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EK 2009 Springtime Seminar (part 2)

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, Here s more from the seminar which includes two stories from the MC. As mentioned before, these detailed notes were taken by an ECKist who lives in
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 21, 2009
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      Hello All,
      Here's more from the seminar which
      includes two stories from the MC.

      As mentioned before, these detailed
      notes were taken by an ECKist who
      lives in the area, and who attended
      the entire seminar. Some of her
      comments are based upon simple
      observations that only attendees
      could experience.

      "The evening session for the 2009
      Eck Springtime Seminar was held
      in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
      Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
      packed. One ESC official came on
      stage, before the session began,
      to urge everyone to move toward
      the center to free up seats near the
      aisles."

      [ME]: In my early years that would
      always irk me and I would ignore
      the orders and not move. I came
      early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
      an unoccupied reserved one). I would
      have a direct view of the speakers.
      Why should irresponsible late comers
      get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
      sit in the back of the room, or stand
      along the back wall, (nowadays they
      can be directed to the overflow room)!
      What it comes down to is that everyone
      should be FREE to sit where they want.
      What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
      to Freedom of Choice? This a Waking
      Dream/Golden-Tongued Wisdom that
      ECKists have ignored for years!

      "Although the number of attendees was
      SMALL, compared with attendees at the
      2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
      official did mention that there were MORE
      people in attendance at the Saturday
      evening session than they had anticipated."

      [ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
      Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
      "anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
      the ESC count the number of pre-registered
      people, and "know" how many locals would
      come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
      thinking there's more to it than this. The
      ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
      (karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
      small and the Convention Center was too
      big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
      have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
      to find the venue that was "just right!"

      "The MC for the evening was Suzanne Percoskie.
      Suzanne began by telling a story where she
      was asked, by the Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY
      want?'

      She replied, 'I want to experience love.' Later,
      she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking that
      the toad represented a 'prince' for her. Of course,
      nothing happened.

      The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
      'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
      experience Divine Love.'

      Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
      she was allowed to experience God's love
      directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
      she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
      She urged the audience to ask themselves,
      'What do I REALLY want?'"

      [ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
      Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
      Devil. He had to be very precise with his wishes
      or the Devil would trick him and twist the positive
      wishes into negative results. Is Klemp a Genie,
      or a Devil? And, is Suzanne that delusional that
      she would kiss a toad (for real) or was this just
      a dream? It's unclear!

      Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
      that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
      representing earthly limitations, initiations,
      and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
      represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
      she wants!


      "A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
      version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
      guitar players sang."

      [ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
      In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
      "Amazing Grace!"


      "Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
      [stupid] story. She said that her car key snapped
      into two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND
      she had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
      call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
      which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
      She went into a nearby shop, where she asked if
      they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong household
      glue that is commonly used in the U.S. to fix things.
      They didn't have any, and the clerk told her that
      it wouldn't work on a car key, anyway, as she had
      tried it. Suzanne was advised to call a locksmith,
      which she did through AAA (automotive club).
      In 15 minutes, she had a new key made and was
      able to drive home.

      She noticed that this incident had highlighted
      a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
      not able to get home. She realized that she had
      the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
      your back,' she said."

      [ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!

      This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
      represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
      elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
      The "clerk" was Soul pointing out the errors of her
      thinking (beliefs) and AAA represented the Holy
      Spirit and Soul's relationship with It. This Waking
      Dream points out that there is No Need for a middleman
      Mahanta (Crazy Glue) and that he (it) won't/can't
      "Fix" all that he (it) claims. Her "fear of being stranded
      and not making it home" is telling her that ECKankar
      will leave her "stranded" in the lower worlds and
      Will Not help her (Soul), from this point on, to
      return to the Ocean of Love and Mercy.

      [End of Part 2]

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      The following excerpt tells volumes about the limiting and restricted mindset that EKists accept as part of their religious dogma. It seems that Eckists can
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 22, 2009
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        The following excerpt tells volumes
        about the limiting and restricted
        mindset that EKists accept as part
        of their religious dogma. It seems
        that Eckists can only "experience"
        a few seconds of "God's love."

        Suzanne (the MC) said:
        'My wish [to experience Divine Love] was
        [finally] granted [by the Mahanta], and for
        a brief moment I was allowed to experience
        God's love directly. It was all that I had hoped,
        and I realized that I deserve more than just
        a toad [Klemp]!' "She, then, urged the audience
        to ask themselves, 'What do I REALLY want?"'

        However, was this really a "direct"
        experience since it was via the M/
        LEM? And, why was this "love" coming
        from "God" versus SUGMAD? Okay,
        let's say that this "God" and Sugmad
        are one and the same. Why does
        anyone, especially spiritually advanced
        Eckists (lol), ALWAYS need Klemp's
        intervention? How does Co-dependency
        equate to being Spiritually Free or
        Spiritually Advanced and with Self-
        Mastery?

        BTW- Was Suzanne's "brief moment"
        of experiencing "Divine Love" the same
        as God-Realization? It's a wonder she
        didn't feel compelled to jump off a
        bridge, etc. like Klemp!

        After leaving ECKankar, and removing
        myself from the muck and mire of the
        limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
        had a Divine experience, but it lasted
        for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
        For a day and a half I experience total
        contentment! The experience gave a
        gentle and expanded clarity that was
        multifaceted and layered with insights
        into and understanding. There was a
        sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
        and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
        Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
        dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
        it possible to experience this purity of
        Truth and of the REAL.

        Prometheus


        prometheus wrote:

        Hello All,
        Here's more from the seminar which
        includes two stories from the MC.

        As mentioned before, these detailed
        notes were taken by an ECKist who
        lives in the area, and who attended
        the entire seminar. Some of her
        comments are based upon simple
        observations that only attendees
        could experience.

        "The evening session for the 2009
        Eck Springtime Seminar was held
        in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
        Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
        packed. One ESC official came on
        stage, before the session began,
        to urge everyone to move toward
        the center to free up seats near the
        aisles."

        [ME]: In my early years that would
        always irk me and I would ignore
        the orders and not move. I came
        early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
        an unoccupied reserved one). I would
        have a direct view of the speakers.
        Why should irresponsible late comers
        get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
        sit in the back of the room, or stand
        along the back wall, (nowadays they
        can be directed to the overflow room)!
        What it comes down to is that everyone
        should be FREE to sit where they want.
        What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
        to Freedom of Choice? Could this be
        another hint (by the EK) and "Golden-
        Tongued Wisdom" that ECKists have
        ignored for years?

        "Although the number of attendees was
        SMALL, compared with attendees at the
        2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
        official did mention that there were MORE
        people in attendance at the Saturday
        evening session than they had anticipated."

        [ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
        Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
        "anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
        the ESC count the number of pre-registered
        people, and "know" how many locals would
        come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
        thinking there's more to it than this. The
        ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
        (karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
        small and the Convention Center was too
        big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
        have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
        to find the venue that was "just right!"

        "The MC for the evening was Suzanne
        Percoskie. Suzanne began by telling
        a story where she was asked, by the
        Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY want?'

        She replied, 'I want to experience love.'
        Later, she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking
        that the toad represented a 'prince' for her.
        Of course, nothing happened.

        The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
        'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
        experience Divine Love.'

        Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
        she was allowed to experience God's love
        directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
        she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
        She urged the audience to ask themselves,
        'What do I REALLY want?'"

        [ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
        Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
        Devil. The Devil took different forms and one
        was that of a beautiful woman. He had to be
        very precise with his wishes or the Devil would
        trick him and twist the positive wishes into
        negative results. Is Klemp a Genie, or a Devil?
        And, is Suzanne that delusional that she would
        kiss a toad (for real) or was this just a dream?
        It's unclear!

        Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
        that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
        representing earthly limitations, initiations,
        and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
        represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
        she seeks!

        "A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
        version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
        guitar players sang."

        [ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
        In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
        "Amazing Grace!"

        "Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
        story. She said that her car key snapped into
        two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND she
        had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
        call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
        which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
        She went into a nearby shop, where she asked
        if they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong
        household glue that is commonly used in the
        U.S. to fix things. They didn't have any, and the
        clerk told her that it wouldn't work on a car key,
        she tried it anyway. Suzanne was, then, advised
        to call a locksmith, which she did through AAA
        (automotive club). In 15 minutes, she had a new
        key made and was able to drive home.

        She noticed that this incident had highlighted
        a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
        not able to get home. She realized that she had
        the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
        your back,' she said."

        [ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!

        This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
        represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
        elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
        The "clerk" was Soul (via Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
        pointing out the errors of her thinking (beliefs) and
        AAA represented the Holy Spirit (unlocking Truth),
        as well as, Soul's (her) relationship with IT. This
        Waking Dream (and Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
        points out that Suzanne refused, at first, to listen
        to Soul (the clerk) concerning the "Crazy Glue"
        (Klemp). And, there is No Need for a middleman
        Mahanta (Crazy Glue) since HK won't/can't "Fix"
        all that he claims, or that people think he can "fix."
        Her "fear of being stranded and not making it home"
        is telling her that ECKankar will leave her "stranded"
        in the lower worlds and Will Not help her (Soul),
        from this point on, to return to the Ocean of Love
        and Mercy.

        [End of Part 2]

        Prometheus
      • Non ekster
        Prometheus, I would have to agree with you about the As If Fake Love that eckists claim to feel. It is always conditional. Often, I have had the same
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 22, 2009
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          Prometheus,

          I would have to agree with you about the "As If" Fake Love that eckists claim to feel. It is always conditional. Often, I have had the same profound sense of Beingness and Contentment that was Beauty personified, kind of like when you look into the eyes of a wild tiger, or glimpse the serene expanse of the sky beyond the horizon. It is difficult to put into words. You certainly don't need to say I felt it through my Kult Leader, Klemp.

          I liked what you said:

          "After leaving ECKankar, and removing
          > myself from the muck and mire of the
          > limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
          > had a Divine experience, but it lasted
          > for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
          > For a day and a half I experience total
          > contentment! The experience gave a
          > gentle and expanded clarity that was
          > multifaceted and layered with insights
          > into and understanding. There was a
          > sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
          > and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
          > Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
          > dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
          > it possible to experience this purity of
          > Truth and of the REAL. "

          In addition, my experience (vs. eksperience) was/is usually Non theistic, as it is beyond words and conceptions. Even the word Beauty does not have the same meaning, because it is All Inclusive. I could never truly experience this in eckankar org. Eckankar is extremely divisive and smothering.

          The kind of experience you describe (The experience gave a
          > gentle and expanded clarity that was
          > multifaceted and layered with insights
          > into and understanding.) is what led me AWAY from eckankar, not toward it.

          Non Eckster ; )

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > The following excerpt tells volumes
          > about the limiting and restricted
          > mindset that EKists accept as part
          > of their religious dogma. It seems
          > that Eckists can only "experience"
          > a few seconds of "God's love."
          >
          > Suzanne (the MC) said:
          > 'My wish [to experience Divine Love] was
          > [finally] granted [by the Mahanta], and for
          > a brief moment I was allowed to experience
          > God's love directly. It was all that I had hoped,
          > and I realized that I deserve more than just
          > a toad [Klemp]!' "She, then, urged the audience
          > to ask themselves, 'What do I REALLY want?"'
          >
          > However, was this really a "direct"
          > experience since it was via the M/
          > LEM? And, why was this "love" coming
          > from "God" versus SUGMAD? Okay,
          > let's say that this "God" and Sugmad
          > are one and the same. Why does
          > anyone, especially spiritually advanced
          > Eckists (lol), ALWAYS need Klemp's
          > intervention? How does Co-dependency
          > equate to being Spiritually Free or
          > Spiritually Advanced and with Self-
          > Mastery?
          >
          > BTW- Was Suzanne's "brief moment"
          > of experiencing "Divine Love" the same
          > as God-Realization? It's a wonder she
          > didn't feel compelled to jump off a
          > bridge, etc. like Klemp!
          >
          > After leaving ECKankar, and removing
          > myself from the muck and mire of the
          > limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
          > had a Divine experience, but it lasted
          > for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
          > For a day and a half I experience total
          > contentment! The experience gave a
          > gentle and expanded clarity that was
          > multifaceted and layered with insights
          > into and understanding. There was a
          > sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
          > and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
          > Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
          > dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
          > it possible to experience this purity of
          > Truth and of the REAL.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > Here's more from the seminar which
          > includes two stories from the MC.
          >
          > As mentioned before, these detailed
          > notes were taken by an ECKist who
          > lives in the area, and who attended
          > the entire seminar. Some of her
          > comments are based upon simple
          > observations that only attendees
          > could experience.
          >
          > "The evening session for the 2009
          > Eck Springtime Seminar was held
          > in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
          > Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
          > packed. One ESC official came on
          > stage, before the session began,
          > to urge everyone to move toward
          > the center to free up seats near the
          > aisles."
          >
          > [ME]: In my early years that would
          > always irk me and I would ignore
          > the orders and not move. I came
          > early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
          > an unoccupied reserved one). I would
          > have a direct view of the speakers.
          > Why should irresponsible late comers
          > get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
          > sit in the back of the room, or stand
          > along the back wall, (nowadays they
          > can be directed to the overflow room)!
          > What it comes down to is that everyone
          > should be FREE to sit where they want.
          > What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
          > to Freedom of Choice? Could this be
          > another hint (by the EK) and "Golden-
          > Tongued Wisdom" that ECKists have
          > ignored for years?
          >
          > "Although the number of attendees was
          > SMALL, compared with attendees at the
          > 2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
          > official did mention that there were MORE
          > people in attendance at the Saturday
          > evening session than they had anticipated."
          >
          > [ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
          > Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
          > "anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
          > the ESC count the number of pre-registered
          > people, and "know" how many locals would
          > come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
          > thinking there's more to it than this. The
          > ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
          > (karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
          > small and the Convention Center was too
          > big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
          > have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
          > to find the venue that was "just right!"
          >
          > "The MC for the evening was Suzanne
          > Percoskie. Suzanne began by telling
          > a story where she was asked, by the
          > Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY want?'
          >
          > She replied, 'I want to experience love.'
          > Later, she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking
          > that the toad represented a 'prince' for her.
          > Of course, nothing happened.
          >
          > The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
          > 'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
          > experience Divine Love.'
          >
          > Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
          > she was allowed to experience God's love
          > directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
          > she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
          > She urged the audience to ask themselves,
          > 'What do I REALLY want?'"
          >
          > [ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
          > Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
          > Devil. The Devil took different forms and one
          > was that of a beautiful woman. He had to be
          > very precise with his wishes or the Devil would
          > trick him and twist the positive wishes into
          > negative results. Is Klemp a Genie, or a Devil?
          > And, is Suzanne that delusional that she would
          > kiss a toad (for real) or was this just a dream?
          > It's unclear!
          >
          > Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
          > that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
          > representing earthly limitations, initiations,
          > and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
          > represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
          > she seeks!
          >
          > "A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
          > version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
          > guitar players sang."
          >
          > [ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
          > In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
          > "Amazing Grace!"
          >
          > "Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
          > story. She said that her car key snapped into
          > two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND she
          > had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
          > call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
          > which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
          > She went into a nearby shop, where she asked
          > if they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong
          > household glue that is commonly used in the
          > U.S. to fix things. They didn't have any, and the
          > clerk told her that it wouldn't work on a car key,
          > she tried it anyway. Suzanne was, then, advised
          > to call a locksmith, which she did through AAA
          > (automotive club). In 15 minutes, she had a new
          > key made and was able to drive home.
          >
          > She noticed that this incident had highlighted
          > a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
          > not able to get home. She realized that she had
          > the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
          > your back,' she said."
          >
          > [ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!
          >
          > This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
          > represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
          > elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
          > The "clerk" was Soul (via Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
          > pointing out the errors of her thinking (beliefs) and
          > AAA represented the Holy Spirit (unlocking Truth),
          > as well as, Soul's (her) relationship with IT. This
          > Waking Dream (and Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
          > points out that Suzanne refused, at first, to listen
          > to Soul (the clerk) concerning the "Crazy Glue"
          > (Klemp). And, there is No Need for a middleman
          > Mahanta (Crazy Glue) since HK won't/can't "Fix"
          > all that he claims, or that people think he can "fix."
          > Her "fear of being stranded and not making it home"
          > is telling her that ECKankar will leave her "stranded"
          > in the lower worlds and Will Not help her (Soul),
          > from this point on, to return to the Ocean of Love
          > and Mercy.
          >
          > [End of Part 2]
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Non ekster and All, I agree that many EKists mistake conditional love for unconditional love. In the one story (below) that the MC, Suzanne, told she was
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 23, 2009
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            Hello Non ekster and All,
            I agree that many EKists mistake conditional
            love for unconditional love. In the one story
            (below) that the MC, Suzanne, told she was
            "wishing to experience Divine Love." However,
            often EKists don't realize Their own Divinity
            as Soul. Isn't it true that Soul is Divine and
            IS One with the Holy Spirit!

            Therefore, all one has to do is to love their
            own True Self and Beingness as Soul (and to
            identify with Soul) in order to experience
            "Divine Love."

            One Does Not need to have a "wish" granted
            by some middleman mahanta. So, if EKists really
            did believe in the Divine aspects of Soul they
            wouldn't be giving or listening to talks based
            upon such primitive and limiting concepts in
            consciousness.

            After all, the concept that "we ARE Soul" versus
            "we HAVE a Soul" is rather unique. Also, unique,
            is that Soul is "One" with the Holy Spirit. But,
            EKists are restricted (by Klemp) as to how far
            they are permitted to take these concepts. Instead,
            they are (mis)directed away from their own unique
            Divinity and are conditioned to believe in a "Master"
            other than Soul. EKists are, also, instructed to
            follow a more generic and generalized "group"
            and/or "circle" form of consciousness. This is
            a KAL trap!

            Prometheus


            Non ekster wrote:

            Prometheus,

            I would have to agree with you about the "As If"
            Fake Love that eckists claim to feel. It is always
            conditional. Often, I have had the same profound
            sense of Beingness and Contentment that was Beauty
            personified, kind of like when you look into the eyes
            of a wild tiger, or glimpse the serene expanse of
            the sky beyond the horizon. It is difficult to put into
            words. You certainly don't need to say I felt it through
            my Kult Leader, Klemp.

            I liked what you said:

            > "After leaving ECKankar, and removing
            > myself from the muck and mire of the
            > limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
            > had a Divine experience, but it lasted
            > for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
            > For a day and a half I experience total
            > contentment! The experience gave a
            > gentle and expanded clarity that was
            > multifaceted and layered with insights
            > and understanding. There was a sense
            > of Oneness with the Holy Spirit and a
            > Unity and Harmony with all things.
            > Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
            > dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
            > it possible to experience this purity of
            > Truth and of the REAL. "

            In addition, my experience (vs. eksperience)
            was/is usually Non theistic, as it is beyond
            words and conceptions. Even the word Beauty
            does not have the same meaning, because
            it is All Inclusive. I could never truly experience
            this in eckankar org. Eckankar is extremely
            divisive and smothering.

            The kind of experience you describe
            (The experience gave a gentle and expanded
            clarity that was multifaceted and layered with
            insights and understanding) is what led me
            AWAY from eckankar, not toward it.

            Non Eckster ; )

            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > The following excerpt tells volumes
            > about the limiting and restricted
            > mindset that EKists accept as part
            > of their religious dogma. It seems
            > that Eckists can only "experience"
            > a few seconds of "God's love."
            >
            > Suzanne (the MC) said:
            > 'My wish [to experience Divine Love] was
            > [finally] granted [by the Mahanta], and for
            > a brief moment I was allowed to experience
            > God's love directly. It was all that I had hoped,
            > and I realized that I deserve more than just
            > a toad [Klemp]!' "She, then, urged the audience
            > to ask themselves, 'What do I REALLY want?"'
            >
            > However, was this really a "direct"
            > experience since it was via the M/
            > LEM? And, why was this "love" coming
            > from "God" versus SUGMAD? Okay,
            > let's say that this "God" and Sugmad
            > are one and the same. Why does
            > anyone, especially spiritually advanced
            > Eckists (lol), ALWAYS need Klemp's
            > intervention? How does Co-dependency
            > equate to being Spiritually Free or
            > Spiritually Advanced and with Self-
            > Mastery?
            >
            > BTW- Was Suzanne's "brief moment"
            > of experiencing "Divine Love" the same
            > as God-Realization? It's a wonder she
            > didn't feel compelled to jump off a
            > bridge, etc. like Klemp!
            >
            > After leaving ECKankar, and removing
            > myself from the muck and mire of the
            > limiting and restricted EK dogma, I too
            > had a Divine experience, but it lasted
            > for about 36 hours versus a "brief moment."
            > For a day and a half I experience total
            > contentment! The experience gave a
            > gentle and expanded clarity that was
            > multifaceted and layered with insights
            > into and understanding. There was a
            > sense of Oneness with the Holy Spirit
            > and a Unity and Harmony with all things.
            > Not until leaving ECKankar, and the Co-
            > dependent M/LEM mindset behind, was
            > it possible to experience this purity of
            > Truth and of the REAL.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > Here's more from the seminar which
            > includes two stories from the MC.
            >
            > As mentioned before, these detailed
            > notes were taken by an ECKist who
            > lives in the area, and who attended
            > the entire seminar. Some of her
            > comments are based upon simple
            > observations that only attendees
            > could experience.
            >
            > "The evening session for the 2009
            > Eck Springtime Seminar was held
            > in Salon D on the 3rd floor in the
            > Hilton Hotel. The room was jam
            > packed. One ESC official came on
            > stage, before the session began,
            > to urge everyone to move toward
            > the center to free up seats near the
            > aisles."
            >
            > [ME]: In my early years that would
            > always irk me and I would ignore
            > the orders and not move. I came
            > early and liked my aisle seat, (behind
            > an unoccupied reserved one). I would
            > have a direct view of the speakers.
            > Why should irresponsible late comers
            > get the best seats? Let the procrastinators
            > sit in the back of the room, or stand
            > along the back wall, (nowadays they
            > can be directed to the overflow room)!
            > What it comes down to is that everyone
            > should be FREE to sit where they want.
            > What happened to Spiritual Freedom and
            > to Freedom of Choice? Could this be
            > another hint (by the EK) and "Golden-
            > Tongued Wisdom" that ECKists have
            > ignored for years?
            >
            > "Although the number of attendees was
            > SMALL, compared with attendees at the
            > 2008 EK Worldwide Seminar, the ESC
            > official did mention that there were MORE
            > people in attendance at the Saturday
            > evening session than they had anticipated."
            >
            > [ME]: That doesn't make sense! Harry, the
            > Modern Day Prophet, should "know" and
            > "anticipate" anything and everything! Didn't
            > the ESC count the number of pre-registered
            > people, and "know" how many locals would
            > come for Harry's Saturday Evening talk? I'm
            > thinking there's more to it than this. The
            > ESC, and Klemp, were caught in a Catch-22
            > (karmic event). The Hilton, Salon D, was too
            > small and the Convention Center was too
            > big (and costly). Perhaps, Klemp should
            > have channeled "Goldie Locks" in order
            > to find the venue that was "just right!"
            >
            > "The MC for the evening was Suzanne
            > Percoskie. Suzanne began by telling
            > a story where she was asked, by the
            > Mahanta, 'What do you REALLY want?'
            >
            > She replied, 'I want to experience love.'
            > Later, she saw a toad and kissed it, thinking
            > that the toad represented a 'prince' for her.
            > Of course, nothing happened.
            >
            > The next day the Mahanta asked her again,
            > 'Is that ALL you want?' She said, 'I want to
            > experience Divine Love.'
            >
            > Her wish was granted, and for a brief moment,
            > she was allowed to experience God's love
            > directly. It was all that she had hoped, and
            > she realized, 'I deserve more than just a toad!'
            > She urged the audience to ask themselves,
            > 'What do I REALLY want?'"
            >
            > [ME]: This reminded me of a movie where
            > Brandon Frazer had "wishes" granted by the
            > Devil. The Devil took different forms and one
            > was that of a beautiful woman. He had to be
            > very precise with his wishes or the Devil would
            > trick him and twist the positive wishes into
            > negative results. Is Klemp a Genie, or a Devil?
            > And, is Suzanne that delusional that she would
            > kiss a toad (for real) or was this just a dream?
            > It's unclear!
            >
            > Actually, Suzanne misinterpreted the message
            > that "Soul" provided her. Klemp is the "Toad"
            > representing earthly limitations, initiations,
            > and desires. She (Soul), as the Prince/Princess,
            > represents the Divine. She IS, already, what
            > she seeks!
            >
            > "A group of Eck musicians played an upbeat
            > version of Amazing Grace next... One of the
            > guitar players sang."
            >
            > [ME]: Was that Amazing Grace or Amazing HU?
            > In reality, "Amazing HU" is a pirated version of
            > "Amazing Grace!"
            >
            > "Suzanne returned to the stage to tell another
            > story. She said that her car key snapped into
            > two pieces suddenly a few days ago, AND she
            > had left her cell phone at work, so she couldn't
            > call anyone for help. (I remember this incident,
            > which she told about on FACEBOOK very recently).
            > She went into a nearby shop, where she asked
            > if they had any Crazy Glue, a very strong
            > household glue that is commonly used in the
            > U.S. to fix things. They didn't have any, and the
            > clerk told her that it wouldn't work on a car key,
            > she tried it anyway. Suzanne was, then, advised
            > to call a locksmith, which she did through AAA
            > (automotive club). In 15 minutes, she had a new
            > key made and was able to drive home.
            >
            > She noticed that this incident had highlighted
            > a fear of hers, the fear of being stranded and
            > not able to get home. She realized that she had
            > the Mahanta's help all along. 'The Mahanta's has
            > your back,' she said."
            >
            > [ME]: Actually, it sounds more like AAA has her back!
            >
            > This is a "Waking Dream." Klemp (the Mahanta)
            > represents the "Crazy Glue" that Can't Fix KEY
            > elements in Soul's (her) journey on the road of life.
            > The "clerk" was Soul (via Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
            > pointing out the errors of her thinking (beliefs) and
            > AAA represented the Holy Spirit (unlocking Truth),
            > as well as, Soul's (her) relationship with IT. This
            > Waking Dream (and Golden-Tongued Wisdom)
            > points out that Suzanne refused, at first, to listen
            > to Soul (the clerk) concerning the "Crazy Glue"
            > (Klemp). And, there is No Need for a middleman
            > Mahanta (Crazy Glue) since HK won't/can't "Fix"
            > all that he claims, or that people think he can "fix."
            > Her "fear of being stranded and not making it home"
            > is telling her that ECKankar will leave her "stranded"
            > in the lower worlds and Will Not help her (Soul),
            > from this point on, to return to the Ocean of Love
            > and Mercy.
            >
            > [End of Part 2]
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
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