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Re: Klemp (God, the Mahanta) and the ECKankar Misdirection

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Non-ekster, I think that your right-on! Cognitive Dissonance has proven to be a catalyst for passivity, rationalizing, and delusional thinking with
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 16, 2009
      Hello Non-ekster,
      I think that your right-on! Cognitive
      Dissonance has proven to be a catalyst
      for passivity, rationalizing, and delusional
      thinking with ECKists. The EK "As If"
      technique is one such self-brainwashing
      method that is accepted by all and is
      used daily!

      Cognitive is defined as: "2. of or pertaining
      to the mental processes of perception,
      memory, judgment, and reasoning..."

      Cognitive Dissonance is defined as:
      "anxiety that results from simultaneously
      holding contradictory or incompatible
      attitudes, beliefs, or the like..."

      Example: ECKankar is/was seen by many
      long-time Higher Initiates as a "spiritual
      path" versus a religion. However, Klemp
      without a doubt has made ECKankar into
      a religion. There are ECK Worship Services,
      EK Choirs, EK Hymnals, Clerics, Prayer, etc.
      And, let's not forget: "ECKankar, Religion
      of the Light and Sound of God."

      It always made me wonder, "Why that title!"
      If the org is registered as a religion, for tax
      benefits, Why is it necessary to call it a "Religion"
      or to mention "God!" If anything, SUGMAD
      should be mentioned instead of the name God!
      Let's not confuse SUGMAD with the 2nd or 4th
      Plane "God." Is Klemp embarrassed to mention
      SUGGIE's name? I think Klemp just wants to fit-in
      with the other preachers in the local community
      instead of being "out there" and more controversial
      like he requires of his Vahanas. Where is the "Truth"
      in ECKankar's advertising?

      This just goes to show that Klemp is Not Who/What
      he claims to be... he's a fraud! Klemp's all talk and
      is more flawed than the average person. HK's a wimpy,
      passive/aggressive, narcissistic, preachy, and self-serving
      bullshitter!

      Prometheus


      Non ekster wrote:

      Hmmm, this quote really got me thinking
      about why intelligent people keep doing
      this year after year.

      "[HK]: "What is the point, for example, IF
      someone keeps forgetting them, both inner
      and outer, then to end up doubting the reality
      of the Mahanta, the LEM?"

      [P]: What happens when the ECKist forgets or
      is misdirected from the "reality" of Soul? They
      become Co-dependent "Co-workers" of another
      religious scam like the one they left! Why does
      Klemp teach dependence upon himself, the
      Mahanta/LEM (i.e. God), instead of Self-Reliance?
      Well, isn't that what the other Religions do, except,
      by other means and methods!"


      There is an explanation found in Social Psychology
      that has to do with Cognitive Dissonance and intrinsic/
      extrinsic motivation. Here's how it works. If someone
      is asked to do a boring task or even something that
      they don't really want to do and are given a very minimal
      reward, then they will often be convinced that they
      did it because they must have done so based on their
      own intrinsic motivation, not because they were directed
      by some outside force or something extrinsic to
      themselves. The more often someone repeats the task,
      the more convinced they are that the motivation is intrinsic.
      It is a very insidious thing, especially in Cults like eckankar.
      Decades go by, and people just keep doing it, even if
      they are not getting much out of it. In fact, the will to
      stop is diminished, and may instead almost become
      an obsession.

      The feeling of Cognitive Dissonance can be very
      overwhelming for some people, especially when
      explicit and implicit threats are thrown into the
      mix. Practices that involve going into trance states
      also reinforce sometimes the most inane behavior,
      and encourage the Cult member to repeat the eck
      dogma and rituals. It is just brain washing.

      There are many studies on this in Social Psychology.

      Non ekster ; )

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      Hello All,
      Did most ECKists start out on the "path"
      realizing they were substituting one "God"
      for another? I really didn't start out thinking
      about it that way, but that's what happened.
      I ended up relying upon and beseeching the
      Mahanta in the same way I did with "God!"
      >
      Anyway, I've more comments from a
      different perspective to Klemp's latest
      instructions to his Higher Initiates.
      >
      *****************************************
      Klemp, once again, does some damage
      control to prevent more H.I.s from leaving
      his control. And, guess what? It's all another
      "test!"

      ECKankar's new slogan should be:
      "ECKankar, We Make It Easy!"

      *****************************************
      The H.I. Letter - March 2009 - Front Page Article

      > [HK]: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
      >
      > Rich spiritual experiences are the
      > stuff of life in ECK. However, there's
      > more to it."
      >
      > [P]: Yes, this is true! Klemp, once again,
      > states the obvious. However, one can have
      > rich spiritual experiences without being
      > a follower of a "living God," or of religious
      > dogma!
      >
      > [HK]: "What is the point, for example, IF
      > someone keeps forgetting them, both inner
      > and outer, then to end up doubting the reality
      > of the Mahanta, the LEM?"
      >
      > [P]: What happens when the ECKist forgets or
      > is misdirected from the "reality" of Soul? They
      > become Co-dependent "Co-workers" of another
      > religious scam like the one they left! Why does
      > Klemp teach dependence upon himself, the
      > Mahanta/LEM (i.e. God), instead of Self-Reliance?
      > Well, isn't that what the other Religions do, except,
      > by other means and methods!
      >
      > [HK]: "It does happen, this doubt, to many
      > staunch ECKists, from time to time."
      >
      > [P]: The "doubt" that the "staunch ECKists"
      > experience is their own innate awareness
      > of SOUL! Klemp takes away the Oneness
      > that Soul has with the ECK (SPIRIT) via the
      > ECKankar intercession belief that only the
      > Mahanta/LEM can provide this connection.
      >
      > [HK]: "Every such occasion is a TEST."
      >
      > [P]: Lies are most believable when they contain
      > some truth. Every life experience is both a "test"
      > and a learning experience for spiritual growth.
      > However, Soul does Not need a religion, or
      > another's rules, or intercession, or a "master"
      > to follow. Soul needs to make It's own way via
      > It's own connection to SPIRIT and Itself!
      >
      > [HK]: "The individual follows the ECK road because,
      > so far, the obstacles in his path were easily overcome,
      > though at times requiring him to reach deeply into
      > his reserves to bypass them. It Is All In The Game,
      > the wonderful game of life."
      >
      > [P]: Religion is a "Game" as well! But, shouldn't
      > the advanced Soul be able to "bypass" the requirements
      > of Religion! Isn't following the Golden Rule enough!
      > Why do ECKists need a "Living" Idol? True, paradoxes
      > exist, but this is for each Soul to discover and experience
      > without religious dogma pointing it out and making
      > it their own. ECKists have become as narrow-minded
      > and fearful as creation fundamentalists!
      >
      > [HK]: "Experiences of all kinds are the Key in ECKankar.
      > BUT to bear fruit, one must remember them, learn
      > from them, abide by them, through good times and
      > bad."
      >
      > [P]: H.I.s need to come down from their high horses.
      > "Experiences of all kinds" are not exclusive to ECKankar!
      > And, everyone experiences the "good times and bad"
      > without a Mahanta/God to provide "protection" or
      > "tests."
      >
      > [HK]: "...experiences must take root to flower. So
      > an experience in itself is not enough. The reason
      > that I mention this is that even, and maybe especially,
      > HIGHER INITIATES will find themselves barred by
      > too-high a wall or another, too much of the time,
      > in their estimation. BUT in terms of having rich
      > spiritual experiences, the more the merrier. Each
      > TEST is an opportunity to unfold."
      >
      > [P]: Again, Klemp makes excuses and blames the
      > H.I.s for not being thankful for the negative "lessons/
      > tests" HE (God) claims to hand down. HK is playing
      > the Blame Game with Higher Initiates because some
      > are now seeing through the hoax and are Not being
      > thankful for their Holy "gifts/tests." Some "EK" Souls
      > are awakening to the fraud of their, and all, religion!
      >
      > [HK]: "Yet even Higher Initiates may come up short,
      > choosing rather to quit ECKankar and take up with,
      > or return to, a more suitable, for them, religious
      > discipline, one that seems more familiar, more
      > comfortable, and one which would offer an easier
      > time of it."
      >
      > [P]: True, some people need religion... any religion!
      > However, if those Souls who sought out a spiritual
      > and individual path and found ECKankar then they
      > did learn of and saw a different perspective. But,
      > enough is enough! How long does it take to find
      > One's own Truth! Instead, ECkists became enamored
      > with the promises (of higher heavens/planes of
      > consciousness) and the (ego) status of the Higher
      > Initiations. ECKists were fooled with a bait and switch
      > which appealed to the ego while alleviating their
      > natural, and real, fears of doubt, suffering, and death.
      >
      > [HK]: "So yes, on rare occasions you will see even
      > Higher Initiates choose a Lower road. BUT as for
      > you, stay on the Higher one of ECK."
      >
      > [P]: Every religion states that it is the "Higher" road!
      > Right? Doesn't every religion state the same thing
      > as Klemp just stated? Don't people shop around for
      > the religion that suits their needs and "consciousness?"
      > But, religions (ECKankar too) are designed for masses
      > of people. The Individual is held back by the religious
      > (group) consciousness. Just look at Klemp's redundant
      > (lower plane) words with repackaged books and EK
      > Seminar Workshops, as well as, the old (repackaged)
      > Satsang Discourses with "new" workbooks.
      >
      > [HK]: "... What is your enterprise? Is it to serve
      > ECK or yourself? An enterprise is an undertaking
      > or project, one that may change many times
      > during a lifetime."
      >
      > [P]: One should "serve" and care for Oneself
      > while practicing the Golden Rule of: "Do unto
      > others as you would have them do unto you!"
      > God or SPIRIT or ALL THAT IS is Not a jealous
      > God, but Klemp is! Yet, ECKists have become
      > blinded, lost, and misdirected from whence
      > they began as Truth-Seekers.
      >
      > [HK]: "..... blah, blah, blah.... trap...enterprise...
      > service... step-by-step... day-to-day... Joan
      > ... Monopoly... attitude... spiritual fortunes...
      >
      > Let me leave you with this quote from Rebazar
      > Tarzs in Stranger by the River: 'Now I tell you,
      > when you are full of opinions and speculations,
      > God is withdrawn from thee. How can I show
      > thee God unless you first empty thyself of all
      > these worldly things?' [end]
      >
      > [P]: However, if one Does Not live in a hut in
      > the Hindu Kush Mountains, as the fictional
      > Rebazar does, then one needs to have "opinions"
      > and "speculate" in order to live in the reality
      > of this world. Life consists of experiences,
      > dreams, imagination, cause and effect, fears,
      > tests, challenges and whatever we (as Soul)
      > have chosen to learn from.
      >
      > But Klemp, and the imagined powers and
      > "knowledge" of other "masters," "prophets,"
      > and "Gods" have nothing to do with Soul.
      >
      > True, we do have common experiences because
      > we are both human and Soul, but we, also,
      > have our own private, unique, and individual
      > relationship with our Self and with the Divine.
      > Our individualism and unique beliefs represent
      > our own private and personal religion, our own
      > Mastership, and our Freedom of Consciousness!
      >
      > Prometheus
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