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Anyone know anything about the private Eckankar message boards?

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  • jonathanjohns96
    All, Anyone know anything about the private (members-only) Eckankar message boards? Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished I had looked at
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 11, 2009
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      All,

      Anyone know anything about the private (members-only) Eckankar
      message boards?

      Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished I had looked
      at some of the private Eckankar message boards. Not for any
      particular reason other than I was curious about what was going on
      there. But I left Eckankar anyway, without doing that, because I
      wasn't going to let that hold me up.

      I have some questions about the private (members-only) Eckankar
      message boards.
      1. Do they talk about the same ekstuff as everywhere else in
      Eckankar?
      2. Do they get into any controversial topics?
      3. Ever see any troublemakers there that snuck in somehow and are
      posting spam or are flaming the message board?
      4. Do members of Eckankar have to give their full name when they sign
      up? Do they have to give their full Eckankar ID number when they sign
      up? In other words, is the message board potentially keeping track of
      what Eckists are saying there?

      I stayed in Eckankar long enough to get my fifth initiation. I was
      always curious what went on in the Higher Initiate meetings. After
      attending several of them I discovered that the higher initiate
      meetings weren't intrinsically different that the "regular" meetings
      I had been attending for my previous 29 years in Eckankar.

      Jonathan
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Jonathan and All! Regarding the eckankar message boards set up on Yahoo Groups, a friend keeps me posted on some of the goings on, especially with HuChat.
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 12, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi, Jonathan and All!

        Regarding the eckankar message boards set up on Yahoo
        Groups, a friend keeps me posted on some of the goings
        on, especially with HuChat. I don't really read the posts
        much because it is basically same old nonsense! The
        eckists seem to be delusional explaining away every event
        in their lives as being the eck. They rely on inner experiences
        for truth rather than facing the reality of the now that is
        staring them in the face! They love HK of course and pick
        up on his every word . . . but of course they have to figure
        it out first since HK is so vague and talks in circles.
        He doesn't make sense so how can anyone make sense of
        what he says or writes??? LOL!

        Anyway, taking a quick browse this morning, here is what is
        being discussed on HuChat:

        1. There is always the Quote of the Day, posted by one member
        everyday. When she is unable to post, someone else will post
        something for her. She uses one of HK's books and selects
        one of his quotes printed on the sidebar of a page. She never
        explains its meaning in context of how it is used in the book . . .
        might make for an interesting discussion if that was done, but
        I suppose they are afraid of misinterpreting and possibly upsetting
        the ESC??? There's a lot of fear on HuChat . . .

        2. They are talking about the economy, asking sumad for help and
        seeing it as the kali yuga. Some are losing their jobs -- but someone
        posted that "eck takes care of money." So I suppose no reason for
        real worry here?

        3. Another member posted that "eckankar is truly the way to sanity
        for me. . . . "

        4. Another person said that he gives unemotional love . . . I didn't
        realize that love could be unemotional? I don't get this at all . . .
        how can you love without emotion? I suppose this is the "love"
        that HK exhibits . . . easy to sign off with "love" but not really
        mean it. That would be unemotional love to me. Just saying it but
        not really meaning it! That's not nice.

        Jonathan, in regards to your questions:

        They keep the discussions rather low key and light for the most
        part. If someone asks or comments on anything controversial
        regarding eckankar, the discussion is shut down and the person
        asking becomes suspect of motive. Posts will be deleted or not
        posted. And members will be reminded of the rules for posting.
        Some members have been booted and banned from the group.

        I don't think there are real trouble makers there, but they are
        very cautious with membership. They don't want people reading
        their posts unless they are really true blue eckists. I don't blame
        them in a way because they are scrutinized but yet why should
        they worry about what they post being read by outsiders? Keeping
        it closed in my opinion suggests that the org is not on the up and
        up and very suspect. It waves a red flag.

        I'm not sure about having to give an eck id but I don't think so.
        I believe they want full names so they can possibly check a "suspect"
        member for eck membership status/validation. They will badger a
        person until he/she gives their real name.

        They are paranoid about new members--suspecting them as being
        trolls. Some old time members are really quite full of themselves.
        They are very confident that they "get" what eck is all about and
        what HK means, etc. They can come off as arrogant know it alls, and
        of course those who feel new or less spiritually evolved will hang
        onto their posted words. So there is a sort of hierarchy going on.
        You can even sense a looking down on some posters comments.
        What I love the most though is noting how they will sign off in
        their posts. If they are upset or "pissed off" by what a poster has
        written, they will sign off "in eck" rather than with "eck love". They
        will omit the "love"!! I guess that is a form of punishment? But it
        also shows a lack of love, being judgmental and intolerant . . .

        I hope this helps answer your questions. You were in eckankar 29
        years. At what year did you get your 5th? I'm enjoying your posts.
        I've been reading but not posting so much lately!

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
        <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
        >
        > All,
        >
        > Anyone know anything about the private (members-only) Eckankar
        > message boards?
        >
        > Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished I had looked
        > at some of the private Eckankar message boards. Not for any
        > particular reason other than I was curious about what was going on
        > there. But I left Eckankar anyway, without doing that, because I
        > wasn't going to let that hold me up.
        >
        > I have some questions about the private (members-only) Eckankar
        > message boards.
        > 1. Do they talk about the same ekstuff as everywhere else in
        > Eckankar?
        > 2. Do they get into any controversial topics?
        > 3. Ever see any troublemakers there that snuck in somehow and are
        > posting spam or are flaming the message board?
        > 4. Do members of Eckankar have to give their full name when they sign
        > up? Do they have to give their full Eckankar ID number when they sign
        > up? In other words, is the message board potentially keeping track of
        > what Eckists are saying there?
        >
        > I stayed in Eckankar long enough to get my fifth initiation. I was
        > always curious what went on in the Higher Initiate meetings. After
        > attending several of them I discovered that the higher initiate
        > meetings weren't intrinsically different that the "regular" meetings
        > I had been attending for my previous 29 years in Eckankar.
        >
        > Jonathan
        >
      • jonathanjohns96
        Mish, Thanks a lot for the very thorough answer to my question. You painted a very good picture for me. For the most part you told me what I expected to hear,
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 12, 2009
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          Mish,

          Thanks a lot for the very thorough answer to my question. You painted
          a very good picture for me. For the most part you told me what I
          expected to hear, but I learned a very good rule a long time
          ago "Never assume" so I am appreciative of your lengthy response.

          I had to look up HuChat becuase I didn't even know what that is. It
          seems to be a Yahoo message board. In your discussion of HuChat,
          believe it or not I was somewhat surprised when you said "They love
          HK of course and pick up on his every word." I didn't realize they
          would be that 100% in favor of HK. I guess I shouldn't have been
          surprised.

          I know there are a few members of Eckankar who can think for
          themselves, but like I did, they probabaly keep quiet about it. You
          wouldn't see them on HuChat because their attitude would be "Why
          bother expressing a real opinion. It's just going to stir up a
          hornet's nest against me." Plus, if they used their real name they
          would be on a list at "Headquarters" very quickly. It all adds up to
          your comment that "There's a lot of fear on HuChat." So I can see why
          the conversation stays low key.

          The person who was talking about "unemotional love" was probably
          referring to "unconditional love." The concept of "unconditional
          love" is one of the worthwhile things that I learned in Eckankar. It
          basically means that you accept other people as they are.

          In response to your question, I joined in 1979, I received my fifth
          initiation in early 2008, and I left at the very end of 2008. Just
          long enough to attend a few higher initiate meetings.

          Jonathan


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Jonathan and All!
          >
          > Regarding the eckankar message boards set up on Yahoo
          > Groups, a friend keeps me posted on some of the goings
          > on, especially with HuChat. I don't really read the posts
          > much because it is basically same old nonsense! The
          > eckists seem to be delusional explaining away every event
          > in their lives as being the eck. They rely on inner experiences
          > for truth rather than facing the reality of the now that is
          > staring them in the face! They love HK of course and pick
          > up on his every word . . . but of course they have to figure
          > it out first since HK is so vague and talks in circles.
          > He doesn't make sense so how can anyone make sense of
          > what he says or writes??? LOL!
          >
          > Anyway, taking a quick browse this morning, here is what is
          > being discussed on HuChat:
          >
          > 1. There is always the Quote of the Day, posted by one member
          > everyday. When she is unable to post, someone else will post
          > something for her. She uses one of HK's books and selects
          > one of his quotes printed on the sidebar of a page. She never
          > explains its meaning in context of how it is used in the book . . .
          > might make for an interesting discussion if that was done, but
          > I suppose they are afraid of misinterpreting and possibly upsetting
          > the ESC??? There's a lot of fear on HuChat . . .
          >
          > 2. They are talking about the economy, asking sumad for help and
          > seeing it as the kali yuga. Some are losing their jobs -- but
          someone
          > posted that "eck takes care of money." So I suppose no reason for
          > real worry here?
          >
          > 3. Another member posted that "eckankar is truly the way to sanity
          > for me. . . . "
          >
          > 4. Another person said that he gives unemotional love . . . I
          didn't
          > realize that love could be unemotional? I don't get this at
          all . . .
          > how can you love without emotion? I suppose this is the "love"
          > that HK exhibits . . . easy to sign off with "love" but not really
          > mean it. That would be unemotional love to me. Just saying it but
          > not really meaning it! That's not nice.
          >
          > Jonathan, in regards to your questions:
          >
          > They keep the discussions rather low key and light for the most
          > part. If someone asks or comments on anything controversial
          > regarding eckankar, the discussion is shut down and the person
          > asking becomes suspect of motive. Posts will be deleted or not
          > posted. And members will be reminded of the rules for posting.
          > Some members have been booted and banned from the group.
          >
          > I don't think there are real trouble makers there, but they are
          > very cautious with membership. They don't want people reading
          > their posts unless they are really true blue eckists. I don't blame
          > them in a way because they are scrutinized but yet why should
          > they worry about what they post being read by outsiders? Keeping
          > it closed in my opinion suggests that the org is not on the up and
          > up and very suspect. It waves a red flag.
          >
          > I'm not sure about having to give an eck id but I don't think so.
          > I believe they want full names so they can possibly check
          a "suspect"
          > member for eck membership status/validation. They will badger a
          > person until he/she gives their real name.
          >
          > They are paranoid about new members--suspecting them as being
          > trolls. Some old time members are really quite full of themselves.
          > They are very confident that they "get" what eck is all about and
          > what HK means, etc. They can come off as arrogant know it alls, and
          > of course those who feel new or less spiritually evolved will hang
          > onto their posted words. So there is a sort of hierarchy going on.
          > You can even sense a looking down on some posters comments.
          > What I love the most though is noting how they will sign off in
          > their posts. If they are upset or "pissed off" by what a poster has
          > written, they will sign off "in eck" rather than with "eck love".
          They
          > will omit the "love"!! I guess that is a form of punishment? But it
          > also shows a lack of love, being judgmental and intolerant . . .
          >
          > I hope this helps answer your questions. You were in eckankar 29
          > years. At what year did you get your 5th? I'm enjoying your posts.
          > I've been reading but not posting so much lately!
          >
          > Mish
          >
          >
          > --- In
          EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
          > <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
          > >
          > > All,
          > >
          > > Anyone know anything about the private (members-only) Eckankar
          > > message boards?
          > >
          > > Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished I had
          looked
          > > at some of the private Eckankar message boards. Not for any
          > > particular reason other than I was curious about what was going
          on
          > > there. But I left Eckankar anyway, without doing that, because I
          > > wasn't going to let that hold me up.
          > >
          > > I have some questions about the private (members-only) Eckankar
          > > message boards.
          > > 1. Do they talk about the same ekstuff as everywhere else in
          > > Eckankar?
          > > 2. Do they get into any controversial topics?
          > > 3. Ever see any troublemakers there that snuck in somehow and are
          > > posting spam or are flaming the message board?
          > > 4. Do members of Eckankar have to give their full name when they
          sign
          > > up? Do they have to give their full Eckankar ID number when they
          sign
          > > up? In other words, is the message board potentially keeping
          track of
          > > what Eckists are saying there?
          > >
          > > I stayed in Eckankar long enough to get my fifth initiation. I
          was
          > > always curious what went on in the Higher Initiate meetings.
          After
          > > attending several of them I discovered that the higher initiate
          > > meetings weren't intrinsically different that the "regular"
          meetings
          > > I had been attending for my previous 29 years in Eckankar.
          > >
          > > Jonathan
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Mish and All, I think that when Eckists withhold emotions and feelings that they are trying to act detached. ECKists fear the Astral emotions and yet
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 12, 2009
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            Hello Mish and All,
            I think that when Eckists withhold emotions and feelings
            that they are trying to "act" detached. ECKists fear the
            Astral "emotions" and yet they use the Tirsa Til (Third Eye,
            and 6th Astral Chakra) when they chant HU in order to meet
            the "Master" in his "Astral" (Nuri Sarup) Light Body before
            continuing on, supposedly, with him to higher planes.

            Actually, when ECKists Do Not express emotions, feelings,
            and empathy they are imprinting, upon themselves, patterns
            of sociopathic behaviour. This negative attitude, also,
            encourages reclusiveness, passiveness, inaction, anti-social
            behaviour and the withholding of Love!

            http://www.9types.com/wwwboard/messages/18332.html

            Of course, some Eckists have an easier time of following
            this negative course of action than others by mimicking
            Klemp. Their rationalizations and delusional imaginings
            separate them from real people and real life experiences
            in general. This is Not a "spiritual" course of action and
            yet their comments are condoned and agreed with! It's
            true, ECKists are taught in Arahata Training Not to disagree
            with or add to what another has stated. Almost everything
            (unless it is Anti-ECK) is accepted as having acceptable truth,
            or being completely true from an ECKankar perspective.
            Just memorize and repeat what the EK brochures say. The
            same goes for those stories of about "EK" experiences, unless,
            it places a chela on an equal level or higher than Klemp...
            even for a second! Just ask Graham!

            Thus, only "EK stories" that are "officially approved" of
            (by Klemp or the ESC) should be retold and put into print,
            otherwise, they cannot be seen as truly "Valid" ECK experiences.
            The KAL could have been playing tricks on these ECKists.
            After all, Graham even HUed to protect himself and did
            this in order to have his "ECK" experience with a Silent
            One.

            Therefore, EK chelas have to limit their "ECK" experiences
            to the more mundane everyday and common place occurrences
            that everyone else experiences! BUT, EK initiates need to dedicate
            these "experiences" to the Mahanta's intervention. And, they
            imagine that these "positive" results were via a co-dependent
            relationship with the Klemp. Negative results or experiences,
            however, are seen as being from the KAL, as Karmic, or being
            a "spiritual" test. Catch-22, along with, "Co-workership with
            the Mahanta," has become another addition to Klemp's tool
            box of stall tactics to keep EK Members hanging on for life!
            There is No "Spiritual Freedom" or "Self-Mastery" in this lifetime
            or any other for ECKankarists! It's a pipe dream! It's time to
            WAKE UP ECKIES!

            Prometheus


            mishmisha wrote:

            Hi, Jonathan and All!

            Regarding the eckankar message boards set up on Yahoo
            Groups, a friend keeps me posted on some of the goings
            on, especially with HuChat. I don't really read the posts
            much because it is basically same old nonsense! The
            eckists seem to be delusional explaining away every event
            in their lives as being the eck. They rely on inner experiences
            for truth rather than facing the reality of the now that is
            staring them in the face! They love HK of course and pick
            up on his every word . . . but of course they have to figure
            it out first since HK is so vague and talks in circles.
            He doesn't make sense so how can anyone make sense of
            what he says or writes??? LOL!

            Anyway, taking a quick browse this morning, here is what is
            being discussed on HuChat:

            1. There is always the Quote of the Day, posted by one member
            everyday. When she is unable to post, someone else will post
            something for her. She uses one of HK's books and selects
            one of his quotes printed on the sidebar of a page. She never
            explains its meaning in context of how it is used in the book . . .
            might make for an interesting discussion if that was done, but
            I suppose they are afraid of misinterpreting and possibly upsetting
            the ESC??? There's a lot of fear on HuChat . . .

            2. They are talking about the economy, asking sumad for help and
            seeing it as the kali yuga. Some are losing their jobs -- but someone
            posted that "eck takes care of money." So I suppose no reason for
            real worry here?

            3. Another member posted that "eckankar is truly the way to sanity
            for me. . . . "

            4. Another person said that he gives unemotional love . . . I didn't
            realize that love could be unemotional? I don't get this at all . . .
            how can you love without emotion? I suppose this is the "love"
            that HK exhibits . . . easy to sign off with "love" but not really
            mean it. That would be unemotional love to me. Just saying it but
            not really meaning it! That's not nice.

            Jonathan, in regards to your questions:

            They keep the discussions rather low key and light for the most
            part. If someone asks or comments on anything controversial
            regarding eckankar, the discussion is shut down and the person
            asking becomes suspect of motive. Posts will be deleted or not
            posted. And members will be reminded of the rules for posting.
            Some members have been booted and banned from the group.

            I don't think there are real trouble makers there, but they are
            very cautious with membership. They don't want people reading
            their posts unless they are really true blue eckists. I don't blame
            them in a way because they are scrutinized but yet why should
            they worry about what they post being read by outsiders? Keeping
            it closed in my opinion suggests that the org is not on the up and
            up and very suspect. It waves a red flag.

            I'm not sure about having to give an eck id but I don't think so.
            I believe they want full names so they can possibly check a "suspect"
            member for eck membership status/validation. They will badger a
            person until he/she gives their real name.

            They are paranoid about new members--suspecting them as being
            trolls. Some old time members are really quite full of themselves.
            They are very confident that they "get" what eck is all about and
            what HK means, etc. They can come off as arrogant know it alls, and
            of course those who feel new or less spiritually evolved will hang
            onto their posted words. So there is a sort of hierarchy going on.
            You can even sense a looking down on some posters comments.
            What I love the most though is noting how they will sign off in
            their posts. If they are upset or "pissed off" by what a poster has
            written, they will sign off "in eck" rather than with "eck love". They
            will omit the "love"!! I guess that is a form of punishment? But it
            also shows a lack of love, being judgmental and intolerant . . .

            I hope this helps answer your questions. You were in eckankar 29
            years. At what year did you get your 5th? I'm enjoying your posts.
            I've been reading but not posting so much lately!

            Mish


            jonathanjohns wrote:
            >
            > All,
            >
            > Anyone know anything about the private (members-only) Eckankar
            > message boards?
            >
            > Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished I had looked
            > at some of the private Eckankar message boards. Not for any
            > particular reason other than I was curious about what was going on
            > there. But I left Eckankar anyway, without doing that, because I
            > wasn't going to let that hold me up.
            >
            > I have some questions about the private (members-only) Eckankar
            > message boards.

            > 1. Do they talk about the same ekstuff as everywhere else in
            > Eckankar?

            > 2. Do they get into any controversial topics?

            > 3. Ever see any troublemakers there that snuck in somehow and are
            > posting spam or are flaming the message board?

            > 4. Do members of Eckankar have to give their full name when they sign
            > up? Do they have to give their full Eckankar ID number when they sign
            > up? In other words, is the message board potentially keeping track of
            > what Eckists are saying there?
            >
            > I stayed in Eckankar long enough to get my fifth initiation. I was
            > always curious what went on in the Higher Initiate meetings. After
            > attending several of them I discovered that the higher initiate
            > meetings weren't intrinsically different that the "regular" meetings
            > I had been attending for my previous 29 years in Eckankar.
            >
            > Jonathan
            >
          • etznab@aol.com
            Jonathan, Things seem to have slowed down if it took 29 years to become a 5th. Was your membership current the whole time? No breaks? I wonder why it was
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 12, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Jonathan,

              Things seem to have "slowed down" if it took
              29 years to become a 5th.

              Was your membership current the whole time?
              No breaks?

              I wonder why it was people got initiations much
              quicker years ago (like, most of the clergy today).

              Nowadays it looks like there are no new discourses
              (haven't been for some time), no new Shariyat's and
              it takes many more years between initiations.

              Someplace recently I read that the 1971 Seminar
              was supposed to be "Consciousness Five" or some-
              thing like that.

              About things "slowing down" my impression, from
              what Harold gave out years ago, was that this was
              somehow on account of the Eckists wanting to go
              "slow". I'll have to find the quote to be sure.

              Personally, I tend to think things should be going
              faster, not slower, if world karma is speeding up &
              all that. Like the 2012 stuff, etc..

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: jonathanjohns96 <jonathanjohns96@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 1:01 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Anyone know anything about
              the private Eckankar message boards?



              Mish,



              Thanks a lot for the very thorough answer to my question. You painted

              a very good picture for me. For the most part you told me what I

              expected to hear, but I learned a very good rule a long time

              ago "Never assume" so I a
              m appreciative of your lengthy response.



              I had to look up HuChat becuase I didn't even know what that is. It

              seems to be a Yahoo message board. In your discussion of HuChat,

              believe it or not I was somewhat surprised when you said "They love

              HK of course and pick up on his every word." I didn't realize they

              would be that 100% in favor of HK. I guess I shouldn't have been

              surprised.



              I know there are a few members of Eckankar who can think for

              themselves, but like I did, they probabaly keep quiet about it. You

              wouldn't see them on HuChat because their attitude would be "Why

              bother expressing a real opinion. It's just going to stir up a

              hornet's nest against me." Plus, if they used their real name they

              would be on a list at "Headquarters" very quickly. It all adds up to

              your comment that "There's a lot of fear on HuChat." So I can see why

              the conversation stays low key.



              The person who was talking about "unemotional love" was probably

              referring to "unconditional love." The concept of "unconditional

              love" is one of the worthwhile things that I learned in Eckankar. It

              basically means that you accept other people as they are.



              In response to your question, I joined in 1979, I received my fifth

              initiation in early 2008, and I left at the very end of 2008. Just

              long enough to attend a few higher initiate meet
              ings.



              Jonathan



              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"

              <mishmisha9@...> wrote:

              >

              > Hi, Jonathan and All!

              >

              > Regarding the eckankar message boards set up on Yahoo

              > Groups, a friend keeps me posted on some of the goings

              > on, especially with HuChat. I don't really read the posts

              > much because it is basically same old nonsense! The

              > eckists seem to be delusional explaining away every event

              > in their lives as being the eck. They rely on inner experiences

              > for truth rather than facing the reality of the now that is

              > staring them in the face! They love HK of course and pick

              > up on his every word . . . but of course they have to figure

              > it out first since HK is so vague and talks in circles.

              > He doesn't make sense so how can anyone make sense of

              > what he says or writes??? LOL!

              >

              > Anyway, taking a quick browse this morning, here is what is

              > being discussed on HuChat:

              >

              > 1. There is always the Quote of the Day, posted by one member

              > everyday. When she is unable to post, someone else will post

              > something for her. She uses one of HK's books and selects

              > one of his quotes printed on the sidebar of a page. She never

              > explains its meaning in context of how it is used in the boo
              k . . .

              > might make for an interesting discussion if that was done, but

              > I suppose they are afraid of misinterpreting and possibly upsetting

              > the ESC??? There's a lot of fear on HuChat . . .

              >

              > 2. They are talking about the economy, asking sumad for help and

              > seeing it as the kali yuga. Some are losing their jobs -- but

              someone

              > posted that "eck takes care of money." So I suppose no reason for

              > real worry here?

              >

              > 3. Another member posted that "eckankar is truly the way to sanity

              > for me. . . . "

              >

              > 4. Another person said that he gives unemotional love . . . I

              didn't

              > realize that love could be unemotional? I don't get this at

              all . . .

              > how can you love without emotion? I suppose this is the "love"

              > that HK exhibits . . . easy to sign off with "love" but not really

              > mean it. That would be unemotional love to me. Just saying it but

              > not really meaning it! That's not nice.

              >

              > Jonathan, in regards to your questions:

              >

              > They keep the discussions rather low key and light for the most

              > part. If someone asks or comments on anything controversial

              > regarding eckankar, the discussion is shut down and the person

              > asking becomes suspect of motive. Posts will be deleted or not

              > posted.20And members will be reminded of the rules for posting.

              > Some members have been booted and banned from the group.

              >

              > I don't think there are real trouble makers there, but they are

              > very cautious with membership. They don't want people reading

              > their posts unless they are really true blue eckists. I don't blame

              > them in a way because they are scrutinized but yet why should

              > they worry about what they post being read by outsiders? Keeping

              > it closed in my opinion suggests that the org is not on the up and

              > up and very suspect. It waves a red flag.

              >

              > I'm not sure about having to give an eck id but I don't think so.

              > I believe they want full names so they can possibly check

              a "suspect"

              > member for eck membership status/validation. They will badger a

              > person until he/she gives their real name.

              >

              > They are paranoid about new members--suspecting them as being

              > trolls. Some old time members are really quite full of themselves.

              > They are very confident that they "get" what eck is all about and

              > what HK means, etc. They can come off as arrogant know it alls, and

              > of course those who feel new or less spiritually evolved will hang

              > onto their posted words. So there is a sort of hierarchy going on.

              > You can even sense a looking down on some posters
              comments.

              > What I love the most though is noting how they will sign off in

              > their posts. If they are upset or "pissed off" by what a poster has

              > written, they will sign off "in eck" rather than with "eck love".

              They

              > will omit the "love"!! I guess that is a form of punishment? But it

              > also shows a lack of love, being judgmental and intolerant . . .

              >

              > I hope this helps answer your questions. You were in eckankar 29

              > years. At what year did you get your 5th? I'm enjoying your posts.

              > I've been reading but not posting so much lately!

              >

              > Mish

              >

              >

              > --- In

              EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"

              > <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:

              > >

              > > All,

              > >

              > > Anyone know anything about the private (members-only)
              Eckankar

              > > message boards?

              > >

              > > Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished I
              had

              looked

              > > at some of the private Eckankar message boards. Not for any

              > > particular reason other than I was curious about what was
              going

              on

              > > there. But I left Eckankar anyway, without doing that,
              because I

              > > wasn't going to let that hold me up.

              > >

              > > I have some questions about the private (members-only)

              Eckankar

              > > message boards.

              > > 1. Do they talk about the same ekstuff as everywhere else in

              > > Eckankar?

              > > 2. Do they get into any controversial topics?

              > > 3. Ever see any troublemakers there that snuck in somehow and
              are

              > > posting spam or are flaming the message board?

              > > 4. Do members of Eckankar have to give their full name when
              they

              sign

              > > up? Do they have to give their full Eckankar ID number when
              they

              sign

              > > up? In other words, is the message board potentially keeping

              track of

              > > what Eckists are saying there?

              > >

              > > I stayed in Eckankar long enough to get my fifth initiation.
              I

              was

              > > always curious what went on in the Higher Initiate meetings.

              After

              > > attending several of them I discovered that the higher
              initiate

              > > meetings weren't intrinsically different that the "regular"

              meetings

              > > I had been attending for my previous 29 years in Eckankar.

              > >

              > > Jonathan

              > >

              >
            • jonathanjohns96
              Etznab, I took a 5 year sabbatical. I was still a member, but I didn t receive any mailings. I never gave talks or anything when I was active. Never took
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 12, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Etznab,

                I took a 5 year sabbatical. I was still a member, but I didn't
                receive any mailings. I never gave talks or anything when I was
                active. Never took Arahata training. That is probably what slowed my
                initiations down.

                Jonathan


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                >
                > Jonathan,
                >
                > Things seem to have "slowed down" if it took
                > 29 years to become a 5th.
                >
                > Was your membership current the whole time?
                > No breaks?
                >
                > I wonder why it was people got initiations much
                > quicker years ago (like, most of the clergy today).
                >
                > Nowadays it looks like there are no new discourses
                > (haven't been for some time), no new Shariyat's and
                > it takes many more years between initiations.
                >
                > Someplace recently I read that the 1971 Seminar
                > was supposed to be "Consciousness Five" or some-
                > thing like that.
                >
                > About things "slowing down" my impression, from
                > what Harold gave out years ago, was that this was
                > somehow on account of the Eckists wanting to go
                > "slow". I'll have to find the quote to be sure.
                >
                > Personally, I tend to think things should be going
                > faster, not slower, if world karma is speeding up &
                > all that. Like the 2012 stuff, etc..
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: jonathanjohns96 <jonathanjohns96@...>
                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 1:01 pm
                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Anyone know anything
                about
                > the private Eckankar message boards?
                >
                >
                >
                > Mish,
                >
                >
                >
                > Thanks a lot for the very thorough answer to my question. You
                painted
                >
                > a very good picture for me. For the most part you told me what I
                >
                > expected to hear, but I learned a very good rule a long time
                >
                > ago "Never assume" so I a
                > m appreciative of your lengthy response.
                >
                >
                >
                > I had to look up HuChat becuase I didn't even know what that is. It
                >
                > seems to be a Yahoo message board. In your discussion of HuChat,
                >
                > believe it or not I was somewhat surprised when you said "They love
                >
                > HK of course and pick up on his every word." I didn't realize they
                >
                > would be that 100% in favor of HK. I guess I shouldn't have been
                >
                > surprised.
                >
                >
                >
                > I know there are a few members of Eckankar who can think for
                >
                > themselves, but like I did, they probabaly keep quiet about it. You
                >
                > wouldn't see them on HuChat because their attitude would be "Why
                >
                > bother expressing a real opinion. It's just going to stir up a
                >
                > hornet's nest against me." Plus, if they used their real name they
                >
                > would be on a list at "Headquarters" very quickly. It all adds up to
                >
                > your comment that "There's a lot of fear on HuChat." So I can see
                why
                >
                > the conversation stays low key.
                >
                >
                >
                > The person who was talking about "unemotional love" was probably
                >
                > referring to "unconditional love." The concept of "unconditional
                >
                > love" is one of the worthwhile things that I learned in Eckankar. It
                >
                > basically means that you accept other people as they are.
                >
                >
                >
                > In response to your question, I joined in 1979, I received my fifth
                >
                > initiation in early 2008, and I left at the very end of 2008. Just
                >
                > long enough to attend a few higher initiate meet
                > ings.
                >
                >
                >
                > Jonathan
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                >
                > mishmisha9@ wrote:
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Hi, Jonathan and All!
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Regarding the eckankar message boards set up on Yahoo
                >
                > > Groups, a friend keeps me posted on some of the goings
                >
                > > on, especially with HuChat. I don't really read the posts
                >
                > > much because it is basically same old nonsense! The
                >
                > > eckists seem to be delusional explaining away every event
                >
                > > in their lives as being the eck. They rely on inner experiences
                >
                > > for truth rather than facing the reality of the now that is
                >
                > > staring them in the face! They love HK of course and pick
                >
                > > up on his every word . . . but of course they have to figure
                >
                > > it out first since HK is so vague and talks in circles.
                >
                > > He doesn't make sense so how can anyone make sense of
                >
                > > what he says or writes??? LOL!
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Anyway, taking a quick browse this morning, here is what is
                >
                > > being discussed on HuChat:
                >
                > >
                >
                > > 1. There is always the Quote of the Day, posted by one member
                >
                > > everyday. When she is unable to post, someone else will post
                >
                > > something for her. She uses one of HK's books and selects
                >
                > > one of his quotes printed on the sidebar of a page. She never
                >
                > > explains its meaning in context of how it is used in the boo
                > k . . .
                >
                > > might make for an interesting discussion if that was done, but
                >
                > > I suppose they are afraid of misinterpreting and possibly
                upsetting
                >
                > > the ESC??? There's a lot of fear on HuChat . . .
                >
                > >
                >
                > > 2. They are talking about the economy, asking sumad for help
                and
                >
                > > seeing it as the kali yuga. Some are losing their jobs -- but
                >
                > someone
                >
                > > posted that "eck takes care of money." So I suppose no reason
                for
                >
                > > real worry here?
                >
                > >
                >
                > > 3. Another member posted that "eckankar is truly the way to
                sanity
                >
                > > for me. . . . "
                >
                > >
                >
                > > 4. Another person said that he gives unemotional love . . . I
                >
                > didn't
                >
                > > realize that love could be unemotional? I don't get this at
                >
                > all . . .
                >
                > > how can you love without emotion? I suppose this is the "love"
                >
                > > that HK exhibits . . . easy to sign off with "love" but not
                really
                >
                > > mean it. That would be unemotional love to me. Just saying it
                but
                >
                > > not really meaning it! That's not nice.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Jonathan, in regards to your questions:
                >
                > >
                >
                > > They keep the discussions rather low key and light for the most
                >
                > > part. If someone asks or comments on anything controversial
                >
                > > regarding eckankar, the discussion is shut down and the person
                >
                > > asking becomes suspect of motive. Posts will be deleted or not
                >
                > > posted.20And members will be reminded of the rules for posting.
                >
                > > Some members have been booted and banned from the group.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > I don't think there are real trouble makers there, but they are
                >
                > > very cautious with membership. They don't want people reading
                >
                > > their posts unless they are really true blue eckists. I don't
                blame
                >
                > > them in a way because they are scrutinized but yet why should
                >
                > > they worry about what they post being read by outsiders?
                Keeping
                >
                > > it closed in my opinion suggests that the org is not on the up
                and
                >
                > > up and very suspect. It waves a red flag.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > I'm not sure about having to give an eck id but I don't think
                so.
                >
                > > I believe they want full names so they can possibly check
                >
                > a "suspect"
                >
                > > member for eck membership status/validation. They will badger a
                >
                > > person until he/she gives their real name.
                >
                > >
                >
                > > They are paranoid about new members--suspecting them as being
                >
                > > trolls. Some old time members are really quite full of
                themselves.
                >
                > > They are very confident that they "get" what eck is all about
                and
                >
                > > what HK means, etc. They can come off as arrogant know it
                alls, and
                >
                > > of course those who feel new or less spiritually evolved will
                hang
                >
                > > onto their posted words. So there is a sort of hierarchy going
                on.
                >
                > > You can even sense a looking down on some posters
                > comments.
                >
                > > What I love the most though is noting how they will sign off in
                >
                > > their posts. If they are upset or "pissed off" by what a
                poster has
                >
                > > written, they will sign off "in eck" rather than with "eck
                love".
                >
                > They
                >
                > > will omit the "love"!! I guess that is a form of punishment?
                But it
                >
                > > also shows a lack of love, being judgmental and
                intolerant . . .
                >
                > >
                >
                > > I hope this helps answer your questions. You were in eckankar
                29
                >
                > > years. At what year did you get your 5th? I'm enjoying your
                posts.
                >
                > > I've been reading but not posting so much lately!
                >
                > >
                >
                > > Mish
                >
                > >
                >
                > >
                >
                > > --- In
                >
                > EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
                >
                > > <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > All,
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Anyone know anything about the private (members-only)
                > Eckankar
                >
                > > > message boards?
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished
                I
                > had
                >
                > looked
                >
                > > > at some of the private Eckankar message boards. Not for
                any
                >
                > > > particular reason other than I was curious about what was
                > going
                >
                > on
                >
                > > > there. But I left Eckankar anyway, without doing that,
                > because I
                >
                > > > wasn't going to let that hold me up.
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > I have some questions about the private (members-only)
                >
                > Eckankar
                >
                > > > message boards.
                >
                > > > 1. Do they talk about the same ekstuff as everywhere else
                in
                >
                > > > Eckankar?
                >
                > > > 2. Do they get into any controversial topics?
                >
                > > > 3. Ever see any troublemakers there that snuck in somehow
                and
                > are
                >
                > > > posting spam or are flaming the message board?
                >
                > > > 4. Do members of Eckankar have to give their full name
                when
                > they
                >
                > sign
                >
                > > > up? Do they have to give their full Eckankar ID number
                when
                > they
                >
                > sign
                >
                > > > up? In other words, is the message board potentially
                keeping
                >
                > track of
                >
                > > > what Eckists are saying there?
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > I stayed in Eckankar long enough to get my fifth
                initiation.
                > I
                >
                > was
                >
                > > > always curious what went on in the Higher Initiate
                meetings.
                >
                > After
                >
                > > > attending several of them I discovered that the higher
                > initiate
                >
                > > > meetings weren't intrinsically different that
                the "regular"
                >
                > meetings
                >
                > > > I had been attending for my previous 29 years in Eckankar.
                >
                > > >
                >
                > > > Jonathan
                >
                > > >
                >
                > >
                >
              • Non ekster
                Well said about eckists and their lack of feelings and emotions. This would account for their expression of Love . They sign everything with Love, and yet
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 13, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well said about eckists and their lack of feelings and emotions. This
                  would account for their expression of "Love". They sign everything
                  with Love, and yet they may even do it after stating the most hateful
                  things. It is also of note that the higher up the eck spiritual ladder
                  (hierarchy), the more antisocial and in reality unloving and dis
                  compassionate they are. The person at the top, is often the most
                  Narcissistic and Sociopathic of all.

                  Nonekster ; )

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                  <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Mish and All,
                  > I think that when Eckists withhold emotions and feelings
                  > that they are trying to "act" detached. ECKists fear the
                  > Astral "emotions" and yet they use the Tirsa Til (Third Eye,
                  > and 6th Astral Chakra) when they chant HU in order to meet
                  > the "Master" in his "Astral" (Nuri Sarup) Light Body before
                  > continuing on, supposedly, with him to higher planes.
                  >
                  > Actually, when ECKists Do Not express emotions, feelings,
                  > and empathy they are imprinting, upon themselves, patterns
                  > of sociopathic behaviour. This negative attitude, also,
                  > encourages reclusiveness, passiveness, inaction, anti-social
                  > behaviour and the withholding of Love!
                  >
                  > http://www.9types.com/wwwboard/messages/18332.html
                  >
                  > Of course, some Eckists have an easier time of following
                  > this negative course of action than others by mimicking
                  > Klemp. Their rationalizations and delusional imaginings
                  > separate them from real people and real life experiences
                  > in general. This is Not a "spiritual" course of action and
                  > yet their comments are condoned and agreed with! It's
                  > true, ECKists are taught in Arahata Training Not to disagree
                  > with or add to what another has stated. Almost everything
                  > (unless it is Anti-ECK) is accepted as having acceptable truth,
                  > or being completely true from an ECKankar perspective.
                  > Just memorize and repeat what the EK brochures say. The
                  > same goes for those stories of about "EK" experiences, unless,
                  > it places a chela on an equal level or higher than Klemp...
                  > even for a second! Just ask Graham!
                  >
                  > Thus, only "EK stories" that are "officially approved" of
                  > (by Klemp or the ESC) should be retold and put into print,
                  > otherwise, they cannot be seen as truly "Valid" ECK experiences.
                  > The KAL could have been playing tricks on these ECKists.
                  > After all, Graham even HUed to protect himself and did
                  > this in order to have his "ECK" experience with a Silent
                  > One.
                  >
                  > Therefore, EK chelas have to limit their "ECK" experiences
                  > to the more mundane everyday and common place occurrences
                  > that everyone else experiences! BUT, EK initiates need to dedicate
                  > these "experiences" to the Mahanta's intervention. And, they
                  > imagine that these "positive" results were via a co-dependent
                  > relationship with the Klemp. Negative results or experiences,
                  > however, are seen as being from the KAL, as Karmic, or being
                  > a "spiritual" test. Catch-22, along with, "Co-workership with
                  > the Mahanta," has become another addition to Klemp's tool
                  > box of stall tactics to keep EK Members hanging on for life!
                  > There is No "Spiritual Freedom" or "Self-Mastery" in this lifetime
                  > or any other for ECKankarists! It's a pipe dream! It's time to
                  > WAKE UP ECKIES!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > mishmisha wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi, Jonathan and All!
                  >
                  > Regarding the eckankar message boards set up on Yahoo
                  > Groups, a friend keeps me posted on some of the goings
                  > on, especially with HuChat. I don't really read the posts
                  > much because it is basically same old nonsense! The
                  > eckists seem to be delusional explaining away every event
                  > in their lives as being the eck. They rely on inner experiences
                  > for truth rather than facing the reality of the now that is
                  > staring them in the face! They love HK of course and pick
                  > up on his every word . . . but of course they have to figure
                  > it out first since HK is so vague and talks in circles.
                  > He doesn't make sense so how can anyone make sense of
                  > what he says or writes??? LOL!
                  >
                  > Anyway, taking a quick browse this morning, here is what is
                  > being discussed on HuChat:
                  >
                  > 1. There is always the Quote of the Day, posted by one member
                  > everyday. When she is unable to post, someone else will post
                  > something for her. She uses one of HK's books and selects
                  > one of his quotes printed on the sidebar of a page. She never
                  > explains its meaning in context of how it is used in the book . . .
                  > might make for an interesting discussion if that was done, but
                  > I suppose they are afraid of misinterpreting and possibly upsetting
                  > the ESC??? There's a lot of fear on HuChat . . .
                  >
                  > 2. They are talking about the economy, asking sumad for help and
                  > seeing it as the kali yuga. Some are losing their jobs -- but someone
                  > posted that "eck takes care of money." So I suppose no reason for
                  > real worry here?
                  >
                  > 3. Another member posted that "eckankar is truly the way to sanity
                  > for me. . . . "
                  >
                  > 4. Another person said that he gives unemotional love . . . I didn't
                  > realize that love could be unemotional? I don't get this at all . . .
                  > how can you love without emotion? I suppose this is the "love"
                  > that HK exhibits . . . easy to sign off with "love" but not really
                  > mean it. That would be unemotional love to me. Just saying it but
                  > not really meaning it! That's not nice.
                  >
                  > Jonathan, in regards to your questions:
                  >
                  > They keep the discussions rather low key and light for the most
                  > part. If someone asks or comments on anything controversial
                  > regarding eckankar, the discussion is shut down and the person
                  > asking becomes suspect of motive. Posts will be deleted or not
                  > posted. And members will be reminded of the rules for posting.
                  > Some members have been booted and banned from the group.
                  >
                  > I don't think there are real trouble makers there, but they are
                  > very cautious with membership. They don't want people reading
                  > their posts unless they are really true blue eckists. I don't blame
                  > them in a way because they are scrutinized but yet why should
                  > they worry about what they post being read by outsiders? Keeping
                  > it closed in my opinion suggests that the org is not on the up and
                  > up and very suspect. It waves a red flag.
                  >
                  > I'm not sure about having to give an eck id but I don't think so.
                  > I believe they want full names so they can possibly check a "suspect"
                  > member for eck membership status/validation. They will badger a
                  > person until he/she gives their real name.
                  >
                  > They are paranoid about new members--suspecting them as being
                  > trolls. Some old time members are really quite full of themselves.
                  > They are very confident that they "get" what eck is all about and
                  > what HK means, etc. They can come off as arrogant know it alls, and
                  > of course those who feel new or less spiritually evolved will hang
                  > onto their posted words. So there is a sort of hierarchy going on.
                  > You can even sense a looking down on some posters comments.
                  > What I love the most though is noting how they will sign off in
                  > their posts. If they are upset or "pissed off" by what a poster has
                  > written, they will sign off "in eck" rather than with "eck love". They
                  > will omit the "love"!! I guess that is a form of punishment? But it
                  > also shows a lack of love, being judgmental and intolerant . . .
                  >
                  > I hope this helps answer your questions. You were in eckankar 29
                  > years. At what year did you get your 5th? I'm enjoying your posts.
                  > I've been reading but not posting so much lately!
                  >
                  > Mish
                  >
                  >
                  > jonathanjohns wrote:
                  > >
                  > > All,
                  > >
                  > > Anyone know anything about the private (members-only) Eckankar
                  > > message boards?
                  > >
                  > > Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished I had looked
                  > > at some of the private Eckankar message boards. Not for any
                  > > particular reason other than I was curious about what was going on
                  > > there. But I left Eckankar anyway, without doing that, because I
                  > > wasn't going to let that hold me up.
                  > >
                  > > I have some questions about the private (members-only) Eckankar
                  > > message boards.
                  >
                  > > 1. Do they talk about the same ekstuff as everywhere else in
                  > > Eckankar?
                  >
                  > > 2. Do they get into any controversial topics?
                  >
                  > > 3. Ever see any troublemakers there that snuck in somehow and are
                  > > posting spam or are flaming the message board?
                  >
                  > > 4. Do members of Eckankar have to give their full name when they sign
                  > > up? Do they have to give their full Eckankar ID number when they sign
                  > > up? In other words, is the message board potentially keeping track of
                  > > what Eckists are saying there?
                  > >
                  > > I stayed in Eckankar long enough to get my fifth initiation. I was
                  > > always curious what went on in the Higher Initiate meetings. After
                  > > attending several of them I discovered that the higher initiate
                  > > meetings weren't intrinsically different that the "regular" meetings
                  > > I had been attending for my previous 29 years in Eckankar.
                  > >
                  > > Jonathan
                  > >
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Leanne Thompson wrote: are the books for higher initiates the same as the regular chelas?   Thank you Leanne Prometheus wrote: Hi Leanne, The Members Only
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 13, 2009
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                    Leanne Thompson wrote:

                    are the books for higher initiates the same as the regular chelas?
                     
                    Thank you
                    Leanne

                    Prometheus wrote:
                    Hi Leanne,
                    The "Members Only" books for both Higher (5-9) and
                    Lower (1-4) EK Initiates are similar. However, the H.I.
                    Leadership Book does vary, somewhat, from the L.I.
                    Leadership Book. Klemp is much more critical of his
                    ECK Leaders in the H.I. Leadership Book than he is in
                    the L.I. version. Other than that, the stories and such
                    are similar to what you would find in books for Non-
                    members. The main difference is that there're more
                    promotional (vahana) tips and things of that nature.


                    > jonathanjohns wrote:
                    >
                    > All,
                    >
                    > Anyone know anything about the private (members-only) Eckankar
                    > message boards?
                    >
                    > Right before I left Eckakar I was thinking that I wished I had looked
                    > at some of the private Eckankar message boards. Not for any
                    > particular reason other than I was curious about what was going on
                    > there. But I left Eckankar anyway, without doing that, because I
                    > wasn't going to let that hold me up.
                    >
                    > I have some questions about the private (members-only) Eckankar
                    > message boards.
                    > 1. Do they talk about the same ekstuff as everywhere else in
                    > Eckankar?
                    > 2. Do they get into any controversial topics?
                    > 3. Ever see any troublemakers there that snuck in somehow and are
                    > posting spam or are flaming the message board?
                    > 4. Do members of Eckankar have to give their full name when they sign
                    > up? Do they have to give their full Eckankar ID number when they sign
                    > up? In other words, is the message board potentially keeping track of
                    > what Eckists are saying there?
                    >
                    > I stayed in Eckankar long enough to get my fifth initiation. I was
                    > always curious what went on in the Higher Initiate meetings. After
                    > attending several of them I discovered that the higher initiate
                    > meetings weren't intrinsically different that the "regular" meetings
                    > I had been attending for my previous 29 years in Eckankar.
                    >
                    > Jonathan
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    Hello Etznab and All, I had met a guy at an EK Seminar about 30 years ago and found out that he had been a 4th for a few years. He had given intros on college
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 13, 2009
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                      Hello Etznab and All,
                      I had met a guy at an EK Seminar about 30 years
                      ago and found out that he had been a 4th for a few
                      years. He had given intros on college campuses in
                      the 1970s and was very knowledgeable about vahana
                      methods.

                      He owned a Vitamin/Health Food Warehouse in Texas.
                      I'd usually run into him at EK Seminars over the years
                      and end up chatting with him on all sorts of topics.
                      He dressed kind of quirky and would doze off in
                      workshops and roundtables, but he seemed very
                      kind and genuine. Maybe he dozed off because
                      he had heard it all before, or was getting it
                      on the "inner."

                      Needless to say I was very surprised to see that
                      he was still a 4th year after year. I think that the
                      last time that I ran into him was in 1998 and he
                      was still a 4th initiate!

                      I don't get it! He said he had health food stores
                      where he carried ECK books and would put out
                      brochures and pocket posters and special events
                      posters... shouldn't that and everything else he
                      had done over the years qualify him for a 5th?

                      Anyway, I can see why he was falling asleep due
                      to hearing all of the redundancy year after year
                      not to mention the pressures of running a business.
                      Personally, I could never have hung in there waiting
                      for that coveted 5th for that long! Or, many he just
                      didn't care or need what Klemp had to give him!
                      But, let's face it, when you can't do anything about
                      a situation it always helps to rationalize, or delude
                      yourself.

                      However, are most ECKists really all that detached
                      when it comes to the Initiations? Not really! Most
                      (who don't get those initiations) just "imagine"
                      that they're higher! All ECKists do this! Since Klemp
                      "slowed things down" chelas need to do some heavy
                      duty pretending. Still, it seemed that Klemp was
                      ignoring and disrespecting this guy. I felt sorry for
                      him because others who knew him, too, kind of saw
                      him as an outcast or oddity. The truth was probably
                      that his RESA was anal retentive and didn't approve
                      him to get the 5th!

                      So, it seems that this one ECKist was a 4th for about
                      30 years! Then again, there are other H.I.s that have
                      been 7ths for about 20-30 years as well! Of course,
                      even though they've, basically, "topped out" it's hard
                      to feel sorry for them since most tend to look down
                      upon others from their high and "spiritually evolved"
                      perches. But, it also shows that the ones who have
                      been in EK longest and are higher in rank are also
                      the more foolish ones. Sure, they can parrot the EK
                      dogma easily and are good speakers, business leaders,
                      and organizers, and they are really really good at
                      pretending, but that's about it! "Highly Evolved Souls"
                      (i.e. Masters).... Nope! Nice people? Many are and
                      many aren't! EK's really just a slice of life!

                      Prometheus



                      etznab wrote:

                      Jonathan,

                      Things seem to have "slowed down" if it took
                      29 years to become a 5th.

                      Was your membership current the whole time?
                      No breaks?

                      I wonder why it was people got initiations much
                      quicker years ago (like, most of the clergy today).

                      Nowadays it looks like there are no new discourses
                      (haven't been for some time), no new Shariyat's
                      and it takes many more years between initiations.

                      Someplace recently I read that the 1971 Seminar
                      was supposed to be "Consciousness Five" or some-
                      thing like that.

                      About things "slowing down" my impression, from
                      what Harold gave out years ago, was that this was
                      somehow on account of the Eckists wanting to go
                      "slow". I'll have to find the quote to be sure.

                      Personally, I tend to think things should be going
                      faster, not slower, if world karma is speeding up
                      & all that. Like the 2012 stuff, etc..

                      Etznab

                      Jonathan wrote:

                      Mish,

                      Thanks a lot for the very thorough answer to my question.
                      You painted a very good picture for me. For the most part
                      you told me what I expected to hear, but I learned a very
                      good rule a long time ago "Never assume" so I am appreciative
                      of your lengthy response.

                      I had to look up HuChat becuase I didn't even know what that
                      is. It seems to be a Yahoo message board. In your discussion
                      of HuChat, believe it or not I was somewhat surprised when
                      you said "They love HK of course and pick up on his every word."
                      I didn't realize they would be that 100% in favor of HK. I guess
                      I shouldn't have been surprised.

                      I know there are a few members of Eckankar who can think for
                      themselves, but like I did, they probabaly keep quiet about it.
                      You wouldn't see them on HuChat because their attitude would
                      be "Why bother expressing a real opinion. It's just going to stir
                      up a hornet's nest against me." Plus, if they used their real name
                      they would be on a list at "Headquarters" very quickly. It all adds
                      up to your comment that "There's a lot of fear on HuChat." So
                      I can see why the conversation stays low key.

                      The person who was talking about "unemotional love" was probably
                      referring to "unconditional love." The concept of "unconditional
                      love" is one of the worthwhile things that I learned in Eckankar.
                      It basically means that you accept other people as they are.

                      In response to your question, I joined in 1979, I received my
                      fifth initiation in early 2008, and I left at the very end of 2008.
                      Just long enough to attend a few higher initiate meetings.

                      Jonathan
                    • etznab@aol.com
                      Prometheus, The clergy are basically the facilitators for the Eckankar Worship Service and for most of the other official Eckankar events for the public. If
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 14, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Prometheus,

                        The clergy are basically the facilitators for
                        the Eckankar Worship Service and for most
                        of the other "official" Eckankar events for the
                        public. If you are not a 5th, chances are you
                        will be listening (at Worship service) to those
                        who are. Listening to them facilitate.

                        I've been listening to the same handful of
                        H.I.s on Sunday for decades. Of course the
                        panels & roundtables allow others to speak
                        and participate, too.

                        (I mean, mostly the same handful.)

                        For once it would be nice to watch others
                        facilitate, IMO, and that is why I wish it didn't
                        take so long between initiations.

                        Without many new people in the area, too,
                        sometimes things can get monotonous and
                        somewhat routine.

                        I like to see different perspectives from
                        different people. Especially the newer and
                        younger generations. I haven't seen much
                        of that, compared to the "old-timers".

                        Etznab

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 6:54 pm
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Anyone know anything about
                        the private Eckankar message boards?



                        Hello Etznab and All,

                        I had met a guy at an EK Seminar about 30 years

                        ago and found out that he had been a 4th for a few

                        years. He had given intros on college campuses in

                        the 1970s and was very knowledgeable about vahana

                        methods.

                        =0
                        A

                        He owned a Vitamin/Health Food Warehouse in Texas.

                        I'd usually run into him at EK Seminars over the years

                        and end up chatting with him on all sorts of topics.

                        He dressed kind of quirky and would doze off in

                        workshops and roundtables, but he seemed very

                        kind and genuine. Maybe he dozed off because

                        he had heard it all before, or was getting it

                        on the "inner."



                        Needless to say I was very surprised to see that

                        he was still a 4th year after year. I think that the

                        last time that I ran into him was in 1998 and he

                        was still a 4th initiate!



                        I don't get it! He said he had health food stores

                        where he carried ECK books and would put out

                        brochures and pocket posters and special events

                        posters... shouldn't that and everything else he

                        had done over the years qualify him for a 5th?



                        Anyway, I can see why he was falling asleep due

                        to hearing all of the redundancy year after year

                        not to mention the pressures of running a business.

                        Personally, I could never have hung in there waiting

                        for that coveted 5th for that long! Or, many he just

                        didn't care or need what Klemp had to give him!

                        But, let's face it, when you can't do anything about

                        a situation it always helps to rationalize, or delude

                        yourself.



                        However, are most ECKists really all that detached

                        when it comes to
                        the Initiations? Not really! Most

                        (who don't get those initiations) just "imagine"

                        that they're higher! All ECKists do this! Since Klemp

                        "slowed things down" chelas need to do some heavy

                        duty pretending. Still, it seemed that Klemp was

                        ignoring and disrespecting this guy. I felt sorry for

                        him because others who knew him, too, kind of saw

                        him as an outcast or oddity. The truth was probably

                        that his RESA was anal retentive and didn't approve

                        him to get the 5th!



                        So, it seems that this one ECKist was a 4th for about

                        30 years! Then again, there are other H.I.s that have

                        been 7ths for about 20-30 years as well! Of course,

                        even though they've, basically, "topped out" it's hard

                        to feel sorry for them since most tend to look down

                        upon others from their high and "spiritually evolved"

                        perches. But, it also shows that the ones who have

                        been in EK longest and are higher in rank are also

                        the more foolish ones. Sure, they can parrot the EK

                        dogma easily and are good speakers, business leaders,

                        and organizers, and they are really really good at

                        pretending, but that's about it! "Highly Evolved Souls"

                        (i.e. Masters).... Nope! Nice people? Many are and

                        many aren't! EK's really just a slice of life!



                        Prometheus







                        etznab wrote:



                        Jonathan,



                        Things seem to have "slowed down" if=2
                        0it took

                        29 years to become a 5th.



                        Was your membership current the whole time?

                        No breaks?



                        I wonder why it was people got initiations much

                        quicker years ago (like, most of the clergy today).



                        Nowadays it looks like there are no new discourses

                        (haven't been for some time), no new Shariyat's

                        and it takes many more years between initiations.



                        Someplace recently I read that the 1971 Seminar

                        was supposed to be "Consciousness Five" or some-

                        thing like that.



                        About things "slowing down" my impression, from

                        what Harold gave out years ago, was that this was

                        somehow on account of the Eckists wanting to go

                        "slow". I'll have to find the quote to be sure.



                        Personally, I tend to think things should be going

                        faster, not slower, if world karma is speeding up

                        & all that. Like the 2012 stuff, etc..



                        Etznab



                        Jonathan wrote:



                        Mish,



                        Thanks a lot for the very thorough answer to my question.

                        You painted a very good picture for me. For the most part

                        you told me what I expected to hear, but I learned a very

                        good rule a long time ago "Never assume" so I am appreciative

                        of your lengthy response.



                        I had to look up HuChat becuase I didn't even know what that

                        is. It seems to be a Yahoo message board. In your discussion

                        of HuCha
                        t, believe it or not I was somewhat surprised when

                        you said "They love HK of course and pick up on his every word."

                        I didn't realize they would be that 100% in favor of HK. I guess

                        I shouldn't have been surprised.



                        I know there are a few members of Eckankar who can think for

                        themselves, but like I did, they probabaly keep quiet about it.

                        You wouldn't see them on HuChat because their attitude would

                        be "Why bother expressing a real opinion. It's just going to stir

                        up a hornet's nest against me." Plus, if they used their real name

                        they would be on a list at "Headquarters" very quickly. It all adds

                        up to your comment that "There's a lot of fear on HuChat." So

                        I can see why the conversation stays low key.



                        The person who was talking about "unemotional love" was probably

                        referring to "unconditional love." The concept of "unconditional

                        love" is one of the worthwhile things that I learned in Eckankar.

                        It basically means that you accept other people as they are.



                        In response to your question, I joined in 1979, I received my

                        fifth initiation in early 2008, and I left at the very end of 2008.

                        Just long enough to attend a few higher initiate meetings.



                        Jonathan
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