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Re: Klemp's Never Mentioned Darwin's Death!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab, It seems to me that Klemp became the Mahanta (in his delusional mind) officially on September 15, 1983. Where else is this stated in writing
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 9, 2009
      Hello Etznab,
      It seems to me that Klemp became
      the Mahanta (in his delusional mind)
      "officially" on September 15, 1983.
      Where else is this stated in writing
      earlier? And, we can't include earlier
      claims from "edited" writings after
      this date!

      I'm certain that the "Blue" (Mahanta)
      Carnations or Blue Flowers weren't put
      out onto the stage until AFTER Darwin
      was kicked out. My guess would be
      that this subtle "announcement" happened
      at the Oct. 1983 EWWS! However, the
      Mahanta title isn't given on Oct. 22.
      Only the passing of the Rod of ECK Power
      for the LEM happens on PT's Birthday!
      The LEM, thus, can tell his chelas anything
      about when he became the 14th Mahanta
      and it is considered as truthful and as law!
      After all, who's going to correct him... Rebazar?
      LOL!

      Prometheus


      *******************************************
      [HK]: "Personal and Confidential
      September 15, 1983

      Darwin Gross
      P.O. Box 837
      Corvallis, Oregon 97339

      Dear Darwin, As the Mahanta, the Living
      ECK Master, it is my duty to write you with
      regard to actions you have taken which are
      CONTRARY TO THE TENETS..."

      ********************************************
      Etznab wrote:
      Prometheus,

      Thank you much for sharing that.

      I never did determine exactly when
      Harold Klemp first dawned the title of
      Mahanta. I didn't hear him announced
      as such in the 1981 & 1982 WWS's
      (audio tape recordings of). I did hear
      it in the 1984 WWS recording though.

      My suspicion was that he started to
      use the title in 1983 after Darwin was
      removed (August 1983) as president.

      I am still not certain though whether
      it became official in 1983, or 1984.

      A wikipedia link I read on May 14th,
      2006 included the following quote:

      "In 1983, amid numerous court challenges
      and other conflicts, Klemp achieved both titles."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Klemp

      That link today, however, no longer
      appears to give that quote. Instead it
      appears to suggest the title changes
      happened in 1984:

      In 1984 leadership challenges, including
      accusations of misappropriation of Eckankar
      funds and other conflicts, brought the two leaders
      of Eckankar into formal legal battles in court.[4]
      At that time, Klemp was allowed public use of the
      two Eckankar titles of distinction - the title "Living
      Eck Master" and the title "Mahanta."[5]

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Klemp

      The date for the letter in which Harold wrote
      to Darwin Gross:

      "The Order of the Vairagi ECK Masters no longer
      recognizes you as an ECK Master. As the agent of
      the ECK, I have removed all of your initiations in ECK
      as well as terminated your membership in Eckankar.
      You are not capable or authorized to act or speak for
      or about the Vairagi ECK Masters, Eckankar or the
      ECK Teachings, nor are you to hold yourself out as
      an ECK Master or ECK member."

      was January 4th, 1984. This was from (according to)
      Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
      Consciousness, p. 239.

      I still don't know whether Harold's title including
      the Mahanta began in 1983 or 1984. By the letter
      you cited, however, Harold was calling himself the
      Mahanta as early as September 1983.

      To date, I have still never found an audio or video
      recording of the 1983 WWS that would let me hear
      whether Harold was announced as Living Eck Master,
      or Mahanta, the Living Eck Master. I haven't tried to
      order it yet, though.

      I did ask - here - in the past if anybody knew what
      the 1983 WWS said at the beginning, but I don't re-
      member what was the response.

      When did Harold Klemp "officially" become the
      Mahanta? is something I have wanted to know for
      historical purposes. I know on the official Eckankar
      website it appears to show Harold was Mahanta in
      the beginning, in 1981, but if that was the case then
      why wasn't he announced as such at the 1981 and
      1982 WWS's?

      Maybe I need to go back and check those audio-
      tape recordings again. However, I thought that I did
      that already and didn't hear "Mahanta" in the intro.

      Etznab


      Prometheus wrote:

      It's been one year since Darwin Gross' (972nd

      M/LEM) death. Yet, Harold Klemp (973rd LEM)

      has never found it necessary to mention it!



      Klemp has missed numerous opportunities to say

      something nice about the man who gave him his

      job! This tells volumes about the "real" Klemp and

      shows just how mean spirited, unforgiving, and

      unloving that he is. Thus, Klemp's sin of omission

      (of love and kindness) is proof that he is now

      a "Master."


      This is Klemp's 1983 Personal & Confidential

      Letter to Gross with Gross's response.



      Klemp is discrediting Gross's validity as an ECK

      Master due to and regarding DG's past conduct.



      However, one wonders the timeline of the

      misconduct since Klemp was initiated by

      Gross, as LEM, on Oct. 22, 1981.



      BTW- Gross' responses, to HK's comments,

      are written, as notations, on various parts of

      the Letter including the margins and with an

      ink pen versus a ballpoint. This factor, along

      with DG's handwriting style, has caused me

      to make educated/logical guesses (in some

      cases) as to the exact word DG is using in his

      reply. However, I also look at the context of

      Klemp's remarks (overall) in order to determine

      the context of Gross' reply.



      FYI, I am putting into CAPS everything that Darwin

      Gross, (DG), has "UNDERLINED" or "CIRCLED" on

      Klemp's letter to him. DG is responding to and

      correcting Klemp on key issues. This document,

      too, is located under the "First" LINK on the LINKS

      Page and in the FILES section. The (below) beginning

      comments were written by DG at the top of HK's

      letter to him.



      [Also, "EK A Universal Teaching" was printed on

      the bottom of the first page of Klemp's letter.]

      #######################################

      [DG]: "It is my belief that all this ruckus was based

      on ill suspicion by you, Harold and passed on to the

      Board and 8th's as a power play when all was necessary

      was to talk about it for you know within your own heart

      you have harbored ill feelings which I would have gladly

      aided you had you asked."



      [HK]: "Personal and Confidential

      September 15, 1983



      Darwin Gross

      P.O. Box 837

      Corvallis, Oregon 97339



      Dear Darwin, As the Mahanta, the Living

      ECK Master, it is my duty to write you with

      regard to actions you have taken which are

      CONTRARY TO THE TENETS..."



      [DG]: "How?"



      [HK]: "...and doctrine of the sacred teachings

      of Eckankar and which are not in the best

      interests of the chelas. As the Shariyat-Ki-

      Sugmad states:"



      [DG]: "I've bent over backwards to help you,

      you nor the Board asked 1 question!"



      [HK]: "...The Divine Dreamer sends out Its dreams

      to man via The Mahanta, the Living Eck Master

      (Book II, p.7)..."



      [DG]: "P.T. is the Mahanta to 1,000 years yet."



      *ME: TWITCHELL IS THE MAHANTA FOR 1,000 YEARS!



      [HK]: "… the Sugmad takes control of all life through

      ITS counterparts such as the Eck, the Lords, Rulers,

      and Governors, of each plane, and the Eck Masters of

      the Vairagi, and those beings who are co-workers of

      ITSELF. All these work through and with the Mahanta,

      the Living Eck Master. (p.60)"



      [HK]: "Your ACTIONS have circumvented my spiritual

      authority. The communications you have instigated

      with the membership have been needlessly creating

      DISHARMONY and have been MISLEADING. You would

      not tolerate such activity during your Mastership and

      I have a similar responsibility `to defend the works

      of Eck and the chelas who have put their interest

      in Eck.' (From your June 1972 Wisdom Notes and

      the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book I, p.101)"



      [DG]: "What actions? I have been quiet & secluded

      until you removed my secretary using. The accusations

      here are H.K.'s not wishing to tell the truth."



      [HK]: "You should clearly understand the CONFLICT

      you are generating within some chelas. The Shariyat

      One states, `NEITHER CAN ANYONE FOLLOW TWO OR

      MORE MASTERS AT THE SAME TIME.' (p.82) This is why

      it is so often repeated in the ECK teachings that the Living

      Eck Master, the holder of the Rod of Power, the Mahanta,

      is the final arbiter on all matters physical and spiritual

      regarding the Eck teachings. Again, from the Shariyat

      One..."



      *ME: Klemp is taking this quote OUT-OF-CONTEXT!

      The "two masters at the same time" is referring to

      two different spiritual paths, or to worldly desires

      versus heavenly desires and Not to two EK Masters!

      Besides, according to EK Dogma, the Master who

      first initiates you is with you on the "inner" always!



      [DG]: "I'm of the mind you and the Board did this. This

      is a misquote. It is up to the individual which EK master

      he looks to."



      [HK]: `the Eckist finds there is only ONE MAHANTA

      WITHIN EACH LIFETIME..."



      [DG]: "Which was established in Paul Twitchell for all time."



      *ME: Darwin is saying there was only one MAHANTA

      and that was PAUL, and Klemp seems to have proven

      that with his Shariyat quote!



      [HK]: "...of every Soul spent within the universe. All

      other Eck Masters in the Order of the Vairagi, the

      Brotherhood of Eck Masters, are know as the Maharaj.



      Every Maharaj is subordinate to the Living Eck Master no

      matter whom he might be, for the Mahanta holds the ECK

      Rod of Power… The Mahanta holds this Rod of Power until

      he is translated into an esoteric..."



      [DG]: "Harold, Please Re-read the Book 2 (S-K) of the

      Ninth for you were assisting!"



      *ME: What's this about the NINTH INITIATION?



      [HK]: "...position within the Order of the Vairagi

      somewhere within the universes as a spiritual worker

      or greater importance. Then he, too, is a member

      of this hierarchy where before he was the head of

      it and responsible directly to the Sugmad.



      The Maharajs are know as the Silent Ones.' (p.160)"



      [DG]: "Start issuing out the succor and get

      on with the Spiritual, Darn it!"



      *[ME]: I Cannot find this quote about the "MAHARAJS,

      the SILENT ONES" in my Shariyat 1&2 anywhere! Klemp

      must have edited this out! Klemp's Eckankar Lexicon

      states: MAHARAJ - THE BROTHERHOOD OF ECK MASTERS,

      SUBORDINATE TO THE MAHANTA, THE LIVING ECK

      MASTER WHO HOLDS THE ROD OF ECK POWER (pg.131).

      How can members of the BROTHERHOOD of ECK MASTERS

      (Order of Vairagi) be the NINE `SILENT ONES!' See, this is

      more proof of Twitchell's made-up religion and scam, and

      of Klemp's cover-up by Re-editing Twitchell's works!



      [HK]: "I am not unaware that `having attained the stature

      of the Eck Master, it is found that there yet lies beyond,

      higher and even higher stages of spiritual evolution.'

      (Shariyat II, p.75) But, `the Eck Masters live mainly in

      seclusion' (Shariyat II, p.105)."



      [DG]: "That is each EK Master's Decision."



      [HK]: `All the Masters of Eckankar generally live in

      a RETREAT or inaccessible places...



      [DG]: "You kicked me out of mine and cancelled

      my Life Time Agreement."



      [HK]: "...or, if in the Western countries, every effort

      is made to conceal their identity. Their presence is

      universal; in India, Tibet, Egypt, China, Lebanon,

      Cyprus, Hungary, and other nations of the world.



      However, 'THERE IS ONLY one Mahanta, the Living

      ECK Master, WHO HAS CHARGE OVER ALL….'

      (Shariyat II, p.77)"



      [DG] "Not in the Spiritual Planes! Sorry, the Sugmad

      has it. You want me to lie, huh?! No way!"



      [HK]: "It is meant for the Living Eck Master, THE

      MAHANTA, TO HAVE THE LAST WORD IN THE RUNNING

      OF THE PHYSICAL ORGANIZATION OF ECKANKAR."



      [DG]: "P.T. Spiritually. This is up to the Board Not L.E.M."



      *[ME]: As I see it this is the chief flaw with Darwin's whole

      perspective, AND which Klemp took advantage of and corrected!

      The Top Dog Mahanta s/b the sole authority over everything

      Eckankar and Darwin should have seen this! LOL! The tenure

      of the Board of Eckankar members is (now) for a one year

      period, however, they can be replaced at any given time, and

      for whatever reason, by the LEM/Mahanta. The votes and input

      by the BOARD are at the pleasure of the LEM/Mahanta and

      can be rejected at anytime, for any reason, or for no reason!



      [HK]: "You should know as well as I that this authority

      IS BESTOWED FOR DEEPLY SPIRITUAL REASONS, and

      not for personal or material factors."



      [DG]: "Not true!"



      [HK]: "No other past Eck Master in Eckankar's history

      has SOUGHT TO EXERT CONTROL OVER THE PHYSICAL

      VEHICLE OF THE SACRED TEACHING PAST HIS TIME."



      [DG]: "This is not true!"



      [HK]: "The rumors and negative gossip are not emanating from

      the direction of the Eckankar Office. If you are concerned

      about such gossip and rumors perhaps you should take note of

      your previous teaching:...



      [DG]: "What about yours & the phone calls? and other

      statements made of me which where false & defamatory

      from you & the new Board of trustees.



      [HK] ...`By involving themselves in such gossip, Eckists are

      taking on karmic ties with the individuals they are judging

      and they may be sorry they started it.' (your May/June 1980

      Mystic World article entitled "Criticizing Others")



      As you further wrote in that same article,



      `I have written personal letters to certain individuals

      asking them to stop their bickering and work together

      harmoniously in their communities and they don't seem

      to realize the hard-ships they are creating by ignoring

      the requests of the Living Eck Master.'



      [DG]: "Come on, Harold Let's work together!"



      [HK]: "My letter to the membership and other

      communications from the office have been healing

      in nature your actions have not been so."



      [DG]: "Not true. My H.I. & personal mail stops at the

      EK office. You need to talk and look for yourself in

      the Physical world of the much unrest amongst the

      membership."



      [HK]: "As the physical and spiritual leader of Eckankar,

      I AM THE ONE WHO DECIDES WHAT COMMUNICATIONS

      ARE MAILED TO THE CHELAS AND TO THE PUBLIC FROM

      ECKANKAR not a past Eck master. This is consistent

      entirely with my role and the role of the Living Eck Master

      throughout time."



      [DG]: "This is not true for I have a Spiritual and

      Physical Responsibility to many initiates in ECKANKAR.

      Also Stop Editing my articles Please. It is only truth

      of the Boards action that I wished to let the membership

      know of. This is our responsibility."



      *[ME]: My reply to Klemp: The only "throughout time"

      began with Twitchell. HK bought into the LIE with the

      rest of us, however, at some point-in-time he discovered

      the truth which he has kept hidden as he became more

      powerful and, thus, HK perpetuates the LIE of Eckankar

      even further for his own benefit and ego.



      [HK]: "Eckankar doctrine is something which falls

      EXCLUSIVELY UNDER MY JURISDICTION, TO USE

      LANGUAGE YOUR LAWYER MIGHT UNDERSTAND."



      *ME: Klemp is showing his nasty side that chelas

      don't get to see. He's always on his best behaviour

      when they see him for, usually, two hours within

      a year's time.



      [DG]: "Not true. This is a free world where free

      speech and movement is regarded highly."



      [HK]: "Neither he, or any judge, or any past Living

      Eck Master, has any authority in the area. Rebazar

      Tarzs does not need a special mailing to communicate

      with Eck chelas, nor does Yaubl Sacabi, Fubbi Quantz,

      or Peddar Zaskq. They understand their role to assist

      me in the work that needs to be done. THERE IS NO

      NEED FOR YOU TO WRITE A FOUR-PAGE LETTER TO

      CHELAS ATTEMPTING TO JUSTIFY YOUR ACTIONS.

      An Eck master has no trouble spiritually with those

      in his charge."



      [DG]: "Only to let the truth be known. What did

      I do wrong? Four authors is in true if edited Word

      only. Please read them."



      *[ME]: My reply to Klemp: Why Does Klemp, himself,

      STILL Need OUTER mailings or OUTER Trainings,

      Guidelines, Discourses, Member Only Books, Rules,

      Newsletters, etc. for the Mahanta Klemp to communicate

      with his Chelas? He says REBAZAR doesn't need mailings

      and, therefore, Gross shouldn't need mailings to communicate!

      HK doesn't practice what he preaches does he! He talks

      the talk, but can't walk the walk himself because HK (the

      Mahanta) IS A FRAUD! Imagination & Dreams are common

      and universal with everyone in the world and the Religions

      take advantage of these facts! After 25 years, Due to his

      layering of lies, HK is even lower, in consciousness, than

      when he began! Just look at the CON of these other Modern

      Day Godmen!!! ECKists need to Shift their perspective

      in order to see the Truth "behind the curtain" of their

      own religion too!



      [HK]: "At this point, Darwin, you have shown that you

      do not know of the doctrinal rules of the Living Eck Master

      and prior Living Eck Masters. These prior Living Eck Masters

      are working quietly and harmoniously behind the scenes."



      [DG]: "I do Know of The Doctrinal Rules of ECK.

      This is why I have been quiet!!!"



      *[ME]: Klemp continues the delusion/illusion and

      scam by stating that there were "prior" LEMs versus

      only PT and DG!



      [HK]: "I leave open the possibility that this matter

      will heal and that you once again can handle the

      responsibilities involved with the assisting me,

      the Mahanta, the Living Eck Master."



      [DG]: "You do not decide how or what I do with my life.

      DG I had stepped aside 2 years ago with Full Awareness

      of my Responsibilities to the L.E.M. I have not, Nor Planned

      to split the membership as I stated in a letter to the Board,

      I Joined hands with you (H.K.) to resolved this misunderstanding

      and you Refused to Join me in this attempt to stop all

      the rumors. DG



      All I have asked for is The Truth to be quoted and the Life

      Time Agreement Between ECKANKAR and Sri Darwin Gross

      FulFilled. However, the Board Knows No Human decency nor

      Ethics as we have put forth to the World in EK. What you do

      to me you do to Sri Paul Twitchell and all of the EK Masters-

      including yourself. I've always been ready to sit down and

      work out any differences between us. Please let us help

      those who need help. DG"



      *[ME]: Once again, Gross makes the mistake of giving

      the ECKANKAR Board of Officers and Trustees too much

      power. Klemp quickly corrected this flaw! After all, how

      can anyone have authority over the LEM/Mahanta!!!



      Prometheus
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