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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] More 2004 TS Comments by Doug Marman

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Recently, after going over Dialogues With The Master and The Tiger s Fang, then studying my timeline, I had this sneaky suspicion that Rebazar Tarzs may not
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 30, 2009
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      Recently, after going over Dialogues
      With The Master and The Tiger's Fang,
      then studying my timeline, I had this
      sneaky suspicion that Rebazar Tarzs
      may not have actually been created
      until 1964. That the first manuscript
      "really" dictated by him was The Far
      Country!

      What I mean by "really", is that I am
      curious whether Paul didn't "first make"
      Rebazar Tarzs the reported dictator for
      one of his books when he wrote The Far
      Country. If this were true, then it could
      mean the name Rebazar Tarzs was retro-
      actively added to the previous two manu-
      scripts from 1956 and 1957. Dialogues
      With The Master and The Tiger's Fang.

      No way can I prove it beyond a doubt
      at this time, but I am suspicious (and for
      various reasons) whether The Far Country
      was "the first" book allegedly dictated by
      Rebazar Tarzs. This is what the timeline
      appears to show.

      BTW, thanks for posting those T.S.
      posts.

      Etznab


      Etznab


      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, Jun 29, 2009 11:25 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] More 2004 TS Comments by Doug
      Marman








      These are Doug Marman's comments

      and responses to questions posed to

      him from 2/3/2004-2/9/2004 on Ford

      Johnson's thetruth-seeker BB.



      Subject: Another Response to Ford From Doug Marman





      DM: "In fact, Paul hadn't published any

      of his teachings or his experiences about

      his teachers before 1963. So the names

      Sudar Singh and Rebazar Tarzs appear

      for the first time right alongside the

      names Kirpal Singh and Swami Premananda

      and others...



      I am not trying to say that this proves that

      Sudar Singh or Rebazar Tarzs were real people.

      In fact, I have seen no evidence to prove this

      matter one way or the other." [2/3/2004]



      Subject: A Few Responses



      The following are Marman's responses to

      certain questions posed to him. DM will,

      at times, also include the full question.



      FYI: Previously, Marman stated that he does

      not give "Yes" or "No" answers.



      "3. Did Paul Twitchell copy other writers

      works?"



      DM: "Yes. Well, I guess that I can give yes

      or no answers sometimes."



      "4. Did Paul Twitchell use other writers words

      and put his Eck masters names on them as if

      the Eck Master were saying them?



      DM: "Yes"



      These next DM responses were to (me) Nacal

      (aka Usually Skeptical).



      DM: "You seem to be right. Paul didn't use

      the word, Mahanta, until the January 1969

      Illuminated Way Letter and the February 1969

      Wisdom Note.... This is interesting. Thanks

      for pointing it out."



      FYI: Actually, it was the Jan
      uary 1, 1969

      Wisdom Notes where Twit first used the

      word "Mahanta."



      ***

      DM: "You wrote: 'Is what Harold teaches

      (Eckankar) a myth? Since I brought this

      subject up can you tell me if the Holocaust

      was a myth or not?'"



      DM: "Yes, I would say that a lot of what is

      taught about Eckankar is a myth.



      Yes, I think a lot of what people think about

      the Holocaust is made up of myth as well...

      History is largely made up of myth."

      ***



      DM: "I think he liked the idea that his past

      was mysterious, and he helped to create

      this mysterious past. Yes, Paul is only known

      to the world as Peddar Zaskq because he told

      the world that was his spiritual name.



      And yes, this is the kind of writing that is

      mythological. Did you think I would say

      something else?"



      DM: "You ask, 'Are the initiations in Eckankar

      valid as a means to greater spiritual growth

      over those who are non-Eckists? Or, is this

      a myth too?'"



      DM: "I think the initiations are a mixed bag...

      they have become mixed with myths as well.

      I can tell you that Self-Realization is rare,

      HI or not. The initiation level doesn't prove

      anything. I don't think that anyone should

      be judging another person's worth or truth

      by what initiation level they are at. Including

      the
      Master."



      ME: I, also, asked why Klemp hadn't gone

      to the "Astral Library" to finish Book 3 of the

      Shariyat that Paul had begun as he stated on

      page 136 of "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living

      ECK Master."



      DM: "I think that Harold thought about completing

      book three but for some reason decided it wasn't

      his place to do so. i would be surprised if Harold

      ever finishes book three, or tries to." [2/9/2004]



      ME: Nice second guessing! Why wouldn't the

      14th Plane M/LEM be able to go the the Astral

      Library and copy the rest of the Lower Plane

      Shariyats? Hmmmmm. Maybe it's because HK's

      powers are all Mythological!



      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, One thing that we know for sure is that Rebazar and the other EK Masters are merely a lie created by Twitchell s devious mind and, now, is Klemp s
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 2, 2009
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        Hello All,
        One thing that we know for sure is
        that Rebazar and the other EK Masters
        are merely a lie created by Twitchell's
        devious mind and, now, is Klemp's lie!

        If there was any truth to there being
        500 year old (and older) EK Masters
        still having their same "original" physical
        body then why did Twitchell die unexpectedly
        and why has Klemp aged so rapidly?
        This is just one more lie that ECKists
        can't see because they need to believe.
        ECKists both recall and imagine selected
        tid-bits of generic New Age speak (with
        EK jargon added) to get them through
        life. But, this is how all religions work!
        That's the irony! ECKists think they're
        so "spiritually advanced" when they have
        simply narrowed their focus and their
        minds!

        BTW Etznab-
        It could be that you're correct. This
        one particular lie, Rebazar Tarzs, was
        created in 1964 and just prior to PT
        making EKankar into a business org.
        in 1965. Twit did a lot of tweaking
        and back-tracking in order to work
        out the details and develop the "con"
        overtime. Twit was still changing things
        around and denying the truth up to his
        death. Thus, this is the reason why the
        earlier "bi-location" idea later became
        "soul travel" and why the word "Mahanta"
        (the Top goD) doesn't show up in print
        until the January 1, 1969 Wisdom
        Notes.

        I think it's funny how he conned Gail
        and Patti about his age and not wanting
        to give his true birthdate by making up
        some stupid excuses that they believed!
        They thought it was funny and giggled
        every time he lied about his age or birthdate.
        I guess the last laugh was on them after
        he died and they found out that he was
        hiding his true age and that PT was actually
        32 or 33 years older than Gail!

        Prometheus



        Etznab wrote:
        Recently, after going over Dialogues
        With The Master and The Tiger's Fang,
        then studying my timeline, I had this
        sneaky suspicion that Rebazar Tarzs
        may not have actually been created
        until 1964. That the first manuscript
        "really" dictated by him was The Far
        Country!

        What I mean by "really", is that I am
        curious whether Paul didn't "first make"
        Rebazar Tarzs the reported dictator for
        one of his books when he wrote The Far
        Country. If this were true, then it could
        mean the name Rebazar Tarzs was retro-
        actively added to the previous two manu-
        scripts from 1956 and 1957. Dialogues
        With The Master and The Tiger's Fang.

        No way can I prove it beyond a doubt
        at this time, but I am suspicious (and for
        various reasons) whether The Far Country
        was "the first" book allegedly dictated by
        Rebazar Tarzs. This is what the timeline
        appears to show.

        BTW, thanks for posting those T.S.
        posts.

        Etznab
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