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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp: Aryans Are From JUPITER!

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Prometheus, I ve often wondered about Gail & Patti - ever since I started researching & posting as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was it 2005-2007? I think
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 10, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Prometheus,

      I've often wondered about Gail & Patti -
      ever since I started researching & posting
      as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was
      it 2005-2007? I think it was some time
      around there.

      It's a big question mark, to me, about
      whatever happened to Gail's involvement
      with Eckankar. Why the apparent silence
      for so many years? However, I don't think
      Patti has been so silent. I don't think it a
      mystery anymore, either, whether or not
      she is a member of Eckankar. At least, I
      believe it was alluded to by Doug M. that
      she was not any longer active. Instead of
      going into the details about this, my recoll-
      ection is that Doug wanted to let Patti tell
      the story in her own time, in her own way.

      About how many books Paul Twitchell
      finished before 1966, I think I see your
      point.

      Etznab


      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:06 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp: Aryans Are From
      JUPITER!








      Hello Etznab,

      At one time Twitchell was a high ranking

      member of Scientology. It seems L. Ron

      was his original source of "compiled" info

      on Jupiter. Thus, this now becomes Klemp's

      handed-down source since he tends to use

      other people (usually dead) as inspiration

      for his "EK wisdom."



      As far as Marman goes...
      he speculates...

      a lot... and then calls it the Whole Truth! LOL!



      Plus, according to Twitchell, it was GAIL who

      inspired him to take his piles of "research"

      and do something with it. Wasn't it 1963

      when PT met, GAIL, his coconspirator! I blame

      GAIL for the fraud more than Twitchell! She's

      had all of these years to right a wrong, but she's

      kept silent. The sin of omission! She, too, must

      be a narcissist! GAIL has rationalized her role

      by thinking she'd helped people who were

      desperate to believe in something more than

      what they had with their former orthodox

      religions. Except, Scientology, etc., etc., and

      other cult-like religions can say and do the

      same. Therefore, Gail is more the KAL agent

      than Paul. Yet, she and Patti seem to be Marman's

      new buds. Gail should do the right thing and

      jerk the rug out from under Klemp. Gail could

      even come on this site (ESA) Anonymously and

      post some tidbits about Twit, Gross, Klemp, or

      Ginn, or Skelsky, etc. She really does need to

      clear her conscience and protect those Souls

      whom she helped to delude.



      BTW, on another note, didn't Marman say

      that Kirpal didn't return the Tiger's Fang

      manuscript to Twit until around June, 1966.

      Thus, the only book PT had completely compiled/

      written, and printed, prior to 1965 was, maybe,

      a book of poetry?
      0D


      Prometheus



      Etznab wrote:

      About life on Jupiter, I wondered where Paul

      Twitchell got that idea? Was it from an actual

      experience? or something he heard / read?



      For some reason I thought about Scientology.

      I then searched for keywords Scientology &

      from Jupiter.



      ESKIMOS ON JUPITER



      L. Ron Hubbard described Scientology as the science

      of "knowing how to know". The idea is that "auditing"

      can raise your abilities to the point where you "know"

      something directly rather than having to discover it

      or learn it. He spoke authoritatively about life in the

      solar system. He claimed that Jupiter was inhabited

      by people who looked like Eskimos. You can hear him

      say it at:



      http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Jupiter.ram



      http://www.skeptictank.org/cossumfl.htm



      Coincidence?



      I'd bet that Paul Twitchell was not the only person, and

      certainly not the first, to write of life on other planets. I

      believe Twitchell and Hubbard were both science fiction

      writers for a time.



      Etznab



      Prometheus,

      You illustrated:



      I don't see how Klemp "got it" that the



      5th ARYAN ROOT RACE came before the



      1st POLARIAN ROOT RACE and, especially,



      that man was "placed here by colonists



      from JUPITER." This is another dirty little




      secret that EK VAHANAS can't speak of!



      Another dirty little secret is that ECKists



      are expected to "serve."



      That was a good point, I thought. Because



      legends, myths, fables and folktales are part



      of organized religious dogma, IMO. And if not



      in the beginning, they seep in over time when



      people speculate about what they read, and /



      or what they were told. Fiction and pseudo



      (man-made) religion / history are a part of the



      organized religion legacy, too (IMO). However



      when the latter gets taken literally, as if true &



      actually happened I believe people have every



      right to challenge such allegations.



      Here are some examples. The early manu-



      scripts of Dialogues With The Master and The



      Tiger's Fang were written around mid to later



      1950's (reportedly). Today the Eckankar books



      by those names feature Rebazar Tarzs.



      These are examples about truth vs. fiction -



      not because I absolutely know all the details -



      but because the subject is "suspicious" and



      /or requires additional scrutiny, IMO.



      Paul Twitchell had associations with Kirpal



      Singh round about the mid 50s when the two



      manuscripts were reportedly written.

      0A

      In 1963, I believe, Paul Twitchell took his



      "wife to be" to get initiated by Kirpal Singh.



      In one of your past posts (I don't have the #



      or date) you wrote:



      "Kirpal Singh initiated Paul Twitchell in 1955 on



      his first visit to the United States. Kirpal came



      back to the U.S. on two other visits. The second



      was in 1963-64 and the third was in 1972."



      I think that information was mentioned in Ford



      Johnson's book, too.



      Consider what Doug Marman gave back around



      the year 2000:



      ".... Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957, but



      did nothing with the book until he offered it to



      Kirpal Singh in 1963. Paul wrote Dialogues



      With The Master around 1956, from the refer-



      ences I have seen, but didn't publish it until 1970.



      Paul also wrote The Flute of God in 1959, but



      didn't put it into print until 1966, in the Orion



      Magazine series. This pattern is similar to Paul's



      writing of The Far Country in 1963, which wasn't



      published until 1970."



      [Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6]



      http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Six.htm



      I find the Rebazar Tarzs history controversial be-



      cause Paul includes him in the two book
      s. One of



      them written one year after being initiated by Kirpal



      Singh.



      Also, the Tiger's Fang manuscript sent to Kirpal



      Singh in 1963 and the number of paragraphs in



      Eckankar books mirroring what Julian Johnson



      wrote in 1939. In some places apparently "spoken"



      by Rebazar Tarzs to Paul Twitchell.



      Although I don't absolutely know all the details,



      since I have not necessarily seen the early manu-



      scripts (before revisions and additions of Eckankar



      terms), I did take note of the fact that Kirpal Singh



      reportedly DID RETURN the Tiger's Fang manuscript.



      And it might possibly have been in the possession



      of Eckankar for a number of years.



      According to Kirpal Singh?



      "Later he sent me another letter, 'Return my book,



      The Tiger's Fang.' I returned his book. That was dict-



      ated by me on the inner planes, and that's all right.



      He changed that book before printing; where he men-



      tioned my name, he changed it to another guru's name."



      http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch._Two.htm



      My point is not necessarily whether Kirpal Singh



      dictated and / or should have any credit for the book.



      MY POINT IS THAT HE APPARENTLY RETURNED



      THE TIGER'S FAN
      G MANUSCRIPT - AND YEARS



      BEFORE ECKANKAR PUBLISHED THE BOOK BY



      THAT NAME!



      Was the name Rebazar Tarzs featured in the early



      manuscript? Eckankar should know that answer,



      if it has the manuscript in its possession.



      There has been controversy over when the name of



      Rebazar Tarzs first appeared in print. The popular date



      I saw was 1964. However, if one were to search for an



      illustrated Rebazar Tarzs history prior to that, where is



      the evidence for it? Is it in that early The Tiger's Fang



      manuscript? Pre-1963? Was the name Rebazar Tarzs



      given in the first Letter to Gail in December 1962? Was



      it in the original Dialogues With The Master manuscript?



      If these documents are in the possession of Eckankar



      it could settle a lot of controversy (IMO) about who



      came to Paul Twitchell? and exactly when?



      *************************************************************



      Those were examples because I have mostly seen



      the later revised versions of Eckankar books and don't



      have access to (haven't seen) all the earlier history.



      If it ever turns out true, beyond a reasonable doubt,



      that Kirpal Singh once appeared where Rebazar Tarzs



      does now - in Paul Twitchell's writings - then I wo
      uld



      have a case for saying that something "seeped in" to



      the written works of Paul Twitchell over time.



      I've seen multiple apparent timelines for Rebazar T.



      One that has him appearing after Paul met Gail. And



      in 1963 when Paul started writing The Far Country.



      Why are there so many paragraphs by Rebazar T.



      (in The Far Country) similar to what appears in The



      Path of the Masters, by Julian Johnson? The ones in



      Johnson's book are closer to what Kirpal Singh may



      have endorsed, and Gail was reportedly initiated into



      that path in 1963. So ...?



      Of course, for verifiable evidence, one would have to



      have the early Dialogues With The Master, The Tiger's



      Fang and original Letters to Gail to confirm what is the



      name that appears. Kirpal Singh or Rebazar Tarzs, etc.



      I have asked about all of those, at E.S.C. and A.R.E.



      Before that, I may have inquired at the original The Truth-



      Seeker Bulletin Board. I asked current and former Eck-



      ists. Even long-time members from the early days.



      Good questions Prometheus. I think you have a right



      to have the truth.



      I would call this a certain form of being a vahana.



      Etznab








      0D
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Etznab, I figured Patti had left EKankar since she resigned as Secretary to the ECKankar Board the day after Klemp & his new Board went after Darwin. Joan
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 12, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Etznab,
        I figured Patti had left EKankar since
        she resigned as Secretary to the ECKankar
        Board the day after Klemp & his new Board
        went after Darwin. Joan was voted to take
        Patti's position as Secretary, immediately,
        the same day as the resignation. Apparently
        Joan took lessons from Harry on how to stand
        in the wings, and await, until opportunity
        comes a knocking.

        Prometheus


        Prometheus,

        I've often wondered about Gail & Patti -
        ever since I started researching & posting
        as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was
        it 2005-2007? I think it was some time
        around there.

        It's a big question mark, to me, about
        whatever happened to Gail's involvement
        with Eckankar. Why the apparent silence
        for so many years? However, I don't think
        Patti has been so silent. I don't think it a
        mystery anymore, either, whether or not
        she is a member of Eckankar. At least, I
        believe it was alluded to by Doug M. that
        she was not any longer active. Instead of
        going into the details about this, my recoll-
        ection is that Doug wanted to let Patti tell
        the story in her own time, in her own way.

        About how many books Paul Twitchell
        finished before 1966, I think I see your
        point.

        Etznab


        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Etznab,

        At one time Twitchell was a high ranking

        member of Scientology. It seems L. Ron

        was his original source of "compiled" info

        on Jupiter. Thus, this now becomes Klemp's

        handed-down source since he tends to use

        other people (usually dead) as inspiration

        for his "EK wisdom."


        As far as Marman goes... he speculates...

        a lot... and then calls it the Whole Truth! LOL!



        Plus, according to Twitchell, it was GAIL who

        inspired him to take his piles of "research"

        and do something with it. Wasn't it 1963

        when PT met, GAIL, his coconspirator! I blame

        GAIL for the fraud more than Twitchell! She's

        had all of these years to right a wrong, but she's

        kept silent. The sin of omission! She, too, must

        be a narcissist! GAIL has rationalized her role

        by thinking she'd helped people who were

        desperate to believe in something more than

        what they had with their former orthodox

        religions. Except, Scientology, etc., etc., and

        other cult-like religions can say and do the

        same. Therefore, Gail is more the KAL agent

        than Paul. Yet, she and Patti seem to be Marman's

        new buds. Gail should do the right thing and

        jerk the rug out from under Klemp. Gail could

        even come on this site (ESA) Anonymously and

        post some tidbits about Twit, Gross, Klemp, or

        Ginn, or Skelsky, etc. She really does need to

        clear her conscience and protect those Souls

        whom she helped to delude.



        BTW, on another note, didn't Marman say

        that Kirpal didn't return the Tiger's Fang

        manuscript to Twit until around June, 1966.

        Thus, the only book PT had completely compiled/

        written, and printed, prior to 1965 was, maybe,

        a book of poetry?



        Prometheus



        Etznab wrote:

        About life on Jupiter, I wondered where Paul

        Twitchell got that idea? Was it from an actual

        experience? or something he heard / read?



        For some reason I thought about Scientology.

        I then searched for keywords Scientology &

        from Jupiter.



        ESKIMOS ON JUPITER



        L. Ron Hubbard described Scientology as the science

        of "knowing how to know". The idea is that "auditing"

        can raise your abilities to the point where you "know"

        something directly rather than having to discover it

        or learn it. He spoke authoritatively about life in the

        solar system. He claimed that Jupiter was inhabited

        by people who looked like Eskimos. You can hear him

        say it at:



        http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Jupiter.ram



        http://www.skeptictank.org/cossumfl.htm



        Coincidence?



        I'd bet that Paul Twitchell was not the only person, and

        certainly not the first, to write of life on other planets. I

        believe Twitchell and Hubbard were both science fiction

        writers for a time.



        Etznab
      • etznab@aol.com
        Prometheus, I wasn t aware that Patti S. resigned. Instead, I had the impression she was removed. Here is why: Another interesting development in the August 7
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 13, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Prometheus,

          I wasn't aware that Patti S. resigned. Instead, I
          had the impression she was removed. Here is why:

          "Another interesting development in the August
          7 meeting was the appointment, by resolution,
          of Patricia Simpson Rivinus [married in 1983],
          Paul Twitchell's secretary, as the new secretary
          of Eckankar. Only one day later, she was, by
          resolution, summarily removed from this position
          and told that

          ... her services as an officer are hereby terminated,
          both such removal and termination being effective imm-
          ediately. [....]

          "Joan Cross (later Harold's wife) was

          ... appointed as Secretary of Eckankar, effective
          immediately, to serve the unexpired portion of the
          current term of Secretary."

          [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker,
          A Journey to Higher Consciousness, p. 233-234] 

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, Jun 12, 2009 11:56 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp: Aryans Are From
          JUPITER!








          Hi Etznab,

          I figured Patti had left EKankar since

          she resigned as Secretary to the ECKankar

          Board the day after Klemp & his new Board

          went after Darwin. Joan was voted to take

          Patti's position as Secretary, immediately,

          the same day as the resignation. Apparently

          Joan took lessons from Harry on how to stand

          in the win
          gs, and await, until opportunity

          comes a knocking.



          Prometheus



          Prometheus,



          I've often wondered about Gail & Patti -

          ever since I started researching & posting

          as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was

          it 2005-2007? I think it was some time

          around there.



          It's a big question mark, to me, about

          whatever happened to Gail's involvement

          with Eckankar. Why the apparent silence

          for so many years? However, I don't think

          Patti has been so silent. I don't think it a

          mystery anymore, either, whether or not

          she is a member of Eckankar. At least, I

          believe it was alluded to by Doug M. that

          she was not any longer active. Instead of

          going into the details about this, my recoll-

          ection is that Doug wanted to let Patti tell

          the story in her own time, in her own way.



          About how many books Paul Twitchell

          finished before 1966, I think I see your

          point.



          Etznab



          prometheus wrote:



          Hello Etznab,



          At one time Twitchell was a high ranking



          member of Scientology. It seems L. Ron



          was his original source of "compiled" info



          on Jupiter. Thus, this now becomes Klemp's



          handed-down source since he tends to use



          other people (usually dead) as inspiration



          for his "EK wisdom."

          0D

          As far as Marman goes... he speculates...



          a lot... and then calls it the Whole Truth! LOL!



          Plus, according to Twitchell, it was GAIL who



          inspired him to take his piles of "research"



          and do something with it. Wasn't it 1963



          when PT met, GAIL, his coconspirator! I blame



          GAIL for the fraud more than Twitchell! She's



          had all of these years to right a wrong, but she's



          kept silent. The sin of omission! She, too, must



          be a narcissist! GAIL has rationalized her role



          by thinking she'd helped people who were



          desperate to believe in something more than



          what they had with their former orthodox



          religions. Except, Scientology, etc., etc., and



          other cult-like religions can say and do the



          same. Therefore, Gail is more the KAL agent



          than Paul. Yet, she and Patti seem to be Marman's



          new buds. Gail should do the right thing and



          jerk the rug out from under Klemp. Gail could



          even come on this site (ESA) Anonymously and



          post some tidbits about Twit, Gross, Klemp, or



          Ginn, or Skelsky, etc. She really does need to



          clear her conscience and protect those Souls



          whom she helped to delude.



          BTW, on another note, didn't Marman say


          =0
          A
          that Kirpal didn't return the Tiger's Fang



          manuscript to Twit until around June, 1966.



          Thus, the only book PT had completely compiled/



          written, and printed, prior to 1965 was, maybe,



          a book of poetry?



          Prometheus



          Etznab wrote:



          About life on Jupiter, I wondered where Paul



          Twitchell got that idea? Was it from an actual



          experience? or something he heard / read?



          For some reason I thought about Scientology.



          I then searched for keywords Scientology &



          from Jupiter.



          ESKIMOS ON JUPITER



          L. Ron Hubbard described Scientology as the science



          of "knowing how to know". The idea is that "auditing"



          can raise your abilities to the point where you "know"



          something directly rather than having to discover it



          or learn it. He spoke authoritatively about life in the



          solar system. He claimed that Jupiter was inhabited



          by people who looked like Eskimos. You can hear him



          say it at:



          http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Jupiter.ram



          http://www.skeptictank.org/cossumfl.htm



          Coincidence?



          I'd bet that Paul Twitchell was not the only person, and



          certainly not the first, to write of life on other planets. I



          believe Twitchell and Hubbard were
          both science fiction



          writers for a time.



          Etznab
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Etznab, If I could access the Truth-Seeker site I would show the minutes from the meeting where officers and trustees were appointed along with a long
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 13, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Etznab,
            If I could access the Truth-Seeker
            site I would show the minutes from
            the meeting where officers and trustees
            were appointed along with a long discussion
            of what to do about Darwin. Patti was
            appointed as Secretary during this very
            long meeting that went until 10:00 p.m.
            A recess was taken and the meeting was
            to resume the very next day.

            However, Patti resigned the next day after
            having the night to think or dream about
            what was being done to Darwin by Klemp
            and his new crew (EK Board). Apparently Joan
            documented the details differently, after
            Patti left, by showing that Patti was "removed"
            when, in fact, she resigned. Thus, HK's cover-
            up began early on. A "resolution" was simply
            done to officially accept Patti's resignation.
            Another motion and "vote" was made into
            a resolution to appoint joan to fill the empty
            position. Anyway, why don't you ask Marman
            to ask Patti how it went down, according to
            her, and get it straight from the horse's mouth!

            Prometheus
            p.s. Tell Marman to have Patti email you rather
            than take his word for what she has to say.


            etznab wrote:

            Prometheus,

            I wasn't aware that Patti S. resigned. Instead, I
            had the impression she was removed. Here is why:

            "Another interesting development in the August
            7 meeting was the appointment, by resolution,
            of Patricia Simpson Rivinus [married in 1983],
            Paul Twitchell's secretary, as the new secretary
            of Eckankar. Only one day later, she was, by
            resolution, summarily removed from this position
            and told that

            ... her services as an officer are hereby terminated,
            both such removal and termination being effective imm-
            ediately. [....]

            "Joan Cross (later Harold's wife) was

            ... appointed as Secretary of Eckankar, effective
            immediately, to serve the unexpired portion of the
            current term of Secretary."

            [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker,
            A Journey to Higher Consciousness, p. 233-234]Â

            Etznab

            Prometheus wrote:


            Hi Etznab,

            I figured Patti had left EKankar since

            she resigned as Secretary to the ECKankar

            Board the day after Klemp & his new Board

            went after Darwin. Joan was voted to take

            Patti's position as Secretary, immediately,

            the same day as the resignation. Apparently

            Joan took lessons from Harry on how to stand

            in the wings, and await, until opportunity

            comes a knocking.



            Prometheus



            Prometheus,



            I've often wondered about Gail & Patti -

            ever since I started researching & posting

            as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was

            it 2005-2007? I think it was some time

            around there.



            It's a big question mark, to me, about

            whatever happened to Gail's involvement

            with Eckankar. Why the apparent silence

            for so many years? However, I don't think

            Patti has been so silent. I don't think it a

            mystery anymore, either, whether or not

            she is a member of Eckankar. At least, I

            believe it was alluded to by Doug M. that

            she was not any longer active. Instead of

            going into the details about this, my recoll-

            ection is that Doug wanted to let Patti tell

            the story in her own time, in her own way.



            About how many books Paul Twitchell

            finished before 1966, I think I see your

            point.



            Etznab



            prometheus wrote:



            Hello Etznab,



            At one time Twitchell was a high ranking



            member of Scientology. It seems L. Ron



            was his original source of "compiled" info



            on Jupiter. Thus, this now becomes Klemp's



            handed-down source since he tends to use



            other people (usually dead) as inspiration



            for his "EK wisdom."



            As far as Marman goes... he speculates...



            a lot... and then calls it the Whole Truth! LOL!



            Plus, according to Twitchell, it was GAIL who



            inspired him to take his piles of "research"



            and do something with it. Wasn't it 1963



            when PT met, GAIL, his coconspirator! I blame



            GAIL for the fraud more than Twitchell! She's



            had all of these years to right a wrong, but she's



            kept silent. The sin of omission! She, too, must



            be a narcissist! GAIL has rationalized her role



            by thinking she'd helped people who were



            desperate to believe in something more than



            what they had with their former orthodox



            religions. Except, Scientology, etc., etc., and



            other cult-like religions can say and do the



            same. Therefore, Gail is more the KAL agent



            than Paul. Yet, she and Patti seem to be Marman's



            new buds. Gail should do the right thing and



            jerk the rug out from under Klemp. Gail could



            even come on this site (ESA) Anonymously and



            post some tidbits about Twit, Gross, Klemp, or



            Ginn, or Skelsky, etc. She really does need to



            clear her conscience and protect those Souls



            whom she helped to delude.



            BTW, on another note, didn't Marman say


            =0
            A
            that Kirpal didn't return the Tiger's Fang



            manuscript to Twit until around June, 1966.



            Thus, the only book PT had completely compiled/



            written, and printed, prior to 1965 was, maybe,



            a book of poetry?



            Prometheus
          • etznab@aol.com
            Prometheus, Thanks for sharing that. I only knew about this what I had read. Etznab ... From: prometheus_973 To:
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 16, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Prometheus,

              Thanks for sharing that. I only knew about this
              what I had read.

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 1:17 am
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Patti Resigned and Was Not
              Removed!








              Hi Etznab,

              If I could access the Truth-Seeker

              site I would show the minutes from

              the meeting where officers and trustees

              were appointed along with a long discussion

              of what to do about Darwin. Patti was

              appointed as Secretary during this very

              long meeting that went until 10:00 p.m.

              A recess was taken and the meeting was

              to resume the very next day.



              However, Patti resigned the next day after

              having the night to think or dream about

              what was being done to Darwin by Klemp

              and his new crew (EK Board). Apparently Joan

              documented the details differently, after

              Patti left, by showing that Patti was "removed"

              when, in fact, she resigned. Thus, HK's cover-

              up began early on. A "resolution" was simply

              done to officially accept Patti's resignation.

              Another motion and "vote" was made into

              a resolution to appoint joan to fill the empty

              position. Anyway, why don't you ask Marman

              to ask Patti how it went down, according to

              her, and get it straight from the horse's mouth!



              =0
              APrometheus

              p.s. Tell Marman to have Patti email you rather

              than take his word for what she has to say.



              etznab wrote:



              Prometheus,



              I wasn't aware that Patti S. resigned. Instead, I

              had the impression she was removed. Here is why:



              "Another interesting development in the August

              7 meeting was the appointment, by resolution,

              of Patricia Simpson Rivinus [married in 1983],

              Paul Twitchell's secretary, as the new secretary

              of Eckankar. Only one day later, she was, by

              resolution, summarily removed from this position

              and told that



              ... her services as an officer are hereby terminated,

              both such removal and termination being effective imm-

              ediately. [....]



              "Joan Cross (later Harold's wife) was



              ... appointed as Secretary of Eckankar, effective

              immediately, to serve the unexpired portion of the

              current term of Secretary."



              [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker,

              A Journey to Higher Consciousness, p. 233-234]Â



              Etznab



              Prometheus wrote:



              Hi Etznab,



              I figured Patti had left EKankar since



              she resigned as Secretary to the ECKankar



              Board the day after Klemp & his new Board



              went after Darwin. Joan was voted to take



              Patti's position as Secretary, immediately,



              the same day as th
              e resignation. Apparently



              Joan took lessons from Harry on how to stand



              in the wings, and await, until opportunity



              comes a knocking.



              Prometheus



              Prometheus,



              I've often wondered about Gail & Patti -



              ever since I started researching & posting



              as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was



              it 2005-2007? I think it was some time



              around there.



              It's a big question mark, to me, about



              whatever happened to Gail's involvement



              with Eckankar. Why the apparent silence



              for so many years? However, I don't think



              Patti has been so silent. I don't think it a



              mystery anymore, either, whether or not



              she is a member of Eckankar. At least, I



              believe it was alluded to by Doug M. that



              she was not any longer active. Instead of



              going into the details about this, my recoll-



              ection is that Doug wanted to let Patti tell



              the story in her own time, in her own way.



              About how many books Paul Twitchell



              finished before 1966, I think I see your



              point.



              Etznab



              prometheus wrote:



              Hello Etznab,



              At one time Twitchell was a high ranking



              member of Scientology. It seems L. Ron
              0A


              was his original source of "compiled" info



              on Jupiter. Thus, this now becomes Klemp's



              handed-down source since he tends to use



              other people (usually dead) as inspiration



              for his "EK wisdom."



              As far as Marman goes... he speculates...



              a lot... and then calls it the Whole Truth! LOL!



              Plus, according to Twitchell, it was GAIL who



              inspired him to take his piles of "research"



              and do something with it. Wasn't it 1963



              when PT met, GAIL, his coconspirator! I blame



              GAIL for the fraud more than Twitchell! She's



              had all of these years to right a wrong, but she's



              kept silent. The sin of omission! She, too, must



              be a narcissist! GAIL has rationalized her role



              by thinking she'd helped people who were



              desperate to believe in something more than



              what they had with their former orthodox



              religions. Except, Scientology, etc., etc., and



              other cult-like religions can say and do the



              same. Therefore, Gail is more the KAL agent



              than Paul. Yet, she and Patti seem to be Marman's



              new buds. Gail should do the right thing and



              jerk the rug out from under Klemp. Gail could



              even come on this site (ESA) Anonymously and



              post so
              me tidbits about Twit, Gross, Klemp, or



              Ginn, or Skelsky, etc. She really does need to



              clear her conscience and protect those Souls



              whom she helped to delude.



              BTW, on another note, didn't Marman say



              =0

              A

              that Kirpal didn't return the Tiger's Fang



              manuscript to Twit until around June, 1966.



              Thus, the only book PT had completely compiled/



              written, and printed, prior to 1965 was, maybe,



              a book of poetry?



              Prometheus
            • etznab@aol.com
              Something else for this thread. From The Truth-Seeker site. It doesn t have to do with the August 7th, 1983 meeting. Not unless that was the time when Patti
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 27, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Something else for this thread. From The
                Truth-Seeker site.

                It doesn't have to do with the August 7th,
                1983 meeting. Not unless that was the
                time when Patti became not active. My
                guess was it refers to some time later.

                [....]

                A question for Doug. Is Patti Simpson still
                an Eckist? I send all who read this my love

                Freeman

                http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=268&page=168#m264

                I believe this is a record TO FREEMAN of
                Doug's response:

                "[....] I know that Patti does still feel very
                fond feelings toward Paul, but she is also
                not active in Eckankar. Past that, I would
                rather she answer the rest for herself. [....]"

                http://thetruth-seeker.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=310

                I'm not sure of the date when Doug gave
                a response, but I assume it was February
                2004. The 16th?

                Freeman's question is dated February 9th.

                http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=268&page=168#m264

                Doug Marman doesn't appear to respond
                until days later, but I think the link where he
                did respond is currently not working.

                http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=315&page=164

                Although Doug posted on the 22nd, my
                guess is that he responed to Freeman on
                the 16th. That was the date on the Vanilla
                Forum link.

                There are a number of links (more than a few)
                on the new TruthSeeker site that don't work at
                the present time.

                At any rate, according to D
                oug (apparently)
                Patti was "not active in Eckankar" in 2004 -
                at least.

                I don't know when Patti became not active,
                or why. Neither do I know whether she was
                terminated or resigned from her position of
                Eckankar Secretary in 1983. In Ford's book
                it read, to me, like she was terminated from
                that position and replaced by Joan, Harold's
                future wife.

                Etznab





                -----Original Message-----
                From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 1:17 am
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Patti Resigned and Was Not
                Removed!








                Hi Etznab,

                If I could access the Truth-Seeker

                site I would show the minutes from

                the meeting where officers and trustees

                were appointed along with a long discussion

                of what to do about Darwin. Patti was

                appointed as Secretary during this very

                long meeting that went until 10:00 p.m.

                A recess was taken and the meeting was

                to resume the very next day.



                However, Patti resigned the next day after

                having the night to think or dream about

                what was being done to Darwin by Klemp

                and his new crew (EK Board). Apparently Joan

                documented the details differently, after

                Patti left, by showing that Patti was "removed"

                when, in fact, she resigned. Thus, HK's cover-

                up began early on. A "resolution" was simply

                done to officiall
                y accept Patti's resignation.

                Another motion and "vote" was made into

                a resolution to appoint joan to fill the empty

                position. Anyway, why don't you ask Marman

                to ask Patti how it went down, according to

                her, and get it straight from the horse's mouth!



                Prometheus

                p.s. Tell Marman to have Patti email you rather

                than take his word for what she has to say.



                etznab wrote:



                Prometheus,



                I wasn't aware that Patti S. resigned. Instead, I

                had the impression she was removed. Here is why:



                "Another interesting development in the August

                7 meeting was the appointment, by resolution,

                of Patricia Simpson Rivinus [married in 1983],

                Paul Twitchell's secretary, as the new secretary

                of Eckankar. Only one day later, she was, by

                resolution, summarily removed from this position

                and told that



                ... her services as an officer are hereby terminated,

                both such removal and termination being effective imm-

                ediately. [....]



                "Joan Cross (later Harold's wife) was



                ... appointed as Secretary of Eckankar, effective

                immediately, to serve the unexpired portion of the

                current term of Secretary."



                [See: Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker,

                A Journey to Higher Consciousness, p. 233-234]Â



                Etznab



                Prometheus wrote:



                Hi Etznab,



                I
                figured Patti had left EKankar since



                she resigned as Secretary to the ECKankar



                Board the day after Klemp & his new Board



                went after Darwin. Joan was voted to take



                Patti's position as Secretary, immediately,



                the same day as the resignation. Apparently



                Joan took lessons from Harry on how to stand



                in the wings, and await, until opportunity



                comes a knocking.



                Prometheus



                Prometheus,



                I've often wondered about Gail & Patti -



                ever since I started researching & posting



                as far back as The TruthSeeker B.B. Was



                it 2005-2007? I think it was some time



                around there.



                It's a big question mark, to me, about



                whatever happened to Gail's involvement



                with Eckankar. Why the apparent silence



                for so many years? However, I don't think



                Patti has been so silent. I don't think it a



                mystery anymore, either, whether or not



                she is a member of Eckankar. At least, I



                believe it was alluded to by Doug M. that



                she was not any longer active. Instead of



                going into the details about this, my recoll-



                ection is that Doug wanted to let Patti tell



                the story in her own time, in her own way.



                About how=2
                0many books Paul Twitchell



                finished before 1966, I think I see your



                point.



                Etznab



                prometheus wrote:



                Hello Etznab,



                At one time Twitchell was a high ranking



                member of Scientology. It seems L. Ron



                was his original source of "compiled" info



                on Jupiter. Thus, this now becomes Klemp's



                handed-down source since he tends to use



                other people (usually dead) as inspiration



                for his "EK wisdom."



                As far as Marman goes... he speculates...



                a lot... and then calls it the Whole Truth! LOL!



                Plus, according to Twitchell, it was GAIL who



                inspired him to take his piles of "research"



                and do something with it. Wasn't it 1963



                when PT met, GAIL, his coconspirator! I blame



                GAIL for the fraud more than Twitchell! She's



                had all of these years to right a wrong, but she's



                kept silent. The sin of omission! She, too, must



                be a narcissist! GAIL has rationalized her role



                by thinking she'd helped people who were



                desperate to believe in something more than



                what they had with their former orthodox



                religions. Except, Scientology, etc., etc., and



                other cult-like religions can say and do the



                same. Therefore, Gai
                l is more the KAL agent



                than Paul. Yet, she and Patti seem to be Marman's



                new buds. Gail should do the right thing and



                jerk the rug out from under Klemp. Gail could



                even come on this site (ESA) Anonymously and



                post some tidbits about Twit, Gross, Klemp, or



                Ginn, or Skelsky, etc. She really does need to



                clear her conscience and protect those Souls



                whom she helped to delude.



                BTW, on another note, didn't Marman say



                =0

                A

                that Kirpal didn't return the Tiger's Fang



                manuscript to Twit until around June, 1966.



                Thus, the only book PT had completely compiled/



                written, and printed, prior to 1965 was, maybe,



                a book of poetry?



                Prometheus
              • prometheus_973
                Thanks for the info Etznab. I kind of figured that Patti wasn t active in ECKankar since she was talking so highly about Ram Dass recently. And, since she
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 2, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks for the info Etznab. I kind of
                  figured that Patti wasn't active in ECKankar
                  since she was talking so highly about Ram
                  Dass recently. And, since she hasn't kept
                  her EK Membership current, this means
                  that her consciousness is now around
                  that of a current 2nd Initiate! Wow! From
                  8th to 2nd just because of a few bucks
                  ($$$)! Actually, would a real spiritual
                  "path" charge money to maintain one's
                  (Soul's) inner plane level of consciousness?
                  Well, yes! Because all of this (religions, etc.)
                  is of the physical and Not the spiritual.
                  That's why they sell books and other
                  materials and require "requested" donations!
                  The only "free lunch" (freedom) comes
                  when Soul eliminates the middleman!

                  Prometheus


                  Etznab wrote:
                  Something else for this thread. From The
                  Truth-Seeker site.

                  It doesn't have to do with the August 7th,
                  1983 meeting. Not unless that was the
                  time when Patti became not active. My
                  guess was it refers to some time later.

                  [....]

                  A question for Doug. Is Patti Simpson still
                  an Eckist? I send all who read this my love

                  Freeman

                  http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=268&page=168#m264

                  I believe this is a record TO FREEMAN of
                  Doug's response:

                  "[....] I know that Patti does still feel very
                  fond feelings toward Paul, but she is also
                  not active in Eckankar. Past that, I would
                  rather she answer the rest for herself. [....]"

                  http://thetruth-seeker.com/vanillaforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=310

                  I'm not sure of the date when Doug gave
                  a response, but I assume it was February
                  2004. The 16th?

                  Freeman's question is dated February 9th.

                  http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=268&page=168#m264

                  Doug Marman doesn't appear to respond
                  until days later, but I think the link where he
                  did respond is currently not working.

                  http://www.thetruth-seeker.com/dispBB.aspx?st=315&page=164

                  Although Doug posted on the 22nd, my
                  guess is that he responed to Freeman on
                  the 16th. That was the date on the Vanilla
                  Forum link.

                  There are a number of links (more than a few)
                  on the new TruthSeeker site that don't work at
                  the present time.

                  At any rate, according to Doug (apparently)
                  Patti was "not active in Eckankar" in 2004 -
                  at least.

                  I don't know when Patti became not active,
                  or why. Neither do I know whether she was
                  terminated or resigned from her position of
                  Eckankar Secretary in 1983. In Ford's book
                  it read, to me, like she was terminated from
                  that position and replaced by Joan, Harold's
                  future wife.

                  Etznab



                  Hi Etznab,

                  If I could access the Truth-Seeker

                  site I would show the minutes from

                  the meeting where officers and trustees

                  were appointed along with a long discussion

                  of what to do about Darwin. Patti was

                  appointed as Secretary during this very

                  long meeting that went until 10:00 p.m.

                  A recess was taken and the meeting was

                  to resume the very next day.



                  However, Patti resigned the next day after

                  having the night to think or dream about

                  what was being done to Darwin by Klemp

                  and his new crew (EK Board). Apparently Joan

                  documented the details differently, after

                  Patti left, by showing that Patti was "removed"

                  when, in fact, she resigned. Thus, HK's cover-

                  up began early on. A "resolution" was simply

                  done to officially accept Patti's resignation.

                  Another motion and "vote" was made into

                  a resolution to appoint joan to fill the empty

                  position. Anyway, why don't you ask Marman

                  to ask Patti how it went down, according to

                  her, and get it straight from the horse's mouth!



                  Prometheus

                  p.s. Tell Marman to have Patti email you rather

                  than take his word for what she has to say.
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