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Are Eckists Really Happy?

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  • mishmisha9
    Hello, All! I like all of these discussions, especially enjoy reading the observations and opinions expressed about the eck experiences, the behaviors of
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 4, 2005
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      Hello, All!

      I like all of these discussions, especially enjoy reading the
      observations and opinions expressed about the eck experiences, the
      behaviors of eckists, etc. I have been thinking and asking
      myself, "Are Eckists really happy?" It seems that life is actually
      passing them by--when they spend so much time trying to figure out
      all the spiritual lessons and "their" karma thing as life spins all
      around them. There is so much fear of not getting it right, and too
      much karma certainly can't allow a person to feel right about
      himself--does it? I was in a discussion group one time when a guy
      said he knew that he had been a murderer and rapist in one of his
      past lifes and he knew that was why he was having some very hard
      times in this one. Well, since I was sitting next to him, when he
      announced this revelation, I couldn't get away from him fast enough!
      LOL! But actually how can you develop a good self image if you are
      carrying around all this "past" guilt of things you believe you did
      in another lifetime? How important is it to allow this sort
      of "punishment?"

      Truthdecider, you have shared your terrible childhood experiences in
      your posts. Do you feel that you had created this sort of karma from
      a past life? Do you think it is fair to a child to experience what
      you did? I'm just wondering how you see this now, and not to put you
      on the spot or anything. I can't relate to your experiences, beyond
      having a grandmother who could be very unkind with her words. So,
      maybe you wouldn't mind responding with your insights.

      I don't really look at HuChat much and I am not Frank! : ) I did
      take a glimpse the other day, it seems that one attitude when life
      is going very well for eckists is that "wow, I am so getting it as
      a 'co-worker'and this is my 'reward.'" It is a seemingly arrogant
      and smug attitude--I especially, felt this when I read about one
      person cruising along on a pretty, sunny day with a full tank of
      gasoline and not a care--to be so blessed when obviously so many are
      going through personal hells in those hurricane devastated areas.
      Seemed too smug for me. Some how I don't think she expressed her
      gratitude real well when making such an observation. I wonder how
      many eckists were not protected by the mahanta??? Oh, I remember, if
      they had to "check out" in this, they had learned all the lessons
      they needed to learn in this life? Or if they are homeless and
      stranded, sick and hungry, well it is their karma--right!!
      Apparently their mahanta felt they needed those spiritual lessons--
      what power to be able to stir up such a monster storm in order to
      create this for the chelas! And what about all those who are not
      eckists--just collatorial damage, I suppose, and they'll come back
      and have an opportunity to become Eckists in the next life.

      I also wonder what kind of help eckists are coming up with in order
      to aid those in need. I have a thought on what Harold could do--he
      could donate the money paid by his chelas to attend the up-coming
      WorldWide Seminar to the relief funds--that would be certainly very
      generous and a very tidy sum. It might help Harold to work off some
      of "his karma." : ) I'm sure this proposed generosity could be well
      afforded.

      Mish
    • ctecvie
      Hello Mish, ... I don t think Eckists are happier than other people. I certainly wasn t happier while being an Eckist than I am now, on the contrary! ... It s
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 4, 2005
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        Hello Mish,


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
        > Hello, All!
        >
        > I like all of these discussions, especially enjoy reading the
        > observations and opinions expressed about the eck experiences, the
        > behaviors of eckists, etc. I have been thinking and asking
        > myself, "Are Eckists really happy?"

        I don't think Eckists are happier than other people. I certainly
        wasn't happier while being an Eckist than I am now, on the contrary!

        >It seems that life is actually
        > passing them by--when they spend so much time trying to figure out
        > all the spiritual lessons and "their" karma thing as life spins
        >all
        > around them.

        It's a way of avoiding to participate in real life. It's so much
        easier to be busy figuring out the "karma" and all those past lives
        than to try put into action what was learned. Apparently there is
        not much to put into action because not much was learned! :-)

        >There is so much fear of not getting it right, and too
        > much karma certainly can't allow a person to feel right about
        > himself--does it?

        During my last two years (they seem to have been somehow my "magical
        last two years" as I see it now ;-)) )I worked out what "karma" is
        for me, and I saw it quite differently from the Eckists! A critical
        Eckist once said that a working relationship is "karma" too - one
        party works and the other pays for the work. This expressed very
        well what I was thinking. "Karma" is used in a very negative way in
        Eckankar, and it's nothing else, in my view, than the original sin
        of the Catholic church. And then there is the mahanta as saviour who
        can put this original sin to rest!

        >I was in a discussion group one time when a guy
        > said he knew that he had been a murderer and rapist in one of his
        > past lifes and he knew that was why he was having some very hard
        > times in this one. Well, since I was sitting next to him, when he
        > announced this revelation, I couldn't get away from him fast
        >enough!

        LOL! I can't be sure of course but I think that not necessarily
        everybody has to have been a murderer or a crook in past lives. And
        I think that, if they were, it's not necessarily because of that if
        they are having a hard time in this life. And it's not necessary
        either to stay in those bad circumstances because we think it's
        necessary to complete the "karmic cycle" before we can be free! I
        met more than one Eckist thinking that way! It's terrible to remain
        in that self-made prison.


        > LOL! But actually how can you develop a good self image if you are
        > carrying around all this "past" guilt of things you believe you
        >did
        > in another lifetime? How important is it to allow this sort
        > of "punishment?"

        The task, for me, is to concentrate on this life and make the best
        of it with what we have got. To work with our weaknesses, develop
        our strengths, and grow. To use any tools to this purpose! And, most
        important, to enjoy and live life (which is challenge enough for one
        life I think ...)! What good is it to "know" our past lives? Of
        course, if we have vivid experiences of past lives, it's very
        impressing. But do we really know from where those experiences come,
        is it really one of "our" past lives? And do we need to know all
        this? Some Eckists I know say that only when they know from where
        this experience stems it is healed. I used to respond that if we
        could really know from where it comes, the work would not stop
        there, but begin! I used to think then and think now as well that it
        is not really important to understand it thoroughly - the most
        important thing is to make the next step. It is for a reason that
        something comes up in this life, and thus it belongs into this life
        and not into something long past.


        > Truthdecider, you have shared your terrible childhood experiences
        >in
        > your posts. Do you feel that you had created this sort of karma
        >from
        > a past life? Do you think it is fair to a child to experience what
        > you did? I'm just wondering how you see this now, and not to put
        >you
        > on the spot or anything. I can't relate to your experiences,
        >beyond
        > having a grandmother who could be very unkind with her words. So,
        > maybe you wouldn't mind responding with your insights.

        I had a very unkind grandmother (with words) as well. But apart from
        that, even if I didn't like so much being a child and didn't have a
        very happy childhood, I did not have those terrible experiences some
        of us had.


        > I don't really look at HuChat much and I am not Frank! : )

        I'm not Frank either! :-) Liz, I can see the point you are making in
        your last post, about the dysfunctional group. It certainly is!

        > I did
        > take a glimpse the other day, it seems that one attitude when life
        > is going very well for eckists is that "wow, I am so getting it as
        > a 'co-worker'and this is my 'reward.'" It is a seemingly arrogant
        > and smug attitude--I especially, felt this when I read about one
        > person cruising along on a pretty, sunny day with a full tank of
        > gasoline and not a care--to be so blessed when obviously so many
        >are
        > going through personal hells in those hurricane devastated areas.

        I noticed that post, too. While I think it doesn't help anybody to
        get too depressed about what is going on in this world, I think that
        we should take the opportunity to help where we can and where it
        makes sense. I was very happy during that week-end and I sure am
        enjoying life in spite of all the desasters going on, and I am
        grateful for what I have - but this doesn't mean that I don't know
        what is going on.

        > Seemed too smug for me. Some how I don't think she expressed her
        > gratitude real well when making such an observation.

        Yes, I was wondering, too ... knowing Eckists I know that attitude,
        too. I couldn't really feel the gratitude in that post.

        >I wonder how
        > many eckists were not protected by the mahanta??? Oh, I remember,
        >if
        > they had to "check out" in this, they had learned all the lessons
        > they needed to learn in this life?

        As you know, there is always the "right" explanation - either the
        one or the other! :-)

        > Or if they are homeless and
        > stranded, sick and hungry, well it is their karma--right!!
        > Apparently their mahanta felt they needed those spiritual lessons--
        > what power to be able to stir up such a monster storm in order to
        > create this for the chelas! And what about all those who are not
        > eckists--just collatorial damage, I suppose, and they'll come back
        > and have an opportunity to become Eckists in the next life.

        This is really a cruel attitude, but it's a good protection against
        life as well, against feeling too much. You know that feelings
        are "bad", don't you? :-) Eckankar is a way to avoid feelings -
        somebody on this list, I think it was Freefrom in his excellent
        response to Truthdecider, said something to that end. Just don't
        feel too much, that is dangerous! Keep on giving this divine love
        which is so much more (according to HK) than human love! Well,
        divine love doesn't ask for personal involvement, so it's easy to
        stay away from things that could require commitment.


        > I also wonder what kind of help eckists are coming up with in
        >order
        > to aid those in need.

        I'm sure that some are helping, having perhaps friends who are in
        need, but this would be on a personal level (which is great) but
        certainly not on an official level.

        >I have a thought on what Harold could do--he
        > could donate the money paid by his chelas to attend the up-coming
        > WorldWide Seminar to the relief funds--that would be certainly
        >very
        > generous and a very tidy sum. It might help Harold to work off
        >some
        > of "his karma." : ) I'm sure this proposed generosity could be
        >well
        > afforded.

        You think HK could "buy" happiness for the karma he has already
        accumulated? Well, I don't think any money in the world could
        relieve him from the guilt he has already piled up by misleading
        thousands of chelas. But perhaps penitence would help, penitence
        coming from the heart, and resulting in certain actions (like
        admitting the fraud Eckankar is)?!

        Ingrid
      • ewickings@aol.com
        In a message dated 9/4/2005 12:11:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... said he knew that he had been a murderer and rapist in one of his past lifes and he knew
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 6, 2005
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          In a message dated 9/4/2005 12:11:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mishmisha9@... writes:
          > I was in a discussion group one time when a guy
          said he knew that he had been a murderer and rapist in one of his
          past lifes and he knew that was why he was having some very hard
          times in this one.
          ****  Sucks to be him! 
          > Well, since I was sitting next to him, when he
          announced this revelation, I couldn't get away from him fast enough!
          ****  LOL   and so the drama continues with all these people claiming to have had the most difficult or sick past lives.  Seems more interesting don't you think, than saying gee I was just some poor goat herder with 16 kids to feed.  Makes him look silly actually, cuz why on Earth would the mahanta of the universe pick him to be an eckie when he has done such terrible things to others in a past life?   How did he earn the right to be a chosen one?   
           

          >LOL! But actually how can you develop a good self image if you are
          carrying around all this "past" guilt of things you believe you did
          in another lifetime? How important is it to allow this sort
          of "punishment?"
           
          ****  It makes for an interesting story to someone?  Or how about this guy has carried over some of his illness to this life?

          >Truthdecider, you have shared your terrible childhood experiences in
          your posts. Do you feel that you had created this sort of karma from
          a past life?
           
          ****  I understand this question was directed at Truthdecider, but thought I'd throw in my two cents worth.  I came from an abusive family as well.  Actually just my mother....  Before becoming an eckist (and it continued on in various forms until 2 years ago when I left eckankrap!) was physically abused to the point of nearly being smothered to death too many times to recall, etc.  After becoming an eckist, my mother used the past life thing as her crutch and excuse.  We were supposed to *understand* better why she was having such trouble living life this time around.  I was the oldest of four.  Was the second and only parent that cared for the younger kids.  While mom was out getting wasted, and claiming it was working off karma, Smoking,  and her fake attempts at suicide was an attempt at controlling a life she had no control over.  But hey she got our attention plenty of times.
           
          Did I ever buy into the past life excuse?   Hell no!   I knew she was F***** in the head way before eckankrap gave her a way out of her abusive behavior.  To this day she acts and feels she is superior over all that are not special and chosen by the mythical mahanta.   She is smug and better than even her own children and grandchildren.  We are low life kal vehicles and she has to protect and never question the mahanta.   I hope her 4th husband has a million dollar life policy on her, and is just pretending to be a cult puppy!  
           
           
          >I don't really look at HuChat much and I am not Frank! : )
           
          ****  LOL  well I have my ideas, but didn't think it was you Mish
           
           
          > I did take a glimpse the other day, it seems that one attitude when life
          is going very well for eckists is that "wow, I am so getting it as
          a 'co-worker'and this is my 'reward.'" It is a seemingly arrogant
          and smug attitude--I especially, felt this when I read about one
          person cruising along on a pretty, sunny day with a full tank of
          gasoline and not a care--to be so blessed when obviously so many are
          going through personal hells in those hurricane devastated areas.
           
          ****  And unfortunately this women is a school teacher in the public system in MN!!!!!  Let's hope her attitude or cult brainwashed smug ness doesn't effect her students!  When you hear of eckies going through the same normal life like loosing a son to cancer, or one of their *friends* in eck is now living on the street because harji failed him.....  hey where is the real compassion anyway?  It's all just cheap talk, and eck  luvvvvvv   but no real compassion! 
           
          Anyway, too much eckankrap for one day.....   off to try to enjoy the day.  Holiday over, and back to watching cartoons with the wee one 
        • ewickings@aol.com
          In a message dated 9/4/2005 1:26:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... your last post, about the dysfunctional group. It certainly is! *** LOL I know ! I think
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 6, 2005
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            In a message dated 9/4/2005 1:26:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ctecvie@... writes:

            >I'm not Frank either! :-) Liz, I can see the point you are making in
            your last post, about the dysfunctional group. It certainly is!
            ***  LOL I know !   I think I was just poking fun at the anonymous thing going on....
             
            Hugs,
            Liz 

             
          • mishmisha9
            Hello, Liz! I do enjoy your sense of humor--and glad you enjoy the cartoons with your little one! It s been a long time since I ve watched any, unless you can
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 7, 2005
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              Hello, Liz!

              I do enjoy your sense of humor--and glad you enjoy the cartoons with
              your little one! It's been a long time since I've watched any,
              unless you can count South Park in that category! : ) I can't
              imagine the abuse you suffered at your mother's hands--very cruel
              and frightening experiences for you. I can understand that she has
              been an obviously very sick person for a long time. Thankfully, you
              survived all of this and are a very strong individual as a result of
              being that survivor! I have also read your response to Truthdecider.
              It seems that you recognized your intuitive sense and allowed it to
              be your guide--an important survivor tool!

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, ewickings@a...
              wrote:
              > In a message dated 9/4/2005 12:11:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              > mishmisha9@y... writes:
              >
              > > I was in a discussion group one time when a guy
              > said he knew that he had been a murderer and rapist in one of his
              > past lifes and he knew that was why he was having some very hard
              > times in this one.
              > **** Sucks to be him!
              >
              > > Well, since I was sitting next to him, when he
              > announced this revelation, I couldn't get away from him fast
              enough!
              > **** LOL and so the drama continues with all these people
              claiming to
              > have had the most difficult or sick past lives. Seems more
              interesting don't
              > you think, than saying gee I was just some poor goat herder with
              16 kids to
              > feed. Makes him look silly actually, cuz why on Earth would the
              mahanta of the
              > universe pick him to be an eckie when he has done such terrible
              things to
              > others in a past life? How did he earn the right to be a chosen
              one?
              >
              >
              > >LOL! But actually how can you develop a good self image if you
              are
              > carrying around all this "past" guilt of things you believe you
              did
              > in another lifetime? How important is it to allow this sort
              > of "punishment?"
              >
              > **** It makes for an interesting story to someone? Or how about
              this guy
              > has carried over some of his illness to this life?
              >
              > >Truthdecider, you have shared your terrible childhood
              experiences in
              > your posts. Do you feel that you had created this sort of karma
              from
              > a past life?
              >
              > **** I understand this question was directed at Truthdecider,
              but thought
              > I'd throw in my two cents worth. I came from an abusive family
              as well.
              > Actually just my mother.... Before becoming an eckist (and it
              continued on in
              > various forms until 2 years ago when I left eckankrap!) was
              physically abused
              > to the point of nearly being smothered to death too many times to
              recall, etc.
              > After becoming an eckist, my mother used the past life thing as
              her crutch
              > and excuse. We were supposed to *understand* better why she was
              having such
              > trouble living life this time around. I was the oldest of four.
              Was the
              > second and only parent that cared for the younger kids. While
              mom was out
              > getting wasted, and claiming it was working off karma, Smoking,
              and her fake
              > attempts at suicide was an attempt at controlling a life she had
              no control over.
              > But hey she got our attention plenty of times.
              >
              > Did I ever buy into the past life excuse? Hell no! I knew she
              was F*****
              > in the head way before eckankrap gave her a way out of her
              abusive behavior.
              > To this day she acts and feels she is superior over all that are
              not
              > special and chosen by the mythical mahanta. She is smug and
              better than even her
              > own children and grandchildren. We are low life kal vehicles and
              she has to
              > protect and never question the mahanta. I hope her 4th husband
              has a
              > million dollar life policy on her, and is just pretending to be a
              cult puppy!
              >
              >
              > >I don't really look at HuChat much and I am not Frank! : )
              >
              > **** LOL well I have my ideas, but didn't think it was you Mish
              >
              >
              > > I did take a glimpse the other day, it seems that one attitude
              when life
              > is going very well for eckists is that "wow, I am so getting it
              as
              > a 'co-worker'and this is my 'reward.'" It is a seemingly arrogant
              > and smug attitude--I especially, felt this when I read about one
              > person cruising along on a pretty, sunny day with a full tank of
              > gasoline and not a care--to be so blessed when obviously so many
              are
              > going through personal hells in those hurricane devastated areas.
              >
              > **** And unfortunately this women is a school teacher in the
              public system
              > in MN!!!!! Let's hope her attitude or cult brainwashed smug ness
              doesn't
              > effect her students! When you hear of eckies going through the
              same normal life
              > like loosing a son to cancer, or one of their *friends* in eck is
              now living
              > on the street because harji failed him..... hey where is the
              real
              > compassion anyway? It's all just cheap talk, and eck luvvvvvv
              but no real
              > compassion!
              >
              > Anyway, too much eckankrap for one day..... off to try to enjoy
              the day.
              > Holiday over, and back to watching cartoons with the wee one
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