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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Promotion of Eckankar - Part 3 of 3 - Christianization of Eckankar

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Does anyone find it ironic that section of IN MY SOUL I AM FREE on page 165? I do, and here is why. That book came out around 1968, before the Mahanta term
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 5, 2009
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      Does anyone find it ironic that section of
      IN MY SOUL I AM FREE on page 165? I
      do, and here is why.

      That book came out around 1968, before
      the "Mahanta" term in 1969 & the non-profit
      religious status of Eckankar in 1970. In fact,
      I don't even know if "IMSIAF" even included
      the "Mahanta" term. At least, it wasn't in the
      Index section and it wasn't on the back cover
      of the book.

      I could be wrong about this, but it seems
      the "Mahanta" term used by Eckankar came
      into vogue around 1969, about a year before
      the non-profit status became official in 1970.
      If I recall, this new staus was urged by Paul's
      (or Eckankar's) lawyers for tax purposes and
      for other reasons.

      In Brad Steiger's book the word "Sugmad"
      & "God" appears, but after 1970 it looks like
      the "Mahanta" becomes a person and leader
      of Eckankar! So, it looks most ironic to me in
      view of what Paul quoted in Steiger's book in
      1968.

      With non-profit and religious status of the
      organization it looks like "God" or "Sugmad"
      became personalized, as if it became head
      of the Eckankar organization. I said "it looks
      like" that. However, I'm not convinced that is
      actually true. That "God" is running the show.

      Etznab

      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 1:09 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Promotion of Eckankar - Part
      3 of 3 - Christianization of Eckankar



      Hello Etznab and All,

      Both Twitch and Klemp use the same Bait

      and Switch methods. They will say one thing

      on one hand and something else, or take it

      back, in the next paragraph. This gives people

      in general, and mostly ECKists, the illusion that

      they are important and are FREE SOULS who

      are ONE with the ECK, and that they are their

      own Master (in training of course)! But, they

      NEED the Mahanta to make it all come together

      and make it work. It's a co-dependent relationship!



      But, it's all PR! Let's face the facts, Twitchell

      was one of the biggest liars of his time! ECKists

      (and all religionists) tend to "hang-on" to the

      words and Dogma that make them feel good

      about themselves and their religion. These

      words, concepts, and imaginings give them

      hope that they, too, will reach those heights.

      In Truth, ECKists don't need a Middleman Mahanta

      to give them anything!



      However, even Twitch would sometimes mix

      some truth with fiction to make the lie sound

      better. The TRUTH is that we are all SOUL and

      are ONE with SPIRIT and ALL THAT IS. This is

      what we can take from ECKankar and all religions

      while expanding Our Knowledge and Wisdom

      on Our own. Our purer insights, experiences,

      and awareness can become expanded by using

      the tools that work for us now.



      Prometheus



      etznab wrote:



      "B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being"



      Read page 165 in: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by

      Brad Steiger. Especially the part where Paul says:

      ".... This idea is not completely true, for each of us

      can become the channel of Holy Spirit which can

      flow with supreme abundance to all. ...."



      Seriously, if you ever come across this book, go

      look at what it said. I was quite surprised to come

      across that section because it seemed to run very

      contrary to what Eckankar dogma has in some re-

      spects appeared to be.



      The brief quote I gave is just the tip of a very huge

      "iceberg". My opinion, at least. And that page has a

      lot more to say about the subject. This "iceberg" - &

      what it appears to say - just might be stronger than

      any organized religion will ever be able to stand. My

      guess is that this is what will ultimately "wreck" the

      "solidness" of any and all organized religions. Both

      now, or in the future.



      Etznab
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan and All, I always thought it was odd that HU Chants were Not supposed to be synchronized with other HU Chants when they were Non-directed.
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 9, 2009
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        Hello Jonathan and All,
        I always thought it was odd that HU Chants were
        Not supposed to be synchronized with other HU
        Chants when they were Non-directed.

        Actually, I wonder how many ECK voices on those
        HU Chant recordings are actually Directing the ECK
        to do something for them, or for someone else...
        like "Heidi" did!

        Plus, what makes it okay for Heidi to violate the ECK
        Spiritual LAW of NON-INTERFERENCE? And, don't Heidi's
        actions fall under the "Do-Gooder" syndrome that
        Klemp has warned against in past talks? But now it's
        okay!

        I never could figure out why local ECKists weren't
        permitted to have HU Chants that corresponded to the
        Sunday Morning HU Chants at the Major EK Seminars.

        In TM (Transcendental Meditation) the purpose of
        synchronizing meditations, worldwide, was seen as
        a means of raising World consciousness. This meditative/
        contemplative method, (technique) is, also, seen as
        a means of Unification (Unity Consciousness) with Spirit.

        Thus, it benefits the individual Soul via the raising of
        their own consciousness and has the by-product, or
        effect, of raising the consciousness of the whole World
        as well! This raising of consciousness could lead to
        harmony and world peace. ECKists accept the Negative
        Kali-Yuga (time is running out) and yet Klemp only
        attempts to raise world consciousness one person
        (Soul) at a time! What kind of a "Master" is that!

        Do EKists do their heroic acts on a one-on-one
        Christian like basis as "Heidi" does in order to feel
        good? Probably! Look at the "stories" they get to
        tell! Guess what? Most of these "stories" are either
        embellished or are pure fiction!

        Again, with TM, a large gathering of people chanting
        Mantras and Sutras is, also, done without directing
        this Force... just like with the HU Chants.

        Of course, most TMers do their chants privately (like
        ECKists), but it can also be timed with the meditations
        of large gatherings... just like the 8:00 a.m. CST Sunday
        Morning HU Chants could. As a matter of fact... aren't
        ECKists somewhat encouraged to synchronize and do
        their own private HU Chant at this time? I think so!

        Now I'm thinking that Klemp doesn't want Group HU
        Chants "synchronized" because he doesn't want to share
        any "power" with EK Chelas. By synchronizing HU Chants,
        to raise World Consciousness (as a natural by-product
        of this Non-Directed prayer), could mean that ECKists
        would look to and experience the Oneness of the ECK
        (SPIRIT). Why then, would they need a Physical Plane LEM?
        They wouldn't! Klemp and Company just want job security!

        Prometheus


        Jonathan wrote:
        Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for
        it to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
        This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the
        HU chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.



        jonathan wrote:

        Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has
        taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order
        to lure in new members. Basically, they are removing anything from
        the introductory literature and talks that could possibly offend
        anyone. This plan includes what I call the "Christianization of
        Eckankar." What I mean by this is that Eckankar is redoing itself so
        that on the surface of things it more closely resembles Christianity.
        Of course, after the new member has been in

        Eckankar's current plan:

        1. We're going to make Eckankar look like Christianity.

        2. We're going to get them to join Eckankar because it "looks
        familiar" to them.

        3. Then we'll slowly brainwash them for several years before we
        teach them the real thing:

        A. Eckankar is patterned after the religions
        Hinduism, Sikhism, and Sant Mat.

        B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being
        (whoever the Living Eck master happens to be at the time).

        A. Eckankar introduces the ''Worship Service''

        A lot of current members of Eckankar who joined rather recently would
        probably be surprised to know that for about the first twenty years
        of Eckankar there was no "Worship Service." In fact, this is
        something Eckankar made up as it went along. Back when this first
        happened I had no inkling as to why Eckankar had done this. Back in
        those days, I can remember asking people "Why does Eckankar have
        a Worship Service anyway? Eckists don't worship anything." I naively
        assumed that people would actually give me an answer. But they
        didn't, and I just "blew it off."

        Let's look at the facts. Eckists don't worship Sugmad (Eckankar's
        word for God). We were taught that God is way beyond any need for
        anyone to worship it. And on the surface of things, we were taught
        that we shouldn't worship the Eck master. So I repeat my original
        question "Why is there a worship service in Eckankar?" It took me
        a long time to figure it out, and I think it must have bee during the
        last month of my time in Eckankar that I finally figured it out.
        Eckankar is trying to appear like Christianity. And for the shameful
        reason of appearing like Christianity so they can lure people in.

        In another post I mentioned that a few months before I left Eckankar
        somebody finally informed me that the Worship Service is for new
        people. That is simply more evidence that what I am saying about the
        Worship Service is true.

        B. HU, the most beautiful prayer

        "HU, the most beautiful prayer" is a new booklet that Harold Klemp
        wrote and was first distributed to the members of Eckankar in late
        November of 2008. Frankly, the lack of spiritual principles in this
        booklet is one of the most despicable things I have ever witnessed in
        Eckankar. I read part of this book. This is a brief summary of some
        of what Klemp said:

        "The right way to pray is to sing a song of love to God."

        "The wrong way to pray is to tell God what to do."

        He completely ignores the third choice which is to ask God for
        spiritual wisdom or guidance.

        Or the fourth choice which is to ask God to fix things or give you
        things.

        He tells the story of a girl named "Heidi" who learns that her
        relative in another place, a little boy, is in a coma. What she then
        did was to go on the inner and ask the little boy and his parents
        to join her in a HU on the inner planes. She then sang the HU while
        remaining neutral. The next day, she learned that the little boy came
        out of the coma. Supposedly, he asked the nurse "Are you Heidi?"

        When I first read this story I didn't immediately see much of a
        problem with it. But later I started to have second thoughts about
        this whole procedure that Heidi did. I disagree with it for the
        reason that it seems to be a very subtle way to intentionally control
        the outcome of a situation. That's not prayer, that's black magic.
        And the fact that little children in Eckankar are being taught this
        technique is disturbing indeed.

        The problem has mostly to do with one question: "Did she in fact
        remain neutral or did she want a particular outcome to take place?"
        My contention is that she wanted a particular outcome to take place.
        That means that she was, in fact, influencing the outcome of a
        situation regarding someone else without their prior permission.
        That is expressly forbidden in Eckankar and is actively called black
        magic by Eckankar.

        But it seems that Eckankar has found a way around this. And for
        two reasons:

        1. So Eckankar can call the HU a prayer and therefore make Eckankar
        more acceptable to Christians, and

        2. So Eckankar can teach its chelas a way to influence others, all
        the while convincing them that they are not doing that.

        In the case of Heidi, a truly spiritual person would have simply
        said "Thine will be done" and then given it to Holy Spirit. She
        would have been much better off simply giving it to Spirit rather
        than wandering into this situation with her HU chant.

        This new procedure that Harold Klemp has invented is using the
        HU to achieve a desired outcome while at the same time you are
        pretending that you are not doing that. Despite the individuals
        best intentions, I feel that most people will have a desired outcome
        even if it is only at the subconscious level. But please remember
        that the subconscious mind energy is more powerful and the
        conscious mind energy so we are really playing with fire here.

        Do you really think that I believe that she didn't want a particular
        outcome? Clearly, she wanted the boy to wake up, or she wouldn't
        have even become involved in the process of using the HU in this
        new manner in the first place. The fact that she got involved in this
        procedure was because she wanted the boy to wake up.

        And if you want more proof, would Harold Klemp have told the story
        about Heidi if the boy had died? The more than obvious answer
        is "No."

        So there is an unspoken message here for all members of Eckankar.
        You are now allowed to use the HU to influence others. What's next?
        Expect the following to come to an Eckankar Center near you. Ten
        Eckists arrive and they all are concerned about say a war in a
        particular country. People are being killed; it's terrible. So they
        decide to, as a group, chant/sing the HU. But beforehand, they
        all invite all of the participants in the war to sing the HU with them
        on the inner. Anybody but me see a problem with this?

        Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for
        it to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
        This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the
        HU chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.

        Medical doctors don't treat their own family members due to concerns
        that they will be biased when making decisions. In other words, the
        fact that they are treating someone that they care deeply about could
        adversely affect the objectivity of their decisions. But in the case
        of Eckankar and "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer," they are going to
        trust little kids to be able to overcome that situation.

        Eckankar's new policy seems to be "Acquiring new members
        no matter what the cost to the original principals of Eckankar."

        And once again, Eckankar is borrowing a concept from Indian
        religions/culture. "Bhajan (BUDGE-in) is a Sanskrit word for
        a Hindu devotional song. The purpose of the song is to praise
        God (Ik onkaar), or honor God (Ik onkaar). On Jan 7, 2009, I spoke
        with a Hindu from North India. I specifically asked her "Is it considered
        to be a prayer too?" She said "Yes." But after talking to her, it was
        clear to me that the Hindu singing the bhajan or listening to the
        bhajan focuses on the words in the song; they are not having
        separate thoughts of their own. Basically, the words are saying
        things like "God, you are great."

        Prometheus, I know that you commented on this "HU, The Most
        Beautiful Prayer," but I wrote 95% of what I have here back at the
        very beginning of December, 2008, about two weeks before I left
        Eckankar. I don't think that you read any of the book, so I think you
        might be very interested in this story about Heidi.
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Jonathan and All, It s true, I haven t read Klemp s HU, the Most Beautiful Prayer. I m not sure if I remember this post either. Allow me to comment on
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 22, 2010
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          Hello Jonathan and All,
          It's true, I haven't read Klemp's "HU,
          the Most Beautiful Prayer." I'm not
          sure if I remember this post either.
          Allow me to comment on it below.

          jonathan wrote [J]:

          Since the early days of Eckankar, and mostly since Harold Klemp has
          taken over, it has been busy reforming and redefining itself in order
          to lure in new members. Basically, they are removing anything from
          the introductory literature and talks that could possibly offend
          anyone. This plan includes what I call the "Christianization of
          Eckankar." What I mean by this is that Eckankar is redoing itself so
          that on the surface of things it more closely resembles Christianity.
          Of course, after the new member has been in.



          [P]- I agree, IMO, Klemp made his first move to
          recreate Eckankar to look more like Christianity
          when he created the RESA Hierarchy. It's also
          true that HK used the "common language" pretense
          to attract disillusioned Christians versus those
          with Metaphysical and Eastern backgrounds.



          [J] -Eckankar's current plan:

          1. We're going to make Eckankar look like Christianity.
          2. We're going to get them to join Eckankar because it "looks
          familiar" to them.
          3. Then we'll slowly brainwash them for several years before we teach
          them the real thing:
          A. Eckankar is patterned after the religions
          Hinduism, Sikhism, and Sant Mat.
          B. Eckankar is based on worship of a human being
          (whoever the Living Eck master happens to be at the time).

          A. Eckankar introduces the ''Worship Service''
          A lot of current members of Eckankar who joined rather recently would
          probably be surprised to know that for about the first twenty years
          of Eckankar there was no "Worship Service." In fact, this is
          something Eckankar made up as it went along. Back when this first
          happened I had no inkling as to why Eckankar had done this. Back in
          those days, I can remember asking people "Whay does Eckankar have a
          Worship Service anyway? Eckists don't worship anything." I naively
          assumed that people would actually give me an answer. But they
          didn't, and I just "blew it off."

          Let's look at the facts. Eckists don't worship Sugmad (Eckankar's
          word for God). We were taught that God is way beyond any need for
          anyone to worship it. And on the surface of things, we were taught
          that we shouldn't worship the Eck master. So I repeat my original
          question "Why is there a worship service in Eckankar?" It took me a
          long time to figure it out, and I think it must have bee during the
          last month of my time in Eckankar that I finally figured it out.
          Eckankar is trying to appear like Christianity. And for the shameful
          reason of appearing like Christianity so they can lure people in.

          In another post I mentioned that a few months before I left Eckankar
          somebody finally informed me that the Worship Service is for new
          people. That is simply more evidence that what I am saying about the
          Worship Service is true.

          B. HU, the most beautiful prayer
          "HU, the most beautiful prayer" is a new booklet that Harold Klemp
          wrote and was first distributed to the members of Eckankar in late
          November of 2008. Frankly, the lack of spiritual principles in this
          booklet is one of the most despicable things I have ever witnessed in
          Eckankar. I read part of this book. This is a brief summary of some
          of what Klemp said:

          "The right way to pray is to sing a song of love to God."
          "The wrong way to pray is to tell God what to do."

          He completely ignores the third choice which is to ask God for
          spiritual wisdom or guidance. Or the fourth choice which is to ask
          God to fix things or give you things.



          [P]- Correct! This just goes to show that
          anyone entering a book in the 2009
          Next Generation Indie Book Awards
          becomes a finalist! It's good PR and
          is a marketing ploy to sell more books.



          He tells the story of a girl named "Heidi" who learns that her
          relative in another place, a little boy, is in a coma. What she then
          did was to go on the inner and ask the little boy and his parents to
          join her in a HU on the inner planes. She then sang the HU while
          remaining neutral. The next day, she learned that the little boy came
          out of the coma. Supposedly, he asked the nurse "Are you Heidi?"



          P- Already, Heidi has violated the EK
          Law of Noninterference when she went
          into their "inner" dreams or consciousness!
          This was an intentional act where she was
          seeking a "positive" (White Magic) outcome.
          This is what the typical follower of God (KAL)
          would do. IMO, Sugmad would neither want
          or require her to do such an act of White Magic
          and then claim that she was "neutral." Having
          empathy is closer to Divine Love than being
          without feelings and being "neutral." Or, was
          it Klemp who put his two cents worth in and
          his words into her mouth to point out that
          Heidi was remaining "neutral?"

          It's obvious that there was a desired outcome,
          or else she never would have done what she
          did. Plus, what do we have really here? It's
          another minor miracle attributed to one
          religion being better than the others. And,
          it was pointed out that Eckankar is better
          by an innocent (pure) and truthful young child.

          However, every religion has stories like this
          and that's the rub for ECKists! These other
          religions worship a 2nd or 4th Plane God who
          is referred to in Eckankar as Kal (i.e. Satan,
          Devil). Just read Klemp's Autobiography page
          385 and look in the index of the combined
          Shariyats for Satan and Devil and you will
          see these names refer to the KAL (God).

          BTW- I wrote this before reading what was
          mentioned below. Apparently we both see
          the same problems with Klemp's stories
          and teachings.





          [J] When I first read this story I didn't immediately see much of a
          problem with it. But later I started to have second thoughts about
          this whole procedure that Heidi did. I disagree with it for the
          reason that it seems to be a very subtle way to intentionally control
          the outcome of a situation. That's not prayer, that's black magic.
          And the fact that little children in Eckankar are being taught this
          technique is disturbing indeed.

          The problem has mostly to do with one question: "Did she in fact
          remain neutral or did she want a particular outcome to take place?"
          My contention is that she wanted a particular outcome to take place.
          That means that she was, in fact, influencing the outcome of a
          situation regarding someone else without their prior permission. That
          is expressly forbidden in Eckankar and is actively called black magic
          by Eckankar.

          But it seems that Eckankar has found a way around this. And for two
          reasons:

          1. So Eckankar can call the HU a prayer and therefore make Eckankar
          more acceptable to Christians, and

          2. So Eckankar can teach its chelas a way to influence others, all
          the while convincing them that they are not doing that.

          In the case of Heidi, a truly spiritual person would have simply
          said "Thine will be done" and then given it to Holy Spirit. She would
          have been much better off simply giving it to Spirit rather than
          wandering into this situation with her HU chant.


          [P]- I agree! "May Thy Will Be Done" is the neutral
          approach. After all, when one uses the HU it was
          supposed to be without direction/purpose. Meeting
          someone on the "Inner" and directing them to HU
          is giving purpose and is controlling the outcome
          which can produce karma. This is all Lower Plane
          stuff. Now, Klemp is calling the HU a "Prayer" and
          the definition of prayer is anything but "neutral."
          Thus, when the young girl was teaching the HU
          Prayer, on the inner, to these people it was so that
          they could also request a desired outcome. What's
          funny is that Eckists don't realize that it's KAL that
          they are praying (HUing) to!




          [J]-This new procedure that Harold Klemp has invented is using
          the HU to achieve a desired outcome while at the same time you
          are pretending that you are not doing that. Despite the individuals
          best intentions, I feel that most people will have a desired outcome
          even if it is only at the subconscious level. But please remember that
          the subconscious mind energy is more powerful and the conscious
          mind energy so we are really playing with fire here.

          Do you really think that I believe that she didn't want a particular
          outcome? Clearly, she wanted the boy to wake up, or she wouldn't
          have even become involved in the process of using the HU in this
          new manner in the first place. The fact that she got involved in this
          procedure was because she wanted the boy to wake up.

          And if you want more proof, would Harold Klemp have told the
          story about Heidi if the boy had died? The more than obvious answer
          is "No."

          So there is an unspoken message here for all members of Eckankar.
          You are now allowed to use the HU to influence others. What's next?
          Expect the following to come to an Eckankar Center near you. Ten
          Eckists arrive and they all are concerned about say a war in a
          particular country. People are being killed; it's terrible. So they
          decide to, as a group, chant/sing the HU. But beforehand, they all
          invite all of the participants in the war to sing the HU with them on
          the inner. Anybody but me see a problem with this?



          [P]- I always thought it rather strange that
          Klemp wouldn't allow EK Centers to conduct
          simultaneous HU Chants that would correspond
          to the Sunday Morning HU Chant/Song conducted
          at ECK Seminars. The word back from the ESC
          was that this "directed" the HU. Of course it didn't,
          direct it anymore than directing people to show
          up in a big hall at 8:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning.
          But, you can't argue with city hall (or the ESC)
          as the saying goes! Now, it would seem that
          anything goes, but don't hold your breath. HK
          will do it his way and will flip-flop on the issue.
          He's the EK puppet master!




          [J]- Lastly. A "nondirected prayer?" The whole purpose of prayer is for it
          to be directed. It is an active procedure, not a passive procedure.
          This whole new concept of Harold Klemps is just spin-doctoring the HU
          chant/sing in Eckankar into a new and very disturbing procedure.

          Medical doctors don't treat their own family members due to concerns
          that they will be biased when making decisions. In other words, the
          fact that they are treating someone that they care deeply about could
          adversely affect the objectivity of their decisions. But in the case
          of Eckankar and "HU, The Most Beautiful Prayer," they are going to
          trust little kids to be able to overcome that situation.

          Eckankar's new policy seems to be "Acquiring new members no matter
          what the cost to the original principals of Eckankar."

          And once again, Eckankar is borrowing a concept from Indian
          religions/culture. "Bhajan (BUDGE-in) is a Sanskrit word for a Hindu
          devotional song. The purpose of the song is to praise God (Ik
          onkaar), or honor God(Ik onkaar). On Jan 7, 2009, I spoke with a
          Hindu from North India. I specifically asked her "Is it considered to
          be a prayer too?" She said "Yes." But after talking to her, it was
          clear to me that the Hindu singing the bhajan or listening to the
          bhajan focuses on the words in the song; they are not having separate
          thoughts of their own. Basically, the words are saying things
          like "God, you are great."

          Prometheus, I know that you commented on this "HU, The Most Beautiful
          Prayer," but I wrote 95% of what I have here back at the very
          beginning of December, 2008, about two weeks before I left Eckankar.
          I don't think that you read any of the book, so I think you might be
          very interested in this story about Heidi.
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