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Re: Klemp Speaks On Black/White Magic & Gray Karma

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  • prometheus_973
    Klemp is role-playing. He s also a story teller. That s code for liar. When EKists do all things in the name of the Mahanta, or Master (Klemp), and it
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 24, 2009
      Klemp is role-playing. He's also a "story" teller.
      That's code for liar. When EKists "do all things
      in the name of the Mahanta," or Master (Klemp),
      and it turns out to have negative results then
      chelas should be able to put the blame/responsibility
      on Klemp.

      ECKists should be able to blame Klemp when
      things go wrong! Comedian Flip Wilson used
      to say, "The Devil made me do it!" Some people
      will blame their bad behaviour on the "pills"
      they are taking. However, ECKists can Never
      make Klemp take responsibility when they do
      acts in his name (the Mahanta's) and it backfires!
      Why is that? In ECKankar it's a one-way street
      where the chela is always held at fault and responsible
      regardless of doing an act in the name of the
      Mahanta!

      If Klemp did have the "Power" to make chelas'
      actions Karma-less, by them doing all things
      in the name of the Mahanta, then why are there
      still both Positive and Negative results from
      their acts?

      I know that Klemp always has an excuse for chelas'
      negative results. It is seen as a "test," or maybe
      the chela's thoughts and actions were not "pure."
      However, what is the excuse when there are "positive"
      results (good Karma) when these actions (done in
      the name of the Mahanta) are supposed to be Karma-
      less?

      With Klemp, and all religious leaders, the fault always
      lies with the lowly ignorant followers. After all, they
      don't have the highest view from the top of the mountain
      as the "Master" does. HK's a 14th plus Initiate right?
      How can even a 9th initiate have a clue as to what HK
      knows and/or is capable of doing? Thus, how can
      lowly chelas know the details and the "Why," behind
      the scenes, in the upper God-Worlds of EK! However,
      why are EK Members kept in the dark of the lower plane
      financial aspects (salaries, etc.) of the physical org?

      According to EK Dogma only SUGMAD and Klemp (the
      Mahanta) know what's taking place on all Planes and
      SUGMAD won't tell! And, if SUGMAD, or SPIRIT, did
      speak to or guide EK Chelas to do something they would
      be reprimanded by Klemp! EK Chelas must, always, go
      though Klemp (the Mahanta) to have an "approved" and
      "valid" spiritual experience. Only in their Dream Journals
      can EK Chelas share similar "inner" experiences to what
      Graham Forsyth experienced. Chelas can never share these
      SUGMAD spiritual experiences, or of Being the ECK, or
      of Being an ECK Master, or allowing a Silent One to hand
      you the Rod of ECK Power in their Monthly Initiate Reports!
      Most EKists know this, and are cautious not to offend Klemp
      or raise any "red flags" with those H.I.s reading the H.I.R.O./
      I.R.O. letters. One doesn't want to be Black Listed and
      have their initiations held up for Three years or more!

      Klemp has to approve and verify (in writing or in a seminar
      talk) any and all "spiritual" experiences that chelas have!
      Top Dogs, like Klemp, say one thing, like Soul equals Soul,
      but practice the opposite. Catch-22 is the real "Key" to
      Klemp's version of the new and improved ECKankar!

      Prometheus


      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Sharon and All,
      Right! Klemp can't protect himself from EMRs, etc.,
      but chelas can call on him to prevent Karma! Does
      he block "good" karma too? He's very general about
      things and doesn't distinguish between "good" and
      "bad" Karma. Besides, how does HK (the Mahanta)
      have that much Power and Not be able to heal thyself?

      It's nonsense isn't it! HK "pushes chelas away" from
      using computers with his EMR scare tactic and then
      he "pulls" chelas back to their computers, via the
      Internet, to use them as Vahana tools! ECKankar
      has an Online Site, Broadcasts, etc.!

      Once again, this reminds me of that psychic mind
      control technique Paul mentioned in "Letters to Gail
      3." That was a push/pull technique used to confuse
      people. Plus, Paul said that it could drive them insane
      (that would be a short drive for Klemp and many of
      his followers)!

      Prometheus



      Hi Everyone!

      All this white/black magic/karma stuff is *such* nonsense, isn't it?
      And the only purpose of doing everything "in the name of the Master"
      is to keep people totally dependent, mindless cultpuppies who can't
      even imagine life without their Official Cult ID Card!!!

      Plus, it's all so totally phony considering all the nasty sniveling passive-
      aggressive stuff Klemp says about so many other things - offhand, I'm
      thinking about something he wrote about the "weeds", for example.

      I remember back when Jeffrey Dahmer was first arrested, would you
      believe I actually sat there watching the news & turning it all into a
      "divine unconditional love spiritual exercise", doing the usual eckie
      non-judgmental thing, wondering about what karma was being worked
      out there and what horrible things Dahmer's victims must've done to him
      in a past life? And another thing I did was a scenario where I imagined
      Klemp getting arrested for serial cannibal murders and how I'd need to
      probably work a bit harder, but I was sure I'd be able to keep my faith
      and "connection" to the "mahanta" no matter what!!!!

      Now, I'd like to say I've never been one of those people who gets all
      emotional & angry & wants to lynch Dahmer, etc., since I was a kid I've
      been doing the "walk in the other man's moccasins" thing just because
      human behavior is fascinating. I don't go around thinking bad things
      should happen to bad people & vice versa to any great degree, but excuse
      me, it seems like Klemp carries the unemotional & nonjudgmental thing
      to a ridiculous extreme, you know what I mean? Wish I could find the
      right words to express exactly what I mean here but I can look back and
      see just how much damage the cult does to normal emotions. Like, years
      back I remember passing car accidents & deliberately doing a detached
      undirected "hu". Well, thinking about that, that's just plain *wrong*!!
      If someone's heart doesn't react to passing a car accident and really hope
      that no one was seriously hurt, there's something very wrong. Even sociopathic.
      And it's the same with not having feelings of revulsion about things like
      child molesting or hurting innocent animals.

      Well, I'm just sort of rambling and I'm actually posting because right now
      I'm trying to avoid doing some things I really *should* be doing but don't
      feel like it, but I'm not quite yet ready to go into couch-potato mode. <gg>
      Winding down after a busy day.

      But this is what Klemp & ekult do to people, get you all wrapped up with
      silly little nit-picky things which get in the way of just "Being", and that
      true "inner" connection with your "true inner" where you can just "flow",
      you know what I mean? Good grief, it's worse than orthodox Judaism where
      they'll spend hours (or decades - or centuries!) interpreting the law, resulting
      in things like not being allowed to tear toilet paper off the roll on holy
      days, but it's okay to use individual sheets. Or to hire a Gentile to do the
      "forbidden" stuff - like plugging in your contact lens machine back in the
      days before they had that no-rub solution. Oh, just remembered something
      else, they're not allowed to turn on a light switch, either!! Many years ago
      I worked at a resort that was transformed into "holy ground" for Passover,
      and they paid big bucks for babysitters.

      While I think of recent posts here, EMRs etc., I remember years back
      when Klemp wrote about the internet and how he'd barely escaped in
      time. But on the other hand, I'd read how the internet was great for
      "vahana" work. So, I was a bit confused - if the internet was so bad and
      "negative" that Klemp Himself found it dangerous, why was he sending
      "vahanas" there, and how the heck could he "protect" us when he couldn't
      protect himself?

      Does the "mahanta" have a "mahanta"? Doesn't being in direct contact
      with Suggie help?

      Anyway, at one point at alt.religion.eckankar years back, someone
      mentioned that at one time, Klemp actually posted publicly here on
      the internet! Don't know where or what, but can you imagine Klemp
      being in a position where people might ask "live" questions? Or
      even worse, have to face former members who'd left? What a hoot!!

      EMRs or whatever *can* sort of drain you at times, but you can sort of
      just "adjust" your own vibes or whatever to deal with it. I noticed years
      back, before home PCs, it seemed like computers magnified the "vibes"
      somehow.

      Okay, just a few thoughts, I'm "wound down" now. Ekult really messes
      up your head, and I'm just *so* eternally grateful to be out, although it's
      been so long that I don't even think about it that much anymore. For
      quite awhile after I got out, hardly a day went by when I wasn't overwhelmed
      with how beautiful & clear life was again, and how thankful I was that
      I'd woken up and gotten out. Now I don't think about it, I just "enjoy"!
      Or not enjoy, if it's one of those days. <gg>

      Hope everyone had a great weekend! Think Spring!!

      Hugs,

      Sharon

      _____________________________________________________
      The Mystic World March 2009 - Ask the Master Q&A
      Posted by: "prometheus"

      Q: "In a Q&A, you explained that when
      someone is trying to direct the ECK, it
      is a form of WHITE MAGIC.

      In another Q&A, you define it as BLACK
      MAGIC.

      [1] What is the difference between the two?

      [2] How does this relate to giving love with
      strings attached, as you mentioned in your
      2008 Springtime Seminar talk?

      [3] Is it OK, as a spiritual exercise, to visualize
      the best-case scenario of a situation?

      [4] At what point can a self-created spiritual
      exercise turn to WHITE or BLACK MAGIC?

      Thank you so much for clarifying this."


      ME: I'm just wondering how Klemp will answer
      all of these questions, or will he? And, the first
      question has two parts! Isn't it ashamed that
      Klemp can't be clearer with his message and
      instructions to his chelas! Plus, where's that
      "inner" guidance and those "inner" answers?
      Nowhere! It's a scam!

      Answer-
      Klemp:

      "Carefully consider the Context of such Answers.

      First of all, an ECK initiate should move into a
      position of karmaless action. That means doing
      everything in the name of the Master.

      It is the easy way.

      WHITE MAGIC is with the intent to do some good.
      But note that it is Not done in the Master's name
      at all.

      When one's attitude drifts into thoughts of having
      Power and Control over others, the Deed then slips
      into BLACK MAGIC.

      Still, there is No Sharp Line of demarcation between
      BLACK and WHITE KARMA.

      There is also plenty of GRAY area. That is because
      everything is in constant flux, changing in some
      measure, either a little or a lot.

      BLACK MAGIC, at its darkest, seeks to Harm or
      Control others right at the Onset.

      Giving a gift or doing a 'kindness' is in the GRAYISH
      WHITE area of WHITE MAGIC.

      Please understand that there are Degrees of Good
      Deeds and WHITE KARMA, and so are there Degrees
      of Retribution for practicing them.

      So do all you giving in the Master's name.

      YES, it is OK to expect the best outcome for
      a situation. BUT also remember to respond
      Positively to Whatever the result."

      ME: Well! I'm glad Klemp cleared that up
      so that there were no "gray" areas left!

      Prometheus
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