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Various Definitions for "Eckankar"

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  • D.R.D.
    I was somewhat surprised to look at definitions in the Eckankar dict- ionary, not only for Eckankar, but I found definitions for EK and ECK as well. The
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 7, 2009
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      I was somewhat surprised to look
      at definitions in the Eckankar dict-
      ionary, not only for Eckankar, but I
      found definitions for "EK" and "ECK"
      as well. The two latter words seemed
      to have similar themes in the defin-
      ition. The word "Ecstasies" connected
      with the definition for "EK" appears
      to suggest the Greek root "ek" which
      does not appear to mean "one".

      Now I am wondering, based on those
      definitions, whether the beginning of
      the word "Eckankar" has to do with the
      idea of "one".

      Here is what some have claimed was
      Guru Nanak's remarks:

      "If there is one God, then there is
      only His way to attain Him, not another.
      One must follow that way and reject the
      other. Worship not him who is born only
      to die, but Him who is eternal and is
      contained in the whole universe."

      http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html

      Also on the same link:

      "There are worlds and more worlds below
      them and there are a hundred thousand skies
      over them. No one has been able to find the
      limits and boundaries of God. If there be
      any account of God, than alone the mortal
      can write the same; but Gods account does
      not finish and the mortal himself dies while
      still writing. Nanak says that one should
      call Him great, and God Himself knows His
      ownself." (Japji)

      http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html

      A beginning of Japji I have seen has:

      Ek onkar satnam karta purakhu

      which according to one report means:

      "The One Reality, the True Name, the
      Eternal and Creative Source of all,

      (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap.
      12)

      Another source gives:

      "Ek Onkar Satnam Karta Purush Nirbhau
      Virvair Akal Murat, Ajuni Saibhang
      Gurprasad(i)"

      The English rendering would approx-
      imate to:

      There is One and only One God who is
      transcendent as well as immanent. True
      and Eternal Name. Creator and Person.
      Without Fear and without Enmity. Timeless
      Form, Unborn, Self-existent. Realized by
      Divine Grace.

      http://www.sikhs.org/art1.htm

      By the time Paul Twitchell mentioned
      "Eckankar" in 1963 the definition from
      his Cliff Hanger article included:

      ....

      This zany character is called the vanguard
      of a new religion entitled "Eckankar," a
      Hindu word meaning Union with God.

      Here Paul makes it appear as a Hindu
      word meaning Union with God. Later, the
      definition would take on other meanings
      like "co-worker with God", it seems.

      I still imagine that earlier idea of
      "one" should be in the definition some-
      where. I think it might be hinted at in
      the remark:

      "Everyone has there own Eckankar."

      I wonder if this could suggest every-
      one has their own "corporation sole" too?
      In a manner of speaking. That the head of
      "Eckankar" for evey one individual is ult-
      imately their own personal experience and
      not necessarily the experiences of others.
      Perhaps I shouldn't have to wonder.

      Etznab
    • jonathanjohns96
      Etznab, First of all, please don t take my emotionals in this reply personally. I just looked through my posts regarding the native Hindi speaker from northern
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 8, 2009
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        Etznab,

        First of all, please don't take my emotionals in this reply
        personally.

        I just looked through my posts regarding the native Hindi speaker
        from northern India whom I know. I thought that I posted my
        discussion with her regarding "Ik onkaar/Ek Ong Kar. It appears that
        I didn't although in my original post about the "Madison Avenue
        approach to Eckankar" I briefly mention a clarification
        regarding "Ik" being a Hindi word, wheres "Ek/Eck" being more likely
        the Punjabi spelling. The problem is that I apparently never made a
        really detailed original post about this.

        So I am backtracking and telling you what happened when this lady
        from Northern India (A brilliant individual I might add.) first told
        me about "Ik onkaar." This was back in December, 2008 as I was in the
        final stages of leaving Eckankar.

        Here is a link to "ik onkaar" on Wikipedia:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ek_Onkar

        It states

        "Ik Onkar (Roman transliteration Ik Onkar) means one God and is a
        central tenet of Sikh religious philosophy."

        and

        "Ik Onkar is the first phrase in the Mul Mantra meaning "there is
        only one God".[2] It is found in the Gurmukhi language[3] and is a
        combination of two characters: the numeral Ik (one) and the first
        letter of the word Onkar (God) - which happens to be the first letter
        of the Gurmukhi script with a specially adapted vowel symbol, and is
        derived from Sanskrit."

        My acquaintance from Northern India told me that "ik onkaar/ek ong
        kar" is THE central tenant of Sikhism, not "a central tenet" as this
        Wikipedia article suggests. Another mistake in this Wikipedia article
        is that Gurmukhi is a script, not a language.

        The "Mul Mantra" on Wikipedia explains this fact more acurately.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_Mantra

        Wikipedia states:

        "The Mul Mantar [sic: should be "Mantra"] (Punjab) is the most
        important concept within the Guru Granth Sahib, and is considered the
        basis of Sikh theology; a position that is emphasized by its
        appearance as the first composition written in the Granth. It is said
        that the Mul Mantar was the first composition of Guru Nanak."

        So this quote from Wikipedia more accurately shows that "ik onkaar/ek
        ong kar" is the most important tenant in Sikhism. It also states that
        Mul Mantra is a Punjabi word. Why are the words "Mul Mantra" from the
        Punjabi language? Because 99% of Sikhs:
        1. Live in the state of The Punjab in India.
        2. They speak the Punjabi language.
        3. Most of the men wear turbans.
        4. Almost all of them have the surname "Singh."

        (Just find a photo of the current prime minister of India.)
        (Or look up Kirpal Singh in Wikipedia)
        (Or go to a website for Kirpla Singh's free talks. You will find that
        his talks are in English, Hindi, and Punjabi.)

        I need to get back to my acquaintance from India. When I asked her
        about "ik onkaar/ek ong kar" I did not show her the transliterated
        form ("ik onkaar/ek ong kar" is the transliterated form). I went to
        Wordanywhere.com, typed in the hindi word "ik" and found the "Indian"
        script. I copied the "Indian" script for Ik into a graphic file. I
        then did the same for the Hindi word "onkaar." I then combined these
        two script "characters" into one graphic file and showed it to her.
        She pronounced it and told me that this means "one God" and that it
        is a central tenant in Hinduism (Please note that she
        said "Hinduism," not Sikhism!). I wrote down "Ek ankar" and she
        corrected me saying "It should be spelled "ik." She added "And the
        second word is spelled "onkaar." And then added "Ek" is more the
        spelling in the Punjabi language. She also went onto explain about
        Sikhism saying that "Ek ong kar" (the Punjabi spelling) means the
        same thing in Sikhism and Hinduism, but is THE central tenant in
        Sikhism. FRom her point of view as a devout Hindu, she described "One
        God" as meaning "the universal, omnipresent, universal God."
        (Eckankar's Sugmad) She explained that both Hindus and Sikhs
        worship "ik onkaar/ek ong kar", but Hindus also worship the Hindu
        deities, Sikhs don't. One of the main differences that occurred when
        Sikhism split off from Hinduism is that they removed the Hindu
        deities from their religion.

        I hope this explains it. I would strongly encourage you to print out
        the "Indian" script of "One God" find a Hindu ir a Sikh, and ask them
        what it means. It think it will be a real eye opener for you.

        How anybody can read this post and not conclude that Ek Ong Kar
        doesn't point squarely to Sikhism and Kirpal Singh who is
        automatically a Sikh based solel on his surname, is beyond my
        comprehension.

        Thanks for bringing this up, because I know I posted bits and pieces
        of this, but certainly not a detailed version explaining my complete
        interaction with her.

        Jonathan Johns


        Etznab wrote:
        >
        > I was somewhat surprised to look
        > at definitions in the Eckankar dict-
        > ionary, not only for Eckankar, but I
        > found definitions for "EK" and "ECK"
        > as well. The two latter words seemed
        > to have similar themes in the defin-
        > ition. The word "Ecstasies" connected
        > with the definition for "EK" appears
        > to suggest the Greek root "ek" which
        > does not appear to mean "one".
        >
        > Now I am wondering, based on those
        > definitions, whether the beginning of
        > the word "Eckankar" has to do with the
        > idea of "one".
        >
        > Here is what some have claimed was
        > Guru Nanak's remarks:
        >
        > "If there is one God, then there is
        > only His way to attain Him, not another.
        > One must follow that way and reject the
        > other. Worship not him who is born only
        > to die, but Him who is eternal and is
        > contained in the whole universe."
        >
        > http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html
        >
        > Also on the same link:
        >
        > "There are worlds and more worlds below
        > them and there are a hundred thousand skies
        > over them. No one has been able to find the
        > limits and boundaries of God. If there be
        > any account of God, than alone the mortal
        > can write the same; but Gods account does
        > not finish and the mortal himself dies while
        > still writing. Nanak says that one should
        > call Him great, and God Himself knows His
        > ownself." (Japji)
        >
        > http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html
        >
        > A beginning of Japji I have seen has:
        >
        > Ek onkar satnam karta purakhu
        >
        > which according to one report means:
        >
        > "The One Reality, the True Name, the
        > Eternal and Creative Source of all,
        >
        > (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap.
        > 12)
        >
        > Another source gives:
        >
        > "Ek Onkar Satnam Karta Purush Nirbhau
        > Virvair Akal Murat, Ajuni Saibhang
        > Gurprasad(i)"
        >
        > The English rendering would approx-
        > imate to:
        >
        > There is One and only One God who is
        > transcendent as well as immanent. True
        > and Eternal Name. Creator and Person.
        > Without Fear and without Enmity. Timeless
        > Form, Unborn, Self-existent. Realized by
        > Divine Grace.
        >
        > http://www.sikhs.org/art1.htm
        >
        > By the time Paul Twitchell mentioned
        > "Eckankar" in 1963 the definition from
        > his Cliff Hanger article included:
        >
        > ....
        >
        > This zany character is called the vanguard
        > of a new religion entitled "Eckankar," a
        > Hindu word meaning Union with God.
        >
        > Here Paul makes it appear as a Hindu
        > word meaning Union with God. Later, the
        > definition would take on other meanings
        > like "co-worker with God", it seems.
        >
        > I still imagine that earlier idea of
        > "one" should be in the definition some-
        > where. I think it might be hinted at in
        > the remark:
        >
        > "Everyone has there own Eckankar."
        >
        > I wonder if this could suggest every-
        > one has their own "corporation sole" too?
        > In a manner of speaking. That the head of
        > "Eckankar" for evey one individual is ult-
        > imately their own personal experience and
        > not necessarily the experiences of others.
        > Perhaps I shouldn't have to wonder.
        >
        > Etznab
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, Yes, Twitchell took Eastern words and Eastern Religious Sects (religions) and Westernized them to make them his own copyrights and trademarks!
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 8, 2009
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          Hello All,
          Yes, Twitchell took Eastern words and Eastern
          Religious Sects (religions) and Westernized them
          to make them his own copyrights and trademarks!

          Twitchell used the 1939 Copyright of "The Path of
          the Masters" as his guide in order to create Eckankar.

          In the "Glossary of Foreign Terms" (from "The Path
          of the Masters") is this term and definition:

          "Ekonkar.--The one supreme all-inclusive God."


          On page 283 (Eleventh edition of "The Path of the Masters")
          are these comments:

          "In the literature of the Saints, God is expressed by
          many words, such as Swami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha-
          swami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush,
          Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Roy, Akshar, Parameshwar,
          Akshar Purush, etc."

          [Notice how many of these words can be found in P.T.'s
          EK Dictionary and H.K.'s EK Lexicon and some with only
          slight changes in spelling! Check it out for yourself!]


          On page 283 (Eleventh edition of "The Path of the Masters")
          is this same spelling and definition:

          "Ekankar means the 'One oneness,' the body of oneness."


          On page 284 are these comments about Ekankar:

          "The whole universe is considered as ONE, the true
          Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe,
          which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited.
          Hence the Soami is Nirankar, i.e. formless. As such
          he is without personality, hence without name."

          Interesting that this "infinite, unlimited" and "formless
          God.. without personality or name" that "he" isn't without
          gender too!

          Anyway, it's plain to see that Twit added the letter
          "c" in order to make "Eckankar" into a copyrighted
          term! This is just one common technique that con
          artists and scammers (who counterfeit the works
          of others) use.

          Thus, Ekankar became Eckankar! Catch-22!

          Prometheus


          jonathan wrote:

          Etznab,

          First of all, please don't take my emotionals in this reply
          personally.

          I just looked through my posts regarding the native Hindi speaker
          from northern India whom I know. I thought that I posted my
          discussion with her regarding "Ik onkaar/Ek Ong Kar. It appears that
          I didn't although in my original post about the "Madison Avenue
          approach to Eckankar" I briefly mention a clarification
          regarding "Ik" being a Hindi word, wheres "Ek/Eck" being more likely
          the Punjabi spelling. The problem is that I apparently never made a
          really detailed original post about this.

          So I am backtracking and telling you what happened when this lady
          from Northern India (A brilliant individual I might add.) first told
          me about "Ik onkaar." This was back in December, 2008 as I was in the
          final stages of leaving Eckankar.

          Here is a link to "ik onkaar" on Wikipedia:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ek_Onkar

          It states

          "Ik Onkar (Roman transliteration Ik Onkar) means one God and is a
          central tenet of Sikh religious philosophy."

          and

          "Ik Onkar is the first phrase in the Mul Mantra meaning "there is
          only one God".[2] It is found in the Gurmukhi language[3] and is a
          combination of two characters: the numeral Ik (one) and the first
          letter of the word Onkar (God) - which happens to be the first letter
          of the Gurmukhi script with a specially adapted vowel symbol, and is
          derived from Sanskrit."

          My acquaintance from Northern India told me that "ik onkaar/ek ong
          kar" is THE central tenant of Sikhism, not "a central tenet" as this
          Wikipedia article suggests. Another mistake in this Wikipedia article
          is that Gurmukhi is a script, not a language.

          The "Mul Mantra" on Wikipedia explains this fact more acurately.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_Mantra

          Wikipedia states:

          "The Mul Mantar [sic: should be "Mantra"] (Punjab) is the most
          important concept within the Guru Granth Sahib, and is considered the
          basis of Sikh theology; a position that is emphasized by its
          appearance as the first composition written in the Granth. It is said
          that the Mul Mantar was the first composition of Guru Nanak."

          So this quote from Wikipedia more accurately shows that "ik onkaar/ek
          ong kar" is the most important tenant in Sikhism. It also states that
          Mul Mantra is a Punjabi word. Why are the words "Mul Mantra" from the
          Punjabi language? Because 99% of Sikhs:

          1. Live in the state of The Punjab in India.
          2. They speak the Punjabi language.
          3. Most of the men wear turbans.
          4. Almost all of them have the surname "Singh."

          (Just find a photo of the current prime minister of India.)
          (Or look up Kirpal Singh in Wikipedia)
          (Or go to a website for Kirpla Singh's free talks. You will find that
          his talks are in English, Hindi, and Punjabi.)

          I need to get back to my acquaintance from India. When I asked her
          about "ik onkaar/ek ong kar" I did not show her the transliterated
          form ("ik onkaar/ek ong kar" is the transliterated form). I went to
          Wordanywhere.com, typed in the hindi word "ik" and found the "Indian"
          script. I copied the "Indian" script for Ik into a graphic file. I
          then did the same for the Hindi word "onkaar." I then combined these
          two script "characters" into one graphic file and showed it to her.
          She pronounced it and told me that this means "one God" and that it
          is a central tenant in Hinduism (Please note that she
          said "Hinduism," not Sikhism!). I wrote down "Ek ankar" and she
          corrected me saying "It should be spelled "ik." She added "And the
          second word is spelled "onkaar." And then added "Ek" is more the
          spelling in the Punjabi language. She also went onto explain about
          Sikhism saying that "Ek ong kar" (the Punjabi spelling) means the
          same thing in Sikhism and Hinduism, but is THE central tenant in
          Sikhism. FRom her point of view as a devout Hindu, she described "One
          God" as meaning "the universal, omnipresent, universal God."
          (Eckankar's Sugmad) She explained that both Hindus and Sikhs
          worship "ik onkaar/ek ong kar", but Hindus also worship the Hindu
          deities, Sikhs don't. One of the main differences that occurred when
          Sikhism split off from Hinduism is that they removed the Hindu
          deities from their religion.

          I hope this explains it. I would strongly encourage you to print out
          the "Indian" script of "One God" find a Hindu ir a Sikh, and ask them
          what it means. It think it will be a real eye opener for you.

          How anybody can read this post and not conclude that Ek Ong Kar
          doesn't point squarely to Sikhism and Kirpal Singh who is
          automatically a Sikh based solel on his surname, is beyond my
          comprehension.

          Thanks for bringing this up, because I know I posted bits and pieces
          of this, but certainly not a detailed version explaining my complete
          interaction with her.

          Jonathan Johns


          Etznab wrote:
          >
          I was somewhat surprised to look at definitions in the
          Eckankar dictionary, not only for Eckankar, but I found
          definitions for "EK" and "ECK" as well. The two latter words
          seemed to have similar themes in the definition. The word
          "Ecstasies" connected with the definition for "EK" appears
          to suggest the Greek root "ek" which does not appear to
          mean "one".
          >
          Now I am wondering, based on those definitions, whether
          the beginning of the word "Eckankar" has to do with the
          idea of "one".
          >
          Here is what some have claimed was Guru Nanak's remarks:
          >
          "If there is one God, then there is
          only His way to attain Him, not another.
          One must follow that way and reject the
          other. Worship not him who is born only
          to die, but Him who is eternal and is
          contained in the whole universe."
          >
          http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html
          >
          Also on the same link:
          >
          "There are worlds and more worlds below
          them and there are a hundred thousand skies
          over them. No one has been able to find the
          limits and boundaries of God. If there be
          any account of God, than alone the mortal
          can write the same; but Gods account does
          not finish and the mortal himself dies while
          still writing. Nanak says that one should
          call Him great, and God Himself knows His
          own self." (Japji)
          >
          http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html
          >
          A beginning of Japji I have seen has:
          >
          Ek onkar satnam karta purakhu which according
          to one report means:
          >
          "The One Reality, the True Name, the
          Eternal and Creative Source of all,
          >
          (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap.12)
          >
          Another source gives:
          >
          "Ek Onkar Satnam Karta Purush Nirbhau
          Virvair Akal Murat, Ajuni Saibhang
          Gurprasad(i)"
          >
          The English rendering would approximate to:
          >
          There is One and only One God who is
          transcendent as well as immanent. True
          and Eternal Name. Creator and Person.
          Without Fear and without Enmity. Timeless
          Form, Unborn, Self-existent. Realized by
          Divine Grace.
          >
          http://www.sikhs.org/art1.htm
          >
          By the time Paul Twitchell mentioned
          "Eckankar" in 1963 the definition from
          his Cliff Hanger article included:
          >
          "....This zany character is called the vanguard
          of a new religion entitled "Eckankar," a
          Hindu word meaning Union with God.
          >
          Here Paul makes it appear as a Hindu
          word meaning Union with God. Later, the
          definition would take on other meanings
          like "co-worker with God", it seems.
          >
          I still imagine that earlier idea of
          "one" should be in the definition some-
          where. I think it might be hinted at in
          the remark:
          >
          "Everyone has there own Eckankar."
          >
          I wonder if this could suggest every-
          one has their own "corporation sole" too?
          In a manner of speaking. That the head of
          "Eckankar" for evey one individual is ultimately
          their own personal experience and not
          necessarily the experiences of others.

          Perhaps I shouldn't have to wonder.
          >
          Etznab
        • etznab@aol.com
          Jonathan, Yes, I have seen it ex onkar spelled with an i . And with two a s, too. Etznab ... From: prometheus_973 To:
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 10, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Jonathan,

            Yes, I have seen it "ex onkar" spelled with an "i".
            And with two "a"s, too.

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:49 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Various Definitions and Spellings
            for P.T.'s & H.K.'s "Eckankar"



            Hello All,

            Yes, Twitchell took Eastern words and Eastern

            Religious Sects (religions) and Westernized them

            to make them his own copyrights and trademarks!



            Twitchell used the 1939 Copyright of "The Path of

            the Masters" as his guide in order to create Eckankar.



            In the "Glossary of Foreign Terms" (from "The Path

            of the Masters") is this term and definition:



            "Ekonkar.--The one supreme all-inclusive God."



            On page 283 (Eleventh edition of "The Path of the Masters")

            are these comments:



            "In the literature of the Saints, God is expressed by

            many words, such as Swami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha-

            swami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush,

            Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Roy, Akshar, Parameshwar,

            Akshar Purush, etc."



            [Notice how many of these words can be found in P.T.'s

            EK Dictionary and H.K.'s EK Lexicon and some with only

            slight changes in spelling! Check it out for yourself!]



            On page 283 (Eleventh edition of "The Path of the Masters")

            is this same=2
            0spelling and definition:



            "Ekankar means the 'One oneness,' the body of oneness."



            On page 284 are these comments about Ekankar:



            "The whole universe is considered as ONE, the true

            Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe,

            which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited.

            Hence the Soami is Nirankar, i.e. formless. As such

            he is without personality, hence without name."



            Interesting that this "infinite, unlimited" and "formless

            God.. without personality or name" that "he" isn't without

            gender too!



            Anyway, it's plain to see that Twit added the letter

            "c" in order to make "Eckankar" into a copyrighted

            term! This is just one common technique that con

            artists and scammers (who counterfeit the works

            of others) use.



            Thus, Ekankar became Eckankar! Catch-22!



            Prometheus



            jonathan wrote:



            Etznab,



            First of all, please don't take my emotionals in this reply

            personally.



            I just looked through my posts regarding the native Hindi speaker

            from northern India whom I know. I thought that I posted my

            discussion with her regarding "Ik onkaar/Ek Ong Kar. It appears that

            I didn't although in my original post about the "Madison Avenue

            approach to Eckankar" I briefly mention a clarification

            regarding "Ik" being a Hindi word, wheres "Ek/Eck" being more likely


            the Punjabi spelling. The problem is that I apparently never made a

            really detailed original post about this.



            So I am backtracking and telling you what happened when this lady

            from Northern India (A brilliant individual I might add.) first told

            me about "Ik onkaar." This was back in December, 2008 as I was in the

            final stages of leaving Eckankar.



            Here is a link to "ik onkaar" on Wikipedia:



            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ek_Onkar



            It states



            "Ik Onkar (Roman transliteration Ik Onkar) means one God and is a

            central tenet of Sikh religious philosophy."



            and



            "Ik Onkar is the first phrase in the Mul Mantra meaning "there is

            only one God".[2] It is found in the Gurmukhi language[3] and is a

            combination of two characters: the numeral Ik (one) and the first

            letter of the word Onkar (God) - which happens to be the first letter

            of the Gurmukhi script with a specially adapted vowel symbol, and is

            derived from Sanskrit."



            My acquaintance from Northern India told me that "ik onkaar/ek ong

            kar" is THE central tenant of Sikhism, not "a central tenet" as this

            Wikipedia article suggests. Another mistake in this Wikipedia article

            is that Gurmukhi is a script, not a language.



            The "Mul Mantra" on Wikipedia explains this fact more acurately.



            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_Mantra


            =0
            D
            Wikipedia states:



            "The Mul Mantar [sic: should be "Mantra"] (Punjab) is the most

            important concept within the Guru Granth Sahib, and is considered the

            basis of Sikh theology; a position that is emphasized by its

            appearance as the first composition written in the Granth. It is said

            that the Mul Mantar was the first composition of Guru Nanak."



            So this quote from Wikipedia more accurately shows that "ik onkaar/ek

            ong kar" is the most important tenant in Sikhism. It also states that

            Mul Mantra is a Punjabi word. Why are the words "Mul Mantra" from the

            Punjabi language? Because 99% of Sikhs:



            1. Live in the state of The Punjab in India.

            2. They speak the Punjabi language.

            3. Most of the men wear turbans.

            4. Almost all of them have the surname "Singh."



            (Just find a photo of the current prime minister of India.)

            (Or look up Kirpal Singh in Wikipedia)

            (Or go to a website for Kirpla Singh's free talks. You will find that

            his talks are in English, Hindi, and Punjabi.)



            I need to get back to my acquaintance from India. When I asked her

            about "ik onkaar/ek ong kar" I did not show her the transliterated

            form ("ik onkaar/ek ong kar" is the transliterated form). I went to

            Wordanywhere.com, typed in the hindi word "ik" and found the "Indian"

            script. I copied the "Indian" script for Ik into a graphic file. I
            =0
            A
            then did the same for the Hindi word "onkaar." I then combined these

            two script "characters" into one graphic file and showed it to her.

            She pronounced it and told me that this means "one God" and that it

            is a central tenant in Hinduism (Please note that she

            said "Hinduism," not Sikhism!). I wrote down "Ek ankar" and she

            corrected me saying "It should be spelled "ik." She added "And the

            second word is spelled "onkaar." And then added "Ek" is more the

            spelling in the Punjabi language. She also went onto explain about

            Sikhism saying that "Ek ong kar" (the Punjabi spelling) means the

            same thing in Sikhism and Hinduism, but is THE central tenant in

            Sikhism. FRom her point of view as a devout Hindu, she described "One

            God" as meaning "the universal, omnipresent, universal God."

            (Eckankar's Sugmad) She explained that both Hindus and Sikhs

            worship "ik onkaar/ek ong kar", but Hindus also worship the Hindu

            deities, Sikhs don't. One of the main differences that occurred when

            Sikhism split off from Hinduism is that they removed the Hindu

            deities from their religion.



            I hope this explains it. I would strongly encourage you to print out

            the "Indian" script of "One God" find a Hindu ir a Sikh, and ask them

            what it means. It think it will be a real eye opener for you.



            How anybody can read this post and not conclude that Ek Ong Kar

            doesn't
            point squarely to Sikhism and Kirpal Singh who is

            automatically a Sikh based solel on his surname, is beyond my

            comprehension.



            Thanks for bringing this up, because I know I posted bits and pieces

            of this, but certainly not a detailed version explaining my complete

            interaction with her.



            Jonathan Johns



            Etznab wrote:

            >

            I was somewhat surprised to look at definitions in the

            Eckankar dictionary, not only for Eckankar, but I found

            definitions for "EK" and "ECK" as well. The two latter words

            seemed to have similar themes in the definition. The word

            "Ecstasies" connected with the definition for "EK" appears

            to suggest the Greek root "ek" which does not appear to

            mean "one".

            >

            Now I am wondering, based on those definitions, whether

            the beginning of the word "Eckankar" has to do with the

            idea of "one".

            >

            Here is what some have claimed was Guru Nanak's remarks:

            >

            "If there is one God, then there is

            only His way to attain Him, not another.

            One must follow that way and reject the

            other. Worship not him who is born only

            to die, but Him who is eternal and is

            contained in the whole universe."

            >

            http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html

            >

            Also on the same link:

            >

            "There are worlds and more worlds below

            them and there are a hundred t
            housand skies

            over them. No one has been able to find the

            limits and boundaries of God. If there be

            any account of God, than alone the mortal

            can write the same; but Gods account does

            not finish and the mortal himself dies while

            still writing. Nanak says that one should

            call Him great, and God Himself knows His

            own self." (Japji)

            >

            http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html

            >

            A beginning of Japji I have seen has:

            >

            Ek onkar satnam karta purakhu which according

            to one report means:

            >

            "The One Reality, the True Name, the

            Eternal and Creative Source of all,

            >

            (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap.12)

            >

            Another source gives:

            >

            "Ek Onkar Satnam Karta Purush Nirbhau

            Virvair Akal Murat, Ajuni Saibhang

            Gurprasad(i)"

            >

            The English rendering would approximate to:

            >

            There is One and only One God who is

            transcendent as well as immanent. True

            and Eternal Name. Creator and Person.

            Without Fear and without Enmity. Timeless

            Form, Unborn, Self-existent. Realized by

            Divine Grace.

            >

            http://www.sikhs.org/art1.htm

            >

            By the time Paul Twitchell mentioned

            "Eckankar" in 1963 the definition from

            his Cliff Hanger article included:

            >

            "....This zany character is called the vanguard

            of a new religion entitled "Eckankar,"=2
            0a

            Hindu word meaning Union with God.

            >

            Here Paul makes it appear as a Hindu

            word meaning Union with God. Later, the

            definition would take on other meanings

            like "co-worker with God", it seems.

            >

            I still imagine that earlier idea of

            "one" should be in the definition some-

            where. I think it might be hinted at in

            the remark:

            >

            "Everyone has there own Eckankar."

            >

            I wonder if this could suggest every-

            one has their own "corporation sole" too?

            In a manner of speaking. That the head of

            "Eckankar" for evey one individual is ultimately

            their own personal experience and not

            necessarily the experiences of others.



            Perhaps I shouldn't have to wonder.

            >

            Etznab
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Etznab and All, Twitchell used The Path of the Masters as his main resource to create his ECKankar. It s true that there are other actual spellings
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 11, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Etznab and All,
              Twitchell used "The Path of the Masters" as his
              main resource to create his ECKankar. It's true
              that there are other actual spellings rather than
              the one that Twitchell misrepresented, altered,
              Westernized, and then copyrighted.

              However, the two spellings given in "The Path
              of the Masters" (Ekankar and Ekonkar) are closest
              to the end result. The word "EKANKAR" is especially
              close, in spelling and meaning, to "ECKANKAR"
              and this fact (amongst many others) gives us
              more proof that Twitchell did indeed use "The
              Path of the Masters" as his blueprint for EcKANKAR.

              Thus, ECKankar has no lineage to invisible and
              unavailable 500 year old Masters like Rebazar Tarzs.
              Almost everything that Twitchell created is linked
              to the Ruhani Satsang and Radhasoami teachings
              (of EKankar) and these teachings are connected to
              and goes back to the teachings of Guru Nanack.

              BTW, let's not forget that "EK" is also used by
              PT and HK. Thus we have ECK and EK, or ECKankar
              and EKankar.

              In Klemp's ECKankar Lexicon, on page 64, "EK"
              is defined as being the 'ek-marg' and "a mystic
              state" and that this "practice was revived in the
              midtwentieth [sic] century by the American savant
              Paul Twitchell..."

              Interesting, that Klemp referred to Twitchell, (the
              971st Mahanta/LEM) as a "savant" and nowhere as
              an EK/ECK Master, or as the Mahanta or LEM!

              Prometheus
              p.s. On page 65 of HK's EK Lexicon are these
              terms: "ekacitta, ekaggata, ekam adwaitam."

              p.p.s. I noticed that on page 15 of HK's EK Lexicon
              that the term "ASURATI LOK" is defined and yet it's
              Not listed on the "Worlds of ECK" (God Worlds Chart)
              on page 232. However, In the "Glossary of Foreign
              Terms" in "The Path of the Masters" I noticed a
              similar term. "ASURA.--A demon. ASURA LOK, the
              region of demons. In the oldest portions of the
              Rig Veda, Asura is used for the supreme spirit.
              Now suras means gods, while asuras means demons,
              enemies of God." Klemp must be one of these asuras!



              prometheus wrote:

              Hello All,
              Yes, Twitchell took Eastern words and Eastern
              Religious Sects (religions) and Westernized them
              to make them his own copyrights and trademarks!

              ***
              Twitchell used the 1939 Copyright of "The Path of
              the Masters" as his guide in order to create Eckankar.

              In the "Glossary of Foreign Terms" (from "The Path
              of the Masters") is this term and definition:

              "Ekonkar.--The one supreme all-inclusive God."
              ***

              On page 283 (Eleventh edition of "The Path of the Masters")
              are these comments:

              "In the literature of the Saints, God is expressed by
              many words, such as Swami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha-
              swami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush,
              Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Roy, Akshar, Parameshwar,
              Akshar Purush, etc."

              [Notice how many of these words can be found in P.T.'s
              EK Dictionary and H.K.'s EK Lexicon and some with only
              slight changes in spelling! Check it out for yourself!]

              Notice that both Swami and Ekankar are words used
              for God, as well as, Anami, Agam, and Sat Purush.

              ***
              On page 283 (Eleventh edition of "The Path of the Masters")
              is this same spelling and definition:

              "Ekankar means the 'One oneness,' the body of oneness."
              ***

              On page 284 are these comments about Ekankar:

              "The whole universe is considered as ONE, the true
              Ekankar. There is perfect oneness in the universe,
              which is also co-existent with God, infinite, unlimited.
              Hence the Soami is Nirankar, i.e. formless. As such
              he is without personality, hence without name."

              Interesting that this "infinite, unlimited" and "formless
              God.. without personality or name" that "he" isn't without
              gender too!

              Anyway, it's plain to see that Twit added the letter
              "c" in order to make "Eckankar" into a copyrighted
              term! This is just one common technique that con
              artists and scammers (who counterfeit the works
              of others) use.

              Thus, Ekankar became Eckankar! Catch-22!

              Prometheus


              jonathan wrote:

              Etznab,

              First of all, please don't take my emotionals in this reply
              personally.

              I just looked through my posts regarding the native Hindi speaker
              from northern India whom I know. I thought that I posted my
              discussion with her regarding "Ik onkaar/Ek Ong Kar. It appears that
              I didn't although in my original post about the "Madison Avenue
              approach to Eckankar" I briefly mention a clarification
              regarding "Ik" being a Hindi word, wheres "Ek/Eck" being more likely
              the Punjabi spelling. The problem is that I apparently never made a
              really detailed original post about this.

              So I am backtracking and telling you what happened when this lady
              from Northern India (A brilliant individual I might add.) first told
              me about "Ik onkaar." This was back in December, 2008 as I was in the
              final stages of leaving Eckankar.

              Here is a link to "ik onkaar" on Wikipedia:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ek_Onkar

              It states

              "Ik Onkar (Roman transliteration Ik Onkar) means one God and is a
              central tenet of Sikh religious philosophy."

              and

              "Ik Onkar is the first phrase in the Mul Mantra meaning "there is
              only one God".[2] It is found in the Gurmukhi language[3] and is a
              combination of two characters: the numeral Ik (one) and the first
              letter of the word Onkar (God) - which happens to be the first letter
              of the Gurmukhi script with a specially adapted vowel symbol, and is
              derived from Sanskrit."

              My acquaintance from Northern India told me that "ik onkaar/ek ong
              kar" is THE central tenant of Sikhism, not "a central tenet" as this
              Wikipedia article suggests. Another mistake in this Wikipedia article
              is that Gurmukhi is a script, not a language.

              The "Mul Mantra" on Wikipedia explains this fact more acurately.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_Mantra

              Wikipedia states:

              "The Mul Mantar [sic: should be "Mantra"] (Punjab) is the most
              important concept within the Guru Granth Sahib, and is considered the
              basis of Sikh theology; a position that is emphasized by its
              appearance as the first composition written in the Granth. It is said
              that the Mul Mantar was the first composition of Guru Nanak."

              So this quote from Wikipedia more accurately shows that "ik onkaar/ek
              ong kar" is the most important tenant in Sikhism. It also states that
              Mul Mantra is a Punjabi word. Why are the words "Mul Mantra" from the
              Punjabi language? Because 99% of Sikhs:

              1. Live in the state of The Punjab in India.
              2. They speak the Punjabi language.
              3. Most of the men wear turbans.
              4. Almost all of them have the surname "Singh."

              (Just find a photo of the current prime minister of India.)
              (Or look up Kirpal Singh in Wikipedia)
              (Or go to a website for Kirpla Singh's free talks. You will find that
              his talks are in English, Hindi, and Punjabi.)

              I need to get back to my acquaintance from India. When I asked her
              about "ik onkaar/ek ong kar" I did not show her the transliterated
              form ("ik onkaar/ek ong kar" is the transliterated form). I went to
              Wordanywhere.com, typed in the hindi word "ik" and found the "Indian"
              script. I copied the "Indian" script for Ik into a graphic file. I
              then did the same for the Hindi word "onkaar." I then combined these
              two script "characters" into one graphic file and showed it to her.
              She pronounced it and told me that this means "one God" and that it
              is a central tenant in Hinduism (Please note that she
              said "Hinduism," not Sikhism!). I wrote down "Ek ankar" and she
              corrected me saying "It should be spelled "ik." She added "And the
              second word is spelled "onkaar." And then added "Ek" is more the
              spelling in the Punjabi language. She also went onto explain about
              Sikhism saying that "Ek ong kar" (the Punjabi spelling) means the
              same thing in Sikhism and Hinduism, but is THE central tenant in
              Sikhism. FRom her point of view as a devout Hindu, she described "One
              God" as meaning "the universal, omnipresent, universal God."
              (Eckankar's Sugmad) She explained that both Hindus and Sikhs
              worship "ik onkaar/ek ong kar", but Hindus also worship the Hindu
              deities, Sikhs don't. One of the main differences that occurred when
              Sikhism split off from Hinduism is that they removed the Hindu
              deities from their religion.

              I hope this explains it. I would strongly encourage you to print out
              the "Indian" script of "One God" find a Hindu ir a Sikh, and ask them
              what it means. It think it will be a real eye opener for you.

              How anybody can read this post and not conclude that Ek Ong Kar
              doesn't point squarely to Sikhism and Kirpal Singh who is
              automatically a Sikh based solel on his surname, is beyond my
              comprehension.

              Thanks for bringing this up, because I know I posted bits and pieces
              of this, but certainly not a detailed version explaining my complete
              interaction with her.

              Jonathan Johns


              Etznab wrote:
              >
              I was somewhat surprised to look at definitions in the
              Eckankar dictionary, not only for Eckankar, but I found
              definitions for "EK" and "ECK" as well. The two latter words
              seemed to have similar themes in the definition. The word
              "Ecstasies" connected with the definition for "EK" appears
              to suggest the Greek root "ek" which does not appear to
              mean "one".
              >
              Now I am wondering, based on those definitions, whether
              the beginning of the word "Eckankar" has to do with the
              idea of "one".
              >
              Here is what some have claimed was Guru Nanak's remarks:
              >
              "If there is one God, then there is
              only His way to attain Him, not another.
              One must follow that way and reject the
              other. Worship not him who is born only
              to die, but Him who is eternal and is
              contained in the whole universe."
              >
              http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html
              >
              Also on the same link:
              >
              "There are worlds and more worlds below
              them and there are a hundred thousand skies
              over them. No one has been able to find the
              limits and boundaries of God. If there be
              any account of God, than alone the mortal
              can write the same; but Gods account does
              not finish and the mortal himself dies while
              still writing. Nanak says that one should
              call Him great, and God Himself knows His
              own self." (Japji)
              >
              http://santhakar.tripod.com/saints/bio-4.html
              >
              A beginning of Japji I have seen has:
              >
              Ek onkar satnam karta purakhu which according
              to one report means:
              >
              "The One Reality, the True Name, the
              Eternal and Creative Source of all,
              >
              (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap.12)
              >
              Another source gives:
              >
              "Ek Onkar Satnam Karta Purush Nirbhau
              Virvair Akal Murat, Ajuni Saibhang
              Gurprasad(i)"
              >
              The English rendering would approximate to:
              >
              There is One and only One God who is
              transcendent as well as immanent. True
              and Eternal Name. Creator and Person.
              Without Fear and without Enmity. Timeless
              Form, Unborn, Self-existent. Realized by
              Divine Grace.
              >
              http://www.sikhs.org/art1.htm
              >
              By the time Paul Twitchell mentioned
              "Eckankar" in 1963 the definition from
              his Cliff Hanger article included:
              >
              "....This zany character is called the vanguard
              of a new religion entitled "Eckankar," a
              Hindu word meaning Union with God.
              >
              Here Paul makes it appear as a Hindu
              word meaning Union with God. Later, the
              definition would take on other meanings
              like "co-worker with God", it seems.
              >
              I still imagine that earlier idea of
              "one" should be in the definition some-
              where. I think it might be hinted at in
              the remark:
              >
              "Everyone has there own Eckankar."
              >
              I wonder if this could suggest every-
              one has their own "corporation sole" too?
              In a manner of speaking. That the head of
              "Eckankar" for evey one individual is ultimately
              their own personal experience and not
              necessarily the experiences of others.

              Perhaps I shouldn't have to wonder.
              >
              Etznab
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