Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Are you kidding?

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hello Igrif, Many Eckists see the world in terms of black and white and of the enlightened (Eckists) vs. the unenlightened (non-Eckists). On HU- Chant, the
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 3 9:20 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Igrif,

      Many Eckists see the world in terms of black and white and of the
      enlightened (Eckists) vs. the unenlightened (non-Eckists). On HU-
      Chant, the unofficial Eckankar Yahoo group site, a "Frank" made a
      statement pointing out this "fact."

      Thank you for the post.

      Prometheus

      "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:
      >There is nothing humanitarian about Eckankar. Officially it
      couldn't care less about the genocide in Sudan, the tidal wave in
      the West Pacific and Indian Oceans or the hurricane in Florida. Why
      could anyone belong to something like that? In the last five years
      Harold's predictions have been (1) things will get worse before they
      get better (no shit?) and (2) everything for everyone will be turned
      upside down. Of course the prescription in both cases is for
      everyone to rally to the Inner Master while all this goes on outside.
      Okay. Let's say you do rely on yourself. It's only common sense.
      But then what? Become the kind of Troglodyte that's leading the way
      for globalization in the world today? Entirely selfishly and
      indescribably incompetently.

      >Eckankar has no consciousness. It begins with awareness and goes on
      from there. The expression of "Total Awareness" is "seeing, knowing,
      ang being". Eckankar has no consciousness and shuns any, because
      then it would have to have a conscience. So, yes. It is the
      Troglodyte pathway for today.

      >So you can say anything you want to about Eckankar and it won't
      make any difference to it at all because the way it's being
      presented and practiced it has no conscience. Again, how do you have
      no conscience? Easy, pretend there's no consciousness involved.
      Start with Total Awareness and talk about only that, focus on only
      that. However, no matter what you do with your attention and naivete
      your deeper mind, inner mind, body mind, and outer mind are still
      there. They don't go away. So though it does succeed in the arena of
      Contemplation it fails in every other. Other than self-service on
      one point only, what's the point of it? There isn't any.

      >Let me explain something to the Eckists reading this. When
      everything is centered in your feeling function and withdrawn from
      your intuitive function you lose your intellectual capacity
      entirely. When you're thinking about Soul, and don't know jack shit
      about yourself or anyone else, what have you got? My advice would be
      to develop some consciousness and get a conscience.

      >Nothing exists but something does not? This is already a principle
      of limitation. You can't develop anything comprehensive or
      progressive from it. Only the philosophy of denial.
    • l2eigh
      Hi Prometheus: So, the Frank who posted on Hu Chant was promoting the idea or complaining about it? -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 3 10:28 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Prometheus:
        So, the "Frank" who posted on Hu Chant was promoting
        the idea or complaining about it?

        -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
        > Hello Igrif,
        >
        > Many Eckists see the world in terms of black and white and of the
        > enlightened (Eckists) vs. the unenlightened (non-Eckists). On HU-
        > Chant, the unofficial Eckankar Yahoo group site, a "Frank" made a
        > statement pointing out this "fact."
        >
        > Thank you for the post.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:
        > >There is nothing humanitarian about Eckankar. Officially it
        > couldn't care less about the genocide in Sudan, the tidal wave in
        > the West Pacific and Indian Oceans or the hurricane in Florida. Why
        > could anyone belong to something like that? In the last five years
        > Harold's predictions have been (1) things will get worse before
        they
        > get better (no ?) and (2) everything for everyone will be
        turned
        > upside down. Of course the prescription in both cases is for
        > everyone to rally to the Inner Master while all this goes on
        outside.
        > Okay. Let's say you do rely on yourself. It's only common sense.
        > But then what? Become the kind of Troglodyte that's leading the way
        > for globalization in the world today? Entirely selfishly and
        > indescribably incompetently.
        >
        > >Eckankar has no consciousness. It begins with awareness and goes
        on
        > from there. The expression of "Total Awareness" is "seeing,
        knowing,
        > ang being". Eckankar has no consciousness and shuns any, because
        > then it would have to have a conscience. So, yes. It is the
        > Troglodyte pathway for today.
        >
        > >So you can say anything you want to about Eckankar and it won't
        > make any difference to it at all because the way it's being
        > presented and practiced it has no conscience. Again, how do you
        have
        > no conscience? Easy, pretend there's no consciousness involved.
        > Start with Total Awareness and talk about only that, focus on only
        > that. However, no matter what you do with your attention and
        naivete
        > your deeper mind, inner mind, body mind, and outer mind are still
        > there. They don't go away. So though it does succeed in the arena
        of
        > Contemplation it fails in every other. Other than self-service on
        > one point only, what's the point of it? There isn't any.
        >
        > >Let me explain something to the Eckists reading this. When
        > everything is centered in your feeling function and withdrawn from
        > your intuitive function you lose your intellectual capacity
        > entirely. When you're thinking about Soul, and don't know jack
        > about yourself or anyone else, what have you got? My advice would
        be
        > to develop some consciousness and get a conscience.
        >
        > >Nothing exists but something does not? This is already a principle
        > of limitation. You can't develop anything comprehensive or
        > progressive from it. Only the philosophy of denial.
      • ewickings@aol.com
        In a message dated 9/3/2005 12:22:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, prometheus_973@yahoo.com writes: On HU-Chant, the unofficial Eckankar Yahoo group site, a
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 3 11:12 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 9/3/2005 12:22:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, prometheus_973@... writes:

          On HU-Chant, the unofficial Eckankar Yahoo group site, a "Frank" made a
          statement pointing out this "fact."
          ***  Hmmm  I was wondering if anyone else from this group was a member of huchat.  ;-)  I've been a lurker for some time and although Frank is one of huchat's moderators, I  have suspected he may be riding the fence when it comes to whether he is truly a member of eckankrap in his heart.   A few others there must have a sore bum by now from ridding the fence!
           
          Was wondering if anyone else also notices how many of the true die hard eckist avoid any real compassion for anything going on in the world, or even to a few of their own huchat members like Bill who ended up on the streets with alcohol issues etc,  but still holds strong that he trusts in the mahanta!   How come someone hasn't offered the guy a safe place to call home for awhile til he gets on his feet? 
           
          Liz
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Igrif, Frank, the Eckist on HU-Chant, was PROMOTING the separatist idea of us vs. them. Once, I heard an ESA, at a major Eck seminar, refer to
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 3 2:44 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Igrif,

            Frank, the Eckist on HU-Chant, was PROMOTING the separatist idea
            of "us" vs. "them." Once, I heard an ESA, at a major Eck
            seminar, refer to non-Eckists as being "Muggles!" Muggles are
            described in Harry Potter as those (humans) Not possessing any
            magical powers! BTW... I didn't let him get away with it and chided
            him for making such an elitist and insensitive statement!

            Prometheus

            "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:
            > Hi Prometheus:
            So, the "Frank" who posted on Hu Chant was promoting the idea or
            complaining about it?


            Prometheus wrote:
            >Hello Igrif,
            Many Eckists see the world in terms of black and white and of the
            enlightened (Eckists) vs. the unenlightened (non-Eckists). On HU-
            Chant, the unofficial Eckankar Yahoo group site, a "Frank" made a
            statement pointing out this "fact."

            Thank you for the post.

            Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Hi Liz, Well, Frank was promoting the enlightened Eckist point of view. I guess he s Not too observant or he would see that higher initiations don t equate
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 3 3:05 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Liz,
              Well, Frank was promoting the "enlightened Eckist" point of view. I
              guess he's Not too observant or he would see that higher initiations
              don't equate to higher consciousness, but do equate to more
              rationalizations and greater delusions. I've seen many non-Eckists
              and 1st initiates with a higher consciousness than most of the 25-40
              year members of Eckankar... including Klemp!

              ewickings wrote:
              > In a message dated 9/3/2005 12:22:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
              prometheus_973@y... writes:
              > On HU-Chant, the unofficial Eckankar Yahoo group site, a "Frank"
              made a statement pointing out this "fact."

              > *** Hmmm I was wondering if anyone else from this group was a
              member of huchat. ;-) I've been a lurker for some time and
              although Frank is one of huchat's moderators, I have suspected he
              may be riding the fence when it comes to whether he is truly a
              member of eckankrap in his heart. A few others there must have a
              sore bum by now from ridding the fence!

              > Was wondering if anyone else also notices how many of the true die
              hard eckist avoid any real compassion for anything going on in the
              world, or even to a few of their own huchat members like Bill who
              ended up on the streets with alcohol issues etc, but still holds
              strong that he trusts in the mahanta! How come someone hasn't
              offered the guy a safe place to call home for awhile til he gets on
              his feet?

              > Liz
            • ctecvie
              Hello Prometheus and Liz, ... #### I saw this, too, and was always wondering. Well, Eckankar offers some explanation to that - but well, it s not too good!
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 4 2:34 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Prometheus and Liz,

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
                > Hi Liz,
                > Well, Frank was promoting the "enlightened Eckist" point of view.
                >I
                > guess he's Not too observant or he would see that higher
                >initiations
                > don't equate to higher consciousness, but do equate to more
                > rationalizations and greater delusions. I've seen many non-Eckists
                > and 1st initiates with a higher consciousness than most of the 25-
                >40
                > year members of Eckankar... including Klemp!

                #### I saw this, too, and was always wondering. Well, Eckankar
                offers some explanation to that - but well, it's not too good!
                During my last two years or so in Eckankar, I knew and understood
                that initiations were given after a certain amount of years. My
                husband had been an HI for some years already, so this made it
                easier to see and know this kind of things.

                >
                > ewickings wrote:
                >
                > > *** Hmmm I was wondering if anyone else from this group was a
                > member of huchat. ;-) I've been a lurker for some time and
                > although Frank is one of huchat's moderators, I have suspected
                >he
                > may be riding the fence when it comes to whether he is truly a
                > member of eckankrap in his heart. A few others there must have a
                > sore bum by now from ridding the fence!

                #### I noticed that, too. There were some weird things going on as
                well. The smoking issue? The misuse of an address to post "negative"
                things?


                > > Was wondering if anyone else also notices how many of the true
                >die
                > hard eckist avoid any real compassion for anything going on in the
                > world, or even to a few of their own huchat members like Bill who
                > ended up on the streets with alcohol issues etc, but still holds
                > strong that he trusts in the mahanta!

                There are more like him on the list. I see the people on huchat as
                human beings struggling with the same issues as the next person,
                enjoying life in the same way as the next person, grieving and
                having fun in exactly the same way as we all, and all this without
                the mahanta in our lives!

                >How come someone hasn't
                > offered the guy a safe place to call home for awhile til he gets
                >on
                > his feet?

                This is a legacy from Eckankar I still am struggling with - to get
                back to "normal" behavior, compassion, and to help when necessary.
                It's so easy to say it's karma and people have to take care of
                themselves and to solve their problems themselves. Of course we can
                only do so much and they have to do the rest by themselves - but we
                can offer a hand all the same. Compassion is something that is only
                talked of in Eckankar - it's much easier and so convenient to get on
                with our life and leave the others struggling where we could help!

                Ingrid
              • ewickings@aol.com
                In a message dated 9/3/2005 6:06:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, prometheus_973@yahoo.com writes: Hi Liz, Well, Frank was promoting the enlightened Eckist
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 4 4:52 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 9/3/2005 6:06:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, prometheus_973@... writes:
                  Hi Liz,
                  Well, Frank was promoting the "enlightened Eckist" point of view. I
                  guess he's Not too observant or he would see that higher initiations
                  don't equate to higher consciousness, but do equate to more
                  rationalizations and greater delusions.
                  ***  Actually if you look in the archives you will notice he does know this.   He is a rebel from the word go...  not that he isn't also a nice guy, he has had the truth right in his face about HIs and Klemp.  Has complained and privately chatted with me about this subject (although that was when I was still an eckie, HI and ESA)  As I recall he received his 3rd a couple years ago (he felt he was being ignored for a very long time prior to that).  Maybe he is struggling with being a good eckie, and dealing with his true nature.  I for one know in my own case I pushed my own true self in the background because of what the eck  teachings preach.  The guidelines and yard stick to tell you how you should act, where you should be in realization etc....   I personally knew many of these members as friends and know way too much about their lives off screen.   I used to openly point out within the group, huchat was THEE most dysfunctional eck group I have/had ever seen.
                   
                   
                  > I've seen many non-Eckists and 1st initiates with a higher consciousness than most of the 25-40 year members of Eckankar... including Klemp! 
                   
                  ***  I noticed this too.  I also pointed this out to other eckist....  you can imagine the look.  Although there are many HIs that held, or still hold our same feelings on this topic!   I sit back and watch and wonder Just how long will it take them to leave too?    I used to comment on huchat,  no one is higher than another.  I think by the end of my membership I was sharing my new found freedom of thought to as many that would catch on to it.    That good ol initiation carrot....  wonder how long it will be tolerated?
                     I had one HI friend that knew I had read Ford's book and was leaving.  He told me he would probably stay a member just to help others wake up.  He had come to the same place many of use find ourselves.....  he wouldn't allow any Master or Mahanta to get in his way of God.  So I watch from my little place in this universe and I root for them!
                   
                  Not to mention I have often wondered which one of you in this ESA group is Frank.  ;-)  That's okay you don't have to tell me!
                   
                  E
                • ewickings@aol.com
                  In a message dated 9/4/2005 5:35:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ... well. The smoking issue? The misuse of an address to post negative things? ***
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 4 5:15 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In a message dated 9/4/2005 5:35:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ctecvie@... writes:


                    >I noticed that, too. There were some weird things going on as
                    well. The smoking issue? The misuse of an address to post "negative"
                    things?
                    ***   Dysfunctional, dysfunctional, dysfunctional!!!   LOL  Actually they all are just experiencing life like the rest of us.   If you have time, which I hope you do not, if you read from that group for any length of time you will see just how deep this dysfunction goes within the group, outside.   Who is have an affair with whom in huchat,  etc.....  doesn't take an outsider to see it.   Anyone else see it as a soap opera?   LOL 

                    >There are more like him on the list. I see the people on huchat as
                    human beings struggling with the same issues as the next person,
                    enjoying life in the same way as the next person, grieving and
                    having fun in exactly the same way as we all, and all this without
                    the mahanta in our lives!
                    ***  The only difference though is they spend years, (as I did) turning it all over to the eck and mahanta only to struggle with the outcome.  Must be Karma if things don't go as they would have hoped....  I can be a control freak, so eventually just said the hell with this crap!  My life has actually become so much calmer, and balanced since I left.  Yet I bet those eckies were hoping I would fall flat on my face, go straight to eckankrap hell, crash and burn. 
                    >This is a legacy from Eckankar I still am struggling with - to get
                    back to "normal" behavior, compassion, and to help when necessary.
                    It's so easy to say it's karma and people have to take care of
                    themselves and to solve their problems themselves.
                    *** Ingrid I experience this behavior still too!   Out 2 years, and still catch myself saying something that sounds eckish.   My husband has been a great sounding board for me.  He'll let me "have it" when it starts to sound eckishly loony.....  but he claims I am getting better! 
                    >Of course we can only do so much and they have to do the rest by themselves - but we can offer a hand all the same.
                    *** Right!  I know what you mean, yet some eckies are so programmed that the first sign of others like them having "Karmic Issues", they act as if it is a disease and they want nothing to do with it, might be contagious.    LOL  well we were taught karma can seem like a disease, follows use from life time to life time till we get it right. 
                    > Compassion is something that is only
                    talked of in Eckankar - it's much easier and so convenient to get on
                    with our life and leave the others struggling where we could help!
                    *** <sigh> sometimes other don't want to be helped.....  many of them deep in the eckankrap teachings. 

                     
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.