mentioned twice that there were THREE clerks!
      Principle of the Threes anyone? Now why was Joan "puzzled?"
      How difficult is it to get your ID out? Maybe Joan isn't use to an
      underling giving her orders (she is the wife of the man with the
      highest consciousness on earth and she is second in command
      at the ECKankar Spiritual Center (ESC) regardless of what Peter
      Skelsky (the President of ECKankar) may think!

      Also, the Law of Economy and common sense would be applied
      here as well. Why would the clerk take the time to look through
      dozens of packages, and keep other customers waiting, only to
      find out that the Joan forgot her ID? Or, what if the package was
      for someone else who had to present their own ID if the package
      had a different address (the ESC) than on her (Joan's) driver license?


      HK-
      "With all the SELF-IMPORTANCE of an UNCIVIL servant, he said,
      `There are No Normal People here today!' That explained everything.
      It'd been a hard day all around. The difference between them is
      that The Clerk Holds On To Things He Feels Are Out Of Order, WHILE
      JOAN LETS THE SLIGHTS OF OTHER PEOPLE GO. SHE DOESN'T HANG
      ON TO A BAD ENCOUNTER with a person who behaves in a BOORISH
      manner. She SURRENDERS to the ECK." [My caps]

      P-
      Not showing an ID is out-of-order! I would, also, disagree with
      Harold and say that the "difference" between Joan and the temporary
      postal clerk is that Joan is an 9th initiate in Eckankar, and that she
      was WRONG not to think that she should show her ID before the
      clerk went to look for the package.

      Also, I don't believe that Joan Does Not hold onto what she perceives
      as "slights of other people," or that "she doesn't hang on to a bad
      encounter!" After all, how did Harold even know of the incident,
      unless, Joan gave him an ear full when she arrived home! Besides,
      why does she even see this as a slight? Is she seeing the red of her
      own aura, and the reflection of her own feelings and Not that of the
      temporary clerk? Joan seems to have a very strong ego and gets very
      emotional when challenged by a lesser valued Soul. And, Harold obviously
      felt insulted and wronged for his wife (according to her account), and
      he, too, became emotionally involved in order to make these negative
      and unloving comments about this Soul.

      HK-
      "The Golden-tongued Wisdom had spoken in the clerk's own
      words: There are no normal people here today.' He'd then said
      that he couldn't issue a postal money order—a basic post-office
      service. Joan, of course, persisted. Another clerk was happy to
      sell her a money order."

      P-
      I find that this is an abuse of the term "Golden-Tongued Wisdom"
      since Harold is using it in a vengeful way in order to slight this
      temporary postal clerk. Besides, are Truth/God Seekers "normal
      people?" I don't think so! Then again, Klemp stated in this same
      H.I. Letter that ECKists are "Superior Normal." Anyway, it could,
      also, be that this temporary clerk was not trained to do money
      orders, or that only one person had this duty? Why am I able to
      see the obvious, or the positive side of things and Harold and
      Joan can't? Give the clerk the benefit of the doubt for God's sake!

      HK-
      "Let the ECK, or the Mahanta, help carry your frustrations. It's
      the key to happiness. But how to accomplish that? The discipline
      of remembering to surrender is part of one's spiritual discipline.
      Yes, this sounds like no answer at all, but it's the individual's
      responsibility to remember. That's what consciousness is for."

      P-
      What a load of Bullshit! How is surrendering or becoming co-
      dependence upon a "Mahanta," teaching spiritual discipline
      and Self-Mastery? It certainly isn't teaching self responsibility!
      Perhaps we should look at it from another perspective and
      understand that the test is Not to remember to hand the problem
      off to someone else, but is to take responsibility! In almost all
      of Harold's writings I can see that Klemp is not very empathetic
      (understanding and loving) to other people.

      HK-
      "Let's add, too, that the postal clerk's IDEA of SERVICE to people
      goes BEGGING. It's not an example for an ECKist. Service in ECK
      means being an agent for the Mahanta. It requires respect for
      others." [My caps]

      P-
      Harold's not being very nice to this THIRD temporary postal clerk
      is he? Actually, the clerk was probably acting on a higher level
      of consciousness than Joan (a 9th initiate in Eckankar) and Harold
      (a 14th initiate). After all, he was following the Law of Economy
      by asking for Joan's ID before he went looking for the packages.
      What if she had not had the I.D. with her (as many people have done)
      after he looked for five minutes? Isn't it just common sense to ask
      to see the I.D. first? Where is Harold's common sense? His emotions
      in defending Joan from an imagined insult has blinded him! But,
      what happened to the Mahanta's "respect" for this Soul?

      Isn't it interesting that Harold is also throwing out the old "service"
      carrot also. Too bad that Harold's idea of service cannot help him
      to be an agent for the Mahanta either. Or, maybe he is a true agent
      of KAL as a false "Master." BTW- Let's not overlook the Principle of
      the Threes! Both Joan and Harold mentioned that there were THREE
      clerks on duty and yet this doesn't make them take a second look
      at the whole experience (test)!


      HK-
      "The Holy ECK feeds all with the bread and waters of life. So how
      could a spiritually alert person do less than SERVE It with love and
      humility? This attitude should be like a shining light to the world.
      True love and humility show in all one's dealings. Build and support
      people. An old saying has it: `Whose bread I eat, his song I
      sing.'

      P-
      I wonder who Harold is talking about because it can't be himself
      or Joan! How can Harold be "SPIRITUALLY ALERT" or "humble" to
      have made these nasty comments in this publication? Why did they
      not see the obvious point about the clerk checking to see if people
      have their IDs with them before looking for their packages? And,
      after 9/11 security is tighter everywhere anyway! HK and JK were
      both caught up in emotional (Astral) anger. The bigger one is the
      further they have to fall! One more thing- This article sat in HK's
      computer for awhile and wasn't immediately printed in this pub.
      Klemp had plenty of time to cool down and regain his composure
      and perspective. HK could have done a rewrite, or deleted this, but
      he didn't! This gives a very clear look into his dark vindictive Soul.

      Why was it that Harold and Joan can't see that maybe only one
      "temporary clerk" might have been in charge of doing money orders?
      Even assuming that this one person seemed lazy, or was not very
      customer friendly about the money order… couldn't there be mitigating
      circumstances for this? What was Joan projecting? Or, maybe the
      clerk wasn't even trained on how to do money orders…. he's a
      "TEMPORARY" (fill-in) postal clerk! Where is the empathy and insight?
      Where is Harold's love and humility? Notice that Harold throws in the
      word "serve" as he tries to give the impression that only he and ECK
      chelas become spiritually aware when they "serve It" and that "true
      love and humility shows in all one's dealings." Not really, but putting
      his spin on things is nothing new to Harold.


      HK-
      "Wouldn't a loving and humble ECKist recognize the ECK and the
      Mahanta as the source of his very subsistence? Then how could
      he ever serve the Kal, the negative force?

      P-
      I didn't meet too many loving and humble ECKists in my many
      years and travels (including Harold!). They're almost as rare as
      finding hen's teeth in the EK Henhouse! Now I did meet a lot of
      unloving, arrogant, delusional, unspiritual, clueless, rationalizing
      and manipulative Eckists! So, maybe This is why many don't have
      a True relationship with Spirit (the Eck). To me, Harold doesn't seem
      to have a true relationship with Spirit either. Just look at his words
      and behavior! And once again, Harold is pushing reliance on the
      Mahanta as the "source of his (ECKists) very subsistence." ECKists
      actually serve the KAL (the Black Magician) while thinking they are
      serving the Mahanta. But take a second look at Klemp's words!

      It's interesting that Harold asks the question as to how any ECKist
      could ever serve the KAL when they claim to serve the ECK (Spirit),
      AND the Mahanta? Is this supposed to be proof that Harold is serving
      Spirit instead of KAL? Does his made-up title of "Mahanta" mean that
      he's above Karma? And, doesn't service to IT take place and change
      in each moment as we make choices, or do chelas just start the day
      with a contemplation and pretend that the Mahanta will take care
      of things for them? If ECKists are to be "spiritually alert" then they
      should be alert to what is taking place with other people and with
      their own actions and reactions to them, as well as, the situations
      we are all placed in for our spiritual growth. Unfortunately, both
      Harold and Joan did not view this experience and test with the
      THIRD temporary postal clerk as an opportunity for their own spiritual
      growth because they are delusional and egotistical. I would say
      that they have MISSED the MARK and have erroneously placed
      themselves above the field of action and of spiritual growth.
      They are deluded and mean spirited! Klemp may have fooled these
      ECKists, for now, but eventually IT will catch up to him! Catch-22!

      Prometheus




      Sharon <brighttigress@...> wrote:
      >
      > The postal clerk story was posted awhile back at
      Eckankar Survivors Anonymous by Prometheus - I just
      did a search but couldn't find the original post, it's from
      the 09/2003 HI newsletter, Joan got all bent out of shape
      about being asked for ID at the PO and Klemp made some
      nasty comments about it.   It was a pretty good post!  
      I'm sure Prometheus would be able to find it again -
      in fact, I'll try cc'ing a copy of this over to ESA & hope
      it works - I'm in a rush right now & almost on my way
      out the door!
      >
      > Oh - do you remember an old klempstory, he & wife
      (I think it was Marge at the time) were in their car, trying
      to figure out if their conversation was simply discussing
      someone or <oh horrors!> gossip, the muffler fell off the
      car so that was "golden tongued wisdom" telling them they
      were gossiping.  More likely Klemp just neglected to maintain
      his car properly.
      >
      > There's lot of fun & informative stories in the message
      archives at all the "ex" groups if you've got time to go back
      & read them!
      >
      > Hugs,
      >
      > Sharon
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Sharon and All, Here s a snip from that infamous Sept. 2003 H.I. Letter (listed in the FILES section): ***The H.I. Letter - September 2003 [front page
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 14, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Sharon and All,
        Here's a snip from that infamous Sept. 2003 H.I. Letter
        (listed in the FILES section):

        ***The H.I. Letter - September 2003 [front page article]***

        HK-
        "Joan went to the post office to conduct some business. The THREE
        regular postal clerks were on vacation, and THREE fill-ins were in
        place. Joan asked one clerk, a SURLY man who'd served her some
        weeks earlier as a fill-in, to please check if she had a package.
        He THREW BACK a DARK LOOK. `I'll need to see some identification.'
        Joan returned a puzzled look. Show an ID for a package that might
        not be there?"

        ME: Is Klemp clueless, stupid, aloof, or out-of-touch
        with reality that he thinks people (or just Joan) shouldn't
        have to "Show an ID for a package that might not be there?"

        This comment, alone, shows that Klemp is NOT a Master!

        A truly enlightened Soul (Master) would Not have made this
        illogical comment let alone these other negative and emotional
        ones. Would Jesus, Gandhi, or Buddha have responded like
        Klemp? No! Of course not! Yet, on page 385 of HK's "Autobiography
        of a Modern Prophet" he claims that these people created and
        followed (Gandhi, Hinduism) 2nd and 4th Plane religions.
        And Klemp claims to be a 14th Plane Mahanta (Master of Masters)!

        Then, we have Klemp failing to see the significance of there
        being THREE fill-in clerks on that day of Joan's visit! This
        "Principle of the Threes" is used by Klemp when responding
        to Questions and when using Sources when writing his articles.
        Yet, his emotional outburst tunes this out and upsets his balance!
        But, for some unknown reason, HK's H.I.s have become blinded
        to the Truth! Amazing!

        Next, we have the irony of Klemp's Negative and Emotional
        (Astral) attack of this Soul based upon the "real" Golden-Tongued
        Wisdom that Klemp fails to see.

        This post office (package & ID) experience was a "private" and
        "personal" Spiritual Wake-Up Call (test) for Joan. Harry became
        involved and they both deluded themselves to think they're
        "above" tests and karma via to believing in their own hype.
        Instead, Klemp makes it into a lesson for "other" chelas.
        However, for those "others" who can still SEE with spiritual
        eyes ECK (SPIRIT) is giving them the opportunity, insight,
        and common sense (Grace?) to see through Klemp's fraud
        with his own words!

        Prometheus


        Sharon <brighttigress@...> wrote:
        >
        > The postal clerk story was posted awhile back at
        EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous by Prometheus - I just
        did a search but couldn't find the original post, it's
        from the

        > 09/2003 HI newsletter, Joan got all bent out of shape
        about being asked for ID at the PO and Klemp made some
        nasty comments about it.   It was a pretty good post!  
        I'm sure Prometheus would be able to find it again - in fact,
        I'll try cc'ing a copy of this over to ESA & hope it works -
        I'm in a rush right now & almost on my way out the door!

        [snip]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.