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  • Sharon
    Hi Nancy - I think I know what you could say, and don t think it would necessarily be misinterpreted. I understand. And please don t take my sort of snippy
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 9, 2009
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      Hi Nancy -

      I think I know what you could say, and don't think it would necessarily be misinterpreted. I understand. And please don't take my sort of "snippy" response to your other post personally - I responded the way I did because what you wrote is the same thing I've seen many times before, written by cult members who are trying to shame former members into silence, although I undertand that wasn't necessarily your intent, and I know how the same words can mean something "good".

      In fact, just yesterday I read a good post over at X-Chains about anger & how former cult members need to be able to express anger & other emotions, or words to that effect.

      The thing is, you (and many others) often see "anger and bitterness" where it doesn't necessarily exist. Or, if it does, it's certainly entirely appropriate and far from all-consuming. In my own case, when I woke up and got out quite publicly at alt.religion.eckankar, what was quite fairly perceived as vile, vicious venom-spewing was simply my own way of defending myself and making it quite clear that I was NOT a wimp who could be silenced and shamed away by the eckthug tactics that worked for so many others - ranging from those phony passive-aggressive insults disguised as caring & concern all the way to death threats, threats against my family, and real-world stalking.

      Anyway, I still have to laugh, because many times when I was ranting & raving over at a.r.e., and SCREAMING and YELLING and hurling obscenities, I was really just ROFLMAO.

      And it's amazing and sort of pitiful, but you might be amazed at how eckists pretend to be non-eckists and "infiltrate" former members' groups, and other sneaky things which they're also fond of accusing others of doing - like back when I was in the EckGestapo, I was shocked at how they were so hell-bent on tracking & identifying people who posted with pseudos. What a sneaky disgusting bunch!! I'll tell ya, eckists themselves were actually more of a factor in my waking up & leaving than the facts about plagiarism were back then!

      Okay, at first finding out the truth was sort of like having a perfect marriage then coming home and catching my spouse in bed having sex with a dog. I was deeply hurt, but angry & bitter has never been my "thing". Life's too short to waste time on such things. But everyone's different, and everyone has to feel what they feel and work it out in their own way, in their own time.

      You probably wouldn't believe the hundreds of people I've heard from over the years who were just so beaten down and frightened. Even members who had left the cult years before the internet and thought they were the only ones, and were still crushed and frightened.

      So, nowadays it's a lot easier for people to find "truthful" information, and see others who have left and recovered, and just talk about the whole experience either publicly or privately.

      So, when someone writes something like you did, I will respond as I did on behalf of those who are going to be hurt by your words and will interpret them as they're so often used by controlling nasty cult members.

      We all go on to have free, full & rich lives - but my own "spirituality" is a personal & private thing now, although I express some of my current thoughts & "beliefs" online. I'm a lot more careful & protective of myself now. And ekult is such a tiny part of my life & thoughts now, it barely counts, except I remind myself that altho it's "old" for me, there are many others out there who are just the way I was when I first got on the internet.

      Well, I've spent too much time here at the computer today, and right now the main thing on my mind is whether to stir-fry my first zucchini or let it grow bigger so I can bread it & fry it!! And I've got baby tomatoes!!!!!!!!! Sent for seeds this year from Rutgers, which are supposed to have that good old-fashioned Jersey tomato flavor. I haven't gardened for quite a few years, can't even remember the last time I had a really good tomato, even the Amish farmers have been using crappy commercial "English" seeds in recent years, a local "farmstand" I've patronized for 20 years turns out to be getting their produce from the same NY nursery where everyone else gets it, the farmer told me they were trying to go back to the "old ways" since evidently I'm not the only one who's complaining. Hey, if they're going to charge high prices, they'd better have better veggies than what I can buy at Walmart!

      Anyway, Nancy, I'm glad you eventually recovered from your own cult experience. But I'm sort of wondering why you ended up here at this group? Sorry, maybe you've posted that and I just don't remember - I know I found it very helpful years ago to visit other former cult member sites. It really helped me to recover, to realize that all cults are basically the same, and to learn how to recover myself.

      Okay, have a great week, everyone!

      Hugs,

      Sharon



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, nancy brunelle <lonwakome@...> wrote:
      >
      > Wow.
      > There's a lot I could say, but I suspect that it would be misinterpreted. I will clarify that I have never been a member of eckankar. I just know a cult whan I see one because as I said- I had a very similar experinece in a different cult. there was the same "carrot-dangling" to get you to capitulate to what others thought you should (or shouldn't) be doing. There were favorites, and those who were "advanced" because the leaders took a liking to them.  It was all very human-centered, filled with illusions, special secret names and rituals, levels of advancement, etc - and many were hurt. I was very angry about it all for a very long time, and much of my young life ws spent under the veil of that illusion.  But my anger held me back spiritually almost as much as those in the cult did. I guess what I responded to was the bitterness and anger that I was hearing. You are all good people, with a lot of courage, and I admire and respect what you are doing. 
      > Recovery is never easy, and I would never intend to suggest that anyone "suck it up and just deal". I was just concerned that all the negativity was keeping you tied to these self-serving idiots who steal and hoarde what rightfully belongs to all of us. Our heriage as spiritually created beings.
      > Prometheus - I'm with you on the public praying thing. Yuck. I am very wary of any fundamentalist religion, and i probably would have openly embarassed the man at table with you.  I feel that strongly about it. I am glad you are all speaking out on these things, it gives others the courage they need to get out of the bad places they went to all because they trusted someone with their spiritual welfare. I think there must be a very special place reserved for those who knowingly do spiritual damage to others for their own evil ends...
      > Peace to all of you,
      > Lonwakome
      >
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Nancy and All! I haven t been posting too much over the last several months but I do keep reading this site. The thing is ESA plays an important part in
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 9, 2009
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        Hi, Nancy and All!

        I haven't been posting too much over the last several
        months but I do keep reading this site. The thing is ESA
        plays an important part in keeping the truth about eckankar
        and other cults available and current for anyone seeking
        information. Prometheus and other posters are doing a good
        service in continuing the discussions and unveiling the truth.
        Anger is not the big picture here--rather it is truth! I'm not
        angry with having been duped, but I do feel rather foolish
        for the time I spent reading HK's dumb books and attending
        the silly eck functions, not to mention the dollars I through
        out there for the feeding of the scam. I actually can laugh
        at my silliness! But it is also very sad that so many otherwise
        intelligent people have been hoodwinked and continue to
        allow their lives to be constrained and controlled by eckankar
        and it's nerdy, unexceptional leader--HK!

        Nancy, I think you misinterpreted the purpose and the
        discussions on this site . . . and yes, I can understand why
        that might be the case, because frankly I can't see anything
        positive about my eck experiences.

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, nancy brunelle <lonwakome@...> wrote:
        >
        > Wow.
        > There's a lot I could say, but I suspect that it would be misinterpreted. I will clarify that I have never been a member of eckankar. I just know a cult whan I see one because as I said- I had a very similar experinece in a different cult. there was the same "carrot-dangling" to get you to capitulate to what others thought you should (or shouldn't) be doing. There were favorites, and those who were "advanced" because the leaders took a liking to them.  It was all very human-centered, filled with illusions, special secret names and rituals, levels of advancement, etc - and many were hurt. I was very angry about it all for a very long time, and much of my young life ws spent under the veil of that illusion.  But my anger held me back spiritually almost as much as those in the cult did. I guess what I responded to was the bitterness and anger that I was hearing. You are all good people, with a lot of courage, and I admire and respect what you are doing. 
        > Recovery is never easy, and I would never intend to suggest that anyone "suck it up and just deal". I was just concerned that all the negativity was keeping you tied to these self-serving idiots who steal and hoarde what rightfully belongs to all of us. Our heriage as spiritually created beings.
        > Prometheus - I'm with you on the public praying thing. Yuck. I am very wary of any fundamentalist religion, and i probably would have openly embarassed the man at table with you.  I feel that strongly about it. I am glad you are all speaking out on these things, it gives others the courage they need to get out of the bad places they went to all because they trusted someone with their spiritual welfare. I think there must be a very special place reserved for those who knowingly do spiritual damage to others for their own evil ends...
        > Peace to all of you,
        > Lonwakome
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Nancy, Okay, now you ve got my curiosity going. What was/were the name(s) of the cult(s) that you belonged to? How long were you a member (of each)? Can
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 9, 2009
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          Hello Nancy,
          Okay, now you've got my curiosity going.

          What was/were the name(s) of the cult(s)
          that you belonged to?

          How long were you a member (of each)?

          Can you name or compare other similarities
          with it (those) and the leader(s) to Twitchell,
          Gross & Klemp and to the EK org?

          Thanks for posting and please share more!

          Prometheus



          Nancy wrote:
          Wow.
          There's a lot I could say, but I suspect that it would be misinterpreted.

          I will clarify that I have never been a member of eckankar.
          I just know a cult whan I see one because as I said-

          I had a very similar experinece in a different cult.
          there was the same "carrot-dangling" to get you to
          capitulate to what others thought you should (or shouldn't)
          be doing. There were favorites, and those who were "advanced"
          because the leaders took a liking to them. It was all very human-
          centered, filled with illusions, special secret names and rituals,
          levels of advancement, etc - and many were hurt. I was very
          angry about it all for a very long time, and much of my young
          life ws spent under the veil of that illusion.

          But my anger held me back spiritually almost as much as
          those in the cult did. I guess what I responded to was the
          bitterness and anger that I was hearing. You are all good
          people, with a lot of courage, and I admire and respect what
          you are doing. Recovery is never easy, and I would never
          intend to suggest that anyone "suck it up and just deal".

          I was just concerned that all the negativity was keeping
          you tied to these self-serving idiots who steal and hoarde
          what rightfully belongs to all of us. Our heriage as spiritually
          created beings.

          Prometheus - I'm with you on the public praying thing.
          Yuck. I am very wary of any fundamentalist religion, and
          i probably would have openly embarassed the man at
          table with you. I feel that strongly about it. I am glad
          you are all speaking out on these things, it gives others
          the courage they need to get out of the bad places they
          went to all because they trusted someone with their spiritual
          welfare. I think there must be a very special place reserved
          for those who knowingly do spiritual damage to others
          for their own evil ends...

          Peace to all of you,
          Lonwakome
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