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Why Doesn't EK Dogma Require Chastity for the LEM?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Jonathan and All, Usually, in Hinduism, householder couples practice chastity when the women are no longer of child bearing age. I did look up continence
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 16 8:05 PM
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      Hello Jonathan and All,
      Usually, in Hinduism, householder couples practice
      chastity when the women are no longer of child
      bearing age. I did look up continence and the First
      definition is: 1) "self-restraint or abstinence, esp.
      in regard to sexual activity; temperance; moderation."

      The second definition of the word has to do with
      "the voluntary control of urinary and fecal discharge."

      Anyway, look at Twitch, Gross, and Klemp and their
      wives. Although Joan is past child bearing age I doubt
      that HK could ever practice chastity or continence
      which means that he is still attached to the sex drive...
      and to the Low Plane Worlds of KAL. It's amazing that
      the (14th Plane) LEM/Mahanta, Klemp, is unable to practice,
      or to discuss chastity when it is written in Catholic
      Dogma that the (4th Plane) Pope is required to practice
      it!

      Why isn't it a written requirement (in the ECK Holy Books)
      that the LEM/Mahanta practice Chastity and Continence like
      the Lower Plane POPE has to?

      Prometheus


      jonathan wrote:

      Prometheus,

      You wrote:

      "You see, CHASTITY and CONTINENCE just won't work
      in the Western world!"

      I agree. We all know the formula:

      teenagers + alcohol = lack of chastity

      Same for 20 somethings, 30 somethings and on up. By the time
      you get really old it's not as common. Which makes me think that
      these chastity rules were originally invented by old people.

      Also, I think lack of chastity is much more common outside the
      Western world that most people in the West believe. It's just that
      they cover it up really well (or deny it), but Westerners don't cover
      it up nearly as much. Some people try to cover it up, but still,
      everybody with a brain knows that it is there.

      By the way, I never saw the word "continence" used in the manner
      that the Radha Soami Satsang Beas used it. I've heard the word
      "incontinence" before which means lack of urinary control. I am
      assuming that "continence" means the opposite, but the Beas applied
      the word to a person's sexual drive.

      Jonathan

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Jonathan and All,
      > Twitchell Westernized ECKankar by eliminating
      > "chastity" from the Virtues and by switching
      > around, another, to take it's place!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > MESSAGE #3020:
      > The original opposites (Virtues) for the Passion of LUST
      > were Chastity and Continence.
      >
      > Is Klemp trying to bring Chastity back with his, "Restrooms
      > are Unisex" statement? Is he instructing ECKists to act like
      > or to become eunuchs?
      >
      > And, is Klemp instructing his Chelas that to achieve the
      > Virtue of Continence one just needs to view all restrooms
      > as Unisex and, therefore, this will decrease one's anxiety,
      > and give one the false impression that their Continence was
      > maintained after all!
      >
      > Or, is this just another distraction to hide another physical
      > ailment of HK's? Maybe it's both a two prong approach
      > and to prepare ECKists for Joan's promotion like Gail did
      > for Darwin. But, What about Rebazar... the True 500 year
      > old, Torchbearer and LEM/Mahanta?
      >
      > BTW- Is "Dialogues With the Master" still available for sale?
      > This is a conversation that Twitch is having with 500 year
      > old EK Master Rebazar Tarzs (The Torchbearer of ECKankar)!
      >
      > **********************************************************
      > I was looking at my copy of this "The Path of the Masters"
      > by Julian P. Johnson and was reminded of the source of much
      > of Paul's material when he created Eckankar. Yes, Eckankar
      > is pretty much just a Western version of Radha Soami Satsang
      > Beas.
      >
      > Anyway, here's something I found where Paul Westernized
      > the FIVE PASSIONS OF THE MIND and the FIVE VIRTUES. The
      > Radasoami [R] version, from page 362 of "Path", will be
      > given then the ECKankar [EK], Klemp's version, from page
      > 73 of Klemp's ECKankar Lexicon.
      >
      > [R]=Radhasoami [EK]=ECKankar
      >
      > PASSION------------------------VIRTUE
      >
      >
      > [R] KAM: LUST------------SHIL: CHASTITY; CONTINENCE
      >
      > [EK] KAMA: LUST-----------*VIVEKA: DISCRIMINATION
      >
      >
      > [R] KRODH: ANGER---------KSHAMA: FORGIVENESS; TOLERANCE
      >
      > [EK] KRODHA: ANGER-------KSHAMA: FORGIVENESS; TOLERANCE
      >
      >
      > [R] LOBH: GREED-----------SANTOSHA: CONTENTMENT
      >
      > [EK] LOBHA: GREED---------SANTOSHA: CONTENTMENT
      >
      >
      > [R] MOH: ATTACHMENT-----*VIVEKA: DISCRIMINATION
      > ----------------------------------VAIRAG: DETACHMENT
      >
      > [EK] MOHA: ATTACHMENT-----VAIRAG: DETACHMENT
      >
      >
      > [R] AHANKAR: EGO; PRIDE-----DINTA: HUMILITY
      >
      > [EK] AHANKARA: VANITY------DINTA: HUMILITY
      >
      > So, as you can see Twitch took "artistic license" and eliminated
      > one virtue (Chastity) and moved an extra one in to take its place.
      > Go to the first (of TWO) Radasoami [R] definitions of the "VIRTUE"
      > that counteracts the passion of ATTACHMENT. This Virtue is
      > VIVEKA (DISCRIMINATION), now move it up to replace the
      > "VIRTUE" Chastity and we get the [EK] version of LUST and
      > DISCRIMINATION.
      >
      > [This is easily done because Radhasoami gives TWO Virtues
      > to counteract the ONE Passion of Attachment: Detachment
      > & Discrimination!]
      >
      > You see, CHASTITY and CONTINENCE just won't work in the
      > Western world! Paul was somewhat clever with his lying, but
      > then again, he had plenty of practice going back to 1935 (at
      > 27 years old) with "exaggerating" and "twisting of facts" (as
      > Klemp pointed out on ECKankar.org) by trying to get into Who's
      > Who in Kentucky!
      >
      > And, is it any wonder why it was always difficult to match up
      > all of the PASSIONS to their opposite VIRTUES. Now we ALL
      > know why! The puzzle is solved!
      >
      > Prometheus
      > p.s. Note how Twit added the letter "a" to most of these
      > words (ex: moh vs moha) to disguise his source.
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