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Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, I m thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON. HK ll want to clean-up the mistakes and
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
      Hello Etznab and All,
      I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
      with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

      HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
      (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
      add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
      March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
      like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
      Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

      Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
      define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
      have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
      the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

      And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
      But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
      need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
      This is just another form of editing where Klemp
      needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
      the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
      in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
      believable!

      Prometheus



      etznab wrote:

      I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
      for the new Eckankar catalog.

      Etznab


      Prometheus wrote:

      Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky
      versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most
      ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If
      EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy
      laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,
      according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then
      went to India.

      Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only
      makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there
      was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar
      Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told
      a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.
      That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,
      joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"
      around mid-1971.

      The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists
      and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while
      the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker
      of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those
      EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious
      Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't
      even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in
      the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't
      it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,
      who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least
      the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"
      on an individual and private basis. They never have and
      never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all
      a "joke!"

      I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or
      seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and
      protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.
      The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are
      inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to
      comply and obey. There are always those authority figures
      and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've
      become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn
      that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).
      Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more
      often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence
      and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply
      losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what
      turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that
      one has been a Seeker all along!

      Prometheus


      Jonathan wrote:

      Etznab and Mishmisha,

      I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through
      yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar
      was a fraud.

      As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another
      emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't
      sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was
      based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.

      Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is
      another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in
      something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't
      recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through
      regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things
      and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, the emotional upset and the mental anguish of discovering that one s religion was a big lie, and a con, is disappointing and
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
        Hello Jonathan and All,
        Yes, the emotional upset and the mental anguish
        of discovering that one's religion was a big lie, and
        a con, is disappointing and hurtful. One places their
        trust in the words of authority figures who are seen
        as more "spiritually advanced," and in one's own inner
        experiences. Then, when the follower/seeker opens
        their mind to other possibilities and questions the
        contradictions they begin to "see" the Truth. The trust
        in the imagined worlds they have helped to create
        begins to fracture and is eventually shattered. Thus,
        it now becomes difficult to hang onto any real truths.

        One has to ask, What is Truth? Truth is God! And It
        is our own personal and private relationship Without
        the need for someone else to intervene or interpret
        these revelations/experiences of Truth for us.

        On Discovering the Truth About ECKankar:

        There is a danger of developing a disbelief in all things!
        One must Not Lose their Sense of Wonder, although,
        one's "innocence" will certainly be affected. However,
        one can still keep an Open Mind and see the Glass as
        Half-Full. Thus, that Loss of Innocence can be seen as
        a good thing and as "spiritual maturity." One just needs
        to "Keep the Faith in One's Self" and in ALL THAT IS,
        SPIRIT, the FORCE, i.e. SPIRIT, TRUTH, or whatever we
        call IT.

        Religion is, of course, a fraud. It's a Group Belief with
        a Leader that is placed far above his followers and High
        upon a pedestal (M/LEM). And, there are always "carrots"
        that are "dangled" in front of these followers to keep them
        in line, under control, and desiring more. More rewards
        are promised on the "inner" invisible planes of heaven
        and for the next lifetime for Soul (after one's physical
        death of course). the negatives in life are explained away
        as tests and karma while the positives are seen as coming
        from the blessings and intervention of the religious leader.

        Thus, ECKists can only imagine (as the mind naturally
        does) anything that makes them happy and that alleviates
        their natural fears. Then, when this religious delusion
        is shattered, with Reality and Truth, one can become
        disheartened with deception via another religion that
        has become a business. True, some religious cons have
        changed and matured over the years, but all are meant
        to give crumbs of hope to certain like-minded groups
        of individuals. Religions, and their leaders, make money
        and have power which is used to control and manipulate
        the followers.

        The journey, toward the goal, requires one to develop
        their own private "religion."

        This is what Twitchell's "Cliff-Hanger" started out
        to be until Gail encouraged the liar Twit to "share
        it" and "Sell it" to others! Perhaps Twit rationalized
        as Klemp has. This "ECKankar" belief was helping
        those who had rejected the lies and myth of the
        Orthodox (mostly Christian) Religions of their youth.

        See, if religion can remove the fear of death and
        the fear of the unknown and can give the mind peace
        and reassurance through Belief and Faith (along with
        high principles to live by) via the use of the imagination
        then one is doing good for mankind! This is how Klemp
        rationalizes his lies. But, look at the harm he is doing
        with his threats, and to those who are being mislead
        and don't need his religion any longer. HK's threats
        no longer make him a "benevolent dictator" as he likes
        to view himself.

        Klemp sees himself as doing a benefit to Mankind
        (as a KAL agent) by sorting the wheat from the chaff.

        In others words, the ECKankar religion can be seen
        as a "test" for Soul (all religions are a test for Soul).
        Those Souls who are weaker and in need of more time
        and experience (to "cook"), in order to drop their egos
        and desires will need more EK initiations, status, and
        thus, more time to mature. These long-time ECKists
        need much more time and experience in the religion
        before discovering their TRUE nature, Self-confidence,
        individuality and Mastership, and their Oneness with Spirit.

        I admire David Lane and Ford Johnson for their tenacity
        and dedication to uncovering the lies and deceit of ECKankar.

        These two people (Lane and Johnson) helped me and other
        EK Higher Initiates with 25 plus years to pass our "test" and
        "wake-up" in order to see the Truth and leave EK. Even those
        35 plus year 7th Initiates who had finally awakened and left
        ECKankar were brave enough and ego-free enough to leave.
        I will say that I just wasn't as strong or mature to let go of
        religion until I had years of accumulating insight and experience
        via the ECKankar experience and Klemp's fraud.

        Of course, there's another perspective that there was No "KAL"
        or "test" because the belief in the KAL (Devil, Satan) is just another
        Myth of religion.

        Many have remained in ECKankar because of family
        and friend connections (attachments) and, of course,
        due to Ego!

        However, Twitch, in his "Shariyat Book Two, Ch 12"
        gives 7ths a hint, and a choice, as to what they can
        now, finally, do. "He now has the right to choose
        whether he will pursue the rest of the way on the
        path of Eckankar."

        However, for those 7ths who still have some weakness
        (fears) with attachments to strong egos and who haven't
        realized that it was a KAL "test" PT states, "There are five
        more initiations for him to take before entering the circle
        of the Adepts.."

        Thus, (religion) ECKankar is not just Twitchell's joke,
        it is also KAL's! Sometimes old sayings have some
        truth in them... "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!"
        And, "Keep the Faith," but in your own SELF!

        Prometheus


        Jonathan wrote:

        Etznab and Mishmisha,

        I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that
        I went through yesterday. They both have to do with
        when I discovered that Eckankar was a fraud.

        As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me
        that another emotion that came up yesterday was
        "disappointment." That doesn't sound like a severe
        emotion for finding out that your religion was based
        on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday
        too.

        Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence,"
        but that is another emotion that commonly comes up
        when someone believes in something and then the rug
        is pulled out from under them. I don't recall whether
        "loss of innocence" is something that I went through
        regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some
        other things and that can be a very overpowering emotion
        to go through.


        [Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious]

        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Etznab and All,
        I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
        with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

        HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
        (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
        add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
        March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
        like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
        Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

        Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
        define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
        have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
        the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

        And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
        But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
        need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
        This is just another form of editing where Klemp
        needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
        the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
        in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
        believable!

        Prometheus



        etznab wrote:

        I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
        for the new Eckankar catalog.

        Etznab


        [Followers versus Seekers]

        Prometheus wrote:

        Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky
        versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most
        ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If
        EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy
        laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,
        according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then
        went to India.

        Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only
        makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there
        was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar
        Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told
        a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.
        That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,
        joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"
        around mid-1971.

        The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists
        and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while
        the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker
        of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those
        EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious
        Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't
        even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in
        the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't
        it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,
        who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least
        the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"
        on an individual and private basis. They never have and
        never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all
        a "joke!"

        I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or
        seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and
        protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.
        The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are
        inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to
        comply and obey. There are always those authority figures
        and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've
        become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn
        that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).
        Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more
        often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence
        and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply
        losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what
        turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that
        one has been a Seeker all along!

        Prometheus
      • etznab@aol.com
        About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art leaves with them. Just
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
          About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
          if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
          old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
          leaves with them.

          Just wondering.

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:01 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious



          Hello Etznab and All,

          I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

          with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.



          HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

          (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

          add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

          March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

          like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

          Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.



          Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

          define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

          have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

          the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!



          And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

          But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

          need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

          This is just another form of editing where Klemp

          needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

          the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imagin
          ations

          in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

          believable!



          Prometheus



          etznab wrote:



          I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

          for the new Eckankar catalog.



          Etznab



          Prometheus wrote:



          Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky

          versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most

          ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If

          EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy

          laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,

          according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then

          went to India.



          Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only

          makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there

          was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar

          Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told

          a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.

          That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,

          joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"

          around mid-1971.



          The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists

          and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while

          the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker

          of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those

          EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious

          Fo
          llowers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't

          even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in

          the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't

          it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,

          who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least

          the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"

          on an individual and private basis. They never have and

          never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all

          a "joke!"



          I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or

          seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and

          protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.

          The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are

          inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to

          comply and obey. There are always those authority figures

          and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've

          become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn

          that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).

          Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more

          often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence

          and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply

          losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what

          turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that

          one has been a Seeker all a
          long!



          Prometheus



          Jonathan wrote:



          Etznab and Mishmisha,



          I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through

          yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar

          was a fraud.



          As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another

          emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't

          sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was

          based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.



          Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is

          another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in

          something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't

          recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through

          regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things

          and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab and All, It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters, by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar and, thus, still belong to ECKankar.
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
            Hello Etznab and All,
            It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
            by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
            and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
            images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
            too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
            descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
            pictures.

            In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
            left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
            Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!

            I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
            in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
            HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
            In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
            When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
            a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!

            Prometheus



            Etznab wrote:
            About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
            if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
            old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
            leaves with them.

            Just wondering.

            Etznab


            Prometheus wrote:


            Hello Etznab and All,

            I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

            with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.



            HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

            (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

            add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

            March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

            like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

            Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.



            Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

            define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

            have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

            the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!



            And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

            But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

            need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

            This is just another form of editing where Klemp

            needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

            the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations

            in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

            believable!



            Prometheus



            etznab wrote:



            I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

            for the new Eckankar catalog.



            Etznab



            Prometheus wrote:



            Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky

            versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most

            ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If

            EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy

            laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,

            according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then

            went to India.



            Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only

            makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there

            was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar

            Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told

            a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.

            That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,

            joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"

            around mid-1971.



            The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists

            and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while

            the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker

            of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those

            EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious

            Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't

            even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in

            the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't

            it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,

            who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least

            the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"

            on an individual and private basis. They never have and

            never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all

            a "joke!"



            I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or

            seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and

            protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.

            The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are

            inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to

            comply and obey. There are always those authority figures

            and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've

            become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn

            that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).

            Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more

            often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence

            and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply

            losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what

            turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that

            one has been a Seeker all along!



            Prometheus



            Jonathan wrote:



            Etznab and Mishmisha,



            I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through

            yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar

            was a fraud.



            As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another

            emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't

            sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was

            based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.



            Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is

            another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in

            something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't

            recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through

            regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things

            and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
          • jonathanjohns96
            All, Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross book Your Right To Know (copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings of Eck masters:
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
              All,

              Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross' book "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz, Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs [sic]. They pretty much look the way they "should" look. I would say the quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states "Ink sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these predate Diane Stanleys artwork or not.

              Jonathan


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
              > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
              > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
              > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
              > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
              > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
              > pictures.
              >
              > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
              > left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
              > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!
              >
              > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
              > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
              > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
              > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
              > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
              > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > Etznab wrote:
              > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
              > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
              > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
              > leaves with them.
              >
              > Just wondering.
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              >
              > Prometheus wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              >
              > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
              >
              > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.
              >
              >
              >
              > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
              >
              > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
              >
              > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
              >
              > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
              >
              > like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
              >
              > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.
              >
              >
              >
              > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
              >
              > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
              >
              > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
              >
              > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!
              >
              >
              >
              > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
              >
              > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
              >
              > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
              >
              > This is just another form of editing where Klemp
              >
              > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
              >
              > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
              >
              > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
              >
              > believable!
              >
              >
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > etznab wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
              >
              > for the new Eckankar catalog.
              >
              >
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, I remember Helen s sketches. I think she was the one that came up with the currently used EK symbol versus the Greek looking
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 4, 2009
                Hello Jonathan and All,
                Yes, I remember Helen's sketches. I think she
                was the one that came up with the currently
                used "EK" symbol versus the Greek looking
                letters. I remember her telling me once that
                she was in HK's Satsang Class, in Las Vegas,
                and that Harry was the Arahata.

                BTW- When compared to the recent pics
                of Yaubl and Fubbi how do Helen's sketches
                differ? What changes have been made in their
                appearances between then and now? Are they
                turning younger like Benjamin Button? If so,
                that would be like in the movie!

                Prometheus



                Jonathan wrote:
                All,

                Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin
                Gross' book "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there
                are four ink line drawings of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz,
                Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs [sic]. They pretty
                much look the way they "should" look. I would say the
                quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states
                "Ink sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these
                predate Diane Stanleys artwork or not.

                Jonathan


                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
                > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
                > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
                > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
                > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
                > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
                > pictures.
                >
                > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
                > left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
                > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!
                >
                > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
                > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
                > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
                > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
                > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
                > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                >
                > Etznab wrote:
                > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
                > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
                > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
                > leaves with them.
                >
                > Just wondering.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                >
                > Prometheus wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                >
                > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
                >
                > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.
                >
                >
                >
                > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
                >
                > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
                >
                > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
                >
                > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
                >
                > like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
                >
                > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.
                >
                >
                >
                > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
                >
                > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
                >
                > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
                >
                > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!
                >
                >
                >
                > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
                >
                > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
                >
                > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
                >
                > This is just another form of editing where Klemp
                >
                > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
                >
                > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
                >
                > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
                >
                > believable!
                >
                >
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
                >
                > for the new Eckankar catalog.
                >
                >
                >
                > Etznab
              • etznab@aol.com
                Jonathan, That s one book I don t have, but thanks for sharing that. Etznab ... From: jonathanjohns96 To:
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 4, 2009
                  Jonathan,

                  That's one book I don't have, but thanks
                  for sharing that.

                  Etznab

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: jonathanjohns96 <jonathanjohns96@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 8:57 pm
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Make-Over and Touch-Up of
                  the EK Masters



                  All,



                  Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross' book
                  "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings
                  of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz, Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs
                  [sic]. They pretty much look the way they "should" look. I would say
                  the quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states "Ink
                  sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these predate Diane
                  Stanleys artwork or not.



                  Jonathan



                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                  <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > Hello Etznab and All,

                  > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,

                  > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar

                  > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the

                  > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted

                  > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's

                  > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their

                  > pictures.

                  >

                  > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley

                  > left ECKankar and20were recently Touched-Up again.

                  > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!

                  >

                  > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated

                  > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently

                  > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.

                  > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.

                  > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing

                  > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!

                  >

                  > Prometheus

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Etznab wrote:

                  > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering

                  > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If

                  > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art

                  > leaves with them.

                  >

                  > Just wondering.

                  >

                  > Etznab

                  >

                  >

                  > Prometheus wrote:

                  >

                  >

                  > Hello Etznab and All,

                  >

                  > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

                  >

                  > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

                  >

                  > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

                  >

                  > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

                  >

                  > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

                  >

                  > like: White Magic;=2
                  0White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

                  >

                  > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

                  >

                  > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

                  >

                  > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

                  >

                  > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

                  >

                  > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

                  >

                  > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

                  >

                  > This is just another form of editing where Klemp

                  >

                  > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

                  >

                  > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations

                  >

                  > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

                  >

                  > believable!

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Prometheus

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > etznab wrote:

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

                  >

                  > for the new Eckankar catalog.

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Etznab

                  >

                  >

                  >
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