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Re: The Sell: "Spiritual Survival in a Changing World"

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  • Non ekster
    Klemp should eat a whole bucket of COIN. LOL As well as all of his inner Circle. That would eksplain why their tummys are so big. Non ekster ; )
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 13, 2009
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      Klemp should eat a whole bucket of COIN. LOL As well as all of his inner Circle. That would eksplain why their tummys are so big.

      Non ekster ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
      > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
      > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
      > both in service and coin."
      >
      > This was on a donation brochure that was
      > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
      > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
      > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
      > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
      > don't? It's always a future promise just like
      > all religions hand out.
      >
      > Here's more, to intimidate ECKists, from
      > Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelsky:
      >
      > "Dear Friends in ECK,
      > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
      > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
      > you for all you do everyday, just for love.
      > Thank you for your continuing service and
      > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
      > changing world."
      >
      > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
      > Maybe more initiations is how you and
      > Harry could really show "thanks."
      >
      > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
      > troublesome times, people are searching
      > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
      > in their lives."
      >
      > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
      > them of more money?
      >
      > PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
      > the financial realities of these shifting economic
      > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
      > to maintain our programs for members and
      > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
      > We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
      > requested membership donation at its current
      > amount, which has been in effect since January
      > 1, 1998."
      >
      > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
      > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
      > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
      > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
      > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
      > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
      > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
      > on bad investments?
      >
      > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
      > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
      > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
      > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
      > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
      > their hearts.'
      >
      > ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
      > basically the same thing. That is the trap of
      > religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
      > printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
      > printing his simple-minded and redundant
      > books.
      >
      > PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
      > SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
      > children of God, find their way back home
      > to God."
      >
      > ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
      > to them and what do they expect in return?
      > What is given is an EK membership card and
      > about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
      > quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
      > there are also initiations that trickle down
      > very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
      > expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
      >
      > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
      > have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
      >
      > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
      > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
      > happened after reading a couple of books."
      >
      > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
      > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
      > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
      > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
      >
      > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
      > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
      >
      > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
      > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
      > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
      > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
      >
      > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
      > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
      > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
      > now."
      >
      > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
      > had stayed current with the money your "connection"
      > would have continued just like with the phone
      > company.
      >
      > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
      > other members, I felt love."
      >
      > ME: Any member of any church could attend
      > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
      >
      > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
      > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
      >
      > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
      > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
      > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
      > initiations.
      >
      > PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
      > first came upon and recognized the ECK
      > teachings. As members, we know that each
      > day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
      > forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
      > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
      >
      > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
      > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
      > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
      > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
      > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
      > "different."
      >
      > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
      > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
      > 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
      > to recognize it through the hard times and the
      > good times."
      >
      > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
      > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
      > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
      >
      > PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
      > being so that you can better understand the
      > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
      > lights of God, are going through too. in doing
      > so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
      >
      > ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
      > and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
      > need HK or a religion for that!
      >
      > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
      > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
      > and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
      > we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
      > we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
      > for whatever is given."
      >
      > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
      > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
      > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
      > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
      > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
      > tough--hang onto that money!
      >
      > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
      > blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
      > we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
      > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
      > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
      > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
      > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
      >
      > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
      > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
      > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
      > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
      > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
      >
      > PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
      > and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
      > again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
      > the LEM.
      >
      > ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
      > in you will or estate plans, check the designated
      > box on the donation form and return it in the
      > enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
      > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
      > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
      > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
      > donation via the Internet."
      >
      > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
      > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
      > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
      > even more!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Non ekster and All, Yes, the Mahanta s love isn t free! ECKists have to pay for that gold-gilded staircase at the ESC (the sin of pride) and for those
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 14, 2009
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        Hello Non ekster and All,
        Yes, the Mahanta's "love" isn't free! ECKists
        have to pay for that gold-gilded staircase at
        the ESC (the sin of pride) and for those undisclosed
        salaries and perks of Klemp and Company.
        But, this is how religious faith and belief work
        for "followers" in this world. ECKankar is the
        Religion of the L&S of God (KAL) Not SUGMAD!

        It's interesting that Klemp's focus is to have
        a free volunteer sales staff in as many locations
        as he can profit from. There is a two pronged
        effort taking place: 1.) Sell EK materials and
        collect the yearly membership fees from newer
        ECKists; 2.) Entise the longer term members
        to buy EK Vahana materials to donate, have
        them trained to do missionary (sales) work
        and collect more monetary donations from
        them while also selling them EK materials for
        their own use, and collect membership fees
        from them so they can maintain their initiation
        status with the belief in the promises of even
        "higher" initiations to come someday in the
        future. Of course, by this time, reality has become
        so distorted that the ego needs to protect itself
        (from Truth) even more so!

        The Stories: The reason that Klemp pushes the
        "EK stories" so much, especially those from Africa,
        is because most ECKists don't have stories and
        "inner" ekperiences! At one time ECKists weren't
        supposed to share these "stories" and dream
        experiences because HK didn't want other ECKists
        to become envious, or think that they weren't as
        advanced. And, how does one explain why a lower
        initiate has more vivid and higher plane experiences
        than Higher Initiates! Plus, how could Klemp control
        what was being said? Thus, HK came out with his
        "approved" stories much like PT "approved" certain
        articles and items. Therefore, those Vahanas (missionaries)
        now have "approved stories" that they can share
        with the public. And, these "approved stories" are
        also used to give other EK chelas and H.I.s belief
        and hope that they too are having "inner" and "outer"
        EK experiences even though they don't remember
        or see them. However, with religious faith and the
        use of the imagination and the ego ECKists can feel
        very self-assured that they are on the "highest" road.
        After all, if Klemp (the M/LEM, i.e. God) tells them
        so, then, it must be the "truth!" What else could it be?

        Prometheus


        "Non ekster" wrote:

        Klemp should eat a whole bucket of COIN. LOL
        As well as all of his inner Circle. That would
        eksplain why their tummys are so big.

        Non ekster ; )

        prometheus wrote:

        The Sell:

        > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
        > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
        > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
        > both in service and coin."
        >
        > This was on a donation brochure that was
        > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
        > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
        > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
        > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
        > don't? It's always a future promise just like
        > all religions hand out.
        >
        > Here's more, to intimidate ECKists (via guilt),
        > by Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelskey [PS]:
        >
        > "Dear Friends in ECK,
        > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
        > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
        > YOU for all YOU do everyday, just for love.
        > Thank YOU for your continuing service and
        > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
        > changing world."
        >
        > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
        > Maybe more initiations is how you and
        > Harry could really show "thanks."
        >
        > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
        > troublesome times, people are searching
        > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
        > in their lives."
        >
        > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
        > them of more money?
        >
        > PS: "Here at ECKankar WE are also experiencing
        > the financial realities of these shifting economic
        > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
        > to maintain our programs for members and
        > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
        > WE are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
        > requested membership donation at its current
        > amount, which has been in effect since January
        > 1, 1998."
        >
        > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
        > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
        > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
        > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
        > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
        > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
        > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
        > on bad investments?
        >
        > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
        > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
        > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
        > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
        > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
        > their hearts.'
        >
        > ME: All preachers and false prophets, throughout
        > time, have said basically the same thing. That is
        > the trap of religion! Perhaps Klemp should save
        > some printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
        > printing his simple-minded and redundant books.
        >
        > PS: "When WE give our gifts of COIN and
        > SERVICE to ECKankar, WE are helping Souls,
        > children of God, find their way back home
        > to God."
        >
        > ME: If non-ECK Souls are "children of God"
        > does this mean HK is the parent, God! And,
        > after one joins ECKankar what is given to them
        > that is different from what other religions give
        > (other than initiations)? What are ECKists told
        > to expect in return? Basically, all that happens
        > is done with one's own imagination. What ECKists
        > are actually given are EK membership cards and
        > about 18 years of Old Discourses, a quarterly
        > pub called The Mystic World, and those EK initiations
        > that trickle down very slowly. However, look at
        > what Klemp expects in return--Coin and Service
        > Forever!
        >
        > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
        > have accepted the GIFT of ECK Membership:
        >
        > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
        > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
        > happened after reading a couple of books."
        >
        > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
        > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
        > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
        > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
        >
        > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
        > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
        >
        > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
        > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
        > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
        > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
        >
        > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
        > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
        > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
        > now."
        >
        > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! Besides, IF
        > Klemp did what he claimed this chela would never
        > have left in the first place! And, if he had stayed
        > current with the membership money his "connection"
        > would have continued just like with the phone
        > company. The Mahanta's "love" isn't free!
        >
        > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
        > other members, I felt love."
        >
        > ME: Any member of any church could attend
        > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
        >
        > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
        > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
        >
        > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
        > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
        > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
        > initiations.
        >
        > PS: "WE all remember how WE felt when WE
        > first came upon and recognized the ECK
        > teachings. As members, WE know that each
        > day the ECK gives US an opportunity to move
        > forward spiritually, IF WE have the awareness
        > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
        >
        > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
        > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
        > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
        > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
        > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
        > "different."
        >
        > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
        > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
        > 'God's love is with YOU all the time. It's up to YOU
        > to recognize it through the hard times and the
        > good times."
        >
        > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
        > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
        > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
        >
        > PS: 'God's love is making YOU more of a spiritual
        > being so that YOU can better understand the
        > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
        > lights of God, are going through too. In doing
        > so, YOU are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
        >
        > ME: "Other lights of God?" So now ECKists are able
        > to "serve" other Souls and not just SERVE Klemp or
        > ECKankar! They don't need HK or a religion for that!
        >
        > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
        > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
        > and count OUR blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'IF
        > WE want to keep the blessings in life coming to US,
        > WE must learn to be grateful for what WE have and
        > for whatever is given."
        >
        > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
        > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
        > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
        > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
        > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
        > tough--hang onto that money!
        >
        > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the MANY
        > BLESSINGS in life is through the ACT of GIVING. When
        > WE respond to a request such as this letter by giving
        > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains US,
        > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to Ourselves.
        > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
        > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
        >
        > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
        > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
        > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
        > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
        > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
        >
        > PS: "WE deeply appreciate YOUR donations and the love
        > and support that YOU give in so many ways. Thank YOU
        > again for YOUR devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
        > the LEM. With love in ECK, Peter Skelskey President"
        >
        > "ps IF YOU want information on including ECKankar
        > in YOU will or estate plans, check the designated
        > box on the donation form and return it in the
        > enclosed envelope. Also, IF YOU would like to make
        > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
        > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
        > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
        > donation via the Internet."
        >
        > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
        > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
        > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
        > even more!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        I noticed that Klemp did another flagrant Bait and Switch. In the following donation request Klemp has Skelskey to, also, mention an increase in membership
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 14, 2009
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          I noticed that Klemp did another
          flagrant Bait and Switch. In the
          following donation request Klemp
          has Skelskey to, also, mention
          an increase in membership fees.

          But, what do ECKists get with
          their memberships? The claim,
          on ECKankar.org, is that the
          chela gets "Advanced Spiritual
          Study with Membership." Where's
          the guarantee for Advanced
          Spiritual "Growth?" But, we all
          know that this is an "implied"
          result and is "conditional" with
          a paid annual membership, as
          well as, a myriad of other Catch-22
          conditions.

          In the following Klemp mentions
          the difference between those who
          just read the EK books and HU and
          those who pay the Membership Fee.

          http://cache.eckankar.org/windows/A-Larger-Room.wmv

          Skelskey: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual
          seekers have accepted the GIFT of ECK
          Membership:

          * In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
          who told me I was spiritually a member. This
          happened after reading a couple of books."

          BTW- Why do ECKists have to pay for a "Gift?"
          This is another Bait and Switch (KAL technique)
          and not a real "gift" is it? There shouldn't be
          "strings attached" to a "gift!"

          And, isn't this odd (or not) that in this Donation
          Letter Klemp (the Mahanta) is affirming, in
          print, that this dream, by a Non-ECKist, meant
          that he was "spiritually a member" after only
          "reading a couple of books." No Membership
          Fee was needed! As I said, this is Bait and Switch!
          He (the Mahanta, Klemp) giveth then taketh
          away! Now you see it, now you don't! it's like
          Magic... Black Magic!

          Prometheus

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Non ekster and All,
          > Yes, the Mahanta's "love" isn't free! ECKists
          > have to pay for that gold-gilded staircase at
          > the ESC (the sin of pride) and for those undisclosed
          > salaries and perks of Klemp and Company.
          > But, this is how religious faith and belief work
          > for "followers" in this world. ECKankar is the
          > Religion of the L&S of God (KAL) Not SUGMAD!
          >
          > It's interesting that Klemp's focus is to have
          > a free volunteer sales staff in as many locations
          > as he can profit from. There is a two pronged
          > effort taking place: 1.) Sell EK materials and
          > collect the yearly membership fees from newer
          > ECKists; 2.) Entise the longer term members
          > to buy EK Vahana materials to donate, have
          > them trained to do missionary (sales) work
          > and collect more monetary donations from
          > them while also selling them EK materials for
          > their own use, and collect membership fees
          > from them so they can maintain their initiation
          > status with the belief in the promises of even
          > "higher" initiations to come someday in the
          > future. Of course, by this time, reality has become
          > so distorted that the ego needs to protect itself
          > (from Truth) even more so!
          >
          > The Stories: The reason that Klemp pushes the
          > "EK stories" so much, especially those from Africa,
          > is because most ECKists don't have stories and
          > "inner" ekperiences! At one time ECKists weren't
          > supposed to share these "stories" and dream
          > experiences because HK didn't want other ECKists
          > to become envious, or think that they weren't as
          > advanced. And, how does one explain why a lower
          > initiate has more vivid and higher plane experiences
          > than Higher Initiates! Plus, how could Klemp control
          > what was being said? Thus, HK came out with his
          > "approved" stories much like PT "approved" certain
          > articles and items. Therefore, those Vahanas (missionaries)
          > now have "approved stories" that they can share
          > with the public. And, these "approved stories" are
          > also used to give other EK chelas and H.I.s belief
          > and hope that they too are having "inner" and "outer"
          > EK experiences even though they don't remember
          > or see them. However, with religious faith and the
          > use of the imagination and the ego ECKists can feel
          > very self-assured that they are on the "highest" road.
          > After all, if Klemp (the M/LEM, i.e. God) tells them
          > so, then, it must be the "truth!" What else could it be?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > "Non ekster" wrote:
          >
          > Klemp should eat a whole bucket of COIN. LOL
          > As well as all of his inner Circle. That would
          > eksplain why their tummys are so big.
          >
          > Non ekster ; )
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          >
          > The Sell:
          >
          > > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
          > > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
          > > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
          > > both in service and coin."
          > >
          > > This was on a donation brochure that was
          > > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
          > > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
          > > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
          > > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
          > > don't? It's always a future promise just like
          > > all religions hand out.
          > >
          > > Here's more, to intimidate ECKists (via guilt),
          > > by Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelskey [PS]:
          > >
          > > "Dear Friends in ECK,
          > > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
          > > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
          > > YOU for all YOU do everyday, just for love.
          > > Thank YOU for your continuing service and
          > > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
          > > changing world."
          > >
          > > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
          > > Maybe more initiations is how you and
          > > Harry could really show "thanks."
          > >
          > > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
          > > troublesome times, people are searching
          > > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
          > > in their lives."
          > >
          > > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
          > > them of more money?
          > >
          > > PS: "Here at ECKankar WE are also experiencing
          > > the financial realities of these shifting economic
          > > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
          > > to maintain our programs for members and
          > > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
          > > WE are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
          > > requested membership donation at its current
          > > amount, which has been in effect since January
          > > 1, 1998."
          > >
          > > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
          > > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
          > > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
          > > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
          > > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
          > > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
          > > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
          > > on bad investments?
          > >
          > > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
          > > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
          > > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
          > > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
          > > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
          > > their hearts.'
          > >
          > > ME: All preachers and false prophets, throughout
          > > time, have said basically the same thing. That is
          > > the trap of religion! Perhaps Klemp should save
          > > some printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
          > > printing his simple-minded and redundant books.
          > >
          > > PS: "When WE give our gifts of COIN and
          > > SERVICE to ECKankar, WE are helping Souls,
          > > children of God, find their way back home
          > > to God."
          > >
          > > ME: If non-ECK Souls are "children of God"
          > > does this mean HK is the parent, God! And,
          > > after one joins ECKankar what is given to them
          > > that is different from what other religions give
          > > (other than initiations)? What are ECKists told
          > > to expect in return? Basically, all that happens
          > > is done with one's own imagination. What ECKists
          > > are actually given are EK membership cards and
          > > about 18 years of Old Discourses, a quarterly
          > > pub called The Mystic World, and those EK initiations
          > > that trickle down very slowly. However, look at
          > > what Klemp expects in return--Coin and Service
          > > Forever!
          > >
          > > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
          > > have accepted the GIFT of ECK Membership:
          > >
          > > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
          > > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
          > > happened after reading a couple of books."
          > >
          > > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
          > > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
          > > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
          > > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
          > >
          > > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
          > > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
          > >
          > > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
          > > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
          > > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
          > > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
          > >
          > > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
          > > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
          > > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
          > > now."
          > >
          > > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! Besides, IF
          > > Klemp did what he claimed this chela would never
          > > have left in the first place! And, if he had stayed
          > > current with the membership money his "connection"
          > > would have continued just like with the phone
          > > company. The Mahanta's "love" isn't free!
          > >
          > > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
          > > other members, I felt love."
          > >
          > > ME: Any member of any church could attend
          > > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
          > >
          > > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
          > > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
          > >
          > > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
          > > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
          > > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
          > > initiations.
          > >
          > > PS: "WE all remember how WE felt when WE
          > > first came upon and recognized the ECK
          > > teachings. As members, WE know that each
          > > day the ECK gives US an opportunity to move
          > > forward spiritually, IF WE have the awareness
          > > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
          > >
          > > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
          > > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
          > > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
          > > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
          > > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
          > > "different."
          > >
          > > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
          > > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
          > > 'God's love is with YOU all the time. It's up to YOU
          > > to recognize it through the hard times and the
          > > good times."
          > >
          > > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
          > > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
          > > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
          > >
          > > PS: 'God's love is making YOU more of a spiritual
          > > being so that YOU can better understand the
          > > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
          > > lights of God, are going through too. In doing
          > > so, YOU are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
          > >
          > > ME: "Other lights of God?" So now ECKists are able
          > > to "serve" other Souls and not just SERVE Klemp or
          > > ECKankar! They don't need HK or a religion for that!
          > >
          > > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
          > > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
          > > and count OUR blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'IF
          > > WE want to keep the blessings in life coming to US,
          > > WE must learn to be grateful for what WE have and
          > > for whatever is given."
          > >
          > > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
          > > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
          > > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
          > > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
          > > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
          > > tough--hang onto that money!
          > >
          > > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the MANY
          > > BLESSINGS in life is through the ACT of GIVING. When
          > > WE respond to a request such as this letter by giving
          > > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains US,
          > > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to Ourselves.
          > > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
          > > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
          > >
          > > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
          > > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
          > > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
          > > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
          > > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
          > >
          > > PS: "WE deeply appreciate YOUR donations and the love
          > > and support that YOU give in so many ways. Thank YOU
          > > again for YOUR devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
          > > the LEM. With love in ECK, Peter Skelskey President"
          > >
          > > "ps IF YOU want information on including ECKankar
          > > in YOU will or estate plans, check the designated
          > > box on the donation form and return it in the
          > > enclosed envelope. Also, IF YOU would like to make
          > > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
          > > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
          > > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
          > > donation via the Internet."
          > >
          > > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
          > > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
          > > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
          > > even more!
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
        • mishmisha9
          What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding and love by asking the chelas to
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 19, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
            this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
            and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
            pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
            not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
            keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
            present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
            the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
            to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
            shooting themselves in the foot!

            On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
            stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
            It would be interesting to know!! : )

            And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
            their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
            the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

            More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
            to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
            do these H.I.s owe Klemp? When will they ever be free of paying
            homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
            to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
            at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
            The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
            stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
            emperor has no clothes!

            Mish

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
            > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
            > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
            > both in service and coin."
            >
            > This was on a donation brochure that was
            > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
            > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
            > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
            > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
            > don't? It's always a future promise just like
            > all religions hand out.
            >
            > Here's more, to intimidate ECKists, from
            > Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelsky:
            >
            > "Dear Friends in ECK,
            > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
            > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
            > you for all you do everyday, just for love.
            > Thank you for your continuing service and
            > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
            > changing world."
            >
            > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
            > Maybe more initiations is how you and
            > Harry could really show "thanks."
            >
            > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
            > troublesome times, people are searching
            > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
            > in their lives."
            >
            > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
            > them of more money?
            >
            > PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
            > the financial realities of these shifting economic
            > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
            > to maintain our programs for members and
            > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
            > We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
            > requested membership donation at its current
            > amount, which has been in effect since January
            > 1, 1998."
            >
            > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
            > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
            > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
            > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
            > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
            > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
            > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
            > on bad investments?
            >
            > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
            > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
            > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
            > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
            > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
            > their hearts.'
            >
            > ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
            > basically the same thing. That is the trap of
            > religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
            > printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
            > printing his simple-minded and redundant
            > books.
            >
            > PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
            > SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
            > children of God, find their way back home
            > to God."
            >
            > ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
            > to them and what do they expect in return?
            > What is given is an EK membership card and
            > about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
            > quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
            > there are also initiations that trickle down
            > very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
            > expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
            >
            > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
            > have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
            >
            > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
            > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
            > happened after reading a couple of books."
            >
            > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
            > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
            > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
            > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
            >
            > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
            > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
            >
            > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
            > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
            > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
            > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
            >
            > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
            > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
            > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
            > now."
            >
            > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
            > had stayed current with the money your "connection"
            > would have continued just like with the phone
            > company.
            >
            > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
            > other members, I felt love."
            >
            > ME: Any member of any church could attend
            > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
            >
            > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
            > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
            >
            > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
            > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
            > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
            > initiations.
            >
            > PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
            > first came upon and recognized the ECK
            > teachings. As members, we know that each
            > day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
            > forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
            > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
            >
            > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
            > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
            > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
            > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
            > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
            > "different."
            >
            > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
            > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
            > 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
            > to recognize it through the hard times and the
            > good times."
            >
            > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
            > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
            > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
            >
            > PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
            > being so that you can better understand the
            > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
            > lights of God, are going through too. in doing
            > so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
            >
            > ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
            > and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
            > need HK or a religion for that!
            >
            > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
            > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
            > and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
            > we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
            > we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
            > for whatever is given."
            >
            > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
            > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
            > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
            > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
            > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
            > tough--hang onto that money!
            >
            > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
            > blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
            > we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
            > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
            > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
            > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
            > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
            >
            > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
            > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
            > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
            > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
            > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
            >
            > PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
            > and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
            > again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
            > the LEM.
            >
            > ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
            > in you will or estate plans, check the designated
            > box on the donation form and return it in the
            > enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
            > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
            > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
            > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
            > donation via the Internet."
            >
            > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
            > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
            > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
            > even more!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Mish and All, It s always interesting to see and analyze Klemp s B.S. from an unclouded and open- minded perspective as a former EKist. Klemp, once
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 19, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Mish and All,
              It's always interesting to see and analyze
              Klemp's B.S. from an unclouded and open-
              minded perspective as a former EKist.

              Klemp, once again, demonstrates his lack
              of empathy for all people as he admits that
              we are in a recession, but has Peter Skelskey
              send out a donation letter to HK's chelas just
              prior to the EK Springtime Seminar.

              Klemp tries to downplay it all by saying that
              there was a higher percentage of people out
              of work then (circa 1930) than today. Then he
              smiles (humor?) at how people view it (recession/
              depression) as long as they're not affected.

              Klemp has no worries because of the millions
              he has safely (and secretly) hidden away. HK's
              definitely better at hiding money than Darwin.
              This was one reason why Klemp moved ECKankar
              to Minnesota since this state doesn't require
              public disclosure of finances from non-profit
              organizations. And, Klemp has had 28 years
              to squirrel money and property away due to
              having complete control over the EK Board and
              all finances. The impact of non-disclosure and
              irresponsible/reckless spending is now having
              more effect during this current economic downturn.

              I wonder how much money ECKankar lost with
              investments? I doubt that even the RESAs will
              be told! But, it does, once again, point out that
              Klemp (the Mahanta) isn't even close to be "All
              Knowing" as he claims when "The Modern Prophet"
              can't even see the future on the lowest Plane of
              all! What good is it for ECKists to contact the
              "INNER MASTER" on the Higher Planes when the
              Inner/Outer Master can't even help them on this
              Plane! LOL!

              Let's face it! Klemp isn't much of a spiritual
              leader, and he doesn't have any charisma! HK
              doesn't write much better than he speaks either!
              Klemp's a dull and dimwitted narcissist and control
              freak with a mean-streak. HK positioned himself
              at the ESC under Darwin and wrote some brochures
              and a book and flew under the radar and over the
              cuckoo's nest.

              Had Darwin known about Klemp's delusions and
              bridge jump, strip tease, and mental institution
              confinement he never would have chosen such an
              unstable replacement! Klemp's unstable and
              anti-social personality is why 99.9% of H.I.s will
              never see an Eight Initiation in this or any lifetime!
              How long does it take, even today, to become an
              ESA and 7th initiate? This is why Klemp instructs
              ECKists to use their "imaginations" more and more!
              Klemp is selfish and fearful and won't share the
              mountain top! This is also why he won't handout
              any 12th Initiations (ECK Masterships). Although,
              Joan was once due to receive one until HK's plan
              was exposed prematurely by Mish's analysis of,
              "Those Wonderful ECK Masters."

              IMO- ECKists would be better off if there was a schism
              where a FEMALE, 7th or 8th Initiate, broke away from
              Klemp and Company and became the new leader. Let's
              face it... EK women do most of the work, are more loving
              and patient, have more empathy, and are better organized
              than most male H.I.s. Women communicate better too!
              Yet, in the religious Boy's Club, women will always be
              second class members! Female ECKists and Female ECK
              Masters (one, Kata Daki) can never become the Mahanta/
              LEM. Really, by not being able to become the LEM also
              means that they (she, Kata Daki) will never become the
              Mahanta either! Yet, ECKists never think about these
              details and facts about their religious dogma because
              they are discouraged (via fear tactics) from thinking about,
              questioning, and discussing such things. EK women (all
              women) must have blind faith and blind trust that the
              male M/LEM (Pope and other male religious leaders) are
              being honest with them when they claim they are not
              "spiritually" capable (due to negative atoms or sin) to
              be the Leader/Mahanta.

              However, ECKists should acknowledge that ECKankar,
              also, believes in a "Garden of Eden" Myth with their own
              Adom (Adam) and Ede (Eve). ECKists need only to reference
              their EK Lexicons and "Polarians." Thus, ECKankar, too, is
              fashioned after other mythical and male dominated religions
              where men are at the top of the religious/decision making
              hierarchy. Kata Daki is a token female EK Master created
              after-the-fact and in memory of Twitchell's sister Kay-Dee.
              Thus, Kata Daki (K.D.) and Kay-Dee!

              NOTE:

              (circa) Monday, April 13, 2009
              Peter Skelskey: "Here at ECKankar We Are
              Also Experiencing the Financial Realities
              of these Shifting Economic Cycles. Cost
              of materials, services, and equipment
              to maintain our programs for members
              and spiritual seekers are increasing week
              by week. We are trying hard to maintain
              our (lifestyle?) Requested Membership
              Donation at its current amount, which
              has been in effect since January 1, 1998."


              Saturday, April 18, 2009
              "Klemp welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
              remarking: 'I am glad that you have come,
              since travel is difficult for many people, with
              the economic downturn. The so-called experts
              don't really know what's going on. After all,
              they didn't seem to see this Recession coming.
              Right now, overall, there is 8% unemployment
              in the U.S. While this is high, unemployment
              during the Great Depression (after the stock
              market crash on October 29, 1929) was much
              higher, 30%. When your neighbor's out of work,
              it's a recession. When you're out of work, it's
              a depression,' Klemp said with a smile."

              Prometheus


              mishmisha wrote:

              What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
              this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
              and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
              pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
              not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
              keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
              present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
              the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
              to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
              shooting themselves in the foot!

              On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
              stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
              It would be interesting to know!! : )

              And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
              their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
              the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

              More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
              to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
              do these H.I.s owe Klemp? When will they ever be free of paying
              homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
              to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
              at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
              The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
              stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
              emperor has no clothes!

              Mish

              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
              > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
              > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
              > both in service and coin."
              >
              > This was on a donation brochure that was
              > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
              > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
              > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
              > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
              > don't? It's always a future promise just like
              > all religions hand out.
              >
              > Here's more, to intimidate ECKists, from
              > Klemp's partner in crime Peter Skelsky:
              >
              > "Dear Friends in ECK,
              > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
              > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
              > you for all you do everyday, just for love.
              > Thank you for your continuing service and
              > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
              > changing world."
              >
              > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
              > Maybe more initiations is how you and
              > Harry could really show "thanks."
              >
              > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
              > troublesome times, people are searching
              > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
              > in their lives."
              >
              > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
              > them of more money?
              >
              > PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
              > the financial realities of these shifting economic
              > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
              > to maintain our programs for members and
              > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
              > We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
              > requested membership donation at its current
              > amount, which has been in effect since January
              > 1, 1998."
              >
              > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
              > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
              > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
              > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
              > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
              > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
              > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
              > on bad investments?
              >
              > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
              > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
              > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
              > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
              > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
              > their hearts.'
              >
              > ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
              > basically the same thing. That is the trap of
              > religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
              > printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
              > printing his simple-minded and redundant
              > books.
              >
              > PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
              > SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
              > children of God, find their way back home
              > to God."
              >
              > ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
              > to them and what do they expect in return?
              > What is given is an EK membership card and
              > about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
              > quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
              > there are also initiations that trickle down
              > very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
              > expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
              >
              > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
              > have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
              >
              > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
              > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
              > happened after reading a couple of books."
              >
              > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
              > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
              > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
              > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
              >
              > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
              > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
              >
              > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
              > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
              > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
              > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
              >
              > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
              > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
              > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
              > now."
              >
              > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
              > had stayed current with the money your "connection"
              > would have continued just like with the phone
              > company.
              >
              > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
              > other members, I felt love."
              >
              > ME: Any member of any church could attend
              > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
              >
              > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
              > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
              >
              > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
              > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
              > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
              > initiations.
              >
              > PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
              > first came upon and recognized the ECK
              > teachings. As members, we know that each
              > day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
              > forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
              > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
              >
              > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
              > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
              > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
              > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
              > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
              > "different."
              >
              > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
              > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
              > 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
              > to recognize it through the hard times and the
              > good times."
              >
              > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
              > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
              > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
              >
              > PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
              > being so that you can better understand the
              > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
              > lights of God, are going through too. in doing
              > so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
              >
              > ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
              > and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
              > need HK or a religion for that!
              >
              > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
              > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
              > and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
              > we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
              > we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
              > for whatever is given."
              >
              > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
              > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
              > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
              > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
              > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
              > tough--hang onto that money!
              >
              > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
              > blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
              > we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
              > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
              > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
              > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
              > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
              >
              > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
              > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
              > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
              > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
              > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
              >
              > PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
              > and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
              > again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
              > the LEM.
              >
              > ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
              > in you will or estate plans, check the designated
              > box on the donation form and return it in the
              > enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
              > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
              > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
              > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
              > donation via the Internet."
              >
              > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
              > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
              > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
              > even more!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Instead of lowering ECKankar s Required Membership Fee/Donation Klemp wants to raise it during a Recession! This action proves that Klemp lacks both love
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 20, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Instead of "lowering" ECKankar's Required
                Membership Fee/Donation Klemp wants
                to "raise" it during a Recession! This action
                proves that Klemp lacks both love and empathy
                (and common sense) regardless of what he
                may say. Actions speak louder than words
                don't they!

                ECKankar hasn't increased the Membership
                Fee since 1998. Klemp, now, feels that this
                is the perfect time to increase it. IF Klemp
                cared about his followers he would be "Lowering"
                this Required Fee (Requested Donation).

                Why should Klemp Lower the Membership Fee?
                Because this Is Not an actual "Donation!" This is
                a "Fee" because it is directly related to maintaining
                EK Initiations!

                When ECKists aren't able to pay the Membership
                Fee their Initiations are put On Hold for up to
                5 years.

                After 5 years of Non-payment ECKists will lose
                all Initiations including the "Inner Initiations"
                too! Therefore, the EK Membership is, actually,
                a Maintenance Fee for the Initiations. However,
                as an added initiation bonus one's name is
                automatically placed into the hopper (computer)
                like a lottery ticket. The "winners" get a "pink
                slip" for that next initiation. Of course, that, also,
                needs to be kept "active" (via money) with the
                Annual Membership/Maintenance Fee.

                I was e-mailed an EK Wisdom Note of Klemp's,
                not too long ago, and read that a 4th Initiate
                let their EK Membership Lapse (due to Non-payment).
                Klemp stated that ECKists need to continue to
                study their Discourses in order to maintain their
                initiations. For around 18 years the limited (old)
                EK Discourses are included with the Membership
                Fee.

                Of course, for those who have paid for and received
                all of the EK Discourses, this "study requirement" to
                maintain one's initiation can no longer be tracked.
                After all, how would Klemp "know" if a chela was
                rereading their Discourses or Not? Okay, HK might
                "know" if it was mentioned in an IRO. This is why he
                wants them "mailed" in order to update your file and
                track what you're doing. In any case this was a threat,
                or warning to ECKists that they need to keep their
                Annual EK Memberships "current" and, thus, pay the
                Amount of Membership Money Due.

                ECK Memberships should be FREE with
                No Strings Attached! But they aren't!

                WHY NOT have ECKists PAY for Subscriptions
                to "The Mystic World," "The H.I. Letter" and
                "The RESA Star" just like they do with the
                "Youth in ECK, Letter of Light!" If the EK
                Youth can pay for their subscriptions with
                their limited resources Why Not have chelas
                pay for these other EK Pubs too! Separate
                these Material costs from the EK Membership
                and Initiations!

                Have H.I. ECKists pay for the training required
                for those Clerical, Initiator, and ESA positions.

                Also, Lower Initiates (chelas) should pay for
                the EK Discourses. One has to pay for them
                anyway if one wants a copy, or an updated
                version.

                Really, there's already an EK Building Fund
                and an EK Missionary Fund that are actual
                Donations "Without Strings Attached!"

                Anyway, there's a lot more that could have
                been changed, for the better, over the years,
                like the way Memberships are set up, but Klemp
                chose Not to. Now, HK wants to add insult to
                injury by Increasing the Cost of something
                (during a recession no less) that should have
                been FREE! When will ECKists wake-up to
                the Nonsense of Klemp & Company? Why
                do H.I.s Need this religion or any religion(!)

                Do ECKists on HU Chat, or Chela Chat dare
                to even discuss these points? It would Never
                happen! They are too fearful and this would
                be seem as "second-guessing" the Mahanta!
                Actually, it's Not the "Mahanta" making these
                "outer" decisions concerning the "outer" org/
                religion of ECKankar... it's the LEM! Strange,
                that lay Catholics and Priests can question the
                decisions/opinions of the Pope and the Church,
                but ECK chelas and H.I.s can't question the
                decisions/opinions of the LEM and ECKankar!

                Prometheus

                Donation Letter, "Spiritual Survival in
                a Changing World:"

                (circa) Monday, April 13, 2009
                Peter Skelskey: "Here at ECKankar We Are
                Also Experiencing the Financial Realities
                of these Shifting Economic Cycles. Cost
                of materials, services, and equipment
                to maintain our programs for members
                and spiritual seekers are increasing week
                by week. We are trying hard to maintain
                our (lifestyle?) Requested Membership
                Donation at its current amount, which
                has been in effect since January 1, 1998."


                EK Springtime Seminar Saturday, April 18, 2009

                "Klemp welcomed the Guests and the Youth,
                remarking: 'I am glad that you have come,
                since travel is difficult for many people, with
                the economic downturn. The so-called experts
                don't really know what's going on. After all,
                they didn't seem to see this Recession coming.
                Right now, overall, there is 8% unemployment
                in the U.S. While this is high, unemployment
                during the Great Depression (after the stock
                market crash on October 29, 1929) was much
                higher, 30%. When your neighbor's out of work,
                it's a recession. When you're out of work, it's
                a depression,' Klemp said with a smile."

                prometheus wrote:

                Hello Mish and All,
                It's always interesting to see and analyze
                Klemp's B.S. from an unclouded and open-
                minded perspective as a former EKist.

                Klemp, once again, demonstrates his lack
                of empathy for all people as he admits that
                we are in a recession, but has Peter Skelskey
                send out a donation letter to HK's chelas just
                prior to the EK Springtime Seminar.

                Klemp tries to downplay it all by saying that
                there was a higher percentage of people out
                of work then (circa 1930) than today. Then he
                smiles (humor?) at how people view it (recession/
                depression) as long as they're not affected.

                Klemp has no worries because of the millions
                he has safely (and secretly) hidden away. HK's
                definitely better at hiding money than Darwin.
                This was one reason why Klemp moved ECKankar
                to Minnesota since this state doesn't require
                public disclosure of finances from non-profit
                organizations. And, Klemp has had 28 years
                to squirrel money and property away due to
                having complete control over the EK Board and
                all finances. The impact of non-disclosure and
                irresponsible/reckless spending is now having
                more effect during this current economic downturn.

                I wonder how much money ECKankar lost with
                investments? I doubt that even the RESAs will
                be told! But, it does, once again, point out that
                Klemp (the Mahanta) isn't even close to be "All
                Knowing" as he claims when "The Modern Prophet"
                can't even see the future on the lowest Plane of
                all! What good is it for ECKists to contact the
                "INNER MASTER" on the Higher Planes when the
                Inner/Outer Master can't even help them on this
                Plane! LOL!

                Let's face it! Klemp isn't much of a spiritual
                leader, and he doesn't have any charisma! HK
                doesn't write much better than he speaks either!
                Klemp's a dull and dimwitted narcissist and control
                freak with a mean-streak. HK positioned himself
                at the ESC under Darwin and wrote some brochures
                and a book and flew under the radar and over the
                cuckoo's nest.

                Had Darwin known about Klemp's delusions and
                bridge jump, strip tease, and mental institution
                confinement he never would have chosen such an
                unstable replacement! Klemp's unstable and
                anti-social personality is why 99.9% of H.I.s will
                never see an Eight Initiation in this or any lifetime!
                How long does it take, even today, to become an
                ESA and 7th initiate? This is why Klemp instructs
                ECKists to use their "imaginations" more and more!
                Klemp is selfish and fearful and won't share the
                mountain top! This is also why he won't handout
                any 12th Initiations (ECK Masterships). Although,
                Joan was once due to receive one until HK's plan
                was exposed prematurely by Mish's analysis of,
                "Those Wonderful ECK Masters."

                IMO- ECKists would be better off if there was a schism
                where a FEMALE, 7th or 8th Initiate, broke away from
                Klemp and Company and became the new leader. Let's
                face it... EK women do most of the work, are more loving
                and patient, have more empathy, and are better organized
                than most male H.I.s. Women communicate better too!
                Yet, in the religious Boy's Club, women will always be
                second class members! Female ECKists and Female ECK
                Masters (one, Kata Daki) can never become the Mahanta/
                LEM. Really, by not being able to become the LEM also
                means that they (she, Kata Daki) will never become the
                Mahanta either! Yet, ECKists never think about these
                details and facts about their religious dogma because
                they are discouraged (via fear tactics) from thinking about,
                questioning, and discussing such things. EK women (all
                women) must have blind faith and blind trust that the
                male M/LEM (Pope and other male religious leaders) are
                being honest with them when they claim they are not
                "spiritually" capable (due to negative atoms or sin) to
                be the Leader/Mahanta.

                However, ECKists should acknowledge that ECKankar,
                also, believes in a "Garden of Eden" Myth with their own
                Adom (Adam) and Ede (Eve). ECKists need only to reference
                their EK Lexicons and "Polarians." Thus, ECKankar, too, is
                fashioned after other mythical and male dominated religions
                where men are at the top of the religious/decision making
                hierarchy. Kata Daki is a token female EK Master created
                after-the-fact and in memory of Twitchell's sister Kay-Dee.
                Thus, Kata Daki (K.D.) and Kay-Dee!

                Prometheus

                mishmisha wrote:

                What a bunch of idiots--HK, Joanie, Peter Skelsky! During
                this financially hard time, they show their lack of understanding
                and love by asking the chelas to dig deeper into their
                pockets! Well, I think increasing membership fees (this is
                not a donation, folks) can be a really good thing. It should
                keep new membership down and cause some drop outs of
                present members, just leaving the eck vampires to feed off
                the blood of their extremely devoted members!! Rather funny
                to see this happening. I think HK and company are once again
                shooting themselves in the foot!

                On another note, I wonder how much eckankar lost in the
                stock market? How much did HK lose? And Peter Skelsky?
                It would be interesting to know!! : )

                And then I wonder how many chelas are losing their jobs,
                their homes, their pensions, health insurance, etc. . . . while
                the mahanta is begging for more money and service?

                More than ever, now is the time for a reality check . . . and
                to let go of the delusional thinking nonsense! How much more
                do these H.I.s owe Klemp? When will they ever be free of paying
                homage to Klemp, paying membership dues, free of obligations
                to Klemp and eckankar? Will it ever be in this lifetime? Nah, not
                at all. Sadly, most do not want to be free and will never leave.
                The truth is that they must be forever followers . . . just can't
                stand on their own even though this is all just a facade. The
                emperor has no clothes!

                Mish

                KLEMP & PETER SKELSKEY WROTE:
                >
                > "Your generous donations help the Mahanta
                > carry the flame of ECK for a bright spiritual
                > future. Thank you for your gifts of love--
                > both in service and coin."
                >
                ME: This was on a donation brochure that was
                > recently sent out. Note that Klemp is asking
                > for BOTH money and servitude! Why can't
                > it be one or the other? How greedy of him!
                > Why does Klemp get a payday and ECKists
                > don't? It's always a future promise just like
                > all religions hand out.
                >
                > Here's more, to pull at the heart strings
                > of ECKists, from Klemp's partner in crime
                > Peter Skelsky:
                >
                PETER SKELSKEY (PS) WROTE:
                > "Dear Friends in ECK,
                > This is a letter of thanks in The Year of
                > Thanksgiving to each and every one of
                > you for all you do everyday, just for love.
                > Thank you for your continuing service and
                > support to the ECK mission in an ever-
                > changing world."
                >
                > ME: For love of initiations you mean!
                > Maybe more initiations is how you and
                > Harry could really show "thanks."
                >
                > PS: "Today, during these uncertain and
                > troublesome times, people are searching
                > for ways to meet the day-to-day challenges
                > in their lives."
                >
                > ME: Correct! So why do you leeches bleed
                > them of more money?
                >
                > PS: "Here at ECKankar we are also experiencing
                > the financial realities of these shifting economic
                > cycles. Cost of materials, services, and equipment
                > to maintain our programs for members and
                > spiritual seekers are increasing week by week.
                > We are trying hard to maintain our (lifestyle?)
                > requested membership donation at its current
                > amount, which has been in effect since January
                > 1, 1998."
                >
                > ME: So, the "requested" (required) membership
                > donation will be increased! Perhaps Klemp needs
                > to tighten his belt! Let's have an audit and look
                > at the books to see where all of that hard earned
                > money can be spent more wisely! Maybe Harry's
                > and Peter's pay and perks can be scaled back too!
                > How much money was lost in the Stock Market
                > on bad investments?
                >
                > PS: "Sri Harold Klemp says in The Awakened Heart,
                > 'Today there is greater need to tell people about
                > ECK, the teachings of the Holy Spirit. The teachings
                > show people how to find love, wisdom, and spiritual
                > freedom. And to find this within themselves, within
                > their hearts.'
                >
                > ME: All preachers, throughout time, have said
                > basically the same thing. That is the trap of
                > religion! Perhaps Klemp should save some
                > printing costs (and trees) and cut back on
                > printing his simple-minded and redundant
                > books.
                >
                > PS: "When we give our gifts of COIN and
                > SERVICE to ECKankar, we are helping Souls,
                > children of God, find their way back home
                > to God."
                >
                > ME: After one joins ECKankar what is given
                > to them and what do they expect in return?
                > What is given is an EK membership card and
                > about 18 years of Old Discourses, and a
                > quarterly pub called The Mystic World. Oh,
                > there are also initiations that trickle down
                > very slowly. However, look at what Klemp
                > expects in return--Coin and Service Forever!
                >
                > PS: "Here are reasons a FEW spiritual seekers
                > have accepted the GIFT of ECK membership:
                >
                > * "In a dream I was accepted by the Mahanta,
                > who told me I was spiritually a member. This
                > happened after reading a couple of books."
                >
                > ME: Some gift! What happens when a H.I.
                > doesn't pay the piper (Klemp's membership
                > fee)? Are they still "spiritually a member" or
                > do they lose initiations? They lose them!
                >
                > * "I've been seeking something spiritual for
                > over twenty years, and it connected with me."
                >
                > ME: That happened to me too! But I eventually
                > learned that Klemp had nothing to do with it.
                > It was Soul and the Holy Spirit! No middleman
                > needed to take the credit or to dodge the blame!
                >
                > * "I got strong Darshan from Sri Harold Klemp.
                > I was a Third Initiate and let my membership
                > lapse for over five years. I feel the call to rejoin
                > now."
                >
                > ME: Right! Rejoin as a First Initiate! And, if you
                > had stayed current with the money your "connection"
                > would have continued just like with the phone
                > company.
                >
                > * "After attending the Worldwide and meeting
                > other members, I felt love."
                >
                > ME: Any member of any church could attend
                > a convention and say the same thing! Duh!
                >
                > * "I saw the Master's love in the Ask the Master
                > books--how he honors our spiritual freedom."
                >
                > ME: If ECKists had "spiritual freedom" they
                > wouldn't need Klemp, or need to be servants
                > and pay him money in the hopes of receiving
                > initiations.
                >
                > PS: "We all remember how we felt when we
                > first came upon and recognized the ECK
                > teachings. As members, we know that each
                > day the ECK gives us an opportunity to move
                > forward spiritually, IF we have the awareness
                > to see the GIFT that is being offered."
                >
                > ME: Okay, what's the "gift" other than a worthless
                > initiation? Besides, it now takes 35+ years for
                > a 7th and that's it! It's Bait and Switch! It took
                > years to discover the Truth of the Con! We were
                > gullible and trusting because ECKankar was
                > "different."
                >
                > PS "In How to Survive Spiritually in Our Times,
                > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 16, Sri Harold writes,
                > 'God's love is with you all the time. It's up to you
                > to recognize it through the hard times and the
                > good times."
                >
                > ME: How profound! Been there, done that, bought
                > the tee shirt! However, Klemp has nothing to do
                > with God's love or the Holy Spirit--It's You!
                >
                > PS: 'God's love is making you more of a spiritual
                > being so that you can better understand the
                > conditions and situations that other Souls, other
                > lights of God, are going through too. in doing
                > so, you are able to SERVE them and all life better.'
                >
                > ME: So now ECKists are able to "serve" other Souls
                > and not just SERVE Klemp or ECKankar! They don't
                > need HK or a religion for that!
                >
                > PS: "During this special year, The Year of Thanksgiving,
                > let's remember to keep our attention on God's love
                > and count our blessings. Sri Harold has written, 'if
                > we want to keep the blessings in life coming to us,
                > we must learn to be grateful for what we have and
                > for whatever is given."
                >
                > ME: Wow! More profound words by an 8th Initiate!
                > Doesn't all of this sound familiar? Count those blessings!
                > Is Klemp the "God" Peter is talking of? Where's SUGMAD?
                > Hmmm. I wonder how ECKist can show their graditude
                > for those blessings? Wait! What blessings? Things are
                > tough--hang onto that money!
                >
                > PS: "One way to show OUR gratitude for the many
                > blessings in life is through the act of giving. When
                > we respond to a request such as this letter by giving
                > back to the ECK, which nourishes and sustains us,
                > WE are also giving an immeasurable gift to ourselves.
                > We are expressing OUR gratitude and demonstrating
                > OUR trust in the BOUNTY of Divine Spirit."
                >
                > ME: So, ECKists must give more money as payment
                > for their blessings! Do they, also, get refunds when
                > there are No Blessings? No Way! Religion isn't a two-
                > way street, it's one-way. Money goes from the bottom
                > upwards while the sh_t rolls down-hill.
                >
                > PS: "We deeply appreciate your donations and the love
                > and support that you give in so many ways. Thank you
                > again for your devotion to the mission of the Mahanta,
                > the LEM.
                >
                > ps IF you want information on including ECKankar
                > in you will or estate plans, check the designated
                > box on the donation form and return it in the
                > enclosed envelope. Also, if you would like to make
                > a donation via the ECKankar Web site, visit www.
                > Eckankar.org, click 'Members Area,' log on, and
                > scroll down to 'Donation Form' to make a secure
                > donation via the Internet."
                >
                > ME: What can I say? ECKankar is like every other
                > religion! Why we didn't see this early on still amazes
                > me today! Why H.I.s still don't see it amazes me
                > even more!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
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