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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious

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  • etznab@aol.com
    About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art leaves with them. Just
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
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      About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
      if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
      old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
      leaves with them.

      Just wondering.

      Etznab

      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:01 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious



      Hello Etznab and All,

      I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

      with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.



      HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

      (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

      add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

      March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

      like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

      Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.



      Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

      define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

      have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

      the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!



      And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

      But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

      need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

      This is just another form of editing where Klemp

      needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

      the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imagin
      ations

      in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

      believable!



      Prometheus



      etznab wrote:



      I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

      for the new Eckankar catalog.



      Etznab



      Prometheus wrote:



      Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky

      versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most

      ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If

      EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy

      laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,

      according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then

      went to India.



      Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only

      makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there

      was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar

      Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told

      a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.

      That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,

      joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"

      around mid-1971.



      The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists

      and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while

      the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker

      of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those

      EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious

      Fo
      llowers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't

      even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in

      the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't

      it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,

      who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least

      the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"

      on an individual and private basis. They never have and

      never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all

      a "joke!"



      I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or

      seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and

      protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.

      The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are

      inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to

      comply and obey. There are always those authority figures

      and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've

      become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn

      that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).

      Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more

      often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence

      and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply

      losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what

      turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that

      one has been a Seeker all a
      long!



      Prometheus



      Jonathan wrote:



      Etznab and Mishmisha,



      I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through

      yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar

      was a fraud.



      As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another

      emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't

      sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was

      based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.



      Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is

      another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in

      something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't

      recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through

      regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things

      and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab and All, It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters, by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar and, thus, still belong to ECKankar.
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
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        Hello Etznab and All,
        It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
        by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
        and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
        images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
        too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
        descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
        pictures.

        In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
        left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
        Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!

        I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
        in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
        HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
        In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
        When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
        a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!

        Prometheus



        Etznab wrote:
        About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
        if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
        old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
        leaves with them.

        Just wondering.

        Etznab


        Prometheus wrote:


        Hello Etznab and All,

        I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

        with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.



        HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

        (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

        add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

        March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

        like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

        Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.



        Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

        define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

        have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

        the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!



        And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

        But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

        need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

        This is just another form of editing where Klemp

        needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

        the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations

        in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

        believable!



        Prometheus



        etznab wrote:



        I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

        for the new Eckankar catalog.



        Etznab



        Prometheus wrote:



        Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky

        versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most

        ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If

        EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy

        laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,

        according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then

        went to India.



        Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only

        makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there

        was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar

        Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told

        a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.

        That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,

        joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"

        around mid-1971.



        The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists

        and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while

        the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker

        of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those

        EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious

        Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't

        even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in

        the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't

        it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,

        who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least

        the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"

        on an individual and private basis. They never have and

        never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all

        a "joke!"



        I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or

        seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and

        protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.

        The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are

        inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to

        comply and obey. There are always those authority figures

        and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've

        become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn

        that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).

        Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more

        often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence

        and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply

        losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what

        turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that

        one has been a Seeker all along!



        Prometheus



        Jonathan wrote:



        Etznab and Mishmisha,



        I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through

        yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar

        was a fraud.



        As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another

        emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't

        sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was

        based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.



        Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is

        another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in

        something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't

        recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through

        regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things

        and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
      • jonathanjohns96
        All, Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross book Your Right To Know (copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings of Eck masters:
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          All,

          Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross' book "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz, Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs [sic]. They pretty much look the way they "should" look. I would say the quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states "Ink sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these predate Diane Stanleys artwork or not.

          Jonathan


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Etznab and All,
          > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
          > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
          > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
          > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
          > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
          > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
          > pictures.
          >
          > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
          > left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
          > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!
          >
          > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
          > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
          > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
          > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
          > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
          > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          > Etznab wrote:
          > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
          > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
          > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
          > leaves with them.
          >
          > Just wondering.
          >
          > Etznab
          >
          >
          > Prometheus wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hello Etznab and All,
          >
          > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
          >
          > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.
          >
          >
          >
          > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
          >
          > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
          >
          > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
          >
          > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
          >
          > like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
          >
          > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.
          >
          >
          >
          > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
          >
          > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
          >
          > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
          >
          > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!
          >
          >
          >
          > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
          >
          > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
          >
          > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
          >
          > This is just another form of editing where Klemp
          >
          > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
          >
          > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
          >
          > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
          >
          > believable!
          >
          >
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          > etznab wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
          >
          > for the new Eckankar catalog.
          >
          >
          >
          > Etznab
          >
          >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, I remember Helen s sketches. I think she was the one that came up with the currently used EK symbol versus the Greek looking
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 4, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Jonathan and All,
            Yes, I remember Helen's sketches. I think she
            was the one that came up with the currently
            used "EK" symbol versus the Greek looking
            letters. I remember her telling me once that
            she was in HK's Satsang Class, in Las Vegas,
            and that Harry was the Arahata.

            BTW- When compared to the recent pics
            of Yaubl and Fubbi how do Helen's sketches
            differ? What changes have been made in their
            appearances between then and now? Are they
            turning younger like Benjamin Button? If so,
            that would be like in the movie!

            Prometheus



            Jonathan wrote:
            All,

            Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin
            Gross' book "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there
            are four ink line drawings of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz,
            Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs [sic]. They pretty
            much look the way they "should" look. I would say the
            quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states
            "Ink sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these
            predate Diane Stanleys artwork or not.

            Jonathan


            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
            > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
            > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
            > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
            > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
            > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
            > pictures.
            >
            > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
            > left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
            > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!
            >
            > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
            > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
            > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
            > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
            > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
            > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > Etznab wrote:
            > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
            > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
            > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
            > leaves with them.
            >
            > Just wondering.
            >
            > Etznab
            >
            >
            > Prometheus wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            >
            > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
            >
            > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.
            >
            >
            >
            > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
            >
            > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
            >
            > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
            >
            > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
            >
            > like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
            >
            > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.
            >
            >
            >
            > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
            >
            > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
            >
            > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
            >
            > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!
            >
            >
            >
            > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
            >
            > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
            >
            > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
            >
            > This is just another form of editing where Klemp
            >
            > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
            >
            > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
            >
            > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
            >
            > believable!
            >
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > etznab wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
            >
            > for the new Eckankar catalog.
            >
            >
            >
            > Etznab
          • etznab@aol.com
            Jonathan, That s one book I don t have, but thanks for sharing that. Etznab ... From: jonathanjohns96 To:
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 4, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Jonathan,

              That's one book I don't have, but thanks
              for sharing that.

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: jonathanjohns96 <jonathanjohns96@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 8:57 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Make-Over and Touch-Up of
              the EK Masters



              All,



              Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross' book
              "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings
              of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz, Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs
              [sic]. They pretty much look the way they "should" look. I would say
              the quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states "Ink
              sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these predate Diane
              Stanleys artwork or not.



              Jonathan



              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

              >

              > Hello Etznab and All,

              > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,

              > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar

              > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the

              > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted

              > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's

              > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their

              > pictures.

              >

              > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley

              > left ECKankar and20were recently Touched-Up again.

              > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!

              >

              > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated

              > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently

              > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.

              > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.

              > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing

              > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!

              >

              > Prometheus

              >

              >

              >

              > Etznab wrote:

              > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering

              > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If

              > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art

              > leaves with them.

              >

              > Just wondering.

              >

              > Etznab

              >

              >

              > Prometheus wrote:

              >

              >

              > Hello Etznab and All,

              >

              > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

              >

              > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

              >

              >

              >

              > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

              >

              > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

              >

              > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

              >

              > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

              >

              > like: White Magic;=2
              0White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

              >

              > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

              >

              >

              >

              > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

              >

              > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

              >

              > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

              >

              > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

              >

              >

              >

              > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

              >

              > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

              >

              > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

              >

              > This is just another form of editing where Klemp

              >

              > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

              >

              > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations

              >

              > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

              >

              > believable!

              >

              >

              >

              > Prometheus

              >

              >

              >

              > etznab wrote:

              >

              >

              >

              > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

              >

              > for the new Eckankar catalog.

              >

              >

              >

              > Etznab

              >

              >

              >
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