Re: Klemp Speaks On Black/White Magic & Gray Karma
- Klemp is role-playing. He's also a "story" teller.
That's code for liar. When EKists "do all things
in the name of the Mahanta," or Master (Klemp),
and it turns out to have negative results then
chelas should be able to put the blame/responsibility
ECKists should be able to blame Klemp when
things go wrong! Comedian Flip Wilson used
to say, "The Devil made me do it!" Some people
will blame their bad behaviour on the "pills"
they are taking. However, ECKists can Never
make Klemp take responsibility when they do
acts in his name (the Mahanta's) and it backfires!
Why is that? In ECKankar it's a one-way street
where the chela is always held at fault and responsible
regardless of doing an act in the name of the
If Klemp did have the "Power" to make chelas'
actions Karma-less, by them doing all things
in the name of the Mahanta, then why are there
still both Positive and Negative results from
I know that Klemp always has an excuse for chelas'
negative results. It is seen as a "test," or maybe
the chela's thoughts and actions were not "pure."
However, what is the excuse when there are "positive"
results (good Karma) when these actions (done in
the name of the Mahanta) are supposed to be Karma-
With Klemp, and all religious leaders, the fault always
lies with the lowly ignorant followers. After all, they
don't have the highest view from the top of the mountain
as the "Master" does. HK's a 14th plus Initiate right?
How can even a 9th initiate have a clue as to what HK
knows and/or is capable of doing? Thus, how can
lowly chelas know the details and the "Why," behind
the scenes, in the upper God-Worlds of EK! However,
why are EK Members kept in the dark of the lower plane
financial aspects (salaries, etc.) of the physical org?
According to EK Dogma only SUGMAD and Klemp (the
Mahanta) know what's taking place on all Planes and
SUGMAD won't tell! And, if SUGMAD, or SPIRIT, did
speak to or guide EK Chelas to do something they would
be reprimanded by Klemp! EK Chelas must, always, go
though Klemp (the Mahanta) to have an "approved" and
"valid" spiritual experience. Only in their Dream Journals
can EK Chelas share similar "inner" experiences to what
Graham Forsyth experienced. Chelas can never share these
SUGMAD spiritual experiences, or of Being the ECK, or
of Being an ECK Master, or allowing a Silent One to hand
you the Rod of ECK Power in their Monthly Initiate Reports!
Most EKists know this, and are cautious not to offend Klemp
or raise any "red flags" with those H.I.s reading the H.I.R.O./
I.R.O. letters. One doesn't want to be Black Listed and
have their initiations held up for Three years or more!
Klemp has to approve and verify (in writing or in a seminar
talk) any and all "spiritual" experiences that chelas have!
Top Dogs, like Klemp, say one thing, like Soul equals Soul,
but practice the opposite. Catch-22 is the real "Key" to
Klemp's version of the new and improved ECKankar!
Hello Sharon and All,
Right! Klemp can't protect himself from EMRs, etc.,
but chelas can call on him to prevent Karma! Does
he block "good" karma too? He's very general about
things and doesn't distinguish between "good" and
"bad" Karma. Besides, how does HK (the Mahanta)
have that much Power and Not be able to heal thyself?
It's nonsense isn't it! HK "pushes chelas away" from
using computers with his EMR scare tactic and then
he "pulls" chelas back to their computers, via the
Internet, to use them as Vahana tools! ECKankar
has an Online Site, Broadcasts, etc.!
Once again, this reminds me of that psychic mind
control technique Paul mentioned in "Letters to Gail
3." That was a push/pull technique used to confuse
people. Plus, Paul said that it could drive them insane
(that would be a short drive for Klemp and many of
All this white/black magic/karma stuff is *such* nonsense, isn't it?
And the only purpose of doing everything "in the name of the Master"
is to keep people totally dependent, mindless cultpuppies who can't
even imagine life without their Official Cult ID Card!!!
Plus, it's all so totally phony considering all the nasty sniveling passive-
aggressive stuff Klemp says about so many other things - offhand, I'm
thinking about something he wrote about the "weeds", for example.
I remember back when Jeffrey Dahmer was first arrested, would you
believe I actually sat there watching the news & turning it all into a
"divine unconditional love spiritual exercise", doing the usual eckie
non-judgmental thing, wondering about what karma was being worked
out there and what horrible things Dahmer's victims must've done to him
in a past life? And another thing I did was a scenario where I imagined
Klemp getting arrested for serial cannibal murders and how I'd need to
probably work a bit harder, but I was sure I'd be able to keep my faith
and "connection" to the "mahanta" no matter what!!!!
Now, I'd like to say I've never been one of those people who gets all
emotional & angry & wants to lynch Dahmer, etc., since I was a kid I've
been doing the "walk in the other man's moccasins" thing just because
human behavior is fascinating. I don't go around thinking bad things
should happen to bad people & vice versa to any great degree, but excuse
me, it seems like Klemp carries the unemotional & nonjudgmental thing
to a ridiculous extreme, you know what I mean? Wish I could find the
right words to express exactly what I mean here but I can look back and
see just how much damage the cult does to normal emotions. Like, years
back I remember passing car accidents & deliberately doing a detached
undirected "hu". Well, thinking about that, that's just plain *wrong*!!
If someone's heart doesn't react to passing a car accident and really hope
that no one was seriously hurt, there's something very wrong. Even sociopathic.
And it's the same with not having feelings of revulsion about things like
child molesting or hurting innocent animals.
Well, I'm just sort of rambling and I'm actually posting because right now
I'm trying to avoid doing some things I really *should* be doing but don't
feel like it, but I'm not quite yet ready to go into couch-potato mode. <gg>
Winding down after a busy day.
But this is what Klemp & ekult do to people, get you all wrapped up with
silly little nit-picky things which get in the way of just "Being", and that
true "inner" connection with your "true inner" where you can just "flow",
you know what I mean? Good grief, it's worse than orthodox Judaism where
they'll spend hours (or decades - or centuries!) interpreting the law, resulting
in things like not being allowed to tear toilet paper off the roll on holy
days, but it's okay to use individual sheets. Or to hire a Gentile to do the
"forbidden" stuff - like plugging in your contact lens machine back in the
days before they had that no-rub solution. Oh, just remembered something
else, they're not allowed to turn on a light switch, either!! Many years ago
I worked at a resort that was transformed into "holy ground" for Passover,
and they paid big bucks for babysitters.
While I think of recent posts here, EMRs etc., I remember years back
when Klemp wrote about the internet and how he'd barely escaped in
time. But on the other hand, I'd read how the internet was great for
"vahana" work. So, I was a bit confused - if the internet was so bad and
"negative" that Klemp Himself found it dangerous, why was he sending
"vahanas" there, and how the heck could he "protect" us when he couldn't
Does the "mahanta" have a "mahanta"? Doesn't being in direct contact
with Suggie help?
Anyway, at one point at alt.religion.eckankar years back, someone
mentioned that at one time, Klemp actually posted publicly here on
the internet! Don't know where or what, but can you imagine Klemp
being in a position where people might ask "live" questions? Or
even worse, have to face former members who'd left? What a hoot!!
EMRs or whatever *can* sort of drain you at times, but you can sort of
just "adjust" your own vibes or whatever to deal with it. I noticed years
back, before home PCs, it seemed like computers magnified the "vibes"
Okay, just a few thoughts, I'm "wound down" now. Ekult really messes
up your head, and I'm just *so* eternally grateful to be out, although it's
been so long that I don't even think about it that much anymore. For
quite awhile after I got out, hardly a day went by when I wasn't overwhelmed
with how beautiful & clear life was again, and how thankful I was that
I'd woken up and gotten out. Now I don't think about it, I just "enjoy"!
Or not enjoy, if it's one of those days. <gg>
Hope everyone had a great weekend! Think Spring!!
The Mystic World March 2009 - Ask the Master Q&A
Posted by: "prometheus"
Q: "In a Q&A, you explained that when
someone is trying to direct the ECK, it
is a form of WHITE MAGIC.
In another Q&A, you define it as BLACK
 What is the difference between the two?
 How does this relate to giving love with
strings attached, as you mentioned in your
2008 Springtime Seminar talk?
 Is it OK, as a spiritual exercise, to visualize
the best-case scenario of a situation?
 At what point can a self-created spiritual
exercise turn to WHITE or BLACK MAGIC?
Thank you so much for clarifying this."
ME: I'm just wondering how Klemp will answer
all of these questions, or will he? And, the first
question has two parts! Isn't it ashamed that
Klemp can't be clearer with his message and
instructions to his chelas! Plus, where's that
"inner" guidance and those "inner" answers?
Nowhere! It's a scam!
"Carefully consider the Context of such Answers.
First of all, an ECK initiate should move into a
position of karmaless action. That means doing
everything in the name of the Master.
It is the easy way.
WHITE MAGIC is with the intent to do some good.
But note that it is Not done in the Master's name
When one's attitude drifts into thoughts of having
Power and Control over others, the Deed then slips
into BLACK MAGIC.
Still, there is No Sharp Line of demarcation between
BLACK and WHITE KARMA.
There is also plenty of GRAY area. That is because
everything is in constant flux, changing in some
measure, either a little or a lot.
BLACK MAGIC, at its darkest, seeks to Harm or
Control others right at the Onset.
Giving a gift or doing a 'kindness' is in the GRAYISH
WHITE area of WHITE MAGIC.
Please understand that there are Degrees of Good
Deeds and WHITE KARMA, and so are there Degrees
of Retribution for practicing them.
So do all you giving in the Master's name.
YES, it is OK to expect the best outcome for
a situation. BUT also remember to respond
Positively to Whatever the result."
ME: Well! I'm glad Klemp cleared that up
so that there were no "gray" areas left!