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My Cult Experinece

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  • nancy brunelle
    Hello Again - I was in what I would consider a local cult. The leader/instigator/perpetrator was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 11 10:23 AM
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      Hello Again -
      I was in what I would consider a local cult. The leader/instigator/perpetrator was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience began channeling material from someone named Phoebe who lived back in the day of the mystery religions in ancient Greece. It was all very secretive, and I was led to it through a friend. I made the mistake of confiding to her that I was having out of body experiences, and one of the experiences I described supposedly involved the entity who was doing the channeling for the group. The group was for Christian women, who were the leaders, but in reality the pastor had control, as he was the one who would receive the "messages" from Phoebe. There were levels of "advancement" that were controlled by Phoebe, and the pastor, and the elder sisters in the group.  I was considered to have a great spiritual gift, but first I had to meet all the qualifications and be advanced. Ironically, one of the first requirements for me was that I cease all unauthorized out of body travel. (are you getting the picture here?) It was all about control, control, CONTROL, and if I was allowed to communicate with Phoebe directly, I would know all the "secrets" - which could be very dangerous if the "enemy" got a hold of them!!! The Enemy were those spirits out in the ethers who were bent on destroying the work that Phoebe was trying to accomplish here on Earth, you see....
      Needless to say, the originator of the group saw nothing positive in me, and blocked my advancement every chance he got.  He never figured out that he really had nothing to fear from me - I wasn't out to expose him, and I let him know that on several occasions, but that only fueled his distaste.  I just wanted to share the teachings, and deepen my own spirituality. I had little use for all the trappings and the mind games. That was another thing that he used against me to question whether I was a true sister, truly called to the mission of the order. Loyalty was measured in terms of obedience - and I was happy to be obedient to God. Just not the humans who were trying to dictate what I should and should not know based on my obedience to THEM. So I was usually one who asked a lot of annoying questions when a concept was given or an order came forth. Suffice it to say there were a lot of fear tactics used to keep us all in line.
      There's more that I could say, but that's the basics.
      I actually came accross Eckankar while I was in the order, but any association with it was strictly forbidden. I thought that Eck people were all these wonderful people who were going out of body doing spiritual work in what we used to call "the half-world". That was my cult's name for the place where people go when thay are not quite ready for the next plane of existance. It's got ghosts, and people who are still emotionally tied to people here on earth, or people who don't realize they have died, can't find the light, etc. Souls who are "stuck" for various reasons. So I decided to look Eckankar up again after all these years, but I came across your survivor site. Since I consider myself a cult survivor as well, I wanted to learn about you,and share what I also experienced with others.
      Speaking of learning, I want to say that I did learn a lot from all the responses to my "Dead Horse" post.  I can see that I was way off the mark.  I see that the reasons you keep up the commentary on these people is not because you are "stuck" in it - I now understand the service you are providing for others so that they can begin to, or continue to question, and so that they have a place to go when they want to make the leap to get out.  Thanks to all who hung in there with me on this and were patient while I figured it out.
      Peace,
      Lonwakome aka nancy
       
    • mishmisha9
      Hello, Nancy! Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your Christian cult experience. It also gives warning to those leaving one spiritual/religious
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 12 7:27 AM
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        Hello, Nancy!

        Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your
        "Christian cult" experience. It also gives warning to those
        leaving one spiritual/religious group (like Eckankar) to watch
        out. So often when a person abandons one, he or she is eager
        to find something else to fill the void. There is danger in
        being duped and conned again.

        I think it is just evil to take over a person's life like these
        cults do. Belief is what people search for, something to
        hold onto, in figuring out what life and being is all about.
        For me, I believe in the importance of believing in oneself!
        When others take over and control a person, that belief in
        self is muddled and confused and basically lost.

        I'm glad you removed yourself from that group. It was very
        interesting to read what you wrote!

        Best regards,
        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, nancy brunelle <lonwakome@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Again -
        > I was in what I would consider a local cult. The leader/instigator/perpetrator was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience began channeling material from someone named Phoebe who lived back in the day of the mystery religions in ancient Greece. It was all very secretive, and I was led to it through a friend. I made the mistake of confiding to her that I was having out of body experiences, and one of the experiences I described supposedly involved the entity who was doing the channeling for the group. The group was for Christian women, who were the leaders, but in reality the pastor had control, as he was the one who would receive the "messages" from Phoebe. There were levels of "advancement" that were controlled by Phoebe, and the pastor, and the elder sisters in the group.  I was considered to have a great spiritual gift, but first I had to meet all the qualifications and be advanced. Ironically, one of the first requirements for me
        > was that I cease all unauthorized out of body travel. (are you getting the picture here?) It was all about control, control, CONTROL, and if I was allowed to communicate with Phoebe directly, I would know all the "secrets" - which could be very dangerous if the "enemy" got a hold of them!!! The Enemy were those spirits out in the ethers who were bent on destroying the work that Phoebe was trying to accomplish here on Earth, you see....
        > Needless to say, the originator of the group saw nothing positive in me, and blocked my advancement every chance he got.  He never figured out that he really had nothing to fear from me - I wasn't out to expose him, and I let him know that on several occasions, but that only fueled his distaste.  I just wanted to share the teachings, and deepen my own spirituality. I had little use for all the trappings and the mind games. That was another thing that he used against me to question whether I was a true sister, truly called to the mission of the order. Loyalty was measured in terms of obedience - and I was happy to be obedient to God. Just not the humans who were trying to dictate what I should and should not know based on my obedience to THEM.. So I was usually one who asked a lot of annoying questions when a concept was given or an order came forth. Suffice it to say there were a lot of fear tactics used to keep us all in line.
        > There's more that I could say, but that's the basics.
        > I actually came accross Eckankar while I was in the order, but any association with it was strictly forbidden. I thought that Eck people were all these wonderful people who were going out of body doing spiritual work in what we used to call "the half-world". That was my cult's name for the place where people go when thay are not quite ready for the next plane of existance. It's got ghosts, and people who are still emotionally tied to people here on earth, or people who don't realize they have died, can't find the light, etc. Souls who are "stuck" for various reasons. So I decided to look Eckankar up again after all these years, but I came across your survivor site. Since I consider myself a cult survivor as well, I wanted to learn about you,and share what I also experienced with others.
        > Speaking of learning, I want to say that I did learn a lot from all the responses to my "Dead Horse" post.  I can see that I was way off the mark.  I see that the reasons you keep up the commentary on these people is not because you are "stuck" in it - I now understand the service you are providing for others so that they can begin to, or continue to question, and so that they have a place to go when they want to make the leap to get out.  Thanks to all who hung in there with me on this and were patient while I figured it out.
        > Peace,
        > Lonwakome aka nancy
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Nancy and All, Eckankar members see things somewhat differently, from your former cult experience, and, of course, Eckists use different terminology and
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 14 11:20 AM
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          Hello Nancy and All,
          Eckankar members see things somewhat differently,
          from your former cult experience, and, of course,
          Eckists use different terminology and jargon. However,
          the more objective viewer, via standing back from it all,
          sees that it is all just another "mind trick" of religion.

          The Eckankar teachings of Twitchell and the current
          leader, Rev. Klemp, teach that orthodox religion fails
          to satisfy the spiritual thirst of Truth/Spiritual Seekers,
          and, thus, they come to Eckankar and other cult groups.

          It is more than likely, however, that many people simply
          need the personal touch, a connection with others, and
          the attention that small groups and small groups (churches)
          can give. It's more "hands on" and personal where people
          can feel important, needed, and listened to.

          In other words, these small religious groups (cults), like
          Eckankar, fulfill the human and social need of "belonging"
          that the big orthodox religious cults are incapable of providing.
          Besides, many Eckists (isolated cultists) tend to be misfits
          of sorts, free thinkers, and skeptics. Yet, they are lulled in
          with interesting and unusual concepts and perspectives
          of life and of "death."

          It's interesting that the EK teachings state that Eckankar
          will be a World-Wide Religion known by all people. After
          28 years, with Klemp in-charge, how close are they?
          BTW- In a past World-Wide Census over 500,000 people
          listed "Jedi" as their religion! And, Eckankar has how many
          members... 50,000 maybe? This is an old number too! For
          some reason this member count, too, is a secret.

          There are actually FOUR (not three) Keys or Precepts to
          Eckankar that every Eckist is well aware of. They are as follows:

          The FOUR S's-

          1. Secrecy
          2. Silence
          3. Surrender
          4. Service

          The "Secrecy" involves not repeating or sharing information
          with others. Now, this just isn't with "spiritual" secrets
          that can "burn" another... it's, especially, with how the
          "business" of Eckankar is run! It has to do more with
          money and what people like HK, JK, and PS are paid and
          with the property (and bank accounts, stocks, etc.) that
          they (and Eckankar) own.

          Keeping "Silent," by following the Law of Silence, is key
          to being a "follower." It has a two-fold purpose in that
          the follower or believer (Eckist) feels that they are doing
          right (loyalty) and are demonstrating discipline. Klemp
          benefits because this is a control tactic that other religions
          and secret groups have used, over time, to manipulate
          their followers.

          "Surrender" means giving one's WILL over to another.
          It means that one (the follower) is to stop thinking about
          and analyzing Klemp's words beyond their one-dimensional
          content. It means stop questioning anything that is written
          by and approved by the leader (Klemp). And, the true
          (brain-washed) believer "knows" (second guesses) the
          LEM/Mahanta as to what is NOT to be to be said or repeated
          without it being spelled out in writing as a Spoken, (or
          Unspoken), Rule, Zoa, or Guideline!

          "Service" (in Eckankar) is KEY on many levels. One must
          be a "current" member in order to "Serve," and that means
          paying for that Annual Membership. Of course, donating
          time (to bring in new customers/members) and money
          (for materials) comes with this. It is said that one must
          have "outflow" in order to have "inflow." This "spiritual"
          concept, however, is not unique to Eckankar, although,
          many Eckists think it is entirely (EK) Divine Wisdom passed
          down from the "lineage" of Eck Masters (Twitchell's imagination
          and con). Eckists really need to read more!

          Except, Klemp does the chicken/egg switch around.
          Everything is of SPIRIT (ECK, trademark) and this has
          always existed. Therefore, even if a NON-EK Master
          (in the past) said something relevant or insightful HK
          can still claim it as having come from the ECK Masters!
          Look at the voyage of Columbus! EK Master Fubbi gave
          Columbus the idea that Europe needed "protein" and
          EK Master Rebazar was even onboard to guide Columbus
          to the Americas (not the U.S. however). But, Klemp
          never gives an explanation for the repercussions of
          these visits by Governor Columbus. Klemp never mentions
          the Negative results that Fubbi and Rebazar were involved
          with! Klemp tries to have it his way, once again, without
          taking responsibility or showing the Bigger Picture! Besides,
          Europe had even more sources for "protein" than the
          Americas did. The Americas didn't have the domesticated
          meat sources for one thing!

          Anyway, as I said in the beginning of these comments,
          people feel "special" and "safer" in small group settings
          and that's one reason why these cults have become more
          attractive by many spiritual seekers.

          Prometheus


          Hello, Nancy!

          Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your
          "Christian cult" experience. It also gives warning to those
          leaving one spiritual/religious group (like Eckankar) to watch
          out. So often when a person abandons one, he or she is eager
          to find something else to fill the void. There is danger in
          being duped and conned again.

          I think it is just evil to take over a person's life like these
          cults do. Belief is what people search for, something to
          hold onto, in figuring out what life and being is all about.
          For me, I believe in the importance of believing in oneself!
          When others take over and control a person, that belief in
          self is muddled and confused and basically lost.

          I'm glad you removed yourself from that group. It was very
          interesting to read what you wrote!

          Best regards,
          Mish


          nancy brunelle lonwakome wrote:
          >
          > Hello Again -
          > I was in what I would consider a local cult. The leader/instigator/perpetrator
          was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience began channeling
          material from someone named Phoebe who lived back in the day of the mystery
          religions in ancient Greece. It was all very secretive, and I was led to it
          through a friend. I made the mistake of confiding to her that I was having out
          of body experiences, and one of the experiences I described supposedly involved
          the entity who was doing the channeling for the group. The group was for
          Christian women, who were the leaders, but in reality the pastor had control, as
          he was the one who would receive the "messages" from Phoebe. There were levels
          of "advancement" that were controlled by Phoebe, and the pastor, and the elder
          sisters in the group. I was considered to have a great spiritual gift, but
          first I had to meet all the qualifications and be advanced. Ironically, one of
          the first requirements for me was that I cease all unauthorized out of body
          travel.
          (are you getting the picture here?) It was all about control, control, CONTROL,
          and if I was allowed to communicate with Phoebe directly, I would know all the
          "secrets" - which could be very dangerous if the "enemy" got a hold of them!!!
          The Enemy were those spirits out in the ethers who were bent on destroying the
          work that Phoebe was trying to accomplish here on Earth, you see....

          > Needless to say, the originator of the group saw nothing positive in me,
          and blocked my advancement every chance he got. He never figured out that
          he really had nothing to fear from me - I wasn't out to expose him, and I let
          him know that on several occasions, but that only fueled his distaste. I just
          wanted to share the teachings, and deepen my own spirituality. I had little
          use for all the trappings and the mind games. That was another thing that
          he used against me to question whether I was a true sister, truly called to the
          mission of the order. Loyalty was measured in terms of obedience - and I was
          happy to be obedient to God. Just not the humans who were trying to dictate
          what I should and should not know based on my obedience to THEM..
          So I was usually one who asked a lot of annoying questions when a concept
          was given or an order came forth. Suffice it to say there were a lot of fear
          tactics used to keep us all in line.

          > There's more that I could say, but that's the basics.

          > I actually came accross Eckankar while I was in the order, but any association
          with it was strictly forbidden. I thought that Eck people were all these
          wonderful people who were going out of body doing spiritual work in what
          we used to call "the half-world". That was my cult's name for the place where
          people go when thay are not quite ready for the next plane of existance. It's
          got ghosts, and people who are still emotionally tied to people here on earth,
          or people who don't realize they have died, can't find the light, etc. Souls who
          are "stuck" for various reasons. So I decided to look Eckankar up again after
          all these years, but I came across your survivor site. Since I consider myself
          a cult survivor as well, I wanted to learn about you, and share what I also
          experienced with others.

          > Speaking of learning, I want to say that I did learn a lot from all the
          responses to my "Dead Horse" post. I can see that I was way off the mark.
          I see that the reasons you keep up the commentary on these people is not
          because you are "stuck" in it - I now understand the service you are providing
          for others so that they can begin to, or continue to question, and so that they
          have a place to go when they want to make the leap to get out. Thanks to all
          who hung in there with me on this and were patient while I figured it out.

          > Peace,
          > Lonwakome aka nancy
          >
        • etznab@aol.com
          Have you included this site in your links section? http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/ I came across it the other
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 14 4:04 PM
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            Have you included this site in your links section?

            http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/

            I came across it the other day. It reads a lot like
            E.S.A., only the members are from another group.

            The archive section begins here:

            http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2009 1:20 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: My Cult Experience & EK Think








            Hello Nancy and All,

            Eckankar members see things somewhat differently,

            from your former cult experience, and, of course,

            Eckists use different terminology and jargon. However,

            the more objective viewer, via standing back from it all,

            sees that it is all just another "mind trick" of religion.



            The Eckankar teachings of Twitchell and the current

            leader, Rev. Klemp, teach that orthodox religion fails

            to satisfy the spiritual thirst of Truth/Spiritual Seekers,

            and, thus, they come to Eckankar and other cult groups.



            It is more than likely, however, that many people simply

            need the personal touch, a connection with others, and

            the attention that small groups and small groups (churches)

            can give. It's more "hands on" and personal where people

            can feel important, needed, and listened to.




            In other words, these small religious groups (cults), like

            Eckankar, fulfill the human and social need of "belonging"

            that the big orthodox religious cults are incapable of providing.

            Besides, many Eckists (isolated cultists) tend to be misfits

            of sorts, free thinkers, and skeptics. Yet, they are lulled in

            with interesting and unusual concepts and perspectives

            of life and of "death."



            It's interesting that the EK teachings state that Eckankar

            will be a World-Wide Religion known by all people. After

            28 years, with Klemp in-charge, how close are they?

            BTW- In a past World-Wide Census over 500,000 people

            listed "Jedi" as their religion! And, Eckankar has how many

            members... 50,000 maybe? This is an old number too! For

            some reason this member count, too, is a secret.



            There are actually FOUR (not three) Keys or Precepts to

            Eckankar that every Eckist is well aware of. They are as follows:



            The FOUR S's-



            1. Secrecy

            2. Silence

            3. Surrender

            4. Service



            The "Secrecy" involves not repeating or sharing information

            with others. Now, this just isn't with "spiritual" secrets

            that can "burn" another... it's, especially, with how the

            "business" of Eckankar is run! It has to do more with

            money and what people like HK, JK, and PS are paid and

            with the property (and bank accounts, stocks, etc.) that

            they=2
            0(and Eckankar) own.



            Keeping "Silent," by following the Law of Silence, is key

            to being a "follower." It has a two-fold purpose in that

            the follower or believer (Eckist) feels that they are doing

            right (loyalty) and are demonstrating discipline. Klemp

            benefits because this is a control tactic that other religions

            and secret groups have used, over time, to manipulate

            their followers.



            "Surrender" means giving one's WILL over to another.

            It means that one (the follower) is to stop thinking about

            and analyzing Klemp's words beyond their one-dimensional

            content. It means stop questioning anything that is written

            by and approved by the leader (Klemp). And, the true

            (brain-washed) believer "knows" (second guesses) the

            LEM/Mahanta as to what is NOT to be to be said or repeated

            without it being spelled out in writing as a Spoken, (or

            Unspoken), Rule, Zoa, or Guideline!



            "Service" (in Eckankar) is KEY on many levels. One must

            be a "current" member in order to "Serve," and that means

            paying for that Annual Membership. Of course, donating

            time (to bring in new customers/members) and money

            (for materials) comes with this. It is said that one must

            have "outflow" in order to have "inflow." This "spiritual"

            concept, however, is not unique to Eckankar, although,

            many Eckists think it is entirely (EK) Divine Wisdom passed

            down from the "lineag
            e" of Eck Masters (Twitchell's imagination

            and con). Eckists really need to read more!



            Except, Klemp does the chicken/egg switch around.

            Everything is of SPIRIT (ECK, trademark) and this has

            always existed. Therefore, even if a NON-EK Master

            (in the past) said something relevant or insightful HK

            can still claim it as having come from the ECK Masters!

            Look at the voyage of Columbus! EK Master Fubbi gave

            Columbus the idea that Europe needed "protein" and

            EK Master Rebazar was even onboard to guide Columbus

            to the Americas (not the U.S. however). But, Klemp

            never gives an explanation for the repercussions of

            these visits by Governor Columbus. Klemp never mentions

            the Negative results that Fubbi and Rebazar were involved

            with! Klemp tries to have it his way, once again, without

            taking responsibility or showing the Bigger Picture! Besides,

            Europe had even more sources for "protein" than the

            Americas did. The Americas didn't have the domesticated

            meat sources for one thing!



            Anyway, as I said in the beginning of these comments,

            people feel "special" and "safer" in small group settings

            and that's one reason why these cults have become more

            attractive by many spiritual seekers.



            Prometheus



            Hello, Nancy!



            Thank you so much for sharing the highlights of your

            "Christian cult" experience. It also gives warning to tho
            se

            leaving one spiritual/religious group (like Eckankar) to watch

            out. So often when a person abandons one, he or she is eager

            to find something else to fill the void. There is danger in

            being duped and conned again.



            I think it is just evil to take over a person's life like these

            cults do. Belief is what people search for, something to

            hold onto, in figuring out what life and being is all about.

            For me, I believe in the importance of believing in oneself!

            When others take over and control a person, that belief in

            self is muddled and confused and basically lost.



            I'm glad you removed yourself from that group. It was very

            interesting to read what you wrote!



            Best regards,

            Mish



            nancy brunelle lonwakome wrote:

            >

            > Hello Again -

            > I was in what I would consider a local cult. The
            leader/instigator/perpetrator

            was a local pastor who, after some kind of spiritual experience began
            channeling

            material from someone named Phoebe who lived back in the day of the
            mystery

            religions in ancient Greece. It was all very secretive, and I was led
            to it

            through a friend. I made the mistake of confiding to her that I was
            having out

            of body experiences, and one of the experiences I described supposedly
            involved

            the entity who was doing the channeling for the group. The group was for0D

            Christian women, who were the leaders, but in reality the pastor had
            control, as

            he was the one who would receive the "messages" from Phoebe. There were
            levels

            of "advancement" that were controlled by Phoebe, and the pastor, and
            the elder

            sisters in the group. I was considered to have a great spiritual gift,
            but

            first I had to meet all the qualifications and be advanced. Ironically,
            one of

            the first requirements for me was that I cease all unauthorized out of
            body

            travel.

            (are you getting the picture here?) It was all about control, control,
            CONTROL,

            and if I was allowed to communicate with Phoebe directly, I would know
            all the

            "secrets" - which could be very dangerous if the "enemy" got a hold of
            them!!!

            The Enemy were those spirits out in the ethers who were bent on
            destroying the

            work that Phoebe was trying to accomplish here on Earth, you see....



            > Needless to say, the originator of the group saw nothing positive
            in me,

            and blocked my advancement every chance he got. He never figured out
            that

            he really had nothing to fear from me - I wasn't out to expose him, and
            I let

            him know that on several occasions, but that only fueled his distaste.
            I just

            wanted to share the teachings, and deepen my own spirituality. I had
            little

            use for all the trappings and the mind games. That was anoth
            er thing
            that

            he used against me to question whether I was a true sister, truly
            called to the

            mission of the order. Loyalty was measured in terms of obedience - and
            I was

            happy to be obedient to God. Just not the humans who were trying to
            dictate

            what I should and should not know based on my obedience to THEM..

            So I was usually one who asked a lot of annoying questions when a
            concept

            was given or an order came forth. Suffice it to say there were a lot of
            fear

            tactics used to keep us all in line.



            > There's more that I could say, but that's the basics.



            > I actually came accross Eckankar while I was in the order, but any
            association

            with it was strictly forbidden. I thought that Eck people were all these

            wonderful people who were going out of body doing spiritual work in what

            we used to call "the half-world". That was my cult's name for the place
            where

            people go when thay are not quite ready for the next plane of
            existance. It's

            got ghosts, and people who are still emotionally tied to people here on
            earth,

            or people who don't realize they have died, can't find the light, etc.
            Souls who

            are "stuck" for various reasons. So I decided to look Eckankar up again
            after

            all these years, but I came across your survivor site. Since I consider
            myself

            a cult survivor as well, I=2
            0wanted to learn about you, and share what I
            also

            experienced with others.



            > Speaking of learning, I want to say that I did learn a lot from
            all the

            responses to my "Dead Horse" post. I can see that I was way off the
            mark.

            I see that the reasons you keep up the commentary on these people is not

            because you are "stuck" in it - I now understand the service you are
            providing

            for others so that they can begin to, or continue to question, and so
            that they

            have a place to go when they want to make the leap to get out. Thanks
            to all

            who hung in there with me on this and were patient while I figured it
            out.



            > Peace,

            > Lonwakome aka nancy

            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Etznab, This is interesting as is reading about the Tao. But, I m familiar with this path and, once again, one (Soul) needs to become their own
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 14 10:38 PM
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              Hello Etznab,
              This is interesting as is reading about the Tao.
              But, I'm familiar with this "path" and, once again,
              one (Soul) needs to become their own teacher.
              And, if people are not peer (Soul = Soul) then
              it all just becomes another religion with an "expert"
              in charge.

              Speaking of Klemp... I saw that in Mexico a man,
              Jesus Malverde, is worshipped because he helped
              the poor (like Robin Hood). There are even miracles
              attributed to him and he provides "protection" for
              the drug dealers. He is called the Narco Saint.

              What "Miracles" are attributed to Klemp? And who
              has HK "protected?" I know that he didn't perform
              any Miracles or offer Protection to those H.I.s who
              have died from Cancer in the last couple of years.

              I'll add the Church of the Churchless to the LINKS.

              Prometheus



              etznab wrote:
              >
              >
              > Have you included this site in your links section?

              http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/

              *******************************************************

              *BTW Etznab, here's another article (below) with
              a different perspective that addresses the above one
              that you listed. IMO- One can play golf, ride a bike, etc.
              and experience the same "spiritual" benefits as with
              Tai Chi or with the Qi. This would be the true Tao...
              which is individual.

              http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2009/07/tai-chi-doesnt-have-much-to-do-with-qi.html

              ********************************************************

              I came across it the other day. It reads a lot like
              E.S.A., only the members are from another group.
              >
              > The archive section begins here:
              >
              http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html
              >
              > Etznab

              >
              > Hello Nancy and All,
              >
              > Eckankar members see things somewhat differently,
              >
              > from your former cult experience, and, of course,
              >
              > Eckists use different terminology and jargon. However,
              >
              > the more objective viewer, via standing back from it all,
              >
              > sees that it is all just another "mind trick" of religion.
              >
              >
              >
              > The Eckankar teachings of Twitchell and the current
              >
              > leader, Rev. Klemp, teach that orthodox religion fails
              >
              > to satisfy the spiritual thirst of Truth/Spiritual Seekers,
              >
              > and, thus, they come to Eckankar and other cult groups.
              >
              >
              >
              > It is more than likely, however, that many people simply
              >
              > need the personal touch, a connection with others, and
              >
              > the attention that small groups and small groups (churches)
              >
              > can give. It's more "hands on" and personal where people
              >
              > can feel important, needed, and listened to.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > In other words, these small religious groups (cults), like
              >
              > Eckankar, fulfill the human and social need of "belonging"
              >
              > that the big orthodox religious cults are incapable of providing.
              >
              > Besides, many Eckists (isolated cultists) tend to be misfits
              >
              > of sorts, free thinkers, and skeptics. Yet, they are lulled in
              >
              > with interesting and unusual concepts and perspectives
              >
              > of life and of "death."
              >
              >
              >
              > It's interesting that the EK teachings state that Eckankar
              >
              > will be a World-Wide Religion known by all people. After
              >
              > 28 years, with Klemp in-charge, how close are they?
              >
              > BTW- In a past World-Wide Census over 500,000 people
              >
              > listed "Jedi" as their religion! And, Eckankar has how many
              >
              > members... 50,000 maybe? This is an old number too! For
              >
              > some reason this member count, too, is a secret.
              >
              >
              >
              > There are actually FOUR (not three) Keys or Precepts to
              >
              > Eckankar that every Eckist is well aware of. They are as follows:
              >
              >
              >
              > The FOUR S's-
              >
              >
              >
              > 1. Secrecy
              >
              > 2. Silence
              >
              > 3. Surrender
              >
              > 4. Service
              >
              >
              >
              > The "Secrecy" involves not repeating or sharing information
              >
              > with others. Now, this just isn't with "spiritual" secrets
              >
              > that can "burn" another... it's, especially, with how the
              >
              > "business" of Eckankar is run! It has to do more with
              >
              > money and what people like HK, JK, and PS are paid and
              >
              > with the property (and bank accounts, stocks, etc.) that
              >
              > they (and Eckankar) own.
              >
              >
              >
              > Keeping "Silent," by following the Law of Silence, is key
              >
              > to being a "follower." It has a two-fold purpose in that
              >
              > the follower or believer (Eckist) feels that they are doing
              >
              > right (loyalty) and are demonstrating discipline. Klemp
              >
              > benefits because this is a control tactic that other religions
              >
              > and secret groups have used, over time, to manipulate
              >
              > their followers.
              >
              >
              >
              > "Surrender" means giving one's WILL over to another.
              >
              > It means that one (the follower) is to stop thinking about
              >
              > and analyzing Klemp's words beyond their one-dimensional
              >
              > content. It means stop questioning anything that is written
              >
              > by and approved by the leader (Klemp). And, the true
              >
              > (brain-washed) believer "knows" (second guesses) the
              >
              > LEM/Mahanta as to what is NOT to be to be said or repeated
              >
              > without it being spelled out in writing as a Spoken, (or
              >
              > Unspoken), Rule, Zoa, or Guideline!
              >
              >
              >
              > "Service" (in Eckankar) is KEY on many levels. One must
              >
              > be a "current" member in order to "Serve," and that means
              >
              > paying for that Annual Membership. Of course, donating
              >
              > time (to bring in new customers/members) and money
              >
              > (for materials) comes with this. It is said that one must
              >
              > have "outflow" in order to have "inflow." This "spiritual"
              >
              > concept, however, is not unique to Eckankar, although,
              >
              > many Eckists think it is entirely (EK) Divine Wisdom passed
              >
              > down from the "lineage" of Eck Masters (Twitchell's imagination
              >
              > and con). Eckists really need to read more!
              >
              >
              >
              > Except, Klemp does the chicken/egg switch around.
              >
              > Everything is of SPIRIT (ECK, trademark) and this has
              >
              > always existed. Therefore, even if a NON-EK Master
              >
              > (in the past) said something relevant or insightful HK
              >
              > can still claim it as having come from the ECK Masters!
              >
              > Look at the voyage of Columbus! EK Master Fubbi gave
              >
              > Columbus the idea that Europe needed "protein" and
              >
              > EK Master Rebazar was even onboard to guide Columbus
              >
              > to the Americas (not the U.S. however). But, Klemp
              >
              > never gives an explanation for the repercussions of
              >
              > these visits by Governor Columbus. Klemp never mentions
              >
              > the Negative results that Fubbi and Rebazar were involved
              >
              > with! Klemp tries to have it his way, once again, without
              >
              > taking responsibility or showing the Bigger Picture! Besides,
              >
              > Europe had even more sources for "protein" than the
              >
              > Americas did. The Americas didn't have the domesticated
              >
              > meat sources for one thing!
              >
              >
              >
              > Anyway, as I said in the beginning of these comments,
              >
              > people feel "special" and "safer" in small group settings
              >
              > and that's one reason why these cults have become more
              >
              > attractive by many spiritual seekers.
              >
              >
              >
              > Prometheus
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab and All, I found more interesting info on this site about the origination of the ECKankar Teachings. Radha Soami Satsang Beas was founded by
              Message 6 of 6 , Jul 15 11:09 AM
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                Hello Etznab and All,
                I found more interesting info on this site about
                the origination of the ECKankar Teachings. Radha
                Soami Satsang Beas was founded by Kirpal Singh's
                Master [Kirpal was Paul Twitchell's real Master (aka
                Sudar Singh, Rebazar Tarzs) from 1955-1965].
                Kirpal split from Radha Soami and founded Ruhani
                Satsang and died (age 80) three years after Twitchell
                (age 63) in 1974.

                http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2004/11/index.html

                From the Church of the Churchless:

                We all want to belong.

                The Church of the Churchless welcomes those who
                feel like they don't belong, even if they are members
                of an organized religion or spiritual faith.

                You can be a member and not belong. You can sit
                through a communal service, sermon, celebration,
                or cermony, and still say to yourself: I don't belong
                here. You are going through the outward motions
                of what it means to be a member, but deep down you
                know that somewhere else is your real spiritual home.

                A lot of people feel this way. No one is alone in feeling
                alone. The big questions we all need to ask are:

                What am I missing?

                And: Can any organization give it to me?

                Every person has to come to grips with these questions
                by himself or herself. That said, here are my own pithy
                answers:

                Reality and No.

                By "reality," I mean a direct experience of what is really,
                really, real--what lasts when everything else passes away.
                Let's call this "God" for lack of a better term.

                If I am to experience God, where will this occur?

                Where every other experience of mine occurs:
                in my consciousness. The same is true for you,
                and for every other person on Earth.

                Nothing is real for us except what we consciously experience.

                A religious organization provides experiences of--
                no surprise here--a religious organization.

                What else would we expect?

                Well, many people illogically believe that an experience
                of something that isn't God can substitute for the real
                thing. It can't. God is God. Ultimate reality is ultimate
                reality.

                Everything else is everything else.

                So if you want to truly belong to God, to reality, you
                can't belong to anything else. For that thing will water
                down your experience of God to a greater or lesser
                degree. Usually greater, because our natural tendency
                is to cling tightly to the familiar rather than embrace
                mystery. And God is the ultimate Mystery.

                Bottom line: you can join the Church of the Churchless.

                Even more: you must join the Church of the Churchless
                if you want to know God.

                But this joining is wholly within you, not without.
                There are no application forms to fill out, no dues
                to be paid, no initiation ceremonies to be gone through.

                You are the Church of the Churchless. So am I.
                And so is everyone who wants to experience reality
                rather than religion, truth rather than dogma, substance
                rather than shadows.

                Each of us must make a choice. You or I can say,
                "I am a Christian," "I am a Muslim," "I am a Buddhist,"
                "I am a Hindu," "I am a Wiccan," "I am a Taoist," or whatever
                other faith [Eckankar] we subscribe to at the moment.

                The other option is to simply say with conviction, "I am."
                Do that, and you have joined the Church of the Churchless.
                Welcome. You belong. We have a lot to share.
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