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Re: My Cult Experinece

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  • mishmisha9
    Hello, Nancy! Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your Christian cult experience. It also gives warning to those leaving one spiritual/religious
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 12, 2009
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      Hello, Nancy!

      Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your
      "Christian cult" experience. It also gives warning to those
      leaving one spiritual/religious group (like Eckankar) to watch
      out. So often when a person abandons one, he or she is eager
      to find something else to fill the void. There is danger in
      being duped and conned again.

      I think it is just evil to take over a person's life like these
      cults do. Belief is what people search for, something to
      hold onto, in figuring out what life and being is all about.
      For me, I believe in the importance of believing in oneself!
      When others take over and control a person, that belief in
      self is muddled and confused and basically lost.

      I'm glad you removed yourself from that group. It was very
      interesting to read what you wrote!

      Best regards,
      Mish


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, nancy brunelle <lonwakome@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Again -
      > I was in what I would consider a local cult. The leader/instigator/perpetrator was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience began channeling material from someone named Phoebe who lived back in the day of the mystery religions in ancient Greece. It was all very secretive, and I was led to it through a friend. I made the mistake of confiding to her that I was having out of body experiences, and one of the experiences I described supposedly involved the entity who was doing the channeling for the group. The group was for Christian women, who were the leaders, but in reality the pastor had control, as he was the one who would receive the "messages" from Phoebe. There were levels of "advancement" that were controlled by Phoebe, and the pastor, and the elder sisters in the group.  I was considered to have a great spiritual gift, but first I had to meet all the qualifications and be advanced. Ironically, one of the first requirements for me
      > was that I cease all unauthorized out of body travel. (are you getting the picture here?) It was all about control, control, CONTROL, and if I was allowed to communicate with Phoebe directly, I would know all the "secrets" - which could be very dangerous if the "enemy" got a hold of them!!! The Enemy were those spirits out in the ethers who were bent on destroying the work that Phoebe was trying to accomplish here on Earth, you see....
      > Needless to say, the originator of the group saw nothing positive in me, and blocked my advancement every chance he got.  He never figured out that he really had nothing to fear from me - I wasn't out to expose him, and I let him know that on several occasions, but that only fueled his distaste.  I just wanted to share the teachings, and deepen my own spirituality. I had little use for all the trappings and the mind games. That was another thing that he used against me to question whether I was a true sister, truly called to the mission of the order. Loyalty was measured in terms of obedience - and I was happy to be obedient to God. Just not the humans who were trying to dictate what I should and should not know based on my obedience to THEM.. So I was usually one who asked a lot of annoying questions when a concept was given or an order came forth. Suffice it to say there were a lot of fear tactics used to keep us all in line.
      > There's more that I could say, but that's the basics.
      > I actually came accross Eckankar while I was in the order, but any association with it was strictly forbidden. I thought that Eck people were all these wonderful people who were going out of body doing spiritual work in what we used to call "the half-world". That was my cult's name for the place where people go when thay are not quite ready for the next plane of existance. It's got ghosts, and people who are still emotionally tied to people here on earth, or people who don't realize they have died, can't find the light, etc. Souls who are "stuck" for various reasons. So I decided to look Eckankar up again after all these years, but I came across your survivor site. Since I consider myself a cult survivor as well, I wanted to learn about you,and share what I also experienced with others.
      > Speaking of learning, I want to say that I did learn a lot from all the responses to my "Dead Horse" post.  I can see that I was way off the mark.  I see that the reasons you keep up the commentary on these people is not because you are "stuck" in it - I now understand the service you are providing for others so that they can begin to, or continue to question, and so that they have a place to go when they want to make the leap to get out.  Thanks to all who hung in there with me on this and were patient while I figured it out.
      > Peace,
      > Lonwakome aka nancy
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Nancy and All, Eckankar members see things somewhat differently, from your former cult experience, and, of course, Eckists use different terminology and
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 14, 2009
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        Hello Nancy and All,
        Eckankar members see things somewhat differently,
        from your former cult experience, and, of course,
        Eckists use different terminology and jargon. However,
        the more objective viewer, via standing back from it all,
        sees that it is all just another "mind trick" of religion.

        The Eckankar teachings of Twitchell and the current
        leader, Rev. Klemp, teach that orthodox religion fails
        to satisfy the spiritual thirst of Truth/Spiritual Seekers,
        and, thus, they come to Eckankar and other cult groups.

        It is more than likely, however, that many people simply
        need the personal touch, a connection with others, and
        the attention that small groups and small groups (churches)
        can give. It's more "hands on" and personal where people
        can feel important, needed, and listened to.

        In other words, these small religious groups (cults), like
        Eckankar, fulfill the human and social need of "belonging"
        that the big orthodox religious cults are incapable of providing.
        Besides, many Eckists (isolated cultists) tend to be misfits
        of sorts, free thinkers, and skeptics. Yet, they are lulled in
        with interesting and unusual concepts and perspectives
        of life and of "death."

        It's interesting that the EK teachings state that Eckankar
        will be a World-Wide Religion known by all people. After
        28 years, with Klemp in-charge, how close are they?
        BTW- In a past World-Wide Census over 500,000 people
        listed "Jedi" as their religion! And, Eckankar has how many
        members... 50,000 maybe? This is an old number too! For
        some reason this member count, too, is a secret.

        There are actually FOUR (not three) Keys or Precepts to
        Eckankar that every Eckist is well aware of. They are as follows:

        The FOUR S's-

        1. Secrecy
        2. Silence
        3. Surrender
        4. Service

        The "Secrecy" involves not repeating or sharing information
        with others. Now, this just isn't with "spiritual" secrets
        that can "burn" another... it's, especially, with how the
        "business" of Eckankar is run! It has to do more with
        money and what people like HK, JK, and PS are paid and
        with the property (and bank accounts, stocks, etc.) that
        they (and Eckankar) own.

        Keeping "Silent," by following the Law of Silence, is key
        to being a "follower." It has a two-fold purpose in that
        the follower or believer (Eckist) feels that they are doing
        right (loyalty) and are demonstrating discipline. Klemp
        benefits because this is a control tactic that other religions
        and secret groups have used, over time, to manipulate
        their followers.

        "Surrender" means giving one's WILL over to another.
        It means that one (the follower) is to stop thinking about
        and analyzing Klemp's words beyond their one-dimensional
        content. It means stop questioning anything that is written
        by and approved by the leader (Klemp). And, the true
        (brain-washed) believer "knows" (second guesses) the
        LEM/Mahanta as to what is NOT to be to be said or repeated
        without it being spelled out in writing as a Spoken, (or
        Unspoken), Rule, Zoa, or Guideline!

        "Service" (in Eckankar) is KEY on many levels. One must
        be a "current" member in order to "Serve," and that means
        paying for that Annual Membership. Of course, donating
        time (to bring in new customers/members) and money
        (for materials) comes with this. It is said that one must
        have "outflow" in order to have "inflow." This "spiritual"
        concept, however, is not unique to Eckankar, although,
        many Eckists think it is entirely (EK) Divine Wisdom passed
        down from the "lineage" of Eck Masters (Twitchell's imagination
        and con). Eckists really need to read more!

        Except, Klemp does the chicken/egg switch around.
        Everything is of SPIRIT (ECK, trademark) and this has
        always existed. Therefore, even if a NON-EK Master
        (in the past) said something relevant or insightful HK
        can still claim it as having come from the ECK Masters!
        Look at the voyage of Columbus! EK Master Fubbi gave
        Columbus the idea that Europe needed "protein" and
        EK Master Rebazar was even onboard to guide Columbus
        to the Americas (not the U.S. however). But, Klemp
        never gives an explanation for the repercussions of
        these visits by Governor Columbus. Klemp never mentions
        the Negative results that Fubbi and Rebazar were involved
        with! Klemp tries to have it his way, once again, without
        taking responsibility or showing the Bigger Picture! Besides,
        Europe had even more sources for "protein" than the
        Americas did. The Americas didn't have the domesticated
        meat sources for one thing!

        Anyway, as I said in the beginning of these comments,
        people feel "special" and "safer" in small group settings
        and that's one reason why these cults have become more
        attractive by many spiritual seekers.

        Prometheus


        Hello, Nancy!

        Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your
        "Christian cult" experience. It also gives warning to those
        leaving one spiritual/religious group (like Eckankar) to watch
        out. So often when a person abandons one, he or she is eager
        to find something else to fill the void. There is danger in
        being duped and conned again.

        I think it is just evil to take over a person's life like these
        cults do. Belief is what people search for, something to
        hold onto, in figuring out what life and being is all about.
        For me, I believe in the importance of believing in oneself!
        When others take over and control a person, that belief in
        self is muddled and confused and basically lost.

        I'm glad you removed yourself from that group. It was very
        interesting to read what you wrote!

        Best regards,
        Mish


        nancy brunelle lonwakome wrote:
        >
        > Hello Again -
        > I was in what I would consider a local cult. The leader/instigator/perpetrator
        was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience began channeling
        material from someone named Phoebe who lived back in the day of the mystery
        religions in ancient Greece. It was all very secretive, and I was led to it
        through a friend. I made the mistake of confiding to her that I was having out
        of body experiences, and one of the experiences I described supposedly involved
        the entity who was doing the channeling for the group. The group was for
        Christian women, who were the leaders, but in reality the pastor had control, as
        he was the one who would receive the "messages" from Phoebe. There were levels
        of "advancement" that were controlled by Phoebe, and the pastor, and the elder
        sisters in the group. I was considered to have a great spiritual gift, but
        first I had to meet all the qualifications and be advanced. Ironically, one of
        the first requirements for me was that I cease all unauthorized out of body
        travel.
        (are you getting the picture here?) It was all about control, control, CONTROL,
        and if I was allowed to communicate with Phoebe directly, I would know all the
        "secrets" - which could be very dangerous if the "enemy" got a hold of them!!!
        The Enemy were those spirits out in the ethers who were bent on destroying the
        work that Phoebe was trying to accomplish here on Earth, you see....

        > Needless to say, the originator of the group saw nothing positive in me,
        and blocked my advancement every chance he got. He never figured out that
        he really had nothing to fear from me - I wasn't out to expose him, and I let
        him know that on several occasions, but that only fueled his distaste. I just
        wanted to share the teachings, and deepen my own spirituality. I had little
        use for all the trappings and the mind games. That was another thing that
        he used against me to question whether I was a true sister, truly called to the
        mission of the order. Loyalty was measured in terms of obedience - and I was
        happy to be obedient to God. Just not the humans who were trying to dictate
        what I should and should not know based on my obedience to THEM..
        So I was usually one who asked a lot of annoying questions when a concept
        was given or an order came forth. Suffice it to say there were a lot of fear
        tactics used to keep us all in line.

        > There's more that I could say, but that's the basics.

        > I actually came accross Eckankar while I was in the order, but any association
        with it was strictly forbidden. I thought that Eck people were all these
        wonderful people who were going out of body doing spiritual work in what
        we used to call "the half-world". That was my cult's name for the place where
        people go when thay are not quite ready for the next plane of existance. It's
        got ghosts, and people who are still emotionally tied to people here on earth,
        or people who don't realize they have died, can't find the light, etc. Souls who
        are "stuck" for various reasons. So I decided to look Eckankar up again after
        all these years, but I came across your survivor site. Since I consider myself
        a cult survivor as well, I wanted to learn about you, and share what I also
        experienced with others.

        > Speaking of learning, I want to say that I did learn a lot from all the
        responses to my "Dead Horse" post. I can see that I was way off the mark.
        I see that the reasons you keep up the commentary on these people is not
        because you are "stuck" in it - I now understand the service you are providing
        for others so that they can begin to, or continue to question, and so that they
        have a place to go when they want to make the leap to get out. Thanks to all
        who hung in there with me on this and were patient while I figured it out.

        > Peace,
        > Lonwakome aka nancy
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        Have you included this site in your links section? http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/ I came across it the other
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 14, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Have you included this site in your links section?

          http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/

          I came across it the other day. It reads a lot like
          E.S.A., only the members are from another group.

          The archive section begins here:

          http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2009 1:20 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: My Cult Experience & EK Think








          Hello Nancy and All,

          Eckankar members see things somewhat differently,

          from your former cult experience, and, of course,

          Eckists use different terminology and jargon. However,

          the more objective viewer, via standing back from it all,

          sees that it is all just another "mind trick" of religion.



          The Eckankar teachings of Twitchell and the current

          leader, Rev. Klemp, teach that orthodox religion fails

          to satisfy the spiritual thirst of Truth/Spiritual Seekers,

          and, thus, they come to Eckankar and other cult groups.



          It is more than likely, however, that many people simply

          need the personal touch, a connection with others, and

          the attention that small groups and small groups (churches)

          can give. It's more "hands on" and personal where people

          can feel important, needed, and listened to.




          In other words, these small religious groups (cults), like

          Eckankar, fulfill the human and social need of "belonging"

          that the big orthodox religious cults are incapable of providing.

          Besides, many Eckists (isolated cultists) tend to be misfits

          of sorts, free thinkers, and skeptics. Yet, they are lulled in

          with interesting and unusual concepts and perspectives

          of life and of "death."



          It's interesting that the EK teachings state that Eckankar

          will be a World-Wide Religion known by all people. After

          28 years, with Klemp in-charge, how close are they?

          BTW- In a past World-Wide Census over 500,000 people

          listed "Jedi" as their religion! And, Eckankar has how many

          members... 50,000 maybe? This is an old number too! For

          some reason this member count, too, is a secret.



          There are actually FOUR (not three) Keys or Precepts to

          Eckankar that every Eckist is well aware of. They are as follows:



          The FOUR S's-



          1. Secrecy

          2. Silence

          3. Surrender

          4. Service



          The "Secrecy" involves not repeating or sharing information

          with others. Now, this just isn't with "spiritual" secrets

          that can "burn" another... it's, especially, with how the

          "business" of Eckankar is run! It has to do more with

          money and what people like HK, JK, and PS are paid and

          with the property (and bank accounts, stocks, etc.) that

          they=2
          0(and Eckankar) own.



          Keeping "Silent," by following the Law of Silence, is key

          to being a "follower." It has a two-fold purpose in that

          the follower or believer (Eckist) feels that they are doing

          right (loyalty) and are demonstrating discipline. Klemp

          benefits because this is a control tactic that other religions

          and secret groups have used, over time, to manipulate

          their followers.



          "Surrender" means giving one's WILL over to another.

          It means that one (the follower) is to stop thinking about

          and analyzing Klemp's words beyond their one-dimensional

          content. It means stop questioning anything that is written

          by and approved by the leader (Klemp). And, the true

          (brain-washed) believer "knows" (second guesses) the

          LEM/Mahanta as to what is NOT to be to be said or repeated

          without it being spelled out in writing as a Spoken, (or

          Unspoken), Rule, Zoa, or Guideline!



          "Service" (in Eckankar) is KEY on many levels. One must

          be a "current" member in order to "Serve," and that means

          paying for that Annual Membership. Of course, donating

          time (to bring in new customers/members) and money

          (for materials) comes with this. It is said that one must

          have "outflow" in order to have "inflow." This "spiritual"

          concept, however, is not unique to Eckankar, although,

          many Eckists think it is entirely (EK) Divine Wisdom passed

          down from the "lineag
          e" of Eck Masters (Twitchell's imagination

          and con). Eckists really need to read more!



          Except, Klemp does the chicken/egg switch around.

          Everything is of SPIRIT (ECK, trademark) and this has

          always existed. Therefore, even if a NON-EK Master

          (in the past) said something relevant or insightful HK

          can still claim it as having come from the ECK Masters!

          Look at the voyage of Columbus! EK Master Fubbi gave

          Columbus the idea that Europe needed "protein" and

          EK Master Rebazar was even onboard to guide Columbus

          to the Americas (not the U.S. however). But, Klemp

          never gives an explanation for the repercussions of

          these visits by Governor Columbus. Klemp never mentions

          the Negative results that Fubbi and Rebazar were involved

          with! Klemp tries to have it his way, once again, without

          taking responsibility or showing the Bigger Picture! Besides,

          Europe had even more sources for "protein" than the

          Americas did. The Americas didn't have the domesticated

          meat sources for one thing!



          Anyway, as I said in the beginning of these comments,

          people feel "special" and "safer" in small group settings

          and that's one reason why these cults have become more

          attractive by many spiritual seekers.



          Prometheus



          Hello, Nancy!



          Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your

          "Christian cult" experience. It also gives warning to tho
          se

          leaving one spiritual/religious group (like Eckankar) to watch

          out. So often when a person abandons one, he or she is eager

          to find something else to fill the void. There is danger in

          being duped and conned again.



          I think it is just evil to take over a person's life like these

          cults do. Belief is what people search for, something to

          hold onto, in figuring out what life and being is all about.

          For me, I believe in the importance of believing in oneself!

          When others take over and control a person, that belief in

          self is muddled and confused and basically lost.



          I'm glad you removed yourself from that group. It was very

          interesting to read what you wrote!



          Best regards,

          Mish



          nancy brunelle lonwakome wrote:

          >

          > Hello Again -

          > I was in what I would consider a local cult. The
          leader/instigator/perpetrator

          was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience began
          channeling

          material from someone named Phoebe who lived back in the day of the
          mystery

          religions in ancient Greece. It was all very secretive, and I was led
          to it

          through a friend. I made the mistake of confiding to her that I was
          having out

          of body experiences, and one of the experiences I described supposedly
          involved

          the entity who was doing the channeling for the group. The group was for0D

          Christian women, who were the leaders, but in reality the pastor had
          control, as

          he was the one who would receive the "messages" from Phoebe. There were
          levels

          of "advancement" that were controlled by Phoebe, and the pastor, and
          the elder

          sisters in the group. I was considered to have a great spiritual gift,
          but

          first I had to meet all the qualifications and be advanced. Ironically,
          one of

          the first requirements for me was that I cease all unauthorized out of
          body

          travel.

          (are you getting the picture here?) It was all about control, control,
          CONTROL,

          and if I was allowed to communicate with Phoebe directly, I would know
          all the

          "secrets" - which could be very dangerous if the "enemy" got a hold of
          them!!!

          The Enemy were those spirits out in the ethers who were bent on
          destroying the

          work that Phoebe was trying to accomplish here on Earth, you see....



          > Needless to say, the originator of the group saw nothing positive
          in me,

          and blocked my advancement every chance he got. He never figured out
          that

          he really had nothing to fear from me - I wasn't out to expose him, and
          I let

          him know that on several occasions, but that only fueled his distaste.
          I just

          wanted to share the teachings, and deepen my own spirituality. I had
          little

          use for all the trappings and the mind games. That was anoth
          er thing
          that

          he used against me to question whether I was a true sister, truly
          called to the

          mission of the order. Loyalty was measured in terms of obedience - and
          I was

          happy to be obedient to God. Just not the humans who were trying to
          dictate

          what I should and should not know based on my obedience to THEM..

          So I was usually one who asked a lot of annoying questions when a
          concept

          was given or an order came forth. Suffice it to say there were a lot of
          fear

          tactics used to keep us all in line.



          > There's more that I could say, but that's the basics.



          > I actually came accross Eckankar while I was in the order, but any
          association

          with it was strictly forbidden. I thought that Eck people were all these

          wonderful people who were going out of body doing spiritual work in what

          we used to call "the half-world". That was my cult's name for the place
          where

          people go when thay are not quite ready for the next plane of
          existance. It's

          got ghosts, and people who are still emotionally tied to people here on
          earth,

          or people who don't realize they have died, can't find the light, etc.
          Souls who

          are "stuck" for various reasons. So I decided to look Eckankar up again
          after

          all these years, but I came across your survivor site. Since I consider
          myself

          a cult survivor as well, I=2
          0wanted to learn about you, and share what I
          also

          experienced with others.



          > Speaking of learning, I want to say that I did learn a lot from
          all the

          responses to my "Dead Horse" post. I can see that I was way off the
          mark.

          I see that the reasons you keep up the commentary on these people is not

          because you are "stuck" in it - I now understand the service you are
          providing

          for others so that they can begin to, or continue to question, and so
          that they

          have a place to go when they want to make the leap to get out. Thanks
          to all

          who hung in there with me on this and were patient while I figured it
          out.



          > Peace,

          > Lonwakome aka nancy

          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab, This is interesting as is reading about the Tao. But, I m familiar with this path and, once again, one (Soul) needs to become their own
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 14, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Etznab,
            This is interesting as is reading about the Tao.
            But, I'm familiar with this "path" and, once again,
            one (Soul) needs to become their own teacher.
            And, if people are not peer (Soul = Soul) then
            it all just becomes another religion with an "expert"
            in charge.

            Speaking of Klemp... I saw that in Mexico a man,
            Jesus Malverde, is worshipped because he helped
            the poor (like Robin Hood). There are even miracles
            attributed to him and he provides "protection" for
            the drug dealers. He is called the Narco Saint.

            What "Miracles" are attributed to Klemp? And who
            has HK "protected?" I know that he didn't perform
            any Miracles or offer Protection to those H.I.s who
            have died from Cancer in the last couple of years.

            I'll add the Church of the Churchless to the LINKS.

            Prometheus



            etznab wrote:
            >
            >
            > Have you included this site in your links section?

            http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/

            *******************************************************

            *BTW Etznab, here's another article (below) with
            a different perspective that addresses the above one
            that you listed. IMO- One can play golf, ride a bike, etc.
            and experience the same "spiritual" benefits as with
            Tai Chi or with the Qi. This would be the true Tao...
            which is individual.

            http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2009/07/tai-chi-doesnt-have-much-to-do-with-qi.html

            ********************************************************

            I came across it the other day. It reads a lot like
            E.S.A., only the members are from another group.
            >
            > The archive section begins here:
            >
            http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html
            >
            > Etznab

            >
            > Hello Nancy and All,
            >
            > Eckankar members see things somewhat differently,
            >
            > from your former cult experience, and, of course,
            >
            > Eckists use different terminology and jargon. However,
            >
            > the more objective viewer, via standing back from it all,
            >
            > sees that it is all just another "mind trick" of religion.
            >
            >
            >
            > The Eckankar teachings of Twitchell and the current
            >
            > leader, Rev. Klemp, teach that orthodox religion fails
            >
            > to satisfy the spiritual thirst of Truth/Spiritual Seekers,
            >
            > and, thus, they come to Eckankar and other cult groups.
            >
            >
            >
            > It is more than likely, however, that many people simply
            >
            > need the personal touch, a connection with others, and
            >
            > the attention that small groups and small groups (churches)
            >
            > can give. It's more "hands on" and personal where people
            >
            > can feel important, needed, and listened to.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > In other words, these small religious groups (cults), like
            >
            > Eckankar, fulfill the human and social need of "belonging"
            >
            > that the big orthodox religious cults are incapable of providing.
            >
            > Besides, many Eckists (isolated cultists) tend to be misfits
            >
            > of sorts, free thinkers, and skeptics. Yet, they are lulled in
            >
            > with interesting and unusual concepts and perspectives
            >
            > of life and of "death."
            >
            >
            >
            > It's interesting that the EK teachings state that Eckankar
            >
            > will be a World-Wide Religion known by all people. After
            >
            > 28 years, with Klemp in-charge, how close are they?
            >
            > BTW- In a past World-Wide Census over 500,000 people
            >
            > listed "Jedi" as their religion! And, Eckankar has how many
            >
            > members... 50,000 maybe? This is an old number too! For
            >
            > some reason this member count, too, is a secret.
            >
            >
            >
            > There are actually FOUR (not three) Keys or Precepts to
            >
            > Eckankar that every Eckist is well aware of. They are as follows:
            >
            >
            >
            > The FOUR S's-
            >
            >
            >
            > 1. Secrecy
            >
            > 2. Silence
            >
            > 3. Surrender
            >
            > 4. Service
            >
            >
            >
            > The "Secrecy" involves not repeating or sharing information
            >
            > with others. Now, this just isn't with "spiritual" secrets
            >
            > that can "burn" another... it's, especially, with how the
            >
            > "business" of Eckankar is run! It has to do more with
            >
            > money and what people like HK, JK, and PS are paid and
            >
            > with the property (and bank accounts, stocks, etc.) that
            >
            > they (and Eckankar) own.
            >
            >
            >
            > Keeping "Silent," by following the Law of Silence, is key
            >
            > to being a "follower." It has a two-fold purpose in that
            >
            > the follower or believer (Eckist) feels that they are doing
            >
            > right (loyalty) and are demonstrating discipline. Klemp
            >
            > benefits because this is a control tactic that other religions
            >
            > and secret groups have used, over time, to manipulate
            >
            > their followers.
            >
            >
            >
            > "Surrender" means giving one's WILL over to another.
            >
            > It means that one (the follower) is to stop thinking about
            >
            > and analyzing Klemp's words beyond their one-dimensional
            >
            > content. It means stop questioning anything that is written
            >
            > by and approved by the leader (Klemp). And, the true
            >
            > (brain-washed) believer "knows" (second guesses) the
            >
            > LEM/Mahanta as to what is NOT to be to be said or repeated
            >
            > without it being spelled out in writing as a Spoken, (or
            >
            > Unspoken), Rule, Zoa, or Guideline!
            >
            >
            >
            > "Service" (in Eckankar) is KEY on many levels. One must
            >
            > be a "current" member in order to "Serve," and that means
            >
            > paying for that Annual Membership. Of course, donating
            >
            > time (to bring in new customers/members) and money
            >
            > (for materials) comes with this. It is said that one must
            >
            > have "outflow" in order to have "inflow." This "spiritual"
            >
            > concept, however, is not unique to Eckankar, although,
            >
            > many Eckists think it is entirely (EK) Divine Wisdom passed
            >
            > down from the "lineage" of Eck Masters (Twitchell's imagination
            >
            > and con). Eckists really need to read more!
            >
            >
            >
            > Except, Klemp does the chicken/egg switch around.
            >
            > Everything is of SPIRIT (ECK, trademark) and this has
            >
            > always existed. Therefore, even if a NON-EK Master
            >
            > (in the past) said something relevant or insightful HK
            >
            > can still claim it as having come from the ECK Masters!
            >
            > Look at the voyage of Columbus! EK Master Fubbi gave
            >
            > Columbus the idea that Europe needed "protein" and
            >
            > EK Master Rebazar was even onboard to guide Columbus
            >
            > to the Americas (not the U.S. however). But, Klemp
            >
            > never gives an explanation for the repercussions of
            >
            > these visits by Governor Columbus. Klemp never mentions
            >
            > the Negative results that Fubbi and Rebazar were involved
            >
            > with! Klemp tries to have it his way, once again, without
            >
            > taking responsibility or showing the Bigger Picture! Besides,
            >
            > Europe had even more sources for "protein" than the
            >
            > Americas did. The Americas didn't have the domesticated
            >
            > meat sources for one thing!
            >
            >
            >
            > Anyway, as I said in the beginning of these comments,
            >
            > people feel "special" and "safer" in small group settings
            >
            > and that's one reason why these cults have become more
            >
            > attractive by many spiritual seekers.
            >
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Etznab and All, I found more interesting info on this site about the origination of the ECKankar Teachings. Radha Soami Satsang Beas was founded by
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 15, 2009
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              Hello Etznab and All,
              I found more interesting info on this site about
              the origination of the ECKankar Teachings. Radha
              Soami Satsang Beas was founded by Kirpal Singh's
              Master [Kirpal was Paul Twitchell's real Master (aka
              Sudar Singh, Rebazar Tarzs) from 1955-1965].
              Kirpal split from Radha Soami and founded Ruhani
              Satsang and died (age 80) three years after Twitchell
              (age 63) in 1974.

              http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html

              From the Church of the Churchless:

              We all want to belong.

              The Church of the Churchless welcomes those who
              feel like they don't belong, even if they are members
              of an organized religion or spiritual faith.

              You can be a member and not belong. You can sit
              through a communal service, sermon, celebration,
              or cermony, and still say to yourself: I don't belong
              here. You are going through the outward motions
              of what it means to be a member, but deep down you
              know that somewhere else is your real spiritual home.

              A lot of people feel this way. No one is alone in feeling
              alone. The big questions we all need to ask are:

              What am I missing?

              And: Can any organization give it to me?

              Every person has to come to grips with these questions
              by himself or herself. That said, here are my own pithy
              answers:

              Reality and No.

              By "reality," I mean a direct experience of what is really,
              really, real--what lasts when everything else passes away.
              Let's call this "God" for lack of a better term.

              If I am to experience God, where will this occur?

              Where every other experience of mine occurs:
              in my consciousness. The same is true for you,
              and for every other person on Earth.

              Nothing is real for us except what we consciously experience.

              A religious organization provides experiences of--
              no surprise here--a religious organization.

              What else would we expect?

              Well, many people illogically believe that an experience
              of something that isn't God can substitute for the real
              thing. It can't. God is God. Ultimate reality is ultimate
              reality.

              Everything else is everything else.

              So if you want to truly belong to God, to reality, you
              can't belong to anything else. For that thing will water
              down your experience of God to a greater or lesser
              degree. Usually greater, because our natural tendency
              is to cling tightly to the familiar rather than embrace
              mystery. And God is the ultimate Mystery.

              Bottom line: you can join the Church of the Churchless.

              Even more: you must join the Church of the Churchless
              if you want to know God.

              But this joining is wholly within you, not without.
              There are no application forms to fill out, no dues
              to be paid, no initiation ceremonies to be gone through.

              You are the Church of the Churchless. So am I.
              And so is everyone who wants to experience reality
              rather than religion, truth rather than dogma, substance
              rather than shadows.

              Each of us must make a choice. You or I can say,
              "I am a Christian," "I am a Muslim," "I am a Buddhist,"
              "I am a Hindu," "I am a Wiccan," "I am a Taoist," or whatever
              other faith [Eckankar] we subscribe to at the moment.

              The other option is to simply say with conviction, "I am."
              Do that, and you have joined the Church of the Churchless.
              Welcome. You belong. We have a lot to share.
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