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Re: The Sell: "Spiritual Survival in a Changing World"

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  • mishmisha9
    What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding and love by asking the chelas to
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 19 12:15 AM
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      What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
      this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
      and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
      pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
      not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
      keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
      present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
      the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
      to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
      shooting themselves in the foot!

      On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
      stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
      It would be interesting to know!! : )

      And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
      their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
      the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

      More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
      to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
      do these H.I.s owe Klemp? When will they ever be free of paying
      homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
      to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
      at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
      The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
      stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
      emperor has no clothes!

      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
      > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
      > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
      > both in service and coin."
      >
      > This was on a donation brochure that was
      > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
      > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
      > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
      > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
      > don't? It's always a future promise just like
      > all religions hand out.
      >
      > Here's more, to intimidate ECKists, from
      > Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelsky:
      >
      > "Dear Friends in ECK,
      > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
      > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
      > you for all you do everyday, just for love.
      > Thank you for your continuing service and
      > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
      > changing world."
      >
      > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
      > Maybe more initiations is how you and
      > Harry could really show "thanks."
      >
      > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
      > troublesome times, people are searching
      > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
      > in their lives."
      >
      > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
      > them of more money?
      >
      > PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
      > the financial realities of these shifting economic
      > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
      > to maintain our programs for members and
      > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
      > We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
      > requested membership donation at its current
      > amount, which has been in effect since January
      > 1, 1998."
      >
      > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
      > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
      > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
      > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
      > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
      > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
      > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
      > on bad investments?
      >
      > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
      > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
      > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
      > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
      > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
      > their hearts.'
      >
      > ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
      > basically the same thing. That is the trap of
      > religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
      > printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
      > printing his simple-minded and redundant
      > books.
      >
      > PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
      > SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
      > children of God, find their way back home
      > to God."
      >
      > ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
      > to them and what do they expect in return?
      > What is given is an EK membership card and
      > about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
      > quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
      > there are also initiations that trickle down
      > very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
      > expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
      >
      > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
      > have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
      >
      > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
      > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
      > happened after reading a couple of books."
      >
      > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
      > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
      > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
      > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
      >
      > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
      > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
      >
      > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
      > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
      > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
      > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
      >
      > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
      > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
      > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
      > now."
      >
      > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
      > had stayed current with the money your "connection"
      > would have continued just like with the phone
      > company.
      >
      > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
      > other members, I felt love."
      >
      > ME: Any member of any church could attend
      > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
      >
      > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
      > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
      >
      > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
      > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
      > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
      > initiations.
      >
      > PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
      > first came upon and recognized the ECK
      > teachings. As members, we know that each
      > day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
      > forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
      > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
      >
      > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
      > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
      > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
      > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
      > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
      > "different."
      >
      > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
      > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
      > 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
      > to recognize it through the hard times and the
      > good times."
      >
      > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
      > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
      > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
      >
      > PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
      > being so that you can better understand the
      > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
      > lights of God, are going through too. in doing
      > so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
      >
      > ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
      > and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
      > need HK or a religion for that!
      >
      > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
      > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
      > and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
      > we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
      > we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
      > for whatever is given."
      >
      > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
      > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
      > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
      > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
      > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
      > tough--hang onto that money!
      >
      > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
      > blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
      > we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
      > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
      > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
      > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
      > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
      >
      > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
      > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
      > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
      > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
      > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
      >
      > PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
      > and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
      > again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
      > the LEM.
      >
      > ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
      > in you will or estate plans, check the designated
      > box on the donation form and return it in the
      > enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
      > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
      > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
      > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
      > donation via the Internet."
      >
      > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
      > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
      > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
      > even more!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Mish and All, It s always interesting to see and analyze Klemp s B.S. from an unclouded and open- minded perspective as a former EKist. Klemp, once
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 19 12:29 PM
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        Hello Mish and All,
        It's always interesting to see and analyze
        Klemp's B.S. from an unclouded and open-
        minded perspective as a former EKist.

        Klemp, once again, demonstrates his lack
        of empathy for all people as he admits that
        we are in a recession, but has Peter Skelskey
        send out a donation letter to HK's chelas just
        prior to the EK Springtime Seminar.

        Klemp tries to downplay it all by saying that
        there was a higher percentage of people out
        of work then (circa 1930) than today. Then he
        smiles (humor?) at how people view it (recession/
        depression) as long as they're not affected.

        Klemp has no worries because of the millions
        he has safely (and secretly) hidden away. HK's
        definitely better at hiding money than Darwin.
        This was one reason why Klemp moved ECKankar
        to Minnesota since this state doesn't require
        public disclosure of finances from non-profit
        organizations. And, Klemp has had 28 years
        to squirrel money and property away due to
        having complete control over the EK Board and
        all finances. The impact of non-disclosure and
        irresponsible/reckless spending is now having
        more effect during this current economic downturn.

        I wonder how much money ECKankar lost with
        investments? I doubt that even the RESAs will
        be told! But, it does, once again, point out that
        Klemp (the Mahanta) isn't even close to be "All
        Knowing" as he claims when "The Modern Prophet"
        can't even see the future on the lowest Plane of
        all! What good is it for ECKists to contact the
        "INNER MASTER" on the Higher Planes when the
        Inner/Outer Master can't even help them on this
        Plane! LOL!

        Let's face it! Klemp isn't much of a spiritual
        leader, and he doesn't have any charisma! HK
        doesn't write much better than he speaks either!
        Klemp's a dull and dimwitted narcissist and control
        freak with a mean-streak. HK positioned himself
        at the ESC under Darwin and wrote some brochures
        and a book and flew under the radar and over the
        cuckoo's nest.

        Had Darwin known about Klemp's delusions and
        bridge jump, strip tease, and mental institution
        confinement he never would have chosen such an
        unstable replacement! Klemp's unstable and
        anti-social personality is why 99.9% of H.I.s will
        never see an Eight Initiation in this or any lifetime!
        How long does it take, even today, to become an
        ESA and 7th initiate? This is why Klemp instructs
        ECKists to use their "imaginations" more and more!
        Klemp is selfish and fearful and won't share the
        mountain top! This is also why he won't handout
        any 12th Initiations (ECK Masterships). Although,
        Joan was once due to receive one until HK's plan
        was exposed prematurely by Mish's analysis of,
        "Those Wonderful ECK Masters."

        IMO- ECKists would be better off if there was a schism
        where a FEMALE, 7th or 8th Initiate, broke away from
        Klemp and Company and became the new leader. Let's
        face it... EK women do most of the work, are more loving
        and patient, have more empathy, and are better organized
        than most male H.I.s. Women communicate better too!
        Yet, in the religious Boy's Club, women will always be
        second class members! Female ECKists and Female ECK
        Masters (one, Kata Daki) can never become the Mahanta/
        LEM. Really, by not being able to become the LEM also
        means that they (she, Kata Daki) will never become the
        Mahanta either! Yet, ECKists never think about these
        details and facts about their religious dogma because
        they are discouraged (via fear tactics) from thinking about,
        questioning, and discussing such things. EK women (all
        women) must have blind faith and blind trust that the
        male M/LEM (Pope and other male religious leaders) are
        being honest with them when they claim they are not
        "spiritually" capable (due to negative atoms or sin) to
        be the Leader/Mahanta.

        However, ECKists should acknowledge that ECKankar,
        also, believes in a "Garden of Eden" Myth with their own
        Adom (Adam) and Ede (Eve). ECKists need only to reference
        their EK Lexicons and "Polarians." Thus, ECKankar, too, is
        fashioned after other mythical and male dominated religions
        where men are at the top of the religious/decision making
        hierarchy. Kata Daki is a token female EK Master created
        after-the-fact and in memory of Twitchell's sister Kay-Dee.
        Thus, Kata Daki (K.D.) and Kay-Dee!

        NOTE:

        (circa) Monday, April 13, 2009
        Peter Skelskey: "Here at ECKankar We Are
        Also Experiencing the Financial Realities
        of these Shifting Economic Cycles. Cost
        of materials, services, and equipment
        to maintain our programs for members
        and spiritual seekers are increasing week
        by week. We are trying hard to maintain
        our (lifestyle?) Requested Membership
        Donation at its current amount, which
        has been in effect since January 1, 1998."


        Saturday, April 18, 2009
        "Klemp welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
        remarking: 'I am glad that you have come,
        since travel is difficult for many people, with
        the economic downturn. The so-called experts
        don't really know what's going on. After all,
        they didn't seem to see this Recession coming.
        Right now, overall, there is 8% unemployment
        in the U.S. While this is high, unemployment
        during the Great Depression (after the stock
        market crash on October 29, 1929) was much
        higher, 30%. When your neighbor's out of work,
        it's a recession. When you're out of work, it's
        a depression,' Klemp said with a smile."

        Prometheus


        mishmisha wrote:

        What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
        this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
        and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
        pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
        not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
        keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
        present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
        the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
        to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
        shooting themselves in the foot!

        On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
        stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
        It would be interesting to know!! : )

        And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
        their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
        the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

        More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
        to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
        do these H.I.s owe Klemp? When will they ever be free of paying
        homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
        to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
        at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
        The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
        stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
        emperor has no clothes!

        Mish

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
        > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
        > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
        > both in service and coin."
        >
        > This was on a donation brochure that was
        > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
        > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
        > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
        > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
        > don't? It's always a future promise just like
        > all religions hand out.
        >
        > Here's more, to intimidate ECKists, from
        > Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelsky:
        >
        > "Dear Friends in ECK,
        > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
        > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
        > you for all you do everyday, just for love.
        > Thank you for your continuing service and
        > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
        > changing world."
        >
        > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
        > Maybe more initiations is how you and
        > Harry could really show "thanks."
        >
        > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
        > troublesome times, people are searching
        > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
        > in their lives."
        >
        > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
        > them of more money?
        >
        > PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
        > the financial realities of these shifting economic
        > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
        > to maintain our programs for members and
        > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
        > We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
        > requested membership donation at its current
        > amount, which has been in effect since January
        > 1, 1998."
        >
        > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
        > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
        > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
        > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
        > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
        > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
        > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
        > on bad investments?
        >
        > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
        > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
        > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
        > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
        > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
        > their hearts.'
        >
        > ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
        > basically the same thing. That is the trap of
        > religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
        > printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
        > printing his simple-minded and redundant
        > books.
        >
        > PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
        > SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
        > children of God, find their way back home
        > to God."
        >
        > ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
        > to them and what do they expect in return?
        > What is given is an EK membership card and
        > about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
        > quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
        > there are also initiations that trickle down
        > very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
        > expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
        >
        > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
        > have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
        >
        > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
        > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
        > happened after reading a couple of books."
        >
        > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
        > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
        > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
        > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
        >
        > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
        > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
        >
        > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
        > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
        > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
        > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
        >
        > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
        > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
        > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
        > now."
        >
        > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
        > had stayed current with the money your "connection"
        > would have continued just like with the phone
        > company.
        >
        > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
        > other members, I felt love."
        >
        > ME: Any member of any church could attend
        > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
        >
        > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
        > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
        >
        > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
        > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
        > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
        > initiations.
        >
        > PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
        > first came upon and recognized the ECK
        > teachings. As members, we know that each
        > day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
        > forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
        > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
        >
        > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
        > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
        > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
        > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
        > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
        > "different."
        >
        > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
        > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
        > 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
        > to recognize it through the hard times and the
        > good times."
        >
        > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
        > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
        > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
        >
        > PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
        > being so that you can better understand the
        > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
        > lights of God, are going through too. in doing
        > so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
        >
        > ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
        > and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
        > need HK or a religion for that!
        >
        > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
        > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
        > and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
        > we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
        > we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
        > for whatever is given."
        >
        > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
        > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
        > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
        > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
        > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
        > tough--hang onto that money!
        >
        > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
        > blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
        > we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
        > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
        > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
        > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
        > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
        >
        > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
        > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
        > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
        > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
        > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
        >
        > PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
        > and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
        > again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
        > the LEM.
        >
        > ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
        > in you will or estate plans, check the designated
        > box on the donation form and return it in the
        > enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
        > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
        > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
        > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
        > donation via the Internet."
        >
        > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
        > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
        > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
        > even more!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Instead of lowering ECKankar s Required Membership Fee/Donation Klemp wants to raise it during a Recession! This action proves that Klemp lacks both love
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 20 11:32 AM
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          Instead of "lowering" ECKankar's Required
          Membership Fee/Donation Klemp wants
          to "raise" it during a Recession! This action
          proves that Klemp lacks both love and empathy
          (and common sense) regardless of what he
          may say. Actions speak louder than words
          don't they!

          ECKankar hasn't increased the Membership
          Fee since 1998. Klemp, now, feels that this
          is the perfect time to increase it. IF Klemp
          cared about his followers he would be "Lowering"
          this Required Fee (Requested Donation).

          Why should Klemp Lower the Membership Fee?
          Because this Is Not an actual "Donation!" This is
          a "Fee" because it is directly related to maintaining
          EK Initiations!

          When ECKists aren't able to pay the Membership
          Fee their Initiations are put On Hold for up to
          5 years.

          After 5 years of Non-payment ECKists will lose
          all Initiations including the "Inner Initiations"
          too! Therefore, the EK Membership is, actually,
          a Maintenance Fee for the Initiations. However,
          as an added initiation bonus one's name is
          automatically placed into the hopper (computer)
          like a lottery ticket. The "winners" get a "pink
          slip" for that next initiation. Of course, that, also,
          needs to be kept "active" (via money) with the
          Annual Membership/Maintenance Fee.

          I was e-mailed an EK Wisdom Note of Klemp's,
          not too long ago, and read that a 4th Initiate
          let their EK Membership Lapse (due to Non-payment).
          Klemp stated that ECKists need to continue to
          study their Discourses in order to maintain their
          initiations. For around 18 years the limited (old)
          EK Discourses are included with the Membership
          Fee.

          Of course, for those who have paid for and received
          all of the EK Discourses, this "study requirement" to
          maintain one's initiation can no longer be tracked.
          After all, how would Klemp "know" if a chela was
          rereading their Discourses or Not? Okay, HK might
          "know" if it was mentioned in an IRO. This is why he
          wants them "mailed" in order to update your file and
          track what you're doing. In any case this was a threat,
          or warning to ECKists that they need to keep their
          Annual EK Memberships "current" and, thus, pay the
          Amount of Membership Money Due.

          ECK Memberships should be FREE with
          No Strings Attached! But they aren't!

          WHY NOT have ECKists PAY for Subscriptions
          to "The Mystic World," "The H.I. Letter" and
          "The RESA Star" just like they do with the
          "Youth in ECK, Letter of Light!" If the EK
          Youth can pay for their subscriptions with
          their limited resources Why Not have chelas
          pay for these other EK Pubs too! Separate
          these Material costs from the EK Membership
          and Initiations!

          Have H.I. ECKists pay for the training required
          for those Clerical, Initiator, and ESA positions.

          Also, Lower Initiates (chelas) should pay for
          the EK Discourses. One has to pay for them
          anyway if one wants a copy, or an updated
          version.

          Really, there's already an EK Building Fund
          and an EK Missionary Fund that are actual
          Donations "Without Strings Attached!"

          Anyway, there's a lot more that could have
          been changed, for the better, over the years,
          like the way Memberships are set up, but Klemp
          chose Not to. Now, HK wants to add insult to
          injury by Increasing the Cost of something
          (during a recession no less) that should have
          been FREE! When will ECKists wake-up to
          the Nonsense of Klemp & Company? Why
          do H.I.s Need this religion or any religion(!)

          Do ECKists on HU Chat, or Chela Chat dare
          to even discuss these points? It would Never
          happen! They are too fearful and this would
          be seem as "second-guessing" the Mahanta!
          Actually, it's Not the "Mahanta" making these
          "outer" decisions concerning the "outer" org/
          religion of ECKankar... it's the LEM! Strange,
          that lay Catholics and Priests can question the
          decisions/opinions of the Pope and the Church,
          but ECK chelas and H.I.s can't question the
          decisions/opinions of the LEM and ECKankar!

          Prometheus

          Donation Letter, "Spiritual Survival in
          a Changing World:"

          (circa) Monday, April 13, 2009
          Peter Skelskey: "Here at ECKankar We Are
          Also Experiencing the Financial Realities
          of these Shifting Economic Cycles. Cost
          of materials, services, and equipment
          to maintain our programs for members
          and spiritual seekers are increasing week
          by week. We are trying hard to maintain
          our (lifestyle?) Requested Membership
          Donation at its current amount, which
          has been in effect since January 1, 1998."


          EK Springtime Seminar Saturday, April 18, 2009

          "Klemp welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
          remarking: 'I am glad that you have come,
          since travel is difficult for many people, with
          the economic downturn. The so-called experts
          don't really know what's going on. After all,
          they didn't seem to see this Recession coming.
          Right now, overall, there is 8% unemployment
          in the U.S. While this is high, unemployment
          during the Great Depression (after the stock
          market crash on October 29, 1929) was much
          higher, 30%. When your neighbor's out of work,
          it's a recession. When you're out of work, it's
          a depression,' Klemp said with a smile."

          prometheus wrote:

          Hello Mish and All,
          It's always interesting to see and analyze
          Klemp's B.S. from an unclouded and open-
          minded perspective as a former EKist.

          Klemp, once again, demonstrates his lack
          of empathy for all people as he admits that
          we are in a recession, but has Peter Skelskey
          send out a donation letter to HK's chelas just
          prior to the EK Springtime Seminar.

          Klemp tries to downplay it all by saying that
          there was a higher percentage of people out
          of work then (circa 1930) than today. Then he
          smiles (humor?) at how people view it (recession/
          depression) as long as they're not affected.

          Klemp has no worries because of the millions
          he has safely (and secretly) hidden away. HK's
          definitely better at hiding money than Darwin.
          This was one reason why Klemp moved ECKankar
          to Minnesota since this state doesn't require
          public disclosure of finances from non-profit
          organizations. And, Klemp has had 28 years
          to squirrel money and property away due to
          having complete control over the EK Board and
          all finances. The impact of non-disclosure and
          irresponsible/reckless spending is now having
          more effect during this current economic downturn.

          I wonder how much money ECKankar lost with
          investments? I doubt that even the RESAs will
          be told! But, it does, once again, point out that
          Klemp (the Mahanta) isn't even close to be "All
          Knowing" as he claims when "The Modern Prophet"
          can't even see the future on the lowest Plane of
          all! What good is it for ECKists to contact the
          "INNER MASTER" on the Higher Planes when the
          Inner/Outer Master can't even help them on this
          Plane! LOL!

          Let's face it! Klemp isn't much of a spiritual
          leader, and he doesn't have any charisma! HK
          doesn't write much better than he speaks either!
          Klemp's a dull and dimwitted narcissist and control
          freak with a mean-streak. HK positioned himself
          at the ESC under Darwin and wrote some brochures
          and a book and flew under the radar and over the
          cuckoo's nest.

          Had Darwin known about Klemp's delusions and
          bridge jump, strip tease, and mental institution
          confinement he never would have chosen such an
          unstable replacement! Klemp's unstable and
          anti-social personality is why 99.9% of H.I.s will
          never see an Eight Initiation in this or any lifetime!
          How long does it take, even today, to become an
          ESA and 7th initiate? This is why Klemp instructs
          ECKists to use their "imaginations" more and more!
          Klemp is selfish and fearful and won't share the
          mountain top! This is also why he won't handout
          any 12th Initiations (ECK Masterships). Although,
          Joan was once due to receive one until HK's plan
          was exposed prematurely by Mish's analysis of,
          "Those Wonderful ECK Masters."

          IMO- ECKists would be better off if there was a schism
          where a FEMALE, 7th or 8th Initiate, broke away from
          Klemp and Company and became the new leader. Let's
          face it... EK women do most of the work, are more loving
          and patient, have more empathy, and are better organized
          than most male H.I.s. Women communicate better too!
          Yet, in the religious Boy's Club, women will always be
          second class members! Female ECKists and Female ECK
          Masters (one, Kata Daki) can never become the Mahanta/
          LEM. Really, by not being able to become the LEM also
          means that they (she, Kata Daki) will never become the
          Mahanta either! Yet, ECKists never think about these
          details and facts about their religious dogma because
          they are discouraged (via fear tactics) from thinking about,
          questioning, and discussing such things. EK women (all
          women) must have blind faith and blind trust that the
          male M/LEM (Pope and other male religious leaders) are
          being honest with them when they claim they are not
          "spiritually" capable (due to negative atoms or sin) to
          be the Leader/Mahanta.

          However, ECKists should acknowledge that ECKankar,
          also, believes in a "Garden of Eden" Myth with their own
          Adom (Adam) and Ede (Eve). ECKists need only to reference
          their EK Lexicons and "Polarians." Thus, ECKankar, too, is
          fashioned after other mythical and male dominated religions
          where men are at the top of the religious/decision making
          hierarchy. Kata Daki is a token female EK Master created
          after-the-fact and in memory of Twitchell's sister Kay-Dee.
          Thus, Kata Daki (K.D.) and Kay-Dee!

          Prometheus

          mishmisha wrote:

          What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
          this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
          and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
          pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
          not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
          keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
          present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
          the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
          to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
          shooting themselves in the foot!

          On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
          stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
          It would be interesting to know!! : )

          And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
          their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
          the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

          More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
          to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
          do these H.I.s owe Klemp? When will they ever be free of paying
          homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
          to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
          at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
          The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
          stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
          emperor has no clothes!

          Mish

          KLEMP & PETER SKELSKEY WROTE:
          >
          > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
          > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
          > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
          > both in service and coin."
          >
          ME: This was on a donation brochure that was
          > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
          > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
          > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
          > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
          > don't? It's always a future promise just like
          > all religions hand out.
          >
          > Here's more, to pull at the heart strings
          > of ECKists, from Klemp's partner in crime
          > Peter Skelsky:
          >
          PETER SKELSKEY (PS) WROTE:
          > "Dear Friends in ECK,
          > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
          > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
          > you for all you do everyday, just for love.
          > Thank you for your continuing service and
          > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
          > changing world."
          >
          > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
          > Maybe more initiations is how you and
          > Harry could really show "thanks."
          >
          > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
          > troublesome times, people are searching
          > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
          > in their lives."
          >
          > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
          > them of more money?
          >
          > PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
          > the financial realities of these shifting economic
          > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
          > to maintain our programs for members and
          > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
          > We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
          > requested membership donation at its current
          > amount, which has been in effect since January
          > 1, 1998."
          >
          > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
          > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
          > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
          > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
          > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
          > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
          > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
          > on bad investments?
          >
          > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
          > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
          > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
          > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
          > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
          > their hearts.'
          >
          > ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
          > basically the same thing. That is the trap of
          > religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
          > printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
          > printing his simple-minded and redundant
          > books.
          >
          > PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
          > SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
          > children of God, find their way back home
          > to God."
          >
          > ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
          > to them and what do they expect in return?
          > What is given is an EK membership card and
          > about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
          > quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
          > there are also initiations that trickle down
          > very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
          > expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
          >
          > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
          > have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
          >
          > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
          > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
          > happened after reading a couple of books."
          >
          > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
          > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
          > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
          > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
          >
          > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
          > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
          >
          > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
          > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
          > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
          > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
          >
          > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
          > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
          > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
          > now."
          >
          > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
          > had stayed current with the money your "connection"
          > would have continued just like with the phone
          > company.
          >
          > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
          > other members, I felt love."
          >
          > ME: Any member of any church could attend
          > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
          >
          > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
          > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
          >
          > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
          > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
          > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
          > initiations.
          >
          > PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
          > first came upon and recognized the ECK
          > teachings. As members, we know that each
          > day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
          > forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
          > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
          >
          > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
          > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
          > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
          > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
          > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
          > "different."
          >
          > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
          > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
          > 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
          > to recognize it through the hard times and the
          > good times."
          >
          > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
          > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
          > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
          >
          > PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
          > being so that you can better understand the
          > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
          > lights of God, are going through too. in doing
          > so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
          >
          > ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
          > and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
          > need HK or a religion for that!
          >
          > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
          > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
          > and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
          > we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
          > we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
          > for whatever is given."
          >
          > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
          > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
          > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
          > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
          > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
          > tough--hang onto that money!
          >
          > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
          > blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
          > we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
          > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
          > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
          > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
          > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
          >
          > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
          > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
          > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
          > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
          > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
          >
          > PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
          > and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
          > again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
          > the LEM.
          >
          > ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
          > in you will or estate plans, check the designated
          > box on the donation form and return it in the
          > enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
          > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
          > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
          > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
          > donation via the Internet."
          >
          > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
          > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
          > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
          > even more!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
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