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The Loss of Innocence via The EK Con

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, the emotional upset and the mental anguish of discovering that one s religion was a big lie, and a con, is disappointing and
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
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      Hello Jonathan and All,
      Yes, the emotional upset and the mental anguish
      of discovering that one's religion was a big lie, and
      a con, is disappointing and hurtful. One places their
      trust in the words of authority figures who are seen
      as more "spiritually advanced," and in one's own inner
      experiences. Then, when the follower/seeker opens
      their mind to other possibilities and questions the
      contradictions they begin to "see" the Truth. The trust
      in the imagined worlds they have helped to create
      begins to fracture and is eventually shattered. Thus,
      it now becomes difficult to hang onto any real truths.

      One has to ask, What is Truth? Truth is God! And It
      is our own personal and private relationship Without
      the need for someone else to intervene or interpret
      these revelations/experiences of Truth for us.

      On Discovering the Truth About ECKankar:

      There is a danger of developing a disbelief in all things!
      One must Not Lose their Sense of Wonder, although,
      one's "innocence" will certainly be affected. However,
      one can still keep an Open Mind and see the Glass as
      Half-Full. Thus, that Loss of Innocence can be seen as
      a good thing and as "spiritual maturity." One just needs
      to "Keep the Faith in One's Self" and in ALL THAT IS,
      SPIRIT, the FORCE, i.e. SPIRIT, TRUTH, or whatever we
      call IT.

      Religion is, of course, a fraud. It's a Group Belief with
      a Leader that is placed far above his followers and High
      upon a pedestal (M/LEM). And, there are always "carrots"
      that are "dangled" in front of these followers to keep them
      in line, under control, and desiring more. More rewards
      are promised on the "inner" invisible planes of heaven
      and for the next lifetime for Soul (after one's physical
      death of course). the negatives in life are explained away
      as tests and karma while the positives are seen as coming
      from the blessings and intervention of the religious leader.

      Thus, ECKists can only imagine (as the mind naturally
      does) anything that makes them happy and that alleviates
      their natural fears. Then, when this religious delusion
      is shattered, with Reality and Truth, one can become
      disheartened with deception via another religion that
      has become a business. True, some religious cons have
      changed and matured over the years, but all are meant
      to give crumbs of hope to certain like-minded groups
      of individuals. Religions, and their leaders, make money
      and have power which is used to control and manipulate
      the followers.

      The journey, toward the goal, requires one to develop
      their own private "religion."

      This is what Twitchell's "Cliff-Hanger" started out
      to be until Gail encouraged the liar Twit to "share
      it" and "Sell it" to others! Perhaps Twit rationalized
      as Klemp has. This "ECKankar" belief was helping
      those who had rejected the lies and myth of the
      Orthodox (mostly Christian) Religions of their youth.

      See, if religion can remove the fear of death and
      the fear of the unknown and can give the mind peace
      and reassurance through Belief and Faith (along with
      high principles to live by) via the use of the imagination
      then one is doing good for mankind! This is how Klemp
      rationalizes his lies. But, look at the harm he is doing
      with his threats, and to those who are being mislead
      and don't need his religion any longer. HK's threats
      no longer make him a "benevolent dictator" as he likes
      to view himself.

      Klemp sees himself as doing a benefit to Mankind
      (as a KAL agent) by sorting the wheat from the chaff.

      In others words, the ECKankar religion can be seen
      as a "test" for Soul (all religions are a test for Soul).
      Those Souls who are weaker and in need of more time
      and experience (to "cook"), in order to drop their egos
      and desires will need more EK initiations, status, and
      thus, more time to mature. These long-time ECKists
      need much more time and experience in the religion
      before discovering their TRUE nature, Self-confidence,
      individuality and Mastership, and their Oneness with Spirit.

      I admire David Lane and Ford Johnson for their tenacity
      and dedication to uncovering the lies and deceit of ECKankar.

      These two people (Lane and Johnson) helped me and other
      EK Higher Initiates with 25 plus years to pass our "test" and
      "wake-up" in order to see the Truth and leave EK. Even those
      35 plus year 7th Initiates who had finally awakened and left
      ECKankar were brave enough and ego-free enough to leave.
      I will say that I just wasn't as strong or mature to let go of
      religion until I had years of accumulating insight and experience
      via the ECKankar experience and Klemp's fraud.

      Of course, there's another perspective that there was No "KAL"
      or "test" because the belief in the KAL (Devil, Satan) is just another
      Myth of religion.

      Many have remained in ECKankar because of family
      and friend connections (attachments) and, of course,
      due to Ego!

      However, Twitch, in his "Shariyat Book Two, Ch 12"
      gives 7ths a hint, and a choice, as to what they can
      now, finally, do. "He now has the right to choose
      whether he will pursue the rest of the way on the
      path of Eckankar."

      However, for those 7ths who still have some weakness
      (fears) with attachments to strong egos and who haven't
      realized that it was a KAL "test" PT states, "There are five
      more initiations for him to take before entering the circle
      of the Adepts.."

      Thus, (religion) ECKankar is not just Twitchell's joke,
      it is also KAL's! Sometimes old sayings have some
      truth in them... "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!"
      And, "Keep the Faith," but in your own SELF!

      Prometheus


      Jonathan wrote:

      Etznab and Mishmisha,

      I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that
      I went through yesterday. They both have to do with
      when I discovered that Eckankar was a fraud.

      As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me
      that another emotion that came up yesterday was
      "disappointment." That doesn't sound like a severe
      emotion for finding out that your religion was based
      on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday
      too.

      Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence,"
      but that is another emotion that commonly comes up
      when someone believes in something and then the rug
      is pulled out from under them. I don't recall whether
      "loss of innocence" is something that I went through
      regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some
      other things and that can be a very overpowering emotion
      to go through.


      [Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious]

      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Etznab and All,
      I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
      with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

      HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
      (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
      add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
      March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
      like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
      Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

      Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
      define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
      have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
      the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

      And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
      But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
      need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
      This is just another form of editing where Klemp
      needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
      the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
      in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
      believable!

      Prometheus



      etznab wrote:

      I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
      for the new Eckankar catalog.

      Etznab


      [Followers versus Seekers]

      Prometheus wrote:

      Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky
      versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most
      ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If
      EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy
      laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,
      according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then
      went to India.

      Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only
      makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there
      was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar
      Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told
      a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.
      That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,
      joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"
      around mid-1971.

      The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists
      and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while
      the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker
      of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those
      EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious
      Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't
      even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in
      the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't
      it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,
      who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least
      the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"
      on an individual and private basis. They never have and
      never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all
      a "joke!"

      I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or
      seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and
      protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.
      The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are
      inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to
      comply and obey. There are always those authority figures
      and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've
      become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn
      that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).
      Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more
      often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence
      and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply
      losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what
      turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that
      one has been a Seeker all along!

      Prometheus
    • etznab@aol.com
      About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art leaves with them. Just
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
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        About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
        if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
        old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
        leaves with them.

        Just wondering.

        Etznab

        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:01 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious



        Hello Etznab and All,

        I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

        with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.



        HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

        (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

        add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

        March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

        like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

        Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.



        Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

        define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

        have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

        the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!



        And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

        But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

        need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

        This is just another form of editing where Klemp

        needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

        the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imagin
        ations

        in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

        believable!



        Prometheus



        etznab wrote:



        I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

        for the new Eckankar catalog.



        Etznab



        Prometheus wrote:



        Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky

        versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most

        ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If

        EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy

        laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,

        according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then

        went to India.



        Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only

        makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there

        was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar

        Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told

        a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.

        That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,

        joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"

        around mid-1971.



        The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists

        and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while

        the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker

        of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those

        EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious

        Fo
        llowers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't

        even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in

        the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't

        it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,

        who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least

        the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"

        on an individual and private basis. They never have and

        never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all

        a "joke!"



        I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or

        seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and

        protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.

        The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are

        inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to

        comply and obey. There are always those authority figures

        and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've

        become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn

        that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).

        Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more

        often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence

        and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply

        losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what

        turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that

        one has been a Seeker all a
        long!



        Prometheus



        Jonathan wrote:



        Etznab and Mishmisha,



        I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through

        yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar

        was a fraud.



        As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another

        emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't

        sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was

        based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.



        Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is

        another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in

        something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't

        recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through

        regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things

        and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters, by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar and, thus, still belong to ECKankar.
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Etznab and All,
          It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
          by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
          and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
          images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
          too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
          descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
          pictures.

          In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
          left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
          Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!

          I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
          in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
          HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
          In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
          When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
          a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!

          Prometheus



          Etznab wrote:
          About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
          if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
          old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
          leaves with them.

          Just wondering.

          Etznab


          Prometheus wrote:


          Hello Etznab and All,

          I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

          with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.



          HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

          (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

          add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

          March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

          like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

          Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.



          Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

          define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

          have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

          the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!



          And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

          But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

          need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

          This is just another form of editing where Klemp

          needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

          the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations

          in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

          believable!



          Prometheus



          etznab wrote:



          I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

          for the new Eckankar catalog.



          Etznab



          Prometheus wrote:



          Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky

          versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most

          ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If

          EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy

          laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,

          according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then

          went to India.



          Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only

          makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there

          was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar

          Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told

          a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.

          That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,

          joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"

          around mid-1971.



          The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists

          and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while

          the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker

          of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those

          EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious

          Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't

          even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in

          the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't

          it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,

          who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least

          the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"

          on an individual and private basis. They never have and

          never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all

          a "joke!"



          I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or

          seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and

          protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.

          The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are

          inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to

          comply and obey. There are always those authority figures

          and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've

          become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn

          that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).

          Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more

          often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence

          and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply

          losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what

          turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that

          one has been a Seeker all along!



          Prometheus



          Jonathan wrote:



          Etznab and Mishmisha,



          I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through

          yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar

          was a fraud.



          As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another

          emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't

          sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was

          based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.



          Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is

          another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in

          something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't

          recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through

          regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things

          and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
        • jonathanjohns96
          All, Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross book Your Right To Know (copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings of Eck masters:
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
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            All,

            Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross' book "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz, Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs [sic]. They pretty much look the way they "should" look. I would say the quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states "Ink sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these predate Diane Stanleys artwork or not.

            Jonathan


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
            > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
            > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
            > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
            > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
            > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
            > pictures.
            >
            > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
            > left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
            > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!
            >
            > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
            > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
            > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
            > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
            > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
            > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > Etznab wrote:
            > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
            > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
            > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
            > leaves with them.
            >
            > Just wondering.
            >
            > Etznab
            >
            >
            > Prometheus wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            >
            > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
            >
            > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.
            >
            >
            >
            > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
            >
            > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
            >
            > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
            >
            > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
            >
            > like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
            >
            > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.
            >
            >
            >
            > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
            >
            > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
            >
            > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
            >
            > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!
            >
            >
            >
            > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
            >
            > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
            >
            > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
            >
            > This is just another form of editing where Klemp
            >
            > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
            >
            > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
            >
            > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
            >
            > believable!
            >
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > etznab wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
            >
            > for the new Eckankar catalog.
            >
            >
            >
            > Etznab
            >
            >
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, I remember Helen s sketches. I think she was the one that came up with the currently used EK symbol versus the Greek looking
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 4, 2009
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              Hello Jonathan and All,
              Yes, I remember Helen's sketches. I think she
              was the one that came up with the currently
              used "EK" symbol versus the Greek looking
              letters. I remember her telling me once that
              she was in HK's Satsang Class, in Las Vegas,
              and that Harry was the Arahata.

              BTW- When compared to the recent pics
              of Yaubl and Fubbi how do Helen's sketches
              differ? What changes have been made in their
              appearances between then and now? Are they
              turning younger like Benjamin Button? If so,
              that would be like in the movie!

              Prometheus



              Jonathan wrote:
              All,

              Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin
              Gross' book "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there
              are four ink line drawings of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz,
              Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs [sic]. They pretty
              much look the way they "should" look. I would say the
              quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states
              "Ink sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these
              predate Diane Stanleys artwork or not.

              Jonathan


              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
              > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
              > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
              > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
              > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
              > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
              > pictures.
              >
              > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
              > left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
              > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!
              >
              > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
              > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
              > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
              > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
              > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
              > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > Etznab wrote:
              > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
              > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
              > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
              > leaves with them.
              >
              > Just wondering.
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              >
              > Prometheus wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              >
              > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
              >
              > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.
              >
              >
              >
              > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
              >
              > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
              >
              > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
              >
              > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
              >
              > like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
              >
              > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.
              >
              >
              >
              > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
              >
              > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
              >
              > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
              >
              > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!
              >
              >
              >
              > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
              >
              > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
              >
              > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
              >
              > This is just another form of editing where Klemp
              >
              > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
              >
              > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
              >
              > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
              >
              > believable!
              >
              >
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > etznab wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
              >
              > for the new Eckankar catalog.
              >
              >
              >
              > Etznab
            • etznab@aol.com
              Jonathan, That s one book I don t have, but thanks for sharing that. Etznab ... From: jonathanjohns96 To:
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 4, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Jonathan,

                That's one book I don't have, but thanks
                for sharing that.

                Etznab

                -----Original Message-----
                From: jonathanjohns96 <jonathanjohns96@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 8:57 pm
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Make-Over and Touch-Up of
                the EK Masters



                All,



                Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross' book
                "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings
                of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz, Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs
                [sic]. They pretty much look the way they "should" look. I would say
                the quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states "Ink
                sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these predate Diane
                Stanleys artwork or not.



                Jonathan



                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                >

                > Hello Etznab and All,

                > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,

                > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar

                > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the

                > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted

                > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's

                > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their

                > pictures.

                >

                > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley

                > left ECKankar and20were recently Touched-Up again.

                > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!

                >

                > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated

                > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently

                > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.

                > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.

                > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing

                > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!

                >

                > Prometheus

                >

                >

                >

                > Etznab wrote:

                > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering

                > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If

                > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art

                > leaves with them.

                >

                > Just wondering.

                >

                > Etznab

                >

                >

                > Prometheus wrote:

                >

                >

                > Hello Etznab and All,

                >

                > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

                >

                > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

                >

                >

                >

                > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

                >

                > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

                >

                > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

                >

                > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

                >

                > like: White Magic;=2
                0White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

                >

                > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

                >

                >

                >

                > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

                >

                > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

                >

                > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

                >

                > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

                >

                >

                >

                > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

                >

                > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

                >

                > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

                >

                > This is just another form of editing where Klemp

                >

                > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

                >

                > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations

                >

                > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

                >

                > believable!

                >

                >

                >

                > Prometheus

                >

                >

                >

                > etznab wrote:

                >

                >

                >

                > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

                >

                > for the new Eckankar catalog.

                >

                >

                >

                > Etznab

                >

                >

                >
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