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HK: "Degrees of Good Deeds & White Karma"

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, Klemp is intentionally generalizing and using vague and confusing terminology. I ve never heard either Twitchell or Klemp mention some of these
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 27, 2009
      Hello All,
      Klemp is intentionally generalizing and
      using vague and confusing terminology.
      I've never heard either Twitchell or Klemp
      mention some of these terms before. They
      aren't listed and/or defined in any prior
      ECKankar teachings or works.

      Here's a list of all the terms that Klemp
      is using in the his Mystic World answer:

      1. White Magic
      2. Grayish White Area
      3. White Karma
      4. Black Magic
      5. Black Karma
      6. Karmaless Action
      7. Degrees of Good Deeds
      8. Degrees of Retribution
      9. No Sharp Line of Demarcation
      10. Gray Area
      11. Respond Positively

      Q: "In a Q&A, you explained that when
      someone is trying to direct the ECK, it
      is a form of WHITE MAGIC.

      In another Q&A, you define it as BLACK

      HK: "Carefully consider the Context
      of such Answers."

      ME: This sounds like a disclaimer that
      leaves the door open to anything one
      can imagine!

      HK: "First of all, an ECK initiate should
      move into a position of Karmaless Action.
      That means Doing Everything in the Name
      of the Master. It is the Easy Way."

      ME: I agree that this is an awfully "easy way"
      of living a Co-dependent irresponsible life!
      What's the catch? Klemp is giving ECKists
      a blank check that will lead to even more
      delusion? Maybe that's the catch!

      Q: [1] "What is the difference between
      the two [black & white magic]?"

      HK: "WHITE MAGIC is with the intent to
      do some good. But note that it is Not done
      in the Master's name at all.

      When one's attitude drifts into thoughts
      of having Power and Control over others,
      the Deed then slips into BLACK MAGIC."

      ME: Isn't the Mahanta's Mission and the
      EK Vahana (missionary) Effort a form of
      WHITE MAGIC since the "intent (is) to do
      some good." Just because one is doing
      this work "in the Master's name" doesn't
      mean that it's Not WHITE MAGIC. After All,
      aren't the Vahanas and the new members
      rewarded with GOOD (White) KARMA!

      The same can be said about BLACK MAGIC.
      Doesn't the ESC/RESA Hierarchy have Power
      and Control over EK Chelas! Look at the
      negativity of some of the H.I.s and RESAs.
      This is why Klemp wrote his H.I. and L.I.
      Leadership books. And yet they, too, do
      their negative acts in the name of the

      Q: [2] "How does this relate to giving love
      with strings attached, as you mentioned
      in your 2008 Springtime Seminar talk?"

      HK: "Giving a gift or doing a 'kindness' is
      in the GRAYISH WHITE area of WHITE MAGIC.

      Please understand that there are Degrees
      of Good Deeds and WHITE KARMA, and so
      are there Degrees of Retribution for practicing

      So do all you giving in the Master's name."

      ME: Klemp just said that if one does anything
      "in the Master's name" that it's free of Karma!
      Now he's back peddling. And, what's this "GRAYISH
      WHITE area of WHITE MAGIC?" Klemp is so wishy
      washy! No wonder ECKists have to Second Guess
      him so much! It is interesting to see Klemp's
      lack of color vision with his Black, White, and
      Gray perspective. BTW- What are the "Degrees
      of Retribution," which equates to "WHITE KARMA,"
      for doing "Degrees of Good Deeds?" Let's face
      it, it's just more meaningless nonspecific double
      talk that leaves chelas guessing. I'd be curious
      as to how that will be interpreted in any upcoming
      "Mystic World Discussion Classes."

      Q: [3] "Is it OK, as a spiritual exercise, to
      visualize the best-case scenario of a situation?"

      HK: "YES, it is OK to expect the best outcome
      for a situation. BUT also remember to respond
      Positively to Whatever the result."

      ME: If one responds "positively" isn't that
      the same as with "White Magic" or "White Karma?"
      Aren't ECKists supposed respond, and act, Neither
      For or Against anything? Klemp must have forgotten
      this which means he's as confused as his followers!

      Q: [4] "At what point can a self-created
      spiritual exercise turn to WHITE or BLACK

      Thank you so much for clarifying this."

      HK: "Still, there is No Sharp Line of demarcation
      between BLACK and WHITE KARMA.

      There is also plenty of GRAY area. That is
      because everything is in constant flux, changing
      in some measure, either a little or a lot.

      BLACK MAGIC, at its darkest, seeks to Harm
      or Control others right at the Onset."

      ME: What did Klemp actually clarify? HK
      stated that as long as everything is done
      "in the Master's name" that it was "Karmaless,"
      but then it seems like HK forgets that his
      spiritual tidbit (catch-22) covers all exceptions.
      Now HK sees things as fuzzy, unclear, and gray!

      It seems that Klemp, also, believes that, "there
      is No Sharp Demarcation" between a lie and the
      truth, or the imagination and the Real. It's all
      now becomes a "Gray Area" via the use of very
      fuzzy logic. Yes, everyone in the world knows
      what Mr. Obvious (HK) has stated that "everything
      is in constant flux." However, Klemp's view is
      very limiting, but gives us insight into his very
      limited and lower consciousness. Klemp lives in
      a Gray World devoid of clarity, contrast, and the
      colors that are present in the White Light of the
      Higher God Worlds. He has fallen and can't get
      back up!

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