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Re: These Approved EK "Stories" Are Misinterpreted!

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  • Non ekster
    Prometheus, I would have to agree with you about the As If Fake Love that eckists claim to feel. It is always conditional. Often, I have had the same
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 22, 2009
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      Prometheus,

      I would have to agree with you about the "As If" Fake Love that eckists claim to feel. It is always conditional. Often, I have had the same profound sense of Beingness and Contentment that was Beauty personified, kind of like when you look into the eyes of a wild tiger, or glimpse the serene expanse of the sky beyond the horizon. It is difficult to put into words. You certainly don't need to say I felt it through my Kult Leader, Klemp.

      I liked what you said:

      "After leaving ECKankar, and removing
      > myself from the muck and mire of the
      > limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
      > had a Divine experience, but it lasted
      > for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
      > For a day and a half I experience total
      > contentment! The experience gave a
      > gentle and expanded clarity that was
      > multifaceted and layered with insights
      > into and understanding. There was a
      > sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
      > and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
      > Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
      > dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
      > it possible to experience this purity of
      > Truth and of the REAL. "

      In addition, my experience (vs. eksperience) was/is usually Non theistic, as it is beyond words and conceptions. Even the word Beauty does not have the same meaning, because it is All Inclusive. I could never truly experience this in eckankar org. Eckankar is extremely divisive and smothering.

      The kind of experience you describe (The experience gave a
      > gentle and expanded clarity that was
      > multifaceted and layered with insights
      > into and understanding.) is what led me AWAY from eckankar, not toward it.

      Non Eckster ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > The following excerpt tells volumes
      > about the limiting and restricted
      > mindset that EKists accept as part
      > of their religious dogma. It seems
      > that Eckists can only "experience"
      > a few seconds of "God's love."
      >
      > Suzanne (the MC) said:
      > 'My wish [to experience Divine Love] was
      > [finally] granted [by the Mahanta], and for
      > a brief moment I was allowed to experience
      > God's love directly. It was all that I had hoped,
      > and I realized that I deserve more than just
      > a toad [Klemp]!' "She, then, urged the audience
      > to ask themselves, 'What do I REALLY want?"'
      >
      > However, was this really a "direct"
      > experience since it was via the M/
      > LEM? And, why was this "love" coming
      > from "God" versus SUGMAD? Okay,
      > let's say that this "God" and Sugmad
      > are one and the same. Why does
      > anyone, especially spiritually advanced
      > Eckists (lol), ALWAYS need Klemp's
      > intervention? How does Co-dependency
      > equate to being Spiritually Free or
      > Spiritually Advanced and with Self-
      > Mastery?
      >
      > BTW- Was Suzanne's "brief moment"
      > of experiencing "Divine Love" the same
      > as God-Realization? It's a wonder she
      > didn't feel compelled to jump off a
      > bridge, etc. like Klemp!
      >
      > After leaving ECKankar, and removing
      > myself from the muck and mire of the
      > limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
      > had a Divine experience, but it lasted
      > for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
      > For a day and a half I experience total
      > contentment! The experience gave a
      > gentle and expanded clarity that was
      > multifaceted and layered with insights
      > into and understanding. There was a
      > sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
      > and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
      > Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
      > dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
      > it possible to experience this purity of
      > Truth and of the REAL.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > Here's more from the seminar which
      > includes two stories from the MC.
      >
      > As mentioned before, these detailed
      > notes were taken by an ECKist who
      > lives in the area, and who attended
      > the entire seminar. Some of her
      > comments are based upon simple
      > observations that only attendees
      > could experience.
      >
      > "The evening session for the 2009
      > Eck Springtime Seminar was held
      > in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
      > Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
      > packed. One ESC official came on
      > stage, before the session began,
      > to urge everyone to move toward
      > the center to free up seats near the
      > aisles."
      >
      > [ME]: In my early years that would
      > always irk me and I would ignore
      > the orders and not move. I came
      > early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
      > an unoccupied reserved one). I would
      > have a direct view of the speakers.
      > Why should irresponsible late comers
      > get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
      > sit in the back of the room, or stand
      > along the back wall, (nowadays they
      > can be directed to the overflow room)!
      > What it comes down to is that everyone
      > should be FREE to sit where they want.
      > What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
      > to Freedom of Choice? Could this be
      > another hint (by the EK) and "Golden-
      > Tongued Wisdom" that ECKists have
      > ignored for years?
      >
      > "Although the number of attendees was
      > SMALL, compared with attendees at the
      > 2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
      > official did mention that there were MORE
      > people in attendance at the Saturday
      > evening session than they had anticipated."
      >
      > [ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
      > Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
      > "anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
      > the ESC count the number of pre-registered
      > people, and "know" how many locals would
      > come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
      > thinking there's more to it than this. The
      > ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
      > (karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
      > small and the Convention Center was too
      > big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
      > have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
      > to find the venue that was "just right!"
      >
      > "The MC for the evening was Suzanne
      > Percoskie. Suzanne began by telling
      > a story where she was asked, by the
      > Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY want?'
      >
      > She replied, 'I want to experience love.'
      > Later, she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking
      > that the toad represented a 'prince' for her.
      > Of course, nothing happened.
      >
      > The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
      > 'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
      > experience Divine Love.'
      >
      > Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
      > she was allowed to experience God's love
      > directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
      > she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
      > She urged the audience to ask themselves,
      > 'What do I REALLY want?'"
      >
      > [ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
      > Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
      > Devil. The Devil took different forms and one
      > was that of a beautiful woman. He had to be
      > very precise with his wishes or the Devil would
      > trick him and twist the positive wishes into
      > negative results. Is Klemp a Genie, or a Devil?
      > And, is Suzanne that delusional that she would
      > kiss a toad (for real) or was this just a dream?
      > It's unclear!
      >
      > Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
      > that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
      > representing earthly limitations, initiations,
      > and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
      > represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
      > she seeks!
      >
      > "A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
      > version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
      > guitar players sang."
      >
      > [ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
      > In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
      > "Amazing Grace!"
      >
      > "Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
      > story. She said that her car key snapped into
      > two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND she
      > had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
      > call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
      > which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
      > She went into a nearby shop, where she asked
      > if they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong
      > household glue that is commonly used in the
      > U.S. to fix things. They didn't have any, and the
      > clerk told her that it wouldn't work on a car key,
      > she tried it anyway. Suzanne was, then, advised
      > to call a locksmith, which she did through AAA
      > (automotive club). In 15 minutes, she had a new
      > key made and was able to drive home.
      >
      > She noticed that this incident had highlighted
      > a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
      > not able to get home. She realized that she had
      > the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
      > your back,' she said."
      >
      > [ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!
      >
      > This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
      > represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
      > elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
      > The "clerk" was Soul (via Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
      > pointing out the errors of her thinking (beliefs) and
      > AAA represented the Holy Spirit (unlocking Truth),
      > as well as, Soul's (her) relationship with IT. This
      > Waking Dream (and Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
      > points out that Suzanne refused, at first, to listen
      > to Soul (the clerk) concerning the "Crazy Glue"
      > (Klemp). And, there is No Need for a middleman
      > Mahanta (Crazy Glue) since HK won't/can't "Fix"
      > all that he claims, or that people think he can "fix."
      > Her "fear of being stranded and not making it home"
      > is telling her that ECKankar will leave her "stranded"
      > in the lower worlds and Will Not help her (Soul),
      > from this point on, to return to the Ocean of Love
      > and Mercy.
      >
      > [End of Part 2]
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Non ekster and All, I agree that many EKists mistake conditional love for unconditional love. In the one story (below) that the MC, Suzanne, told she was
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 23, 2009
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        Hello Non ekster and All,
        I agree that many EKists mistake conditional
        love for unconditional love. In the one story
        (below) that the MC, Suzanne, told she was
        "wishing to experience Divine Love." However,
        often EKists don't realize Their own Divinity
        as Soul. Isn't it true that Soul is Divine and
        IS One with the Holy Spirit!

        Therefore, all one has to do is to love their
        own True Self and Beingness as Soul (and to
        identify with Soul) in order to experience
        "Divine Love."

        One Does Not need to have a "wish" granted
        by some middleman mahanta. So, if EKists really
        did believe in the Divine aspects of Soul they
        wouldn't be giving or listening to talks based
        upon such primitive and limiting concepts in
        consciousness.

        After all, the concept that "we ARE Soul" versus
        "we HAVE a Soul" is rather unique. Also, unique,
        is that Soul is "One" with the Holy Spirit. But,
        EKists are restricted (by Klemp) as to how far
        they are permitted to take these concepts. Instead,
        they are (mis)directed away from their own unique
        Divinity and are conditioned to believe in a "Master"
        other than Soul. EKists are, also, instructed to
        follow a more generic and generalized "group"
        and/or "circle" form of consciousness. This is
        a KAL trap!

        Prometheus


        Non ekster wrote:

        Prometheus,

        I would have to agree with you about the "As If"
        Fake Love that eckists claim to feel. It is always
        conditional. Often, I have had the same profound
        sense of Beingness and Contentment that was Beauty
        personified, kind of like when you look into the eyes
        of a wild tiger, or glimpse the serene expanse of
        the sky beyond the horizon. It is difficult to put into
        words. You certainly don't need to say I felt it through
        my Kult Leader, Klemp.

        I liked what you said:

        > "After leaving ECKankar, and removing
        > myself from the muck and mire of the
        > limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
        > had a Divine experience, but it lasted
        > for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
        > For a day and a half I experience total
        > contentment! The experience gave a
        > gentle and expanded clarity that was
        > multifaceted and layered with insights
        > and understanding. There was a sense
        > of Oneness with the Holy Spirit and a
        > Unity and Harmony with all things.
        > Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
        > dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
        > it possible to experience this purity of
        > Truth and of the REAL. "

        In addition, my experience (vs. eksperience)
        was/is usually Non theistic, as it is beyond
        words and conceptions. Even the word Beauty
        does not have the same meaning, because
        it is All Inclusive. I could never truly experience
        this in eckankar org. Eckankar is extremely
        divisive and smothering.

        The kind of experience you describe
        (The experience gave a gentle and expanded
        clarity that was multifaceted and layered with
        insights and understanding) is what led me
        AWAY from eckankar, not toward it.

        Non Eckster ; )

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > The following excerpt tells volumes
        > about the limiting and restricted
        > mindset that EKists accept as part
        > of their religious dogma. It seems
        > that Eckists can only "experience"
        > a few seconds of "God's love."
        >
        > Suzanne (the MC) said:
        > 'My wish [to experience Divine Love] was
        > [finally] granted [by the Mahanta], and for
        > a brief moment I was allowed to experience
        > God's love directly. It was all that I had hoped,
        > and I realized that I deserve more than just
        > a toad [Klemp]!' "She, then, urged the audience
        > to ask themselves, 'What do I REALLY want?"'
        >
        > However, was this really a "direct"
        > experience since it was via the M/
        > LEM? And, why was this "love" coming
        > from "God" versus SUGMAD? Okay,
        > let's say that this "God" and Sugmad
        > are one and the same. Why does
        > anyone, especially spiritually advanced
        > Eckists (lol), ALWAYS need Klemp's
        > intervention? How does Co-dependency
        > equate to being Spiritually Free or
        > Spiritually Advanced and with Self-
        > Mastery?
        >
        > BTW- Was Suzanne's "brief moment"
        > of experiencing "Divine Love" the same
        > as God-Realization? It's a wonder she
        > didn't feel compelled to jump off a
        > bridge, etc. like Klemp!
        >
        > After leaving ECKankar, and removing
        > myself from the muck and mire of the
        > limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
        > had a Divine experience, but it lasted
        > for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
        > For a day and a half I experience total
        > contentment! The experience gave a
        > gentle and expanded clarity that was
        > multifaceted and layered with insights
        > into and understanding. There was a
        > sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
        > and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
        > Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
        > dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
        > it possible to experience this purity of
        > Truth and of the REAL.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > Here's more from the seminar which
        > includes two stories from the MC.
        >
        > As mentioned before, these detailed
        > notes were taken by an ECKist who
        > lives in the area, and who attended
        > the entire seminar. Some of her
        > comments are based upon simple
        > observations that only attendees
        > could experience.
        >
        > "The evening session for the 2009
        > Eck Springtime Seminar was held
        > in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
        > Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
        > packed. One ESC official came on
        > stage, before the session began,
        > to urge everyone to move toward
        > the center to free up seats near the
        > aisles."
        >
        > [ME]: In my early years that would
        > always irk me and I would ignore
        > the orders and not move. I came
        > early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
        > an unoccupied reserved one). I would
        > have a direct view of the speakers.
        > Why should irresponsible late comers
        > get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
        > sit in the back of the room, or stand
        > along the back wall, (nowadays they
        > can be directed to the overflow room)!
        > What it comes down to is that everyone
        > should be FREE to sit where they want.
        > What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
        > to Freedom of Choice? Could this be
        > another hint (by the EK) and "Golden-
        > Tongued Wisdom" that ECKists have
        > ignored for years?
        >
        > "Although the number of attendees was
        > SMALL, compared with attendees at the
        > 2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
        > official did mention that there were MORE
        > people in attendance at the Saturday
        > evening session than they had anticipated."
        >
        > [ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
        > Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
        > "anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
        > the ESC count the number of pre-registered
        > people, and "know" how many locals would
        > come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
        > thinking there's more to it than this. The
        > ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
        > (karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
        > small and the Convention Center was too
        > big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
        > have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
        > to find the venue that was "just right!"
        >
        > "The MC for the evening was Suzanne
        > Percoskie. Suzanne began by telling
        > a story where she was asked, by the
        > Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY want?'
        >
        > She replied, 'I want to experience love.'
        > Later, she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking
        > that the toad represented a 'prince' for her.
        > Of course, nothing happened.
        >
        > The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
        > 'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
        > experience Divine Love.'
        >
        > Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
        > she was allowed to experience God's love
        > directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
        > she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
        > She urged the audience to ask themselves,
        > 'What do I REALLY want?'"
        >
        > [ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
        > Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
        > Devil. The Devil took different forms and one
        > was that of a beautiful woman. He had to be
        > very precise with his wishes or the Devil would
        > trick him and twist the positive wishes into
        > negative results. Is Klemp a Genie, or a Devil?
        > And, is Suzanne that delusional that she would
        > kiss a toad (for real) or was this just a dream?
        > It's unclear!
        >
        > Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
        > that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
        > representing earthly limitations, initiations,
        > and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
        > represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
        > she seeks!
        >
        > "A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
        > version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
        > guitar players sang."
        >
        > [ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
        > In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
        > "Amazing Grace!"
        >
        > "Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
        > story. She said that her car key snapped into
        > two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND she
        > had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
        > call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
        > which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
        > She went into a nearby shop, where she asked
        > if they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong
        > household glue that is commonly used in the
        > U.S. to fix things. They didn't have any, and the
        > clerk told her that it wouldn't work on a car key,
        > she tried it anyway. Suzanne was, then, advised
        > to call a locksmith, which she did through AAA
        > (automotive club). In 15 minutes, she had a new
        > key made and was able to drive home.
        >
        > She noticed that this incident had highlighted
        > a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
        > not able to get home. She realized that she had
        > the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
        > your back,' she said."
        >
        > [ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!
        >
        > This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
        > represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
        > elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
        > The "clerk" was Soul (via Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
        > pointing out the errors of her thinking (beliefs) and
        > AAA represented the Holy Spirit (unlocking Truth),
        > as well as, Soul's (her) relationship with IT. This
        > Waking Dream (and Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
        > points out that Suzanne refused, at first, to listen
        > to Soul (the clerk) concerning the "Crazy Glue"
        > (Klemp). And, there is No Need for a middleman
        > Mahanta (Crazy Glue) since HK won't/can't "Fix"
        > all that he claims, or that people think he can "fix."
        > Her "fear of being stranded and not making it home"
        > is telling her that ECKankar will leave her "stranded"
        > in the lower worlds and Will Not help her (Soul),
        > from this point on, to return to the Ocean of Love
        > and Mercy.
        >
        > [End of Part 2]
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
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