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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 1376

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  • Sharon
    Back at alt.religion. eckankar years ago, an eckist posted just about the most ridiculous ecksplanation for the plagiarism that I ve ever heard - Twitch wrote
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 11, 2009
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      Back at alt.religion. eckankar years ago, an eckist posted just about the most ridiculous ecksplanation for the plagiarism that I've ever heard - Twitch wrote somewhere that a "soul" could run more than one body, so perhaps Twitch was actually running Julian Johnson's body when he wrote "Path of the Masters", therefore there's no plagiarism because you can't plagiarize yourself!   Isn't that a hoot!

      There are a few "newer" plagiarism examples in the files over at ET that may not be posted anywhere else:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/files

      Someone posted awhile back that they'd spotted material in the SKS that came from Ouspensky/Gurdjieff but their books were in storage - if anyone's interesting in comparing the books let me know and I'll look up more specific info.

      Have a great weekend, everyone!

      Sharon
      ______________________________________________________________
      1a. Rebazar Plagiarized Too!
      Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@...
      prometheus_973
      Date: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:31 pm ((PDT))

      Did the (fake) ECKankar master of Twitchell,
      Rebazar Tarzs, plagiarize Julian Johnson's
      "The Path of the Master's," or did Julian
      Johnson plagiarize Rebazar?

      What has Rebazar written without Twitchell's
      help and when was it written? Nothing was
      heard from Rebazar prior to when... 1969?
      It could be that Twitchell mentioned RT in
      his Orion articles, but PT doesn't have RT
      actually speaking in his books prior to 1969.

      Rebazar states (according to Paul Twitchell,
      page 131, "The Far Country"):

      "There is little wonder that men take to
      religion, even if they have to invent one."

      ME: Like PT did!

      RT: "Voltaire said that religion is the solace
      of the weak."

      ME: I agree!

      RT: "Nietszche repeated this in his writings
      and talks. But be that as it may, the weak
      and the trapped need some support, and
      far be it from me to deny them. I wouldn't
      take their religion away, even if I knew full
      well that it could be done."

      ME: I'm attempting to show ECKists the
      Truth rather than religious lies and myth.

      RT: "Religion has always been a haven for
      the millions who mourn and suffer. It is
      undeniable that it has been generally the
      unhappy who have sought relief in religion;
      any religion which happened to be near them,
      and who can blame them. It's like a drowning
      man grasping at a straw."

      ME: Actually, there are also those seeking
      God and the spiritual life and the answers
      to the unknown.

      However, what's even more interesting is
      that these same exact words, spoken by
      ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs (The Torchbearer
      of ECKankar) via Paul Twitchell, are in the
      first paragraph of Chapter 2 in "The Path of
      the Masters" (1939 copyright).

      So who spoke these words first? Was it
      Julian P. Johnson in 1939, or was it Rebazar
      Tarzs via Paul Twitchell in 1970? Or, did
      Rebazar say these same exact words prior
      to 1939 and Johnson was somehow able
      to retrieve and copy them?

      Nah! Twitchell was a liar and a plagiarist!
      PT created Rebazar, as an alter ego, in order
      to initiate himself, and create his own religion!

      Prometheus


      Hello Whitemoby,
      Welcome to the site. I'll give you some
      info on PT's plagiarized "Flute" passages
      and point you toward more.

      First, check out the LINKS section, here
      on this site, for plagiarisms. Also, there's
      a LINK toward the bottom of the page with
      "Flute" info.

      Second, buy a SCP Journal-There's a
      LINK that tells about it and takes you
      to that site where you can purchase
      one (it's very inexpensive). Actually,
      this would, even, be a great historic
      reference/resource for ECKists too
      because of the early info given (dates,
      etc.), and the pics of Gail and Paul
      are very nice!

      Third, go to the FILES section here
      (for members only) and read or skim
      through Chapters 6-10 of "Confessions
      of a God Seeker" for more info on PT's
      plagiarisms.

      Fourth, I'll look through my copy of
      "Flute" and see if I can find something.

      Okay- On page 47, bottom, of "Flute"
      (1970 1st printing) Paul states,

      "Each generally knows something different
      about Truth than the other will know.
      For example: Bacon, Spinoza, Voltaire,
      Emerson, Berkeley, Kant, Hegel, Spencer,
      Schopenhauer and Darwin contributed
      something to the knowledge of Truth
      because the quality of matter in a given
      place and under given conditions is
      limited."

      This same quote is on page 9 (in my
      copy) of "The Path of the Masters."
      It's word for word. The only difference
      is that Twit omitted Nietzsche's name,
      however, PT had all of the other names
      in the same order as they are listed in
      "The Path of the Masters!"

      It should be pointed out, too, that the
      author of "The Path of the Masters"
      (1939 copyright), Julian P. Johnson, was
      only giving his "opinion" in this quote
      that Twitchell used. Thus, there is No
      real universal "Truth" being "compiled,"
      and passed on to ECKists (by Twit) as
      Klemp suggests. These comments are
      only one's (Johnson's) personal opinions/
      view. This is why the argument of Twitchell
      being a "Compiler of Truth" doesn't hold
      water!

      It appears Twitchell was doing a rewrite
      of "The Flute of God" while, simultaneously,
      writing "The Far Country" in 1970. The
      copyright of "Flute" is 1969 but the first
      printing was 1970.

      Thus, on page 131 of "The Far Country,"
      PT (RT) decides to discuss Nietzsche (the
      name he omitted from the above mentioned
      plagiarism in "Flute").

      These same quotes (supposedly being
      said by Rebazar Tarzs) beginning with:

      'There is little wonder...' and 'Religion has
      always been...' are mentioned word for word
      at the beginning of Chapter 2 in "The Path
      of the Masters."

      BTW- In Chapter 6, page 75, of "Flute" there
      is another plagiarism. The paragraph starts
      out with, "The Supreme has been called various
      names in different languages, but it is known
      to those who recognize the real wisdom as HU,
      the name of the nameless one."

      This quote, and more, are from the 1923
      copyright, pages 64-65, of "The Mysticism
      of Sound" by Hazrat Inayat Khan.

      Also, I found it very interesting that Klemp
      used many parts of "The Flute of God" for
      his September 2004 "H.I. Letter:" Chapter 8,
      "The Appeal of Man to God;" Chapter 9, "The
      Shape of the Altar;" Chapter 12, "The Borders
      of Heaven."

      Anyway, I hope this information has helped
      you with your research.

      Prometheus


      whitemoby22 wrote:

      I am researching Twitchell's "Flute of God".
      I am searching for plagarized passages.
      Can anyone here provide examples?
      Or point me in the right direction?

      Thanks...

    • prometheus_973
      Hello Sharon and All, Yes, ECKists do tend to grab-at-straws for ekplanations in defense of their fake religion. However, if a Soul could run two bodies,
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 11, 2009
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        Hello Sharon and All,
        Yes, ECKists do tend to grab-at-straws
        for ekplanations in defense of their fake
        religion. However, if a Soul could run "two"
        bodies, simultaneously, on the physical plane
        (as Twitch one mentioned) then they would
        be opposites. One would be a positive one
        and the other would be negative. Twit's Soul,
        would, thus, Not have been Julian P. Johnson!
        However, he might have been Stalin!

        Prometheus


        Sharon wrote:

        Back at alt.religion. eckankar years ago,
        an eckist posted just about the most ridiculous
        ecksplanation for the plagiarism that I've ever
        heard - Twitch wrote somewhere that a "soul"
        could run more than one body, so perhaps Twitch
        was actually running Julian Johnson's body when
        he wrote "Path of the Masters", therefore there's
        no plagiarism because you can't plagiarize yourself!  
        Isn't that a hoot!

        There are a few "newer" plagiarism examples
        in the files over at ET that may not be posted
        anywhere else:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
        eckankartruth/files

        Someone posted awhile back that they'd spotted
        material in the SKS that came from Ouspensky/
        Gurdjieff but their books were in storage - if
        anyone's interesting in comparing the books
        let me know and I'll look up more specific info.

        Have a great weekend, everyone!

        Sharon
        ______________________________________________________________

        Rebazar Plagiarized Too!

        Prometheus wrote:

        > Did the (fake) ECKankar master of Twitchell,
        > Rebazar Tarzs, plagiarize Julian Johnson's
        > "The Path of the Master's," or did Julian
        > Johnson plagiarize Rebazar?
        >
        > What has Rebazar written without Twitchell's
        > help and when was it written? Nothing was
        > heard from Rebazar prior to when... 1969?
        > It could be that Twitchell mentioned RT in
        > his Orion articles, but PT doesn't have RT
        > actually speaking in his books prior to 1969.
        >
        > Rebazar states (according to Paul Twitchell,
        > page 131, "The Far Country"):
        >
        > "There is little wonder that men take to
        > religion, even if they have to invent one."
        >
        > ME: Like PT did!
        >
        > RT: "Voltaire said that religion is the solace
        > of the weak."
        >
        > ME: I agree!
        >
        > RT: "Nietszche repeated this in his writings
        > and talks. But be that as it may, the weak
        > and the trapped need some support, and
        > far be it from me to deny them. I wouldn't
        > take their religion away, even if I knew full
        > well that it could be done."
        >
        > ME: I'm attempting to show ECKists the
        > Truth rather than religious lies and myth.
        >
        > RT: "Religion has always been a haven for
        > the millions who mourn and suffer. It is
        > undeniable that it has been generally the
        > unhappy who have sought relief in religion;
        > any religion which happened to be near them,
        > and who can blame them. It's like a drowning
        > man grasping at a straw."
        >
        > ME: Actually, there are also those seeking
        > God and the spiritual life and the answers
        > to the unknown.
        >
        > However, what's even more interesting is
        > that these same exact words, spoken by
        > ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs (The Torchbearer
        > of ECKankar) via Paul Twitchell, are in the
        > first paragraph of Chapter 2 in "The Path of
        > the Masters" (1939 copyright).
        >
        > So who spoke these words first? Was it
        > Julian P. Johnson in 1939, or was it Rebazar
        > Tarzs via Paul Twitchell in 1970? Or, did
        > Rebazar say these same exact words prior
        > to 1939 and Johnson was somehow able
        > to retrieve and copy them?
        >
        > Nah! Twitchell was a liar and a plagiarist!
        > PT created Rebazar, as an alter ego, in order
        > to initiate himself, and create his own religion!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > Hello Whitemoby,
        > Welcome to the site. I'll give you some
        > info on PT's plagiarized "Flute" passages
        > and point you toward more.
        >
        > First, check out the LINKS section, here
        > on this site, for plagiarisms. Also, there's
        > a LINK toward the bottom of the page with
        > "Flute" info.
        >
        > Second, buy a SCP Journal-There's a
        > LINK that tells about it and takes you
        > to that site where you can purchase
        > one (it's very inexpensive). Actually,
        > this would, even, be a great historic
        > reference/resource for ECKists too
        > because of the early info given (dates,
        > etc.), and the pics of Gail and Paul
        > are very nice!
        >
        > Third, go to the FILES section here
        > (for members only) and read or skim
        > through Chapters 6-10 of "Confessions
        > of a God Seeker" for more info on PT's
        > plagiarisms.
        >
        > Fourth, I'll look through my copy of
        > "Flute" and see if I can find something.
        >
        > Okay- On page 47, bottom, of "Flute"
        > (1970 1st printing) Paul states,
        >
        > "Each generally knows something different
        > about Truth than the other will know.
        > For example: Bacon, Spinoza, Voltaire,
        > Emerson, Berkeley, Kant, Hegel, Spencer,
        > Schopenhauer and Darwin contributed
        > something to the knowledge of Truth
        > because the quality of matter in a given
        > place and under given conditions is
        > limited."
        >
        > This same quote is on page 9 (in my
        > copy) of "The Path of the Masters."
        > It's word for word. The only difference
        > is that Twit omitted Nietzsche's name,
        > however, PT had all of the other names
        > in the same order as they are listed in
        > "The Path of the Masters!"
        >
        > It should be pointed out, too, that the
        > author of "The Path of the Masters"
        > (1939 copyright), Julian P. Johnson, was
        > only giving his "opinion" in this quote
        > that Twitchell used. Thus, there is No
        > real universal "Truth" being "compiled,"
        > and passed on to ECKists (by Twit) as
        > Klemp suggests. These comments are
        > only one's (Johnson's) personal opinions/
        > view. This is why the argument of Twitchell
        > being a "Compiler of Truth" doesn't hold
        > water!
        >
        > It appears Twitchell was doing a rewrite
        > of "The Flute of God" while, simultaneously,
        > writing "The Far Country" in 1970. The
        > copyright of "Flute" is 1969 but the first
        > printing was 1970.
        >
        > Thus, on page 131 of "The Far Country,"
        > PT (RT) decides to discuss Nietzsche (the
        > name he omitted from the above mentioned
        > plagiarism in "Flute").
        >
        > These same quotes (supposedly being
        > said by Rebazar Tarzs) beginning with:
        >
        > 'There is little wonder...' and 'Religion has
        > always been...' are mentioned word for word
        > at the beginning of Chapter 2 in "The Path
        > of the Masters."
        >
        > BTW- In Chapter 6, page 75, of "Flute" there
        > is another plagiarism. The paragraph starts
        > out with, "The Supreme has been called various
        > names in different languages, but it is known
        > to those who recognize the real wisdom as HU,
        > the name of the nameless one."
        >
        > This quote, and more, are from the 1923
        > copyright, pages 64-65, of "The Mysticism
        > of Sound" by Hazrat Inayat Khan.
        >
        > Also, I found it very interesting that Klemp
        > used many parts of "The Flute of God" for
        > his September 2004 "H.I. Letter:" Chapter 8,
        > "The Appeal of Man to God;" Chapter 9, "The
        > Shape of the Altar;" Chapter 12, "The Borders
        > of Heaven."
        >
        > Anyway, I hope this information has helped
        > you with your research.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > whitemoby22 wrote:
        >
        > I am researching Twitchell's "Flute of God".
        > I am searching for plagarized passages.
        > Can anyone here provide examples?
        > Or point me in the right direction?
        >
        > Thanks...
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        I thought the running of more than one body might explain how Paul Twitchell went to France & India :) However it s even more a stretch (IMO) the example you
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 11, 2009
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          I thought the running of more than one body might
          explain how Paul Twitchell went to France & India :)

          However it's even more a stretch (IMO) the example
          you just cited. If Paul T. was in Julian Johnson's body,
          I'd call that possession!

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Sharon <brighttigress@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 1:59 pm
          Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 1376








          Back at alt.religion. eckankar years ago, an eckist posted just about
          the most ridiculous ecksplanation for the plagiarism that I've ever
          heard - Twitch wrote somewhere that a "soul" could run more than one
          body, so perhaps Twitch was actually running Julian Johnson's body when
          he wrote "Path of the Masters", therefore there's no plagiarism because
          you can't plagiarize yourself!   Isn't that a hoot!

          There are a few "newer" plagiarism examples in the files over at ET
          that may not be posted anywhere else: 
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/files

          Someone posted awhile back that they'd spotted material in the SKS that
          came from Ouspensky/Gurdjieff but their books were in storage - if
          anyone's interesting in comparing the books let me know and I'll look
          up more specific info.

          Have a great weekend,
          everyone!

          Sharon
          ______________________________________________________________
          1a. Rebazar Plagiarized Too!
          Posted by: "p
          rometheus_973" prometheus_973@...
          prometheus_973
          Date: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:31 pm ((PDT))

          Did the (fake) ECKankar master of Twitchell,
          Rebazar Tarzs, plagiarize Julian Johnson's
          "The Path of the Master's," or did Julian
          Johnson plagiarize Rebazar?

          What has Rebazar written without Twitchell's
          help and when was it written? Nothing was
          heard from Rebazar prior to when... 1969?
          It could be that Twitchell mentioned RT in
          his Orion articles, but PT doesn't have RT
          actually speaking in his books prior to 1969.

          Rebazar states (according to Paul Twitchell,
          page 131, "The Far Country"):

          "There is little wonder that men take to
          religion, even if
          they have to invent one."

          ME: Like PT did!

          RT: "Voltaire said that religion is the solace
          of the weak."

          ME: I agree!

          RT: "Nietszche repeated this in his writings
          and talks. But be that as it may, the weak
          and the trapped need some support, and
          far be it from me to deny them. I wouldn't
          take their religion away, even if I knew full
          well that it could be done."

          ME: I'm attempting to show ECKists the
          Truth rather than religious lies and myth.

          RT: "Religion has always been a haven for
          the millions who mourn and suffer. It is
          undeniable that it has been generally the
          unhappy who have sought relief in religion;
          any religion which happened to be near them,
          and who can blame them. It's like a drowning
          man grasping at a straw."

          M
          E: Actually, there are also those seeking
          God and the spiritual life and the answers
          to the unknown.

          However, what's even
          more interesting is
          that these same exact words, spoken by
          ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs (The Torchbearer
          of ECKankar) via Paul Twitchell, are in the
          first paragraph of Chapter 2 in "The Path of
          the Masters" (1939 copyright).

          So who spoke these words first? Was it
          Julian P. Johnson in 1939, or was it Rebazar
          Tarzs via Paul Twitchell in 1970? Or, did
          Rebazar say these same exact words prior
          to 1939 and Johnson was somehow able
          to retrieve and copy them?

          Nah! Twitchell was a liar and a plagiarist!
          PT created Rebazar, as an alter ego, in order
          to initiate himself, and create his own religion!

          Prometheus


          Hello Whitemoby,
          Welcome to the site. I'll give you some
          info on PT's plagiarized "Flute" passages
          and point you toward more.

          First, check out the LINKS section, here
          on this site, for plagiarisms. Also, there's
          a LINK toward the bottom of the page with
          "Flute"
          info.

          Second, buy a SCP Journal-There's a
          LINK that tells about it and takes you
          to that site where you can purchase
          one (it's very inexpensive). Actually,
          this would, even, be a great historic
          reference/resource for ECKists too
          because of the early info given (dates,
          etc.), and the pics of Gail and Paul
          are very nice!

          Third, go to the FILES section here
          (for members only) and read or skim
          0Athrough Chapters 6-10 of "Confessions

          of a God Seeker" for more info on PT's
          plagiarisms.

          Fourth, I'll look through my copy of
          "Flute" and see if I can find something.

          Okay- On page 47, bottom, of "Flute"
          (1970 1st printing) Paul states,

          "Each generally knows something different
          about Truth than the other will know.
          For example: Bacon, Spinoza, Voltaire,
          Emerson, Berkeley, Kant, Hegel, Spencer,
          Schopenhauer and Darwin contributed
          something to the knowledge of Truth
          because
          the quality of matter in a given
          place and under given conditions is
          limited."

          This same quote is on page 9 (in my
          copy) of "The Path of the Masters."
          It's word for word. The only difference
          is that Twit omitted Nietzsche's name,
          however, PT had all of the other names
          in the same order as they are listed in
          "The Path of the Masters!"

          It should be pointed out, too, that the
          author of "The Path of the Masters"
          (1939 copyright), Julian P. Johnson, was
          only giving his "opinion" in this quote
          that Twitchell used. Thus, there is No
          real universal "Truth" being "compiled,"
          and passed on to ECKists (by Twit) as
          Klemp suggests. These comments are
          only one's (Johnson's) personal opinions/
          view. This is why the argument of Twitchell
          being a "Compiler of Truth" doesn't hold
          water!

          It appears Twitchell was doing a rewrite
          of "The Flute of God" while, simultaneously,
          writing "The Far
          Country" in 1970. The
          copyright of "Flute"
          is 1969 but the first
          printing was 1970.

          Thus, on page 131 of "The Far Country,"
          PT (RT) decides to discuss Nietzsche (the
          name he omitted from the above mentioned
          plagiarism in "Flute").

          These same quotes (supposedly being
          said by Rebazar Tarzs) beginning with:

          'There is little wonder...' and 'Religion has
          always been...' are mentioned word for word
          at the beginning of Chapter 2 in "The Path
          of the Masters."

          BTW- In Chapter 6, page 75, of "Flute" there
          is another plagiarism. The paragraph starts
          out with, "The Supreme has been called various
          names in different languages, but it is known
          to those who recognize the real wisdom as HU,
          the name of the nameless one."

          This quote, and more, are from the 1923
          copyright, pages 64-65, of "The Mysticism
          of Sound" by Hazrat Inayat Khan.

          Also, I found it very interesting that
          Klemp
          used many parts of "The Flute of God" for
          his September 2004 "H.I. Letter:" Chapter 8,
          "The Appeal of Man to God;" Chapter 9, "The
          Shape of the Altar;" Chapter 12, "The Borders
          of Heaven."

          Anyway, I hope this information has helped
          you with your research.

          Prometheus


          whitemoby22 wrote:

          I am researching Twitchell's "Flute of God".
          I am searching for plagarized passages.
          Can anyone here provide examples?
          Or point me in the right direction?

          Thanks...
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