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"The Mystic World" JUNE 2009 - Front Page Article

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  • prometheus_973
    The Mystic World of ECKankar - June 2009 Klemp s front page article: Like My Brother Duane HK: Duane was my big brother. He was also my North Star, a
    Message 1 of 6 , May 17, 2009
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      The Mystic World of ECKankar - June 2009

      Klemp's front page article:

      "Like My Brother Duane"

      HK: "Duane was my big brother. He was
      also my North Star, a guiding light, with
      no concern whether I would let his light
      help me find my own light, and my own
      way.

      ME: It seems that as Klemp gets older
      (and sees his mortality), he's 67, he
      tends to dwell in the past more often.

      Here, Harry's reminiscing and is making
      an attempt to show that he not only had
      a loving brother who was his first "teacher,"
      but that he, also, loved and appreciated
      his brother.

      I've criticized Harry for being unloving
      and disrespectful of people in his life
      (especially with Darwin), thus, HK's now
      trying to show us that he's not all that
      insensitive after all. Except, it looks like
      HK's trying to turn his dead, and oldest,
      brother into an EK Master (Duta Kazi?),
      or a Saint!

      But, don't most brothers and sisters let
      their siblings find their own way and their
      own light! Parents and teachers attempt
      to pass on what they've learned (their own
      discovery of "light," i.e. their consciousness).
      They show these children how they too can
      fit into society and how to be successful.
      These children will, thus, have the help they
      need and be inspired to find their own`light,'
      but that's the job of parents and teachers!

      HK: "A couple of years older than me,
      he served as my bellwether."

      ME: But wasn't Gross Klemp's "spiritual"
      bellwether for ten years?

      Klemp's choice of words are both archaic
      and Freudian. 'Bellwether' is also defined
      as a lead sheep wearing a bell. Harry is the
      `bellwether' for EKists leading these mindless
      Souls to the holding pens and to the slaughterhouse
      of the KAL. He's a Judas sheep/goat!

      HK: "At age eight, he introduced me, a six-
      year-old, to after-school radio programs,
      which, until then, were only so much noise
      to me. He explained the story lines. He told
      the names of characters and their roles. The
      hero and his friends were on every week,
      their voices clear and determined, and they
      were more than ready, too, to see justice
      served to all villains."

      ME: Why doesn't Klemp mention the names
      of these programs and characters if they made
      such an impression upon him? Hmmmmmm.

      HK: "So why mention Duane? Simply because
      his expressions of creativity fueled mine too."

      ME: Actually, Klemp just copies the behaviour
      and ideas of others. Later, (at 13), Klemp's
      cousin decides to go to a private Lutheran
      school and Harry decides to follow him. Then,
      even later, after Duane becomes a pilot Harry
      decides to take flying lessons. Klemp, however,
      doesn't mention much about himself and his
      interests and hobbies. But, we can see that
      HK's not very original and "creative," (he played
      the game of follow-the-leader). Nor, did HK
      make good choices when left to his own wiles.
      That bridge jump and strip-tease is proof of
      that!

      HK: "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two,
      says of creativity: `The creative self in man
      is that through which the ECK forces work,
      and the destructive self in man is that through
      which Kal forces work.'

      ME: So, `the creative self in man' that gave
      us the ATOMIC BOMB is "the ECK" while
      `the destructive self in man' is the `Kal.'

      Klemp speaks with a forked tongue and
      from both sides of his mouth! He likes to
      have it both ways doesn't he! And, why is
      Klemp, still, quoting from Twitchell's 1971
      Shariyat 2, which is the Astral Plane "ECK/
      KAL Holy Book?"

      HK: "Duane was therefore one of my early
      teachers in showing the power of stories.
      They bring subjects to life. Today, they are
      at the core of the ECK teachings, which the
      ECK, Holy Spirit, see fit to have me pass
      along to you."

      ME: Thus, Duane was to Harry as Kay-Dee
      (Kata-Daki) was to Paul. How clever! And,
      we can see how Twitchell's tall tales and
      plagiarisms are at the `core of the ECK
      teachings' just as Klemp's mindless "stories"
      are today!

      HK: "My brother also taught me to love
      pretty things."

      ME: Isn't the ability to "love" an innate
      trait based upon consciousness? Why
      did Klemp need to be "taught" to love
      and why only "pretty things?"

      HK: "One such instance that comes
      to me is a coloring contest he entered
      around age ten. The two prior years,
      no prize. But he tried again. This was
      a Christmas contest that the newspaper
      featured each year, and with a cash
      prize for the top three winners. Duane
      chose bright colors and stayed within
      the lines.

      So now, we also try to make ECK
      publications attractive."

      ME: What does this last statement
      have to do with a coloring contest
      that Harry's oldest brother entered
      (circa) 60 years ago?

      HK: "Soon after the contest had ended,
      the mailman delivered a letter addressed
      to Duane. It said he had won third place.
      He could come anytime and pick up his
      cash prize.

      The whole family was so very proud
      of him. But, in a way, once it happened,
      I was not that surprised. He never gave
      up. Never. Once he set his mind to
      reaching some goal, he used every
      spark of creativity to reach it."

      ME: "Every spark"... even the negative,
      because the "goal," versus the Journey,
      is everything to Top Dog Klemp!

      I, too, was one of the top winners
      of a coloring contest sponsored by the
      local newspaper. There's really not all
      that much "creativity" involved when
      coloring "within the lines." Klemp seems
      to be grabbing-at-straws and exaggerating
      when he puts so much emphasis on
      "coloring within the lines." Does "within
      the lines" represent the EK Dogma with
      rules, guidelines, requirements and the
      long wait for initiations. Thus, "never give
      up, Never" is the new motto that EKists
      can use to "color" their lives.

      HK: "Walt Disney, American film producer,
      said, `If you can dream it, you can do it.'

      ME: So, Why do ECKists need a physical
      plane religion, a physical plane master,
      and a membership card? Soul can imagine
      It's own reality without the restrictions. IT
      can go directly to the Source without the
      need for a middleman! Does Soul need
      a crutch (religion) when it can "dream?"

      HK: "Henry David Throeau, writer, adds
      a qualifying footnote to that. `If one advances
      confidently in the direction of his dreams,'
      he said, `and endeavors to live the life
      which he has imagined, he will meet with
      a success unexpected in common hours.'

      ME: Actually, it's Klemp that's adding the
      "qualifying footnote" to the Walt Disney
      quote by quoting another well known person
      of the past. Why doesn't Klemp quote the
      ECK Masters? Were Walt Disney and Throeau
      EK Masters? No!

      BTW- Doesn't Klemp have anything
      original (his own) to say? Where's
      Klemp's "creativity?"

      HK: "About the time of the coloring contest,
      Duane got caught up by the model-airplane
      bug. He, at first, bought mainly plastic models,
      but he carefully applied the supplied decals
      onto the wings and body. Soon, however,
      he wanted flying models. Blah, Blah, Blah...
      It took a great deal of creativity and persistence
      to do the entire project...

      Model planes led to his desire to fly the
      real thing. So he began to save money
      for lessons. That was money hard won."

      ME: I've shortened this some of wordiness
      since Klemp's whole point is to praise his
      brother's tenacity for hard work in order
      to accomplish his dream of flying and to
      relate this to his own desires of becoming
      the LEM, and for ECKists not to give up on
      their dreams of becoming ECK Masters too!
      Well, not quite! Klemp simply gives chelas
      the goal of God-Consciousness.

      However, Klemp leaves out his relationship
      with Darwin and how he, Klemp, positioned
      himself at the ESC, and as a "writer," in order
      to get noticed and make rank. Too bad, however,
      that Klemp doesn't, also, mention that he
      (as LEM) encouraged his brother, Duane, to
      go to Mexico for Laetrile treatments when
      Duane was diagnosed with Cancer. Duane
      died, of Cancer, in the mid 1980s.

      http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

      http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile


      HK: "Blah, Blah, Blah... The point is, my
      brother followed his dreams. From him,
      I learned to follow mine.

      So when I later found ECKankar, I `locked
      on' to it, heart and Soul, like a fighter plane's
      radar locks onto a target."

      ME: When "a fighter plane's radar locks
      onto a target" it is to destroy or kill someone!

      Klemp, at the beginning of this article,
      quotes the Shariyat, "The CREATIVE self
      in man is that through which the ECK forces
      work, and the DESTRUCTIVE self in man is
      that through which the KAL forces work."
      Thus, Klemp has, unknowingly, shown
      EKists that he is of the KAL!


      HK: "Let your own goal be God Consciousness.
      Never give up. Never!"

      ME: Well, we learned a lot about Duane,
      before Klemp FINALLY makes his point!
      But, we haven't learned too much about
      old Harold, except, that he tends to trip
      himself up more often since no one (Joan
      included), or those at the ESC are, still,
      not permitted to edit the Mahanta! LOL!

      That's why HK has to keep it simple, tell
      other peoples' stories, and quote famous
      people. It, also, seems that Klemp dreamed
      of being important. That's why it wasn't
      enough for Klemp to be the EK Master and
      the big fish in the small pond of ECKankar.
      And, that's why Klemp paid to be listed in
      the "International Who's Who of Intellectuals,
      ninth edition."

      However, if the goal is "God Consciousness"
      an EKist, or anyone, doesn't need to be in,
      or remain, in ECKankar! They can dream
      their own reality and look to Walt Disney,
      Throeau, or Mark Twain, etc. for their words
      of wisdom instead of Klemp!

      Prometheus

      p.s. I wonder if Klemp ever watched the film
      "Galaxy Quest?" The term, "Never Give Up,
      Never Surrender" is a key quote. Did Klemp
      paraphrase this and "borrow" it too!
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, For the sake of space I left out some of the praise Klemp was giving his late brother Duane. However, now, I d like to comment on it. HK: One
      Message 2 of 6 , May 18, 2009
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        Hello All,
        For the sake of space I left out some
        of the praise Klemp was giving his
        late brother Duane. However, now,
        I'd like to comment on it.

        HK: "One winter, however, at age sixteen,
        he got a lucky break. It was an unlucky
        break for a neighbor, whose arm was
        broken by a kick from a touchy cow."

        ME: Was this "luck" good Karma for
        Duane and bad karma for the neighbor?
        Klemp overlooks an opportunity to make
        a comment to clarify this and to point out
        the details and effects of the Law of Karma.

        BTW- Were these touchy cows "Animal
        Angels" or "Animal Devils?" They sound
        like Devils! Maybe Allen & Linda can write
        another book to cover these "Animal Devils."
        After all, if there is such a thing as "Animal
        Angels" then the opposite must also be
        true... that there are "Animal Devils!"

        HK: "Mornings and nights, Duane drove to
        Gerhard's place to milk his herd, which had
        nearly all 'kickers,' cows routinely beaten
        to make them behave."

        ME: Did Duane, also, beat them to make
        them "behave" or didn't he? HK leaves this
        info out of the story. Why doesn't Klemp
        take this opportunity to say that "Animals
        Are Soul Too!" This still applies to these
        kicking, devilish, cows... right? Anyway,
        it seems that the beatings were in retaliation
        for the kickings! DO COWS HAVE KARMA
        TOO?

        HK: "Duane was no pilgrim when it came
        to milking kickers. Our herd was full of them.
        Dad was of the same school as was Gerhard:
        beat them, and they will obey. But the cows
        never did."

        ME: So, is old Harry still harboring some ill
        will toward his father? It sounds like it to me,
        HK used a quote Jesus had, supposedly, made
        to justify in not going to his father's funeral
        around 10/19/1971 (Let the dead bury the dead).

        Prometheus

        p.s. Another thing, didn't anyone ever figure
        out to shackle the leg of a kicking cow when
        it's being milked?


        "The Mystic World" JUNE 2009 - Front Page Article

        The Mystic World of ECKankar - June 2009

        Klemp's front page article:

        "Like My Brother Duane"

        HK: "Duane was my big brother. He was
        also my North Star, a guiding light, with
        no concern whether I would let his light
        help me find my own light, and my own
        way.

        ME: It seems that as Klemp gets older
        (and sees his mortality), he's 67, he
        tends to dwell in the past more often.

        Here, Harry's reminiscing and is making
        an attempt to show that he not only had
        a loving brother who was his first "teacher,"
        but that he, also, loved and appreciated
        his brother.

        I've criticized Harry for being unloving
        and disrespectful of people in his life
        (especially with Darwin), thus, HK's now
        trying to show us that he's not all that
        insensitive after all. Except, it looks like
        HK's trying to turn his dead, and oldest,
        brother into an EK Master (Duta Kazi?),
        or a Saint!

        But, don't most brothers and sisters let
        their siblings find their own way and their
        own light! Parents and teachers attempt
        to pass on what they've learned (their own
        discovery of "light," i.e. their consciousness).
        They show these children how they too can
        fit into society and how to be successful.
        These children will, thus, have the help they
        need and be inspired to find their own`light,'
        but that's the job of parents and teachers!

        HK: "A couple of years older than me,
        he served as my bellwether."

        ME: But wasn't Gross Klemp's "spiritual"
        bellwether for ten years?

        Klemp's choice of words are both archaic
        and Freudian. 'Bellwether' is also defined
        as a lead sheep wearing a bell. Harry is the
        `bellwether' for EKists leading these mindless
        Souls to the holding pens and to the slaughterhouse
        of the KAL. He's a Judas sheep/goat!

        HK: "At age eight, he introduced me, a six-
        year-old, to after-school radio programs,
        which, until then, were only so much noise
        to me. He explained the story lines. He told
        the names of characters and their roles. The
        hero and his friends were on every week,
        their voices clear and determined, and they
        were more than ready, too, to see justice
        served to all villains."

        ME: Why doesn't Klemp mention the names
        of these programs and characters if they made
        such an impression upon him? Hmmmmmm.

        HK: "So why mention Duane? Simply because
        his expressions of creativity fueled mine too."

        ME: Actually, Klemp just copies the behaviour
        and ideas of others. Later, (at 13), Klemp's
        cousin decides to go to a private Lutheran
        school and Harry decides to follow him. Then,
        even later, after Duane becomes a pilot Harry
        decides to take flying lessons. Klemp, however,
        doesn't mention much about himself and his
        interests and hobbies. But, we can see that
        HK's not very original and "creative," (he played
        the game of follow-the-leader). Nor, did HK
        make good choices when left to his own wiles.
        That bridge jump and strip-tease is proof of
        that!

        HK: "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two,
        says of creativity: `The creative self in man
        is that through which the ECK forces work,
        and the destructive self in man is that through
        which Kal forces work.'

        ME: So, `the creative self in man' that gave
        us the ATOMIC BOMB is "the ECK" while
        `the destructive self in man' is the `Kal.'

        Klemp speaks with a forked tongue and
        from both sides of his mouth! He likes to
        have it both ways doesn't he! And, why is
        Klemp, still, quoting from Twitchell's 1971
        Shariyat 2, which is the Astral Plane "ECK/
        KAL Holy Book?"

        HK: "Duane was therefore one of my early
        teachers in showing the power of stories.
        They bring subjects to life. Today, they are
        at the core of the ECK teachings, which the
        ECK, Holy Spirit, see fit to have me pass
        along to you."

        ME: Thus, Duane was to Harry as Kay-Dee
        (Kata-Daki) was to Paul. How clever! And,
        we can see how Twitchell's tall tales and
        plagiarisms are at the `core of the ECK
        teachings' just as Klemp's mindless "stories"
        are today!

        HK: "My brother also taught me to love
        pretty things."

        ME: Isn't the ability to "love" an innate
        trait based upon consciousness? Why
        did Klemp need to be "taught" to love
        and why only "pretty things?"

        HK: "One such instance that comes
        to me is a coloring contest he entered
        around age ten. The two prior years,
        no prize. But he tried again. This was
        a Christmas contest that the newspaper
        featured each year, and with a cash
        prize for the top three winners. Duane
        chose bright colors and stayed within
        the lines.

        So now, we also try to make ECK
        publications attractive."

        ME: What does this last statement
        have to do with a coloring contest
        that Harry's oldest brother entered
        (circa) 60 years ago?

        HK: "Soon after the contest had ended,
        the mailman delivered a letter addressed
        to Duane. It said he had won third place.
        He could come anytime and pick up his
        cash prize.

        The whole family was so very proud
        of him. But, in a way, once it happened,
        I was not that surprised. He never gave
        up. Never. Once he set his mind to
        reaching some goal, he used every
        spark of creativity to reach it."

        ME: "Every spark"... even the negative,
        because the "goal," versus the Journey,
        is everything to Top Dog Klemp!

        I, too, was one of the top winners
        of a coloring contest sponsored by the
        local newspaper. There's really not all
        that much "creativity" involved when
        coloring "within the lines." Klemp seems
        to be grabbing-at-straws and exaggerating
        when he puts so much emphasis on
        "coloring within the lines." Does "within
        the lines" represent the EK Dogma with
        rules, guidelines, requirements and the
        long wait for initiations. Thus, "never give
        up, Never" is the new motto that EKists
        can use to "color" their lives.

        HK: "Walt Disney, American film producer,
        said, `If you can dream it, you can do it.'

        ME: So, Why do ECKists need a physical
        plane religion, a physical plane master,
        and a membership card? Soul can imagine
        It's own reality without the restrictions. IT
        can go directly to the Source without the
        need for a middleman! Does Soul need
        a crutch (religion) when it can "dream?"

        HK: "Henry David Throeau, writer, adds
        a qualifying footnote to that. `If one advances
        confidently in the direction of his dreams,'
        he said, `and endeavors to live the life
        which he has imagined, he will meet with
        a success unexpected in common hours.'

        ME: Actually, it's Klemp that's adding the
        "qualifying footnote" to the Walt Disney
        quote by quoting another well known person
        of the past. Why doesn't Klemp quote the
        ECK Masters? Were Walt Disney and Throeau
        EK Masters? No!

        BTW- Doesn't Klemp have anything
        original (his own) to say? Where's
        Klemp's "creativity?"

        HK: "About the time of the coloring contest,
        Duane got caught up by the model-airplane
        bug. He, at first, bought mainly plastic models,
        but he carefully applied the supplied decals
        onto the wings and body. Soon, however,
        he wanted flying models. Blah, Blah, Blah...
        It took a great deal of creativity and persistence
        to do the entire project...

        Model planes led to his desire to fly the
        real thing. So he began to save money
        for lessons. That was money hard won."

        ME: I've shortened this some of wordiness
        since Klemp's whole point is to praise his
        brother's tenacity for hard work in order
        to accomplish his dream of flying and to
        relate this to his own desires of becoming
        the LEM, and for ECKists not to give up on
        their dreams of becoming ECK Masters too!
        Well, not quite! Klemp simply gives chelas
        the goal of God-Consciousness.

        However, Klemp leaves out his relationship
        with Darwin and how he, Klemp, positioned
        himself at the ESC, and as a "writer," in order
        to get noticed and make rank. Too bad, however,
        that Klemp doesn't, also, mention that he
        (as LEM) encouraged his brother, Duane, to
        go to Mexico for Laetrile treatments when
        Duane was diagnosed with Cancer. Duane
        died, of Cancer, in the mid 1980s.

        http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

        http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile


        HK: "Blah, Blah, Blah... The point is, my
        brother followed his dreams. From him,
        I learned to follow mine.

        So when I later found ECKankar, I `locked
        on' to it, heart and Soul, like a fighter plane's
        radar locks onto a target."

        ME: When "a fighter plane's radar locks
        onto a target" it is to destroy or kill someone!

        Klemp, at the beginning of this article,
        quotes the Shariyat, "The CREATIVE self
        in man is that through which the ECK forces
        work, and the DESTRUCTIVE self in man is
        that through which the KAL forces work."
        Thus, Klemp has, unknowingly, shown
        EKists that he is of the KAL!


        HK: "Let your own goal be God Consciousness.
        Never give up. Never!"

        ME: Well, we learned a lot about Duane,
        before Klemp FINALLY makes his point!
        But, we haven't learned too much about
        old Harold, except, that he tends to trip
        himself up more often since no one (Joan
        included), or those at the ESC are, still,
        not permitted to edit the Mahanta! LOL!

        That's why HK has to keep it simple, tell
        other peoples' stories, and quote famous
        people. It, also, seems that Klemp dreamed
        of being important. That's why it wasn't
        enough for Klemp to be the EK Master and
        the big fish in the small pond of ECKankar.
        And, that's why Klemp paid to be listed in
        the "International Who's Who of Intellectuals,
        ninth edition."

        However, if the goal is "God Consciousness"
        an EKist, or anyone, doesn't need to be in,
        or remain, in ECKankar! They can dream
        their own reality and look to Walt Disney,
        Throeau, or Mark Twain, etc. for their words
        of wisdom instead of Klemp!

        Prometheus

        p.s. I wonder if Klemp ever watched the film
        "Galaxy Quest?" The term, "Never Give Up,
        Never Surrender" is a key quote. Did Klemp
        paraphrase this and "borrow" it too!
      • prometheus_973
        I thought I d add a few more thoughts and comments below. This is a perspective of Klemp that EKists are afraid to share least they get black listed on
        Message 3 of 6 , May 19, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I thought I'd add a few more thoughts
          and comments below. This is a perspective
          of Klemp that EKists are afraid to share
          least they get black listed on initiations.
          Many ECKists dare not (via fear) even allow
          themselves to look at these comments with
          insights/perspectives. They can't deal with
          the Truth standing behind the curtain! After
          all, what would they replace ECKankar with...
          a new hobby? EK H.I.'s can't believe in Self
          and that's why they need to listen to someone
          they believe to be greater like PT's and HK's
          words. Yet, why does HK quote others so
          often?

          Are ECKists allowed to think? Sometimes,
          but Not out-loud! When chelas do "think"
          out-loud it has to be EK-Speak only. They
          have to repeat the proper words and sound
          like an EK brochure. This is why "training" is
          needed. Too Critical of thinking is, always,
          forbidden in ECKankar. There are limitations
          set and only one outcome because there is,
          basically, one way in looking at Klemp's "truth."
          Some wiggle room is given in classes (Satsang)
          and training, but caution needs to be given
          because H.I.s are listening closely (some are
          spies for the RESA and this affects initiations).
          Every word/message spoken by Klemp (GOD
          on earth) must be seen as having a "positive"
          and "higher" content, thus, it can be taken out
          of context and still be the highest (according
          to the more delusional EKists). However, if
          one's analysis (and second guessing) of HK's
          choice of words and comments cannot fit
          neatly within the EK Guidelines, Rules and
          Dogma then it is rejected... and so is the chela.

          FYI:
          For the sake of space I left out some
          of the praise Klemp was giving his
          late brother Duane. However, now,
          I'd like to comment on it.

          HK: "One winter, however, at age sixteen,
          he got a lucky break. It was an unlucky
          break for a neighbor, whose arm was
          broken by a kick from a touchy cow."

          ME: Was this "luck" good Karma for
          Duane and bad karma for the neighbor?
          Klemp overlooks an opportunity to make
          a comment to clarify this and to point out
          the details and effects of the Law of Karma.

          BTW- Were these touchy cows "Animal
          Angels" or "Animal Devils?" They sound
          like Devils! Maybe Allen & Linda can write
          another book to cover these "Animal Devils."
          After all, if there is such a thing as "Animal
          Angels" then the opposite must also be
          true... that there are "Animal Devils!"

          HK: "Mornings and nights, Duane drove to
          Gerhard's place to milk his herd, which had
          nearly all 'kickers,' cows routinely beaten
          to make them behave."

          *ME: It's interesting that Klemp states that
          these are "Touchy Cows" and that's WHY
          they are "Kickers," but now it seems Klemp
          is making it seem that the cows kick because
          they are beaten. Later, HK states that the
          beatings didn't prevent them from kicking.
          IMO the farmers thought they were training
          these cows not to kick through physical discipline
          (a spanking) as they might a child... like Harry's
          father did to him? BTW- When Klemp followed
          his cousin to that private Lutheran (all boys)
          school his brother Duane was 15. This means
          that Duane had to do more chores on the farm
          Monday-Friday (and maybe weekends too)
          since little Harry was able to side-step his family
          responsibilities and his personal relationships
          with family members. Thus, Klemp's arrested
          social development!



          ME: Did Duane, also, beat the cows to make
          them "behave" or didn't he? HK leaves this
          info out of the story. Why doesn't Klemp
          take this opportunity to say that "Animals
          Are Soul Too!" This still applies to these
          kicking, devilish, cows... right? Anyway,
          it seems that the beatings were in retaliation
          for the kickings! DO COWS HAVE KARMA
          TOO?

          HK: "Duane was no pilgrim when it came
          to milking kickers. Our herd was full of them.
          Dad was of the same school as was Gerhard:
          beat them, and they will obey. But the cows
          never did."

          ME: So, is old Harry still harboring some ill
          will toward his father? It sounds like it to me,
          HK used a quote Jesus had, supposedly, made
          to justify in not going to his father's funeral
          around 10/19/1971 (Let the dead bury the dead).

          Prometheus

          p.s. Another thing, didn't anyone ever figure
          out to shackle the leg of a kicking cow when
          it's being milked?


          "The Mystic World" JUNE 2009 - Front Page Article

          The Mystic World of ECKankar - June 2009

          Klemp's front page article:

          "Like My Brother Duane"

          HK: "Duane was my big brother. He was
          also my North Star, a guiding light, with
          no concern whether I would let his light
          help me find my own light, and my own
          way.

          ME: It seems that as Klemp gets older
          (and sees his mortality), he's 67, he
          tends to dwell in the past more often.

          Here, Harry's reminiscing and is making
          an attempt to show that he not only had
          a loving brother who was his first "teacher,"
          but that he, also, loved and appreciated
          his brother.

          I've criticized Harry for being unloving
          and disrespectful of people in his life
          (especially with Darwin), thus, HK's now
          trying to show us that he's not all that
          insensitive after all. Except, it looks like
          HK's trying to turn his dead, and oldest,
          brother into an EK Master (Duta Kazi?),
          or a Saint!

          But, don't most brothers and sisters let
          their siblings find their own way and their
          own light! Parents and teachers attempt
          to pass on what they've learned (their own
          discovery of "light," i.e. their consciousness).
          They show these children how they too can
          fit into society and how to be successful.
          These children will, thus, have the help they
          need and be inspired to find their own`light,'
          but that's the job of parents and teachers!

          HK: "A couple of years older than me,
          he served as my bellwether."

          ME: But wasn't Gross Klemp's "spiritual"
          bellwether for ten years?

          Klemp's choice of words are both archaic
          and Freudian. 'Bellwether' is also defined
          as a lead sheep wearing a bell. Harry is the
          `bellwether' for EKists leading these mindless
          Souls to the holding pens and to the slaughterhouse
          of the KAL. He's a Judas sheep/goat!

          HK: "At age eight, he introduced me, a six-
          year-old, to after-school radio programs,
          which, until then, were only so much noise
          to me. He explained the story lines. He told
          the names of characters and their roles. The
          hero and his friends were on every week,
          their voices clear and determined, and they
          were more than ready, too, to see justice
          served to all villains."

          ME: Why doesn't Klemp mention the names
          of these programs and characters if they made
          such an impression upon him? Hmmmmmm.

          HK: "So why mention Duane? Simply because
          his expressions of creativity fueled mine too."

          ME: Actually, Klemp just copies the behaviour
          and ideas of others. Later, (at 13), Klemp's
          cousin decides to go to a private Lutheran
          school and Harry decides to follow him. Then,
          even later, after Duane becomes a pilot Harry
          decides to take flying lessons. Klemp, however,
          doesn't mention much about himself and his
          interests and hobbies. But, we can see that
          HK's not very original and "creative," (he played-
          the-game of follow-the-leader). Nor, did HK
          make good choices when left to his own wiles.
          That bridge jump and strip-tease is proof of
          that! Then, after being locked-up in a mental
          institution HK said that he 'played-the-game'
          with the doctor in order to be released early.

          HK: "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two,
          says of creativity: `The creative self in man
          is that through which the ECK forces work,
          and the destructive self in man is that through
          which Kal forces work.'

          ME: So, `the creative self in man' that gave
          us the ATOMIC BOMB is "the ECK" while
          `the destructive self in man' is the `Kal.'

          *Besides, does Klemp ever point out that
          these "creative" dreams occur in the Astral
          Region and that KAL rules these Lower Planes!
          Thus, "creativity" is either positive or negative,
          but both are the same in that they are both
          the ECK and are both under the control of
          the KAL! Thus, Klemp is wrong about the
          "creative" (positive) and "destructive" (negative)
          sides. Both are the ECK in the Lower Planes
          and both are of the KAL (Sugmad's representative)!

          Klemp speaks with a forked tongue and
          from both sides of his mouth (a lower KAL
          agent)! He likes to have it both ways doesn't
          he! And, Why is Klemp, still, quoting from
          Twitchell's 1971 Shariyat 2, which is the Astral
          Plane "ECK/KAL" Holy Book?

          HK: "Duane was therefore one of my early
          teachers in showing the power of stories.
          They bring subjects to life. Today, they are
          at the core of the ECK teachings, which the
          ECK, Holy Spirit, see fit to have me pass
          along to you."

          ME: Thus, Duane (Duta Kazi) was to Harry
          as Kay-Dee (Kata-Daki) was to Paul. How
          clever! And, we can see how Twitchell's tall
          tales and plagiarisms are at the `core of
          the ECK teachings' just as Klemp's mindless
          "stories" are today!

          HK: "My brother also taught me to love
          pretty things."

          ME: Isn't the ability to "love" an innate
          trait based upon consciousness? Why
          did Klemp need to be "taught" to love
          and why only "pretty things?"

          HK: "One such instance that comes
          to me is a coloring contest he entered
          around age ten. The two prior years,
          no prize. But he tried again. This was
          a Christmas contest that the newspaper
          featured each year, and with a cash
          prize for the top three winners. Duane
          chose bright colors and stayed within
          the lines.

          So now, we also try to make ECK
          publications attractive."

          ME: What does this last statement
          have to do with a coloring contest
          that Harry's oldest brother entered
          (circa) 60 years ago?

          HK: "Soon after the contest had ended,
          the mailman delivered a letter addressed
          to Duane. It said he had won third place.
          He could come anytime and pick up his
          cash prize.

          The whole family was so very proud
          of him. But, in a way, once it happened,
          I was not that surprised. He never gave
          up. Never. Once he set his mind to
          reaching some goal, he used every
          spark of creativity to reach it."

          ME: With Klemp, using "every spark of
          creativity," even from the Astral, in order
          to reach one's "goal," also, includes the
          use of the negative. Look at how Klemp
          "creatively" removed Darwin in order to
          become the Mahanta. The "goal," versus
          the Journey, is everything to Top Dog
          Klemp!

          BTW- I, too, was one of the top winners
          of a coloring contest sponsored by the
          local newspaper. There's really not all
          that much "creativity" involved when
          coloring "within the lines." Klemp seems
          to be grabbing-at-straws and exaggerating
          when he puts so much emphasis on
          "coloring within the lines." Does "within
          the lines" represent the EK Dogma with
          rules, guidelines, requirements and the
          long wait for initiations. Thus, "Never Give
          Up, Never" is the new motto that EKists
          can use to "color" their lives.

          HK: "Walt Disney, American film producer,
          said, `If you can dream it, you can do it.'

          ME: So, Why do ECKists need a physical
          plane religion, a physical plane master,
          and a membership card? Soul can imagine
          It's own reality without the restrictions. IT
          can go directly to the Source without the
          need for a middleman! Does Soul need
          a crutch (religion) when it can "dream?"

          HK: "Henry David Throeau, writer, adds
          a qualifying footnote to that. `If one advances
          confidently in the direction of his dreams,'
          he said, `and endeavors to live the life
          which he has imagined, he will meet with
          a success unexpected in common hours.'

          ME: Actually, it's Klemp that's adding the
          "qualifying footnote" to the Walt Disney
          quote by quoting another well known person
          of the past. Why doesn't Klemp quote the
          ECK Masters? Were Walt Disney and Throeau
          EK Masters? No! And neither is Klemp!

          BTW- Doesn't Klemp have anything
          original (his own) to say? Where's
          Klemp's "creativity?"

          HK: "About the time of the coloring contest,
          Duane got caught up by the model-airplane
          bug. He, at first, bought mainly plastic models,
          but he carefully applied the supplied decals
          onto the wings and body. Soon, however,
          he wanted flying models. Blah, Blah, Blah...
          It took a great deal of creativity and persistence
          to do the entire project...

          Model planes led to his desire to fly the
          real thing. So he began to save money
          for lessons. That was money hard won."

          ME: I've shortened this some due to Klemp's
          endless ramblings and wordiness. Klemp's
          whole point is to praise his brother's tenacity
          for hard work in order to accomplish his
          dream (or obsessiveness) of flying and to
          relate this to his own desires (obsessiveness)
          of becoming the Mahanta, and for ECKists
          not to give up on their dreams of becoming
          ECK Masters too! Well, not quite! Klemp simply
          gives chelas the goal of God-Consciousness.

          However, Klemp leaves out his relationship
          with Darwin and how he, Klemp, positioned
          himself at the ESC, and as a "writer," in order
          to get noticed and make rank. Too bad, however,
          that Klemp doesn't, also, mention that he
          (as LEM) encouraged his brother, Duane, to
          go to Mexico for Laetrile treatments when
          Duane was diagnosed with Cancer. Duane
          died, of Cancer, in the mid 1980s.

          http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

          http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile

          HK: "Blah, Blah, Blah... The point is, my
          brother followed his dreams. From him,
          I learned to follow mine.

          So when I later found ECKankar, I `locked
          on' to it, heart and Soul, like a fighter plane's
          radar locks onto a target."

          ME: When "a fighter plane's radar locks
          onto a target" it is to destroy and kill someone!

          WHY would the M/LEM use such a negative
          analogy, unless, he's fallen from Grace as
          did Darwin! HK should have stepped down
          long ago, but he's had a death grip upon the
          ROD, his Title, and the Power. It's like holding
          onto an electrified pole and not being able
          to let go until the connection is burned away
          and is, thus, broken. Thus, HK's continuing
          EMF problems and rapid aging are due to the
          "Karma" related to his Not letting go of the
          Rod of ECK Power, years ago, and Not for the
          reasons Klemp claims!

          Klemp, at the beginning of this article,
          quotes the Shariyat, "The CREATIVE self
          in man is that through which the ECK forces
          work, and the DESTRUCTIVE self in man is
          that through which the KAL forces work."
          Thus, Klemp has, unknowingly, shown
          EKists that he is of the KAL with his comment
          of "I locked onto it (the Mahanta position)
          like a fighter plane's radar locks onto a target."
          Then, Klemp shot Darwin down with the aid
          of his wingman Peter! How else could Klemp
          become the Mahanta so quickly and reach
          his obsessive goal of being high above others
          (whom in normal society would be above him).

          HK: "Let your own goal be God Consciousness.
          Never give up. Never!"

          ME: Well, we learned a lot about Duane,
          before Klemp FINALLY makes his point!
          But, we haven't learned too much about
          old Harold, except, that he tends to trip
          himself up more often since no one (Joan
          included), or those at the ESC are, still,
          not permitted to edit the Mahanta! LOL!

          That's why HK has to keep it simple, tell
          other peoples' stories, and quote famous
          people. It, also, seems that Klemp dreamed
          of being important. That's why it wasn't
          enough for Klemp to be the EK Master and
          the big fish in the small pond of ECKankar.
          And, that's why Klemp paid to be listed in
          the "International Who's Who of Intellectuals,
          ninth edition."

          However, if the goal is "God Consciousness"
          an EKist, or anyone, doesn't need to be in,
          or remain, in ECKankar! They can dream
          their own reality and look to Walt Disney,
          Throeau, or Mark Twain, etc. for their words
          of wisdom instead of Klemp!

          Prometheus

          p.s. I think Klemp stole (and shortened)
          his quote "Never Give Up, Never" from
          the movie "Galaxy Quest!" The term,
          "Never Give Up, Never Surrender" is
          a key quote in this very funny movie.
          Klemp paraphrased this, but decided
          not to add the "Surrender" because,
          then, people would absolutely see
          where he stole it.
        • prometheus_973
          Klemp first told of these kicking cows in his 1980 book The Wind of Change. At this time Klemp was 26 (versus 13 when Duane, supposedly, had his kicking
          Message 4 of 6 , May 21, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Klemp first told of these 'kicking cows'
            in his 1980 book "The Wind of Change."
            At this time Klemp was 26 (versus 13
            when Duane, supposedly, had his kicking
            cow experiences). HK had just been
            discharged from the Air Force, late 1968,
            and went back to the farm to work during
            the winter of 1968-1969.

            Harry finally got to experience the 'kickers'
            instead of Duane, or the others who had
            to milk the cows in place of Harry for all
            those years. Harold missed out on those
            character building experiences since he
            was living at a private, all boys, Lutheran
            school that his whole family sacrificed to
            pay for. Thus, Harold mostly stayed away
            from the farm during Junior high, High
            school, and while in the Seminary for two
            years. Then, Harry went into the Air Force
            for four years!

            In his "Windy" book, Harry states that he returns
            to the farm and has to do chores like milking
            cows. HK refers to these cows (Animal Angels?)
            as:

            "high-kicking; fire-breathing; nasty; lightning-fast;
            renegades; fire-spitting; and wild." [pages 54-57]

            However, now, in the June 2009 Mystic World
            article Klemp doesn't use any of these descriptions
            as he recounts the story about the cows.

            By '68-'69 Klemp claims to have had "creative"
            dreams, spiritual insights and meetings with
            EK Masters, etc. But still, HK doesn't have enough
            common sense, or creativity to shackle the legs
            of these Demon like High-Kicking Cows! LOL!

            BUT, even today, Klemp doesn't suggest that
            he Should Have SHACKLED the hind legs of
            these "kickers." HK's, still, just as clueless about
            using this safety measure!

            Anyway, the first story with Duane, and the cows,
            takes place in 1955, but is recounted in 2009.

            "The Wind of Change" story, with Harry and
            the cows, takes place in 1968-1969 and is
            recounted in 1980!

            Interesting, that it takes Klemp about 13 years
            to tell the one story with himself and the cows,
            and 54 years to, just now, tell the other story
            with Duane and the cows! What happened with
            mentioning either of these stories in his 2000
            "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet?"

            If it wasn't for 20/20 hindsight Klemp wouldn't
            have any stories to retell and "change" around to
            make himself look "special!" It just proves how
            delusional one has to be to actually think that
            Klemp had any more of a "spiritual" childhood
            than anyone else did! Then again, How many
            people can claim to be the Mahanta/God (!)

            Well, on second thought, there are a lot of
            people out there (or locked up) that claim to
            be God, and some (in the past and today) have/
            had a lot of followers! Does might (numbers)
            still make (it) right? I don't see it, but for some
            reason (brain-washing?) EKists think they're just
            as special and even more so! They're so vain!

            Prometheus


            Klemp Overlooks Making "Animal/Angel/Soul" Comments!

            I thought I'd add a few more thoughts
            and comments below. This is a perspective
            of Klemp that EKists are afraid to share
            least they get black listed on initiations.
            Many ECKists dare not (via fear) even allow
            themselves to look at these comments with
            insights/perspectives. They can't deal with
            the Truth standing behind the curtain! After
            all, what would they replace ECKankar with...
            a new hobby? EK H.I.'s can't believe in Self
            and that's why they need to listen to someone
            they believe to be greater like PT's and HK's
            words. Yet, why does HK quote others so
            often?

            Are ECKists allowed to think? Sometimes,
            but Not out-loud! When chelas do "think"
            out-loud it has to be EK-Speak only. They
            have to repeat the proper words and sound
            like an EK brochure. This is why "training" is
            needed. Too Critical of thinking is, always,
            forbidden in ECKankar. There are limitations
            set and only one outcome because there is,
            basically, one way in looking at Klemp's "truth."
            Some wiggle room is given in classes (Satsang)
            and training, but caution needs to be given
            because H.I.s are listening closely (some are
            spies for the RESA and this affects initiations).
            Every word/message spoken by Klemp (GOD
            on earth) must be seen as having a "positive"
            and "higher" content, thus, it can be taken out
            of context and still be the highest (according
            to the more delusional EKists). However, if
            one's analysis (and second guessing) of HK's
            choice of words and comments cannot fit
            neatly within the EK Guidelines, Rules and
            Dogma then it is rejected... and so is the chela.

            FYI:
            For the sake of space I left out some
            of the praise Klemp was giving his
            late brother Duane. However, now,
            I'd like to comment on it.

            HK: "One winter, however, at age sixteen,
            he got a lucky break. It was an unlucky
            break for a neighbor, whose arm was
            broken by a kick from a touchy cow."

            ME: Was this "luck" good Karma for
            Duane and bad karma for the neighbor?
            Klemp overlooks an opportunity to make
            a comment to clarify this and to point out
            the details and effects of the Law of Karma.

            BTW- Were these touchy cows "Animal
            Angels" or "Animal Devils?" They sound
            like Devils! Maybe Allen & Linda can write
            another book to cover these "Animal Devils."
            After all, if there is such a thing as "Animal
            Angels" then the opposite must also be
            true... that there are "Animal Devils!"

            HK: "Mornings and nights, Duane drove to
            Gerhard's place to milk his herd, which had
            nearly all 'kickers,' cows routinely beaten
            to make them behave."

            *ME: It's interesting that Klemp states that
            these are "Touchy Cows" and that's WHY
            they are "Kickers," but now it seems Klemp
            is making it seem that the cows kick because
            they are beaten. Later, HK states that the
            beatings didn't prevent them from kicking.
            IMO the farmers thought they were training
            these cows not to kick through physical discipline
            (a spanking) as they might a child... like Harry's
            father did to him? BTW- When Klemp followed
            his cousin to that private Lutheran (all boys)
            school his brother Duane was 15. This means
            that Duane had to do more chores on the farm
            Monday-Friday (and maybe weekends too)
            since little Harry was able to side-step his family
            responsibilities and his personal relationships
            with family members. Thus, Klemp's arrested
            social development!

            ME: Did Duane, also, beat the cows to make
            them "behave" or didn't he? HK leaves this
            info out of the story. Why doesn't Klemp
            take this opportunity to say that "Animals
            Are Soul Too!" This still applies to these
            kicking, devilish, cows... right? Anyway,
            it seems that the beatings were in retaliation
            for the kickings! DO COWS HAVE KARMA
            TOO?

            HK: "Duane was no pilgrim when it came
            to milking kickers. Our herd was full of them.
            Dad was of the same school as was Gerhard:
            beat them, and they will obey. But the cows
            never did."

            ME: So, is old Harry still harboring some ill
            will toward his father? It sounds like it to me,
            HK used a quote Jesus had, supposedly, made
            to justify in not going to his father's funeral
            around 10/19/1971 (Let the dead bury the dead).

            Prometheus

            p.s. Another thing, didn't anyone ever figure
            out to shackle the leg of a kicking cow when
            it's being milked?


            "The Mystic World" JUNE 2009 - Front Page Article

            The Mystic World of ECKankar - June 2009

            Klemp's front page article:

            "Like My Brother Duane"

            HK: "Duane was my big brother. He was
            also my North Star, a guiding light, with
            no concern whether I would let his light
            help me find my own light, and my own
            way.

            ME: It seems that as Klemp gets older
            (and sees his mortality), he's 67, he
            tends to dwell in the past more often.

            Here, Harry's reminiscing and is making
            an attempt to show that he not only had
            a loving brother who was his first "teacher,"
            but that he, also, loved and appreciated
            his brother.

            I've criticized Harry for being unloving
            and disrespectful of people in his life
            (especially with Darwin), thus, HK's now
            trying to show us that he's not all that
            insensitive after all. Except, it looks like
            HK's trying to turn his dead, and oldest,
            brother into an EK Master (Duta Kazi?),
            or a Saint!

            But, don't most brothers and sisters let
            their siblings find their own way and their
            own light! Parents and teachers attempt
            to pass on what they've learned (their own
            discovery of "light," i.e. their consciousness).
            They show these children how they too can
            fit into society and how to be successful.
            These children will, thus, have the help they
            need and be inspired to find their own`light,'
            but that's the job of parents and teachers!

            HK: "A couple of years older than me,
            he served as my bellwether."

            ME: But wasn't Gross Klemp's "spiritual"
            bellwether for ten years?

            Klemp's choice of words are both archaic
            and Freudian. 'Bellwether' is also defined
            as a lead sheep wearing a bell. Harry is the
            `bellwether' for EKists leading these mindless
            Souls to the holding pens and to the slaughterhouse
            of the KAL. He's a Judas sheep/goat!

            HK: "At age eight, he introduced me, a six-
            year-old, to after-school radio programs,
            which, until then, were only so much noise
            to me. He explained the story lines. He told
            the names of characters and their roles. The
            hero and his friends were on every week,
            their voices clear and determined, and they
            were more than ready, too, to see justice
            served to all villains."

            ME: Why doesn't Klemp mention the names
            of these programs and characters if they made
            such an impression upon him? Hmmmmmm.

            HK: "So why mention Duane? Simply because
            his expressions of creativity fueled mine too."

            ME: Actually, Klemp just copies the behaviour
            and ideas of others. Later, (at 13), Klemp's
            cousin decides to go to a private Lutheran
            school and Harry decides to follow him. Then,
            even later, after Duane becomes a pilot Harry
            decides to take flying lessons. Klemp, however,
            doesn't mention much about himself and his
            interests and hobbies. But, we can see that
            HK's not very original and "creative," (he played-
            the-game of follow-the-leader). Nor, did HK
            make good choices when left to his own wiles.
            That bridge jump and strip-tease is proof of
            that! Then, after being locked-up in a mental
            institution HK said that he 'played-the-game'
            with the doctor in order to be released early.

            HK: "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two,
            says of creativity: `The creative self in man
            is that through which the ECK forces work,
            and the destructive self in man is that through
            which Kal forces work.'

            ME: So, `the creative self in man' that gave
            us the ATOMIC BOMB is "the ECK" while
            `the destructive self in man' is the `Kal.'

            *Besides, does Klemp ever point out that
            these "creative" dreams occur in the Astral
            Region and that KAL rules these Lower Planes!
            Thus, "creativity" is either positive or negative,
            but both are the same in that they are both
            the ECK and are both under the control of
            the KAL! Thus, Klemp is wrong about the
            "creative" (positive) and "destructive" (negative)
            sides. Both are the ECK in the Lower Planes
            and both are of the KAL (Sugmad's representative)!

            Klemp speaks with a forked tongue and
            from both sides of his mouth (a lower KAL
            agent)! He likes to have it both ways doesn't
            he! And, Why is Klemp, still, quoting from
            Twitchell's 1971 Shariyat 2, which is the Astral
            Plane "ECK/KAL" Holy Book?

            HK: "Duane was therefore one of my early
            teachers in showing the power of stories.
            They bring subjects to life. Today, they are
            at the core of the ECK teachings, which the
            ECK, Holy Spirit, see fit to have me pass
            along to you."

            ME: Thus, Duane (Duta Kazi) was to Harry
            as Kay-Dee (Kata-Daki) was to Paul. How
            clever! And, we can see how Twitchell's tall
            tales and plagiarisms are at the `core of
            the ECK teachings' just as Klemp's mindless
            "stories" are today!

            HK: "My brother also taught me to love
            pretty things."

            ME: Isn't the ability to "love" an innate
            trait based upon consciousness? Why
            did Klemp need to be "taught" to love
            and why only "pretty things?"

            HK: "One such instance that comes
            to me is a coloring contest he entered
            around age ten. The two prior years,
            no prize. But he tried again. This was
            a Christmas contest that the newspaper
            featured each year, and with a cash
            prize for the top three winners. Duane
            chose bright colors and stayed within
            the lines.

            So now, we also try to make ECK
            publications attractive."

            ME: What does this last statement
            have to do with a coloring contest
            that Harry's oldest brother entered
            (circa) 60 years ago?

            HK: "Soon after the contest had ended,
            the mailman delivered a letter addressed
            to Duane. It said he had won third place.
            He could come anytime and pick up his
            cash prize.

            The whole family was so very proud
            of him. But, in a way, once it happened,
            I was not that surprised. He never gave
            up. Never. Once he set his mind to
            reaching some goal, he used every
            spark of creativity to reach it."

            ME: With Klemp, using "every spark of
            creativity," even from the Astral, in order
            to reach one's "goal," also, includes the
            use of the negative. Look at how Klemp
            "creatively" removed Darwin in order to
            become the Mahanta. The "goal," versus
            the Journey, is everything to Top Dog
            Klemp!

            BTW- I, too, was one of the top winners
            of a coloring contest sponsored by the
            local newspaper. There's really not all
            that much "creativity" involved when
            coloring "within the lines." Klemp seems
            to be grabbing-at-straws and exaggerating
            when he puts so much emphasis on
            "coloring within the lines." Does "within
            the lines" represent the EK Dogma with
            rules, guidelines, requirements and the
            long wait for initiations. Thus, "Never Give
            Up, Never" is the new motto that EKists
            can use to "color" their lives.

            HK: "Walt Disney, American film producer,
            said, `If you can dream it, you can do it.'

            ME: So, Why do ECKists need a physical
            plane religion, a physical plane master,
            and a membership card? Soul can imagine
            It's own reality without the restrictions. IT
            can go directly to the Source without the
            need for a middleman! Does Soul need
            a crutch (religion) when it can "dream?"

            HK: "Henry David Throeau, writer, adds
            a qualifying footnote to that. `If one advances
            confidently in the direction of his dreams,'
            he said, `and endeavors to live the life
            which he has imagined, he will meet with
            a success unexpected in common hours.'

            ME: Actually, it's Klemp that's adding the
            "qualifying footnote" to the Walt Disney
            quote by quoting another well known person
            of the past. Why doesn't Klemp quote the
            ECK Masters? Were Walt Disney and Throeau
            EK Masters? No! And neither is Klemp!

            BTW- Doesn't Klemp have anything
            original (his own) to say? Where's
            Klemp's "creativity?"

            HK: "About the time of the coloring contest,
            Duane got caught up by the model-airplane
            bug. He, at first, bought mainly plastic models,
            but he carefully applied the supplied decals
            onto the wings and body. Soon, however,
            he wanted flying models. Blah, Blah, Blah...
            It took a great deal of creativity and persistence
            to do the entire project...

            Model planes led to his desire to fly the
            real thing. So he began to save money
            for lessons. That was money hard won."

            ME: I've shortened this some due to Klemp's
            endless ramblings and wordiness. Klemp's
            whole point is to praise his brother's tenacity
            for hard work in order to accomplish his
            dream (or obsessiveness) of flying and to
            relate this to his own desires (obsessiveness)
            of becoming the Mahanta, and for ECKists
            not to give up on their dreams of becoming
            ECK Masters too! Well, not quite! Klemp simply
            gives chelas the goal of God-Consciousness.

            However, Klemp leaves out his relationship
            with Darwin and how he, Klemp, positioned
            himself at the ESC, and as a "writer," in order
            to get noticed and make rank. Too bad, however,
            that Klemp doesn't, also, mention that he
            (as LEM) encouraged his brother, Duane, to
            go to Mexico for Laetrile treatments when
            Duane was diagnosed with Cancer. Duane
            died, of Cancer, in the mid 1980s.

            http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html

            http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile

            HK: "Blah, Blah, Blah... The point is, my
            brother followed his dreams. From him,
            I learned to follow mine.

            So when I later found ECKankar, I `locked
            on' to it, heart and Soul, like a fighter plane's
            radar locks onto a target."

            ME: When "a fighter plane's radar locks
            onto a target" it is to destroy and kill someone!

            WHY would the M/LEM use such a negative
            analogy, unless, he's fallen from Grace as
            did Darwin! HK should have stepped down
            long ago, but he's had a death grip upon the
            ROD, his Title, and the Power. It's like holding
            onto an electrified pole and not being able
            to let go until the connection is burned away
            and is, thus, broken. Thus, HK's continuing
            EMF problems and rapid aging are due to the
            "Karma" related to his Not letting go of the
            Rod of ECK Power, years ago, and Not for the
            reasons Klemp claims!

            Klemp, at the beginning of this article,
            quotes the Shariyat, "The CREATIVE self
            in man is that through which the ECK forces
            work, and the DESTRUCTIVE self in man is
            that through which the KAL forces work."
            Thus, Klemp has, unknowingly, shown
            EKists that he is of the KAL with his comment
            of "I locked onto it (the Mahanta position)
            like a fighter plane's radar locks onto a target."
            Then, Klemp shot Darwin down with the aid
            of his wingman Peter! How else could Klemp
            become the Mahanta so quickly and reach
            his obsessive goal of being high above others
            (whom in normal society would be above him).

            HK: "Let your own goal be God Consciousness.
            Never give up. Never!"

            ME: Well, we learned a lot about Duane,
            before Klemp FINALLY makes his point!
            But, we haven't learned too much about
            old Harold, except, that he tends to trip
            himself up more often since no one (Joan
            included), or those at the ESC are, still,
            not permitted to edit the Mahanta! LOL!

            That's why HK has to keep it simple, tell
            other peoples' stories, and quote famous
            people. It, also, seems that Klemp dreamed
            of being important. That's why it wasn't
            enough for Klemp to be the EK Master and
            the big fish in the small pond of ECKankar.
            And, that's why Klemp paid to be listed in
            the "International Who's Who of Intellectuals,
            ninth edition."

            However, if the goal is "God Consciousness"
            an EKist, or anyone, doesn't need to be in,
            or remain, in ECKankar! They can dream
            their own reality and look to Walt Disney,
            Throeau, or Mark Twain, etc. for their words
            of wisdom instead of Klemp!

            Prometheus

            p.s. I think Klemp stole (and shortened)
            his quote "Never Give Up, Never" from
            the movie "Galaxy Quest!" The term,
            "Never Give Up, Never Surrender" is
            a key quote in this very funny movie.
            Klemp paraphrased this, but decided
            not to add the "Surrender" because,
            then, people would absolutely see
            where he stole it.
          • noneckster
            As far as Klemp s VANITY and other H I s, here is a quote from Thoreau: How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live. LOL Non
            Message 5 of 6 , May 22, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              As far as Klemp's VANITY and other H I's, here is a quote from Thoreau: "How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live." LOL

              Non Eckster ; )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Klemp first told of these 'kicking cows'
              > in his 1980 book "The Wind of Change."
              > At this time Klemp was 26 (versus 13
              > when Duane, supposedly, had his kicking
              > cow experiences). HK had just been
              > discharged from the Air Force, late 1968,
              > and went back to the farm to work during
              > the winter of 1968-1969.
              >
              > Harry finally got to experience the 'kickers'
              > instead of Duane, or the others who had
              > to milk the cows in place of Harry for all
              > those years. Harold missed out on those
              > character building experiences since he
              > was living at a private, all boys, Lutheran
              > school that his whole family sacrificed to
              > pay for. Thus, Harold mostly stayed away
              > from the farm during Junior high, High
              > school, and while in the Seminary for two
              > years. Then, Harry went into the Air Force
              > for four years!
              >
              > In his "Windy" book, Harry states that he returns
              > to the farm and has to do chores like milking
              > cows. HK refers to these cows (Animal Angels?)
              > as:
              >
              > "high-kicking; fire-breathing; nasty; lightning-fast;
              > renegades; fire-spitting; and wild." [pages 54-57]
              >
              > However, now, in the June 2009 Mystic World
              > article Klemp doesn't use any of these descriptions
              > as he recounts the story about the cows.
              >
              > By '68-'69 Klemp claims to have had "creative"
              > dreams, spiritual insights and meetings with
              > EK Masters, etc. But still, HK doesn't have enough
              > common sense, or creativity to shackle the legs
              > of these Demon like High-Kicking Cows! LOL!
              >
              > BUT, even today, Klemp doesn't suggest that
              > he Should Have SHACKLED the hind legs of
              > these "kickers." HK's, still, just as clueless about
              > using this safety measure!
              >
              > Anyway, the first story with Duane, and the cows,
              > takes place in 1955, but is recounted in 2009.
              >
              > "The Wind of Change" story, with Harry and
              > the cows, takes place in 1968-1969 and is
              > recounted in 1980!
              >
              > Interesting, that it takes Klemp about 13 years
              > to tell the one story with himself and the cows,
              > and 54 years to, just now, tell the other story
              > with Duane and the cows! What happened with
              > mentioning either of these stories in his 2000
              > "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet?"
              >
              > If it wasn't for 20/20 hindsight Klemp wouldn't
              > have any stories to retell and "change" around to
              > make himself look "special!" It just proves how
              > delusional one has to be to actually think that
              > Klemp had any more of a "spiritual" childhood
              > than anyone else did! Then again, How many
              > people can claim to be the Mahanta/God (!)
              >
              > Well, on second thought, there are a lot of
              > people out there (or locked up) that claim to
              > be God, and some (in the past and today) have/
              > had a lot of followers! Does might (numbers)
              > still make (it) right? I don't see it, but for some
              > reason (brain-washing?) EKists think they're just
              > as special and even more so! They're so vain!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > Klemp Overlooks Making "Animal/Angel/Soul" Comments!
              >
              > I thought I'd add a few more thoughts
              > and comments below. This is a perspective
              > of Klemp that EKists are afraid to share
              > least they get black listed on initiations.
              > Many ECKists dare not (via fear) even allow
              > themselves to look at these comments with
              > insights/perspectives. They can't deal with
              > the Truth standing behind the curtain! After
              > all, what would they replace ECKankar with...
              > a new hobby? EK H.I.'s can't believe in Self
              > and that's why they need to listen to someone
              > they believe to be greater like PT's and HK's
              > words. Yet, why does HK quote others so
              > often?
              >
              > Are ECKists allowed to think? Sometimes,
              > but Not out-loud! When chelas do "think"
              > out-loud it has to be EK-Speak only. They
              > have to repeat the proper words and sound
              > like an EK brochure. This is why "training" is
              > needed. Too Critical of thinking is, always,
              > forbidden in ECKankar. There are limitations
              > set and only one outcome because there is,
              > basically, one way in looking at Klemp's "truth."
              > Some wiggle room is given in classes (Satsang)
              > and training, but caution needs to be given
              > because H.I.s are listening closely (some are
              > spies for the RESA and this affects initiations).
              > Every word/message spoken by Klemp (GOD
              > on earth) must be seen as having a "positive"
              > and "higher" content, thus, it can be taken out
              > of context and still be the highest (according
              > to the more delusional EKists). However, if
              > one's analysis (and second guessing) of HK's
              > choice of words and comments cannot fit
              > neatly within the EK Guidelines, Rules and
              > Dogma then it is rejected... and so is the chela.
              >
              > FYI:
              > For the sake of space I left out some
              > of the praise Klemp was giving his
              > late brother Duane. However, now,
              > I'd like to comment on it.
              >
              > HK: "One winter, however, at age sixteen,
              > he got a lucky break. It was an unlucky
              > break for a neighbor, whose arm was
              > broken by a kick from a touchy cow."
              >
              > ME: Was this "luck" good Karma for
              > Duane and bad karma for the neighbor?
              > Klemp overlooks an opportunity to make
              > a comment to clarify this and to point out
              > the details and effects of the Law of Karma.
              >
              > BTW- Were these touchy cows "Animal
              > Angels" or "Animal Devils?" They sound
              > like Devils! Maybe Allen & Linda can write
              > another book to cover these "Animal Devils."
              > After all, if there is such a thing as "Animal
              > Angels" then the opposite must also be
              > true... that there are "Animal Devils!"
              >
              > HK: "Mornings and nights, Duane drove to
              > Gerhard's place to milk his herd, which had
              > nearly all 'kickers,' cows routinely beaten
              > to make them behave."
              >
              > *ME: It's interesting that Klemp states that
              > these are "Touchy Cows" and that's WHY
              > they are "Kickers," but now it seems Klemp
              > is making it seem that the cows kick because
              > they are beaten. Later, HK states that the
              > beatings didn't prevent them from kicking.
              > IMO the farmers thought they were training
              > these cows not to kick through physical discipline
              > (a spanking) as they might a child... like Harry's
              > father did to him? BTW- When Klemp followed
              > his cousin to that private Lutheran (all boys)
              > school his brother Duane was 15. This means
              > that Duane had to do more chores on the farm
              > Monday-Friday (and maybe weekends too)
              > since little Harry was able to side-step his family
              > responsibilities and his personal relationships
              > with family members. Thus, Klemp's arrested
              > social development!
              >
              > ME: Did Duane, also, beat the cows to make
              > them "behave" or didn't he? HK leaves this
              > info out of the story. Why doesn't Klemp
              > take this opportunity to say that "Animals
              > Are Soul Too!" This still applies to these
              > kicking, devilish, cows... right? Anyway,
              > it seems that the beatings were in retaliation
              > for the kickings! DO COWS HAVE KARMA
              > TOO?
              >
              > HK: "Duane was no pilgrim when it came
              > to milking kickers. Our herd was full of them.
              > Dad was of the same school as was Gerhard:
              > beat them, and they will obey. But the cows
              > never did."
              >
              > ME: So, is old Harry still harboring some ill
              > will toward his father? It sounds like it to me,
              > HK used a quote Jesus had, supposedly, made
              > to justify in not going to his father's funeral
              > around 10/19/1971 (Let the dead bury the dead).
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > p.s. Another thing, didn't anyone ever figure
              > out to shackle the leg of a kicking cow when
              > it's being milked?
              >
              >
              > "The Mystic World" JUNE 2009 - Front Page Article
              >
              > The Mystic World of ECKankar - June 2009
              >
              > Klemp's front page article:
              >
              > "Like My Brother Duane"
              >
              > HK: "Duane was my big brother. He was
              > also my North Star, a guiding light, with
              > no concern whether I would let his light
              > help me find my own light, and my own
              > way.
              >
              > ME: It seems that as Klemp gets older
              > (and sees his mortality), he's 67, he
              > tends to dwell in the past more often.
              >
              > Here, Harry's reminiscing and is making
              > an attempt to show that he not only had
              > a loving brother who was his first "teacher,"
              > but that he, also, loved and appreciated
              > his brother.
              >
              > I've criticized Harry for being unloving
              > and disrespectful of people in his life
              > (especially with Darwin), thus, HK's now
              > trying to show us that he's not all that
              > insensitive after all. Except, it looks like
              > HK's trying to turn his dead, and oldest,
              > brother into an EK Master (Duta Kazi?),
              > or a Saint!
              >
              > But, don't most brothers and sisters let
              > their siblings find their own way and their
              > own light! Parents and teachers attempt
              > to pass on what they've learned (their own
              > discovery of "light," i.e. their consciousness).
              > They show these children how they too can
              > fit into society and how to be successful.
              > These children will, thus, have the help they
              > need and be inspired to find their own`light,'
              > but that's the job of parents and teachers!
              >
              > HK: "A couple of years older than me,
              > he served as my bellwether."
              >
              > ME: But wasn't Gross Klemp's "spiritual"
              > bellwether for ten years?
              >
              > Klemp's choice of words are both archaic
              > and Freudian. 'Bellwether' is also defined
              > as a lead sheep wearing a bell. Harry is the
              > `bellwether' for EKists leading these mindless
              > Souls to the holding pens and to the slaughterhouse
              > of the KAL. He's a Judas sheep/goat!
              >
              > HK: "At age eight, he introduced me, a six-
              > year-old, to after-school radio programs,
              > which, until then, were only so much noise
              > to me. He explained the story lines. He told
              > the names of characters and their roles. The
              > hero and his friends were on every week,
              > their voices clear and determined, and they
              > were more than ready, too, to see justice
              > served to all villains."
              >
              > ME: Why doesn't Klemp mention the names
              > of these programs and characters if they made
              > such an impression upon him? Hmmmmmm.
              >
              > HK: "So why mention Duane? Simply because
              > his expressions of creativity fueled mine too."
              >
              > ME: Actually, Klemp just copies the behaviour
              > and ideas of others. Later, (at 13), Klemp's
              > cousin decides to go to a private Lutheran
              > school and Harry decides to follow him. Then,
              > even later, after Duane becomes a pilot Harry
              > decides to take flying lessons. Klemp, however,
              > doesn't mention much about himself and his
              > interests and hobbies. But, we can see that
              > HK's not very original and "creative," (he played-
              > the-game of follow-the-leader). Nor, did HK
              > make good choices when left to his own wiles.
              > That bridge jump and strip-tease is proof of
              > that! Then, after being locked-up in a mental
              > institution HK said that he 'played-the-game'
              > with the doctor in order to be released early.
              >
              > HK: "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two,
              > says of creativity: `The creative self in man
              > is that through which the ECK forces work,
              > and the destructive self in man is that through
              > which Kal forces work.'
              >
              > ME: So, `the creative self in man' that gave
              > us the ATOMIC BOMB is "the ECK" while
              > `the destructive self in man' is the `Kal.'
              >
              > *Besides, does Klemp ever point out that
              > these "creative" dreams occur in the Astral
              > Region and that KAL rules these Lower Planes!
              > Thus, "creativity" is either positive or negative,
              > but both are the same in that they are both
              > the ECK and are both under the control of
              > the KAL! Thus, Klemp is wrong about the
              > "creative" (positive) and "destructive" (negative)
              > sides. Both are the ECK in the Lower Planes
              > and both are of the KAL (Sugmad's representative)!
              >
              > Klemp speaks with a forked tongue and
              > from both sides of his mouth (a lower KAL
              > agent)! He likes to have it both ways doesn't
              > he! And, Why is Klemp, still, quoting from
              > Twitchell's 1971 Shariyat 2, which is the Astral
              > Plane "ECK/KAL" Holy Book?
              >
              > HK: "Duane was therefore one of my early
              > teachers in showing the power of stories.
              > They bring subjects to life. Today, they are
              > at the core of the ECK teachings, which the
              > ECK, Holy Spirit, see fit to have me pass
              > along to you."
              >
              > ME: Thus, Duane (Duta Kazi) was to Harry
              > as Kay-Dee (Kata-Daki) was to Paul. How
              > clever! And, we can see how Twitchell's tall
              > tales and plagiarisms are at the `core of
              > the ECK teachings' just as Klemp's mindless
              > "stories" are today!
              >
              > HK: "My brother also taught me to love
              > pretty things."
              >
              > ME: Isn't the ability to "love" an innate
              > trait based upon consciousness? Why
              > did Klemp need to be "taught" to love
              > and why only "pretty things?"
              >
              > HK: "One such instance that comes
              > to me is a coloring contest he entered
              > around age ten. The two prior years,
              > no prize. But he tried again. This was
              > a Christmas contest that the newspaper
              > featured each year, and with a cash
              > prize for the top three winners. Duane
              > chose bright colors and stayed within
              > the lines.
              >
              > So now, we also try to make ECK
              > publications attractive."
              >
              > ME: What does this last statement
              > have to do with a coloring contest
              > that Harry's oldest brother entered
              > (circa) 60 years ago?
              >
              > HK: "Soon after the contest had ended,
              > the mailman delivered a letter addressed
              > to Duane. It said he had won third place.
              > He could come anytime and pick up his
              > cash prize.
              >
              > The whole family was so very proud
              > of him. But, in a way, once it happened,
              > I was not that surprised. He never gave
              > up. Never. Once he set his mind to
              > reaching some goal, he used every
              > spark of creativity to reach it."
              >
              > ME: With Klemp, using "every spark of
              > creativity," even from the Astral, in order
              > to reach one's "goal," also, includes the
              > use of the negative. Look at how Klemp
              > "creatively" removed Darwin in order to
              > become the Mahanta. The "goal," versus
              > the Journey, is everything to Top Dog
              > Klemp!
              >
              > BTW- I, too, was one of the top winners
              > of a coloring contest sponsored by the
              > local newspaper. There's really not all
              > that much "creativity" involved when
              > coloring "within the lines." Klemp seems
              > to be grabbing-at-straws and exaggerating
              > when he puts so much emphasis on
              > "coloring within the lines." Does "within
              > the lines" represent the EK Dogma with
              > rules, guidelines, requirements and the
              > long wait for initiations. Thus, "Never Give
              > Up, Never" is the new motto that EKists
              > can use to "color" their lives.
              >
              > HK: "Walt Disney, American film producer,
              > said, `If you can dream it, you can do it.'
              >
              > ME: So, Why do ECKists need a physical
              > plane religion, a physical plane master,
              > and a membership card? Soul can imagine
              > It's own reality without the restrictions. IT
              > can go directly to the Source without the
              > need for a middleman! Does Soul need
              > a crutch (religion) when it can "dream?"
              >
              > HK: "Henry David Throeau, writer, adds
              > a qualifying footnote to that. `If one advances
              > confidently in the direction of his dreams,'
              > he said, `and endeavors to live the life
              > which he has imagined, he will meet with
              > a success unexpected in common hours.'
              >
              > ME: Actually, it's Klemp that's adding the
              > "qualifying footnote" to the Walt Disney
              > quote by quoting another well known person
              > of the past. Why doesn't Klemp quote the
              > ECK Masters? Were Walt Disney and Throeau
              > EK Masters? No! And neither is Klemp!
              >
              > BTW- Doesn't Klemp have anything
              > original (his own) to say? Where's
              > Klemp's "creativity?"
              >
              > HK: "About the time of the coloring contest,
              > Duane got caught up by the model-airplane
              > bug. He, at first, bought mainly plastic models,
              > but he carefully applied the supplied decals
              > onto the wings and body. Soon, however,
              > he wanted flying models. Blah, Blah, Blah...
              > It took a great deal of creativity and persistence
              > to do the entire project...
              >
              > Model planes led to his desire to fly the
              > real thing. So he began to save money
              > for lessons. That was money hard won."
              >
              > ME: I've shortened this some due to Klemp's
              > endless ramblings and wordiness. Klemp's
              > whole point is to praise his brother's tenacity
              > for hard work in order to accomplish his
              > dream (or obsessiveness) of flying and to
              > relate this to his own desires (obsessiveness)
              > of becoming the Mahanta, and for ECKists
              > not to give up on their dreams of becoming
              > ECK Masters too! Well, not quite! Klemp simply
              > gives chelas the goal of God-Consciousness.
              >
              > However, Klemp leaves out his relationship
              > with Darwin and how he, Klemp, positioned
              > himself at the ESC, and as a "writer," in order
              > to get noticed and make rank. Too bad, however,
              > that Klemp doesn't, also, mention that he
              > (as LEM) encouraged his brother, Duane, to
              > go to Mexico for Laetrile treatments when
              > Duane was diagnosed with Cancer. Duane
              > died, of Cancer, in the mid 1980s.
              >
              > http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html
              >
              > http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile
              >
              > HK: "Blah, Blah, Blah... The point is, my
              > brother followed his dreams. From him,
              > I learned to follow mine.
              >
              > So when I later found ECKankar, I `locked
              > on' to it, heart and Soul, like a fighter plane's
              > radar locks onto a target."
              >
              > ME: When "a fighter plane's radar locks
              > onto a target" it is to destroy and kill someone!
              >
              > WHY would the M/LEM use such a negative
              > analogy, unless, he's fallen from Grace as
              > did Darwin! HK should have stepped down
              > long ago, but he's had a death grip upon the
              > ROD, his Title, and the Power. It's like holding
              > onto an electrified pole and not being able
              > to let go until the connection is burned away
              > and is, thus, broken. Thus, HK's continuing
              > EMF problems and rapid aging are due to the
              > "Karma" related to his Not letting go of the
              > Rod of ECK Power, years ago, and Not for the
              > reasons Klemp claims!
              >
              > Klemp, at the beginning of this article,
              > quotes the Shariyat, "The CREATIVE self
              > in man is that through which the ECK forces
              > work, and the DESTRUCTIVE self in man is
              > that through which the KAL forces work."
              > Thus, Klemp has, unknowingly, shown
              > EKists that he is of the KAL with his comment
              > of "I locked onto it (the Mahanta position)
              > like a fighter plane's radar locks onto a target."
              > Then, Klemp shot Darwin down with the aid
              > of his wingman Peter! How else could Klemp
              > become the Mahanta so quickly and reach
              > his obsessive goal of being high above others
              > (whom in normal society would be above him).
              >
              > HK: "Let your own goal be God Consciousness.
              > Never give up. Never!"
              >
              > ME: Well, we learned a lot about Duane,
              > before Klemp FINALLY makes his point!
              > But, we haven't learned too much about
              > old Harold, except, that he tends to trip
              > himself up more often since no one (Joan
              > included), or those at the ESC are, still,
              > not permitted to edit the Mahanta! LOL!
              >
              > That's why HK has to keep it simple, tell
              > other peoples' stories, and quote famous
              > people. It, also, seems that Klemp dreamed
              > of being important. That's why it wasn't
              > enough for Klemp to be the EK Master and
              > the big fish in the small pond of ECKankar.
              > And, that's why Klemp paid to be listed in
              > the "International Who's Who of Intellectuals,
              > ninth edition."
              >
              > However, if the goal is "God Consciousness"
              > an EKist, or anyone, doesn't need to be in,
              > or remain, in ECKankar! They can dream
              > their own reality and look to Walt Disney,
              > Throeau, or Mark Twain, etc. for their words
              > of wisdom instead of Klemp!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > p.s. I think Klemp stole (and shortened)
              > his quote "Never Give Up, Never" from
              > the movie "Galaxy Quest!" The term,
              > "Never Give Up, Never Surrender" is
              > a key quote in this very funny movie.
              > Klemp paraphrased this, but decided
              > not to add the "Surrender" because,
              > then, people would absolutely see
              > where he stole it.
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Non Eckster and All, Apparently Klemp s delusion includes coloring his past (tying up loose ends) via 20/20 hindsight. Thus, he comes across as having a
              Message 6 of 6 , May 23, 2009
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                Hello Non Eckster and All,
                Apparently Klemp's delusion includes
                coloring his past (tying up loose ends)
                via 20/20 hindsight. Thus, he comes
                across as having a "special" childhood,
                having a higher consciousness than those
                around him, and being more sensitive.
                After all, HK was being prepared "spiritually,"
                early on, by beings and forces for who
                and what he is now. However, the current
                leader of __________ could say the same!

                But, who and what would Harold be
                today if Darwin had known that HK
                jumped off a bridge, did a strip tease,
                was arrested, and was locked up in
                a mental institution for some three
                weeks? I know that HK wouldn't have
                been named the 973rd LEM by DG.
                Klemp probably would have just been
                an 7th initiate working at the ESC.
                Peter or Don would have been the
                LEM and Darwin might have still been
                the Mahanta up until his recent death.
                Klemp probably would have gotten
                his 8th, later, by Peter or Don or whomever.

                Anyway, here's a quote on page 57
                from HK's 1980 "The Wind of Change."
                I thought about this while watching
                a program about schizophrenia. One
                person, in the three case studies, was
                walking down the street and thought
                that the birds were laughing at him
                and that the trees were waving to him.
                He would hear voices and think that
                it was God speaking to him.

                HK: "Through fitful observation, I
                speculated on the rules of their sport.
                A cow earned one point for merely
                dislodging the milker and sending it
                into the alley. The two-point kicker
                could deliver both milker and milk
                belt into the alley. A three-star cow
                boasted a kick that deposited the
                milker, milk belt, and me, plus any
                stray cat, into the aisle with a single
                smooth, blindingly-fast motion.

                The latter performance drew a standing
                ovation from the entire herd. All other
                cows arose and chorused out the most
                deafening roar of approving moos. The
                victory of beast over man.

                The champion also netted extra silage
                and grist that her obliging neighbors
                pushed along in the trough with their
                noses from their own portions."

                Klemp exaggerates and twists facts
                as Twitchell did. But, it seems that this
                was an attempt to recount a past event
                in a "Mark Twain" like manner. Except,
                with Twain, we know that, his, was a
                comical or humorous perspective of
                an everyday event (a tall tale).

                With Klemp, we are expected to see
                his tall tale from a different perspective.
                We are expected to see this as an early
                "spiritual experience" leading to "higher
                spiritual truths and as a way of life known
                as ECKankar." [back cover] It's amazing
                that people still buy into this and that
                Klemp (the MAHANTA) is still talking about
                his part-time farm life and cows!

                Prometheus


                Non Eckster wrote:
                As far as Klemp's VANITY and other H I's,
                here is a quote from Thoreau: "How vain
                it is to sit down to write when you have
                not stood up to live." LOL

                Non Eckster ; )

                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Klemp first told of these 'kicking cows'
                > in his 1980 book "The Wind of Change."
                > At this time Klemp was 26 (versus 13
                > when Duane, supposedly, had his kicking
                > cow experiences). HK had just been
                > discharged from the Air Force, late 1968,
                > and went back to the farm to work during
                > the winter of 1968-1969.
                >
                > Harry finally got to experience the 'kickers'
                > instead of Duane, or the others who had
                > to milk the cows in place of Harry for all
                > those years. Harold missed out on those
                > character building experiences since he
                > was living at a private, all boys, Lutheran
                > school that his whole family sacrificed to
                > pay for. Thus, Harold mostly stayed away
                > from the farm during Junior high, High
                > school, and while in the Seminary for two
                > years. Then, Harry went into the Air Force
                > for four years!
                >
                > In his "Windy" book, Harry states that he returns
                > to the farm and has to do chores like milking
                > cows. HK refers to these cows (Animal Angels?)
                > as:
                >
                > "high-kicking; fire-breathing; nasty; lightning-fast;
                > renegades; fire-spitting; and wild." [pages 54-57]
                >
                > However, now, in the June 2009 Mystic World
                > article Klemp doesn't use any of these descriptions
                > as he recounts the story about the cows.
                >
                > By '68-'69 Klemp claims to have had "creative"
                > dreams, spiritual insights and meetings with
                > EK Masters, etc. But still, HK doesn't have enough
                > common sense, or creativity to shackle the legs
                > of these Demon like High-Kicking Cows! LOL!
                >
                > BUT, even today, Klemp doesn't suggest that
                > he Should Have SHACKLED the hind legs of
                > these "kickers." HK's, still, just as clueless about
                > using this safety measure!
                >
                > Anyway, the first story with Duane, and the cows,
                > takes place in 1955, but is recounted in 2009.
                >
                > "The Wind of Change" story, with Harry and
                > the cows, takes place in 1968-1969 and is
                > recounted in 1980!
                >
                > Interesting, that it takes Klemp about 13 years
                > to tell the one story with himself and the cows,
                > and 54 years to, just now, tell the other story
                > with Duane and the cows! What happened with
                > mentioning either of these stories in his 2000
                > "Autobiography of a Modern Prophet?"
                >
                > If it wasn't for 20/20 hindsight Klemp wouldn't
                > have any stories to retell and "change" around to
                > make himself look "special!" It just proves how
                > delusional one has to be to actually think that
                > Klemp had any more of a "spiritual" childhood
                > than anyone else did! Then again, How many
                > people can claim to be the Mahanta/God (!)
                >
                > Well, on second thought, there are a lot of
                > people out there (or locked up) that claim to
                > be God, and some (in the past and today) have/
                > had a lot of followers! Does might (numbers)
                > still make (it) right? I don't see it, but for some
                > reason (brain-washing?) EKists think they're just
                > as special and even more so! They're so vain!

                Prometheus


                Klemp Overlooks Making "Animal/Angel/Soul" Comments!

                > I thought I'd add a few more thoughts
                > and comments below. This is a perspective
                > of Klemp that EKists are afraid to share
                > least they get black listed on initiations.
                > Many ECKists dare not (via fear) even allow
                > themselves to look at these comments with
                > insights/perspectives. They can't deal with
                > the Truth standing behind the curtain! After
                > all, what would they replace ECKankar with...
                > a new hobby? EK H.I.'s can't believe in Self
                > and that's why they need to listen to someone
                > they believe to be greater like PT's and HK's
                > words. Yet, why does HK quote others so
                > often?
                >
                > Are ECKists allowed to think? Sometimes,
                > but Not out-loud! When chelas do "think"
                > out-loud it has to be EK-Speak only. They
                > have to repeat the proper words and sound
                > like an EK brochure. This is why "training" is
                > needed. Too Critical of thinking is, always,
                > forbidden in ECKankar. There are limitations
                > set and only one outcome because there is,
                > basically, one way in looking at Klemp's "truth."
                > Some wiggle room is given in classes (Satsang)
                > and training, but caution needs to be given
                > because H.I.s are listening closely (some are
                > spies for the RESA and this affects initiations).
                > Every word/message spoken by Klemp (GOD
                > on earth) must be seen as having a "positive"
                > and "higher" content, thus, it can be taken out
                > of context and still be the highest (according
                > to the more delusional EKists). However, if
                > one's analysis (and second guessing) of HK's
                > choice of words and comments cannot fit
                > neatly within the EK Guidelines, Rules and
                > Dogma then it is rejected... and so is the chela.
                >
                > FYI:
                > For the sake of space I left out some
                > of the praise Klemp was giving his
                > late brother Duane. However, now,
                > I'd like to comment on it.
                >
                > HK: "One winter, however, at age sixteen,
                > he got a lucky break. It was an unlucky
                > break for a neighbor, whose arm was
                > broken by a kick from a touchy cow."
                >
                > ME: Was this "luck" good Karma for
                > Duane and bad karma for the neighbor?
                > Klemp overlooks an opportunity to make
                > a comment to clarify this and to point out
                > the details and effects of the Law of Karma.
                >
                > BTW- Were these touchy cows "Animal
                > Angels" or "Animal Devils?" They sound
                > like Devils! Maybe Allen & Linda can write
                > another book to cover these "Animal Devils."
                > After all, if there is such a thing as "Animal
                > Angels" then the opposite must also be
                > true... that there are "Animal Devils!"
                >
                > HK: "Mornings and nights, Duane drove to
                > Gerhard's place to milk his herd, which had
                > nearly all 'kickers,' cows routinely beaten
                > to make them behave."
                >
                > *ME: It's interesting that Klemp states that
                > these are "Touchy Cows" and that's WHY
                > they are "Kickers," but now it seems Klemp
                > is making it seem that the cows kick because
                > they are beaten. Later, HK states that the
                > beatings didn't prevent them from kicking.
                > IMO the farmers thought they were training
                > these cows not to kick through physical discipline
                > (a spanking) as they might a child... like Harry's
                > father did to him? BTW- When Klemp followed
                > his cousin to that private Lutheran (all boys)
                > school his brother Duane was 15. This means
                > that Duane had to do more chores on the farm
                > Monday-Friday (and maybe weekends too)
                > since little Harry was able to side-step his family
                > responsibilities and his personal relationships
                > with family members. Thus, Klemp's arrested
                > social development!
                >
                > ME: Did Duane, also, beat the cows to make
                > them "behave" or didn't he? HK leaves this
                > info out of the story. Why doesn't Klemp
                > take this opportunity to say that "Animals
                > Are Soul Too!" This still applies to these
                > kicking, devilish, cows... right? Anyway,
                > it seems that the beatings were in retaliation
                > for the kickings! DO COWS HAVE KARMA
                > TOO?
                >
                > HK: "Duane was no pilgrim when it came
                > to milking kickers. Our herd was full of them.
                > Dad was of the same school as was Gerhard:
                > beat them, and they will obey. But the cows
                > never did."
                >
                > ME: So, is old Harry still harboring some ill
                > will toward his father? It sounds like it to me,
                > HK used a quote Jesus had, supposedly, made
                > to justify in not going to his father's funeral
                > around 10/19/1971 (Let the dead bury the dead).
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > p.s. Another thing, didn't anyone ever figure
                > out to shackle the leg of a kicking cow when
                > it's being milked?
                >
                >
                > "The Mystic World" JUNE 2009 - Front Page Article
                >
                > The Mystic World of ECKankar - June 2009
                >
                > Klemp's front page article:
                >
                > "Like My Brother Duane"
                >
                > HK: "Duane was my big brother. He was
                > also my North Star, a guiding light, with
                > no concern whether I would let his light
                > help me find my own light, and my own
                > way.
                >
                > ME: It seems that as Klemp gets older
                > (and sees his mortality), he's 67, he
                > tends to dwell in the past more often.
                >
                > Here, Harry's reminiscing and is making
                > an attempt to show that he not only had
                > a loving brother who was his first "teacher,"
                > but that he, also, loved and appreciated
                > his brother.
                >
                > I've criticized Harry for being unloving
                > and disrespectful of people in his life
                > (especially with Darwin), thus, HK's now
                > trying to show us that he's not all that
                > insensitive after all. Except, it looks like
                > HK's trying to turn his dead, and oldest,
                > brother into an EK Master (Duta Kazi?),
                > or a Saint!
                >
                > But, don't most brothers and sisters let
                > their siblings find their own way and their
                > own light! Parents and teachers attempt
                > to pass on what they've learned (their own
                > discovery of "light," i.e. their consciousness).
                > They show these children how they too can
                > fit into society and how to be successful.
                > These children will, thus, have the help they
                > need and be inspired to find their own`light,'
                > but that's the job of parents and teachers!
                >
                > HK: "A couple of years older than me,
                > he served as my bellwether."
                >
                > ME: But wasn't Gross Klemp's "spiritual"
                > bellwether for ten years?
                >
                > Klemp's choice of words are both archaic
                > and Freudian. 'Bellwether' is also defined
                > as a lead sheep wearing a bell. Harry is the
                > `bellwether' for EKists leading these mindless
                > Souls to the holding pens and to the slaughterhouse
                > of the KAL. He's a Judas sheep/goat!
                >
                > HK: "At age eight, he introduced me, a six-
                > year-old, to after-school radio programs,
                > which, until then, were only so much noise
                > to me. He explained the story lines. He told
                > the names of characters and their roles. The
                > hero and his friends were on every week,
                > their voices clear and determined, and they
                > were more than ready, too, to see justice
                > served to all villains."
                >
                > ME: Why doesn't Klemp mention the names
                > of these programs and characters if they made
                > such an impression upon him? Hmmmmmm.
                >
                > HK: "So why mention Duane? Simply because
                > his expressions of creativity fueled mine too."
                >
                > ME: Actually, Klemp just copies the behaviour
                > and ideas of others. Later, (at 13), Klemp's
                > cousin decides to go to a private Lutheran
                > school and Harry decides to follow him. Then,
                > even later, after Duane becomes a pilot Harry
                > decides to take flying lessons. Klemp, however,
                > doesn't mention much about himself and his
                > interests and hobbies. But, we can see that
                > HK's not very original and "creative," (he played-
                > the-game of follow-the-leader). Nor, did HK
                > make good choices when left to his own wiles.
                > That bridge jump and strip-tease is proof of
                > that! Then, after being locked-up in a mental
                > institution HK said that he 'played-the-game'
                > with the doctor in order to be released early.
                >
                > HK: "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book Two,
                > says of creativity: `The creative self in man
                > is that through which the ECK forces work,
                > and the destructive self in man is that through
                > which Kal forces work.'
                >
                > ME: So, `the creative self in man' that gave
                > us the ATOMIC BOMB is "the ECK" while
                > `the destructive self in man' is the `Kal.'
                >
                > *Besides, does Klemp ever point out that
                > these "creative" dreams occur in the Astral
                > Region and that KAL rules these Lower Planes!
                > Thus, "creativity" is either positive or negative,
                > but both are the same in that they are both
                > the ECK and are both under the control of
                > the KAL! Thus, Klemp is wrong about the
                > "creative" (positive) and "destructive" (negative)
                > sides. Both are the ECK in the Lower Planes
                > and both are of the KAL (Sugmad's representative)!
                >
                > Klemp speaks with a forked tongue and
                > from both sides of his mouth (a lower KAL
                > agent)! He likes to have it both ways doesn't
                > he! And, Why is Klemp, still, quoting from
                > Twitchell's 1971 Shariyat 2, which is the Astral
                > Plane "ECK/KAL" Holy Book?
                >
                > HK: "Duane was therefore one of my early
                > teachers in showing the power of stories.
                > They bring subjects to life. Today, they are
                > at the core of the ECK teachings, which the
                > ECK, Holy Spirit, see fit to have me pass
                > along to you."
                >
                > ME: Thus, Duane (Duta Kazi) was to Harry
                > as Kay-Dee (Kata-Daki) was to Paul. How
                > clever! And, we can see how Twitchell's tall
                > tales and plagiarisms are at the `core of
                > the ECK teachings' just as Klemp's mindless
                > "stories" are today!
                >
                > HK: "My brother also taught me to love
                > pretty things."
                >
                > ME: Isn't the ability to "love" an innate
                > trait based upon consciousness? Why
                > did Klemp need to be "taught" to love
                > and why only "pretty things?"
                >
                > HK: "One such instance that comes
                > to me is a coloring contest he entered
                > around age ten. The two prior years,
                > no prize. But he tried again. This was
                > a Christmas contest that the newspaper
                > featured each year, and with a cash
                > prize for the top three winners. Duane
                > chose bright colors and stayed within
                > the lines.
                >
                > So now, we also try to make ECK
                > publications attractive."
                >
                > ME: What does this last statement
                > have to do with a coloring contest
                > that Harry's oldest brother entered
                > (circa) 60 years ago?
                >
                > HK: "Soon after the contest had ended,
                > the mailman delivered a letter addressed
                > to Duane. It said he had won third place.
                > He could come anytime and pick up his
                > cash prize.
                >
                > The whole family was so very proud
                > of him. But, in a way, once it happened,
                > I was not that surprised. He never gave
                > up. Never. Once he set his mind to
                > reaching some goal, he used every
                > spark of creativity to reach it."
                >
                > ME: With Klemp, using "every spark of
                > creativity," even from the Astral, in order
                > to reach one's "goal," also, includes the
                > use of the negative. Look at how Klemp
                > "creatively" removed Darwin in order to
                > become the Mahanta. The "goal," versus
                > the Journey, is everything to Top Dog
                > Klemp!
                >
                > BTW- I, too, was one of the top winners
                > of a coloring contest sponsored by the
                > local newspaper. There's really not all
                > that much "creativity" involved when
                > coloring "within the lines." Klemp seems
                > to be grabbing-at-straws and exaggerating
                > when he puts so much emphasis on
                > "coloring within the lines." Does "within
                > the lines" represent the EK Dogma with
                > rules, guidelines, requirements and the
                > long wait for initiations. Thus, "Never Give
                > Up, Never" is the new motto that EKists
                > can use to "color" their lives.
                >
                > HK: "Walt Disney, American film producer,
                > said, `If you can dream it, you can do it.'
                >
                > ME: So, Why do ECKists need a physical
                > plane religion, a physical plane master,
                > and a membership card? Soul can imagine
                > It's own reality without the restrictions. IT
                > can go directly to the Source without the
                > need for a middleman! Does Soul need
                > a crutch (religion) when it can "dream?"
                >
                > HK: "Henry David Throeau, writer, adds
                > a qualifying footnote to that. `If one advances
                > confidently in the direction of his dreams,'
                > he said, `and endeavors to live the life
                > which he has imagined, he will meet with
                > a success unexpected in common hours.'
                >
                > ME: Actually, it's Klemp that's adding the
                > "qualifying footnote" to the Walt Disney
                > quote by quoting another well known person
                > of the past. Why doesn't Klemp quote the
                > ECK Masters? Were Walt Disney and Throeau
                > EK Masters? No! And neither is Klemp!
                >
                > BTW- Doesn't Klemp have anything
                > original (his own) to say? Where's
                > Klemp's "creativity?"
                >
                > HK: "About the time of the coloring contest,
                > Duane got caught up by the model-airplane
                > bug. He, at first, bought mainly plastic models,
                > but he carefully applied the supplied decals
                > onto the wings and body. Soon, however,
                > he wanted flying models. Blah, Blah, Blah...
                > It took a great deal of creativity and persistence
                > to do the entire project...
                >
                > Model planes led to his desire to fly the
                > real thing. So he began to save money
                > for lessons. That was money hard won."
                >
                > ME: I've shortened this some due to Klemp's
                > endless ramblings and wordiness. Klemp's
                > whole point is to praise his brother's tenacity
                > for hard work in order to accomplish his
                > dream (or obsessiveness) of flying and to
                > relate this to his own desires (obsessiveness)
                > of becoming the Mahanta, and for ECKists
                > not to give up on their dreams of becoming
                > ECK Masters too! Well, not quite! Klemp simply
                > gives chelas the goal of God-Consciousness.
                >
                > However, Klemp leaves out his relationship
                > with Darwin and how he, Klemp, positioned
                > himself at the ESC, and as a "writer," in order
                > to get noticed and make rank. Too bad, however,
                > that Klemp doesn't, also, mention that he
                > (as LEM) encouraged his brother, Duane, to
                > go to Mexico for Laetrile treatments when
                > Duane was diagnosed with Cancer. Duane
                > died, of Cancer, in the mid 1980s.
                >
                > http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/laetrile.html
                >
                > http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/laetrile
                >
                > HK: "Blah, Blah, Blah... The point is, my
                > brother followed his dreams. From him,
                > I learned to follow mine.
                >
                > So when I later found ECKankar, I `locked
                > on' to it, heart and Soul, like a fighter plane's
                > radar locks onto a target."
                >
                > ME: When "a fighter plane's radar locks
                > onto a target" it is to destroy and kill someone!
                >
                > WHY would the M/LEM use such a negative
                > analogy, unless, he's fallen from Grace as
                > did Darwin! HK should have stepped down
                > long ago, but he's had a death grip upon the
                > ROD, his Title, and the Power. It's like holding
                > onto an electrified pole and not being able
                > to let go until the connection is burned away
                > and is, thus, broken. Thus, HK's continuing
                > EMF problems and rapid aging are due to the
                > "Karma" related to his Not letting go of the
                > Rod of ECK Power, years ago, and Not for the
                > reasons Klemp claims!
                >
                > Klemp, at the beginning of this article,
                > quotes the Shariyat, "The CREATIVE self
                > in man is that through which the ECK forces
                > work, and the DESTRUCTIVE self in man is
                > that through which the KAL forces work."
                > Thus, Klemp has, unknowingly, shown
                > EKists that he is of the KAL with his comment
                > of "I locked onto it (the Mahanta position)
                > like a fighter plane's radar locks onto a target."
                > Then, Klemp shot Darwin down with the aid
                > of his wingman Peter! How else could Klemp
                > become the Mahanta so quickly and reach
                > his obsessive goal of being high above others
                > (whom in normal society would be above him).
                >
                > HK: "Let your own goal be God Consciousness.
                > Never give up. Never!"
                >
                > ME: Well, we learned a lot about Duane,
                > before Klemp FINALLY makes his point!
                > But, we haven't learned too much about
                > old Harold, except, that he tends to trip
                > himself up more often since no one (Joan
                > included), or those at the ESC are, still,
                > not permitted to edit the Mahanta! LOL!
                >
                > That's why HK has to keep it simple, tell
                > other peoples' stories, and quote famous
                > people. It, also, seems that Klemp dreamed
                > of being important. That's why it wasn't
                > enough for Klemp to be the EK Master and
                > the big fish in the small pond of ECKankar.
                > And, that's why Klemp paid to be listed in
                > the "International Who's Who of Intellectuals,
                > ninth edition."
                >
                > However, if the goal is "God Consciousness"
                > an EKist, or anyone, doesn't need to be in,
                > or remain, in ECKankar! They can dream
                > their own reality and look to Walt Disney,
                > Throeau, or Mark Twain, etc. for their words
                > of wisdom instead of Klemp!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > p.s. I think Klemp stole (and shortened)
                > his quote "Never Give Up, Never" from
                > the movie "Galaxy Quest!" The term,
                > "Never Give Up, Never Surrender" is
                > a key quote in this very funny movie.
                > Klemp paraphrased this, but decided
                > not to add the "Surrender" because,
                > then, people would absolutely see
                > where he stole it.
                >
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