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Re: Promotion of Eckankar Part 2 of 3 Madison Avenue Approach to Eckankar

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  • D.R.D.
    Prometheus, I think the link I sent in speaks a lot of the same language I ve seen here and in other places. One might have to make exceptions for the
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
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      Prometheus,

      I think the link I sent in speaks
      a lot of the same language I've seen
      here and in other places.

      One might have to make exceptions
      for the "Christian" context or terms,
      but the basic message, beyond all the
      semantics, speaks volumes, IMO.

      Etznab

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Etznab and All,
      > Most of us believed that ECKankar, as well as,
      > our former religions were more, in the beginning,
      > than we discovered them to be, later, on down the
      > road. Where does the fault lie? It lies with us, them,
      > and those people (authority figures) and experts we
      > admired and trusted!
      >
      > And, it becomes even more difficult to resist these
      > and more intimidating influences (tactics) when religions
      > control the government (by varying degrees) through
      > laws. Yet, it is still possible to dream.
      >
      > Question: When did Klemp declare ECKankar as
      > a religion publicly? It was when he retitled ECKankar
      > as: The Religion of the Light and Sound of God, but
      > in what year was that done?
      >
      > How many other descriptions of ECKankar were there
      > and what were they?
      >
      > There was: The Ancient Science of Soul Travel (ASOST);
      > The Path of Total Awareness; ..... What else? I forget!
      >
      > I believe that Twitch's real life Master, Kirpal Singh,
      > once gave a talk titled, "The Ancient Science of Soul."
      >
      > I remember that most changes took place around the
      > mid 1980s. I really didn't like that HK called ECKankar
      > a "religion" since this is what we rejected when searching
      > for a spiritual "path." And, I was confused that Klemp
      > used the term "God" instead of "SUGMAD!" I thought,
      > Is Harold embarrassed to use the word SUGMAD since
      > he was now rubbing elbows with other "religious"
      > leaders? It is easier for him to "fit-in" with the other
      > local preachers and church leaders when he's using
      > the (same) term "GOD" versus using the more accurate
      > and honest term of "SUGMAD!"
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      > etznab wrote:
      >
      > I understand that I could have been more
      > specific.
      >
      > It's the subject matter of "God" & "Heaven",
      > etc., that almost all religions appear to speak
      > for. Can they really speak for every individual
      > & the experience of every individual, though?.
      > Does an organized religion have the power to
      > "legislate" and / or define spiritual experience
      > and the personal experiences of others?
      >
      > Put another way, Does "co-worker with God"
      > equate to "co-worker with one particular organ-
      > ization and the head of same?"
      >
      > I guess it depends on whether one believes
      > that "God" is manifest on Earth in the form of
      > one person. The problem I have with this is that
      > several religions claim representation of "God"
      > and not all of them are so omniscient as same,
      > especially when it comes to world history. More
      > than one company can sell apples and oranges,
      > but they aren't necessarily changing the fruit, but
      > the names and the prices may vary. So, does it
      > change the truth about what apples & oranges
      > truly are just because a company gives them so
      > many brand names and tries to market them?
      >
      > My point is that, in truth, I don't believe there is
      > an organization which can change what is "God"
      > or the "spiritual planes", what they truly are simply
      > by claiming to be the one true representation. But
      > this is my personal opinion. That it's an illusion to
      > abandon personal experience to the point where
      > others become the go-between concerning "God'
      > and "universal truths", etc., as if the individual has
      > to "buy (from them) a stairway to Heaven.
      >
      > Not having one's own land to grow apples and
      > oranges might make one dependent on growers
      > who do, but I believe the place where "God" and
      > "Heaven" exist is the property of every individual
      > regardless of what organized religions and their
      > leaders might appear to claim they own.
      >
      > I didn't always have the same beliefs about the
      > Eckankar organization. Eventually though, I just
      > accepted the conclusion it's not so much better
      > from the Christian religion in which I was raised.
      > I've come to accept Eckankar as just one more
      > form of organized religion. Imperfections and all.
      > I believed it was more perfect once than what it
      > appears to be now, until I did some research &
      > learned about the "trappings" it has in common
      > with all the other forms of organized religion.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan and All, Jonathan, you referred to HK s large Smiley Bob photo below. Was that the same infamous Enzyte Bob? I just saw an En Z yte
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
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        Hello Jonathan and All,
        Jonathan, you referred to HK's large "Smiley Bob" photo
        below. Was that the same infamous "Enzyte Bob?" I just
        saw an En"Z"yte commercial and "Smiley Bob" reminded
        me of, and resembled, Klemp! I guess that "Smiley Bob"
        and his mother were in cahoots to scam people. Hey! Isn't
        that sort of the same thing that Paul and Gail, Darwin and
        Gail, and Harold and Joan did/do by scamming ECKists. It
        seems that there's a synchronicity here. And, I'll bet that's
        why they're "really" smiling!

        If this site doesn't come up just GOOGLE: Enzyte Bob

        http://pzrservices.typepad.com/advertisingisgoodforyou/2008/02/enzyte----jail.html

        Prometheus


        Jonathan wrote:

        G. Harold Klemp's large ''Smiley Bob'' photo
        I'd like to point out one more interesting thing that I have noticed
        over my many years as a member of Eckankar. In my early days in
        Eckankar, in the main room in the Eck center, at the front of the
        room, there was a small table or stand. It had some fake or real
        flowers on it, plus a fairly small photo of the Eck master, say an 8
        by 10 inch color photo. Now (2008) and for about the past 7 years
        at least, there is a huge color photo high up on the wall in the main
        room in the Eck center. I would say the photo is about 14 by 17.5
        inches in size.

        For at least five years now, the photo of Klemp has been the "smiley
        Bob" photo of Klemp. He has a broad smile that is ridiculously
        overdone. And the smile lines on both side of his mouth were
        obviously digitally retouched to make his smile even more pronounced.
        His smile really looks absolutely silly. As one Eckist quipped "It
        doesn't even look like him." Also, his hair has been retouched from
        gray to black.

        Obviously this "Smiley Bob" photo was dreamed up by the "Madison-
        Avenue Team" at Eckankar Headquarters for one reason: to bring more
        chelas into Eckankar. The previous photo of Harold shows him with a
        very serious look on his face. But who wants to join a serious
        spiritual organization? The Madison-Avenue Team obviously
        said "Nobody wants to join a dour religion. Make everything happy-
        happy." Plus, they no-doubt said "Who wants to join a religion with
        an old guy in charge? Touch up his hair and make it darker." If you
        look at the photo you can see what a lousy job the artists did. His
        hair looks touched up. They did a little better job on the smile
        lines, but if you look at the photo closely, you can see the digital
        retouching.
      • etznab@aol.com
        You guys are too funny. I mean that in a good way. I saw the photo :) Etznab ... From: prometheus_973 To:
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 7, 2009
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          You guys are too funny. I mean that in a
          good way. I saw the photo :)

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 6:54 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Enzyte "Smiley Bob" Looks Similar
          to Smiley Harry!



          Hello Jonathan and All,

          Jonathan, you referred to HK's large "Smiley Bob" photo

          below. Was that the same infamous "Enzyte Bob?" I just

          saw an En"Z"yte commercial and "Smiley Bob" reminded

          me of, and resembled, Klemp! I guess that "Smiley Bob"

          and his mother were in cahoots to scam people. Hey! Isn't

          that sort of the same thing that Paul and Gail, Darwin and

          Gail, and Harold and Joan did/do by scamming ECKists. It

          seems that there's a synchronicity here. And, I'll bet that's

          why they're "really" smiling!



          If this site doesn't come up just GOOGLE: Enzyte Bob



          http://pzrservices.typepad.com/advertisingisgoodforyou/2008/02/enzyte----jail.html



          Prometheus



          Jonathan wrote:



          G. Harold Klemp's large ''Smiley Bob'' photo

          I'd like to point out one more interesting thing that I have noticed

          over my many years as a member of Eckankar. In my early days in

          Eckankar, in the main room in the Eck center, at the front of the

          room, there was a small table or stand. It had some fake or real

          flowers on it, plus a fairly small photo of the Eck master, say an 8

          by 10 inch color photo. Now (2008) and for about the past 7 years

          at least, there is a huge color photo high up on the wall in the main

          room in the Eck center. I would say the photo is about 14 by 17.5

          inches in size.



          For at least five years now, the photo of Klemp has been the "smiley

          Bob" photo of Klemp. He has a broad smile that is ridiculously

          overdone. And the smile lines on both side of his mouth were

          obviously digitally retouched to make his smile even more pronounced.

          His smile really looks absolutely silly. As one Eckist quipped "It

          doesn't even look like him." Also, his hair has been retouched from

          gray to black.



          Obviously this "Smiley Bob" photo was dreamed up by the "Madison-

          Avenue Team" at Eckankar Headquarters for one reason: to bring more

          chelas into Eckankar. The previous photo of Harold shows him with a

          very serious look on his face. But who wants to join a serious

          spiritual organization? The Madison-Avenue Team obviously

          said "Nobody wants to join a dour religion. Make everything happy-

          happy." Plus, they no-doubt said "Who wants to join a religion with

          an old guy in charge? Touch up his hair and make it darker." If you

          look at the photo you can see what a lousy job the artists did. His

          hair looks touched up. They did a little better job on the smile

          lines, but if you look at the photo closely, you can see the digital

          retouching.
        • jonathanjohns96
          Prometheus and Etznab, Yes, that s where the term Smiley Bob came from. I m glad you two appreciate the humor. But like most good comedians I think I may
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 8, 2009
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            Prometheus and Etznab,
            Yes, that's where the term "Smiley Bob" came from. I'm glad you two
            appreciate the humor. But like most good comedians I think I may
            have "stolen my material." I think I saw the term over on the
            EckankarTruth message board first. But it is absoulutely true that I
            had already noticed the similarity between Klemp's photo and the guy
            in the Enzyte commercial.
            Jonathan

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > You guys are too funny. I mean that in a
            > good way. I saw the photo :)
            >
            > Etznab
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 6:54 pm
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Enzyte "Smiley Bob" Looks
            Similar
            > to Smiley Harry!
            >
            >
            >
            > Hello Jonathan and All,
            >
            > Jonathan, you referred to HK's large "Smiley Bob" photo
            >
            > below. Was that the same infamous "Enzyte Bob?" I just
            >
            > saw an En"Z"yte commercial and "Smiley Bob" reminded
            >
            > me of, and resembled, Klemp! I guess that "Smiley Bob"
            >
            > and his mother were in cahoots to scam people. Hey! Isn't
            >
            > that sort of the same thing that Paul and Gail, Darwin and
            >
            > Gail, and Harold and Joan did/do by scamming ECKists. It
            >
            > seems that there's a synchronicity here. And, I'll bet that's
            >
            > why they're "really" smiling!
            >
            >
            >
            > If this site doesn't come up just GOOGLE: Enzyte Bob
            >
            >
            >
            >
            http://pzrservices.typepad.com/advertisingisgoodforyou/2008/02/enzyte-
            ---jail.html
            >
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > Jonathan wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > G. Harold Klemp's large ''Smiley Bob'' photo
            >
            > I'd like to point out one more interesting thing that I have noticed
            >
            > over my many years as a member of Eckankar. In my early days in
            >
            > Eckankar, in the main room in the Eck center, at the front of the
            >
            > room, there was a small table or stand. It had some fake or real
            >
            > flowers on it, plus a fairly small photo of the Eck master, say an 8
            >
            > by 10 inch color photo. Now (2008) and for about the past 7 years
            >
            > at least, there is a huge color photo high up on the wall in the
            main
            >
            > room in the Eck center. I would say the photo is about 14 by 17.5
            >
            > inches in size.
            >
            >
            >
            > For at least five years now, the photo of Klemp has been the "smiley
            >
            > Bob" photo of Klemp. He has a broad smile that is ridiculously
            >
            > overdone. And the smile lines on both side of his mouth were
            >
            > obviously digitally retouched to make his smile even more
            pronounced.
            >
            > His smile really looks absolutely silly. As one Eckist quipped "It
            >
            > doesn't even look like him." Also, his hair has been retouched from
            >
            > gray to black.
            >
            >
            >
            > Obviously this "Smiley Bob" photo was dreamed up by the "Madison-
            >
            > Avenue Team" at Eckankar Headquarters for one reason: to bring more
            >
            > chelas into Eckankar. The previous photo of Harold shows him with a
            >
            > very serious look on his face. But who wants to join a serious
            >
            > spiritual organization? The Madison-Avenue Team obviously
            >
            > said "Nobody wants to join a dour religion. Make everything happy-
            >
            > happy." Plus, they no-doubt said "Who wants to join a religion with
            >
            > an old guy in charge? Touch up his hair and make it darker." If you
            >
            > look at the photo you can see what a lousy job the artists did. His
            >
            > hair looks touched up. They did a little better job on the smile
            >
            > lines, but if you look at the photo closely, you can see the digital
            >
            > retouching.
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Etznab, Jonathan, and All, I really didn t see the other posts on another site about Smiling Bob. Jonathan s comments about Klemp s smiling photos,
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 8, 2009
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              Hello Etznab, Jonathan, and All,
              I really didn't see the other posts on
              another site about "Smiling Bob."

              Jonathan's comments about Klemp's
              smiling photos, "smiley Bob" and the
              fact that this was still in my thoughts
              when an Enzyte commercial came on
              TV is what "connected the dots" and
              "turned on the light bulb" for me.

              I still wasn't certain if the reference
              to "Smiley Bob" and Klemp had anything
              to do with that En"Z"yte commercial.

              http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Enzyte+Bob&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

              http://pzrservices.typepad.com/advertisingisgoodforyou/2008/02/enzyte----jail.ht\
              ml

              To see another likeness of HK just GOOGLE: Enzyte Bob

              Prometheus


              etznab wrote:

              You guys are too funny. I mean that in a
              good way. I saw the photo : )

              Etznab


              Prometheus wrote:

              Hello Jonathan and All,

              Jonathan, you referred to HK's large "Smiley Bob" photo

              below. Was that the same infamous "Enzyte Bob?" I just

              saw an En"Z"yte commercial and "Smiley Bob" reminded

              me of, and resembled, Klemp! I guess that "Smiley Bob"

              and his mother were in cahoots to scam people. Hey! Isn't

              that sort of the same thing that Paul and Gail, Darwin and

              Gail, and Harold and Joan did/do by scamming ECKists. It

              seems that there's a synchronicity here. And, I'll bet that's

              why they're "really" smiling!



              If this site doesn't come up just GOOGLE: Enzyte Bob



              http://pzrservices.typepad.com/advertisingisgoodforyou/2008/02/enzyte----jail.ht\
              ml

              Prometheus



              Jonathan wrote:

              G. Harold Klemp's large ''Smiley Bob'' photo

              I'd like to point out one more interesting thing that I have noticed

              over my many years as a member of Eckankar. In my early days in

              Eckankar, in the main room in the Eck center, at the front of the

              room, there was a small table or stand. It had some fake or real

              flowers on it, plus a fairly small photo of the Eck master, say an 8

              by 10 inch color photo. Now (2008) and for about the past 7 years

              at least, there is a huge color photo high up on the wall in the main

              room in the Eck center. I would say the photo is about 14 by 17.5

              inches in size.



              For at least five years now, the photo of Klemp has been the "smiley

              Bob" photo of Klemp. He has a broad smile that is ridiculously

              overdone. And the smile lines on both side of his mouth were

              obviously digitally retouched to make his smile even more pronounced.

              His smile really looks absolutely silly. As one Eckist quipped "It

              doesn't even look like him." Also, his hair has been retouched from

              gray to black.



              Obviously this "Smiley Bob" photo was dreamed up by the "Madison-

              Avenue Team" at Eckankar Headquarters for one reason: to bring more

              chelas into Eckankar. The previous photo of Harold shows him with a

              very serious look on his face. But who wants to join a serious

              spiritual organization? The Madison-Avenue Team obviously

              said "Nobody wants to join a dour religion. Make everything happy-

              happy." Plus, they no-doubt said "Who wants to join a religion with

              an old guy in charge? Touch up his hair and make it darker." If you

              look at the photo you can see what a lousy job the artists did. His

              hair looks touched up. They did a little better job on the smile

              lines, but if you look at the photo closely, you can see the digital

              retouching.
            • jonathanjohns96
              Prometheus, In my original post in this thread, yes, I was saying that Harold Klemp s photo with the big, exaggerated, plastic smile reminded me of Smiling
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 9, 2009
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                Prometheus,

                In my original post in this thread, yes, I was saying that Harold
                Klemp's photo with the big, exaggerated, plastic smile reminded me
                of "Smiling Bob" in the Enzyte commercials. I was making a direct
                comparison of the two.

                I searched EckankarTruth. I did find a post by Sharon on December 21,
                2008:

                ==================
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/message/7095
                "Hmmmm....you know, in the past I've compared ekult to those ads for
                products claiming you can increase your bust/penis several inches
                overnight. Now, those "Smiling Bob" commercials are hilarious, and
                claim they have millions of satisfied customers - but where's the
                *real* proof? Any scientific studies?" [Sharon]
                ==================

                Although she mentions "Smiling Bob," she doesn't specifically compare
                Harold's photo to Smiling Bob in the Enzyte commercial.

                Maybe I did make that part up. Oh well, I guess I may go down in
                history for something after all. I'm not sure why I thought I saw it
                somewhere else.

                btw, it appears that people refer to the guy in the Enzyte commercial
                as "Smiling Bob," not my version "Smiley Bob." Even Wikipedia
                mentions "Similin' Bob."

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzyte
                "Enzyte is widely advertised on US television as "the once daily
                tablet for natural male enhancement". The commercials feature a
                character known as "Smilin' Bob", who always wears a smile that is
                implied to be caused by the enhancing effects of Enzyte; these
                advertisements feature double entendres."

                Jonathan


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab, Jonathan, and All,
                > I really didn't see the other posts on
                > another site about "Smiling Bob."
                >
                > Jonathan's comments about Klemp's
                > smiling photos, "smiley Bob" and the
                > fact that this was still in my thoughts
                > when an Enzyte commercial came on
                > TV is what "connected the dots" and
                > "turned on the light bulb" for me.
                >
                > I still wasn't certain if the reference
                > to "Smiley Bob" and Klemp had anything
                > to do with that En"Z"yte commercial.
                >
                > http://www.google.com/search?
                hl=en&q=Enzyte+Bob&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
                >
                >
                http://pzrservices.typepad.com/advertisingisgoodforyou/2008/02/enzyte-
                ---jail.ht\
                > ml
                >
                > To see another likeness of HK just GOOGLE: Enzyte Bob
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                > You guys are too funny. I mean that in a
                > good way. I saw the photo : )
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                >
                > Prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Jonathan and All,
                >
                > Jonathan, you referred to HK's large "Smiley Bob" photo
                >
                > below. Was that the same infamous "Enzyte Bob?" I just
                >
                > saw an En"Z"yte commercial and "Smiley Bob" reminded
                >
                > me of, and resembled, Klemp! I guess that "Smiley Bob"
                >
                > and his mother were in cahoots to scam people. Hey! Isn't
                >
                > that sort of the same thing that Paul and Gail, Darwin and
                >
                > Gail, and Harold and Joan did/do by scamming ECKists. It
                >
                > seems that there's a synchronicity here. And, I'll bet that's
                >
                > why they're "really" smiling!
                >
                >
                >
                > If this site doesn't come up just GOOGLE: Enzyte Bob
                >
                >
                >
                >
                http://pzrservices.typepad.com/advertisingisgoodforyou/2008/02/enzyte-
                ---jail.ht\
                > ml
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                >
                > Jonathan wrote:
                >
                > G. Harold Klemp's large ''Smiley Bob'' photo
                >
                > I'd like to point out one more interesting thing that I have noticed
                >
                > over my many years as a member of Eckankar. In my early days in
                >
                > Eckankar, in the main room in the Eck center, at the front of the
                >
                > room, there was a small table or stand. It had some fake or real
                >
                > flowers on it, plus a fairly small photo of the Eck master, say an 8
                >
                > by 10 inch color photo. Now (2008) and for about the past 7 years
                >
                > at least, there is a huge color photo high up on the wall in the
                main
                >
                > room in the Eck center. I would say the photo is about 14 by 17.5
                >
                > inches in size.
                >
                >
                >
                > For at least five years now, the photo of Klemp has been the "smiley
                >
                > Bob" photo of Klemp. He has a broad smile that is ridiculously
                >
                > overdone. And the smile lines on both side of his mouth were
                >
                > obviously digitally retouched to make his smile even more
                pronounced.
                >
                > His smile really looks absolutely silly. As one Eckist quipped "It
                >
                > doesn't even look like him." Also, his hair has been retouched from
                >
                > gray to black.
                >
                >
                >
                > Obviously this "Smiley Bob" photo was dreamed up by the "Madison-
                >
                > Avenue Team" at Eckankar Headquarters for one reason: to bring more
                >
                > chelas into Eckankar. The previous photo of Harold shows him with a
                >
                > very serious look on his face. But who wants to join a serious
                >
                > spiritual organization? The Madison-Avenue Team obviously
                >
                > said "Nobody wants to join a dour religion. Make everything happy-
                >
                > happy." Plus, they no-doubt said "Who wants to join a religion with
                >
                > an old guy in charge? Touch up his hair and make it darker." If you
                >
                > look at the photo you can see what a lousy job the artists did. His
                >
                > hair looks touched up. They did a little better job on the smile
                >
                > lines, but if you look at the photo closely, you can see the digital
                >
                > retouching.
                >
              • jonathanjohns96
                All, I m resurrecting a thread that I started about a month ago on February 5, 2009. It was my first post explaining what I call The Madison Avenue Approach
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 3, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  All,

                  I'm resurrecting a thread that I started about a month ago on February 5, 2009. It was my first post explaining what I call "The Madison Avenue Approach to Eckankar." By this I mean the use of slick marketing to promote Eckankar. In that original post I detailed eight subcategories which I labeled A through H. About two weeks ago I thought up one more example of marketing which would be subcategory I.

                  I. Remember the time Harold Klemp told a story about the little girl at the playground who taught her friend the HU? This was a long time ago, perhaps more than ten years ago. At any rate, the little girl, I believe she was six years old, taught her little friend the HU. And I believe Klemp indicated that there was some sort of upliftment or beneficial effect on the other child.

                  Klemp's use of this story kept bothering me and about two weeks ago I finally figured out what was going on. In my opinion, the HU is actually a very powerful spiritual technique. It is not child's play. I I would go so far as to say that it messes a lot of people up by throwing them off balance especially if they overdo it. It is very powerful at opening the upper chakras and this can cause problems for some people. But perhaps even more importantly, I think a lot of Westerners have an adversion to it because it seems like something from an Eastern religion.

                  What's Eckankar to do? Why tell a story about a six year old girl teaching the HU to her little friend. What is actually happeneing with this story is this. Children respresent innocence. And so if the HU is so innocent that a little girl can teach it to one of her friends, how can anyone dare view the HU as potentially dangerous or as something to be at all suspicious about? So Klemp's use of this story is merely a clever marketing ploy. And it uses innocent children to accomplish this goal!

                  Let me give you another example. Let's say a big drug company is selling a dangerous drug. How could they fool their target audience by portraying this drug as harmless? Why make a television commercial, talk about the drug and its supposed benefits, but have the video showing a little girl dancing along in a field picking flowers or flying a kite. Sure, the video has nothing to with the drug, but the true purpose of the video is quite clear. This is actually "Advertising 101." It's something that even someone with the most basic knowledge of advertising experience could think up.

                  Those of you who have followed my posts know that after this original "Madison Avenue" post I related a story in Klemp's new (2008) book "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer" about a girl named Heidi. She used the HU to help heal a little boy. So this is another example of this. If little children are doing it, what can be wrong with it? What can be dangerous about it?

                  It's all just another shameless example of how Eckankar uses marketing to fool people. And trust me, a lot of people ARE fooled because the average person does not possess the experience in life to see through these things. And how can a corporation like Eckankar do anything more shameful than this? To use innocent children to promote their religion?

                  Jonathan
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Jonathan and All, Klemp changes the rules as he sees fit. At one time these charged words like HU and ECK were kept from the general public because
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 22, 2010
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                    Hello Jonathan and All,
                    Klemp changes the rules as he sees fit.
                    At one time these "charged words" like
                    HU and ECK were kept from the general
                    public because they could harm people
                    by creating an imbalance that would
                    have negative effects upon them.

                    Thus, only "initiated" members of
                    Eckankar were instructed on how to
                    use these "charged words," and were
                    "protected" from harm by the master.
                    However, now that I think of it a
                    "Charge" is either negative or positive
                    in order to have an effect. Therefore,
                    using a "charged word" seems like it
                    could be used for either Black or White
                    Magic. This is why they were kept
                    hidden from the general public.

                    It was kind of like "sharing" one's
                    inner spiritual experiences with the
                    master. Eckists were told Not to Share
                    these because some Eckists didn't
                    have inner experiences and this sharing
                    could make them jealous or feel ashamed
                    that they weren't making progress.

                    And, some people would pick apart
                    the experience or reinterpret it making
                    the one who had it feel more confused
                    or that their interpretation of it was
                    inaccurate or that the dream of the
                    Astral Plane. It was like "casting
                    your pearls before swine." Yet, Klemp
                    changed this policy as well! And, he
                    did this as a promotion method.

                    I wonder how many people (non-Eckists)
                    are instructed Not to "direct" the HU,
                    and what that means. Now, Klemp is
                    saying that to HU is to pray. I'm not
                    so sure that Eckankar will be received
                    as well, in libraries especially, to give
                    intros. First, Klemp redefines Eckankar
                    as a Religion of God and now the HU
                    becomes a Prayer! True, there's a lot
                    of other religious crap like Hierarchies
                    and Worship Services etc., but it really
                    seems to me that Klemp is digressing
                    back to his Lutheran roots, and he's
                    taking others with him!

                    One more thing. I'm thinking that
                    when ECKists are being "neutral" and
                    are doing that Sunday Morning Seminar
                    HU Chant/Song that Klemp is backstage
                    "directing" it for his own purposes!

                    Prometheus

                    jonathan wrote:
                    All,

                    I'm resurrecting a thread that I started about a month ago on February 5, 2009.
                    It was my first post explaining what I call "The Madison Avenue Approach to
                    Eckankar." By this I mean the use of slick marketing to promote Eckankar. In
                    that original post I detailed eight subcategories which I labeled A through H.
                    About two weeks ago I thought up one more example of marketing which would be
                    subcategory I.

                    I. Remember the time Harold Klemp told a story about the little girl at the
                    playground who taught her friend the HU? This was a long time ago, perhaps more
                    than ten years ago. At any rate, the little girl, I believe she was six years
                    old, taught her little friend the HU. And I believe Klemp indicated that there
                    was some sort of upliftment or beneficial effect on the other child.

                    Klemp's use of this story kept bothering me and about two weeks ago I finally
                    figured out what was going on. In my opinion, the HU is actually a very powerful
                    spiritual technique. It is not child's play. I I would go so far as to say that
                    it messes a lot of people up by throwing them off balance especially if they
                    overdo it. It is very powerful at opening the upper chakras and this can cause
                    problems for some people. But perhaps even more importantly, I think a lot of
                    Westerners have an adversion to it because it seems like something from an
                    Eastern religion.

                    What's Eckankar to do? Why tell a story about a six year old girl teaching the
                    HU to her little friend. What is actually happeneing with this story is this.
                    Children respresent innocence. And so if the HU is so innocent that a little
                    girl can teach it to one of her friends, how can anyone dare view the HU as
                    potentially dangerous or as something to be at all suspicious about? So Klemp's
                    use of this story is merely a clever marketing ploy. And it uses innocent
                    children to accomplish this goal!

                    Let me give you another example. Let's say a big drug company is selling a
                    dangerous drug. How could they fool their target audience by portraying this
                    drug as harmless? Why make a television commercial, talk about the drug and its
                    supposed benefits, but have the video showing a little girl dancing along in a
                    field picking flowers or flying a kite. Sure, the video has nothing to with the
                    drug, but the true purpose of the video is quite clear. This is actually
                    "Advertising 101." It's something that even someone with the most basic
                    knowledge of advertising experience could think up.

                    Those of you who have followed my posts know that after this original "Madison
                    Avenue" post I related a story in Klemp's new (2008) book "HU, The Most
                    Beautiful Prayer" about a girl named Heidi. She used the HU to help heal a
                    little boy. So this is another example of this. If little children are doing it,
                    what can be wrong with it? What can be dangerous about it?

                    It's all just another shameless example of how Eckankar uses marketing to fool
                    people. And trust me, a lot of people ARE fooled because the average person does
                    not possess the experience in life to see through these things. And how can a
                    corporation like Eckankar do anything more shameful than this? To use innocent
                    children to promote their religion?

                    Jonathan
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