Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "Paul Twitchell played jokes on us."

Expand Messages
  • etznab@aol.com
    Jonathan, Just do what I do and use the shortened form, Mish. If I tried to spell out the long version I d probably have made Mishmash, too :) Thanks for the
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 2, 2009
      Jonathan,

      Just do what I do and use the shortened form, Mish.
      If I tried to spell out the long version I'd probably have
      made Mishmash, too :)

      Thanks for the humor you two! I get a kick out of
      some of the funny things I read in groups at times.

      Etznab


      -----Original Message-----
      From: jonathanjohns96 <jonathanjohns96@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 8:35 am
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "Paul Twitchell played jokes
      on us."






      Mishmisha,

      Thanks for your understanding. I will remember that "mishmisha" is
      apricot in Arabic.

      I'd rather forget about my goofup, but I think mishmash was
      describing my state of mind and emotions yesterday as I was healing
      all of this Eckankar-induced trauma.

      Also, as soon as I realized my mistake on that post I was saying to
      myself "How could I have been so stupid! "How could I have been so
      stupid!" which was exactly how I felt when I found out about the lies
      in Eckankar. So that mistake on your name was really another healing
      for me. It shows how spirit continues to work with me even after
      leaving Eckankar.

      Jonathan

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jonathan--no problem about the name mix up. Kind of funny
      > really, but in Arabic Mishmisha means apricot! Maybe that will
      > help you keep it sorted out! : )
      >
      > I can well imagine the emotions you are going through right now.
      > I know I felt pretty stupid about my involvement in the cult. Can't
      > believe I fell for it either. However, it has broadened my
      perceptions
      > about religions in general and a lot of other things. I hang around
      > here because I do value Truth, and sharing the "eck" experience in
      > an open and honest way . . . just might help some others to think
      > about theirs as well.
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > --- In
      EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
      > <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Mish,
      > >
      > > I just noticed that I thoroughly messed up your
      name "mishmisha9."
      > > Sorry about that. I must have seen the name "mishmash" on another
      > > message board and it got stuck in my brain. If you knew how much
      I've
      > > been through today you would know how well my brain and emotions
      are
      > > fried. I really found it very difficult to even make this post,
      but I
      > > wanted to respond to your's and Etznab's posts before too much
      time
      > > went by.
      > >
      > > I'm going to make a big sign and put it on my wall to remind me
      of your
      > > name because that always seems to be the only way I can
      straighten
      > > something like this out.
      > >
      > > Jonathan
      > >
      >
    • etznab@aol.com
      I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover for the new Eckankar catalog. Etznab ... From: prometheus_973 To:
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 2, 2009
        I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
        for the new Eckankar catalog.

        Etznab


        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 9:47 am
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Seekers versus Followers






        Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky
        versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most
        ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If
        EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy
        laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,
        according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then
        went to India.

        Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only
        makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there
        was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar
        Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told
        a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.
        That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,
        joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"
        around mid-1971.

        The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists
        and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while
        the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker
        of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those
        EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious
        Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't
        even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in
        the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't
        it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,
        who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least
        the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"
        on an individual and private basis. They never have and
        never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all
        a "joke!"

        I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or
        seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and
        protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.
        The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are
        inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to
        comply and obey. There are always those authority figures
        and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've
        become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn
        that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).
        Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more
        often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence
        and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply
        losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what
        turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that
        one has been a Seeker all along!

        Prometheus


        Jonathan wrote:

        Etznab and Mishmisha,

        I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through
        yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar
        was a fraud.

        As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another
        emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't
        sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was
        based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.

        Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is
        another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in
        something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't
        recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through
        regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things
        and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, I m thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON. HK ll want to clean-up the mistakes and
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
          Hello Etznab and All,
          I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
          with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

          HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
          (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
          add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
          March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
          like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
          Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

          Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
          define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
          have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
          the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

          And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
          But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
          need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
          This is just another form of editing where Klemp
          needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
          the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
          in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
          believable!

          Prometheus



          etznab wrote:

          I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
          for the new Eckankar catalog.

          Etznab


          Prometheus wrote:

          Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky
          versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most
          ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If
          EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy
          laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,
          according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then
          went to India.

          Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only
          makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there
          was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar
          Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told
          a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.
          That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,
          joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"
          around mid-1971.

          The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists
          and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while
          the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker
          of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those
          EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious
          Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't
          even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in
          the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't
          it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,
          who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least
          the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"
          on an individual and private basis. They never have and
          never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all
          a "joke!"

          I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or
          seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and
          protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.
          The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are
          inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to
          comply and obey. There are always those authority figures
          and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've
          become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn
          that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).
          Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more
          often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence
          and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply
          losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what
          turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that
          one has been a Seeker all along!

          Prometheus


          Jonathan wrote:

          Etznab and Mishmisha,

          I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through
          yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar
          was a fraud.

          As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another
          emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't
          sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was
          based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.

          Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is
          another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in
          something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't
          recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through
          regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things
          and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, the emotional upset and the mental anguish of discovering that one s religion was a big lie, and a con, is disappointing and
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
            Hello Jonathan and All,
            Yes, the emotional upset and the mental anguish
            of discovering that one's religion was a big lie, and
            a con, is disappointing and hurtful. One places their
            trust in the words of authority figures who are seen
            as more "spiritually advanced," and in one's own inner
            experiences. Then, when the follower/seeker opens
            their mind to other possibilities and questions the
            contradictions they begin to "see" the Truth. The trust
            in the imagined worlds they have helped to create
            begins to fracture and is eventually shattered. Thus,
            it now becomes difficult to hang onto any real truths.

            One has to ask, What is Truth? Truth is God! And It
            is our own personal and private relationship Without
            the need for someone else to intervene or interpret
            these revelations/experiences of Truth for us.

            On Discovering the Truth About ECKankar:

            There is a danger of developing a disbelief in all things!
            One must Not Lose their Sense of Wonder, although,
            one's "innocence" will certainly be affected. However,
            one can still keep an Open Mind and see the Glass as
            Half-Full. Thus, that Loss of Innocence can be seen as
            a good thing and as "spiritual maturity." One just needs
            to "Keep the Faith in One's Self" and in ALL THAT IS,
            SPIRIT, the FORCE, i.e. SPIRIT, TRUTH, or whatever we
            call IT.

            Religion is, of course, a fraud. It's a Group Belief with
            a Leader that is placed far above his followers and High
            upon a pedestal (M/LEM). And, there are always "carrots"
            that are "dangled" in front of these followers to keep them
            in line, under control, and desiring more. More rewards
            are promised on the "inner" invisible planes of heaven
            and for the next lifetime for Soul (after one's physical
            death of course). the negatives in life are explained away
            as tests and karma while the positives are seen as coming
            from the blessings and intervention of the religious leader.

            Thus, ECKists can only imagine (as the mind naturally
            does) anything that makes them happy and that alleviates
            their natural fears. Then, when this religious delusion
            is shattered, with Reality and Truth, one can become
            disheartened with deception via another religion that
            has become a business. True, some religious cons have
            changed and matured over the years, but all are meant
            to give crumbs of hope to certain like-minded groups
            of individuals. Religions, and their leaders, make money
            and have power which is used to control and manipulate
            the followers.

            The journey, toward the goal, requires one to develop
            their own private "religion."

            This is what Twitchell's "Cliff-Hanger" started out
            to be until Gail encouraged the liar Twit to "share
            it" and "Sell it" to others! Perhaps Twit rationalized
            as Klemp has. This "ECKankar" belief was helping
            those who had rejected the lies and myth of the
            Orthodox (mostly Christian) Religions of their youth.

            See, if religion can remove the fear of death and
            the fear of the unknown and can give the mind peace
            and reassurance through Belief and Faith (along with
            high principles to live by) via the use of the imagination
            then one is doing good for mankind! This is how Klemp
            rationalizes his lies. But, look at the harm he is doing
            with his threats, and to those who are being mislead
            and don't need his religion any longer. HK's threats
            no longer make him a "benevolent dictator" as he likes
            to view himself.

            Klemp sees himself as doing a benefit to Mankind
            (as a KAL agent) by sorting the wheat from the chaff.

            In others words, the ECKankar religion can be seen
            as a "test" for Soul (all religions are a test for Soul).
            Those Souls who are weaker and in need of more time
            and experience (to "cook"), in order to drop their egos
            and desires will need more EK initiations, status, and
            thus, more time to mature. These long-time ECKists
            need much more time and experience in the religion
            before discovering their TRUE nature, Self-confidence,
            individuality and Mastership, and their Oneness with Spirit.

            I admire David Lane and Ford Johnson for their tenacity
            and dedication to uncovering the lies and deceit of ECKankar.

            These two people (Lane and Johnson) helped me and other
            EK Higher Initiates with 25 plus years to pass our "test" and
            "wake-up" in order to see the Truth and leave EK. Even those
            35 plus year 7th Initiates who had finally awakened and left
            ECKankar were brave enough and ego-free enough to leave.
            I will say that I just wasn't as strong or mature to let go of
            religion until I had years of accumulating insight and experience
            via the ECKankar experience and Klemp's fraud.

            Of course, there's another perspective that there was No "KAL"
            or "test" because the belief in the KAL (Devil, Satan) is just another
            Myth of religion.

            Many have remained in ECKankar because of family
            and friend connections (attachments) and, of course,
            due to Ego!

            However, Twitch, in his "Shariyat Book Two, Ch 12"
            gives 7ths a hint, and a choice, as to what they can
            now, finally, do. "He now has the right to choose
            whether he will pursue the rest of the way on the
            path of Eckankar."

            However, for those 7ths who still have some weakness
            (fears) with attachments to strong egos and who haven't
            realized that it was a KAL "test" PT states, "There are five
            more initiations for him to take before entering the circle
            of the Adepts.."

            Thus, (religion) ECKankar is not just Twitchell's joke,
            it is also KAL's! Sometimes old sayings have some
            truth in them... "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!"
            And, "Keep the Faith," but in your own SELF!

            Prometheus


            Jonathan wrote:

            Etznab and Mishmisha,

            I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that
            I went through yesterday. They both have to do with
            when I discovered that Eckankar was a fraud.

            As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me
            that another emotion that came up yesterday was
            "disappointment." That doesn't sound like a severe
            emotion for finding out that your religion was based
            on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday
            too.

            Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence,"
            but that is another emotion that commonly comes up
            when someone believes in something and then the rug
            is pulled out from under them. I don't recall whether
            "loss of innocence" is something that I went through
            regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some
            other things and that can be a very overpowering emotion
            to go through.


            [Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious]

            prometheus wrote:

            Hello Etznab and All,
            I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
            with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

            HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
            (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
            add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
            March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
            like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
            Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

            Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
            define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
            have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
            the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

            And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
            But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
            need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
            This is just another form of editing where Klemp
            needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
            the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
            in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
            believable!

            Prometheus



            etznab wrote:

            I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
            for the new Eckankar catalog.

            Etznab


            [Followers versus Seekers]

            Prometheus wrote:

            Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky
            versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most
            ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If
            EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy
            laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,
            according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then
            went to India.

            Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only
            makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there
            was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar
            Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told
            a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.
            That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,
            joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"
            around mid-1971.

            The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists
            and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while
            the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker
            of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those
            EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious
            Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't
            even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in
            the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't
            it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,
            who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least
            the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"
            on an individual and private basis. They never have and
            never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all
            a "joke!"

            I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or
            seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and
            protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.
            The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are
            inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to
            comply and obey. There are always those authority figures
            and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've
            become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn
            that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).
            Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more
            often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence
            and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply
            losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what
            turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that
            one has been a Seeker all along!

            Prometheus
          • etznab@aol.com
            About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art leaves with them. Just
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
              About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
              if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
              old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
              leaves with them.

              Just wondering.

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 12:01 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp - Mr. Obvious/Oblivious



              Hello Etznab and All,

              I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

              with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.



              HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

              (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

              add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

              March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

              like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

              Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.



              Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

              define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

              have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

              the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!



              And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

              But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

              need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

              This is just another form of editing where Klemp

              needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

              the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imagin
              ations

              in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

              believable!



              Prometheus



              etznab wrote:



              I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

              for the new Eckankar catalog.



              Etznab



              Prometheus wrote:



              Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky

              versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most

              ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If

              EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy

              laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,

              according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then

              went to India.



              Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only

              makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there

              was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar

              Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told

              a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.

              That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,

              joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"

              around mid-1971.



              The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists

              and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while

              the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker

              of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those

              EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious

              Fo
              llowers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't

              even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in

              the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't

              it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,

              who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least

              the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"

              on an individual and private basis. They never have and

              never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all

              a "joke!"



              I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or

              seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and

              protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.

              The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are

              inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to

              comply and obey. There are always those authority figures

              and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've

              become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn

              that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).

              Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more

              often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence

              and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply

              losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what

              turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that

              one has been a Seeker all a
              long!



              Prometheus



              Jonathan wrote:



              Etznab and Mishmisha,



              I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through

              yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar

              was a fraud.



              As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another

              emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't

              sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was

              based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.



              Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is

              another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in

              something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't

              recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through

              regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things

              and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab and All, It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters, by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar and, thus, still belong to ECKankar.
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
                Hello Etznab and All,
                It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
                by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
                and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
                images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
                too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
                descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
                pictures.

                In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
                left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
                Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!

                I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
                in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
                HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
                In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
                When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
                a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!

                Prometheus



                Etznab wrote:
                About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
                if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
                old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
                leaves with them.

                Just wondering.

                Etznab


                Prometheus wrote:


                Hello Etznab and All,

                I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

                with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.



                HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

                (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

                add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

                March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

                like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

                Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.



                Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

                define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

                have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

                the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!



                And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

                But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

                need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

                This is just another form of editing where Klemp

                needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

                the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations

                in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

                believable!



                Prometheus



                etznab wrote:



                I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

                for the new Eckankar catalog.



                Etznab



                Prometheus wrote:



                Yes, PT visiting his sister (Kay-Dee) in Paris, Kentucky

                versus Paris, France is a more significant lie than most

                ECKists what to admit, or to examine more closely. If

                EK chelas realized the greater implications their giddy

                laughter might turn into a nervous laughter. You see,

                according to Paul, after he met K.D. in "Paris" he then

                went to India.



                Well, since "Paris, France" was a lie (joke) then it only

                makes sense that going to India was too! Thus, there

                was never a meeting up with LEM Sudar Singh, or Rebazar

                Tarzs. Now most ECKists will say that this "joke" was told

                a long time ago way before Twitchell became the Mahanta.

                That's not true! Twitchell recounts this story (i.e. lie,

                joke) in "Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master"

                around mid-1971.



                The reason why PT's & HK's lies bother some ECKists

                and not others is because some a Truth Seekers while

                the rest are Religious Followers. I've always been a Seeker

                of Truth even before, during and after ECKankar. Those

                EKists who close their eyes, ears, and minds are Religious

                Followers who need to believe in Myth! These EKists don't

                even realize that if a/the "Master" did "appear" to them in

                the "physical" that it would be in an Astral Body! And, isn't

                it strange that Rebazar and the other ancient EK Masters,

                who still have physical bodies, can't manifest for at least

                the H.I. Meeting at an EK Seminar! They can only "appear"

                on an individual and private basis. They never have and

                never will appear to a group of ECKists because it's all

                a "joke!"



                I think that the reason for most ECKists Not hearing or

                seeing the Truth is because their egos are too strong and

                protective. And, the fact that most people want to believe.

                The problem is that we are taught to be followers. We are

                inundated with rules at a very early age and are taught to

                comply and obey. There are always those authority figures

                and experts who know more than we do, at least until we've

                become more "educated" and have matured. One has to learn

                that there are no absolutes (except for decay of the physical).

                Still, what turns a Follower into a Leader? Normally, and more

                often than not, it's a combination of charisma, ego, intelligence

                and power. What turns a Seeker into a Follower? It's simply

                losing one's way and sleep walking through life! And, what

                turns a Follower into a Seeker? Perhaps it's realizing that

                one has been a Seeker all along!



                Prometheus



                Jonathan wrote:



                Etznab and Mishmisha,



                I have a little bit more discussion on emotions that I went through

                yesterday. They both have to do with when I discovered that Eckankar

                was a fraud.



                As I was falling asleep last night it occurred to me that another

                emotion that came up yesterday was "disappointment." That doesn't

                sound like a severe emotion for finding out that your religion was

                based on lies, but believe it or not, that came up yesterday too.



                Something that didn't come up was "loss of innocence," but that is

                another emotion that commonly comes up when someone believes in

                something and then the rug is pulled out from under them. I don't

                recall whether "loss of innocence" is something that I went through

                regarding Eckankar, but I heve been through if for some other things

                and that can be a very overpowering emotion to go through.
              • jonathanjohns96
                All, Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross book Your Right To Know (copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings of Eck masters:
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 3, 2009
                  All,

                  Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross' book "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz, Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs [sic]. They pretty much look the way they "should" look. I would say the quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states "Ink sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these predate Diane Stanleys artwork or not.

                  Jonathan


                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
                  > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
                  > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
                  > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
                  > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
                  > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
                  > pictures.
                  >
                  > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
                  > left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
                  > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!
                  >
                  > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
                  > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
                  > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
                  > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
                  > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
                  > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Etznab wrote:
                  > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
                  > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
                  > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
                  > leaves with them.
                  >
                  > Just wondering.
                  >
                  > Etznab
                  >
                  >
                  > Prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello Etznab and All,
                  >
                  > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
                  >
                  > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
                  >
                  > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
                  >
                  > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
                  >
                  > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
                  >
                  > like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
                  >
                  > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
                  >
                  > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
                  >
                  > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
                  >
                  > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
                  >
                  > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
                  >
                  > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
                  >
                  > This is just another form of editing where Klemp
                  >
                  > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
                  >
                  > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
                  >
                  > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
                  >
                  > believable!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > etznab wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
                  >
                  > for the new Eckankar catalog.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Etznab
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, I remember Helen s sketches. I think she was the one that came up with the currently used EK symbol versus the Greek looking
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 4, 2009
                    Hello Jonathan and All,
                    Yes, I remember Helen's sketches. I think she
                    was the one that came up with the currently
                    used "EK" symbol versus the Greek looking
                    letters. I remember her telling me once that
                    she was in HK's Satsang Class, in Las Vegas,
                    and that Harry was the Arahata.

                    BTW- When compared to the recent pics
                    of Yaubl and Fubbi how do Helen's sketches
                    differ? What changes have been made in their
                    appearances between then and now? Are they
                    turning younger like Benjamin Button? If so,
                    that would be like in the movie!

                    Prometheus



                    Jonathan wrote:
                    All,

                    Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin
                    Gross' book "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there
                    are four ink line drawings of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz,
                    Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs [sic]. They pretty
                    much look the way they "should" look. I would say the
                    quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states
                    "Ink sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these
                    predate Diane Stanleys artwork or not.

                    Jonathan


                    prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Etznab and All,
                    > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,
                    > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar
                    > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the
                    > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted
                    > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's
                    > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their
                    > pictures.
                    >
                    > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley
                    > left ECKankar and were recently Touched-Up again.
                    > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!
                    >
                    > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated
                    > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently
                    > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.
                    > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.
                    > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing
                    > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Etznab wrote:
                    > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering
                    > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If
                    > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art
                    > leaves with them.
                    >
                    > Just wondering.
                    >
                    > Etznab
                    >
                    >
                    > Prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Hello Etznab and All,
                    >
                    > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out
                    >
                    > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights
                    >
                    > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and
                    >
                    > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the
                    >
                    > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)
                    >
                    > like: White Magic; White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray
                    >
                    > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also
                    >
                    > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch
                    >
                    > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since
                    >
                    > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!
                    >
                    > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,
                    >
                    > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!
                    >
                    > This is just another form of editing where Klemp
                    >
                    > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances
                    >
                    > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations
                    >
                    > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,
                    >
                    > believable!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > etznab wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover
                    >
                    > for the new Eckankar catalog.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Etznab
                  • etznab@aol.com
                    Jonathan, That s one book I don t have, but thanks for sharing that. Etznab ... From: jonathanjohns96 To:
                    Message 9 of 21 , Mar 4, 2009
                      Jonathan,

                      That's one book I don't have, but thanks
                      for sharing that.

                      Etznab

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: jonathanjohns96 <jonathanjohns96@...>
                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 8:57 pm
                      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Make-Over and Touch-Up of
                      the EK Masters



                      All,



                      Just thought I would add my two cents worth. In Darwin Gross' book
                      "Your Right To Know"(copyright 1979) there are four ink line drawings
                      of Eck masters: Fubbi Quantz, Gopal Das, Lai Tsi, and Rebazar Tarzs
                      [sic]. They pretty much look the way they "should" look. I would say
                      the quality of the drawings is very high. On page ii it states "Ink
                      sketches by Helen Baird." I don't know whether these predate Diane
                      Stanleys artwork or not.



                      Jonathan



                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                      >

                      > Hello Etznab and All,

                      > It could be that the oldest pics of the EK Masters,

                      > by Diane Stanley, were commissioned by ECKankar

                      > and, thus, still belong to ECKankar. After all, the

                      > images of these EK Masters are probably copyrighted

                      > too! I don't know. But, it is interesting that PT's

                      > descriptions of Yaubl & Fubbi simply don't fit their

                      > pictures.

                      >

                      > In any case the pics were redone after Diane Stanley

                      > left ECKankar and20were recently Touched-Up again.

                      > Actually, it was more of a Face-Lift than a Make-Over!

                      >

                      > I'm just waiting for Klemp's "official" pic to be Updated

                      > in order to be accurate, realistic, and honest. Apparently

                      > HK's big fat ego has gotten the best of him once again.

                      > In real life he looks really tired, wrinkled, gray, and old.

                      > When on stage HK reminds me of a boney scarecrow wearing

                      > a new oversized suit! Either that, or HK's head is shrinking!

                      >

                      > Prometheus

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Etznab wrote:

                      > About the MAKE-OVER, I was wondering

                      > if maybe new artists equals new pictures. If

                      > old artists leave Eckankar, whether their art

                      > leaves with them.

                      >

                      > Just wondering.

                      >

                      > Etznab

                      >

                      >

                      > Prometheus wrote:

                      >

                      >

                      > Hello Etznab and All,

                      >

                      > I'm thinking that Klemp will soon be coming out

                      >

                      > with a newly revised version of his EK LexiCON.

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > HK'll want to "clean-up" the mistakes and oversights

                      >

                      > (of PT's EK Dictionary) from his 1998 copyright, and

                      >

                      > add some new terms that he's used recently (in the

                      >

                      > March 2009 Ask the Master Q&A, The EK Mystic World)

                      >

                      > like: White Magic;=2
                      0White Karma; Gray Magic and Gray

                      >

                      > Karma, with lines and degrees of demarcation, etc.

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Perhaps, Mr. Obvious/Oblivious (Klemp), will also

                      >

                      > define the "fibs" and "white lies" that he and Twitch

                      >

                      > have told as a form of (positive) 'White Karma' since

                      >

                      > the end result is doing "Good" (especially for himself)!

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > And Yes, the EK Masters did get a MAKE-OVER!

                      >

                      > But, Why did the EK Masters, of Twitchell's creation,

                      >

                      > need another Make-Over? It's all about appearance!

                      >

                      > This is just another form of editing where Klemp

                      >

                      > needs to add his own KAL-like touch. This enhances

                      >

                      > the Unreal for the benefit of his followers imaginations

                      >

                      > in order to make the EK con more acceptable and, thus,

                      >

                      > believable!

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Prometheus

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > etznab wrote:

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > I think the Eck Masters (some, at least) got a makeover

                      >

                      > for the new Eckankar catalog.

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Etznab

                      >

                      >

                      >
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.